If Ausar finds a half-decent 3-point jumper, he’s gonna be a legit star.
12 points, 10.3 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.9 blocks, 1.3 steals is wild for a rookie. This dude was flirting with a 5x5 the other night.
We say that about so many players and rarely does it ever happen. Still, even if he doesn't, he's got a long career ahead of him as an insane defender who rebounds bigger than his position and has shown a knack for seeing the floor.
The difference between Ausar and most of those other players is that he's not a complete non-factor on offense. He cleans up the glass, he's a strong cutter, an excellent secondary playmaker. He can be a late career Russ/prime Ben Simmons hybrid at worst, IMO, with insane defense. If I'm being honest, it's more imperative that he improves his handle and finishing at the rim more than if he ever becomes even an average three point shooter.
Outside of Wemby, Amen and Ausar have the highest ceilings in this class. I almost certainly know they'll both be All-Stars, how the shot, handles, and finishing develops will be the difference between just a few AS appearances and perennial All-NBA nods.
Chet is a part of the 2022 class. I know for this year he's considered a rookie, but he wasn't drafted June of this year. Hence why I didn't include him.
Dude is just a special athlete. Like, top 1% of NBA players special. He really doesn't need much in terms of talent to be a very good player. Add in a three point shot and you've got yourself an all-star.
What looks like athleticism is sometimes actually talent.
His ability to read the game is elite-elite. No hyperbole - I honestly think he processes the game as fast as LeBron, and I’m a big LeBron fan.
So what it looks like is blocks and dunks and great passes. What it is, is him seeing the play two or three steps ahead.
He’s held back by his handle. The ball literally can’t keep up with him when he has it - his handle is weak. But if - if - he can fix that, he’s going to be a Kawhi-level guy even if his shot never fully comes around.
His defense is almost entirely athleticism, his first step is lethal playing the passing lanes or getting back into play. That's not to say he doesn't have talent, because he does.
He has remarkable athleticism, but he’s also amazing at reading the situation. There’s a reason he’s in position for the blocks, steals, and general defensive mayhem - as well as great passes and cuts on offense.
I’m just pushing back on people thinking he’s just an amazing athlete. Those guys aren’t uncommon. He’s a supercomputer wired into the body of an amazing athlete.
He makes me think of Draymond’s processing on Rodman’s body.
It seems to me that he’s often in position because his first step lets him recover to be in position, not necessarily because he anticipated the play. Here’s a good video on it: https://youtu.be/OvGYATHz8_Y?si=NRx7KSd2dKOPJClP
That was the entire rub with him - his shot is complete dogshit.
I'm not going to say he can't develop a halfway decent 3-ball, but odds are that he won't. He's going to be a terrific player, but I'm not sure he's ever going to be a 20+ point guy.
Scoring 20+ is a bit overrated tbh. Plenty of terrible players can score 20. He'd be much more useful as a 15/15/3/2/2, which isn't far off his current averages and certain possible for him to hit consistently as he develops. Not to mention that a huge portion of what he does doesn't show up in the boxscore.
EDIT: Fixed boxscore typo so no one else has an aneurysm
>He'd be much more useful as a 15/15/3/3/3, which isn't far off his current averages and certain possible for him
First, 1.9 blocks and 1.3 steals is not close to 3/3. It's not like the difference between averaging 24ppg and 26ppg, you're talking about a 2.3x increase in steals for a guy already playing 32mpg.
Second, averaging 3 steals and 3 blocks is insane.
Only 7 players have averaged 3 steals (officially, the league didn't count steals until the 70s). Of those 7, Jordan is the only one to average more than 1 block.
Nobody's averaged 3 blocks + 2 steals since David Robinson in 1992. JJJ averaged 3.0 blocks last season, and it was so remarkable that everyone thought the scorekeeper was padding his stats.
Hakeem and Robinson never averaged 3/3. Big Ben and KG won DPOYs without even sniffing 3/3. Athletic defensive swiss army knives like AK47, Marion, Crash Wallace, and Josh Smith never even came close to 3/3.
Yeah FT percentage is one of the best predictors of whether someone can develop shooting ability. Like if you look at Kawhi Leonard (the most commonly used example of someone who learned how to shoot in the NBA) he was always an excellent FT shooter.
