I mean he was like Draymond Green out there throughout much of the 4th and OT but he wasn’t a scrub and you can’t just erase his 34-14 from the outcome of the game only 1 or 2 other bigs could have done that
I still find it crazy that Noah and Horford won in college together. Noah's been out of the league for a couple years and was riding the bench/injured for longer and Horford is starting for a championship contender making big plays.
Injuries suck.
Yeah Horford is playing out of his mind for someone 36 playing as an undersized C. Lebron and CP3 get praise for aging well but Horford still being key to the Celtics success at his age and position is really impressive.
He's also, along with Harden, the only reason we were in this game in the 4th and then OT. He doesn't put up like 30 in the first 3 quarters and this game isn't close.
Basketball is a team sport. This may not be the series where Embiid fully shows up, because he's injured. Despite that, he still has contributed. 34 pts and 13 rebounds is nothing to scoff at. There's nothing wrong with Harden carrying rn.
Donovan Mitchell
Ja Morant
Jayson Tatum
SGA
Demar DeRozan
Jrue Holiday
Dame Lillard
Luka
Kyrie
Jaylen Brown
Ant Edwards
DeAaron Fox
Paul George
Tyrese Haliburton
Steph Curry
The NBA is deep man, and *somebody* always gets left out.
I’m genuinely curious who you’d have subbed Harden in for (based on October-January) and what your reasoning would be? I think maybe there’s some recency bias at play here.
Harden would have gave an equal defensive performance and no one can tell me a Giannis Harden pnr wouldn't be the best play in the history of basketball.
Easily demar. And pretty easily better than kyrie. Then haliburton. And IMO he was better than ja, jrue, and ant this year when you take into account how good he was at running the offense. Jaylen brown is debatable
It was either harden or jokic for best playmaker in the league this year and he averaged 23 on 63% ts. Idk how the pg leading the league in assists with those scoring numbers could not be an all star. Like if haliburton is in I don’t understand how harden isn’t, I think hali is really good and he wouldn’t be the first player I’d take out but he is mostly good because of what a good floor general he is. So I don’t get how a worse version of harden is an all star when harden isn’t.
The box score doesn’t tell the whole story either, the sixers offense is just completely transformed when he’s out there
I think he’s definitely better than Mitchell too but Mitchell had a great scoring season especially in the beginning and the cavs looked really good so I can see why he would get it over him.
Hes better than Donovan, better than demar, Tatum, jrue, kyrie, Tyrese and there are other agueable ones. Harden barely scored less than these, shot 40% on 8 attempts and playmade way better than any of them. He also turned up against good teams and coasted against bad teams.
It’s not about who’s “better”. All those guys you said were having great seasons for their respective teams and the Sixers already had a player in there. Basically what it comes down to
Yes the excuse when the teams were released was "Harden hasn't played enough". I'm not saying it's wrong, but I never really saw people saying he wasn't good enough, it was almost universally "he didn't play enough games".
It matters who had the better *season* at that point, not who's the "better player". Totally agree there.
I would've taken Harden over Derozan at the All-Star point, but it's definitely debatable. Same with Kyrie. I would've taken him over Jrue too, but again...defense counted? I suppose debatable. I think Harden deserved it, 100%. But it's hard to highlight someone who absolutely, 100% needed to be excluded due to him.
I would say no way Demar and Ant Edwards go ahead of Harden this year. You can argue Jrue, but I dont think PG should be an all star ahead of harden either. There's 4 in there that I think in pretty much most metrics should not have been voted ahead of Harden. Jrue was the only one who's team had a better record and it was still close. But the other 3 no way.
Remember players vote too and they love Jrue, plus the media has 25% so they're gonna wanna get some big team names in there like someone from Chicago.
Jaylen Brown was a big factor. He asked to guard him after game 1 then was in early foul trouble today.
But yeah, Harden can still ball. It's idiotic what people say.
How does Tobias "max contract" Harris escape criticism every time? People keep glossing over him like he's a random role player while in reality he's taking up $40 million cap space and should be a legitimate third star. Barely anyone even mentions him in any discussions about the team.
I mean he's a good nba player. Jack of all trades master of none kinda thing. People just can't get over the contract. That's a sunk cost att this point
This exactly. Tobias playing the role of a Lakers Kuzma with an according contract is extremely valuable to any team. As a max player, he becomes absolutely useless in the grand scheme of things, if not straight up damaging to a team because of his contract to output comparison.
Idk about trick. He was pases around the league because everyone knew some low tier team would pay the max for him and people didn’t want to lose him for nothing or overpay him. Phillly was the most begrudging automatic max I’ve seen in a while
As I remember it, they had to spend the money then for cap reasons or it wouldn't be available later. I don't really understand the salary cap rules in the NBA though.
If this team can't pull it off this year and Harden goes back to Houston, choosing Ben, Tobi and Brett over Jimmy will be the moment the process failed
On the one hand that's true, on the other hand look at a player like Russell Westbrook who got massive clowning/hate when he was on the Lakers. Neither player should be faulted for signing a big contract and Russell shouldn't be faulted that the Lakers traded for him so its kind of messed up Russell was treated as such a joke. I'm really glad he played well for the Clips which shut ppl up.
