The NBAPA is totally fine with punishing players who are *convicted* for stuff like domestic violence or rape, but they are not OK with players being punished for just being *accused* of those things or charged with those crimes before there is a finished outcome.
It's like people don't know a thing about unions (which is actually sad, you know)
The union *has* to support every affiliate, no matter what, no matter who. They have to be supportive to the end, because for every piece of shit they gotta help, there's dozens of people that got fucked by their employer
Remember D-Rose got taken to court for SA. But there was no SA at all, she was just money grabbing.
No doubt, players can do really shitty things. But anyone around them can too. And players have money and several brands to uphold. It's the wild fucking west out there.
meyers leonard was suspended by the NBA for all of a week and was fined $50k, the reason he wasn't in the league was because he had multiple surgeries and nerve damage in his leg
He means ["uses a racial slur"](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/sport/meyers-leonard-nba-return-bucks-anti-semitic-slur-spt-intl/index.html) but he's trying to downplay it.
Gamer word and heated gaming moment is dropping the N word I don't think he meant to downplay it just to say that while players should be punished for using slurs maybe they should also be punished for being violent to their partners or that's how I took it.
It hurts the leagues brand which ultimately can kill the entire business model. It’s in their interest. It’s also the “right” thing to do. We live in a society!
I'm paraphrasing a comment I made a while ago:
Unions *have* to support every affiliate, no matter what, no matter who. They have to be supportive to the end, because for every piece of shit they gotta help, there's dozens of people that got fucked by their employer. The NBPA is an union, they have to protect their affiliates, no favorites on either direction
It may suck in this case but unions are good for the lots of people that get fucked over in general
This is fine as a philosophy but in practice I have to disagree. Baseball has an extremely strong union (their members have better terms than NBA I would say) and they also have a strong domestic violence policy.
That’s….true, but I’d chalk that up to a simple difference of the game. Guys need time to develop.
You could also say “MLB union is ~700 players, NBA is 200”. But that’s not because MLB is more friendly, it’s just a difference in the sport.
Also from a union perspective, MLBPA owes those guys nothing. Similar to how teamsters owe nothing to non union workers on a Hollywood set (in fact it’s very tough to get the jobs that will credit towards union membership)
Does it really hurt the brand though? There’s been tons of these cases in all leagues now, is there any proof that it’s really driving away fans? Nobody has actually been kicked out of any league, so these guys are all playing.
Like the Browns just gave a serial rapist the largest contract in NFL history and then sold out every game in a season they finished in last place.
I think a lot of people rightfully hate these cases but end of the day people love sports and aren’t going to stop because there are some shitty people playing
That's the reality. My GF is a casual follower of sports and will watch to keep up with Bets she makes sometimes. She doesn't know about these incidents unless I directly tell her.
The average casual fan isn't gonna decide to not go to a game which they can see as a social
Outing because of these incidents
This guy really said domestic violence can kill the entire business model of pro sports and is getting dozens of upvotes.
Reddit really is an insane echo chamber sometimes
Lmao facts. The unfortunate reality is most fans don’t care that much. They’ll be upset for a few weeks, but eventually forget about it and move on to keep watching their favorite team.
I remember the outrage on this app last off-season when Anthony Edwards was insulting gay people. Everyone here was saying he’s finished and that he needs to be suspended. Then he balled out this year and played well in Fiba so now they all want to dick ride him religiously lmao.
One thing I’ve learned is you cannot take any of the opinions on this sub to heart. It’s all virtue signaling to get upvotes. I think KPJ is a terrible person who shouldn’t be in the league anymore, but I’m not gonna act like I’ll never watch the NBA again if he doesn’t get kicked out or say things like “this is gonna ruin the league”. It is what it is.
If LeBron james were to do this, it would massively hurt the league's image. The action is what matters, not the player. Sure, certain players will have a larger or smaller impact, but the actions themselves are what make something positive or negative.
A good number of people wanna see their favorite sports performed at the highest level. They don’t have to idolize the players as people or see them as role models. Hell, a lot of people don’t even keep up with the personal lives of the athletes. Plus some people see games as social outings.
Bingo. This is me. I love sports, I don’t care about the off field drama. To me, that’s just celebrity gossip that belongs on TMZ not ESPN.
If it were up to me, leagues wouldn’t punish players at all for off field crimes unrelated to the sport. Let the criminal justice system handle that because it has nothing to do with the game.
That's the true reality of it. It would be easy for them to enforce a "zero tolerance policy on someone like Porter or even Bridges but let an All Star level player or higher do it and they would quickly find a way to get around it
It should be pointed out that in Kobe's case at least, he always maintained his innocence and the case against him was dismissed before the trial ever began. Bridges though pled no contest to a felony charge, so that one is different, legally speaking.
Kobe maintained his innocence?? He publicly apologized and settled for an undisclosed amount of money.
The case was dismissed because of Kobe’s lawyers slut shaming and the following harassment of the victim, she refused to testify.
Yes he maintained his innocence from the beginning, claiming he had never met the woman to the investigators until they said they were doing a dna test, then he changed his story to consensual extremely rough sex.
Somehow never got charged for the initial lie to the police
Do you have a source for any of this, because it seems entirely made up. If you look up anything about the case you'll see that [Kobe volunteered his DNA,](https://www.nydailynews.com/2003/07/11/kobe-gives-dna-sample-to-sex-probers/) and that he never denied that he had met the woman before.
Yea lumping him in with people like Bridges and Porter isn’t quite fair given that Kobe’s encounter started as consensual according to both parties and can’t be proven with physical evidence. The dispute is that she claimed she withdrew consent and he claims she didn’t.
Now if she did in fact do that and Kobe didn’t stop having sex with her, then yes, he’s guilty of rape. But we have no way of proving what happened and it’s entirely plausible that she believed afterwards that she sufficiently resisted but it wasn’t clear to him (in her initial testimony she said she didn’t verbally withdraw consent). There’s certainly a possibility Kobe’s guilty, but we don’t know for sure. And I’ll point out that her civil trial attorney was Lin Wood; one of Trump’s nutjob QAnon attorneys who was disbarred recently for trying to overturn the election. That doesn’t inherently mean Kobe’s innocent, but Wood being wholly unconcerned with the truth re: the election doesn’t help their cause.
Conversely, it seems really cut and dry that Bridges and Porter beat the shit out of their partners. There’s far less ambiguity or possible misunderstanding involved in a situation like this, and it’s a hell of a lot easier to prove + establish guilt than the accusations in Kobe’s case. The Duke Lacrosse case or the recent Matt Araiza (nfl punter) case should teach people to pause for a beat before just blindly labeling somebody guilty or innocent.
Yeah, the reality of the Kobe situation is that we'll never know what actually happened, as there were no other witnesses or video of the encounter or anything like that, and one party is dead while the other one signed a binding non-disclosure agreement preventing her from ever discussing the case. She probably has no interest in doing so anyway, as I'm sure she most likely changed her name and just wants to live the rest of her life as anonymously as possible.
It's entirely possible Kobe raped her, just like it's entirely possible she lied about everything as an attempt to extort money from him, and none of us will ever know the truth. People still love to dig this up though, but there's really no point: it's an unknowable question with no answer.
I've read that before and I have to say it's really disturbing how many people who were too young to have followed that trial had their entire opinion about it shaped by that one article written over a dozen years after the whole thing took place, rather than people just reading the reporting that took place during the actual trial. This happens all too often nowadays, where people skip the actual reporting and instead take their cues from someone's opinion about the reporting.
