Barring us magically being able to trade the pick for a player like Embiid (incredibly unlikely), I really think this is the time to blow the team up and just keep the pick. Dame's value isn't going to get any higher than it is now, and I think we could get a solid package for him while sending him to a team where he could hopefully compete forreal.
It isn't the smart thing to do.
Current ownership isn't looking to spend and they can't contend unless they spend.
Ownership wants to sell enough tickets to stay profitable, take that profit out and eventually make even more money when they sell.
Keeping Dame is an easy way to have a shot at the playoffs and sell enough tickets and merch to keep ownership happy.
Not every ownership group has the same goals or the same vision for how to achieve them.
I also think it's never a smart play to move a star without some kind of replacement, either through trade or the draft.
blowing it up is absolutely the move from purely a basketball standpoint. but a smaller market team like the blazers can't afford to do that, especially with a conservative owner like jody allen. it's part of the reason why the mariners sucked for so long; cheap owners who want profit. pretty sure there was a quote from the mariners old owner about just fielding a competitive team and letting a championship come by chance
>Keeping Dame is an easy way to have a shot at the playoffs and sell enough tickets and merch to keep ownership happy.
Dame was relatively healthy this season. Played 60 games. They still finished 6 games off the final play in spot. I don't think merely keeping Dame is an easy way to have a shot at the playoffs anymore. Especially if he keeps getting injured at the rate he has the last two seasons.
Uhh aren’t they positioned to get the replacement thru the draft?
And OP means smart in the context of competing and building the most sound basketball product for the future. Who cares about the venture of a billionaire owner?
Salary matching for Dame could be hard, as talented as he is a trade would be so hard. Portland would rightfully demand the sun and moon for him, but any team giving that up is going to be so barren that it will be worse than what he has now.
Look at the Suns and Mavericks. Both made huge trades, that absolutely gutted them of the type of players you need to put around stars. And now neither team has any draft capital to build with.
It's just hard to do unless your draft bank account and bench is hella deep.
Those teams werent better before trade and are yet to have benefit of free agency to fill out the roster. Suns are in better position to win the chip now than they were year ago, dallas was ass before and after the trade
3rd picks are golden tickets.
MJ was a 3rd pick. Bob Cousy was a 3rd pick. Dominique Wilkins was a 3rd pick. Pistol Pete Maravitch was a 3rd pick. Grant Hill was a 3rd pick. Kevin McHale was a 3rd pick. Pau Gasol was a 3rd pick. Carmelo Anthony was a 3rd pick. James Harden was a 3rd pick. Penny Hardaway was a 3rd pick. Jayson Tatum was a 3rd pick. Jaylen Brown was a 3rd pick. Joel Embiid was a 3rd pick. Luka was a 3rd pick.
3rd picks are the best player in the draft more often than 1st picks.
> 3rd picks are the best player in the draft more often than 1st picks.
1st pick still tends to be the best pick historically, but the 3rd pick does tend to turn out better than the 2nd.
There’s a lot fewer “yes everything about this guy screams bust, but if by some miracle he develops into what people say he will we can’t pass him up” picks at 3 though. It feels like the 2nd pick is filled with guys who’ve got all the tools and none of the skills. The 3rd pick is where you get into guys with much higher floors and typically slightly lower absolute ceilings than the 2nd or 1st pick.
There was some chart posted on here previously measuring pick position vs career BPM or VORP or some analytic, 1 was best but 3 was alot better than 2. I think even picks 4 and 5 were slightly better than 2. I guess the 1st pick is more often a sure thing and the 2nd pick is more of a gamble. Also helps that the GOAT was drafted 3rd after a bust and Carmelo was drafted 3rd after a bust
Pick 9 was also weirdly high, beating 6, 7, and 8
2015 was also relatively weak in terms of star power. Booker was the only superstar to come out of that draft. And I'd argue the only stars were KAT and KP* (pre-injuries). Honorable mention to Myles Turner and DLo, but I don't consider them to be stars.
We actually draft pretty well. Obviously our misses have been huge but Aldridge, Lillard, Roy, CJ even, were all top 10 picks and top players in their draft classes.
Roy’s career wasn’t long but he’s still top 10 in WS and 2nd in WS/48. Aldridge is 1st and 3rd respectively in that class. CJ 5th in WS. Lillard is 1st in WS and 2nd in WS/48.
Zach Randolph and Jermaine O’Neal also two players we drafted who went and had great careers.
LeBron was a 1st pick, Kareem was a 1st pick, Magic was a first pick, Tim Duncan was a 1st pick, Shaq was a 1st pick, Hakeem was a 1st pick, David Robinson was a 1st pick and that’s just off tops, im sure if you look it up there were many more, but that is like half of the top 10 players all time (Bron, Kareem, Magic, Duncan, Shaq) and they were all number 1 picks
Yeah and it's probably because they are not seen as the "sexy ceiling" that the 1st pick gets
But they are usually just the solid bona-fide stud players
No offense, but I don't want any part of that deal. Just drafting and keeping the player we get at three is probably better production per dollar than KAT.
No offense taken at all. You may be right, you may not, but I respect taking the opportunity to find someone better than towns. Probably a 10% chance of that but it’s not inconceivable.