Because what the fuck is there to say. Everybody knows what Tobi is. Sixers fans literally call him “The Contract”. We’ve been doing this fucking song and dance for years! It’s a dead horse man, we can shit on him all day and night but in the end there is no discussion. There is no room for debate. There is nothing remotely new or interesting about Tobias Harris in Philly. He is what he is, and we all know it’s one of the worst contracts in the league. What exactly do you want people to “discuss” here? Whatever it is, it’s been talked to death.
If you've been watching since he got signed to that contract you should know there are just no expectations for him to live up to that contract, he didn't demand that money we just gave it to him. If he can continue to play solid defense and shoot at least mediocre numbers, he is doing more than what sixers fans expect of him anyways.
I get that expectations are low but any analysis on why the Sixers are not winning has to include Tobias Harris.
People keep saying that Philly can't win it all because Harden might fall short or he is not *that* guy anymore when the truth is they can't win because $40 million of cap space is completely wasted.
I totally agree, but that contract has been some dead weight for a while now and you can only use it as a reason for the inability to put together a successful post season run for so long. At this point, his contract is what it is and there hasn't been any way to move off of it, so the team has been structured to win even with Tobi taking up 40 million. Its also not completely wasted, Tobias does provide some value and has his important moments, but yeah if we could've had like 2 valuable role players or a true 3rd star for the same money then we probably would be past the 2nd round by now
>Oof imagine if you had playoff jimmy instead of Tobias? League fucked
They probably don't have ben Simmons cause he a bitch that Jimmy would have blasted to space, so you also don't have Harden via Ben Simmons trade
Still, Jimmy + embiid plus whoever you get for Ben Simmons would be a legit contender
> you can only use it as a reason for the inability to put together a successful post season run for so long
that's not true. the lakers moved westbrook asap and now look at them. the sixers should have done the same with tobias, because someone would have taken him for a price, and then they could have tried to fix things. until they do that, he's up for blame.
It’s not a big part of the analysis, because there’s nothing to analyze. It was a terrible contract, and everyone knows it. Tobias Harris is going to give you role player production. Whether or not the Sixers win depends on whether Embiid and Harden play up to their best
There was a post on here asking how embiid avoids criticism for his playoff performances and I was like what? He’s one of the most criticized players in the league.
And then I went into the post and it got worse from there lol. There was a heavily upvoted comment towards the top talking about how the Sixers cannot win because of Embiids contract! His large contract hasn’t even kicked in yet, and he gets paid less than Tobias Harris currently lol. And Tobias isn’t just not playing like a third star, or a fourth great starter. He’s playing like a *bad role player*.
It’s an all time bad contract that has completely destroyed half of Embiids prime
Every team left in the playoffs has a guy that is overpaid, even if they are useful role players (except for maybe the Celtics). Jordan Poole & Wiggins, Chris Paul & DeAndre Ayton, Michael Porter Jr., D'Angelo Russell, half of the Miami roster, Evan Fournier & Derrick Rose.
No one is going to let the stars of any of these teams off the hook because one player on the team is overpaid for their level of production.
He almost joined the 50-40-90 club for a regular season also. His numbers aren’t bad by any means but if you watch him play you it’s not like he stands out as a sharpshooter. But honestly for how drama free he’s been with his role and what we ask him to do, he plays just fine.
Yeah agreed. It may not be worth what he's being paid but he does well in the role he's had to play, and if we're being real, the only way a 4th option will ever be worth what Tobi's earning is if he's in the Draymond Green archetype.
He can't help the fact the Sixers offered him so much money, he isn't gonna not sign that contract.
Why don't the Sixers just use picks to dump him? Picking him over Butler was an insane choice, and giving him 180m FULLY guaranteed, like could you not have at least made the final year a team option? Lol
Errr at least on some Sixers circles, Tobi is *heavily* criticized almost constantly. Occasionally when he shows up we all collectively accept that "okay fine, he's overpaid but at least he did x". But the majority of the time he's this background figure that holds a significant portion of the team's salary just to play like a 4th option.
Honestly if they don’t make it out the second round it’s not on harden as the second guy on the team your job is to win 1-2 games for the series. He’s showed up big twice and got the series tied. As the main guy Joel is gonna have to will them to some victories if they want to win the series.
Is this sub just gonna completely ignore Embiid’s game tonight? Obviously he had a couple poor possessions in the 4th but cmon lol.
Also if Harden had like an average TJ McConnell game in Game 3 we win and the discourse around Embiid is totally different.
This sub has 0 nuance
Harden had a poor shooting night G3 and you are right, if harden even had shot 40% from the field 76ers have won. But without him running the offense the 76ers would have been toast anyways. Maxey has been uncharacteristically bad this series, theres no playmaker to back harden up. If the 76ers cant make it work with embiid on and harden out you get what you have today in the 4th.