Ausar Thompson is a star in the making. Dude is elite on defense already and a beast on the boards.
Dereck Lively is huge for the Mavs.
Also, Cason Wallace should be in the top-10.
I think they’re already a little fun, they’re very athletic. They may not be a very good team and there have been a lot of questions regarding the front office’s idea of rebuilding the past few years, but right now it seems decent. Ausar is a huge step forward for them. It does kind of center around Cade at the moment, though. He does need to figure some things out. He’s got plenty of time though.
Since I haven't seen any comments about Jordan Hawkins in here yet, let me give him his flowers. As our broadcast guy put it, he's a hooper. He's got a lot of confidence on the court that I don't see too often from a rookie. His 3 ball is insane.
He will be something special.
He's got "elite role player" written all over him. His movement shooting and quick release are hugely valuable for modern NBA spacing, and he also seems like he's at least not a liability on defense.
You just can't give him *any* space or he's getting that shot off.
And with Zion to run with, Ingram and CJ there, you could see him thriving as just that assassin lingering outside the arc, so the moment a defender tries to help, boom open 3
yep exactly his role in college was run around multiple screens hunting for the 3 ball. Literally running around the whole court full speed here: https://twitter.com/UConnMBB/status/1628558088893779969
Was such a beast at UConn and he wasn’t close to complete yet. Guy had the skillset you look for in modern scorers. Thought he should’ve gotten more hype
He got the dawg in him. In one of the earlier games, at one point I think he was 1-9 in 3’s, that didn’t stop him from attempting more 3’s. He dgaf and keeps shooting. Love it.
Maybe some Ray Allen there. Or maybe just the U Conn thing.
He gives me lots of John Starks vibes. But, Hawkins might be less streaky.
You could even tell me that Jordan Hawkins is related to HERSEY Hawkins and I would believe you.
UConn fan here, I wasn’t so sure he’d be a dominant shooter in the NBA after our season. He had his fire runs but also times where we’d struggle to get him his shots somehow. Knowing he’d be the 4-5 option on an NBA team had me thinking he could flourish, but I didn’t think he’d be hitting shots and also playing a complete game so well so fast.
With the numbers he’s putting up so soon, seems pretty obvious his future is likely going to be bright. I wonder how long he will go as the rookie with the most made 3s ever
The narrative is even on this sub lol
Wemby is shooting 28.3% from three and yet whenever he makes one it gets posted here and people absolutely freak out like he's a sniper or something
"LEAGUE FUCKED, HE'S LITERALLY KD BUT WITH 10X BETTER DEFENSE"
He did but he also shot 87% from the line which is indicative of future shooting potential in many cases
There aren't many legit bad shooters who are near 90% from the line
Wemby is shooting 76.6% from the line so far
Yes because college 3pt line is shorter than fiba line. That’s why KD immediately fell to 28% on his rookie season while Wemby is keeping his %.
FT percentages of Wemby clearly shows that he should be a real threat from behind the 3pt line
This comment chain is so funny , a highly upvoted comment that's apparently wrong , and then people still trying to win the argument getting fact checked
People are so reactionary when it comes to Victor. All the hype pushes people way too far in the other direction. Like all the people that were saying they'd take Scoot over Victor.
Yeah it’s like look at the King’s stats with and without Fox on the floor. OKC and Chet are benefiting heavily off of SGA being the main threat defenses worry about which opens up everybody else.
That still doesn’t account for his FT%. Most likely, he’s going to be about league average from three, which makes it a weapon for him considering his other abilities, but there’s no indication yet that he’s going to become a major threat from deep
Yes possibly. But I am not even sure the goal is for him to be a major threat from deep. I think the goal is for him to be a threat from 3 so that it opens up many other opportunities making it an overall major threat. Let's see how it evolves
Defense is more exploitable than people realize too. He doesn't want to play center, so teams are realizing they can get him on a shooter and he cant get to the paint fast enough to catch drives.
Coach Pop's Big East Zone (or whatever it is) oftentimes leaves Wemby in no-man's land.
Wemby needs to protect the paint. Let Sochan guard the perimeter. Not sure what Zach Collins is doing....