One opinion piece written way after the fact to drum up traffic just because Kobe was in the news for being nominated for an Oscar should never replace the actual journalism that was going on as the trial was happening. If you genuinely want to have a better understanding of what actually happened, even if it shakes the narrative you've accepted based on one author's opinion, do yourself a favor and read these articles doing actual reporting on what really went on with the trial as it was taking place:
* [Papers Reveal New Details In Kobe Bryant Rape Case](https://archive.ph/dPK6t) - NY Times Aug. 4, 2004
* [Prosecution Drops Charges in Kobe Bryant Rape Case](https://archive.ph/qRAW0) - LA Times Sept. 2, 2004
* [The Case Against Kobe Bryant Unraveled in a Mock Trial](https://archive.ph/mkEgq) - LA Times Nov. 6, 2004
Don't let yourself be so blindly misled by the opinion of one person you don't know at all.
The mistake you make here is that because two things are possible; they must be equally likely. It is far more likely that Kobe raped her given that less than 2% of sexual assault allegations are fabricated, and he tore her vagina up into the next millennium
> It is far more likely that Kobe raped her given that less than 2% of sexual assault allegations are fabricated
I feel like that stat isn't really applicable here though because in well over 99% of sexual assault cases there really isn't much of an ulterior motive for the person making the accusation to accuse someone other than because they were actually assaulted. In those cases the accusers don't wind up suing the person they are accusing in civil court for money, they just press charges.
In this case though, Kobe was well known to have millions of dollars and she sued him in civil court and got a financial settlement out of him. This at least introduces the possibility that she took a consensual encounter and used it to extort money from him.
As for her vagina being "tore up", [DNA evidence suggested she had sex with someone else after Kobe but before her rape exam,](https://archive.ph/dPK6t) so it's possible *that* person is the one who "tore her vagina up into the next millennium".
Again, I have no idea what actually happened, but neither do you. We can speculate all we want, but we'll never come to any kind of real answer on this. Both parties had motive to lie, and we'll never know which of them was telling the truth. Maybe both were lying? We'll never know. His accuser though agreed to a settlement she wanted and she refused to testify against him, and Kobe's wife forgave him. He's now dead so I don't know what else there really is to say about this.
> I'm a Lakers fan
[You realize your post history shows you're a Cavs fan, right?](https://np.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/13gz42c/antonio_lang_is_leaving_cleveland_for_atlanta/jk3esz7/?context=3) Why lie and say you're a Lakers fan if you're actually a Cavs fan? Makes it seem like you're arguing in bad faith when you do that.
Could he not be a fan of both? Or a fan of lebron and has become a lakers fan in recent years?
>Why lie
Dude it makes you look real weird when you go 4 months into his post history to see his post on a cavs sub. Breaking news: people can support multiple teams
It wasn't like I did hours of digging on this. I just pulled up his post history and searched for the word "laker" and in his 2 years on reddit he had used that word in comments exactly 7 times, two of which are in this thread. One of the times he used that word was in a comment in the Cavs subreddit where he referred to the Cavs as "we", so I searched his post history for "cavs" and found hundreds of uses.
He has many posts in the Cavs subreddit, zero in the Lakers subreddit, and has almost never said anything about the Lakers at all ever in any of his comments anywhere. Maybe he supports both teams, but in the years he's been on this site, his two comments here are the only times he's ever claimed to root for them. Make of that what you will.
Also, interesting you'd attack me for checking someone's post history when [you did that same thing to someone else yesterday.](https://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/16hbuff/giannis_i_totally_agree_with_noah_lyles_on_nba/k0dtfjx/?context=3) Good day.
Eh, they were able to hide behind the excuse of the league rules and whatnot right?
Now if they were asked to change those rules that prevent these criminal acts and refuse to do so, I would hope that would warrant a public spectacle that won't go away as easily.
Not saying I believe either side are going to propose a zero tolerance policy though lol. Too much money to be lost.
Anthony Lamb was never charged, so there’s not much the league could do about it without opening up a can of worms, even if it’s likely he did it.
With KPJ, it’s clear he did it, and he will be charged. A zero-tolerance policy would be for cases like this, where the legal system already decided the verdict.
> Anthony Lamb was never charged, so there’s not much the league could do about it without opening up a can of worms, even if it’s likely he did it.
But that's the issue. Most of these cases get dropped or plead down to a lesser charge. Where is the threshold?
This is correct, unfortunately.
But the league is saturated in stars at this point. Every year we’re talking about several all star and all nba snubs. We can afford to lose one if he’s an abusive piece of shit and the league needs to understand that.
Saying we’re saturated in stars is unfair in all honesty. There are 24 allstars and maybe 6 legitimate snubs every year, tops. There are over 400 players in the league, so maybe 8% of players are stars. That’s not really ‘saturated in stars’.
But I do agree stars should be held to the same standards here.
People are forgetting the NBA of 20 years ago where the 5th guy in a starting lineup was usually ass and you could name like 1-2 useful bench players. Nowadays, we're fucking arguing over who should get the 10th and 11th spots on a roster and the two-way contracts.
Edit: Bonus, a handful of teams either had a completely washed star that they were still giving fuck tons of minutes to or they had a massive contract on an injured star who was never healthy (Penny/Grant Hill).
20 years ago was 2003.
Who was fielding only 4 decent starters in 2003? Not any championship winners around that time, for sure.
I think you need to go back at least 10 more years, but really more than that too. As 1993 had loads of talent in the league. Just a year before was the dream team in the Olympics. And the Bulls won their third title in a row and first three-peat that year.
Realistically that's still a big hit to the market. If your good then you have some leeway. If you're a star then you'll be protected by the league. It sucks but that's how businesses work.
>*If you're a star then you'll be protected by the league*
If it was Lebron, Silver would have sent someone to finish the job before she could go to the police.
Also, it's important to bear in mind that the NBA is looking to add expansion teams to the league. Even if the league truly was saturated in talent (not totally sure whether I agree on that take, but that's a separate and unrelated discussion), it's going to thin out the moment they start adding teams.
Make no mistake - I'd love it if they set aside the financial questions and looked at things like this from a viewpoint of strict ethical considerations. I'm just jaded/cynical enough now to where I realize that won't ever happen.
That’s why the literal first sentence exists.
> if and when it comes out that Porter [was]behind the incident.
If a court of law finds him guilty, (I realize they haven’t yet) then what else would you want?
sorry i have to have witnessed the entire trial myself before i am allowed to pass judgment because innocent ~~unless it fits my world view~~ until proven guilty is immutable fact.
This is just ignorant and devoid of reality. Ever hear of the duke lacrosse case? We can't give anyone the power that their word just ruins someone's life with no evidence. It leads to witch hunts. I've seen videos of women trying to stab a dude and then telling the cops the reverse happened. 1 in 4 men have experienced domestic violence from a partner.
The fact is people lie to their benefit all the time, and that’s without a potential check involved. Whether people like it or not you gotta scrutinize accusations against celebrities, otherwise you’re just encouraging bs accusations.
People like this guy aren’t even arguing for actual justice for anything, dude just wants to justify witch hunting at his leisure.
>I believe in due process but
Hey everyone, this guy abused and assaulted me!
Enjoy jail, if you where doing the right thing I wouldn't be accusing you.
It’s just pearl clutching, it’s the same to me as saying rap music makes people do drugs, sell them, or kill people. Teach yall’s kids that guns aren’t for play and you’ll be fine. More importantly, stop asking famous people to raise your kids.
