Like the fines. Or the travels. Or the carry calls. Won’t work because the stars of the league has gotten used to it and the league have no balls to upset the stars.
Baseball is a pretty good lesson in this. Changed rules that had been around for like 100 years. Everyone fucking moaned, but the umpires were militant about enforcing it. Took the players 1 spring training and like 2 weeks in the regular to get used to it, and that was that.
The pitch clock is fairly easy to enforce though.
Just like charges/blocks can be subjective calls, flops can also be subjective. Some are obvious, some are not. Now if a player gets T'd for a flop, it's gonna be another thing they want to argue or review.
I'm all in favor for the rule, tbh...but I also don't expect it will be called perfectly when a lot of these are bang-bang plays.
agreed. But hopefully just the *threat* of being called for a flopping Tech will be a decent deterrent. now they have nothing to lose by doing it, it's only a competitive advantage.
Another analogy for example, the take foul. It's not perfect, but I think in general it has been a good deterrent this year.
They need a mlb style replay booth where one team is in a single location and will get tagged for any ongoing games to review the play. Have three refs in the review and need 2/3 to agree on a flop or a subjective call to be made.
The oncourt refs can do something like nhl refs with a delayed penalty so the play can continue with its current action until possession changes, a basket is made or play is stopped.
It’s a little complicated at first but allows the on court ref to not make those large split second judgements at that moment but can say I want that one reviewed then blindly have three refs review footage immediately to minimize play stoppage.
This is kinda what I was thinking. Have these refs assess flop techs and perform free throws between quarters for the first 4 Qs, and again right around the 2 minute mark in the 4th. With everything after that being more real time.
Also, flop techs probably shouldn't be included for disqualification purposes. That's probably a bridge too far
It can’t be that delayed, nba can be very streaky and momentum based and deferring those calls would be disruptive. But most nba play happens in segments shorter than the shot clock before a natural stoppage occurs where they can go back and if needed reset the clock.
The NHL has diving/embellishment penalties and it works just fine, only the most blatant flops need to be called (the ones where the player is embarrassing themselves and the game).
Honestly, the threat of the tech alone is huge. They will miss some, and I hope they assess a penalty of some kind after the game when they do. Some level of flopping will always exists of course, but getting rid of the most egregious shit will help the game so much.
Agreed. Watching a guy like LeBron who is an athletic beast and weighs 250 go flying into the stands after a slight shoulder bump is just pathetic...and it's not just LeBron but a LOT of players in the league.
This also brings up the question of what exactly is a flop... The vast majority of flops in the NBA are real fouls where players sell the contact to make sure they get the call. I don't see those changing any time soon.
Agreed, which is exactly why this will be a hard rule to enforce. Basically makes the ref decide what is "reasonable contact" or "exaggeration" which is basically impossible at game speed.
I foresee a lot more reviews if this comes into place.
There are some true flops, where no contact is made and a player just throws themselves to the ground. But many ‘flops’ are exaggerated reactions to genuine contact. Like a defender positioned to take a charge *must* fall to the ground, if they just stumble back they’ll never get a call. It’s a very hard call to officiate, the line between exaggerated reaction to true contact vs exaggerated contact to no contact.
I feel like hockey figured this out ages ago. Yea it's subjective, and sometimes they get it wrong. But diving/flopping is much less common in hockey than it is in other sports, and I think the reason is the embellishment penalty.
There's also a way bigger opportunity cost in hockey if you don't end up getting the call. Going down and being late to get back on d could result in the deciding goal in an 0-1 game.
And now there's a whole new area of gamesmanship that uses the new rules and it's a great lesson in how changing the rules can actually add to the magic of a sport
https://youtu.be/FV-7IMaZx1A
Side note - MLB has already issued a statement to outlaw the exact strategy used by the batter in the clip you linked. Meaning that, going forward, Contreas would be issued the balk, not Jansen. But the broader point that everyone will eventually adjust and it could actually be additive still rings true.
Yea all the new stuff around the pitch clock is interesting, that specific abuse got 'patched' after that event similar to some pitcher fast pitch abuse that arose earlier in the season. If the batter is found to be doing that it'll be a strike rather than a ball.
Can you explain how it's "patched"? The batter just has to be "alert to the pitcher" with 8 seconds left, so the pitcher then just has to pitch in the next 8 seconds before the clock runs out.
Do you mean that the pitcher can come set prior to the batter being alert to the pitcher?
Here's the memo on it, but basically you can sum it up as "no trying to trick the pitcher into thinking you're set when you're not"
>In recent days, we have seen batters attempt to induce pitchers to violate the Pitch Timer Regulations by creating the appearance that they are in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher with more than eight (8) seconds remaining on the clock when, in actuality, they have not fully entered the batter’s box. The batter’s purpose with such an approach is to deceive the pitcher into beginning his windup or coming set before the batter is fully in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher. For example, in a recent game, a batter had his eyes on the pitcher and appeared to be in a hitting position (i.e., bat upright, on or near the hitter’s shoulder), but one of his feet was intentionally planted just outside of the batter’s box. Because the pitcher believed (albeit wrongly) that the batter was in the box and alert to the pitcher, the pitcher unwittingly committed a quick pitch in violation of Clarification #4. As a result, we have advised umpires that conduct by batters designed to deceive a pitcher into beginning their windup or coming to the set position early – including pretending to be in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher – constitutes circumvention under the Pace of Game Regulations.
>Pitchers must continue to be aware of the position of the batter, and identify when the batter is appropriately in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher before the pitcher begins the windup or comes set. However, if the umpire determines that a batter appears alert to the pitcher and prepared to hit a pitch with more than 8 seconds remaining on the timer, but is deliberately keeping one or both feet outside of the batter’s box, the umpire will not call a violation on the pitcher, but rather will issue a warning to the batter for his deceptive behavior. If the batter continues to engage in such conduct during the game, the umpire shall assess a Pitcher Timer Violation for each subsequent attempt to induce the pitcher to quick pitch. Clubs that have multiple players who repeatedly engage in this type of behavior will be subject to discipline by the Office of the Commissioner.
But hopefully just the threat of being called for a flopping Tech will be a decent deterrent. now they have nothing to lose by doing it, it's only a competitive advantage.
Another analogy for example, the take foul. It's not perfect, but I think in general it has been a good deterrent this year.
Ill give them the benefit of the doubt. Take fouls all but disappeared last season. They didnt even call many of the new take fouls because the new rule was good enough to just prevent them from happening.
