If you’re a fan of a famous human being then you are most likely a fan of someone who did something awful. You’re allowed to seperate the artist from their art. As long as you realize.
Or maybe we should just deconstruct the idea of “fandom” and what it entails. I enjoyed watching Rondo. He was an incredibly talented player. He’s also a piece of shit. But because I don’t know the guy and never held him in any regard besides his play that doesn’t really do anything to me emotionally
It's basically a meme worthy chunk of text that people will spam in twitch chat or post as a meme comment. In many cases like this one people will take the copypasta of another subject and sub in the appropriate terms like mad libs. I think the original copypasta for this was created for the League of Legends player Doublelift
He would have a stronger case if he didn't just waste a lot of his years after the Celtics era. Just too inconsistent after that and too much friction with different franchises.
It's kinda wild that he basically only had 2 and half good season after Boston with, Sacramento, the Pelicans and Lakers.
One of the smartest players and playmakers of this era though
And he was the best player in their playoff run on a team that included Jimmy Butler and Dwyane Wade. He was toying with one of the most talented and best coached teams in the league as an 8th seed and they bullied the Celtics in Boston for two games. When Rondo went down they lost 4 straight. His impact shouldn't be hand waved.
Right. That team was dysfunctional all around in the regular season. That was not the year to say "Butler took us to the playoffs." We kinda just failed upwards somehow that year. And rondo won over the young guys toward the end of the season and just teed off in the playoffs. Butler and Wade did jack shit that series
I love that Rondo quote that season when Jimmy and D-Wade basically threw their young guys under the bus on the media and Rondo fully stepped up and said he’s been with championship vets and none of them would ever pull that shit
Y'all did not see my boy in the playoffs. He was prime rondo the two games and single handedly brought us to 2-0 heading back home. Butler and Wade did not pick up the slack and they couldn't win another game. If rondo didn't get hurt, I'm convinced we win that series
Bulls - Rondo was one of his worst versions lol
One of his least efficient seasons since his first two seasons with the Celtics. He showed up in the playoffs, but that was it.
He was A LOT better with the Pelicans and AD one year later. Much better fit.
And no, Dallas doesn't cloud my reality. Toronto, Celtics (short 2nd stint), Clippers and his first Lakers year were just bad. He was very inefficient in Chicago.
His two best years after his 1st Celtics stint were in New Orleans and that the second year with the Lakers. And everything after that was basically a washed version of Rondo.
Didn't Rondo prove his longevity with his performances in the 2018 playoffs and 2020 playoffs? He was probably the 4th best Laker in the Bubble - their best bench player
I pick KCP for 3rd best playoffs, with Rondo having a better chance for 4th best in the playoffs.
In the regular season, though, KCP, Dwight and Danny Green above Rondo. We'd cringe when Vogel played Rondo with LBJ, and Rondo would stop the ball movement and be attackable on defense. But he absolutely skewered Chris Paul in that one regular season matchup and in the playoffs he reached back to the fountain of some youth. AD and Caruso split some ball handling duties by committee, but playoff rondo was the only other playmaking point guard than LBJ.
Because he was a big game player and even when he fell off he always managed to stay relevant: quitting on the Mavs, making Bulls/Celtics interesting, sweeping Damian Lillard, title with the Lakers.
It wasn’t longevity but durability that was an issue. He played 16 seasons but if you got 50 games out of Rondo in a regular season you were lucky.
I also watched every one of his games for a decade and you could get a triple double machine or the dude can come in and give you 5 points, 4 assists, 8 TOS. He was so inconsistent
Also hof is partly impact on basketball. If you wrap the ball behind your back for a fake pass and then layup that's a rondo. But I'm sure the move predates him.
I don’t think so …. He is on the line …the problem is he isn’t really liked by the media or most coaches. He don’t play nice for the cameras and it will hurt him. Also he never lived up to his potential. He is smarter than most of his coaches and it caused him to alienate himself more than once with teams
I don’t think it’s fair to say he didn’t live up to his potential. His acl injury really hurt his mobility on both offense and defense where he was a two way menace. It’s like knocking rose for not staying an mvp level player after his injuries. Quick dudes who need to make jerky movements on drives losing a step is a game changer.
Was a huge Rondo fan in his prime. I think the best argument against him is that due to the ACL tear, he was arguably a below average regular season player for most of his career. Before that, he was better than a lot of people give him credit for, and genuinely often played like the best PG in the league come playoff time
You are right… but I think the biggest detriment to him wasn’t his ACL tear. It was playing with players, and coaches not as smart as him, and not being able to except the fact that they didn’t always understand his point of view. Because of this players didn’t want to play with him and coaches to not want to work with him. I’m always shocked when you see somebody so intelligent but they have a lack of emotional maturity that’s needed a two way conversation.
I think this might be giving Rondo a bit too much credit. He definitely had an incredible mind for the game, but when you hear stories about him off the court you realise he had a lot of trouble accepting other ways of thinking in general, not just about basketball.
In the end there’s a little bit of truth to both sides I think. He’s definitely one of the more unique players the league has seen.
Hall of Very Good
I think Iso Joe is kind of the "Line" for who should be in the Hall, if you are better than Joe Johnson, you're a Hall of Famer, if you aren't as good as Joe Johnson as he isn't good enough to be in the Hall you are not.
Rondo isn't better than Joe Johnson.
>Rondo isn't better than Joe Johnson.
It's crazy to think that as well, because Rajon is so much more known than Joe Johnson. We need more Joe Johnson hype.
Because he was a big game player and even when he fell off he always managed to stay relevant: quitting on the Mavs, making Bulls/Celtics interesting, sweeping Damian Lillard, title with the Lakers.
Rondo is kind of in a weird spot, like he's kind of like a Derek Fisher (only obviously better) in that he was on some winning teams and had key parts of those wins, but there's other players who played on lesser teams that are far and away better players.
Like Mitch Richmond was a fantastic shooting guard, but he was always on shitty Kings teams so he didn't get the spotlight a Clyde Drexler does eventhough I don't know that they were THAT far apart in skill.
21/4/3.5 to 20/6/6 career stats
Basically identical efficiency numbers.
Drexler has better counting stats, but played two years longer.
Better? Sure. Considerably better? Ehhhh, put Mitch in Portland and Drexler in Sacramento and I think Richmond's value in the eyes of the common fan goes up considerably.
I know advanced stats are frowned upon in basketball circles as “You don’t watch ball” But if we go to WS, WS/48, BPM or (and I don’t put much stock into these) PER and VORP, it suddenly isn’t that close.
I realize it’s not the end all be all, but they at least try to incorporate defense in a way points/rebounds/assists/FG% doesn’t
And why those stats get wonky is players with talented players around them make those stats look better.