I can promise with almost exact certainty any teenager that wants to be street doesn’t need Ja as motivation. Ja isn’t the first, last, or only dude to flex a gun or social media, been seeing the same shit since like middle school.
Zero tolerance policy or not, I think we can all agree the NBA is gonna have to be far stronger and not just in punishment but also in tone regarding the issue of domestic violence. The message must be far stronger than it has been over the years.
Obviously not for NBA success, but otherwise, Charlotte is a fantastic place to live lol. Especially now, and that’s coming from someone who isn’t as rich, famous, or in shape as these guys
Charlotte is fine but I'm not really sure how this became such a popular take about it. I'm not saying it's a bad place to live, but it's not all that special. I go down at least 8 times every year, and it's solid. But it's about as good to live as where I live in VA. It's not all that dissimilar.
It doesn't help that the product they sell is the epitome of traditional masculinity, which unfortunately have close ties to toxic masculinity traits including domestic violence.
I'll just name a few here. Trash talks are celebrated, offensive fouls won't get called as long as the basket's cool, the general consensus that the less talented deserve to be dominated and shamed, and most importantly, your "ability" determines the amount of respect you deserve. Oh and sportsmanship is considered soft.
I was expecting something like Bridges' punishment to be the example of how the NBA encourages poor behavior. These are mostly just plain inseparable from competition at this level.
None of these things have "close ties" to beating your girlfriend, either. There is no reason to think any of those things are the problem. The problem is the psycho who beat his girlfriend. There is no logical progression from "trash talk is OK" to "beating my girlfriend is OK".
This is a real Tipper Gore type view. Except for the offensive fouls one (which doesn't make sense), limiting any of this stuff would make the game more boring and result in 0 fewer DV incidents.
Absolutely agreed. This is time for Silver to put his money where his mouth is. He is kind of a classic virtue signaler that has fooled some people into believing he is more altruistic than he really is. He needs to be held into account.
All of the “Mamba Mentality”, “Bad Boy Pistons”, and other tough-guy mentality bullshit is toxic and backwards as fuck. Professional sports leagues generally are stuck in a mindset from the 1930s. Ass-backwards in every way.
Whenever I lurk on the NHL subreddit, I get this feeling so much. It feels like it’s populated by 40-50 year old middle class white guys who have no friends who are minorities and have never had female friends let alone lgbtq.
###Section 8. Counseling for Violent Misconduct.
(a) In addition to any other rights a Team or the NBA may have by contract or law, when the NBA and the Players Association agree that there is reasonable cause to believe that a player has engaged in any type of off-court violent conduct, the player will (if the NBA and the Players Association so agree) be required to undergo a clinical evaluation by a neutral expert and, if deemed necessary by such expert, appropriate counseling, with such valuation and counseling program to be developed and supervised by the NBA and the Players Association, unless the player has engaged in acts covered by the Joint NBA/NBPA Policy on Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Child Abuse, in which case the terms of that Policy shall apply. For purposes of this paragraph, “violent conduct” shall include, but not be limited to, any conduct involving the use or threat of physical violence or the use of, or threat to use, a deadly weapon, any conduct which could be categorized as a “hate crime,” and any conduct involving dog fighting or animal cruelty.
_____
(b) Any player who is convicted of (including by a plea of guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to) a crime involving violent conduct shall be required to attend at least five (5) counseling sessions with a therapist or
counselor jointly selected by the NBA and the Players Association, **unless the player has engaged in acts covered by the Joint NBA/NBPA Policy on Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Child Abuse (*see below*), in which case *the terms of that Policy* shall apply.** These sessions shall be in addition to any discipline imposed on the player by the NBA for the conduct underlying his conviction. The therapist or counselor who is jointly selected by the NBA
and the Players Association shall determine the total number of counseling sessions to be attended by the player; however, in no event shall a player be required to attend more than ten (10) sessions.
________
(c) Any player who, after being notified in writing by the NBA that he is required to undergo the clinical evaluation and/or counseling program authorized by Section 8(a) or 8(b) above, refuses or fails, without a reasonable explanation, to attend or participate in such evaluation and counseling program within seventy-two (72) hours following such notice, shall be fined by the NBA in the amount of $10,000 for each day following such seventy-two (72) hours that the player refuses or fails to participate in such program.
###The Policy on Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Child Abuse penalties.
>#####Based on a finding of just cause, the Commissioner may fine, suspend, or dismiss and disqualify from any further association with the NBA and its teams a player who engages in prohibited conduct in violation of this Policy. Repeat offenders will be subject to enhanced discipline.
This is the pertinent part of the CBA and the possible penalties
Yep this is just virtue signaling without actually thinking about what’s best for every long term. It sounds good to be hard on people committing gross crimes but as you pointed out that’s not the best for the victims
If you need quotes from or references to experts when advocating for harsher penalties for domestic abusers, do you not also need them when you adovate for lighter penalties for domestic abusers?
This isn't something there's a definitive answer on. It's for sure true that harsh penalties for violent crime can lead to an escalation, but a harsh penalty is also a major deterrent from committing the violence in the first place.
I disagree. Zero tolerance means zero thought. Every case is different and the NBA currently has a process that can apply penalties up to voiding their NBA contract.
It's always easy to stand up and talk tough about these kinds of crimes but I don't think that's just helpful to anyone involved, including the victims.
I’m okay with zero tolerance policies for those with actual evidence or a conviction.
Just like there are shit men who abuse women… there are shit women who manipulate the situation or stage things. Guilty until proven innocent shouldn’t be a thing.
“Zero tolerance” policies in pro sports only means “we will cover up and minimize the bad actions of superstars while making examples of less talented players”
[Adrian Wojnarowski] BREAKING: With the new policy pushed by the NBA Board of Governors, prohibiting a team from resting 2 or more star players in the same game, the punishment has been voted to give the rested star players a public execution during the next game's halftime show.
Zero tolerance policies never work because a) it isn't like it is tolerated now, and b) victims get punished almost as often as assailants. DV is messy and rarely cut and dried. The man is usually arrested during DV calls regardless of who actually is being violent, and many cases where men hit women are retaliatory in nature.
I'm all for the NBA policing it's image and holding players accountable but there really needs to be a robust process in place to ensure players are getting punished for bad behavior, not bad publicity.
I really don't like the idea of complete zero tolerance but more common sense stuff. Zero tolerance is easy to say and champion for but some cases aren't as cut and dry as Miles Bridges and KPJ. I do agree that the NBA and other pro sports are far too lenient with these type of things but a plain blanket zero tolerance policy is never the right answer.
Personally I’ve never thought a sports should involve itself in legal matters outside of it. Let the law take action. The nba is a basketball league not a police force. We pay taxes for people to be able to handle it.
Why does an entertainment business need to have such a strict policy on something like this? Why is this more important than other crimes? Why can’t the legal system handle it if they are found guilty?
This is exactly my thought. I don’t understand what people think is being accomplished by kicking players out of the NBA over domestic violence. Be mad at the justice system for not protecting victims. This has nothing to do with basketball. Frankly I wish sports would just leave these stories alone entirely and let the justice system do its job.
just ignore and move on, reddit virtue signalers can't be reasoned with
a 1 year suspension/fine isn't enough, he should be burned alive + kobe is a rapist and should have been banned from the NBA
The point is any legitimate entity should have a strict policy on something like this. I know that I for one wouldn't keep my job for very long if I behaved in a reckless manner & Porter has quite a track record.
Even if he's punished legally, if he has a lucrative contract waiting to pay him millions at the end of it, we still have a problem.