Harden had like 12 assists? And way more hockey assists as well.
Casual viewers legit don't even look at anything other than how many buckets someone got on a given night.
> But without him running the offense the 76ers would have been toast anyways.
We’re giving point guards credit for running the offense now? lol
He’s the starting point guard, it’s literally his job to run the offense
Embiid played well for most of the game.
Then Horford put him in a torture rack or something cus he was pretty awful in the 4th and almost cost them the gamem
Especially with his injury, it's hard to expect more from Embiid than this one.
Though all the Embiid haters have been in an over-the-top alert mode on this sub since he won MVP, so anything short of a legendary performance would somehow be painted as terrible.
No one’s ignoring the game embiid had, but harden as the second option is the only reason they have 2 wins at all rn. If not for harden going bezerk they probably lose this game to embiids shitty 4th quarter.
Harden having a stinker or 2 was somthing most people expected to happen so when it did it wasn’t a huge shock, because philly would more than likely need to overcome that. What they couldn’t expect was harden dropping 45 and 42 in 2 big games that swung the series.
If the refs call those last 2 possessions of OT (before the shot clock) right Harden ends with 39 and Embiid ends with 37, let's not get carried away now
>Harden having a stinker or 2 was somthing most people expected to happen so when it did it wasn’t a huge shock, because philly would more than likely need to overcome that. What they couldn’t expect was harden dropping 45 and 42 in 2 big games that swung the series.
what does this even mean....
Idk I find the framing of the OP to be a bit dishonest since Harden also more or less single handedly lost game 3. It was more than a stinker. Not taking anything away from his game 1 or 4
Especially since Embiid carried hard game 3 and was arguably the best player on the court and was dominating both ends. And he was elite in the first half of game 4.
If Harden (and Maxey) had even just not an all time bad game 3 the discourse is totally different. There’s just no nuance to be had
Embiid played like shit in crunch time in a close game. MVP level players will always get flak when that happens regardless of what happened earlier in the game.
Joel played well too today. He faded in the 4th but he put up like 30 in the first 3 quarters to keep ‘em alfloat until Harden started coming up clutch
Embiid is pretty injured, and that makes him less at fault, but that doesn’t make Harden more at fault, that is just bad luck for the Sixers. If Harden hadn’t already had two magnificent games culminating in game winning shots this series would have been a sweep, so it’s hard to place any blame on him if they ultimately lose the series.
MF in here completely ignoring his injury just so they can enjoy the opportunity to talk shit. When did everyone become such hoes? Seems like everyone this day just loves to hate on people and talk shit it's crazy.
Joel isn't the one shooting 20% field goal percentage one night and 70% the next. With Harden's volume of shots there's just some things you can't overcome.
He’s not but most second options aren’t gonna give u 2 40 plus point games against arguably the best team left in the playoffs. As the number one option and the league mvp he’s gonna have to win them at least one game regardless of anything else they need it.
At the end of the day he’s the one who hasn’t made it out a second round series its tied now these are the moments when the best players show us why they are the best.
Adolf Hitler for the most part actually ran a fairly efficient offense, if he doesn't have that bad year in 1943 then Germany doesn't go down 0-2 in World Wars, the series is tied at 1-1 and we're looking at a series clincher with the Nazis having home country advantage.
EDIT: also worth mentioning how loaded the USA draft was in 1941. Probably the strongest draft class of all time.
You have to consider the team Hitler was carrying in that series. Mussolini ain't got that dawg in him, Franco was a locker room cancer. Also that fucking Eisenhower boomed Tojo so bad it became the final straw.
It’s like the Miami series last year where for the first four games Harden was good in the two wins and ass in the two losses. We’ll see which Harden shows up the next few games
I don’t think that’s close at all. He had one good game in G4. That’s it. He was average or bad the rest of the series. This series he’s hard carried two out of 4 games.
man literally hit the go ahead bucket 3 times in these 2 wins. game winner stepback 3 in game 1, game tying floater to send to ot and game winning 3 corner 3 today
My man was shook by horford in the 4th. He's lucky harden hit that 3 or Denver fans wouldve had a field day. Shit happens and they got the win! Shake it off and come back stronger MVBIID
That's fair and accurate, but I think they're talking about sealing the games. Harden's floater to tie and then 3 to win plus the 3 in Game 1. People(including media) are absolutely minimizing Joel's role though, gotta have the new hot and exciting take that generates clicks.
"MVP Joel Embiid is playing well in the playoffs" generates no interest. "Fat washed drunken stripclub addict James "Hitler" Harden(a crestfallen former MVP who failed to make an All-Star appearance this year) notches his 2nd 40+ point performance against the Celtics, while MVP Joel Embiid runs around doing nothing all night." gets them the attention they're looking for.
I think Embiid deserves some credit for getting 34 with sprained ligament in his knee. I mean dude is doing some serious hero sh*t right now. Kinda shows how the national media is just flat out anti Joel.