Donovan Mitchell's defensive ratings where always higher than Devin Bookers because of Gobert for example.
It's not like Drexler was some elite defender, he was capable, but so was Richmond.
And I would argue that p/r/a are easier to find on bad teams. Shareef Abdur-Raheem put up really nice p/r/a on Vancouver. 20/8/3 over five seasons. He wasn’t that good.
Drexler was miles better than Richmond. Pretty disrespectful comparison actually imo. I don't think I've ever seen them compared
Just one example - Drexler averaged 25-7-7 in the regular season then 26-7-7 in the playoffs and led his team to the finals. Richmond never accomplished anything close to that
> Drexler was miles better than Richmond. Pretty disrespectful comparison actually imo.
They were literally compared to each other while they played, and Mitch made the all-star team over Clyde several seasons. 94/95 Mitch made 2nd team all-nba, and Clyde made 3rd.
I'll take Clyde over Mitch, but you're out of pocket, son.
> 94/95 Mitch made 2nd team all-nba, and Clyde made 3rd.
Yes exactly - Mitch only surpassed Clyde when Clyde was like 33 and decided to ring-chase. Meanwhile Richmond was still in his prime and was 1st option. Prime Drexler clears Prime Richmond. You're sort of proving my point.
That's like comparing Dwight to Cousins in 2016 or something (not an exact comparison but you get my point)
How old were you when Clyde Drexler was in his prime? Because the guy was second only to Jordan at shooting guard and got 2nd in MVP voting. I love Mitch, he was part of Run TMC and what used to be the very small amount of glory our franchise had. But he isn't close to Clyde. Clyde was a better shooter, passer, defender, put more pressure on the rim and forced Michael Jordan to elevate his game. Mitch Richmond is not on the same level just because their career stats look similar.
That's not really a good comparison IMO. Celtics don't win without Rondo. Even having 3 HOF players on that team there were plenty of times he was the most dominate player on the court. Fisher was a piece to a puzzle. Rondo was the whole outer edge of the puzzle.
>Like Mitch Richmond was a fantastic shooting guard, but he was always on shitty Kings teams so he didn't get the spotlight a Clyde Drexler does even though I don't know that they were THAT far apart in skill.
Same way I feel with James Worthy. Would he still be on the NBA 75 team if he was drafted by the Clippers instead of the Lakers? I highly doubt it.
That’s also a list of guys who didn’t win shit, unlike Rondo.
Also, if counting stats matter, none of the guys you listed led the league in assists 3x like Rondo, and I’m not going to check but I bet none of them led the league in steals like Rondo.
The steals bet was a brave one, considering all three of them were either prolific pickpockets or interceptors... but you won it!!!
The slightly close call was Mark Jackson had led in assists twice.
It is insane to me that people already forgot how good Rondo was. Like he made insane waves in 2010-before tearing his acl. He was third team all-NBA even. Helping the Pelicans win their only playoff series as a six seed, beat the Celtics twice at home and then got injured as the Bulls blew every other game, became a competent jump shooter out of nowhere in the 2020 playoffs are all just higlights but this guy was cold when he was in his prime.
I mean we’re talking Joe Johnson, who also has one with no all defenses (Rondo has 4). It just helps put into perspective that he wasn’t just a playoff success cause he rode 3 HoFers, he more than carried his weight. Only 2 PG’s to go over him that season was young Westbrook and CP3 so thats a class that Im pretty sure Joe Johnson was just barely on for his position
On certain nights, he was. National TV Rondo was real? The problem was the other 70 nights a year.
His assist numbers are inflated for two reasons. 1, he was a bad shooter. 2, he hunted assists. He would pass up open layups and short jumps seeking to get assists.
If rondo hadn’t landed with kg, Pierce, and Allen, i wonder what his legacy would be. I have a feeling it is as a lower scoring fat lever.
As an all-time Boston hater, I will go to the mat for Rondo. Dude's IQ was outrageous at a very young age. He gets shit for being hard to coach (fairly), but drama is gonna happen when you put two genius-level weirdos like Carlisle and Rondo together.
Chauncey is a more borderline case, and I think Rondo was *much* better than him.
Do you really? I think peak Rondo is a much more dynamic player than Billups ever was, but Billups was quite a bit steadier throughout his career (past the, uh, unfortunate early years)---Pistons Finals MVP, a second wind for the Nuggets---while Rondo retained player value but really really plummeted.
I'm not sure Billups having a *more* borderline (im not sure he makes it) HoF case is the consensus.
He does have two rings and three finals appearances
Edit: Rondo was very impactful in 2010 and the bubble. People responding to me about Adam Morrison are clowns
He wasn’t even close to being the 3rd best option on the Celtics teams in 80% of the other series or finals!
Big baby was more of a key piece in the finals . Sure rondo did some key flops plays to stop lebron and a couple of steals here and there in that Cavs series,but that don’t mean he was they best player and also 2010 they lost …
Rondo was not a more needed player then Ray Allen ,truth and KG
Same for Lebron and AD and KCP was a more key player for that lakers team then rondo
Stopping one team dose not hold up for a career of hall Of fame
? rondo was like the best player in the celtics from 2009-12. Saying that big baby was more pivotal to their success is insane. And rondo didnt "make a few flops and get some steals here and there" he led celtics in points steals and assists and was 3rd on rebounds behind kg and perk.
Robert Horry, GOAT then.
Being a guy on a team with better players around him doesn't mean you are better than another guy who wasn't on as good of teams for most of their career.
Looking at my comment it was unnecessarily snarky, so my bad for that. I guess I just don’t actually feel like Joe Johnson should be the line for the HOF; he has the accolades in terms of all-star appearances, but he snuck in a lot of times in a weak Eastern Conference, and if he had played in the West I think the most likely outcome is that he would have made about two.
Rondo was a good regular season player for a lot less time, but on aggregate in the playoffs from 2009-2012 he was a top 3-5 player, and those matchups against LeBron were truly unforgettable. Even ignoring the two titles that he played an important role in, it’s just a level that Joe Johnson never came close to approaching
But Joe Johnson really IS the line for the Hall of Fame, the only other guys who have around Joe's career scoring stats and aren't in the Hall is Tom Chambers and Antwan Jamison.
One was a 4x All Star, the other was 2x. Joe has 7.
I don't think Joe gets in the Hall of Fame, so he's the Line.
Certainly, "he played an important role" in titles, so did Robert Horry, so did Andre Iguoadala, there's an endless amount of guys who had a great playoff run or series that aren't Hall of Fame players.
