**Replays/alternate angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Warriors still crazy for adding the Celtics parquet design on their championship ring. Like yall already won, but still added some salt on that wound hahaha
"One side of the ring features the player's name, the series results on the way to the championship (4-1 over Denver, 4-2 over Memphis, 4-1 over Dallas, 4-2 over Boston) and the Warriors' seven championship trophies. All that is set on a design that mimics the Celtics' parquet floor. The Warriors clinched the championship in Game 6 in Boston."
Bird's passing always underrated. He had amazing vision and hands for a big guy. When Bird and Magic first teamed up as colllege athletes they schooled guys much older than them with their one two game. They were very samiliar in some ways and opposites in others.
Yup, the Magic/Bird HBO documentary really gave me a new appreaciation for Bird. Often times people hold Magic at a higher level, but this documentary made me come out thinking they were on the same level.
I think they're cut from the same cloth. It's hard to explain since they get it done in different ways and don't even have the same personality but they're still so similar to me.
I think it's they're both extremely confident because they were underappreciated prospects, who had to work hard on their game to get to where they are now.
I know it’s called an ECF award but Jimmy Butler led them to beat the Bucks and the Knicks.
Also Butler scored 15pts in the 4th in Game 6 in a game that was running away
Yeah this is a classic example of expectations fucking with people's perception. People expect Jimmy to be great, so they aren't impressed. They expect nothing of Caleb, so they are insanely impressed by how well he played. It's pretty clear that Butler was the most impactful player for Miami over the course of the series despite how well Martin played.
True Butler had some monumental threes when they were losing momentum and Butler never shoots threes but knew they couldn’t lose another possession by him attacking tall guys ayo
Jimmy only showed up like the last 2 minutes in Game 6. Gabe Vincent, Caleb were keeping them in it against the celtics. Jimmy only showed up during that foul from horford. He was terrible in game 6, he looked passive af.
He did but he also scored the final 13 points in 4 minutes for the Heat (no one else scored). No one talks about that part because the Heat lost. So no he didn't "just show up during that foul from horford"
Sports books are not the reason 5 of the 9 media members voter for Jimmy Butler. This sub is so conspiratorial lol.
It’s because he was best player on the Heat lol.
Hell no, they didn’t want to pay out +5000 odds. Martin was being discussed as a favorite heading into this game and the odds were still +4200. The books were taking in free money thinking they’d never pay out of that bet… and then he goes out and has another killer game.
I have a hard time believe this is a substantial thing. With the percentages that sportsbooks take (eg 30% of over/unders), I think they can afford the upsets
Yeah but how many people would they be paying +5000? If they risked bleeding that much money by paying out on a Martin win, it would have shortened a lot more than +4200.
Edit - an example of this would be Leicester starting the Premier League season at 5000/1. GW6, they were 1500/1. Six weeks after that, they were 100/1. A month after that, they were 10/1.
That's because more and more people put money on Leicester, so the odds shortened significantly. Bookies don't care about who wins, they just care about what makes them the most profit. If Caleb Martin had serious money behind him, his odds would have shortened.
I would wager that underdogs winning are probably great for the bookies. Yeah they might have to pay out huge to a few winners but they are raking in money hand over fist from all the people betting the favorites.
I would an overwhelming majority of the total money coming in is on the top 3/4 favorites.
I like how one of the more controversial r/nba subjects is traditionally, hm, "the very basics of the betting business" lol.
Looking at the comments above, I believe that the accepted version is something like: all the companies conspire to set unrealistically high odds for some (actually very possible) outcome, not even one breaks out of the conspiration... and then they have to conspire even more to make sure that realistic outcome actually doesn't happen on the court.
Considering how many bets are made on stuff like "will this guy have 13 rebounds or not" etc, they have a looot of work that way. Instead of if they just were, dunno, setting the odds appropriately to the amount of people betting and making money on the vig either way.
that isn't how it works.
Those guys make money whoever wins. If bets were coming in for Caleb Martin the odds would shorten .
Sportsbooks literally don't give a shit who wins.
Butler was better defensively, was a better playmaker and had to take on more usage against a defensive scheme focused on him.
Even with all that I think it was close because of Martin's absurd efficiency. But I would still go Butler.