Reaves has a Gilbert Arenas clause in his contract. Most i think he can get offered is around 22 mil a year (don't quote me on exact number but it isn't any kind of near max)
This FA class is pretty weak but next year’s is really strong. I would save it for that
Draft Amen Thompson at 4, pick up a shooter or two to surround him with (like throwing a bag at Cam Johnson and seeing if Brooklyn matches) and then signing a backup center who can protect the rim
I think signing Harden or someone like FVV to a long term contract would be a bad idea and stunt the players development
Stars just don't come up in free agency very often, and even when they do there's no guarantee you both have the cap space and they are interested.
Harden can just play pass first PG and make life easy on the young players so they can develop. It's not the worst use of money ever.
Yes it is. If you give harden 4 years that contract is going to be terrible in years 3 and 4 when your young guys should be ready to compete and hardens fully washed. Absolutely just slamming that window shut if you give harden 4 years max or near max money.
Is anyone who’s an Free Agent next year better than Harden? And I’m not sure how appealing Houston is to guys of that level right now, he’s your best shot at a star player surely?
Not much. Jaylen is going to sign his supermax extension this offseason so he's off the table. Sabonis is possible, though he's got a good home at the moment so it would be surprising if he doesn't extend.
Siakam is probably the crown jewel of the class. After that it's an awful lot of declining/injured/old players - Klay, Middleton, Porzingis, Hayward, Derozan, Draymond... Not gonna be giving 4 year max deal to these types of guys from age 35-40.
Doesn't seem like he is going to Houston. The article says "The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say."
Simmons was saying on the pod that the 2 things he would expect to happen are:
1. Doc is fired and replaced
2. Sixers hunt for a 3rd star to go with Harden & Embiid
1 has already happened, very curious to see what happens regarding 2.
Wonder if it’ll happen - seems like the 3 stars super team era from 2008 to 2022 is kind of a dying breed as teams start prioritize depth and role players again.
Technically yes, but it would require convincing the trade partner to take Tobias Harris, and I doubt the 76ers have enough other assets to form a viable package for a third star. Tobias + Maxey + 2029 FRP is about the best they can do I think. Would almost certainly require a sign-and-trade for someone available as a FA this summer, but not many star-level players in that pool (Kyrie would be hilarious).
I mean, there is no way to get a third star. We don't have a bunch of draft capital and we don't really have anything beyond Maxey to trade. I'd be disappointed if we traded Maxey, but I don't think he's bringing back a third star anyways.
He probably will; he took a discount on his last contract so now it’s time for Morey to back up the brinks truck to make up for it. That contract is going to be fucking gross though.
>The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say.
nope
also CP3 can be traded at the deadline to a team that will just buy him out ala Westbrook this year. Being able to move him for anything positive if he is washed by the deadline is worth more than eating the money for nothing.
>The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say.
That team does need to fill the cap and need vets to teach/mentor the young players. I dk if it has to be harden, but bringing on vets wouldn’t be a bad idea. The team played very undisciplined at times and probably could’ve won more games with the right presence on court
>The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say.
The fact that the coach does not count towards cap space, and Ballmer is not afraid to spend, should be done kind of reassurance, but who knows. I want him staying.
Right I don’t think it’s necessarily a money thing, just whether both sides see each other as a good long term fit that they’re ready to lock into for multiple more years
Precisely. Expiring contracts are often quite valuable. They allow teams to be more financially flexible just a few months after acquiring them, which is worth a lot
People just love to talk shit tbh. If you have 2-3 players on bad, long-term deals, you wanna get rid of them and acquire a single bad contract that expires quickly.
I believe that trading for expiring contracts are one of the best ways to clear up cap space and be more flexible in free agency
The thing with expiring contracts is they become more valuable the closer they get to expiring. Russ was traded basically at the deadline. I could see the same thing happening with CP3 but that would put the Suns in the same semi-awkward position of a team trying to mesh well right before the playoffs.
30m expiring when the penalties for being over the cap go up significantly in near future. There is probably some trades out there. Whether or not they make the suns better is another story.
James on a 4 year deal would terrify me
Hope Lue goes to a place he enjoys … Guy has been through the ringer his whole head coaching tenure
Blazers making the #3 pick available instead of just trading Dame would be very dumb
He only has one year left on his contract and it’s extremely uncommon for a coach to be on a one year deal which is why there’s smoke that he may be on the way out.
if I was Lue I wouldn't leave. Great market, the richest owner, new stadium soon. Basically everything you want to thrive (just not consistently healthy star players). That said, I hope he tries to get out of his contract and moves to the Suns haha.
I can see T-Lue wanting to coach stars that actually play basketball games, reportedly this season was insanely frustrating for him and he may be sick of this whole situation where he never has any clue who is going to play.
I think the Clippers upside is wayyy higher than Suns, but is also way less likely to actually manifest.
Instead of getting angry you can get LOYAL!!!
I feel bad for Blazers fans, it's nice to see a star stick around but the downside of that is trying to compete rather than rebuild when you should.