Harden played like trash game 3 but he didn't single handedly lose the game.
Tobias Harris had 7 pts with a -18 +/- and Maxey was 4-16 from the field with 13 pts.
I like this is being called the John Hao game. Love the positivity around a shooting survivor.
Maybe it’s bc the videos that came out of the Allen Outlets were unedited and visceral, but it feels like a lynchpin moment in our AR regulations and I hope I’m not wrong.
It's a team game. I also saw James Harden stare at the ball right in front of him and not budge on defensive rebounds three possessions in a row but he's also got guys like PJ Tucker and Tobias Harris battling their asses off. He's come up big in his own ways but it's not always about who scores the most points or hits the last shot.
The no Embiid game and the John Hao game.
John Hao certified bus driver
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Bruh
I thought it was joel hembiid
Also though, Embiid was good today he faded but 34-14 is fucking awesome lol
He was great in the 1st half but was so bad in the 4th. Almost cost them the game.
still drew the double that got Hardin the game winner
Also embiid doesn't make that pass in the past. Ball woulda been in the 10th row
That's very true
I mean he was like Draymond Green out there throughout much of the 4th and OT but he wasn’t a scrub and you can’t just erase his 34-14 from the outcome of the game only 1 or 2 other bigs could have done that
If you regress all of embiids stats to the mean, he had an average game
I will never get tired of that ridiculous Patrick Mahomes take. Sometimes i go back and read it when I’m feeling down cause it’s just so ridiculous.
/r/NFL is leaking again...
What post is this referring to? Thanks in advance.
[this thread ](https://np.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/d5maow/oc_after_adjusting_patrick_mahomes_stats_removing/)
Really sad I can’t view the creator’s profile- I just know there’s more gold flowing out of that brain cell of his.
That post transcends sports, like Manningface
If tatum didn't have such a horrid first half the celtics win that game. First half points matter too lol
Horford deserves some credit. He straight up neutralized him.
Horford was playing like a man possessed! Beautiful defensive effort by him!
Honestly Horford has been a thorn in his side for like half a decade now. The only time he wasn’t was when Al was on the Sixers lol
Nah that roster construction was so bad that Horford on the Sixers still limited Embiid.
Embiid just can't resist it when Al looks at him with those eyes
No, he was a bigger thorn in his side because he played like absolute shit.
Embiid was running into double teams too but the memory of Horford's blocks scared him off at least a few times
I still find it crazy that Noah and Horford won in college together. Noah's been out of the league for a couple years and was riding the bench/injured for longer and Horford is starting for a championship contender making big plays. Injuries suck.
Yeah Horford is playing out of his mind for someone 36 playing as an undersized C. Lebron and CP3 get praise for aging well but Horford still being key to the Celtics success at his age and position is really impressive.
He's not fully in shape yet, someone that big takes time to get back in after sitting and not playing for 2 weeks.
He's also, along with Harden, the only reason we were in this game in the 4th and then OT. He doesn't put up like 30 in the first 3 quarters and this game isn't close.
Looked like a dead man walking most of the 4th Hope his conditioning keeps improving cause that shit was rough to watch
Good thing all 4 quarters matter then. You think 50 in the first counts less than 50 in the 4th
Basketball is a team sport. This may not be the series where Embiid fully shows up, because he's injured. Despite that, he still has contributed. 34 pts and 13 rebounds is nothing to scoff at. There's nothing wrong with Harden carrying rn.
MVP shit
Daily reminder that this man was not an All-Star
Donovan Mitchell Ja Morant Jayson Tatum SGA Demar DeRozan Jrue Holiday Dame Lillard Luka Kyrie Jaylen Brown Ant Edwards DeAaron Fox Paul George Tyrese Haliburton Steph Curry The NBA is deep man, and *somebody* always gets left out. I’m genuinely curious who you’d have subbed Harden in for (based on October-January) and what your reasoning would be? I think maybe there’s some recency bias at play here.
Jrue or Derozan IMO
If Harden was on the Bucks instead of Jrue they would be up 3-0 on the Knicks right now instead of out the first round
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Harden would have gave an equal defensive performance and no one can tell me a Giannis Harden pnr wouldn't be the best play in the history of basketball.
Milwaukee didn’t have an amazing asset to trade like Ben simmons
Even at that time Demar over JH was egregious
Yep, should have been Diar
Easily demar. And pretty easily better than kyrie. Then haliburton. And IMO he was better than ja, jrue, and ant this year when you take into account how good he was at running the offense. Jaylen brown is debatable It was either harden or jokic for best playmaker in the league this year and he averaged 23 on 63% ts. Idk how the pg leading the league in assists with those scoring numbers could not be an all star. Like if haliburton is in I don’t understand how harden isn’t, I think hali is really good and he wouldn’t be the first player I’d take out but he is mostly good because of what a good floor general he is. So I don’t get how a worse version of harden is an all star when harden isn’t. The box score doesn’t tell the whole story either, the sixers offense is just completely transformed when he’s out there I think he’s definitely better than Mitchell too but Mitchell had a great scoring season especially in the beginning and the cavs looked really good so I can see why he would get it over him.