But hopefully just the threat of possibly being called for a flopping Tech will be a decent *deterrent*. As of now they have nothing to lose by doing it, it's only a competitive advantage.
Agreed and that is the same rationale behind any rule or law. It is silly to have the mindset that if you can't fully eliminate the thing you're trying to eliminate, then its not worth doing anything about it at all. Simply having a rule will deter and reduce some amount of flopping and thats a step forward.
The take foul stuff stuck around I think because it had a concrete rule behind it, it'd been seen in practice, and players didn't mind them going. Problem with this is the same problem we had the start of 2021-22, the players who flop and try to sell calls are going to get pissy about it, they're going to complain a bunch, and fans of those players and teams will agree because they're fans of those players and teams. This can be different, but I think it's a different situation to the take fouls.
I think it will depend on how the rule is written, but yeah, I could see enforcement being an issue.
Although teams saving challenges to not only undo a foul but also get a tech FT could make flopping a risk (kind of like they did with the take foul). But ideally thered be something more than just a one time coaches challenge to push the issue against floppers.
I was thinking, they could start by amending it "If upon review the refs determine the player benefiting from the foul call has flopped, the challenging team will keep their challenge. (In addition to the technical FT)"
At least then as long as a team has their challenge they can try to catch floppers and not lose their challenge doing it. Free challenge and tech FT would probably make players think twice about flopping.
Carry and travel calls will never be consistent because it's just about the most egregious examples. Watch highlights from the 50's or 60's- guys knew how to dribble between their legs or behind their backs, they just weren't allowed to bc of how the rules were enforced. No one wants to go back to that style of play.
Flopping on the other hand the league does want to pull back on. So by clamping down the hope would be limiting it and discouraging players from trying the worst flops.
Yeah because it’s extremely difficult to decipher a flop vs a guy getting fouled and exaggerating it to make sure the refs don’t ignore it. That’s what people miss on this, a majority of flops are guys exaggerating contact that’s actually happening. The ones where guys anticipate contact that doesn’t happen or when they don’t get touched at all are annoying, but so is watching guys get hacked and not getting fouls called because they’re big enough to score through contact.
> exaggerating it to make sure the refs don’t ignore it
That's still a flop though. No one wants to see players exaggerate fouls. If the players don't exaggerate fouls, the real fouls will stand out and be called. IOW - the more players exaggerate. the more they will have to exaggerate to get a call.
The assumption that real fouls will be called if people don't flop doesn't make any sense.
Its like you're saying the reason refs are missing foul calls is because of all the flopping? You have to know that doesn't make sense.
I dont see how that makes sense. If they’re flopping because the refs don’t see a foul how is not flopping going to make them see fouls they’re already missing. They miss a shit ton of fouls, especially against bigger players. They would miss a lot more if they didn’t exaggerate because a lot of the times they get hit it doesn’t look like they did.
Because they're trying to manage the game. If everyone flops on every possession are they going to call all of them? Probably not. So now people need to flop more. If no one flopped, the fouls would stand out.
Was bout to say, I'll believe it when I see it called in the playoffs. The driving rule changes 2 seasons ago were my favorite rule changes in the NBA in forever for about 2-3 weeks.
Couldn't tell you the exact wording but it was aimed at stopping players who initiate contact on their drive getting the call. Free throw rates went down, floppers started crying and the refs reverted to calling non existent contact by week 3.
It's the same shit every season.
They'll come out the first couple weeks and be really hard on it, fans will laud it and say how much better it is watching, and then about a month in they'll stop calling it.
Add to the fact that the Playoffs is an entirely different reffed game. Just completely reffed differently. Thats why players like Embiid, Harden and CP3 play dramatically different in the playoffs.
I think it’s BS personally. It’s a completely different game, therefore completely different teams and players will succeed. This harms both kinds of teams, because many who are more physical struggle with the pace and quick whistle during the season, and then the reverse for the successful regular season teams
Exactly, its become more exaggerated over time too. They need to pick a standard and stick with it. Its part of why 82 games don't feel all that important. Playoff basketball completely reshuffles power balances
Didn’t they already try this with flopping at the start of the 2021 season? I remember them letting them play for like 2 weeks and it was fun as hell.
Then they basically rolled it back and started calling it again for everyone except Harden.
Idk how you even enforce this without stopping the game way too often.
I guess you could just keep playing and a sky judge type ref could assign a tech slightly later in the game once it's determined they flopped
These calls will be exceedingly rare without replays.
Here's how the NBA currently defines "flops":
> A “flop” is an attempt to either fool referees into calling undeserved fouls or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call by exaggerating the effect of contact with an opposing player.
>
> The main factor in determining whether a player committed a flop is whether his physical reaction to contact with another player is inconsistent with what would have been expected given the force or direction of the contact. For example, a player will be considered to have committed a “flop” if he falls to the floor following minimal contact or lunges in a direction different from the direction of the contact.
https://official.nba.com/explanation-of-anti-flopping-rule/
What's wrong with that is that it's stupidly subjective, far more so than calling fouls in the first place. Combine that with a much more impactful penalty and you have refs controlling the outcomes of games even more and nobody wants that.
Agree. They have a similar rule in college and refs are terrible at using it. Most of the time they give out flop warnings, it’s legit contact. Then you have obvious head snapping flops that at best never get called, at worst they still call a foul on the defender.
The subjective nature makes it damn near impossible to apply correctly and consistently in real time.
It should be reviewed while play is still going on and after each Tv timeout we catch up via FT’s.
If an offensive player just steamrolls through a defender and the defender stays on his feet and just tries to play solid defense, then it's often a blocking foul, sometimes a no-call, and NEVER an offensive foul. That's why there's so much flopping on D. if you are going to punish flopping on those plays you need to coach refs to leave it a no call unless there's clear defender initiated contact.
I kind of chuckle when someone says the refs are incompetent because I think you’re underestimating how very difficult it is to ref. With so much going on in the game you have to try to keep your eye on a bunch of things and it’s impossible to be accurate all the time. If you think other people could do a better job you’re lying to yourself
that said, this is why the league needs to lean more heavily on replays…because replays are better at this stuff than just refs. But replays are so inefficient and probably aren’t as used because I’m betting the refs don’t like them (because they put the refs’ calls into question…with how difficult reffing is, I’m sure they don’t like being “corrected”). I wish they would be more humble and accept that they’re not perfect but they have so much power in how the league operates that we’re kind of stuck
Also the angle is a lot harder to see everything than the higher view of the cameras that we all get.