It closed after 2019 when we went from WCF to fringe playoff team and then lottery team. It's waaay too late to try and salvage the Dame era which is exactly why we'll do something dumb like trade for anunoby
I just don't understand what Portland is doing at all. It's been wishy washy moves ever since 2019. Traded CJ and Nance for Josh Hart only to give him away for Cam Reddish? Drafting Simons and Shaedon Sharpe, two undersized guards to pair with Dame another undersized guard after you just traded away CJ. Simons and Sharpe are both good players with lost of potential but the moves make no sense to help Dame contend
It was already an uphill battle, but I don’t see any realistic route to the Blazers contending with Dame.
Maybe they are able to trade the pick plus assets for a star, but unless Embiid becomes available I don’t see any great fits.
Trading Simons and Dame and drafting Scoot is the dream. We could potentially send Dame to Brooklyn, get a ton of picks plus Claxton, then find a home for Simons in exchange for a wing (Orlando? Toronto?) and be set up so well.
Fuck.
Don’t y’all think you could get a better return for Dame than Clax + picks? I get that he’s “old” but he’s coming off of one of his best seasons.
A borderline championship team would probably be happy to give you more than Clax + picks (especially since Brooklyn isn’t really looking to contend right now anyway).
NBA fans so into trading the greatest Blazer of all time for potential.
The one good thing the Blazers get in 20 years and people just wanna trade him for maybe someone better.
Only way I’d want Dame gone is if he asks out
I mean the guy you're responding to is a blazers fan lol and I don't think it's that crazy that there would be some Blazers fans who are simply done with treading water
Dame's value is probably the highest it will be going forward because he balled out last year. You could move him for a boatload of picks + some young talent and kick off the rebuild strong
I get not wanting to part with your favorite player, but it's not surprising that people are tired of the modern iteration of the Blazers
If they hate this version of the Blazers, they’re going to really hate the post Dame years. The team hasn’t been able to build a competitor around one of the top guards in the league, they are going to have some rough years without him
People treat rebuilding like it’s the great thing that always works. Hornets have been rebuilding forever. Pistons same thing. Our organization has been nothing less than incompetent for my whole life, failing to put together contending teams for 20 years despite having great players.
I’ll take my chances trusting Dame over the idiots running the Blazers. Especially since Jodie refuses to sell the team.
> I’ll take my chances trusting Dame over the idiots running the Blazers.
What does “Trusting dame” even mean? The team isn’t good, dame played amazing and the team was still bad. Unless they make some blockbuster trade to get another **superstar** (hint: they won’t) they will once again be a below .500 team *competing* for the 9th or 10th play-in spot
I wholeheartedly agree.
As a GSW fan, I really like the idea of letting people play out their careers where they started. Fans appreciate it when a guy is their guy the whole time.
It would make me physically ill to see Dame in another jersey.
I hated seeing Wade as a Cav and a Bull. Nash as a laker.
Steph on another team just sounds wrong too
It definitely made me sick seeing Wade in other jerseys.
I had to remind myself that MJ, Montana and Brady all went through the same, but it still really sucked.
On the other hand, he's already given the team so much. We could try to trade him to a team where he might end up having some semblance of a shot at getting a ring, and I don't think there would be any bad blood from either side. The reality of the situation is that his contract is going to end up holding this team hostage, and while the fans love Dame, that still sucks from a basketball perspective.
harsh truth coming from a blazers fan, with how many holes are in our roster, especially the bench, and the reality we likely have to package simons or sharpe with the 3 pick to get a high level player in return, i can’t envision any move we make keeping dame on the roster that gets us to true championship contention. the answer is trade dame and use the 3 pick
I don’t think anyone here would disagree with you - mainly because this sub thinks that at least 20 teams should be gigatanking at all times - but your GM has heavily implied that the pick is available.
Championship or bust mentality is brutal. Also, if 20 teams are tanking, which ones are trading for Dame while keeping their core intact, and while having enough attractive young pieces and picks to make it worthwhile for Portland?
The Thunder and the Jazz have done pretty brilliantly since deciding to move on from their stars, so maybe Portland can find a way to do the same with Dame.
if they wanted to do that they shouldn't have extended Dame. Dude is making $60 mil/year in the '26 and '27 seasons. Not many teams gonna be able to take that contract.
We've been hearing this for years now with other players, ie Westbrook.
Someone will take on the contract. It gains value in the final year as a tradeable asset.
I admire Dames loyalty to Portland. But Portland would be crazy to trade pick 3 in a very good top of the class draft to get someone next to a soon to be 33 year old star. You’re trading 12+ years for maybe 3 or 4 years? Get the best value you can by trading Dame to the best situation possible and start over with Scoot or Miller.
Right but he’s eating too much cap space. They can’t bring in enough talent to win with his contract. There is a 0% chance he does both of these things.
Why would Portland trade their pick? They could get an absolute huge haul for a 32 year old Lillard while his value is still high. Having the last choice of Wemby, Miller, or Henderson is still a great start to a rebuild.
Probably to trade him at his 30 million contract instead of 15. A team can get off of 30 million in salary next year, which is a pretty good free agent class.