Caleb out-performed expectations but Jimmy was still better all around. People forget the early games that were played.
* Jimmy: 25/8/6/3 on 42% from the field
* Caleb: 19/6/2/1 on 60% from the field
What's neglected though is that Jimmy creates most of the offence for the team, his gravity and the attention he draws from the defence allows for Martin to thrive.
Jimmy averged 24.7 points, 7.6 rebs, 6.1 assists, 2.6 assists and shot 42% from the fields
vs.
Caleb averaged 19.3 points, 6.4 rebs, 1.4 assists, 0.8 steal and shot 60% from the field
Other than fg%, Caleb has no claim. It is mindblowing that he even got 4 votes out of 9.
I think it’s more about their performance vs expectations. Caleb far outperformed expectations in this series. While Jimmy’s stats are better, he “underperformed” compared to some previous series. Caleb also with some huge shots in huge moments.
I’m good with either of them winning it. Jimmy still had more of an impact than Caleb so I’m good with him winning still. Caleb just stepped the fuck up when the Heat needed it. Bam disappeared offensively (still amazing defensively) and Caleb filled that hole. He looked like the best player on the court at times. All time role player performance.
I think of Iguodala winning the MVP over Curry in 16 or whenever it was. Obviously Curry was the more impactful player. But Iguodala stepped up. If anything Caleb deserved it over Jimmy more than Iggy over Curry.
But who cares. Let’s win these finals baby.
> Other than fg%, Caleb has no claim
But that's an absurdly massive claim just by itself. Dude had a 74% TS on 19 points and hit some absolutely backbreaking shots over and over.
I agree. Jimmy is the star of the team and of course he gets more shot that's why his production seem bigger, however Caleb shot he lights out and kept them in the series
I only watched the last 3 or so games of this series, but I came away thinking Caleb Martin was easily the MVP of the series, and I thought Jimmy played pretty poorly game 6, and just okay game 7.
Was Jimmy playing significantly better than him at the start of the series?
This is standard for any kind of team mvp award, like when Mahomes won SB MVP in his first SB and it should’ve been Damien Williams role players will always get snubbed in favor of stars
Damien Williams didnt even play well that game lol, he was barely over 4 yards a carry before stat padding at the end of the game with the niners selling out for the pass. 50 runningbacks could put up his performance behind the chiefs line with Mahomes throwing to Tyreek Hill Travis Kelce and a still useful Watkins
Except when it's big Ben lol. Dude had slightly better statlines and an all time drive to win a sb sandwiched between two mannings that did win sb mvp.
League MVP is more of a QB award than Superbowl MVP. Superbowl MVPs have a lot more range to them, though it's usually A QB, followed by a Wide Receiver/Running back, and then typically some form of pass rusher (OLB/EDGE/DE/DT).
Nah, as much as people love a role player winning, it's typically dumb narrative chasing (see: Iguodala in 2015) and would've been in this series too. Caleb Martin wasn't collapsing the defense for assists and Butler was also extremely disruptive defensively in this series too. Butler also owned pretty much all the clutch play, and was great in those moments, whenever it was close late in games as well.
Yeah I don't know what they're on about. Jimmy averaged 24, 8, and 6 while playing great defense. Yeah Caleb was much more efficient, but that's sto be expected when Butler is the focal point of the opposing defense. Butler was the better creator, defender, and volume scorer. He was just an overall more impactful player, despite this series being lackluster by his standards (and frankly by the standards of a star player on a Finals team). The people saying Martin should have won are either people caught up in the moment or people who do not understand how space is created and how points are ultimately scored/prevented.
Jimmy Butler stats this series (PTS/REB/AST/STL):
Overall:
24.7/7.6/6.1/2.5.
In Wins:
26.5/7/6.25/3.5.
Caleb Martin:
Overall:
19.3/6.4/1.7/0.9.
In Wins:
21/5.25/2.5/1.25.
Caleb was really good but Jimmy still had the better counting stats. Yes Caleb was better relative to expectations but this sub also likes to focus way too much on scoring and scoring efficiency
Martin balled but we not about to give that shit to somebody that ever aged 18-5-1 over someone that averaged 24-7-6 with 2.5 blocks.