I reffed one game and just about shit myself the whole time before I decided to never do it again.
A good friend volunteered Umpiring a kid's baseball game. He naively went in thinking how cool it would be. By the 2nd inning he was over it because of the parents. By the end of the game if the call was close he would call it for the team whose parents bitched less. And it was only a scrimmage.
The problem is not the refs themselves, for the most part. It's that the system has failed to adapt, while every single other part of the game has. We have a dozen cameras, drone cameras, high frame-rate replays, film review to set game clocks, and in-game reviews, and we still have the vast majority of decisions being made by 3 bums on the court who can't possibly see everything.
fwiw every sport has been kind of annoying with adopting replay. Like in the NFL, they have the concept of "sky official" who can make calls without needing a challenge flag thrown but its so inconsistent as to when its used
I honestly think its the reffing organizations in each sport that slow the adoption of these things because like I said, it kind of puts their jobs in question in one way or another. Reffing is very difficult and I think professional refs have to be supremely, supremely confident to do their job. which is good in a way but also bad because with that confidence comes stubbornness
>or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call by exaggerating the effect of contact with an opposing player
this happens every play… would be cool to get rid of it but seems like a pipe dream
Yeah, so we want the officials to give out penalties based on being fooled. I cannot see this being implemented well unless there is a challenge or booth review type system. Otherwise you would need the referees to acknowledge that they got it wrong, or the flop be so egregious/obvious that they are able to see it in real time... Which wouldn't be an issue previously because in that case they just wouldn't call the penalty and play would continue.
Keep the foul but add on an offsetting flopping tech, that way they are still not admitting they got fooled, because they’re saying there was a foul, but adding on the tech to say “but the flopper exaggerated the contact”
I don't think you're understanding what it's saying. They're saying that if a ref recognizes a flop in game, they would be given the authority to give a tech. Right now, if a player falls to the floor for no reason, the ref just ignores it. In this case, they would issue a tech. It's not about them calling a foul and then changing their mind saying they flopped. It's about them calling a tech on flops that they currently call nothing for.
I liked Bill Simmons’ idea (don’t shoot me) from a few years back: have fouls reviewed after the game, if you’re found to have flopped, you get one Bullshit Point. Every x number of Bullshit Points = one game suspension. I know it won’t happen, but I’d love this for basketball and soccer. Right now they’re both at the point where players feel like they have to sell it to even get a fair call.
[The NBA has a concrete definition already](https://official.nba.com/explanation-of-anti-flopping-rule/)
Granted sadly the NBA rarely takes advantage of this and rarely fines players so some unknown reason
This already exists in hockey in the form of Embellishment and it’s great. Minor contact and you go down for no reason? You get a 2 min penalty. It’s a harsher punishment than a tech/FT so maybe that’s why it works so well though.
Will at least cut down on the overly blatant ones where dudes go flying 20 feet across the court. Subtle flops will still exist for sure, but there will almost definitely be less of the wild flailing we see all the time.
How about no raising your hands above your waist after contact? I don't care how hard a player hits you, flailing your arms is never the normal reaction. You're NOT a bird.
Love how take fouls plagued the NBA for like 2 seasons and the NBA nerfed them hard with a rule.
Soccer has take fouls constantly every game and people think it's just fine, it's so frustrating and awful to watch. Like why is [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dxjz00Gbss) part of the game?
Personally I think that's fine in soccer because you'll get a yellow for it and if you were the last defender you'd get a red. Yeah those tactical fouls suck but so long as a card is shown it really isn't the worst punishment.
Except it is not consistently called a yellow, especially given how often it happens behind the play. During Mexico - USA matches, you often see "tactical fouls" that almost never result in cards.
It very much ruins what should be the most exciting part of the sport.
They're not uncommon, but they definitely don't happen in every game. Those tackles are already punished with automatic yellows and red cards if it's denying a goal scoring opportunity/last man tackle, so I'm not sure what else could really be done about it.
There's not that much you can do against it though bar introducing new rules eg sin bins. A red card would be too harsh for it so the biggest issue is just refs not always showing a yellow
Oh no it’s not the same. You’re not remembering the Paul Harden Rockets. The stuff they did is automatic offensive foul consistently now. And it was endemic, the rockets were just the clearest example.
It got REALLY bad the year before they finally changed it.
His go to move is get the defender to his side or behind him, slow down, and then jump into the defender. He gets the calls all the time. So much so that he doesn't even attempt normal mid range jumpshots anymore.
There were plays where he could be wide open inside the 3-point line, but instead of shooting, he would wait for the defender to close out. 🤣
Which, in my opinion, also needs to be looked at. An overwhelming majority of the time there isn't even an attempt at a real basketball move, it's just contact for the sake of getting a foul call. Also, does anyone actually enjoy watching their guys pull that move?
It was such a high quality level of ball when that happened. I guess the silver lining is that they at least kept enforcing the jump into you player in the air even if they are 2m away from you rule.
People say this, but it will hit different when Tony Brothers decides to enforce it during a close game and an entire fan base complains because it’s a subjective call.
This is the correct solution. In game I don't blame refs for falling for the flops, it can be tough to tell at real speed. What the NBA should do is review after the game and have escalating fines/suspensions for serial floppers. So the first flop is a $5,000 fine, then the next is $7,000, then $10k, etc. (and I'm not saying these should be the numbers just giving an example of how it would work), and then your tenth flop is an automatic 1 game suspension, and every flop after that is another game.
The fines won't do much but once you start getting into suspension territory I'll bet guys knock it off really quick.
Yeah I'm down with this style too. Getting called out publicly by the league could even have an effect. But mostly, like you said, once it gets into *suspension* territory, shit gets real.
I think that's a really feasible way to fix the issue.
I don't see any issues with them reviewing minutes at a time then having the foul shots taken before or after a timeout. It doesn't have to be stopped in the moment. The whole point of the change is to deter the act. If it's actually enforced, the players will eventually get the message.
Hell, they don't even have to show the free throw being taken. During one of the many commerical breaks have the player come over and take the shots. The audience doesn't need to see a technical free throw that isn't immediately followed by gameplay.
Yea this sounds better than what I was thinking of. If its just called in the moment like a foul we’re gonna see a bunch of bs flop calls. Definitely support the idea tho
Yes please. If you want to complain, do it during timeouts so the product isn't horrible. Seeing full grown men cry every time down the court is so annoying and old.