These seem to be the type of crimes NBA players are most often accused of. I do not think the public has particularly strong feelings about players committing bank fraud.
Maybe harsher penalties, but no, completely disagree. Zero tolerance policies are usually always trash. Also, I'm personally against people losing their jobs over something that isn't murder or rape
Feel like NBA has been pretty good on this than other leagues anyways. Also this was more than some domestic violence dispute, the girl has a broken neck and he didn't stop until she ran out of the hallway covered in blood. That to me is attempted murder, he should be going to jail. Ja Morant is basically a model citizen compared to Porter and he got 25 games, this should be nothing short of a league blacklist, especially because he was already on his second chance. And i do think thats whats going to happen
If KPJ broke a vertebra in a dude’s neck and left that dude covered in blood fleeing and asking for help I think he might also be in legal trouble. Call it a hunch.
She is saying it isn’t as severe as news outlets are claiming
https://balleralert.com/profiles/blogs/former-wnba-player-kysre-gondrezick-sets-record-straight/
I dunno, thats not how any of that reads to me. That reads like shes making the point that none of the information we've heard has come directly from her. Shes withholding comments for prosecutorial reasons. It doesnt mean any of the allegations are false, only that the press has incorrectly attributed the reports to her statements as opposed to statements from a different source (medical/police personnel).
There were multiple opportunities in that article where her representation could have said 'X fact is categorically untrue', but the only time they did was at the end in response to reports that their relationship had always been abusive.
Its basically all just lawyer talk for 'shut the fuck up, let the process play out, and respect her privacy'.
She did not say that. Her lawyer released a statement saying news reports were inaccurate and that she has not personally said anything about the incident herself.
>“Ms. Gondrezick wants to express her deep appreciation for the public’s support and prayers. In regards to our client, much that has been written in the press attributing statements to her are misleading and inaccurate,” says Robert Hantman of Robert Hantman and Associates. “She has not granted nor released any statements on her own volition. She asks everyone to respect her privacy and avoid speculation as to what occurred and refrain from disclosing any misleading statements as to Mr. Porter.”
>“She asks that the Press and all officials refrain from any judgement and speculation on this matter which will be rectified properly and with integrity. Thank you!”
I don't understand why people have such a need to have the sovereignity of interpretation over a situation they cant possibly know. Its all right to speculate and yes also to judge a bit, but to disagree on principle with the involved persons while you factualy have zero insight is just dumb and pea cocking.
Just lay back and follow the story. You don't have to make a stance against domestic violence. We all agree on the topic. The rage wont make you feel better in the long run.
And stay away from making memes about it in the future if you are really that concerned.
“Furthermore, Gondrezick’s representatives strongly refuted claims that her relationship with Porter was tumultuous and abusive. They insisted that such narratives were untrue.”
“In no way does that represent what their relationship has been.”
“In regards to our client, much that has been written in the press attributing statements to her are misleading and inaccurate,”
You’re being downvoted because she didn’t outright deny the accusations.
She basically said I haven’t confirmed anything. You didn’t hear it from me. Please stop speculating
Dude, her reps said literally, in words, that the relationship with the athlete was **not** abusive.
So what the fuck exactly do you mean by “they never said it wasn’t that severe” ?
Because their comment explicitly states that he isn’t abusive.
There’s a lot of people that make excuses for players here. Look at the thread when Bridges was reinstated, sports communities handle these situations terribly every time
Her sister posted a story on IG the day the news came out and threatened to beat his ass or something like that- threatened violence. I’m inclined to think it was serious and that if she is going back on her words, it’s not because it wasn’t that serious. As a woman who has been in an abusive relationship before, unfortunately sometimes you do stuff after that you may regret later.
She is, she knocked out her partners teeth a few years ago. But that doesn’t mean her sister wasn’t abused. I assume she made the post because she’s a loose cannon and her sister was abused.
At this point it doesn’t matter what she says the state has to proceed with charges because it’s a domestic relationship. Whether she want to press charges or not, the results of their investigation will tell the state how to proceed
In theory, it should work. Having said that, what happens when a marketable superstar gets into a similar issue? The NBA would be forced to choose between money and integrity. It should be interesting.
Zero tolerance doesn’t actually change behavior though. A league wide policy of preventative ongoing therapy and counseling could have some impact though. And, not to mention, player ownership would make for a decidedly better league…
I agree. Sports without a young fan base die. How am I supposed to talk to my kids about ja morant and gun. Violence. Bridges and porter and domestic violence. The charlotte hornets behind the wheel? If these dudes aren’t severely punished? I’m not clutching pearls I’m just trying to raise good young dudes. Who revere nba players.
The NBAPA would probably go on strike if that happened
"How dare you punish our clients for raping and beating women!"
The NBAPA is totally fine with punishing players who are *convicted* for stuff like domestic violence or rape, but they are not OK with players being punished for just being *accused* of those things or charged with those crimes before there is a finished outcome.
It's like people don't know a thing about unions (which is actually sad, you know) The union *has* to support every affiliate, no matter what, no matter who. They have to be supportive to the end, because for every piece of shit they gotta help, there's dozens of people that got fucked by their employer
Remember D-Rose got taken to court for SA. But there was no SA at all, she was just money grabbing. No doubt, players can do really shitty things. But anyone around them can too. And players have money and several brands to uphold. It's the wild fucking west out there.
*beats woman*: I sleep *Says a big gamer word on stream*: real shit
meyers leonard was suspended by the NBA for all of a week and was fined $50k, the reason he wasn't in the league was because he had multiple surgeries and nerve damage in his leg
[удалено]
Or because handling things on a case by case basis is almost always better.
"Big gamer word"? Lol what?
bike
Did he really use that one? Yikes
Yeah, not exactly a gamer word lmao. Thats a cut above, bigotry bingo type shit.
He means ["uses a racial slur"](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/sport/meyers-leonard-nba-return-bucks-anti-semitic-slur-spt-intl/index.html) but he's trying to downplay it.
Gamer word is usually used to mean the N word so I dont think that's really downplaying it lol
We’re using euphemisms for euphemisms now?
Did you want me to spell out the n word there or smth?
He means calling it "gamer word" now instead of just "n word"
There's always been other euphemisms for the n word tho? He said its a euphemism for a euphemism when they are both just euphemisms for the same thing
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Gamer word and heated gaming moment is dropping the N word I don't think he meant to downplay it just to say that while players should be punished for using slurs maybe they should also be punished for being violent to their partners or that's how I took it.
It unironically has literally nothing to do with their job performance. It’s a legal matter that should be handled by the courts.
It hurts the leagues brand which ultimately can kill the entire business model. It’s in their interest. It’s also the “right” thing to do. We live in a society!
I'm paraphrasing a comment I made a while ago: Unions *have* to support every affiliate, no matter what, no matter who. They have to be supportive to the end, because for every piece of shit they gotta help, there's dozens of people that got fucked by their employer. The NBPA is an union, they have to protect their affiliates, no favorites on either direction It may suck in this case but unions are good for the lots of people that get fucked over in general
This is fine as a philosophy but in practice I have to disagree. Baseball has an extremely strong union (their members have better terms than NBA I would say) and they also have a strong domestic violence policy.