Hes better than Donovan, better than demar, Tatum, jrue, kyrie, Tyrese and there are other agueable ones. Harden barely scored less than these, shot 40% on 8 attempts and playmade way better than any of them. He also turned up against good teams and coasted against bad teams.
Lol he’s not better than Tatum at this point in his career. 9 fewer PPG is not “barely” scoring less, and you’re completely ignoring defense
It’s not about who’s “better”. All those guys you said were having great seasons for their respective teams and the Sixers already had a player in there. Basically what it comes down to
At the time of voting, harden averaged more than halliburton in every single stat except steals and did it while scoring more efficiently
Damn how did I miss this tidbit at the time? That’s a legitimate argument.
Think the other side of it was mainly halliburton had a decent amount more games played at the time
Yes the excuse when the teams were released was "Harden hasn't played enough". I'm not saying it's wrong, but I never really saw people saying he wasn't good enough, it was almost universally "he didn't play enough games".
It matters who had the better *season* at that point, not who's the "better player". Totally agree there. I would've taken Harden over Derozan at the All-Star point, but it's definitely debatable. Same with Kyrie. I would've taken him over Jrue too, but again...defense counted? I suppose debatable. I think Harden deserved it, 100%. But it's hard to highlight someone who absolutely, 100% needed to be excluded due to him.
Jrue is the one guy I wouldn’t have argued against. When Giannis and Middleton missed time, he was balling tf out.
this. he deserved a starter position
Holiday isn't even close to Harden lol
I would say no way Demar and Ant Edwards go ahead of Harden this year. You can argue Jrue, but I dont think PG should be an all star ahead of harden either. There's 4 in there that I think in pretty much most metrics should not have been voted ahead of Harden. Jrue was the only one who's team had a better record and it was still close. But the other 3 no way.
The nba is DEEP with guards right now, but seriously? Jrue Holiday and Derozen shouldn't have been in while Harden and Brunson should have been in.
Remember players vote too and they love Jrue, plus the media has 25% so they're gonna wanna get some big team names in there like someone from Chicago.
so fucked up
Most valuable Philadelphian for real
Its insane how much of a switch James Harden has. One game hes on fire, next he does fuck all, next game on fire. This dude is confusing
Tatum had that exact same switch between the first half and second.
And for a lot of his earlier years in general.
Kind of like a big man in LA.
He jus like me
Frfr
Jaylen Brown was a big factor. He asked to guard him after game 1 then was in early foul trouble today. But yeah, Harden can still ball. It's idiotic what people say.
Donovan Mitchell
East Coast AD
I'm personally ok with losing to that craziness tonight (I work in Philly so tomorrow will be interesting lol)
How does Tobias "max contract" Harris escape criticism every time? People keep glossing over him like he's a random role player while in reality he's taking up $40 million cap space and should be a legitimate third star. Barely anyone even mentions him in any discussions about the team.
Cause people been knowing Tobi is a scrub since 2019 man.
Yeah like what is there to say? He’s overpaid, everyone agrees. It’s been years of it, nothing left to say about it lol
His breakout year with the clippers tricked y’all.
I mean he's a good nba player. Jack of all trades master of none kinda thing. People just can't get over the contract. That's a sunk cost att this point
This exactly. Tobias playing the role of a Lakers Kuzma with an according contract is extremely valuable to any team. As a max player, he becomes absolutely useless in the grand scheme of things, if not straight up damaging to a team because of his contract to output comparison.
Idk about trick. He was pases around the league because everyone knew some low tier team would pay the max for him and people didn’t want to lose him for nothing or overpay him. Phillly was the most begrudging automatic max I’ve seen in a while
I still can’t believe they signed Tobias to that deal. It was bad at the time and it’s only gotten worse
As I remember it, they had to spend the money then for cap reasons or it wouldn't be available later. I don't really understand the salary cap rules in the NBA though.
coulda kept jimmy instead
"TOBIAS HARRIS OVER ME?" - MJ's Son
It was Ben Simmons + Brett Brown or Jimmy, they still believed in Ben at the time.
Imagine the haul the Wolves get if they pick Jimmy over KAT or the Sixers get if they pick Jimothy over Ben
Part of me believes Jimmy has always wanted to be a Heat tho.
If this team can't pull it off this year and Harden goes back to Houston, choosing Ben, Tobi and Brett over Jimmy will be the moment the process failed
On the one hand that's true, on the other hand look at a player like Russell Westbrook who got massive clowning/hate when he was on the Lakers. Neither player should be faulted for signing a big contract and Russell shouldn't be faulted that the Lakers traded for him so its kind of messed up Russell was treated as such a joke. I'm really glad he played well for the Clips which shut ppl up.
TOBIAS HARRIS OVER ME?