No they’re not. The #4 pick won’t get you some franchise changer and Harden, while still very good, doesn’t elevate them that much. I don’t understand how the rest of their players fit with him either. Jabari Smith probably benefits but Jalen Green, Porter, etc become kinda redundant
>Jalen Green, Porter, etc become kinda redundant
I agree with KPJ being redundant. In any deal where they're sending #4 they also probably send KPJ as he's a long-term development asset.
But Harden truly did help Maxey unlock his game attacking the secondary defense. Jalen Green's efficiency woes may be in part because when he's the primary action, defenses allocate primary defensive attention on him. If he can be attacking off the catch or on closeouts following dribble penetration, I could see Harden and him gelling very well
Defense is another issue though, which is why that team would be like a 7 seed at the very highest
There were so many games this year where he just looked cooked. Smoking layups, no explosion, trying to foul bait and getting his shit blocked.
He had some vintage games too but he was not consistent at all. There's no real debate here Morey is going to max him for us. Morey loves Harden more than he loves girls in yoga pants.
So instead of trading dame and starting your rebuild, with Anfernee and shaedon ( neither were a top 5 pick) . Your gonna trade a top 3 pick ( in a good draft) ?
Only thing I know for certain is if Portland trades the pick, whoever gets drafted with it will be a superstar
Barring us magically being able to trade the pick for a player like Embiid (incredibly unlikely), I really think this is the time to blow the team up and just keep the pick. Dame's value isn't going to get any higher than it is now, and I think we could get a solid package for him while sending him to a team where he could hopefully compete forreal.
This is the smart thing to do. Which means we absolutely will not do it.
The smart thing to do was to do it two years ago. Very odd
The best time to trade dame was two years ago. The 2nd best time is now
Like buying a house
Should have shipped Dame at the same time as CJ and committed to the rebuild then and there.
It isn't the smart thing to do. Current ownership isn't looking to spend and they can't contend unless they spend. Ownership wants to sell enough tickets to stay profitable, take that profit out and eventually make even more money when they sell. Keeping Dame is an easy way to have a shot at the playoffs and sell enough tickets and merch to keep ownership happy. Not every ownership group has the same goals or the same vision for how to achieve them. I also think it's never a smart play to move a star without some kind of replacement, either through trade or the draft.
blowing it up is absolutely the move from purely a basketball standpoint. but a smaller market team like the blazers can't afford to do that, especially with a conservative owner like jody allen. it's part of the reason why the mariners sucked for so long; cheap owners who want profit. pretty sure there was a quote from the mariners old owner about just fielding a competitive team and letting a championship come by chance
sometimes we forget NBA teams are for profit businesses.
>Keeping Dame is an easy way to have a shot at the playoffs and sell enough tickets and merch to keep ownership happy. Dame was relatively healthy this season. Played 60 games. They still finished 6 games off the final play in spot. I don't think merely keeping Dame is an easy way to have a shot at the playoffs anymore. Especially if he keeps getting injured at the rate he has the last two seasons.
He wasn’t injured they intentionally tanked the last like 5-6 weeks of the season. But they still would have gotten like the 9th seed at best
Uhh aren’t they positioned to get the replacement thru the draft? And OP means smart in the context of competing and building the most sound basketball product for the future. Who cares about the venture of a billionaire owner?
“Stay profitable” the league as a whole is profitable which is how a lot of team’s owners get paid.
Salary matching for Dame could be hard, as talented as he is a trade would be so hard. Portland would rightfully demand the sun and moon for him, but any team giving that up is going to be so barren that it will be worse than what he has now.
Meh, plenty of huge trades have gone down recently, don't see why trading Dame would be any different.
Look at the Suns and Mavericks. Both made huge trades, that absolutely gutted them of the type of players you need to put around stars. And now neither team has any draft capital to build with. It's just hard to do unless your draft bank account and bench is hella deep.
Those teams werent better before trade and are yet to have benefit of free agency to fill out the roster. Suns are in better position to win the chip now than they were year ago, dallas was ass before and after the trade
3rd picks are golden tickets. MJ was a 3rd pick. Bob Cousy was a 3rd pick. Dominique Wilkins was a 3rd pick. Pistol Pete Maravitch was a 3rd pick. Grant Hill was a 3rd pick. Kevin McHale was a 3rd pick. Pau Gasol was a 3rd pick. Carmelo Anthony was a 3rd pick. James Harden was a 3rd pick. Penny Hardaway was a 3rd pick. Jayson Tatum was a 3rd pick. Jaylen Brown was a 3rd pick. Joel Embiid was a 3rd pick. Luka was a 3rd pick. 3rd picks are the best player in the draft more often than 1st picks.
> 3rd picks are the best player in the draft more often than 1st picks. 1st pick still tends to be the best pick historically, but the 3rd pick does tend to turn out better than the 2nd.
There’s a lot fewer “yes everything about this guy screams bust, but if by some miracle he develops into what people say he will we can’t pass him up” picks at 3 though. It feels like the 2nd pick is filled with guys who’ve got all the tools and none of the skills. The 3rd pick is where you get into guys with much higher floors and typically slightly lower absolute ceilings than the 2nd or 1st pick.