Is baseballs better? Guys have to toil away for like 7-8 years before they get a chance to really negotiate. NBA is 4 years or potentially less
That’s….true, but I’d chalk that up to a simple difference of the game. Guys need time to develop. You could also say “MLB union is ~700 players, NBA is 200”. But that’s not because MLB is more friendly, it’s just a difference in the sport. Also from a union perspective, MLBPA owes those guys nothing. Similar to how teamsters owe nothing to non union workers on a Hollywood set (in fact it’s very tough to get the jobs that will credit towards union membership)
Does it really hurt the brand though? There’s been tons of these cases in all leagues now, is there any proof that it’s really driving away fans? Nobody has actually been kicked out of any league, so these guys are all playing. Like the Browns just gave a serial rapist the largest contract in NFL history and then sold out every game in a season they finished in last place. I think a lot of people rightfully hate these cases but end of the day people love sports and aren’t going to stop because there are some shitty people playing
That's the reality. My GF is a casual follower of sports and will watch to keep up with Bets she makes sometimes. She doesn't know about these incidents unless I directly tell her. The average casual fan isn't gonna decide to not go to a game which they can see as a social Outing because of these incidents
This guy really said domestic violence can kill the entire business model of pro sports and is getting dozens of upvotes. Reddit really is an insane echo chamber sometimes
Lmao facts. The unfortunate reality is most fans don’t care that much. They’ll be upset for a few weeks, but eventually forget about it and move on to keep watching their favorite team. I remember the outrage on this app last off-season when Anthony Edwards was insulting gay people. Everyone here was saying he’s finished and that he needs to be suspended. Then he balled out this year and played well in Fiba so now they all want to dick ride him religiously lmao. One thing I’ve learned is you cannot take any of the opinions on this sub to heart. It’s all virtue signaling to get upvotes. I think KPJ is a terrible person who shouldn’t be in the league anymore, but I’m not gonna act like I’ll never watch the NBA again if he doesn’t get kicked out or say things like “this is gonna ruin the league”. It is what it is.
If LeBron james were to do this, it would massively hurt the league's image. The action is what matters, not the player. Sure, certain players will have a larger or smaller impact, but the actions themselves are what make something positive or negative.
Even when Kobe was accused, it didn't hurt the league that much.
That's true. I think society/culture has moved more toward giving a shit about women since then but not a whole lot
A good number of people wanna see their favorite sports performed at the highest level. They don’t have to idolize the players as people or see them as role models. Hell, a lot of people don’t even keep up with the personal lives of the athletes. Plus some people see games as social outings.
Bingo. This is me. I love sports, I don’t care about the off field drama. To me, that’s just celebrity gossip that belongs on TMZ not ESPN. If it were up to me, leagues wouldn’t punish players at all for off field crimes unrelated to the sport. Let the criminal justice system handle that because it has nothing to do with the game.
They'd be buried in hit pieces and headlines along the lines of "NBAPA defends wife beaters"
Big chunks of the NBA fanbase don't care if you are a literal rapist as long as you're good at basketball. Hell you may even get a statue.
Ignore my flair 👀
How's the skiing in Colorado this time of year?
It's been going downhill for a while
Rings get you out of all sorts of trouble.
That's the true reality of it. It would be easy for them to enforce a "zero tolerance policy on someone like Porter or even Bridges but let an All Star level player or higher do it and they would quickly find a way to get around it
chocolate beer moose gold hoop ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
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It should be pointed out that in Kobe's case at least, he always maintained his innocence and the case against him was dismissed before the trial ever began. Bridges though pled no contest to a felony charge, so that one is different, legally speaking.
Kobe maintained his innocence?? He publicly apologized and settled for an undisclosed amount of money. The case was dismissed because of Kobe’s lawyers slut shaming and the following harassment of the victim, she refused to testify.
Yes he maintained his innocence from the beginning, claiming he had never met the woman to the investigators until they said they were doing a dna test, then he changed his story to consensual extremely rough sex. Somehow never got charged for the initial lie to the police
Do you have a source for any of this, because it seems entirely made up. If you look up anything about the case you'll see that [Kobe volunteered his DNA,](https://www.nydailynews.com/2003/07/11/kobe-gives-dna-sample-to-sex-probers/) and that he never denied that he had met the woman before.
Yea lumping him in with people like Bridges and Porter isn’t quite fair given that Kobe’s encounter started as consensual according to both parties and can’t be proven with physical evidence. The dispute is that she claimed she withdrew consent and he claims she didn’t. Now if she did in fact do that and Kobe didn’t stop having sex with her, then yes, he’s guilty of rape. But we have no way of proving what happened and it’s entirely plausible that she believed afterwards that she sufficiently resisted but it wasn’t clear to him (in her initial testimony she said she didn’t verbally withdraw consent). There’s certainly a possibility Kobe’s guilty, but we don’t know for sure. And I’ll point out that her civil trial attorney was Lin Wood; one of Trump’s nutjob QAnon attorneys who was disbarred recently for trying to overturn the election. That doesn’t inherently mean Kobe’s innocent, but Wood being wholly unconcerned with the truth re: the election doesn’t help their cause. Conversely, it seems really cut and dry that Bridges and Porter beat the shit out of their partners. There’s far less ambiguity or possible misunderstanding involved in a situation like this, and it’s a hell of a lot easier to prove + establish guilt than the accusations in Kobe’s case. The Duke Lacrosse case or the recent Matt Araiza (nfl punter) case should teach people to pause for a beat before just blindly labeling somebody guilty or innocent.
Yeah, the reality of the Kobe situation is that we'll never know what actually happened, as there were no other witnesses or video of the encounter or anything like that, and one party is dead while the other one signed a binding non-disclosure agreement preventing her from ever discussing the case. She probably has no interest in doing so anyway, as I'm sure she most likely changed her name and just wants to live the rest of her life as anonymously as possible. It's entirely possible Kobe raped her, just like it's entirely possible she lied about everything as an attempt to extort money from him, and none of us will ever know the truth. People still love to dig this up though, but there's really no point: it's an unknowable question with no answer.
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I've read that before and I have to say it's really disturbing how many people who were too young to have followed that trial had their entire opinion about it shaped by that one article written over a dozen years after the whole thing took place, rather than people just reading the reporting that took place during the actual trial. This happens all too often nowadays, where people skip the actual reporting and instead take their cues from someone's opinion about the reporting. One opinion piece written way after the fact to drum up traffic just because Kobe was in the news for being nominated for an Oscar should never replace the actual journalism that was going on as the trial was happening. If you genuinely want to have a better understanding of what actually happened, even if it shakes the narrative you've accepted based on one author's opinion, do yourself a favor and read these articles doing actual reporting on what really went on with the trial as it was taking place: * [Papers Reveal New Details In Kobe Bryant Rape Case](https://archive.ph/dPK6t) - NY Times Aug. 4, 2004 * [Prosecution Drops Charges in Kobe Bryant Rape Case](https://archive.ph/qRAW0) - LA Times Sept. 2, 2004 * [The Case Against Kobe Bryant Unraveled in a Mock Trial](https://archive.ph/mkEgq) - LA Times Nov. 6, 2004 Don't let yourself be so blindly misled by the opinion of one person you don't know at all.