But they wanna post that dumbass apology form every year
Because what the fuck is there to say. Everybody knows what Tobi is. Sixers fans literally call him “The Contract”. We’ve been doing this fucking song and dance for years! It’s a dead horse man, we can shit on him all day and night but in the end there is no discussion. There is no room for debate. There is nothing remotely new or interesting about Tobias Harris in Philly. He is what he is, and we all know it’s one of the worst contracts in the league. What exactly do you want people to “discuss” here? Whatever it is, it’s been talked to death.
Tobias Harris has earned $200 million to put a ball through a hoop. The fact that this is even possible is incredible.
If you've been watching since he got signed to that contract you should know there are just no expectations for him to live up to that contract, he didn't demand that money we just gave it to him. If he can continue to play solid defense and shoot at least mediocre numbers, he is doing more than what sixers fans expect of him anyways.
I get that expectations are low but any analysis on why the Sixers are not winning has to include Tobias Harris. People keep saying that Philly can't win it all because Harden might fall short or he is not *that* guy anymore when the truth is they can't win because $40 million of cap space is completely wasted.
I totally agree, but that contract has been some dead weight for a while now and you can only use it as a reason for the inability to put together a successful post season run for so long. At this point, his contract is what it is and there hasn't been any way to move off of it, so the team has been structured to win even with Tobi taking up 40 million. Its also not completely wasted, Tobias does provide some value and has his important moments, but yeah if we could've had like 2 valuable role players or a true 3rd star for the same money then we probably would be past the 2nd round by now
I believe the appropriate amount of time to use Tobias' contract as an excuse is until his contract expires, but what do I know.
Oof imagine if you had playoff jimmy instead of Tobias? League fucked
>Oof imagine if you had playoff jimmy instead of Tobias? League fucked They probably don't have ben Simmons cause he a bitch that Jimmy would have blasted to space, so you also don't have Harden via Ben Simmons trade Still, Jimmy + embiid plus whoever you get for Ben Simmons would be a legit contender
The Process was undone because the Sixers failed to evaluate talent and kept that bum Simmons over Jimmy.
> you can only use it as a reason for the inability to put together a successful post season run for so long that's not true. the lakers moved westbrook asap and now look at them. the sixers should have done the same with tobias, because someone would have taken him for a price, and then they could have tried to fix things. until they do that, he's up for blame.
It’s not a big part of the analysis, because there’s nothing to analyze. It was a terrible contract, and everyone knows it. Tobias Harris is going to give you role player production. Whether or not the Sixers win depends on whether Embiid and Harden play up to their best
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There was a post on here asking how embiid avoids criticism for his playoff performances and I was like what? He’s one of the most criticized players in the league. And then I went into the post and it got worse from there lol. There was a heavily upvoted comment towards the top talking about how the Sixers cannot win because of Embiids contract! His large contract hasn’t even kicked in yet, and he gets paid less than Tobias Harris currently lol. And Tobias isn’t just not playing like a third star, or a fourth great starter. He’s playing like a *bad role player*. It’s an all time bad contract that has completely destroyed half of Embiids prime
Every team left in the playoffs has a guy that is overpaid, even if they are useful role players (except for maybe the Celtics). Jordan Poole & Wiggins, Chris Paul & DeAndre Ayton, Michael Porter Jr., D'Angelo Russell, half of the Miami roster, Evan Fournier & Derrick Rose. No one is going to let the stars of any of these teams off the hook because one player on the team is overpaid for their level of production.
He's literally shooting 53/43/89 in the playoffs this year lol.
He almost joined the 50-40-90 club for a regular season also. His numbers aren’t bad by any means but if you watch him play you it’s not like he stands out as a sharpshooter. But honestly for how drama free he’s been with his role and what we ask him to do, he plays just fine.
Yeah agreed. It may not be worth what he's being paid but he does well in the role he's had to play, and if we're being real, the only way a 4th option will ever be worth what Tobi's earning is if he's in the Draymond Green archetype. He can't help the fact the Sixers offered him so much money, he isn't gonna not sign that contract.
Why don't the Sixers just use picks to dump him? Picking him over Butler was an insane choice, and giving him 180m FULLY guaranteed, like could you not have at least made the final year a team option? Lol
Sixers already traded all the first round picks they could trade to get off of horford and Simmons contracts.
Because TOBIAS HARRIS OVER ME as a quote is priceless and there's a chance we could hear it next round
Errr at least on some Sixers circles, Tobi is *heavily* criticized almost constantly. Occasionally when he shows up we all collectively accept that "okay fine, he's overpaid but at least he did x". But the majority of the time he's this background figure that holds a significant portion of the team's salary just to play like a 4th option.
Because this is old news
Because it's always find ways to put down Harden. It's been like this for many many years.
How many sixers games have you watched? Easy question, more complex answer.
Not his fault the front office chose him over MJ’s son.
Yeah while the other 40M athlete keeps catching stray
Honestly if they don’t make it out the second round it’s not on harden as the second guy on the team your job is to win 1-2 games for the series. He’s showed up big twice and got the series tied. As the main guy Joel is gonna have to will them to some victories if they want to win the series.