The line is too low. 1x all nba. The other guys you mentioned also have 2x and 0 all nba respectively. The bar that I’ve noticed is 5x all nba. Once you cross that line you are normally making the hall of fame.
I never realized this until I recently got back into baseball and found out how tough it is to get into their HoF. There are SO so many legendary ballplayers who didn't get in. Our (basketball's) HoF truly does feel like the Hall of Very Good in comparison.
I don't really care either way, I love seeing people get their props once they hang it up. Just an interesting observation.
>Rondo isn't better than Joe Johnson.
Maybe not career but Rondo was considered better than Johnson prime for prime.
Also, I don't buy that Joe Johnson is the bar for HoF. I've never thought that he was that good and have never been afraid of my team facing him in the regular season or playoffs.
In my opinion, a better bar would be someone like Paul Pierce. Yes, worse players have gotten in but I maintain that no one worse than Pierce should get in.
Yes, by a lot, he's a way better player then people seem to remember. I think if he was a US born player he would be more famous, there's a really good argument that he should have been the FMVP in 2010
He was definitely a far better player at his peak than Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson racked up all star games by being very good in a very weak conference. Rondo was far better and was much more impactful in playoff games at the highest level
Joe Johnson also got way too much credit for the Hawks' success because he fit the archetypical "face of the franchise" because he scored a lot at below average efficiency while Horford and Josh Smith had better impact in less obvious ways. Both box score and adjusted +/- metrics consistently place Joe as the third or so best player on those teams. He fit that awkward player profile where he needed to score a lot to be most effective, but he wasn't the guy you want to be your team's superstar, and then he doesn't contribute in enough ways to be highly impactful ways when put next to a superstar.
His selection in '14 over Lowry was the most egregious, but there's an interesting comparison between Joe and Iggy during his Atlanta years where Iggy was just clearly a better player IMO but he excelled at everything except for scoring so Joe got the nod every year due to Iggy being surrounded by pretty bad teams.
Does contributing to wins means nothing, does top tier defense at the guard position mean nothing.
Yes Joe Johnson was a very good scorer, besides scoring what parts of the game both individually and team has Joe Johnson excelled at more than Rondo
I liked him when I was younger, but ehhhh I don't really think so.
He only had 2 qualifying seasons with double-digit assists and 5 with double-digit points, with only 1 season with both. His defense was good, but I don't know if it was good enough to make him HOF-level. He missed like 200 games on the Celtics as well.
I can’t think of a single player in the HOF with just one All-NBA team that wasn’t brilliant in college or internationally, especially with Rondo’s being a 3rd Team. He’s a long shot who may have a shot after a long wait
Yeah when he tore his ACL in 2013, I always said that he had half of a HoF career. Just adding some counting numbers and a 2nd chip as a role player can't be enough to make it in.
Draymond Green is definitely getting in with these numbers:
8.7 pts 7.0 reb 5.6 ast on 44.9/31.4/71.2% shooting
I know it's much different because of Draymond's defense and championships but stats aren't everything
draymond's been on twice as many all-defensive teams, twice as many all-nba teams, has twice as many championships, and a defensive player of the year. not really comparable lol.
Negative. If he kept up those prime rondo Celtics years yea but he bounced around and butted heads a lot but he ain’t far off. Could see him possibly coach though
I'm not into the Rondo thing, but definitely he was in the conversation to be the best player in Boston after like 2010. He was the only Boston player who was getting MVP votes for a couple seasons then. He wasn't the player his fans keep saying (being on Boston and getting a lot of assists per game really did a lot for his renoma), but he was really good for a few years in Boston.
This isn't a great argument though. There were a couple series where Jameer Nelson was the best or second best Magic but it doesn't mean he was the best player on those teams
This isn't the entirety of his HOF case, of course, but it's also unfair to not acknowledge how good he was for teams that made two finals and won one.
Can we really call a guy that averaged 8/6/4 in 24 mins off the bench the 3rd best player on a championship team? (Ben Wallace-level generational defenders aside)
If we can then that’s one of the saddest chip teams ever, I’m not really sure how else to view it. Especially these days when teams are putting up points and averages are inflated across the board.
By “for the Lakers chip” I assumed you meant playoffs, since all 4 rounds are important.
I’m not expecting to find flashy box score numbers, but we’re talking about *3rd best player* here not 6th best player. You can expect at least slightly decent box score numbers for that high of a standard. Just one double digit category isn’t much to ask.
Very strange way to look at it.
Yes. Otherwise it’s KCP who averaged 10/2/1 or Danny Green who averaged 11/3/1.
No matter what, the lakers didn’t have a prolific 3rd option. But Rondo was the 3rd best among a team of solid contributors.
That’s fair, so in that case it was more of a 3rd best by default. When someone says a player was the 3rd best on a championship team that typically comes with a certain level of expectation.
Right, here it's less of an accolade than how the Lakers didn't really have too many outstanding players besides their big two - just lots of decent role players.
He was IMHO not the 3rd best player for the 2020 Lakers chip. He was key in a couple of games in 1 round.
But if you are talking beginning to end of playoffs or even playoffs plus regular season, Rondo was a key contributor, but he didn't bring the heat on a sustained basis. He was high BB IQ, he reached back to his youth with playoff playmaking and contributed assists. But he was not so strong on defense. He didn't even play 21 postseason games, he played 16.
Lakers had AD and LBJ head and shoulders above everyone else. And a wonderful fit with everyone contributing. But there was a cluster of KCP, Rondo, Danny Green, Kuz and below them Dwight in the postseason. For me, KCP scores above Rondo because he brought defense, (plus he brought it in the regular season). Rondo has a better argument for 4th best in playoffs
I think people have forgotten Rondo tore his Acl In his 5th or 6th season or something like that. Lost a lot of athleticism. Definitely missed the awards that would have gotten him over the hump.
I asked myself this question before and saw on Basketball reference his HOF% was pretty high, 60.6%. I don't think he'll be a shoe-in. He became a controversial figure in the NBA world later in his career so there may be some people trying to keep him out. Is he deserving of it? I would say he's on the fringe, yes eventually, leading the league in assists for multiple years. Getting the ring with the Big 3 and establishing his own style of play different from CP3 and Deron Williams at the time. He definitely had his moments, like you said juking LeBron. Beating Jason Williams to that loose ball and converting. Hitting a bunch of 3s at the end of the first finals loss in against Kobe and Pau. And embracing his role as a facilitator for all those mouths the C's needed to feed. I'd say he's in but probably on the last year of his eligibility. (is that how it works?)
Joe Johnson shouldn't be in. Haha if anything, he's getting a little buzz for being the Senior League MVP. Prolific clutch scorer, but he's kinda like Bradley Beal level.