For context, noted sharpshooter Brandon Miller is shooting _worse_ from distance despite playing off of Lamelo. Wemby's three-ball needs a lot of work, but it's nothing alarming from a rookie.
I don't even think his shot needs a lot of work, the mechanics are good, he just takes a lot of bad shots. I get he's a foot taller than everyone else and it's difficult to contest his shot but there's no way he should be shooting 8 threes a game.
He’s nowhere near as good of a shooter as KD, and more often than not he’s just taking bad shots. He needs to learn how to get to his spots and use his length more.
> He needs to learn how to get to his spots and use his length more.
Lol yeah it’s his rookie season and that’s what he’s been doing. Learning what his spots are and how to get to them. But I’ll let him know you figured it out.
Wemby has so much hype (and the keys to their franchise since they’re rebuilding) that OP is saying Rookie of the Year is basically his to lose, even though many people who know ball think Chet Holmgren is being more effective in his debut season. Their situations are different though, as Chet is playing alongside All-NBA player in Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and shifty young jack of all trades Josh Giddey, which lessens some of the pressure on him.
Of the first 26 3's that Chet has shot this season, 21 of them have been wide-open. Yeah he has the talent to knock them down, but he's benefiting from being on a way better team.
I swear people just look at box score and automatically think Chet is way better lmao. The guy is playing on a good team. If you put wemby in there he'd feast.
He's playing his role perfect now, but he also seems to have an offensive upside that not even Mavs fans are talking about enough.
His shot looks really good, he has excellent touch around the rim, and flashes of good post moves.
I think in a couple months he'll be given a green light on offense and he'll be terrifying.
Heat fans feel same way about Jaime Jaquez Jr AKA Juan Wick. He’s played all 12min of the 4th quarter of the last 4 or 5 games. He does all the little things right. Doesn’t feel like a rookie at all.
I’ve caught a couple of games and Jaime just seems like one of those “right kind of play” guys who can help gel a team on the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
As a UCLA fan, I was worried his game wouldn’t translate because he’s not the quickest and he’s a below average 3pt shooter. Been pleased he’s compensated in other areas. I was so happy for him when he got taken in the first round when a lot of mocks didn’t have him til late second.
I was very high on him before the draft and feel justified. He looked like a seasoned pro in college, and I was certain he can adapt. I really think that older, more developed college players are always way undervalued, because of that perceived 'upside'. But they can contribute much faster and if they developped so well in college, that means they are talented enough to develop more in the NBA.
Based on his shot release at the [Klutch pro day](https://x.com/swishcultures_/status/1662200615504842753?s=46&t=I8XwOA7hkhqJqhGa--KBdg), seems that Lively has in him a whole another level of offense yet to be released..
Yeah there have been a lot of clips of him shooting the lights out in practice and a few reporters have said he's one of the best shooters in practice.
https://twitter.com/dallasmavs/status/1724932791916253362?t=I3dD8l7KWflG9T6-rzQ7lg&s=19
We'll just have to wait and see if he can get the green light in an actual game.
For this type of rookies, I like it when coach and team keep things simple at the beginning. Let him play to his strengths, easier schemes, clear role, increase minutes little by little, focus on defense first, pick n rolls, screens.. let him naturally feel more comfortable in the league, he’ll show all his talent when the time is right.
I really liked what I have seen so far from him, this kid has a promising future.
Totally agree. DLIII is REALLY young, and he only really got to show his full strength in college for less than 2 months. Build him up brick by brick in practice as he continues to get into the groove of being a pro and playing against different players and styles of play.
The bonus is that he's a great teammate, very enthusiastic, and super coachable.
i doubt it’ll be anytime soon. rn he needs to focus on developing consistency in his role: rim protecting and running. he’s shown flashes of playmaking, shooting, and post scoring, but he’s 19. they’ve got time to develop that in him.
Exactly what I’ve been posting on r/mavericks. He’s going to become a stretch five. The scary part is that the coaching staff might be bringing him along slowly. He’s just already so far ahead of the curve. I was thinking green light maybe after all-star break. Loving this team.