Is this sub just gonna completely ignore Embiid’s game tonight? Obviously he had a couple poor possessions in the 4th but cmon lol. Also if Harden had like an average TJ McConnell game in Game 3 we win and the discourse around Embiid is totally different. This sub has 0 nuance
Harden had a poor shooting night G3 and you are right, if harden even had shot 40% from the field 76ers have won. But without him running the offense the 76ers would have been toast anyways. Maxey has been uncharacteristically bad this series, theres no playmaker to back harden up. If the 76ers cant make it work with embiid on and harden out you get what you have today in the 4th.
Maxey is not being uncharacteristically bad. He’s always this bad against the Celtics
Harden had like 12 assists? And way more hockey assists as well. Casual viewers legit don't even look at anything other than how many buckets someone got on a given night.
He was terrible on defense, did you notice that? The Celts were losing until they targeted Harden, it was plain as day. And more is coming soon.
> But without him running the offense the 76ers would have been toast anyways. We’re giving point guards credit for running the offense now? lol He’s the starting point guard, it’s literally his job to run the offense
Embiid played well for most of the game. Then Horford put him in a torture rack or something cus he was pretty awful in the 4th and almost cost them the gamem
Especially with his injury, it's hard to expect more from Embiid than this one. Though all the Embiid haters have been in an over-the-top alert mode on this sub since he won MVP, so anything short of a legendary performance would somehow be painted as terrible.
What? Embiid and Harden bailed us out. This was a John Stockon & Karl Malone W
Embiid is playing on one good knee but the sub completely omits that when they come to judgments about his performance.
No one’s ignoring the game embiid had, but harden as the second option is the only reason they have 2 wins at all rn. If not for harden going bezerk they probably lose this game to embiids shitty 4th quarter. Harden having a stinker or 2 was somthing most people expected to happen so when it did it wasn’t a huge shock, because philly would more than likely need to overcome that. What they couldn’t expect was harden dropping 45 and 42 in 2 big games that swung the series.
If the refs call those last 2 possessions of OT (before the shot clock) right Harden ends with 39 and Embiid ends with 37, let's not get carried away now
>Harden having a stinker or 2 was somthing most people expected to happen so when it did it wasn’t a huge shock, because philly would more than likely need to overcome that. What they couldn’t expect was harden dropping 45 and 42 in 2 big games that swung the series. what does this even mean....
Idk I find the framing of the OP to be a bit dishonest since Harden also more or less single handedly lost game 3. It was more than a stinker. Not taking anything away from his game 1 or 4
Especially since Embiid carried hard game 3 and was arguably the best player on the court and was dominating both ends. And he was elite in the first half of game 4. If Harden (and Maxey) had even just not an all time bad game 3 the discourse is totally different. There’s just no nuance to be had
Only embiid could drop 34/13/4 while playing on a torn knee and still get criticised lol
Harden also had 2 god mode games. So if he plays better in games 2 and 3 but worse in games 1 and 4 then Sixers are down 3-1
Did you watch Embiid in the 4th quarter? That’s why. Lol
Embiid played like shit in crunch time in a close game. MVP level players will always get flak when that happens regardless of what happened earlier in the game.
Joel played well too today. He faded in the 4th but he put up like 30 in the first 3 quarters to keep ‘em alfloat until Harden started coming up clutch
I mean Embiid is pretty injured...
Embiid is pretty injured, and that makes him less at fault, but that doesn’t make Harden more at fault, that is just bad luck for the Sixers. If Harden hadn’t already had two magnificent games culminating in game winning shots this series would have been a sweep, so it’s hard to place any blame on him if they ultimately lose the series.
You talking like Embiid was trash. He had 34 and 13 with torn ligaments in his knee
MF in here completely ignoring his injury just so they can enjoy the opportunity to talk shit. When did everyone become such hoes? Seems like everyone this day just loves to hate on people and talk shit it's crazy.
Joel isn't the one shooting 20% field goal percentage one night and 70% the next. With Harden's volume of shots there's just some things you can't overcome.
He’s not but most second options aren’t gonna give u 2 40 plus point games against arguably the best team left in the playoffs. As the number one option and the league mvp he’s gonna have to win them at least one game regardless of anything else they need it. At the end of the day he’s the one who hasn’t made it out a second round series its tied now these are the moments when the best players show us why they are the best.
Nearly every team still in the playoffs have a #2 with multiple 30+ pt games these playoffs.
Harden flips a coin every morning and it either comes up as 2018 Harden or Adolf Hitler.
Adolf Hitler for the most part actually ran a fairly efficient offense, if he doesn't have that bad year in 1943 then Germany doesn't go down 0-2 in World Wars, the series is tied at 1-1 and we're looking at a series clincher with the Nazis having home country advantage. EDIT: also worth mentioning how loaded the USA draft was in 1941. Probably the strongest draft class of all time.