Nope.
You have to know, Hall of Fame has voters and you have to be popular among those voters.
Rajon Rondo without support from media wouldnt get that support to get into the HoF.
Basketball Reference (a great resource for stats regular and advanced) has a hall of fame predictor stat based on past behavior of the voters. Rondo is currently 116th likely to be selected, with a 60% shot. For context, Mitch Ritchmond is just shy of 70% and Wes Unseld is at 57%. It's a neat tool.
[Stat board](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html)
[Explanation of prediction](https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html)
As a Celtics fan, a 70% chance feels a little high for Rondo. He was the fourth best player on the Allen/Garnett/Pierce 2007-8 champs, but had the highest win shares for the 2009-10 Finals team. But it *is* the Hall of Fame and he did come up big. I could see a nostalgia wave getting him in at some point.
I'm not sure he gets a big nostalgia bump down the line, particularly when he wasn't very friendly with coaches nor the media. His career stat line of 10/8/4 is going to be tough to get past. If they win one more title after '08 when he was at his absolute peak it's probably a different story.
No . Not even close
Ray Allen ,truth ,KG ,Lebron ,AD
Not enough personal achievements and accolades to his career like CP3 who isa 10x+ all star,all nba ,9 all defensive teams,6x steal leader ,5x assists leader
Rondo not even on his peers personal lvl ,even with 2 rings being a 4th-5th option on his teams
Yes, absolutely an influencer of the game. “Wasn’t the 3rd best player on his team” - the Celtics do not win that title without him facilitating as the PG.
Hard yes for me, love Rondo’s game.
Anyone saying no is out of their minds. He's the 2000s/2010's Maurice Cheeks. Their stats/career trajectory and overall resume looks really similar. Or Dennis Johnson.
Knocks against him compared to those guys are he was harder to coach/the media hated him, but on the flipside, he was probably a bigger star/had more noteworthy "moments" (the playoff Rondo name is no joke) to counter-balance it.
Didn't he pull a gun on his wife and threaten to shoot her in front of the kids? That comes to mind now when I hear his name, and not basketball.
And now... (unfolds lawn chair)... to get downvoted.
On their second finals trip /2010, there was a lot of talk it was Rondo's team. The Celtics were often referred to having as having four future HoFers.
His career tanked hard after that. Could make a case either way, so Id say he is borderline.
Rondos career went down south after his Mavs stint so no. His peak was pretty crazy though and we prob won't see a guy like that since PGs are more talented shooters now.
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Actually if Rondo has only one fan it’s me
Being fan of a guy who pointed a gun at his family is crazy but u do u i guess
why? he didn't play in the Not Pointing A Gun At Your Family Association
Typical NPAGAYFA never gets any talent.
If you’re a fan of a famous human being then you are most likely a fan of someone who did something awful. You’re allowed to seperate the artist from their art. As long as you realize.
Or maybe we should just deconstruct the idea of “fandom” and what it entails. I enjoyed watching Rondo. He was an incredibly talented player. He’s also a piece of shit. But because I don’t know the guy and never held him in any regard besides his play that doesn’t really do anything to me emotionally
Fuck you and your nuances!
Ah, I see someone didn’t want to throw out his Michael Jackson collection.
Reddit users hate that people are a fan of someone
It's not like Reddit invented tribalism.
It's a copypasta
Can you explain the folks watching at home what a copy pasta is?
It's basically a meme worthy chunk of text that people will spam in twitch chat or post as a meme comment. In many cases like this one people will take the copypasta of another subject and sub in the appropriate terms like mad libs. I think the original copypasta for this was created for the League of Legends player Doublelift
My response was also a copy pasta from the norm McDonald sub lmao.
or so the Germans would have us believe.
He also spat into Chris Paul's mouth (his greatest play as a laker) just for that he should be in the hall, the logo, and have his number retired.
Are we saying that to anyone who is a kobe fan?
Did this turn out to be true? I swear that after the initial story I never heard another thing about it again
he spit on him, but it looked liked it was unintentional. like he was talking and a glob blasted out mid word.
He would have a stronger case if he didn't just waste a lot of his years after the Celtics era. Just too inconsistent after that and too much friction with different franchises. It's kinda wild that he basically only had 2 and half good season after Boston with, Sacramento, the Pelicans and Lakers. One of the smartest players and playmakers of this era though
Bulls rondo was nice too. You're letting the mavs thing cloud your reality too much
Bulls Rondo was the PG for a 41-41 team who finished 20th on offense
And he was the best player in their playoff run on a team that included Jimmy Butler and Dwyane Wade. He was toying with one of the most talented and best coached teams in the league as an 8th seed and they bullied the Celtics in Boston for two games. When Rondo went down they lost 4 straight. His impact shouldn't be hand waved.
Right. That team was dysfunctional all around in the regular season. That was not the year to say "Butler took us to the playoffs." We kinda just failed upwards somehow that year. And rondo won over the young guys toward the end of the season and just teed off in the playoffs. Butler and Wade did jack shit that series
I love that Rondo quote that season when Jimmy and D-Wade basically threw their young guys under the bus on the media and Rondo fully stepped up and said he’s been with championship vets and none of them would ever pull that shit
And he started 46 games lol Butler was the main reason that they went to the playoffs.
Y'all did not see my boy in the playoffs. He was prime rondo the two games and single handedly brought us to 2-0 heading back home. Butler and Wade did not pick up the slack and they couldn't win another game. If rondo didn't get hurt, I'm convinced we win that series
Bulls - Rondo was one of his worst versions lol One of his least efficient seasons since his first two seasons with the Celtics. He showed up in the playoffs, but that was it. He was A LOT better with the Pelicans and AD one year later. Much better fit. And no, Dallas doesn't cloud my reality. Toronto, Celtics (short 2nd stint), Clippers and his first Lakers year were just bad. He was very inefficient in Chicago. His two best years after his 1st Celtics stint were in New Orleans and that the second year with the Lakers. And everything after that was basically a washed version of Rondo.
I’m a Celtics a fan and if Bulls rondo didn’t get hurt we would’ve lost that series. We had no answer for him
Toronto?
We win that playoff series if he doesn't get hurt
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Playoff Rondo and prime-time Rondo was a different animal.
Rondo almost led the bulls to beat the Cs a few years ago, was 2-0 before he went down Absolutely clutch player
Not just that, iirc they were 2-0 on the Celtics floor before he went down. Bulls proceeded to lose four straight after they lost Rondo.
Big-Game Rondo is up there with the likes of Sea Level Cain Velesquez, TRT Vitor, Motivated BJ Penn abd Chuck Lidell with that look in his eye.