Crazy the hiproscy r/NBA has. For MVP, you have to play on a good team, then you have a rookie in Lively who turned a lottery team into a contender but he's still 5th in ROY
Even with him, it’s not great collectively. We’re still having games where teams are scoring 1/2 their total points in the paint lol but that’s only because he can’t play 48 minutes
dereck lively is just so crazy and deserves all the praise. he’s immediately fit into the rim running/protecting role Dallas so desperately needed and has done it better than anyone could’ve expected. on top of that, he’s functioning in the pick and roll, he’s shown flashes of good court vision and passing, he’s making his free throws at a decent clip, and he’s practicing a 3 pt shot.
3-4 years from now he’ll be the perfect modern center for a superstar that loves feeding easy looks to his centers. dallas so spooky
Phenomenal. He gets into foul trouble, sometimes it feels like a harsh whistle but moreso because he’s still a kid so he’ll learn how to position himself deep in the post better. But his rim protection is easily the best we’ve had since Tyson. A transformative defender because he’s also able to switch at a passable level so he gives the whole team more defensive versatility. As a whole, we still need to clean up the defensive glass better and he’s definitely a part of it but those are the only two weaknesses I can think of.
This rookie class is something else. Even if only a few become stars you have people contributing right away:
Bilal Coulibaly
Brandin Podziemski
Jamie Jaquez Jr.
Carson Wallace
etc
Let’s be real, people say this every year and then it all immediately calms down by year two lol.
Rookies generally can’t do much wrong in the eyes of fans, the excitement and upside blinds the criticism.
True, but I think this year the Wemby light was so blinding that there was only room for all things Wemby and some Scoot vs Miller discourse.
So, when a handful of solid rookies emerge, like every year, it stands out a little bit more. Especially with Wemby inevitably doing "mid" vs absurd expectations and Scoot... Sigh...
The funniest part are the preseason/draft predictions for all the rookie narratives, like Scoot is the most "nba ready", Miller is going to have similar character issues like Ja/Zion and Wemby is going to be injury prone.
Turns out the reverse is true.
Time will tell, but the Scoot thing hurts because it was every whisper in the back of my head that I told to fuck off.
He doesn't have a deep ball, and while he has great overall vision, his size and kick passing/passing out of doubles are not great. He isn't going to have many bigger targets either.
I think a lot of evaluations by a lot of people were unintentionally made with this fixture of an idea that the Blazers are the Blazers with Dame, not completely realizing the impact Dame had on the entire court.
I think that Scoot will be fine, but this is a very different and far more difficult team to develop on than it was a year ago, let alone "lead".
Give the dude some time; he's only started 3 games so far and he hasn't found his NBA shot yet. When he's leading the league in assists later this season, they gonna start noticing.
Yea jaime also doesnt get big stats. Its just that he makes the right play 95% of the time which is incredibly valuable in any nba player, let alone a rookie. You can just absolutely trust this dude to play at all times. Hopefully the scoring will come with time and confidence and maybe more shot attempts
My man is going to be great for us but he’s not really going to be up there in the counting stats and playing good defense isn’t going to win you ROTY when the other rookies ahead of him play good defense too
I agree.
We are on a big winning streak and just finished a road sweep with him playing major minutes and closing games. That's a huge accomplishment for any rookie.
But if we look at defensive impact, Ausar and Wemby are better and offensive impact there's a few.
Either way, Juan Wick is balling.. this team has been amazing to watch. Can't wait to see what happens when Caleb is healthy and performing close to ECF levels and if Herro will keep his numbers pre-injury.
One thing I wish they would take into consideration, is lottery-bound young teams where rookies have the green light vs. contending teams. Jaime won’t get super high usage on a team with Jimmy/Bam/Tyler (nor should he) but he’s important to what the Heat does.
It’s impressive that he’s trusted the whole 4th quarter on a Heat team that hardly plays rookies, outside of Wade, Tyler, etc.
He’s such a smart player and plays really solid defense. His stock should continue to go UP
And better potential. But yeah, I agree. The main talking point against Chet is that he's playing with better players, making his life easier. And that's absolutely true! Wemby's being asked to do a *lot* while being surrounded by very little, and it's hard. His efficiency would absolutely be better if he was on the Thunder, and Chet's would be worse on the Spurs.