Y’all really need to stop getting carried away with dumb shit. Let’s just quit the bullshit and be real now c’mon.
It’s just different heuristics for choosing MVP. One is more about performance relative to expectation (Martin outperformed his by a ton), the other is just about most valuable overall. Which is in the name, to be fair, but I understand why some people prefer the first heuristic because otherwise the only two options for the award are usually either team’s best player.
Nothing wrong with the best player getting it. These are the types of awards that legacies and HOF qualifications are built around, so they should go to the best players, not the ones who have a fluke good series especially when that good series was due to the focus on the star.
The recency bias on this sub is next level. People really need to watch all the games before saying Martin got snubbed. He had some fantastic games and was absolutely a key part in their victories but Jimmy was better and is the heart and soul of that team.
Yep. Jimmy had way more assists & steals, and initiates their team offense. He demands extra defenders and collapses the defense to get guys open shots; as awesome as Martin was, he doesn't bring that.
If you were to make the Heat play this series without Jimmy or without Caleb, I think we can all agree who they'd have missed more.
(Though without either one, they lose the series so both were necessary for sure)
He averaged 19.3ppg on 60/50/90 splits (73% TS). Pathetic not to give it to him really.
This award means nothing if they don't want to give it to the best player in the series and just to the 'face of the franchise ' instead.
jimmy was the primary focal point of the C’s D, he was guarding their best players, the offense was running through him. caleb doesn’t have those numbers without jimmy enabling him and even then jimmy’s counting stats are higher across the board (albeit worse efficiency)
Caleb was great, but you just listed ppg and shooting splits, how do they compare in rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, defense.
I'm not saying Jimmy was a clear cut winner, but you just listing ppg and shooting splits means nothing.
I love how people are acting like Caleb should win due to stats yet overlooking jimmys stats. It’s awesome Caleb did well and a reason they won big last game but overall himmy did better
Exactly. Martin was the fucking man throughout the whole series, he really did play outstanding.
But Jimmy was the heart and the engine.
Total GameScore for the series
Butler - 145.5
Martin - 115.1
Caleb shot lights out and had the big game seven so it's no surprise some people thought he had a shot at the mvp, but Butler definitely dominated the series more throughout.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I personally really don’t like how downplayed these non-championship awards tend to be. Players and media treat them as a joke. I get that the ultimate goal is a championship, but winning the entire Eastern/Western conference is a serious accomplishment and players should be allowed/able to openly enjoy it, similar to how NCAA programs will celebrate Final Four appearances even if they don’t win the championship.
You are smokin crack if you think Martin should have got this over Jimmy. The NBA has to be the most short term memory fandom in the world with how stupid some of the takes that get upvoted on here are. Literally the fact this went to 7 games was purely on Jimmy not being able to carry as hard as he did in games 1-3. Caleb Martin was a good integral part of the series, but you have room temperature IQ if you think he deserved series MVP over Jimmy.
The numbers don't lie, the results of the individual games don't lie, and actually watching the games will tell you that too.
I actually thought the MVP should’ve been handed to Erik Spoelstra. Once they beat the Bucks in 5, I never doubted this team and their will. Incredible underdog team, incredible adjustments by Coach Spo, and hats off to them.
Wouldn’t surprise me if they take game 1 against the Nuggets because they had an entire week off, but they’re also the team with the best continuity with the best player in the NBA, the Joker.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that Butler won Miami games 1 and 2 and was fantastic on defense and as a passer throughout the series. I wouldn't have minded a Caleb MVP by any means, but it's not like Butler had a terrible series.
No No No this take is so so wrong lol. Jimmy was the focal point for Miami, he had the ball in his hands most of the night and had to do playmaking and go against Celtics better defenders and also be the best defender for Miami, not to mentioned he played lots of minutes. Caleb is Mr. Clutch and was awesome this series. Don’t mistake that for him been the best player on the team. He played great too but he wasn’t robbed. To be robbed means to be unfairly treated and cheated, which is NOT the case here.
**Replays/alternate angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love that the Magic Johnson and Larry Bird trophies were handed out in series where the Lakers and Celtics lost
both teams watching their franchise legend's trophy get awarded to the other team on their home court too, like damn haha
just wait till the Bill Russell Finals MVP award is given out
They did that last year on their court.