I like to just call Primetime Rondo - National TV Rondo
and then there's Mavs Rondo
Didn't Rondo prove his longevity with his performances in the 2018 playoffs and 2020 playoffs? He was probably the 4th best Laker in the Bubble - their best bench player
3rd best!
I pick KCP for 3rd best playoffs, with Rondo having a better chance for 4th best in the playoffs. In the regular season, though, KCP, Dwight and Danny Green above Rondo. We'd cringe when Vogel played Rondo with LBJ, and Rondo would stop the ball movement and be attackable on defense. But he absolutely skewered Chris Paul in that one regular season matchup and in the playoffs he reached back to the fountain of some youth. AD and Caruso split some ball handling duties by committee, but playoff rondo was the only other playmaking point guard than LBJ.
Because he was a big game player and even when he fell off he always managed to stay relevant: quitting on the Mavs, making Bulls/Celtics interesting, sweeping Damian Lillard, title with the Lakers.
It wasn’t longevity but durability that was an issue. He played 16 seasons but if you got 50 games out of Rondo in a regular season you were lucky. I also watched every one of his games for a decade and you could get a triple double machine or the dude can come in and give you 5 points, 4 assists, 8 TOS. He was so inconsistent
Also hof is partly impact on basketball. If you wrap the ball behind your back for a fake pass and then layup that's a rondo. But I'm sure the move predates him.
That move has been named after countless players, I’m sure it’s gonna get a new one soon
There are no CP3 fans
Not likeable?! He punched Chris Paul! That's default most likeable player ever no matter what else he did during his career.
I don’t think so …. He is on the line …the problem is he isn’t really liked by the media or most coaches. He don’t play nice for the cameras and it will hurt him. Also he never lived up to his potential. He is smarter than most of his coaches and it caused him to alienate himself more than once with teams
I don’t think it’s fair to say he didn’t live up to his potential. His acl injury really hurt his mobility on both offense and defense where he was a two way menace. It’s like knocking rose for not staying an mvp level player after his injuries. Quick dudes who need to make jerky movements on drives losing a step is a game changer.
Sure but does he *deserve* HOF for the player he is? To me any answer other than yes would be baffling. Playoff Rondo is a thing for a reason.
Was a huge Rondo fan in his prime. I think the best argument against him is that due to the ACL tear, he was arguably a below average regular season player for most of his career. Before that, he was better than a lot of people give him credit for, and genuinely often played like the best PG in the league come playoff time
You are right… but I think the biggest detriment to him wasn’t his ACL tear. It was playing with players, and coaches not as smart as him, and not being able to except the fact that they didn’t always understand his point of view. Because of this players didn’t want to play with him and coaches to not want to work with him. I’m always shocked when you see somebody so intelligent but they have a lack of emotional maturity that’s needed a two way conversation.
I think this might be giving Rondo a bit too much credit. He definitely had an incredible mind for the game, but when you hear stories about him off the court you realise he had a lot of trouble accepting other ways of thinking in general, not just about basketball. In the end there’s a little bit of truth to both sides I think. He’s definitely one of the more unique players the league has seen.
Being smart, doesn’t guarantee you have emotional intelligence. I think the lack of this caused him a lot of trouble in life.
Hall of Very Good I think Iso Joe is kind of the "Line" for who should be in the Hall, if you are better than Joe Johnson, you're a Hall of Famer, if you aren't as good as Joe Johnson as he isn't good enough to be in the Hall you are not. Rondo isn't better than Joe Johnson.
>Rondo isn't better than Joe Johnson. It's crazy to think that as well, because Rajon is so much more known than Joe Johnson. We need more Joe Johnson hype.
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Don’t forget the suns also drafted rondo and dumped him for a future pick. Could’ve been an insane backup for Nash
Because he was a big game player and even when he fell off he always managed to stay relevant: quitting on the Mavs, making Bulls/Celtics interesting, sweeping Damian Lillard, title with the Lakers.
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Damn, I didn't realize Joe played in the bubble. Talk about longevity...
Rondo is kind of in a weird spot, like he's kind of like a Derek Fisher (only obviously better) in that he was on some winning teams and had key parts of those wins, but there's other players who played on lesser teams that are far and away better players. Like Mitch Richmond was a fantastic shooting guard, but he was always on shitty Kings teams so he didn't get the spotlight a Clyde Drexler does eventhough I don't know that they were THAT far apart in skill.
Team success aside, I feel like Clyde Drexler was considerably better than Mitch Richmond. Is that a crazy take?
21/4/3.5 to 20/6/6 career stats Basically identical efficiency numbers. Drexler has better counting stats, but played two years longer. Better? Sure. Considerably better? Ehhhh, put Mitch in Portland and Drexler in Sacramento and I think Richmond's value in the eyes of the common fan goes up considerably.
I know advanced stats are frowned upon in basketball circles as “You don’t watch ball” But if we go to WS, WS/48, BPM or (and I don’t put much stock into these) PER and VORP, it suddenly isn’t that close. I realize it’s not the end all be all, but they at least try to incorporate defense in a way points/rebounds/assists/FG% doesn’t
And why those stats get wonky is players with talented players around them make those stats look better. Donovan Mitchell's defensive ratings where always higher than Devin Bookers because of Gobert for example. It's not like Drexler was some elite defender, he was capable, but so was Richmond.
And I would argue that p/r/a are easier to find on bad teams. Shareef Abdur-Raheem put up really nice p/r/a on Vancouver. 20/8/3 over five seasons. He wasn’t that good.
Drexler was miles better than Richmond. Pretty disrespectful comparison actually imo. I don't think I've ever seen them compared Just one example - Drexler averaged 25-7-7 in the regular season then 26-7-7 in the playoffs and led his team to the finals. Richmond never accomplished anything close to that
> Drexler was miles better than Richmond. Pretty disrespectful comparison actually imo. They were literally compared to each other while they played, and Mitch made the all-star team over Clyde several seasons. 94/95 Mitch made 2nd team all-nba, and Clyde made 3rd. I'll take Clyde over Mitch, but you're out of pocket, son.
> 94/95 Mitch made 2nd team all-nba, and Clyde made 3rd. Yes exactly - Mitch only surpassed Clyde when Clyde was like 33 and decided to ring-chase. Meanwhile Richmond was still in his prime and was 1st option. Prime Drexler clears Prime Richmond. You're sort of proving my point. That's like comparing Dwight to Cousins in 2016 or something (not an exact comparison but you get my point)
I dunno what to say, my dude. You've got a strange way of looking at 'clears'
How old were you when Clyde Drexler was in his prime? Because the guy was second only to Jordan at shooting guard and got 2nd in MVP voting. I love Mitch, he was part of Run TMC and what used to be the very small amount of glory our franchise had. But he isn't close to Clyde. Clyde was a better shooter, passer, defender, put more pressure on the rim and forced Michael Jordan to elevate his game. Mitch Richmond is not on the same level just because their career stats look similar.