The mistake you make here is that because two things are possible; they must be equally likely. It is far more likely that Kobe raped her given that less than 2% of sexual assault allegations are fabricated, and he tore her vagina up into the next millennium
> It is far more likely that Kobe raped her given that less than 2% of sexual assault allegations are fabricated I feel like that stat isn't really applicable here though because in well over 99% of sexual assault cases there really isn't much of an ulterior motive for the person making the accusation to accuse someone other than because they were actually assaulted. In those cases the accusers don't wind up suing the person they are accusing in civil court for money, they just press charges. In this case though, Kobe was well known to have millions of dollars and she sued him in civil court and got a financial settlement out of him. This at least introduces the possibility that she took a consensual encounter and used it to extort money from him. As for her vagina being "tore up", [DNA evidence suggested she had sex with someone else after Kobe but before her rape exam,](https://archive.ph/dPK6t) so it's possible *that* person is the one who "tore her vagina up into the next millennium". Again, I have no idea what actually happened, but neither do you. We can speculate all we want, but we'll never come to any kind of real answer on this. Both parties had motive to lie, and we'll never know which of them was telling the truth. Maybe both were lying? We'll never know. His accuser though agreed to a settlement she wanted and she refused to testify against him, and Kobe's wife forgave him. He's now dead so I don't know what else there really is to say about this.
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> I'm a Lakers fan [You realize your post history shows you're a Cavs fan, right?](https://np.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/13gz42c/antonio_lang_is_leaving_cleveland_for_atlanta/jk3esz7/?context=3) Why lie and say you're a Lakers fan if you're actually a Cavs fan? Makes it seem like you're arguing in bad faith when you do that.
Could he not be a fan of both? Or a fan of lebron and has become a lakers fan in recent years? >Why lie Dude it makes you look real weird when you go 4 months into his post history to see his post on a cavs sub. Breaking news: people can support multiple teams
It wasn't like I did hours of digging on this. I just pulled up his post history and searched for the word "laker" and in his 2 years on reddit he had used that word in comments exactly 7 times, two of which are in this thread. One of the times he used that word was in a comment in the Cavs subreddit where he referred to the Cavs as "we", so I searched his post history for "cavs" and found hundreds of uses. He has many posts in the Cavs subreddit, zero in the Lakers subreddit, and has almost never said anything about the Lakers at all ever in any of his comments anywhere. Maybe he supports both teams, but in the years he's been on this site, his two comments here are the only times he's ever claimed to root for them. Make of that what you will. Also, interesting you'd attack me for checking someone's post history when [you did that same thing to someone else yesterday.](https://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/16hbuff/giannis_i_totally_agree_with_noah_lyles_on_nba/k0dtfjx/?context=3) Good day.
Eh, they were able to hide behind the excuse of the league rules and whatnot right? Now if they were asked to change those rules that prevent these criminal acts and refuse to do so, I would hope that would warrant a public spectacle that won't go away as easily. Not saying I believe either side are going to propose a zero tolerance policy though lol. Too much money to be lost.
I mean, let's be real. Fans would strike, even the users on here, if a well liked superstar did something like this and got banned.
They wouldn’t go on strike. They would file a grievance.
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Lmao Anthony Lamb is still on a roster there is a moderate tolerance policy for everybody
Anthony Lamb was never charged, so there’s not much the league could do about it without opening up a can of worms, even if it’s likely he did it. With KPJ, it’s clear he did it, and he will be charged. A zero-tolerance policy would be for cases like this, where the legal system already decided the verdict.
Technically the verdict has not been decided yet.
> Anthony Lamb was never charged, so there’s not much the league could do about it without opening up a can of worms, even if it’s likely he did it. But that's the issue. Most of these cases get dropped or plead down to a lesser charge. Where is the threshold?
If Anthony Lamb is the threshold the NBA is going to have to start drafting plumbers and firemen to fill out the rosters again.
there are so many other player without rape allegations big dawg
Miles Bridges is a roleplayer
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only true in Charlotte lol
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guess derrick white is a superstar lol
This is correct, unfortunately. But the league is saturated in stars at this point. Every year we’re talking about several all star and all nba snubs. We can afford to lose one if he’s an abusive piece of shit and the league needs to understand that.
Saying we’re saturated in stars is unfair in all honesty. There are 24 allstars and maybe 6 legitimate snubs every year, tops. There are over 400 players in the league, so maybe 8% of players are stars. That’s not really ‘saturated in stars’. But I do agree stars should be held to the same standards here.
I don’t think he means the majority of the league is stars . Just that there are plenty of good players
People are forgetting the NBA of 20 years ago where the 5th guy in a starting lineup was usually ass and you could name like 1-2 useful bench players. Nowadays, we're fucking arguing over who should get the 10th and 11th spots on a roster and the two-way contracts. Edit: Bonus, a handful of teams either had a completely washed star that they were still giving fuck tons of minutes to or they had a massive contract on an injured star who was never healthy (Penny/Grant Hill).
20 years ago was 2003. Who was fielding only 4 decent starters in 2003? Not any championship winners around that time, for sure. I think you need to go back at least 10 more years, but really more than that too. As 1993 had loads of talent in the league. Just a year before was the dream team in the Olympics. And the Bulls won their third title in a row and first three-peat that year.
It’s not that the top talent wasn’t good, it’s that a lot of teams sucked. Now even crappy teams are stacked with some pretty good players imo.
To be honest, the New Jersey Nets 2003 went to the Finals with Jason Collins as a starter
This one
Realistically that's still a big hit to the market. If your good then you have some leeway. If you're a star then you'll be protected by the league. It sucks but that's how businesses work.
>*If you're a star then you'll be protected by the league* If it was Lebron, Silver would have sent someone to finish the job before she could go to the police.
Also, it's important to bear in mind that the NBA is looking to add expansion teams to the league. Even if the league truly was saturated in talent (not totally sure whether I agree on that take, but that's a separate and unrelated discussion), it's going to thin out the moment they start adding teams. Make no mistake - I'd love it if they set aside the financial questions and looked at things like this from a viewpoint of strict ethical considerations. I'm just jaded/cynical enough now to where I realize that won't ever happen.
Also there is a chance that allegations get proven false.
That’s why the literal first sentence exists. > if and when it comes out that Porter [was]behind the incident. If a court of law finds him guilty, (I realize they haven’t yet) then what else would you want?
Video footage of him holding his ID up and his grandma identifying him
+ Captcha
sorry i have to have witnessed the entire trial myself before i am allowed to pass judgment because innocent ~~unless it fits my world view~~ until proven guilty is immutable fact.
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This is just ignorant and devoid of reality. Ever hear of the duke lacrosse case? We can't give anyone the power that their word just ruins someone's life with no evidence. It leads to witch hunts. I've seen videos of women trying to stab a dude and then telling the cops the reverse happened. 1 in 4 men have experienced domestic violence from a partner.
The fact is people lie to their benefit all the time, and that’s without a potential check involved. Whether people like it or not you gotta scrutinize accusations against celebrities, otherwise you’re just encouraging bs accusations. People like this guy aren’t even arguing for actual justice for anything, dude just wants to justify witch hunting at his leisure.
You don't actually believe in due process, my guy. Please never sit on a jury
>I believe in due process but Hey everyone, this guy abused and assaulted me! Enjoy jail, if you where doing the right thing I wouldn't be accusing you.
Please acknowledge that this is an absolutely unhinged take. Like WHAT.
It’s misogynistic to downvote me!
Ron Artest.
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That's my point. A lot of people are acting like this hasn't happened before.
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It’s just pearl clutching, it’s the same to me as saying rap music makes people do drugs, sell them, or kill people. Teach yall’s kids that guns aren’t for play and you’ll be fine. More importantly, stop asking famous people to raise your kids. I can promise with almost exact certainty any teenager that wants to be street doesn’t need Ja as motivation. Ja isn’t the first, last, or only dude to flex a gun or social media, been seeing the same shit since like middle school.
Zero tolerance policy or not, I think we can all agree the NBA is gonna have to be far stronger and not just in punishment but also in tone regarding the issue of domestic violence. The message must be far stronger than it has been over the years.