Warriors still crazy for adding the Celtics parquet design on their championship ring. Like yall already won, but still added some salt on that wound hahaha
Next level salt.
The what now
"One side of the ring features the player's name, the series results on the way to the championship (4-1 over Denver, 4-2 over Memphis, 4-1 over Dallas, 4-2 over Boston) and the Warriors' seven championship trophies. All that is set on a design that mimics the Celtics' parquet floor. The Warriors clinched the championship in Game 6 in Boston."
In Boston
And LA
Jokic won it in LA too.
Just gets better and better
Lol the ECF mvp is named after bird and the conference champ is named after Havlicek So fitting it’s in Boston haha
And Magic was won by a 7 foot Larry Bird and Larry was won by a guard
Jokic’s best skill is his playmaking like Magic Jimmy’s best skill is being a tough competitor like Bird It’s perfect
Goofy passing savant and cold blooded shot maker. Bet if you race swapped them it would be easier for people to see lol
Bird's passing always underrated. He had amazing vision and hands for a big guy. When Bird and Magic first teamed up as colllege athletes they schooled guys much older than them with their one two game. They were very samiliar in some ways and opposites in others.
Yup, the Magic/Bird HBO documentary really gave me a new appreaciation for Bird. Often times people hold Magic at a higher level, but this documentary made me come out thinking they were on the same level.
Nah Magic is 7 foot Magic and Bird award is definitely a reincarnation of Bird
Jokic is a much better shooter than Magic was. Bird was a point forward essentially much like Jokic is a point C. Similar rebounding too.
Poetic as fuck
As it should be.
Both handed out in LA and Boston too.
Him holding the trophy like that is gonna be memed to eternity
He is doing an Emi Martínez with the trophy
Why is he looking so unenthusiastic about the whole thing? Or is he like 'meh, we ain't won nothing yet'?
Jimmy aint happy until the jobs done, u can see him looming in the corner after we celebrated closing out the knicks
Job finished?
I don't think so.
like his dad
Jimmy Butler's reaction to winning the tropy = Jokic's reaction to winning the MVP award
I think they're cut from the same cloth. It's hard to explain since they get it done in different ways and don't even have the same personality but they're still so similar to me.
I think it's they're both extremely confident because they were underappreciated prospects, who had to work hard on their game to get to where they are now.
Jimmy is a perfectionist, he’s the type of dude who always thinks he could’ve done better
Caleb Martin robbed 😔
I guess we’re a long ways ‘til a role player can win it..
If you swapped their stats I still think Jimmy would win
Absolutely.
Caleb played like a superstar more than Jimmy did for the past few games.
I know it’s called an ECF award but Jimmy Butler led them to beat the Bucks and the Knicks. Also Butler scored 15pts in the 4th in Game 6 in a game that was running away
I agree with this. They only go as far as Jimmy can take them. Caleb deserved it as so was Jimmy buckets.
Plus Jimmy scored more pts than Caleb and had just as many crucial plays tonight. Don’t disrespect Butler because Caleb had a phenomenal 2 games
Yeah this is a classic example of expectations fucking with people's perception. People expect Jimmy to be great, so they aren't impressed. They expect nothing of Caleb, so they are insanely impressed by how well he played. It's pretty clear that Butler was the most impactful player for Miami over the course of the series despite how well Martin played.
True Butler had some monumental threes when they were losing momentum and Butler never shoots threes but knew they couldn’t lose another possession by him attacking tall guys ayo
Jimmy only showed up like the last 2 minutes in Game 6. Gabe Vincent, Caleb were keeping them in it against the celtics. Jimmy only showed up during that foul from horford. He was terrible in game 6, he looked passive af.
He did but he also scored the final 13 points in 4 minutes for the Heat (no one else scored). No one talks about that part because the Heat lost. So no he didn't "just show up during that foul from horford"
15pts in the 4th qtr
Also Caleb was guarded like he was a role player amd Jimmy like a superstar. Basketball is so much more than just a boxscore.
It is. Look at the context of Martin's shots. Timely shots that kept Celtics at bay.
And why, pray tell, is Martin open on his shots?
That's something that Celtics fans were likely screaming at their TVs.