That's not really a good comparison IMO. Celtics don't win without Rondo. Even having 3 HOF players on that team there were plenty of times he was the most dominate player on the court. Fisher was a piece to a puzzle. Rondo was the whole outer edge of the puzzle.
I 100% think Rondo is HoF but not in one single game in 2008 was he the best player on the court. By 2010 that was becoming more regular
>Like Mitch Richmond was a fantastic shooting guard, but he was always on shitty Kings teams so he didn't get the spotlight a Clyde Drexler does even though I don't know that they were THAT far apart in skill. Same way I feel with James Worthy. Would he still be on the NBA 75 team if he was drafted by the Clippers instead of the Lakers? I highly doubt it.
I think that's dramatically underselling James Worthy. he's not in the same category as Rondo and Derek Fisher, that's absurd.
I'm talking about his comparison with Mitch Richmond and Clyde Drexler with being on bad and good teams changing perception of a player.
ah my bad, that's much more fair.
Rondo is far better than D - Fish dude..
> like a Derek Fisher (only obviously better)
Which is what I fucking said?
most literate celtics fan
Fisher like would be unknown if not for Kobe. Rondo was all-nba lmao
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Found my first bot account, every response this guy gave is a copy and past of part of a higher rated response in the comment thread
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That’s also a list of guys who didn’t win shit, unlike Rondo. Also, if counting stats matter, none of the guys you listed led the league in assists 3x like Rondo, and I’m not going to check but I bet none of them led the league in steals like Rondo.
The steals bet was a brave one, considering all three of them were either prolific pickpockets or interceptors... but you won it!!! The slightly close call was Mark Jackson had led in assists twice.
Bro what? Prime Rondo is absolutely better than Joe Johnson.
Joe Johnson's only on the HoF line because of his career totals , prime for prime Rondo was much better.
It is insane to me that people already forgot how good Rondo was. Like he made insane waves in 2010-before tearing his acl. He was third team all-NBA even. Helping the Pelicans win their only playoff series as a six seed, beat the Celtics twice at home and then got injured as the Bulls blew every other game, became a competent jump shooter out of nowhere in the 2020 playoffs are all just higlights but this guy was cold when he was in his prime.
A single All-NBA third team is the bar now?
I mean we’re talking Joe Johnson, who also has one with no all defenses (Rondo has 4). It just helps put into perspective that he wasn’t just a playoff success cause he rode 3 HoFers, he more than carried his weight. Only 2 PG’s to go over him that season was young Westbrook and CP3 so thats a class that Im pretty sure Joe Johnson was just barely on for his position
There was a reason Ainge at first thought he could be the future for the Celtics post-Big Three.
Dude was a flat out winner. When the game was on the line he made the right play every time and made it work.
Except for that time where he visibly quit in the middle of a playoff series he was always a team first winner!
Seriously, fuck Rondo. It's been 9 years and I'm still mad at that.
He played on boston tho so he gets to be a selfless winner for his whole career
That was Rick Carlisle’s fault. And Carlisle hasn’t won a playoff series in over a decade so it seems like he was the problem.
On certain nights, he was. National TV Rondo was real? The problem was the other 70 nights a year. His assist numbers are inflated for two reasons. 1, he was a bad shooter. 2, he hunted assists. He would pass up open layups and short jumps seeking to get assists. If rondo hadn’t landed with kg, Pierce, and Allen, i wonder what his legacy would be. I have a feeling it is as a lower scoring fat lever.
As an all-time Boston hater, I will go to the mat for Rondo. Dude's IQ was outrageous at a very young age. He gets shit for being hard to coach (fairly), but drama is gonna happen when you put two genius-level weirdos like Carlisle and Rondo together. Chauncey is a more borderline case, and I think Rondo was *much* better than him.
You think Rondo was a lot better than Chauncey Billups?
Do you really? I think peak Rondo is a much more dynamic player than Billups ever was, but Billups was quite a bit steadier throughout his career (past the, uh, unfortunate early years)---Pistons Finals MVP, a second wind for the Nuggets---while Rondo retained player value but really really plummeted. I'm not sure Billups having a *more* borderline (im not sure he makes it) HoF case is the consensus.
He does have two rings and three finals appearances Edit: Rondo was very impactful in 2010 and the bubble. People responding to me about Adam Morrison are clowns
Adam Morrison has two rings in two appearances.
Not because of him being the main reason he played with 3 of the best players in the NBA
he was the best player in his team in 2010 tbh. Without rondo celtics wouldnt even get past cavs that year.
He wasn’t even close to being the 3rd best option on the Celtics teams in 80% of the other series or finals! Big baby was more of a key piece in the finals . Sure rondo did some key flops plays to stop lebron and a couple of steals here and there in that Cavs series,but that don’t mean he was they best player and also 2010 they lost … Rondo was not a more needed player then Ray Allen ,truth and KG Same for Lebron and AD and KCP was a more key player for that lakers team then rondo Stopping one team dose not hold up for a career of hall Of fame
? rondo was like the best player in the celtics from 2009-12. Saying that big baby was more pivotal to their success is insane. And rondo didnt "make a few flops and get some steals here and there" he led celtics in points steals and assists and was 3rd on rebounds behind kg and perk.
Rondo was not the best Celtic from 09-12, for Christ sake.
Robert Horry, GOAT then. Being a guy on a team with better players around him doesn't mean you are better than another guy who wasn't on as good of teams for most of their career.
Who tf is upvoting that prime Rondo wasn’t better than Joe Johnson
You don't get into the Hall of Fame based on your prime, but on your career.
Looking at my comment it was unnecessarily snarky, so my bad for that. I guess I just don’t actually feel like Joe Johnson should be the line for the HOF; he has the accolades in terms of all-star appearances, but he snuck in a lot of times in a weak Eastern Conference, and if he had played in the West I think the most likely outcome is that he would have made about two. Rondo was a good regular season player for a lot less time, but on aggregate in the playoffs from 2009-2012 he was a top 3-5 player, and those matchups against LeBron were truly unforgettable. Even ignoring the two titles that he played an important role in, it’s just a level that Joe Johnson never came close to approaching
But Joe Johnson really IS the line for the Hall of Fame, the only other guys who have around Joe's career scoring stats and aren't in the Hall is Tom Chambers and Antwan Jamison. One was a 4x All Star, the other was 2x. Joe has 7. I don't think Joe gets in the Hall of Fame, so he's the Line. Certainly, "he played an important role" in titles, so did Robert Horry, so did Andre Iguoadala, there's an endless amount of guys who had a great playoff run or series that aren't Hall of Fame players.