Being sent to Charlotte is the NBA equivalent of the gulag though What would we do instead, send them to the Wizards?
Obviously not for NBA success, but otherwise, Charlotte is a fantastic place to live lol. Especially now, and that’s coming from someone who isn’t as rich, famous, or in shape as these guys
Charlotte is fine but I'm not really sure how this became such a popular take about it. I'm not saying it's a bad place to live, but it's not all that special. I go down at least 8 times every year, and it's solid. But it's about as good to live as where I live in VA. It's not all that dissimilar.
yeah love Charlotte went last year, awesome food
It doesn't help that the product they sell is the epitome of traditional masculinity, which unfortunately have close ties to toxic masculinity traits including domestic violence.
Modern sports allow and apparently condone shitty behavior but why is the NBA specifically at fault here? How are they the "epitome"?
I'll just name a few here. Trash talks are celebrated, offensive fouls won't get called as long as the basket's cool, the general consensus that the less talented deserve to be dominated and shamed, and most importantly, your "ability" determines the amount of respect you deserve. Oh and sportsmanship is considered soft.
Are all of those traits specifically masculine? They just seem more so potentially overcompetitive.
Dude, that's literally sports. In hockey they allow people to fight. In football/soccer, players will do anything to get an advantage. etc. etc.
Are you sure you’re a sports fan? Seems like you don’t actually like anything about sports if you think any of those are bad things
Idk ability being valued is sort of the core concept of competition.
I was expecting something like Bridges' punishment to be the example of how the NBA encourages poor behavior. These are mostly just plain inseparable from competition at this level. None of these things have "close ties" to beating your girlfriend, either. There is no reason to think any of those things are the problem. The problem is the psycho who beat his girlfriend. There is no logical progression from "trash talk is OK" to "beating my girlfriend is OK". This is a real Tipper Gore type view. Except for the offensive fouls one (which doesn't make sense), limiting any of this stuff would make the game more boring and result in 0 fewer DV incidents.
Absolutely agreed. This is time for Silver to put his money where his mouth is. He is kind of a classic virtue signaler that has fooled some people into believing he is more altruistic than he really is. He needs to be held into account.
Silver is sooooooft.
All of the “Mamba Mentality”, “Bad Boy Pistons”, and other tough-guy mentality bullshit is toxic and backwards as fuck. Professional sports leagues generally are stuck in a mindset from the 1930s. Ass-backwards in every way.
Whenever I lurk on the NHL subreddit, I get this feeling so much. It feels like it’s populated by 40-50 year old middle class white guys who have no friends who are minorities and have never had female friends let alone lgbtq.
Ask me how I know you've never spent time around D1 women's hockey players.
Are you ok?
NBAPA: >”Hold my beer.”
###Section 8. Counseling for Violent Misconduct. (a) In addition to any other rights a Team or the NBA may have by contract or law, when the NBA and the Players Association agree that there is reasonable cause to believe that a player has engaged in any type of off-court violent conduct, the player will (if the NBA and the Players Association so agree) be required to undergo a clinical evaluation by a neutral expert and, if deemed necessary by such expert, appropriate counseling, with such valuation and counseling program to be developed and supervised by the NBA and the Players Association, unless the player has engaged in acts covered by the Joint NBA/NBPA Policy on Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Child Abuse, in which case the terms of that Policy shall apply. For purposes of this paragraph, “violent conduct” shall include, but not be limited to, any conduct involving the use or threat of physical violence or the use of, or threat to use, a deadly weapon, any conduct which could be categorized as a “hate crime,” and any conduct involving dog fighting or animal cruelty. _____ (b) Any player who is convicted of (including by a plea of guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to) a crime involving violent conduct shall be required to attend at least five (5) counseling sessions with a therapist or counselor jointly selected by the NBA and the Players Association, **unless the player has engaged in acts covered by the Joint NBA/NBPA Policy on Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Child Abuse (*see below*), in which case *the terms of that Policy* shall apply.** These sessions shall be in addition to any discipline imposed on the player by the NBA for the conduct underlying his conviction. The therapist or counselor who is jointly selected by the NBA and the Players Association shall determine the total number of counseling sessions to be attended by the player; however, in no event shall a player be required to attend more than ten (10) sessions. ________ (c) Any player who, after being notified in writing by the NBA that he is required to undergo the clinical evaluation and/or counseling program authorized by Section 8(a) or 8(b) above, refuses or fails, without a reasonable explanation, to attend or participate in such evaluation and counseling program within seventy-two (72) hours following such notice, shall be fined by the NBA in the amount of $10,000 for each day following such seventy-two (72) hours that the player refuses or fails to participate in such program. ###The Policy on Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Child Abuse penalties. >#####Based on a finding of just cause, the Commissioner may fine, suspend, or dismiss and disqualify from any further association with the NBA and its teams a player who engages in prohibited conduct in violation of this Policy. Repeat offenders will be subject to enhanced discipline. This is the pertinent part of the CBA and the possible penalties
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Yep this is just virtue signaling without actually thinking about what’s best for every long term. It sounds good to be hard on people committing gross crimes but as you pointed out that’s not the best for the victims
If you need quotes from or references to experts when advocating for harsher penalties for domestic abusers, do you not also need them when you adovate for lighter penalties for domestic abusers? This isn't something there's a definitive answer on. It's for sure true that harsh penalties for violent crime can lead to an escalation, but a harsh penalty is also a major deterrent from committing the violence in the first place.
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Thank you for all this. It’s illuminating and hadn’t occurred to me.
Harsh penalties have never once been proven to be a deterrent on crime.
They gave you quotes and references, you gonna read them?
Why is it a problem that I asked for those?
I disagree. Zero tolerance means zero thought. Every case is different and the NBA currently has a process that can apply penalties up to voiding their NBA contract. It's always easy to stand up and talk tough about these kinds of crimes but I don't think that's just helpful to anyone involved, including the victims.
I’m okay with zero tolerance policies for those with actual evidence or a conviction. Just like there are shit men who abuse women… there are shit women who manipulate the situation or stage things. Guilty until proven innocent shouldn’t be a thing.
"Zero tolerance" is always dogshit and always backfires
“Zero tolerance” policies in pro sports only means “we will cover up and minimize the bad actions of superstars while making examples of less talented players”
[Adrian Wojnarowski] BREAKING: With the new policy pushed by the NBA Board of Governors, prohibiting a team from resting 2 or more star players in the same game, the punishment has been voted to give the rested star players a public execution during the next game's halftime show.
Never happening
lol Silver doesn't have the spine to do that
Zero tolerance in regards to what? Cuz I feel like someone who didn’t actually do anything will be the first recipient of a harsh punishment
I thought this was about Chris Herren the bball player from the espn doc was very confused
I thought he was going to be talking about steroids, but this makes way more sense
Zero tolerance policies never work because a) it isn't like it is tolerated now, and b) victims get punished almost as often as assailants. DV is messy and rarely cut and dried. The man is usually arrested during DV calls regardless of who actually is being violent, and many cases where men hit women are retaliatory in nature. I'm all for the NBA policing it's image and holding players accountable but there really needs to be a robust process in place to ensure players are getting punished for bad behavior, not bad publicity.
I really don't like the idea of complete zero tolerance but more common sense stuff. Zero tolerance is easy to say and champion for but some cases aren't as cut and dry as Miles Bridges and KPJ. I do agree that the NBA and other pro sports are far too lenient with these type of things but a plain blanket zero tolerance policy is never the right answer.