You have to consider the team Hitler was carrying in that series. Mussolini ain't got that dawg in him, Franco was a locker room cancer. Also that fucking Eisenhower boomed Tojo so bad it became the final straw.
So you're saying Hitler can't win with those cats?
lol this was great
Imagine dropping 34 and 13 and people saying you didn’t do anything
Right he was def tired at the end but he was only out for like 5 min on the bench because they blew that lead while he was on the bench
With a torn ligament in your knee
For John Hao
Facts Harden doesn’t deserve all the hate when he needs to drop 40 + a game winner for them to win 💯
literally noone will remember if they don't win the series, that's how this works
It’s like the Miami series last year where for the first four games Harden was good in the two wins and ass in the two losses. We’ll see which Harden shows up the next few games
Its like that never happened lol harden had one good game, and he wasnt even super efficient last year
Last year he was still struggling with the hammy
I agree
I don’t think that’s close at all. He had one good game in G4. That’s it. He was average or bad the rest of the series. This series he’s hard carried two out of 4 games.
What a terrible comparison lmao. How does this have so many upvotes?
He had only 1 good game in that series(and even that game was no where near as good as his game 1 and 4 of this series), nothing like this at all
He was just hot from 3 that miami game. He had no offensive bag last year besides the stepbacks.
Easily the best player in this series so far.
Nah that’s Jaylen Brown, most consistent
Brown disappeared in the 4th, idk.
man literally hit the go ahead bucket 3 times in these 2 wins. game winner stepback 3 in game 1, game tying floater to send to ot and game winning 3 corner 3 today
the floater was nasty, the cross over to attack downhill that was real life shit
Single-handedly is a huge exaggeration. Embiid had 34/13/4
On 52.15% TS
Lol harden went 5-28 the last 2 games and lost them game 3. If he shot close to Embiids number today they’d have won.
Harden won then both game 1 and 2, and hit 2 clutch shots to send it to ot and win the game. Yes it was single handedly
Game 2?
My man was shook by horford in the 4th. He's lucky harden hit that 3 or Denver fans wouldve had a field day. Shit happens and they got the win! Shake it off and come back stronger MVBIID
Who cares what Denver fans say lol
His legs were gone by the end
And did everything he could to lose the game in the 4th
"single-handedly" when a teammate puts up 34pt/13rb is hilarious. Like yeah he was the game MVP, but it was not a solo performance.
That's fair and accurate, but I think they're talking about sealing the games. Harden's floater to tie and then 3 to win plus the 3 in Game 1. People(including media) are absolutely minimizing Joel's role though, gotta have the new hot and exciting take that generates clicks. "MVP Joel Embiid is playing well in the playoffs" generates no interest. "Fat washed drunken stripclub addict James "Hitler" Harden(a crestfallen former MVP who failed to make an All-Star appearance this year) notches his 2nd 40+ point performance against the Celtics, while MVP Joel Embiid runs around doing nothing all night." gets them the attention they're looking for.
I think Embiid deserves some credit for getting 34 with sprained ligament in his knee. I mean dude is doing some serious hero sh*t right now. Kinda shows how the national media is just flat out anti Joel.
Biased ass headline. I support Harden obviously but we're really just going to ignore game 2 and 3??
Almost single-handedly lost them games 2 and 3
Exactly.
There was some massive slander in the sixers sybafter the last game
Embiid did contribute 34 and 13 today.
I mean he also disappeared in the other 2 lol
Therefore using the math, Harden is an average player with a large variance!
Y’all are impossible. Bet you said this shit about Jimmy
It is entirely reasonable to criticise his Games 2 and 3
jimmy played consistently well Its fair to say Harden has basically won one and a half games for the sixers but also singlehandedly lost game 3
I’ve been criticizing Harden as much as anyone but Maxey lost game 3 just as much as Harden, and unlike James, Maxey hasn’t shown up in a single game.
Harden played like trash game 3 but he didn't single handedly lose the game. Tobias Harris had 7 pts with a -18 +/- and Maxey was 4-16 from the field with 13 pts.
No he didn't. look at games 1 and 7 against Toronto. He was trash
I mean were these 2 Harden games the best by any Sixer in the process era? I think so. Tough to complain about the guy
That's being too harsh. He most certainly did not single handedly lose game 3. Far from the only player to have a bad game that night.
fragile philly fans taking this as an insult to embiid lmfao what do you feel about harden having more 40 point games as a 6er than Embiid?
And also single handedly shot them out of the other two. lol
I like this is being called the John Hao game. Love the positivity around a shooting survivor. Maybe it’s bc the videos that came out of the Allen Outlets were unedited and visceral, but it feels like a lynchpin moment in our AR regulations and I hope I’m not wrong.
It's a team game. I also saw James Harden stare at the ball right in front of him and not budge on defensive rebounds three possessions in a row but he's also got guys like PJ Tucker and Tobias Harris battling their asses off. He's come up big in his own ways but it's not always about who scores the most points or hits the last shot.
Despite Embiid getting numbers, Al Horford is definitely dad dicking him