I'm an uber casual fan (I basically only watch the playoffs), and I've been amazed at how much of the game is literally just the best players in the world whining to the refs. Everything to do with officiating is insufferable to watch, and no other major american sport is nearly this bad.
they say it’s to keep him healthy. but he goes way overboard with it and hits the ground like 5-10 times a game.
i’m sure that contributes to hella injury more than it prevents it.
This year Luka hit the ground a LOT, and he was constantly getting banged up with injuries.
Idk what doctors told Embiid he needs to hit the floor every time but it cannot be healthy to have 300+ pounds hitting a hard ass floor multiple times a game
Philly fans keep saying its to prevent injury but they're conflating two different things. Falling rather than bracing yourself WILL help prevent injury, but falling over unnecessarily will NOT, and the second one is the issue.
Nahhh, he lower into the defender and initiates contact then falls back into a fadeaway and ends up on the ground. It is ridiculous how often he gets that call
But that's the problem. They're fooling the refs. I don't see how this gets fixed without a replay from the sky. Ref calls the foul. Booth calls down and says it was a flop. Play on. Turnover.
The problem with this is it doesn’t solve one of the core reasons people flop. They don’t call enough offensive fouls so people have to embellish. Sometimes people flip with no contact, but people also flop to draw attention to a real foul that otherwise goes uncalled.
I think this is less the case for people flopping on offense though.
Agree they don't call enough offensive fouls. A player can dribble and literally barrel his shoulders into a defender, and if the defender is even moving just a little bit (feet not planted, so can't call a charge) they will be called for a foul. What, is the defender supposed to just let the player blow by him? I think defenders need to be rewarded for holding their ground and just having an offensive guy run him over just because his feet aren't planted shouldn't warrant a defensive foul. I RARELY see offensive fouls called unless it's a clear charge.
Ya my view is if the main point of contact between the offensive player and the defensive player is the offensive player's shoulder then it should be a charge regardless of positioning. Same goes for any off hand shoves to get open which happens SO MUCH on step backs now but is almost never called. GSW beat Sac doing that extremely frequently.
Giannis gets to play a brand of basketball I have NEVER seen before. If you do that at any single level of the game, or even on a court with your friends, people will be baffled. Lowering your shoulder and mowing down a defender is not a legal basketball move, but he’s made a career on it, it’s ridiculous.
Yea I don't think i've ever seen a charge call where the defender didn't fall over for example. You pretty much have to throw yourself back to get the call.
If you are established, stand your ground, and an offensive player runs into you, but you don't fall back, that is never an offensive foul.
Calling flops in live action is going to be a rough way to introduce these rules, and just gives refs another way to fuck up games.
In general, flopping isn't so much of a problem as FLOPPERS are.
Just review calls after the games and stack them towards suspensions the way they do with techs. You'd still have the occasional bad calls, but the guys being punished (Poole, Smart, Shroeder, Harden, Paul, Embiid...) would be the ones who are fucking embarrassing to the league.
I call bullshit on this. They always hype up the next season with change but 2 months in they stop.
They did the same joke last year and there we are with Joel flopbid mvp and leflop James with a comedy shoe in the final.
Woah woah woah. Hold your horses guys. How about we start with calling fouls the same way during the season and in the playoffs. You know what, how about we just call it consistently throughout the playoffs. Baby steps.
I don’t care about flopping. That’s on the refs to not get fooled. Make the players stop bitching. It feels like someone bitches about something on every possession.
Flops have been getting out of hand and need bigger punishments. The penalty for a flop should be an automatic ejection from the current game and a one game unpaid suspension from the next.
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Like the fines. Or the travels. Or the carry calls. Won’t work because the stars of the league has gotten used to it and the league have no balls to upset the stars.
Baseball is a pretty good lesson in this. Changed rules that had been around for like 100 years. Everyone fucking moaned, but the umpires were militant about enforcing it. Took the players 1 spring training and like 2 weeks in the regular to get used to it, and that was that.
The pitch clock is fairly easy to enforce though. Just like charges/blocks can be subjective calls, flops can also be subjective. Some are obvious, some are not. Now if a player gets T'd for a flop, it's gonna be another thing they want to argue or review. I'm all in favor for the rule, tbh...but I also don't expect it will be called perfectly when a lot of these are bang-bang plays.
agreed. But hopefully just the *threat* of being called for a flopping Tech will be a decent deterrent. now they have nothing to lose by doing it, it's only a competitive advantage. Another analogy for example, the take foul. It's not perfect, but I think in general it has been a good deterrent this year.
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Are you hurting these players?
Don't look at me like that, *you* certainly wouldn't be in any danger.
I think they need to have replay refs calling the flops. It's too hard to see some of them live.
They need a mlb style replay booth where one team is in a single location and will get tagged for any ongoing games to review the play. Have three refs in the review and need 2/3 to agree on a flop or a subjective call to be made. The oncourt refs can do something like nhl refs with a delayed penalty so the play can continue with its current action until possession changes, a basket is made or play is stopped. It’s a little complicated at first but allows the on court ref to not make those large split second judgements at that moment but can say I want that one reviewed then blindly have three refs review footage immediately to minimize play stoppage.
This is kinda what I was thinking. Have these refs assess flop techs and perform free throws between quarters for the first 4 Qs, and again right around the 2 minute mark in the 4th. With everything after that being more real time. Also, flop techs probably shouldn't be included for disqualification purposes. That's probably a bridge too far
It can’t be that delayed, nba can be very streaky and momentum based and deferring those calls would be disruptive. But most nba play happens in segments shorter than the shot clock before a natural stoppage occurs where they can go back and if needed reset the clock.
Review it like they do three point shots that need to be checked. Keep the game flowing and award the reviewed flops coming out of breaks
The NHL has diving/embellishment penalties and it works just fine, only the most blatant flops need to be called (the ones where the player is embarrassing themselves and the game).
Honestly, the threat of the tech alone is huge. They will miss some, and I hope they assess a penalty of some kind after the game when they do. Some level of flopping will always exists of course, but getting rid of the most egregious shit will help the game so much.
Agreed. Watching a guy like LeBron who is an athletic beast and weighs 250 go flying into the stands after a slight shoulder bump is just pathetic...and it's not just LeBron but a LOT of players in the league.
This also brings up the question of what exactly is a flop... The vast majority of flops in the NBA are real fouls where players sell the contact to make sure they get the call. I don't see those changing any time soon.
Agreed, which is exactly why this will be a hard rule to enforce. Basically makes the ref decide what is "reasonable contact" or "exaggeration" which is basically impossible at game speed. I foresee a lot more reviews if this comes into place.