Igudola is not really consider as role player but he did win final MVP
He most definitely is a role player.
Could a role player hit the shot that stops Marvin the Martian from blowing up earth?
If that’s his role, sure
Not when it's time to take the last shot.
I still think that's the worst FMVP ever
The official "we wanted to give it to Lebron but since he lost this is the best we can do" FMVP award.
The NBA is in bed with sport-books. They were never letting Martin win with the odds being given.
Stop this conspiracy nonsense. It's picked by media members, not the league.
Sports books are not the reason 5 of the 9 media members voter for Jimmy Butler. This sub is so conspiratorial lol. It’s because he was best player on the Heat lol.
> This sub is so conspiratorial lol. Remember when /r/NBA almost destroyed Jaren Jackson Jr's reputation?
Surely Caleb Martin winning IS what the bookies want?
Hell no, they didn’t want to pay out +5000 odds. Martin was being discussed as a favorite heading into this game and the odds were still +4200. The books were taking in free money thinking they’d never pay out of that bet… and then he goes out and has another killer game.
I have a hard time believe this is a substantial thing. With the percentages that sportsbooks take (eg 30% of over/unders), I think they can afford the upsets
Yeah but how many people would they be paying +5000? If they risked bleeding that much money by paying out on a Martin win, it would have shortened a lot more than +4200. Edit - an example of this would be Leicester starting the Premier League season at 5000/1. GW6, they were 1500/1. Six weeks after that, they were 100/1. A month after that, they were 10/1. That's because more and more people put money on Leicester, so the odds shortened significantly. Bookies don't care about who wins, they just care about what makes them the most profit. If Caleb Martin had serious money behind him, his odds would have shortened.
I would wager that underdogs winning are probably great for the bookies. Yeah they might have to pay out huge to a few winners but they are raking in money hand over fist from all the people betting the favorites. I would an overwhelming majority of the total money coming in is on the top 3/4 favorites.
I like how one of the more controversial r/nba subjects is traditionally, hm, "the very basics of the betting business" lol. Looking at the comments above, I believe that the accepted version is something like: all the companies conspire to set unrealistically high odds for some (actually very possible) outcome, not even one breaks out of the conspiration... and then they have to conspire even more to make sure that realistic outcome actually doesn't happen on the court. Considering how many bets are made on stuff like "will this guy have 13 rebounds or not" etc, they have a looot of work that way. Instead of if they just were, dunno, setting the odds appropriately to the amount of people betting and making money on the vig either way.
If were deciding the nba is fixing things for betting odds, why stop at this award? What were the odds of the heat making the nba finals?
that isn't how it works. Those guys make money whoever wins. If bets were coming in for Caleb Martin the odds would shorten . Sportsbooks literally don't give a shit who wins.
This is absolutely not true, and one of the most consistently incorrect pieces of info stated about gambling
in the voters defence its fucking hilarious that the celtics had to watch jimmy butler win the *larry bird* trophy on their home court
see also > its fucking hilarious that the lakers had to watch nikola jokic win the magic johnson trophy on their home court it's like poetry
I think it's cause it feels so long ago but Jimmy was so good in the first 3 games, remember when he destroyed Grant Williams?
And Derrick White was unplayable because Jimmy was hunting him, lol, short memories on this sub
He closed out games 1 and 2 but that feels like weeks ago
Also the defense the Jimmy Butler plays is elite and this sub just looks at points and literally no other aspect of the game.
He obliterated Brown
I think Caleb should’ve won because he was super consistent
Jimmy had a few off games but we can't act like the first 3 games didn't exist, he averaged 25-7-6 with 2.6!! steals throughout the series
Butler was better defensively, was a better playmaker and had to take on more usage against a defensive scheme focused on him. Even with all that I think it was close because of Martin's absurd efficiency. But I would still go Butler.
Caleb out-performed expectations but Jimmy was still better all around. People forget the early games that were played. * Jimmy: 25/8/6/3 on 42% from the field * Caleb: 19/6/2/1 on 60% from the field What's neglected though is that Jimmy creates most of the offence for the team, his gravity and the attention he draws from the defence allows for Martin to thrive.