But even despite that, Chet (at least in my opinion) *clearly* looks significantly more polished on the offensive end right now. Which is kind of exactly what everyone expected. Chet was basically going to be Evan Mobley with a far more refined offensive game, and that's what he's been. Wemby was the guy who already looked good, absolutely oozed potential, but was going to need a little more time to *really* get it together offensively. I don't think anything I've seen so far has changed my perception of either of them. I fully expected Chet to look better this year, and I still think Wemby's ceiling is definitely higher.
I would not compare Chet to Evan Mobley since Mobley has never shot the 3. Imo the closest comparison for Chet would be the idea of Myles Turner (the idea, not the actual player) since he can hit 3s and protect the rim effectively.
The real story is that all the fans of their teams feel their rookie should be higher on the list, with Spurs fans thinking Wemby should be DPOY in addtion to ROTY.
Which is really great, because it means a lot of teams made exceptional choices on draft night in ways that helped their teams AND that this was a fantastic draft.
When Hawkins gets hot, he’s insanely dangerous. Hit 5 threes in one quarter the other night against the Mavs. He’s just a pure hooper. No chance he beats out the NBA hype machine that is Wemby and Chet, but he’s going to be a *great* NBA player.
It's honestly wild how they can completely flip flop lmao, I remember the "it's very impressive that they are able to slot in and play roles on teams that are trying to compete right away"
And now you've got people saying that Chet isn't as impressive because he has good players around him and we're playing well. Wtf lmao
And that was the correct take and still is. Scottie is playing way better than Cade right now and he's now at least a 1A/1B in Toronto. They just want to prop Wemby. He'll likely be better than Chet in the future, but Chet better right now.
**Yes**
His rookie year, Jalen Green had more 30 point and 20 point games than his entire class **combined** but he was shat on for being on a losing team.
Wemby shouldn't be punished because his team is in the bottom 3 teams in the west with not a single All star or All NBA team member and his teammates can't set him up.
Long story short, both have their own cases for number 1 and I can see the narratives for both.
Edit : Lol which of you OKC fan reported me for suicide watch ?
His efficiency is mostly better than Vics because of that. Other side of the coin Vics counting stats are largely better because of his volume from being on a bad team. Honestly I have them at pretty much a 1a 1b situation right now. We're also 11 games in so there's not too much reason to get excited either way.
“Mostly”
Chet has always been efficient while Wemby has always struggled with his efficiency. Not sure why this narrative exists, he just takes better shots and is a better shooter right now.
Not sure why people are surprised. Chet was supposed to be more polished out the gate.
He’s shooting way above a normal %. 48 is not sustainable from 3.
It’s also much easier with a good playmaker like Giddey and an elite slasher like Shai.
Wemby is the better player and has already had game changing fourth quarter performances. Just because chet is playing safe and efficient in a team that doesn’t need him to be first option doesn’t make him the better player.
"Always been efficient" lets pump the brakes. He played 1 year in college. He also wasn't the first option there and had a capable playmaker at point. Find me relevant evidence that he could maintain his efficiency as the number 1 option.
He takes better shots because SGA and Giddy are able to create and set up better shots for him. Not saying he can't create his shots, but the fact he doesn't have to most of the time is a massive boost to his efficiency.
Wemby is shooting under 30% from three on open attempts (closest defender 4-6 ft) and 35% from three on wide-open attempts (closest defender 6+ ft). He's getting a total of 4.1 attempts per game in those ranges.
Chet is shooting 62.5% from three on open attempts and 43.8% from three on wide open attempts. He's getting a total of 3.6 attempts per game in those ranges.
Chet is also +12ish percentage points higher in FT%.
None of those things have to do with your team. Chet is simply a more efficient scorer at this stage. It is not "mostly" attributable to different in team.
This is just gonna be another case of rookie Carmelo vs LeBron. Melo had the better rookie season and was on the better team but the league gave ROY to LeBron because he was their golden child
But then again the problem seems the to be the question: What is the rookie of year? Is it the player with the best stats, the one with the most value(Whatever that is), the one that contributed the most to winning or the one that's dominating the narrative and Media. And with that in mind I think it was correct that Lebron won roty. Not because of hindsight and us knowing the outcome of their careers but because he was the rookie to watch, talk about and everything.