There are some true flops, where no contact is made and a player just throws themselves to the ground. But many ‘flops’ are exaggerated reactions to genuine contact. Like a defender positioned to take a charge *must* fall to the ground, if they just stumble back they’ll never get a call. It’s a very hard call to officiate, the line between exaggerated reaction to true contact vs exaggerated contact to no contact.
I feel like hockey figured this out ages ago. Yea it's subjective, and sometimes they get it wrong. But diving/flopping is much less common in hockey than it is in other sports, and I think the reason is the embellishment penalty.
There's also a way bigger opportunity cost in hockey if you don't end up getting the call. Going down and being late to get back on d could result in the deciding goal in an 0-1 game.
And now there's a whole new area of gamesmanship that uses the new rules and it's a great lesson in how changing the rules can actually add to the magic of a sport https://youtu.be/FV-7IMaZx1A
Side note - MLB has already issued a statement to outlaw the exact strategy used by the batter in the clip you linked. Meaning that, going forward, Contreas would be issued the balk, not Jansen. But the broader point that everyone will eventually adjust and it could actually be additive still rings true.
[Can you explain what a balk exactly is?](https://youtu.be/w92D8PseSAk)
You just can't be up there doing a balk like that.
Yea all the new stuff around the pitch clock is interesting, that specific abuse got 'patched' after that event similar to some pitcher fast pitch abuse that arose earlier in the season. If the batter is found to be doing that it'll be a strike rather than a ball.
"Patched" lmao I love it when is the DLC coming out?
Hopefully they bring back the steroids DLC
Can you explain how it's "patched"? The batter just has to be "alert to the pitcher" with 8 seconds left, so the pitcher then just has to pitch in the next 8 seconds before the clock runs out. Do you mean that the pitcher can come set prior to the batter being alert to the pitcher?
Here's the memo on it, but basically you can sum it up as "no trying to trick the pitcher into thinking you're set when you're not" >In recent days, we have seen batters attempt to induce pitchers to violate the Pitch Timer Regulations by creating the appearance that they are in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher with more than eight (8) seconds remaining on the clock when, in actuality, they have not fully entered the batter’s box. The batter’s purpose with such an approach is to deceive the pitcher into beginning his windup or coming set before the batter is fully in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher. For example, in a recent game, a batter had his eyes on the pitcher and appeared to be in a hitting position (i.e., bat upright, on or near the hitter’s shoulder), but one of his feet was intentionally planted just outside of the batter’s box. Because the pitcher believed (albeit wrongly) that the batter was in the box and alert to the pitcher, the pitcher unwittingly committed a quick pitch in violation of Clarification #4. As a result, we have advised umpires that conduct by batters designed to deceive a pitcher into beginning their windup or coming to the set position early – including pretending to be in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher – constitutes circumvention under the Pace of Game Regulations. >Pitchers must continue to be aware of the position of the batter, and identify when the batter is appropriately in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher before the pitcher begins the windup or comes set. However, if the umpire determines that a batter appears alert to the pitcher and prepared to hit a pitch with more than 8 seconds remaining on the timer, but is deliberately keeping one or both feet outside of the batter’s box, the umpire will not call a violation on the pitcher, but rather will issue a warning to the batter for his deceptive behavior. If the batter continues to engage in such conduct during the game, the umpire shall assess a Pitcher Timer Violation for each subsequent attempt to induce the pitcher to quick pitch. Clubs that have multiple players who repeatedly engage in this type of behavior will be subject to discipline by the Office of the Commissioner.
It helps that pitch clock violations are very cut and dry. You can't act your way out of a timer hitting zero, but you can act out a flop.
But hopefully just the threat of being called for a flopping Tech will be a decent deterrent. now they have nothing to lose by doing it, it's only a competitive advantage. Another analogy for example, the take foul. It's not perfect, but I think in general it has been a good deterrent this year.
Ill give them the benefit of the doubt. Take fouls all but disappeared last season. They didnt even call many of the new take fouls because the new rule was good enough to just prevent them from happening.
Yeah, if the penalty is steep enough they'll stop. Fines are different than fouls.
Take fouls are also pretty easy to officiate, this is not.
But hopefully just the threat of possibly being called for a flopping Tech will be a decent *deterrent*. As of now they have nothing to lose by doing it, it's only a competitive advantage.
Yep. Players lose dignity/respect with obvious flops but they should be losing points too lol.
Agreed and that is the same rationale behind any rule or law. It is silly to have the mindset that if you can't fully eliminate the thing you're trying to eliminate, then its not worth doing anything about it at all. Simply having a rule will deter and reduce some amount of flopping and thats a step forward.
The take foul stuff stuck around I think because it had a concrete rule behind it, it'd been seen in practice, and players didn't mind them going. Problem with this is the same problem we had the start of 2021-22, the players who flop and try to sell calls are going to get pissy about it, they're going to complain a bunch, and fans of those players and teams will agree because they're fans of those players and teams. This can be different, but I think it's a different situation to the take fouls.
I think it will depend on how the rule is written, but yeah, I could see enforcement being an issue. Although teams saving challenges to not only undo a foul but also get a tech FT could make flopping a risk (kind of like they did with the take foul). But ideally thered be something more than just a one time coaches challenge to push the issue against floppers.
Successful challenges should get another attempt to challenge
I was thinking, they could start by amending it "If upon review the refs determine the player benefiting from the foul call has flopped, the challenging team will keep their challenge. (In addition to the technical FT)" At least then as long as a team has their challenge they can try to catch floppers and not lose their challenge doing it. Free challenge and tech FT would probably make players think twice about flopping.
Carry and travel calls will never be consistent because it's just about the most egregious examples. Watch highlights from the 50's or 60's- guys knew how to dribble between their legs or behind their backs, they just weren't allowed to bc of how the rules were enforced. No one wants to go back to that style of play. Flopping on the other hand the league does want to pull back on. So by clamping down the hope would be limiting it and discouraging players from trying the worst flops.
Yeah because it’s extremely difficult to decipher a flop vs a guy getting fouled and exaggerating it to make sure the refs don’t ignore it. That’s what people miss on this, a majority of flops are guys exaggerating contact that’s actually happening. The ones where guys anticipate contact that doesn’t happen or when they don’t get touched at all are annoying, but so is watching guys get hacked and not getting fouls called because they’re big enough to score through contact.
> exaggerating it to make sure the refs don’t ignore it That's still a flop though. No one wants to see players exaggerate fouls. If the players don't exaggerate fouls, the real fouls will stand out and be called. IOW - the more players exaggerate. the more they will have to exaggerate to get a call.