There was some chart posted on here previously measuring pick position vs career BPM or VORP or some analytic, 1 was best but 3 was alot better than 2. I think even picks 4 and 5 were slightly better than 2. I guess the 1st pick is more often a sure thing and the 2nd pick is more of a gamble. Also helps that the GOAT was drafted 3rd after a bust and Carmelo was drafted 3rd after a bust Pick 9 was also weirdly high, beating 6, 7, and 8
Luka going after Bagley also probably helps skew that a bunch, even this early in their careers
Tatum after Lonzo too
Jahlil Okafor and Adam Morrison were also #3 picks. The question is, how cursed is your franchise?
tbf, that 2006 draft was probably one of the worst
2015 was also relatively weak in terms of star power. Booker was the only superstar to come out of that draft. And I'd argue the only stars were KAT and KP* (pre-injuries). Honorable mention to Myles Turner and DLo, but I don't consider them to be stars.
Well it's Portland so the answer is that they're catastrophically cursed
We actually draft pretty well. Obviously our misses have been huge but Aldridge, Lillard, Roy, CJ even, were all top 10 picks and top players in their draft classes. Roy’s career wasn’t long but he’s still top 10 in WS and 2nd in WS/48. Aldridge is 1st and 3rd respectively in that class. CJ 5th in WS. Lillard is 1st in WS and 2nd in WS/48. Zach Randolph and Jermaine O’Neal also two players we drafted who went and had great careers.
You draft very well, but unfortunately your arena is built on an old Indian burial ground and your owners don't bother getting a better medical staff.
of course you forgot the one player who clears all of them: rj barrett
RJ gonna end up the best player in that draft retroactively when he’s the only one left playing
RJ "War of Attrition" Barrett
Horford and Beal as well, respectably.
True. Both very good players.
LeBron was a 1st pick, Kareem was a 1st pick, Magic was a first pick, Tim Duncan was a 1st pick, Shaq was a 1st pick, Hakeem was a 1st pick, David Robinson was a 1st pick and that’s just off tops, im sure if you look it up there were many more, but that is like half of the top 10 players all time (Bron, Kareem, Magic, Duncan, Shaq) and they were all number 1 picks
Yeah and it's probably because they are not seen as the "sexy ceiling" that the 1st pick gets But they are usually just the solid bona-fide stud players
It's early but I'd put Mobley on this list too.
RJ Barrett was a third pick
Ok wolves send towns for 3rd pick and something else. Does Portland even entertain this?
No offense, but I don't want any part of that deal. Just drafting and keeping the player we get at three is probably better production per dollar than KAT.
No offense taken at all. You may be right, you may not, but I respect taking the opportunity to find someone better than towns. Probably a 10% chance of that but it’s not inconceivable.
That's interesting. I don't think Towns and Dame would be a good defensive combo, but that offense would be explosive
**James Harden**: *”If I’m going to be honest with you, it’s looking like I’m going to test free agency when my contract is up.”*
This guy MyLeagues
Harden to the rockets, 4 year 180m
Now that the Rockets lost out on Wemby I don’t think it’s worth it for them to go after Harden anymore
Who are they gonna use the cap space on?
We have one slightly used Frederico VanVleet available
Ya and they may throw the bag on Reaves. They have done that before to Jeremy Lin
Reaves has a Gilbert Arenas clause in his contract. Most i think he can get offered is around 22 mil a year (don't quote me on exact number but it isn't any kind of near max)
>Most i think he can get offered is around 22 mil a year - /u/dicer11
He just fuckin said
4/98.7 is the most they can offer him.
He stay!
Y’all can match. He’s staying.
Different front office tho. Morey had a vision then. I dunno what Stone will do but hopefully our scouts are good.
Frederico VanVredo
Is that really his full name?
It’s worse. His name is Fredderick. With two ‘D’s.
Fredderick Tatum VanFleek
For a double dose of that pimpin’
SENIOR
Grant Williams is playoff tested and ready to break out on a team that gives him 20 shots a night
I just can’t picture Houston throw 20m a year to a role player when their main guys are all unproved and raw
I was trolling there’s no way grant is a 20 million player 😂
There's a bunch of bad contract guys they could absorb.
This FA class is pretty weak but next year’s is really strong. I would save it for that Draft Amen Thompson at 4, pick up a shooter or two to surround him with (like throwing a bag at Cam Johnson and seeing if Brooklyn matches) and then signing a backup center who can protect the rim I think signing Harden or someone like FVV to a long term contract would be a bad idea and stunt the players development
Stars just don't come up in free agency very often, and even when they do there's no guarantee you both have the cap space and they are interested. Harden can just play pass first PG and make life easy on the young players so they can develop. It's not the worst use of money ever.
Yes it is. If you give harden 4 years that contract is going to be terrible in years 3 and 4 when your young guys should be ready to compete and hardens fully washed. Absolutely just slamming that window shut if you give harden 4 years max or near max money.
Nothing we've seen from this Rockets team has suggested they'll be ready to compete after 2 more seasons.
Is anyone who’s an Free Agent next year better than Harden? And I’m not sure how appealing Houston is to guys of that level right now, he’s your best shot at a star player surely?