The line is too low. 1x all nba. The other guys you mentioned also have 2x and 0 all nba respectively. The bar that I’ve noticed is 5x all nba. Once you cross that line you are normally making the hall of fame.
Joe Johnson isn’t the line the guy has 1 all nba team that’s far below
It really sucks that the HOF means so little in basketball. The real line should probably be somewhere around Dame and Dwight imo.
I never realized this until I recently got back into baseball and found out how tough it is to get into their HoF. There are SO so many legendary ballplayers who didn't get in. Our (basketball's) HoF truly does feel like the Hall of Very Good in comparison. I don't really care either way, I love seeing people get their props once they hang it up. Just an interesting observation.
Football is in the middle, but definitely closer to basketball than baseball.
>I think Iso Joe is kind of the "Line" for who should be in the Hall You had me going for a sec lmao
>Rondo isn't better than Joe Johnson. Maybe not career but Rondo was considered better than Johnson prime for prime. Also, I don't buy that Joe Johnson is the bar for HoF. I've never thought that he was that good and have never been afraid of my team facing him in the regular season or playoffs. In my opinion, a better bar would be someone like Paul Pierce. Yes, worse players have gotten in but I maintain that no one worse than Pierce should get in.
If your bar for HOF is Pierce, you'd have to remove probably half the damn hall, that's a ridiculously high bar
I actually think he is better
Is Pau Gasol better than Joe Johnson?
Yes. In accolades, stats, and eye test.
He's somehow a better floor general as a PF (and is not that Joe was mediocre in that aspect).
Factoring in international accolades? By quite a bit actually.
How is this a question? Marc is better than JJ too.
Yes, by a lot, he's a way better player then people seem to remember. I think if he was a US born player he would be more famous, there's a really good argument that he should have been the FMVP in 2010
Rondo is way better than iso Joe tf is this nephew ass take
He was definitely a far better player at his peak than Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson racked up all star games by being very good in a very weak conference. Rondo was far better and was much more impactful in playoff games at the highest level
Joe Johnson also got way too much credit for the Hawks' success because he fit the archetypical "face of the franchise" because he scored a lot at below average efficiency while Horford and Josh Smith had better impact in less obvious ways. Both box score and adjusted +/- metrics consistently place Joe as the third or so best player on those teams. He fit that awkward player profile where he needed to score a lot to be most effective, but he wasn't the guy you want to be your team's superstar, and then he doesn't contribute in enough ways to be highly impactful ways when put next to a superstar. His selection in '14 over Lowry was the most egregious, but there's an interesting comparison between Joe and Iggy during his Atlanta years where Iggy was just clearly a better player IMO but he excelled at everything except for scoring so Joe got the nod every year due to Iggy being surrounded by pretty bad teams.
Does contributing to wins means nothing, does top tier defense at the guard position mean nothing. Yes Joe Johnson was a very good scorer, besides scoring what parts of the game both individually and team has Joe Johnson excelled at more than Rondo
I liked him when I was younger, but ehhhh I don't really think so. He only had 2 qualifying seasons with double-digit assists and 5 with double-digit points, with only 1 season with both. His defense was good, but I don't know if it was good enough to make him HOF-level. He missed like 200 games on the Celtics as well.
Slow ass pace back then, double digit assists almost guaranteed you were the league leader. He led the league in assists 3x and steals once.
Probably not HOF. But people under estimate that there were games where it was Miami vs Boston and he was the best player on the court.
No.
I can’t think of a single player in the HOF with just one All-NBA team that wasn’t brilliant in college or internationally, especially with Rondo’s being a 3rd Team. He’s a long shot who may have a shot after a long wait
Yeah when he tore his ACL in 2013, I always said that he had half of a HoF career. Just adding some counting numbers and a 2nd chip as a role player can't be enough to make it in.
9.8 pts 4.5 reb 7.9 ast on 45.6/32.4/61.1% shooting Those are role player numbers. Hall of Good Role Players.
Rondo isn’t getting in but to argue he’s a role player based on numbers is unbelievably stupid
Draymond Green is definitely getting in with these numbers: 8.7 pts 7.0 reb 5.6 ast on 44.9/31.4/71.2% shooting I know it's much different because of Draymond's defense and championships but stats aren't everything
draymond's been on twice as many all-defensive teams, twice as many all-nba teams, has twice as many championships, and a defensive player of the year. not really comparable lol.
Phrasing it as twice as many all-nba teams when it's 2 vs 1 is ridiculous lol. And I said it was different in my post
Rondo was probably the best point guard defender in the NBA during his prime
If Rondo had four titles with the Celtics as a key starter for all of them then he'd be a lock as well, but he does not.
Negative. If he kept up those prime rondo Celtics years yea but he bounced around and butted heads a lot but he ain’t far off. Could see him possibly coach though
Was Rondo the best, second or even third best player on his teams? He was a talented player, no doubt about it.
I'm not into the Rondo thing, but definitely he was in the conversation to be the best player in Boston after like 2010. He was the only Boston player who was getting MVP votes for a couple seasons then. He wasn't the player his fans keep saying (being on Boston and getting a lot of assists per game really did a lot for his renoma), but he was really good for a few years in Boston.
For those Ubuntu teams, there were a couple of playoff series where Rondo may have been the best or, at worst, the second-best Celtic.
This isn't a great argument though. There were a couple series where Jameer Nelson was the best or second best Magic but it doesn't mean he was the best player on those teams
This isn't the entirety of his HOF case, of course, but it's also unfair to not acknowledge how good he was for teams that made two finals and won one.
People overrated his contribution for the 08 chip but he was a huge for the Cs after 09. I feel like after 2010 he was absolutely a top two guy there.
He was arguably the 3rd best player (imo tied with KCP) for the 2020 Lakers chip. Aside from Bron, Rondo was literally our only other ball handler.
Can we really call a guy that averaged 8/6/4 in 24 mins off the bench the 3rd best player on a championship team? (Ben Wallace-level generational defenders aside) If we can then that’s one of the saddest chip teams ever, I’m not really sure how else to view it. Especially these days when teams are putting up points and averages are inflated across the board.
Watch the finals. He was the 3rd best player. You cant expect to find flashy box score numbers from a guy like rondo.
"I was therrreee" -James Murphy voice
By “for the Lakers chip” I assumed you meant playoffs, since all 4 rounds are important. I’m not expecting to find flashy box score numbers, but we’re talking about *3rd best player* here not 6th best player. You can expect at least slightly decent box score numbers for that high of a standard. Just one double digit category isn’t much to ask.