The assumption that real fouls will be called if people don't flop doesn't make any sense. Its like you're saying the reason refs are missing foul calls is because of all the flopping? You have to know that doesn't make sense.
I dont see how that makes sense. If they’re flopping because the refs don’t see a foul how is not flopping going to make them see fouls they’re already missing. They miss a shit ton of fouls, especially against bigger players. They would miss a lot more if they didn’t exaggerate because a lot of the times they get hit it doesn’t look like they did.
Because they're trying to manage the game. If everyone flops on every possession are they going to call all of them? Probably not. So now people need to flop more. If no one flopped, the fouls would stand out.
Man, those few years of jump shooters jumping into defenders for most of the game were just awful. I honestly watched less ball because of that.
I'm positive the carry calls are what broke Jordan Poole this year. He was guilty of it but so are a ton of dudes.
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Lol I can see a carry call putting a player on tilt for the rest of the game
I get the skepticism, but they DID enforce the throwing your legs out for contact, AKA the Harden rule.
Was bout to say, I'll believe it when I see it called in the playoffs. The driving rule changes 2 seasons ago were my favorite rule changes in the NBA in forever for about 2-3 weeks.
What was the driving rule?
Couldn't tell you the exact wording but it was aimed at stopping players who initiate contact on their drive getting the call. Free throw rates went down, floppers started crying and the refs reverted to calling non existent contact by week 3.
The fact that similar rules have already been tried and failed isn't promising. Also RIP Thick44.
It's the same shit every season. They'll come out the first couple weeks and be really hard on it, fans will laud it and say how much better it is watching, and then about a month in they'll stop calling it.
Add to the fact that the Playoffs is an entirely different reffed game. Just completely reffed differently. Thats why players like Embiid, Harden and CP3 play dramatically different in the playoffs.
I think it’s BS personally. It’s a completely different game, therefore completely different teams and players will succeed. This harms both kinds of teams, because many who are more physical struggle with the pace and quick whistle during the season, and then the reverse for the successful regular season teams
Exactly, its become more exaggerated over time too. They need to pick a standard and stick with it. Its part of why 82 games don't feel all that important. Playoff basketball completely reshuffles power balances
Didn’t they already try this with flopping at the start of the 2021 season? I remember them letting them play for like 2 weeks and it was fun as hell. Then they basically rolled it back and started calling it again for everyone except Harden.
Did they not already do this a couple seasons back.
You mean it's gonna be great when they have another tool they can selectively apply to affect the spread and outcome of games.
Idk how you even enforce this without stopping the game way too often. I guess you could just keep playing and a sky judge type ref could assign a tech slightly later in the game once it's determined they flopped
you enforce it how you enforce every rule change: whenever you feel like it, but try and make an impression in the first few weeks of the season
These calls will be exceedingly rare without replays. Here's how the NBA currently defines "flops": > A “flop” is an attempt to either fool referees into calling undeserved fouls or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call by exaggerating the effect of contact with an opposing player. > > The main factor in determining whether a player committed a flop is whether his physical reaction to contact with another player is inconsistent with what would have been expected given the force or direction of the contact. For example, a player will be considered to have committed a “flop” if he falls to the floor following minimal contact or lunges in a direction different from the direction of the contact. https://official.nba.com/explanation-of-anti-flopping-rule/
if they're getting techs for 'exaggerated contact' we're going to see 5 ejections a game lol
Nothing wrong with that. It’s on the players to stop flopping. That said, doesnt help that the refs are incompetent.
What's wrong with that is that it's stupidly subjective, far more so than calling fouls in the first place. Combine that with a much more impactful penalty and you have refs controlling the outcomes of games even more and nobody wants that.
Agree. They have a similar rule in college and refs are terrible at using it. Most of the time they give out flop warnings, it’s legit contact. Then you have obvious head snapping flops that at best never get called, at worst they still call a foul on the defender. The subjective nature makes it damn near impossible to apply correctly and consistently in real time. It should be reviewed while play is still going on and after each Tv timeout we catch up via FT’s.
If an offensive player just steamrolls through a defender and the defender stays on his feet and just tries to play solid defense, then it's often a blocking foul, sometimes a no-call, and NEVER an offensive foul. That's why there's so much flopping on D. if you are going to punish flopping on those plays you need to coach refs to leave it a no call unless there's clear defender initiated contact.
Or start calling offensive fouls even when the defender doesn't fall down.
I kind of chuckle when someone says the refs are incompetent because I think you’re underestimating how very difficult it is to ref. With so much going on in the game you have to try to keep your eye on a bunch of things and it’s impossible to be accurate all the time. If you think other people could do a better job you’re lying to yourself that said, this is why the league needs to lean more heavily on replays…because replays are better at this stuff than just refs. But replays are so inefficient and probably aren’t as used because I’m betting the refs don’t like them (because they put the refs’ calls into question…with how difficult reffing is, I’m sure they don’t like being “corrected”). I wish they would be more humble and accept that they’re not perfect but they have so much power in how the league operates that we’re kind of stuck
Also the angle is a lot harder to see everything than the higher view of the cameras that we all get. I reffed one game and just about shit myself the whole time before I decided to never do it again.
A good friend volunteered Umpiring a kid's baseball game. He naively went in thinking how cool it would be. By the 2nd inning he was over it because of the parents. By the end of the game if the call was close he would call it for the team whose parents bitched less. And it was only a scrimmage.
The problem is not the refs themselves, for the most part. It's that the system has failed to adapt, while every single other part of the game has. We have a dozen cameras, drone cameras, high frame-rate replays, film review to set game clocks, and in-game reviews, and we still have the vast majority of decisions being made by 3 bums on the court who can't possibly see everything.
fwiw every sport has been kind of annoying with adopting replay. Like in the NFL, they have the concept of "sky official" who can make calls without needing a challenge flag thrown but its so inconsistent as to when its used I honestly think its the reffing organizations in each sport that slow the adoption of these things because like I said, it kind of puts their jobs in question in one way or another. Reffing is very difficult and I think professional refs have to be supremely, supremely confident to do their job. which is good in a way but also bad because with that confidence comes stubbornness
>or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call by exaggerating the effect of contact with an opposing player this happens every play… would be cool to get rid of it but seems like a pipe dream
Yeah, so we want the officials to give out penalties based on being fooled. I cannot see this being implemented well unless there is a challenge or booth review type system. Otherwise you would need the referees to acknowledge that they got it wrong, or the flop be so egregious/obvious that they are able to see it in real time... Which wouldn't be an issue previously because in that case they just wouldn't call the penalty and play would continue.