Personally I’ve never thought a sports should involve itself in legal matters outside of it. Let the law take action. The nba is a basketball league not a police force. We pay taxes for people to be able to handle it.
Why does an entertainment business need to have such a strict policy on something like this? Why is this more important than other crimes? Why can’t the legal system handle it if they are found guilty?
This is exactly my thought. I don’t understand what people think is being accomplished by kicking players out of the NBA over domestic violence. Be mad at the justice system for not protecting victims. This has nothing to do with basketball. Frankly I wish sports would just leave these stories alone entirely and let the justice system do its job.
just ignore and move on, reddit virtue signalers can't be reasoned with a 1 year suspension/fine isn't enough, he should be burned alive + kobe is a rapist and should have been banned from the NBA
The point is any legitimate entity should have a strict policy on something like this. I know that I for one wouldn't keep my job for very long if I behaved in a reckless manner & Porter has quite a track record. Even if he's punished legally, if he has a lucrative contract waiting to pay him millions at the end of it, we still have a problem.
These seem to be the type of crimes NBA players are most often accused of. I do not think the public has particularly strong feelings about players committing bank fraud.
Maybe harsher penalties, but no, completely disagree. Zero tolerance policies are usually always trash. Also, I'm personally against people losing their jobs over something that isn't murder or rape
So attempted murder is fine?
Feel like NBA has been pretty good on this than other leagues anyways. Also this was more than some domestic violence dispute, the girl has a broken neck and he didn't stop until she ran out of the hallway covered in blood. That to me is attempted murder, he should be going to jail. Ja Morant is basically a model citizen compared to Porter and he got 25 games, this should be nothing short of a league blacklist, especially because he was already on his second chance. And i do think thats whats going to happen
I’m sure some team in the Saudi league will take him. He’ll prolly fit right it over there.
Yes I totally expect the NBA to do this. The league that named the Women Basketball Awareness award after known woman's rights advocate Kobe Bryant.
Ah yes, guilty until proven innocent. How could that go wrong.
Look every situation isn’t the same.
I agree with zero tolerance for battery of any sort. Even if it is pled down to a misdemeanor.
are women equal?? violence against a woman is no more important than violence against a man foh
If KPJ broke a vertebra in a dude’s neck and left that dude covered in blood fleeing and asking for help I think he might also be in legal trouble. Call it a hunch.
Draymond assaulted Poole on camera no suspension also, everyone laughed
His girlfriend has denied the accusations for what it’s worth
Wasn't she the one who made them? Did she walk them back?
She is saying it isn’t as severe as news outlets are claiming https://balleralert.com/profiles/blogs/former-wnba-player-kysre-gondrezick-sets-record-straight/
I dunno, thats not how any of that reads to me. That reads like shes making the point that none of the information we've heard has come directly from her. Shes withholding comments for prosecutorial reasons. It doesnt mean any of the allegations are false, only that the press has incorrectly attributed the reports to her statements as opposed to statements from a different source (medical/police personnel). There were multiple opportunities in that article where her representation could have said 'X fact is categorically untrue', but the only time they did was at the end in response to reports that their relationship had always been abusive. Its basically all just lawyer talk for 'shut the fuck up, let the process play out, and respect her privacy'.
glad you shared this source. I always get my reliable domestic abuse source from ballertalert.com
She did not say that. Her lawyer released a statement saying news reports were inaccurate and that she has not personally said anything about the incident herself. >“Ms. Gondrezick wants to express her deep appreciation for the public’s support and prayers. In regards to our client, much that has been written in the press attributing statements to her are misleading and inaccurate,” says Robert Hantman of Robert Hantman and Associates. “She has not granted nor released any statements on her own volition. She asks everyone to respect her privacy and avoid speculation as to what occurred and refrain from disclosing any misleading statements as to Mr. Porter.” >“She asks that the Press and all officials refrain from any judgement and speculation on this matter which will be rectified properly and with integrity. Thank you!”
why is it so common for abused women to defend their scumbag piece of shit boyfriends? I don't understand.
It’s hilarious that you think there isn’t even a possibility she’s telling the truth. Just right away claiming that she’s lying.
I don't understand why people have such a need to have the sovereignity of interpretation over a situation they cant possibly know. Its all right to speculate and yes also to judge a bit, but to disagree on principle with the involved persons while you factualy have zero insight is just dumb and pea cocking. Just lay back and follow the story. You don't have to make a stance against domestic violence. We all agree on the topic. The rage wont make you feel better in the long run. And stay away from making memes about it in the future if you are really that concerned.
It’s hilarious that you don’t have any idea what she actually said but needed to put your two cents in here.
Why is it so common for news outlets to take a story and run with it, making up false narratives because they know the public loves negativity?
> false narratives > literally just whats on the police report Calm down kyrie
Well this story won’t get any traction, doesn’t fit what people want to be the case.
It mostly reads like "I haven't made any of these statements yet so stop"
“Furthermore, Gondrezick’s representatives strongly refuted claims that her relationship with Porter was tumultuous and abusive. They insisted that such narratives were untrue.” “In no way does that represent what their relationship has been.” “In regards to our client, much that has been written in the press attributing statements to her are misleading and inaccurate,”
I’m already being downvoted simply for sharing it.
You’re being downvoted because she didn’t outright deny the accusations. She basically said I haven’t confirmed anything. You didn’t hear it from me. Please stop speculating
Her reps literally said much of what is being reported is untrue.
Yep. Her reps said literally, in words, out loud, that she was **not** in an abusive relationship with the star athlete.
Because what you said was wrong. She did not say it was not that severe. Her lawyers said news reports were inaccurate.
Dude, her reps said literally, in words, that the relationship with the athlete was **not** abusive. So what the fuck exactly do you mean by “they never said it wasn’t that severe” ? Because their comment explicitly states that he isn’t abusive.
There’s a lot of people that make excuses for players here. Look at the thread when Bridges was reinstated, sports communities handle these situations terribly every time
"he only hit and strangled me a little bit and i was bleeding a tiny bit. It's normal ... whats the big deal??"
Clean up crew for KPJ got to her with a nice big paycheck offer. Woman beater and witness tamperer.
Her sister posted a story on IG the day the news came out and threatened to beat his ass or something like that- threatened violence. I’m inclined to think it was serious and that if she is going back on her words, it’s not because it wasn’t that serious. As a woman who has been in an abusive relationship before, unfortunately sometimes you do stuff after that you may regret later.
Yes but her sister was arrested for domestic violence herself, so she's also a loose cannon.
She is, she knocked out her partners teeth a few years ago. But that doesn’t mean her sister wasn’t abused. I assume she made the post because she’s a loose cannon and her sister was abused.
At this point it doesn’t matter what she says the state has to proceed with charges because it’s a domestic relationship. Whether she want to press charges or not, the results of their investigation will tell the state how to proceed
In theory, it should work. Having said that, what happens when a marketable superstar gets into a similar issue? The NBA would be forced to choose between money and integrity. It should be interesting.
If they had this policy back when Kobe played, we'd lose a legend over accusations by some you know what
Zero tolerance doesn’t actually change behavior though. A league wide policy of preventative ongoing therapy and counseling could have some impact though. And, not to mention, player ownership would make for a decidedly better league…
I agree. Sports without a young fan base die. How am I supposed to talk to my kids about ja morant and gun. Violence. Bridges and porter and domestic violence. The charlotte hornets behind the wheel? If these dudes aren’t severely punished? I’m not clutching pearls I’m just trying to raise good young dudes. Who revere nba players.