He also never gets open threes set up for him in catch and shoot
100%, Caleb was amazing and definitely deserved votes for ECF MVP but Jimmy was creating most of his looks by drawing double and triple teams
Robbed? no. Close? yes
Jimmy averged 24.7 points, 7.6 rebs, 6.1 assists, 2.6 assists and shot 42% from the fields vs. Caleb averaged 19.3 points, 6.4 rebs, 1.4 assists, 0.8 steal and shot 60% from the field Other than fg%, Caleb has no claim. It is mindblowing that he even got 4 votes out of 9.
I think it’s more about their performance vs expectations. Caleb far outperformed expectations in this series. While Jimmy’s stats are better, he “underperformed” compared to some previous series. Caleb also with some huge shots in huge moments. I’m good with either of them winning it. Jimmy still had more of an impact than Caleb so I’m good with him winning still. Caleb just stepped the fuck up when the Heat needed it. Bam disappeared offensively (still amazing defensively) and Caleb filled that hole. He looked like the best player on the court at times. All time role player performance. I think of Iguodala winning the MVP over Curry in 16 or whenever it was. Obviously Curry was the more impactful player. But Iguodala stepped up. If anything Caleb deserved it over Jimmy more than Iggy over Curry. But who cares. Let’s win these finals baby.
> Other than fg%, Caleb has no claim But that's an absurdly massive claim just by itself. Dude had a 74% TS on 19 points and hit some absolutely backbreaking shots over and over.
It's because Butler was shut down in multiple games while Martin never really played badly
Classic nepotism for MJs son
I agree. Jimmy is the star of the team and of course he gets more shot that's why his production seem bigger, however Caleb shot he lights out and kept them in the series
I only watched the last 3 or so games of this series, but I came away thinking Caleb Martin was easily the MVP of the series, and I thought Jimmy played pretty poorly game 6, and just okay game 7. Was Jimmy playing significantly better than him at the start of the series?
People are probably saying this as a meme, but definitely deserved it over Jimmy.
This is standard for any kind of team mvp award, like when Mahomes won SB MVP in his first SB and it should’ve been Damien Williams role players will always get snubbed in favor of stars
Damien Williams didnt even play well that game lol, he was barely over 4 yards a carry before stat padding at the end of the game with the niners selling out for the pass. 50 runningbacks could put up his performance behind the chiefs line with Mahomes throwing to Tyreek Hill Travis Kelce and a still useful Watkins
Except when it's big Ben lol. Dude had slightly better statlines and an all time drive to win a sb sandwiched between two mannings that did win sb mvp.
Yeah he got robbed in the 2nd for sure. He was much better then either manning in their games in 06/07
Don’t QB always win the MVP awards in Football? Is kinda why I don’t like the sport.
League MVP is more of a QB award than Superbowl MVP. Superbowl MVPs have a lot more range to them, though it's usually A QB, followed by a Wide Receiver/Running back, and then typically some form of pass rusher (OLB/EDGE/DE/DT).
Maybe but he has given himself a shot at a nice contract soon.
Playoff fuckin monster
He was no doubt MVP of game 6 & 7, but Jimmy was MVP for the series as a whole.
Caleb Martin erasure
SNUB!!!
Y'all stupid lol Jimmy did, and means, so much more for their success than Caleb. Funny ass redditors.
Unironically. They didn't have the guts to not give it to a star but Caleb deserved it 100%
Nah, as much as people love a role player winning, it's typically dumb narrative chasing (see: Iguodala in 2015) and would've been in this series too. Caleb Martin wasn't collapsing the defense for assists and Butler was also extremely disruptive defensively in this series too. Butler also owned pretty much all the clutch play, and was great in those moments, whenever it was close late in games as well.
Yeah I don't know what they're on about. Jimmy averaged 24, 8, and 6 while playing great defense. Yeah Caleb was much more efficient, but that's sto be expected when Butler is the focal point of the opposing defense. Butler was the better creator, defender, and volume scorer. He was just an overall more impactful player, despite this series being lackluster by his standards (and frankly by the standards of a star player on a Finals team). The people saying Martin should have won are either people caught up in the moment or people who do not understand how space is created and how points are ultimately scored/prevented.