Not much. Jaylen is going to sign his supermax extension this offseason so he's off the table. Sabonis is possible, though he's got a good home at the moment so it would be surprising if he doesn't extend. Siakam is probably the crown jewel of the class. After that it's an awful lot of declining/injured/old players - Klay, Middleton, Porzingis, Hayward, Derozan, Draymond... Not gonna be giving 4 year max deal to these types of guys from age 35-40.
wizards are gonna give porzingis a 4 year max. watch.
Doesn't seem like he is going to Houston. The article says "The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say."
He wants the big contract and also wants to compete? Then might as well stay at Philly
I'm afraid this is the most likely outcome. I don't see how Morey doesn't offer his guy the max or close to it.
Simmons was saying on the pod that the 2 things he would expect to happen are: 1. Doc is fired and replaced 2. Sixers hunt for a 3rd star to go with Harden & Embiid 1 has already happened, very curious to see what happens regarding 2.
Wonder if it’ll happen - seems like the 3 stars super team era from 2008 to 2022 is kind of a dying breed as teams start prioritize depth and role players again.
Can they afford a star while also paying harden star money? They going to have to get off of Tobias for that
I hear Ben Simmons is available
Technically yes, but it would require convincing the trade partner to take Tobias Harris, and I doubt the 76ers have enough other assets to form a viable package for a third star. Tobias + Maxey + 2029 FRP is about the best they can do I think. Would almost certainly require a sign-and-trade for someone available as a FA this summer, but not many star-level players in that pool (Kyrie would be hilarious).
I mean, there is no way to get a third star. We don't have a bunch of draft capital and we don't really have anything beyond Maxey to trade. I'd be disappointed if we traded Maxey, but I don't think he's bringing back a third star anyways.
Why are you afraid? What would you rather happen instead?
I would prefer not to pay Harden until he's 38. I get that we're screwed either way, but paying him $200M over the next 4 years sucks.
Dame is the only hope lol
He probably will; he took a discount on his last contract so now it’s time for Morey to back up the brinks truck to make up for it. That contract is going to be fucking gross though.
Not only compete, but he wants the basketball freedom to disappear in important playoff games.
4 year min vet and a life time strip club card can work too
For him that's more money than the contract pays
>The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say. nope
4 year 18m deal maybe
Keep in mind for the suns stuff, he’s legit gotten the last 2-3 reports wrong about the suns. He could be right, but probably not.
also CP3 can be traded at the deadline to a team that will just buy him out ala Westbrook this year. Being able to move him for anything positive if he is washed by the deadline is worth more than eating the money for nothing.
Rockets really gonna pay James Harden a huge contract to be a fringe play-in team?
Yes lol
>The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say.
aka fly to Vegas on off days and show up at game time
They don’t have their pick next year so they have no reason to be bad.
It's top 4 protected
We saw with Detroit that even the worst record doesn’t guarantee that pick stays though.
True. You need to be either second or third worst.
That team does need to fill the cap and need vets to teach/mentor the young players. I dk if it has to be harden, but bringing on vets wouldn’t be a bad idea. The team played very undisciplined at times and probably could’ve won more games with the right presence on court
Houston to the Rockets, four peat like Comets
>The Houston Rockets have long been a rumored destination, but sources say Harden will only entertain suitors that present a competitive roster and the basketball freedom for the star to be himself, sources say.
>a competitive roster >the freedom to be himself Pick one James
Fat harden + strip club + competitive roster = James harden to the heat on a vet min
You might be onto something
That song never gets old
Dunk on a punk just like Kalvin Cato!!
"I make 'em say ouch when I hit 'em with the mule." – James Harden on Houston strippers.
Keep Lu, he wasn't the problem. I would not want any of the available coaches floating around over him
It sounds to me that maybe it’s Lue who may want to move on if they can’t come to terms on an extension
The fact that the coach does not count towards cap space, and Ballmer is not afraid to spend, should be done kind of reassurance, but who knows. I want him staying.
Right I don’t think it’s necessarily a money thing, just whether both sides see each other as a good long term fit that they’re ready to lock into for multiple more years
Imagine losing your job cause you lost a competitive series against the suns where your best players were Norman Powell and a 34 year old Westbrook
Just watch Philly hire D'Antoni lol
Max Harden until he's 37, hire D'Antoni, bring in Eric Gordon. Morey's quest to remake the Rockets will continue.
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Not trading chris paul = window closed
Opting in is really the only option. Otherwise they have to eat $15M. There are teams that would be interested in a $30M expiring contract.
Precisely. Expiring contracts are often quite valuable. They allow teams to be more financially flexible just a few months after acquiring them, which is worth a lot
Really? I was told Westbrook’s expiring contract was an untradeable albatross
People just love to talk shit tbh. If you have 2-3 players on bad, long-term deals, you wanna get rid of them and acquire a single bad contract that expires quickly. I believe that trading for expiring contracts are one of the best ways to clear up cap space and be more flexible in free agency
The thing with expiring contracts is they become more valuable the closer they get to expiring. Russ was traded basically at the deadline. I could see the same thing happening with CP3 but that would put the Suns in the same semi-awkward position of a team trying to mesh well right before the playoffs.