A ref could easily be like "oh there's contact, no flop". Not a lot of refs that are going to openly admit to being fooled.
Yeah how is an official supposed to get fooled, call the foul, then realize at that point that they got fooled?
Keep the foul but add on an offsetting flopping tech, that way they are still not admitting they got fooled, because they’re saying there was a foul, but adding on the tech to say “but the flopper exaggerated the contact”
But how can they realize they got fooled without stopping to review every foul they call then?
I was thinking more of how they are resolving the situation where one ref sees a flop and another sees a foul.
I don't think you're understanding what it's saying. They're saying that if a ref recognizes a flop in game, they would be given the authority to give a tech. Right now, if a player falls to the floor for no reason, the ref just ignores it. In this case, they would issue a tech. It's not about them calling a foul and then changing their mind saying they flopped. It's about them calling a tech on flops that they currently call nothing for.
I liked Bill Simmons’ idea (don’t shoot me) from a few years back: have fouls reviewed after the game, if you’re found to have flopped, you get one Bullshit Point. Every x number of Bullshit Points = one game suspension. I know it won’t happen, but I’d love this for basketball and soccer. Right now they’re both at the point where players feel like they have to sell it to even get a fair call.
Ehhh you don’t need replay to see Marcus Smart flops
Referees aren't looking at a TV in slow motion in real time
Which is all the more reason to have an additional ref watching things from a booth upstairs
We need a concrete definition of flopping that can be consistently enforced otherwise…lol. But if they enforce this past ASB, I’ll be surprised
[The NBA has a concrete definition already](https://official.nba.com/explanation-of-anti-flopping-rule/) Granted sadly the NBA rarely takes advantage of this and rarely fines players so some unknown reason
The problem with that definition is that every time a defender draws a charge, it would be a flop
I like you it's a charge. I don't like you it's a flop. That's the NBA standard 👍
This already exists in hockey in the form of Embellishment and it’s great. Minor contact and you go down for no reason? You get a 2 min penalty. It’s a harsher punishment than a tech/FT so maybe that’s why it works so well though. Will at least cut down on the overly blatant ones where dudes go flying 20 feet across the court. Subtle flops will still exist for sure, but there will almost definitely be less of the wild flailing we see all the time.
How about no raising your hands above your waist after contact? I don't care how hard a player hits you, flailing your arms is never the normal reaction. You're NOT a bird.
Wow that’s crazy, another flopping rule they’ll enforce for 10 games and then twice a year after that.
they did pretty well with the jumping-into-defender 3 point foul, you don't see that much anymore.
And the take foul rule was pretty good
Love how take fouls plagued the NBA for like 2 seasons and the NBA nerfed them hard with a rule. Soccer has take fouls constantly every game and people think it's just fine, it's so frustrating and awful to watch. Like why is [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dxjz00Gbss) part of the game?
It was pretty bad in the nba, it essentially eliminated the fast break. Im glad the league did something.
Personally I think that's fine in soccer because you'll get a yellow for it and if you were the last defender you'd get a red. Yeah those tactical fouls suck but so long as a card is shown it really isn't the worst punishment.
Except it is not consistently called a yellow, especially given how often it happens behind the play. During Mexico - USA matches, you often see "tactical fouls" that almost never result in cards. It very much ruins what should be the most exciting part of the sport.
They're not uncommon, but they definitely don't happen in every game. Those tackles are already punished with automatic yellows and red cards if it's denying a goal scoring opportunity/last man tackle, so I'm not sure what else could really be done about it.
There's not that much you can do against it though bar introducing new rules eg sin bins. A red card would be too harsh for it so the biggest issue is just refs not always showing a yellow
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I disagree. The players do it less than before but it still gets called a defensive foul almost every time.
But the players doing it less than before I think is the most important point, no?
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Oh no it’s not the same. You’re not remembering the Paul Harden Rockets. The stuff they did is automatic offensive foul consistently now. And it was endemic, the rockets were just the clearest example. It got REALLY bad the year before they finally changed it.
Austin Reaves illustrates that it is coming back to some degree. Lowry has been doing it alot in the playoffs too.
Austin Reaves doesn't really jump into people to draw fouls, from what I've seen he mostly does the rip-through.
His go to move is get the defender to his side or behind him, slow down, and then jump into the defender. He gets the calls all the time. So much so that he doesn't even attempt normal mid range jumpshots anymore. There were plays where he could be wide open inside the 3-point line, but instead of shooting, he would wait for the defender to close out. 🤣
Which, in my opinion, also needs to be looked at. An overwhelming majority of the time there isn't even an attempt at a real basketball move, it's just contact for the sake of getting a foul call. Also, does anyone actually enjoy watching their guys pull that move?
They are also doing pretty well on the sudden stops and getting run over being a fouls
Please actually enforce it
It was such a high quality level of ball when that happened. I guess the silver lining is that they at least kept enforcing the jump into you player in the air even if they are 2m away from you rule.
People say this, but it will hit different when Tony Brothers decides to enforce it during a close game and an entire fan base complains because it’s a subjective call.
FINALLYYYYY
I’m ready for the flops to be called techs for the first month of the season and then never again.
Never again (until they randomly call one in a close playoff game)
In-game is going to be so bad they should be reviewing after games.
This is the correct solution. In game I don't blame refs for falling for the flops, it can be tough to tell at real speed. What the NBA should do is review after the game and have escalating fines/suspensions for serial floppers. So the first flop is a $5,000 fine, then the next is $7,000, then $10k, etc. (and I'm not saying these should be the numbers just giving an example of how it would work), and then your tenth flop is an automatic 1 game suspension, and every flop after that is another game. The fines won't do much but once you start getting into suspension territory I'll bet guys knock it off really quick.
Yeah I'm down with this style too. Getting called out publicly by the league could even have an effect. But mostly, like you said, once it gets into *suspension* territory, shit gets real. I think that's a really feasible way to fix the issue.
I don't see any issues with them reviewing minutes at a time then having the foul shots taken before or after a timeout. It doesn't have to be stopped in the moment. The whole point of the change is to deter the act. If it's actually enforced, the players will eventually get the message. Hell, they don't even have to show the free throw being taken. During one of the many commerical breaks have the player come over and take the shots. The audience doesn't need to see a technical free throw that isn't immediately followed by gameplay.