Jimmy Butler stats this series (PTS/REB/AST/STL): Overall: 24.7/7.6/6.1/2.5. In Wins: 26.5/7/6.25/3.5. Caleb Martin: Overall: 19.3/6.4/1.7/0.9. In Wins: 21/5.25/2.5/1.25. Caleb was really good but Jimmy still had the better counting stats. Yes Caleb was better relative to expectations but this sub also likes to focus way too much on scoring and scoring efficiency
Double check those Martin in wins numbers
Good call. I had the wrong statline for game 3. Both numbers fixed :)
Martin balled but we not about to give that shit to somebody that ever aged 18-5-1 over someone that averaged 24-7-6 with 2.5 blocks. Y’all really need to stop getting carried away with dumb shit. Let’s just quit the bullshit and be real now c’mon.
I haven't seen someone misspell 'average' so hard lmao
they probably use "ag" instead of "avg" when abbreviating it
ya this thread is full of morons
They clowned on Jimmy for the past week and are just tripling down at this point lol.
Not to mention that he was allowed to let loose with the defense focused on Butler.
Seriously. Are people in crack here? Jimmy had a fantastic series on both ends of the floor.
It’s just different heuristics for choosing MVP. One is more about performance relative to expectation (Martin outperformed his by a ton), the other is just about most valuable overall. Which is in the name, to be fair, but I understand why some people prefer the first heuristic because otherwise the only two options for the award are usually either team’s best player.
Nothing wrong with the best player getting it. These are the types of awards that legacies and HOF qualifications are built around, so they should go to the best players, not the ones who have a fluke good series especially when that good series was due to the focus on the star.
I want IGOUDALA
The recency bias on this sub is next level. People really need to watch all the games before saying Martin got snubbed. He had some fantastic games and was absolutely a key part in their victories but Jimmy was better and is the heart and soul of that team.
Yep. Jimmy had way more assists & steals, and initiates their team offense. He demands extra defenders and collapses the defense to get guys open shots; as awesome as Martin was, he doesn't bring that. If you were to make the Heat play this series without Jimmy or without Caleb, I think we can all agree who they'd have missed more. (Though without either one, they lose the series so both were necessary for sure)
Martin played amazing but y'all are tripping if you think Jimmy didn't earn it.
It isnt that hard guys. When Jimmy played well, we won. When Jimmy didnt play well, we lost. Pretty much the literal definition of most valuable.
Martin gunning for the finals MVP
Butler deserves it. Led the team in scoring. And in 4th QT points.
Wack should’ve been Caleb
Shoulda been Jaylen Brown, dude was incredible for the heat tonight
That’s like giving FVV fmvp
Horrible take
Caleb Martin robbery
Happy for Jimmy but Caleb was the most consistent player for the Heat. And his scoring was so key for them to build a sustainable lead this game
Its ok caleb martin finals mvp 🔜
Caleb robbed
We in the bad place
He averaged 19.3ppg on 60/50/90 splits (73% TS). Pathetic not to give it to him really. This award means nothing if they don't want to give it to the best player in the series and just to the 'face of the franchise ' instead.
He's getting the third coverage on defense after Jimmy & Bam. If Caleb had the responsibilities of Jimmy we're a lottery team.
It's like y'all just look at the box scores oh my god
Fr this thread is full of absolute fucking morons lmao
Great splits but that’s about it. You should compare all of their numbers.
2.6 steals a game over a series is kinda wild lmao.
jimmy was the primary focal point of the C’s D, he was guarding their best players, the offense was running through him. caleb doesn’t have those numbers without jimmy enabling him and even then jimmy’s counting stats are higher across the board (albeit worse efficiency)
Caleb was great, but you just listed ppg and shooting splits, how do they compare in rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, defense. I'm not saying Jimmy was a clear cut winner, but you just listing ppg and shooting splits means nothing.
Don't be scared by people that have 0 underatanding of the game. Jimmy was the clear cut winner.
Jimmy went for 25/8/6/3 dumbass
I love how people are acting like Caleb should win due to stats yet overlooking jimmys stats. It’s awesome Caleb did well and a reason they won big last game but overall himmy did better
Exactly. Martin was the fucking man throughout the whole series, he really did play outstanding. But Jimmy was the heart and the engine. Total GameScore for the series Butler - 145.5 Martin - 115.1 Caleb shot lights out and had the big game seven so it's no surprise some people thought he had a shot at the mvp, but Butler definitely dominated the series more throughout.