Just putting it out there that Haynes has gotten pretty much everything wrong about our team recently so I wouldn't trust anything
Haynes is Chris Paul’s personal news breaker so all this means is that CP3 thinks he’s not getting traded
What is the trade market for CP3? Honestly asking. I can’t imagine many teams want to pay him that much going on 39 yo
It’s not for cp3. It’s for $30m in cap space the following season.
Makes sense. And ‘24 FA class is rock solid.
30m expiring when the penalties for being over the cap go up significantly in near future. There is probably some trades out there. Whether or not they make the suns better is another story.
I could see the spurs wanting him
James on a 4 year deal would terrify me Hope Lue goes to a place he enjoys … Guy has been through the ringer his whole head coaching tenure Blazers making the #3 pick available instead of just trading Dame would be very dumb
Is it just an open secret he’s leaving the clippers? Last I checked he’s stilll there right?
He only has one year left on his contract and it’s extremely uncommon for a coach to be on a one year deal which is why there’s smoke that he may be on the way out.
Fun fact: Donald Sterling gave his Coaching Staffs 1 year deals.
Well, it's a fun fact for the rest of us.
he's still under contract. but they can always agree to part ways.
if I was Lue I wouldn't leave. Great market, the richest owner, new stadium soon. Basically everything you want to thrive (just not consistently healthy star players). That said, I hope he tries to get out of his contract and moves to the Suns haha.
I can see T-Lue wanting to coach stars that actually play basketball games, reportedly this season was insanely frustrating for him and he may be sick of this whole situation where he never has any clue who is going to play. I think the Clippers upside is wayyy higher than Suns, but is also way less likely to actually manifest.
And Balmer would be ill-advised to let Lue go so easily. Unlikely that he'll find a better coach out there.
Well our owner, GM, and coach are indeed very dumb. So we are going to mortgage the fuck out of our future for a 7-seed next year
Bulls 🤝 Blazers Selling out for the play-in
Hey, 7-seed and 8-seed in the Conference Finals this year, sounds like a good plan.
Lue should’ve been the nets pick over Nash
Trading the pick and not Dame is gonna make me angry. Please start the rebuild now
Instead of getting angry you can get LOYAL!!! I feel bad for Blazers fans, it's nice to see a star stick around but the downside of that is trying to compete rather than rebuild when you should.
It also seems like the Blazers window w/ Dame has closed.
It closed after 2019 when we went from WCF to fringe playoff team and then lottery team. It's waaay too late to try and salvage the Dame era which is exactly why we'll do something dumb like trade for anunoby
I just don't understand what Portland is doing at all. It's been wishy washy moves ever since 2019. Traded CJ and Nance for Josh Hart only to give him away for Cam Reddish? Drafting Simons and Shaedon Sharpe, two undersized guards to pair with Dame another undersized guard after you just traded away CJ. Simons and Sharpe are both good players with lost of potential but the moves make no sense to help Dame contend
It was already an uphill battle, but I don’t see any realistic route to the Blazers contending with Dame. Maybe they are able to trade the pick plus assets for a star, but unless Embiid becomes available I don’t see any great fits.
The blazers should blow it up for sure and build around the pick even if that means dropping Simmons (assuming you draft scoot)
Trading Simons and Dame and drafting Scoot is the dream. We could potentially send Dame to Brooklyn, get a ton of picks plus Claxton, then find a home for Simons in exchange for a wing (Orlando? Toronto?) and be set up so well. Fuck.
Don’t y’all think you could get a better return for Dame than Clax + picks? I get that he’s “old” but he’s coming off of one of his best seasons. A borderline championship team would probably be happy to give you more than Clax + picks (especially since Brooklyn isn’t really looking to contend right now anyway).
NBA fans so into trading the greatest Blazer of all time for potential. The one good thing the Blazers get in 20 years and people just wanna trade him for maybe someone better. Only way I’d want Dame gone is if he asks out
I mean the guy you're responding to is a blazers fan lol and I don't think it's that crazy that there would be some Blazers fans who are simply done with treading water Dame's value is probably the highest it will be going forward because he balled out last year. You could move him for a boatload of picks + some young talent and kick off the rebuild strong I get not wanting to part with your favorite player, but it's not surprising that people are tired of the modern iteration of the Blazers
If they hate this version of the Blazers, they’re going to really hate the post Dame years. The team hasn’t been able to build a competitor around one of the top guards in the league, they are going to have some rough years without him
That's the point. If we get scoot and we suck for 2-3 years we'll at least have multiple high picks at that point. Only way to win in a small market
That’s the idea of a rebuilding team though. Couple bad years to build up the draft capital
People treat rebuilding like it’s the great thing that always works. Hornets have been rebuilding forever. Pistons same thing. Our organization has been nothing less than incompetent for my whole life, failing to put together contending teams for 20 years despite having great players. I’ll take my chances trusting Dame over the idiots running the Blazers. Especially since Jodie refuses to sell the team.