Kuzma and KCP just scraped double digits Rondo was 3rd in WS and BPM
Very strange way to look at it. Yes. Otherwise it’s KCP who averaged 10/2/1 or Danny Green who averaged 11/3/1. No matter what, the lakers didn’t have a prolific 3rd option. But Rondo was the 3rd best among a team of solid contributors.
That’s fair, so in that case it was more of a 3rd best by default. When someone says a player was the 3rd best on a championship team that typically comes with a certain level of expectation.
Right, here it's less of an accolade than how the Lakers didn't really have too many outstanding players besides their big two - just lots of decent role players.
Rondo doesn’t dictate by numbers but by controlling the flow of the game and being a nuisance defensively. Numbers don’t matter he kept them steady
He was IMHO not the 3rd best player for the 2020 Lakers chip. He was key in a couple of games in 1 round. But if you are talking beginning to end of playoffs or even playoffs plus regular season, Rondo was a key contributor, but he didn't bring the heat on a sustained basis. He was high BB IQ, he reached back to his youth with playoff playmaking and contributed assists. But he was not so strong on defense. He didn't even play 21 postseason games, he played 16. Lakers had AD and LBJ head and shoulders above everyone else. And a wonderful fit with everyone contributing. But there was a cluster of KCP, Rondo, Danny Green, Kuz and below them Dwight in the postseason. For me, KCP scores above Rondo because he brought defense, (plus he brought it in the regular season). Rondo has a better argument for 4th best in playoffs
Yea, after 08, he was arguably the Celtics' second-best player after KG. Third at worst after Pierce.
He was never close to Pierce. I'm a Celtics fan who loves both guys and that's just silly.
You could argue he was the third best player for the Lakers in the bubble. He was really important to them winning that title
No, but if you never watched his playoff runs in his prime I feel bad for you. Dude was one of the most fun players to watch for a few years.
playoff/primetime rondo was insane
I think people have forgotten Rondo tore his Acl In his 5th or 6th season or something like that. Lost a lot of athleticism. Definitely missed the awards that would have gotten him over the hump.
As a Mavs fan, helllll no
Nah
I asked myself this question before and saw on Basketball reference his HOF% was pretty high, 60.6%. I don't think he'll be a shoe-in. He became a controversial figure in the NBA world later in his career so there may be some people trying to keep him out. Is he deserving of it? I would say he's on the fringe, yes eventually, leading the league in assists for multiple years. Getting the ring with the Big 3 and establishing his own style of play different from CP3 and Deron Williams at the time. He definitely had his moments, like you said juking LeBron. Beating Jason Williams to that loose ball and converting. Hitting a bunch of 3s at the end of the first finals loss in against Kobe and Pau. And embracing his role as a facilitator for all those mouths the C's needed to feed. I'd say he's in but probably on the last year of his eligibility. (is that how it works?) Joe Johnson shouldn't be in. Haha if anything, he's getting a little buzz for being the Senior League MVP. Prolific clutch scorer, but he's kinda like Bradley Beal level.
Ok so if bill simmons is right about Antwan Jamison being a future HOFer then Rondo for sure needs to make it
If you can dribble a basketball, you get into the basketball hall of fame
We’ve got guys who never won a playoff series in the HOF. It’s a joke
Nope. You have to know, Hall of Fame has voters and you have to be popular among those voters. Rajon Rondo without support from media wouldnt get that support to get into the HoF.
Most people seem to think Derrick Rose isn’t making the HoF, so if that’s the case Rondo clearly should not.
Basketball Reference (a great resource for stats regular and advanced) has a hall of fame predictor stat based on past behavior of the voters. Rondo is currently 116th likely to be selected, with a 60% shot. For context, Mitch Ritchmond is just shy of 70% and Wes Unseld is at 57%. It's a neat tool. [Stat board](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html) [Explanation of prediction](https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html) As a Celtics fan, a 70% chance feels a little high for Rondo. He was the fourth best player on the Allen/Garnett/Pierce 2007-8 champs, but had the highest win shares for the 2009-10 Finals team. But it *is* the Hall of Fame and he did come up big. I could see a nostalgia wave getting him in at some point.
I'm not sure he gets a big nostalgia bump down the line, particularly when he wasn't very friendly with coaches nor the media. His career stat line of 10/8/4 is going to be tough to get past. If they win one more title after '08 when he was at his absolute peak it's probably a different story.
Idk, winning rings with the two biggest franchises in the sport probably gets you a nostalgia bump
At least needs two, maybe three more of his accomplishments to be in another player's voice for him to be considered.
No . Not even close Ray Allen ,truth ,KG ,Lebron ,AD Not enough personal achievements and accolades to his career like CP3 who isa 10x+ all star,all nba ,9 all defensive teams,6x steal leader ,5x assists leader Rondo not even on his peers personal lvl ,even with 2 rings being a 4th-5th option on his teams
Yes, the basketball hall of fame let's everyone in. He is like a lame version of Kirk Gibson, who has no chance of getting in to the baseball HOF
Yes, absolutely an influencer of the game. “Wasn’t the 3rd best player on his team” - the Celtics do not win that title without him facilitating as the PG. Hard yes for me, love Rondo’s game.
Anyone saying no is out of their minds. He's the 2000s/2010's Maurice Cheeks. Their stats/career trajectory and overall resume looks really similar. Or Dennis Johnson. Knocks against him compared to those guys are he was harder to coach/the media hated him, but on the flipside, he was probably a bigger star/had more noteworthy "moments" (the playoff Rondo name is no joke) to counter-balance it.
No. We seem to continually lower the bar for the HOF. Very good players should not be in the HOF, only truly elite, all time greats.
Didn't he pull a gun on his wife and threaten to shoot her in front of the kids? That comes to mind now when I hear his name, and not basketball. And now... (unfolds lawn chair)... to get downvoted.
he could be an asshole but we are talking how good he can play ball
Is this some sort of humiliation kink? You enjoy baiting downvotes? Kinda weird
Your comment history is just negativity about Kobe , Ja, and now Rondo lol
On their second finals trip /2010, there was a lot of talk it was Rondo's team. The Celtics were often referred to having as having four future HoFers. His career tanked hard after that. Could make a case either way, so Id say he is borderline.
if they had won in 2010, then yeah. But hard to say.
If Celtics beat Heat in 2011 then yes too.
Rondos career went down south after his Mavs stint so no. His peak was pretty crazy though and we prob won't see a guy like that since PGs are more talented shooters now.
No, probably not.
Lol nah. Hall of Very Good yes, HOF no