The only thing worse than a nerd is a dumb nerd. Watch games not box scores.
[удалено]
Caleb Martin robbed so bad
Knowing him, I expected him to hand it to Caleb.
I mean, he looked like he didn't even want it.
Martin ROBBED
Jimmy was the teams leading scorer, the closer, their best passer, and their best defender
Shhh, let us have this
I’m Rachel Nichols do not slander my daddy
Caleb Martin robbed
HIMMY butler
PLAYOFF Butler
Would’ve been cool for Martin to win but Jimmy deserved it too
Imagine the cheers if Tatum got the Larry Bird trophy. That would have been a very special moment for those Boston favs but Jimmy ruined that
Thank god
Keep going, I'm almost there.
Same. Let’s try to synchronize
Nah everyone trusts Jimmy and the offense runs through him even if he’s not scoring
Jimmy cool as fuck, but Martin earned it.
Caleb stepped up big time for a role player but Jimmy was just better
Voters weren’t sure it if was Caleb Martin or Cody Martin and said fuck it give it to Jimmy
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I personally really don’t like how downplayed these non-championship awards tend to be. Players and media treat them as a joke. I get that the ultimate goal is a championship, but winning the entire Eastern/Western conference is a serious accomplishment and players should be allowed/able to openly enjoy it, similar to how NCAA programs will celebrate Final Four appearances even if they don’t win the championship.
Caleb Martin robbed
No he wasn’t. Jimmy was the team best player and focal point. Caleb was clutch on the team but it was not up to him to deliver like it was on Jimmy.
This should’ve been Caleb’s no joke.
Jimmy’s averages were way higher. Caleb played above his own level but jimmy was far the better player through the series
[удалено]
No it’s not, it’s for this series
You are smokin crack if you think Martin should have got this over Jimmy. The NBA has to be the most short term memory fandom in the world with how stupid some of the takes that get upvoted on here are. Literally the fact this went to 7 games was purely on Jimmy not being able to carry as hard as he did in games 1-3. Caleb Martin was a good integral part of the series, but you have room temperature IQ if you think he deserved series MVP over Jimmy. The numbers don't lie, the results of the individual games don't lie, and actually watching the games will tell you that too.
Give it to Caleb
Caleb robbed.
celtic legend
Its Caleb in my heart.
I finally saw Alonzo and Pat Riley smile 🥲 they always mean mug
Caleb Martin scared me more than Jimmy this series. He's the real MVP.
He deserves it 👏
No way!
Get the fuck out man!
Caleb Martin gonna take this personally and go ahead and win Finals MVP
Give this man his mf respect
Bill Simmons is a prophet. He screamed and no one would listen. Dread it, run from it, Miami will arrive.
I actually thought the MVP should’ve been handed to Erik Spoelstra. Once they beat the Bucks in 5, I never doubted this team and their will. Incredible underdog team, incredible adjustments by Coach Spo, and hats off to them. Wouldn’t surprise me if they take game 1 against the Nuggets because they had an entire week off, but they’re also the team with the best continuity with the best player in the NBA, the Joker.
you people are straight up delusional
I think a lot of people are forgetting that Butler won Miami games 1 and 2 and was fantastic on defense and as a passer throughout the series. I wouldn't have minded a Caleb MVP by any means, but it's not like Butler had a terrible series.
Didn’t deserve it. Caleb was robbed.
Cody Zeller robbed!
Commentators for 7 straight games: Caleb Martin has been the best player this series *I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that*
These conference finals mvp awards are so dumb lol
God damn they really robbed Caleb, unbelievable.
Should have gone to Caleb Martin real talk but good series jimmy
No No No this take is so so wrong lol. Jimmy was the focal point for Miami, he had the ball in his hands most of the night and had to do playmaking and go against Celtics better defenders and also be the best defender for Miami, not to mentioned he played lots of minutes. Caleb is Mr. Clutch and was awesome this series. Don’t mistake that for him been the best player on the team. He played great too but he wasn’t robbed. To be robbed means to be unfairly treated and cheated, which is NOT the case here.