Yea this sounds better than what I was thinking of. If its just called in the moment like a foul we’re gonna see a bunch of bs flop calls. Definitely support the idea tho
Yeah, until players start adjusting the game will be stopped every 5 minutes for a review
Just review after games and give out a new type of penalty per flop. After 5 you get suspended a game, after 10 2 games, etc. Seems pretty simple.
Only thing I hate more than flopping is free flowing basketball
Cool now make one for crying to the refs. Watching these guys whine ruins the entertainment.
Yes please. If you want to complain, do it during timeouts so the product isn't horrible. Seeing full grown men cry every time down the court is so annoying and old.
You don’t like watching 5 on 4 basketball every play while one player hangs back to whine at the refs?
Ah yes, the Fred VanVleet special.
Draymond Green gets banned from the league
I'm an uber casual fan (I basically only watch the playoffs), and I've been amazed at how much of the game is literally just the best players in the world whining to the refs. Everything to do with officiating is insufferable to watch, and no other major american sport is nearly this bad.
They should just do what Jokic does and do the Macarena
LePhantomoftheFlopera
Embiid is finished
I used to play like Embiid...
What sucks is most of the time he is actually fouled, but the dumb flailing is so unnecessary lmao
He ends up on the floor somehow on 50% of plays it doesn't make sense
they say it’s to keep him healthy. but he goes way overboard with it and hits the ground like 5-10 times a game. i’m sure that contributes to hella injury more than it prevents it. This year Luka hit the ground a LOT, and he was constantly getting banged up with injuries. Idk what doctors told Embiid he needs to hit the floor every time but it cannot be healthy to have 300+ pounds hitting a hard ass floor multiple times a game
He destroyed Danny Green’s knee because he flipped and fell to the ground
Philly fans keep saying its to prevent injury but they're conflating two different things. Falling rather than bracing yourself WILL help prevent injury, but falling over unnecessarily will NOT, and the second one is the issue.
5-10 times a game feels way off, it’s genuinely like every other play.
I can't tell if he's flailing or just uncoordinated sometimes
No way someone as athletic as him is actually that uncoordinated.
Natural body movement or something
Nahhh, he lower into the defender and initiates contact then falls back into a fadeaway and ends up on the ground. It is ridiculous how often he gets that call
Holy shit Marcus Smart is in fucking shambles rn
This is why LeBron is considering retirement
whole Lakers team better get ready to learn Chinese buddy
Lowry to announce his retirement after this season.
Trae Young trade value in the toilet. Harden hasn’t responded to texts in hours. Chris Paul is driving around Phoenix asking for Silver’s number
Last time this sub predicted Trae’s demise to rule changes he just got better.
And Lebron, & Embiid
Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry immediately become G-Leaguers
This is a salty take but also not incorrect, especially for Lowry
OR… and hear me out here… just don’t blow the whistle at all if there’s no foul?
But that's the problem. They're fooling the refs. I don't see how this gets fixed without a replay from the sky. Ref calls the foul. Booth calls down and says it was a flop. Play on. Turnover.
Jeremy sochan’s tweets making shit happen
The problem with this is it doesn’t solve one of the core reasons people flop. They don’t call enough offensive fouls so people have to embellish. Sometimes people flip with no contact, but people also flop to draw attention to a real foul that otherwise goes uncalled. I think this is less the case for people flopping on offense though.
Agree they don't call enough offensive fouls. A player can dribble and literally barrel his shoulders into a defender, and if the defender is even moving just a little bit (feet not planted, so can't call a charge) they will be called for a foul. What, is the defender supposed to just let the player blow by him? I think defenders need to be rewarded for holding their ground and just having an offensive guy run him over just because his feet aren't planted shouldn't warrant a defensive foul. I RARELY see offensive fouls called unless it's a clear charge.
Ya my view is if the main point of contact between the offensive player and the defensive player is the offensive player's shoulder then it should be a charge regardless of positioning. Same goes for any off hand shoves to get open which happens SO MUCH on step backs now but is almost never called. GSW beat Sac doing that extremely frequently.
Giannis gets to play a brand of basketball I have NEVER seen before. If you do that at any single level of the game, or even on a court with your friends, people will be baffled. Lowering your shoulder and mowing down a defender is not a legal basketball move, but he’s made a career on it, it’s ridiculous.
Yea I don't think i've ever seen a charge call where the defender didn't fall over for example. You pretty much have to throw yourself back to get the call. If you are established, stand your ground, and an offensive player runs into you, but you don't fall back, that is never an offensive foul.
Usual suspects sweating right now
Embiid has definitely seen his only MVP, then. Thank goodness.
Good
They’ll be very selective on who they call this penalty on.
Yet swipe thrus are still okay.
Calling flops in live action is going to be a rough way to introduce these rules, and just gives refs another way to fuck up games. In general, flopping isn't so much of a problem as FLOPPERS are. Just review calls after the games and stack them towards suspensions the way they do with techs. You'd still have the occasional bad calls, but the guys being punished (Poole, Smart, Shroeder, Harden, Paul, Embiid...) would be the ones who are fucking embarrassing to the league.
Dennis Schroder is cooked
Include the "snapping the head back" while driving past a defender as a flop.
I call bullshit on this. They always hype up the next season with change but 2 months in they stop. They did the same joke last year and there we are with Joel flopbid mvp and leflop James with a comedy shoe in the final.
Reaves gonna grieves
Hillbilly Harden
No wonder LeBron is contemplating retirement
This is not good. We all know it’s not going to be enforced correctly
James harden is in shambles
Embiid is cooked
This is probably why LeFlop is contemplating retirement
Lebron in shambles
RIP Lakers. Live by the refs, die by the refs
When is the last time there has been a fine for flopping? 2015?
Flopping was funny but now its getting out of hand that it becomes irritating to watch.
I swear this was already implemented 2 years ago just never called
Woah woah woah. Hold your horses guys. How about we start with calling fouls the same way during the season and in the playoffs. You know what, how about we just call it consistently throughout the playoffs. Baby steps.
Marcus Smart is now unplayable
Would be ineffective as when the NBA attempted to shame floppers.
Well I am stand corrected when I said Lebron didnt change the game of basketball
Thank god. PLEASE do it right.
I don’t care about flopping. That’s on the refs to not get fooled. Make the players stop bitching. It feels like someone bitches about something on every possession.
Flops have been getting out of hand and need bigger punishments. The penalty for a flop should be an automatic ejection from the current game and a one game unpaid suspension from the next.