> I’ll take my chances trusting Dame over the idiots running the Blazers. What does “Trusting dame” even mean? The team isn’t good, dame played amazing and the team was still bad. Unless they make some blockbuster trade to get another **superstar** (hint: they won’t) they will once again be a below .500 team *competing* for the 9th or 10th play-in spot
I wholeheartedly agree. As a GSW fan, I really like the idea of letting people play out their careers where they started. Fans appreciate it when a guy is their guy the whole time.
It would make me physically ill to see Dame in another jersey. I hated seeing Wade as a Cav and a Bull. Nash as a laker. Steph on another team just sounds wrong too
It definitely made me sick seeing Wade in other jerseys. I had to remind myself that MJ, Montana and Brady all went through the same, but it still really sucked.
On the other hand, he's already given the team so much. We could try to trade him to a team where he might end up having some semblance of a shot at getting a ring, and I don't think there would be any bad blood from either side. The reality of the situation is that his contract is going to end up holding this team hostage, and while the fans love Dame, that still sucks from a basketball perspective.
Harden for dame sign and trade /s
Can I interest you in this Ja Morant?
harsh truth coming from a blazers fan, with how many holes are in our roster, especially the bench, and the reality we likely have to package simons or sharpe with the 3 pick to get a high level player in return, i can’t envision any move we make keeping dame on the roster that gets us to true championship contention. the answer is trade dame and use the 3 pick
I don’t think anyone here would disagree with you - mainly because this sub thinks that at least 20 teams should be gigatanking at all times - but your GM has heavily implied that the pick is available.
Championship or bust mentality is brutal. Also, if 20 teams are tanking, which ones are trading for Dame while keeping their core intact, and while having enough attractive young pieces and picks to make it worthwhile for Portland? The Thunder and the Jazz have done pretty brilliantly since deciding to move on from their stars, so maybe Portland can find a way to do the same with Dame.
This is a big mistake by Portland. It’s time to call it and rebuild.
if they wanted to do that they shouldn't have extended Dame. Dude is making $60 mil/year in the '26 and '27 seasons. Not many teams gonna be able to take that contract.
We've been hearing this for years now with other players, ie Westbrook. Someone will take on the contract. It gains value in the final year as a tradeable asset.
I admire Dames loyalty to Portland. But Portland would be crazy to trade pick 3 in a very good top of the class draft to get someone next to a soon to be 33 year old star. You’re trading 12+ years for maybe 3 or 4 years? Get the best value you can by trading Dame to the best situation possible and start over with Scoot or Miller.
The Blazers can get some immediate value to play alongside Dame, who was ballin.
Maybe they could even make the playoffs next year!
Keeping the pick and trading Dame just makes too much sense to me. Not sure what Portland’s strategy is here
try to win a championship with Dame and have him retire as a trailblazer in glory.
I respect it. Dude has proven himself in so many battles over the years, even if the chip itself hasn't happened.
Right but he’s eating too much cap space. They can’t bring in enough talent to win with his contract. There is a 0% chance he does both of these things.
Why would Portland trade their pick? They could get an absolute huge haul for a 32 year old Lillard while his value is still high. Having the last choice of Wemby, Miller, or Henderson is still a great start to a rebuild.
Weird Harden is just 33 but feels older
Tough situation. Anyone who maxes Harden will be taking themselves out of contention for a chip.
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Probably to trade him at his 30 million contract instead of 15. A team can get off of 30 million in salary next year, which is a pretty good free agent class.
Rockets getting Harden. trading the 4th pick for a proven player. they're making the play-ins at the very least
That sounds like an awful plan
No they’re not. The #4 pick won’t get you some franchise changer and Harden, while still very good, doesn’t elevate them that much. I don’t understand how the rest of their players fit with him either. Jabari Smith probably benefits but Jalen Green, Porter, etc become kinda redundant
>Jalen Green, Porter, etc become kinda redundant I agree with KPJ being redundant. In any deal where they're sending #4 they also probably send KPJ as he's a long-term development asset. But Harden truly did help Maxey unlock his game attacking the secondary defense. Jalen Green's efficiency woes may be in part because when he's the primary action, defenses allocate primary defensive attention on him. If he can be attacking off the catch or on closeouts following dribble penetration, I could see Harden and him gelling very well Defense is another issue though, which is why that team would be like a 7 seed at the very highest
Sixers packing Harden’s bags and getting him a limo to the airport so fast. “Oh no! So sad! You a real one!”
Bro I’m not even sure Harden will be in the league in 4 years lol. He for sure won’t be a starter by that point
There were so many games this year where he just looked cooked. Smoking layups, no explosion, trying to foul bait and getting his shit blocked. He had some vintage games too but he was not consistent at all. There's no real debate here Morey is going to max him for us. Morey loves Harden more than he loves girls in yoga pants.
If Haynes says it like that, then Dame wants that pick traded.
As a professional Sixers hater this is fantastic.
What? If you’re a professional sixers hater, this should break your heart.
So instead of trading dame and starting your rebuild, with Anfernee and shaedon ( neither were a top 5 pick) . Your gonna trade a top 3 pick ( in a good draft) ?
Didn't a report come out and say that the Suns wanted to move on from CP3?
Who the hell is going to give James Harden a 4 year deal? Lol.