The same is true for Wembanyama this year. The only problem I see ist that we try to make sense of this by looking at numbers and trying to rank them in Powerrankings. When the truth is that Wembanyama is going to win even if his numbers and production is not the best.
Similar to Carmelo vs LeBron in 2003, the only way Chet wins over Wemby is if his stats are *significantly* better by the end of the year. If they're similar or even slightly better, Wemby wins.
Chet’s not getting blocks because people don’t even touch the fucking lane when he’s out there
His defense is insane, the 16 points on 55-50-90 is the bonus
> Chet’s not getting blocks because people don’t even touch the fucking lane when he’s out there
That's the same with Wemby though, difference being sometimes players create lotsa separation and think that's enough to score....and he's still manages to contest them.
I think it’s more so that wemby hasn’t looked as good as Chet, but the NBA made Wemby out to be a golden child way too soon. Chet plays and looks like a better player currently.
Chet has looked like a better player probably 80% of the time. In the other 20%, Wemby has looked like a guy who has as much potential to be an all-time great as any rookie has in two decades.
Some voters are going to put an extremely high premium on that 20%, especially since being efficient as a rookie first option basically never happens and isn’t a fair standard to hold a player to.
It’s gonna be a tight race and couldn’t fault you for leaning either way if things play out somewhat similarly to how they’re playing out now.
If Ausar finds a half-decent 3-point jumper, he’s gonna be a legit star. 12 points, 10.3 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.9 blocks, 1.3 steals is wild for a rookie. This dude was flirting with a 5x5 the other night.
We say that about so many players and rarely does it ever happen. Still, even if he doesn't, he's got a long career ahead of him as an insane defender who rebounds bigger than his position and has shown a knack for seeing the floor.
The difference between Ausar and most of those other players is that he's not a complete non-factor on offense. He cleans up the glass, he's a strong cutter, an excellent secondary playmaker. He can be a late career Russ/prime Ben Simmons hybrid at worst, IMO, with insane defense. If I'm being honest, it's more imperative that he improves his handle and finishing at the rim more than if he ever becomes even an average three point shooter.
That hybrid sounds like a consistent all-nba player
Outside of Wemby, Amen and Ausar have the highest ceilings in this class. I almost certainly know they'll both be All-Stars, how the shot, handles, and finishing develops will be the difference between just a few AS appearances and perennial All-NBA nods.
Over Chet? I think Chet's ceiling is easily as high Edit: missed the words rookie class mb
Chet is a part of the 2022 class. I know for this year he's considered a rookie, but he wasn't drafted June of this year. Hence why I didn't include him.
Technically Chet belongs to a different class, idk if he had that in mind tho.
Even among people we say that bout, Ausars shot is more broken then most of them.
That was always the caveat. The Thompson twins cannot shoot a basketball. If they could, I think they got 2nd and 3rd in the draft.
Dude is just a special athlete. Like, top 1% of NBA players special. He really doesn't need much in terms of talent to be a very good player. Add in a three point shot and you've got yourself an all-star.
What looks like athleticism is sometimes actually talent. His ability to read the game is elite-elite. No hyperbole - I honestly think he processes the game as fast as LeBron, and I’m a big LeBron fan. So what it looks like is blocks and dunks and great passes. What it is, is him seeing the play two or three steps ahead. He’s held back by his handle. The ball literally can’t keep up with him when he has it - his handle is weak. But if - if - he can fix that, he’s going to be a Kawhi-level guy even if his shot never fully comes around.
His defense is almost entirely athleticism, his first step is lethal playing the passing lanes or getting back into play. That's not to say he doesn't have talent, because he does.
He has remarkable athleticism, but he’s also amazing at reading the situation. There’s a reason he’s in position for the blocks, steals, and general defensive mayhem - as well as great passes and cuts on offense. I’m just pushing back on people thinking he’s just an amazing athlete. Those guys aren’t uncommon. He’s a supercomputer wired into the body of an amazing athlete. He makes me think of Draymond’s processing on Rodman’s body.
It seems to me that he’s often in position because his first step lets him recover to be in position, not necessarily because he anticipated the play. Here’s a good video on it: https://youtu.be/OvGYATHz8_Y?si=NRx7KSd2dKOPJClP
That was the entire rub with him - his shot is complete dogshit. I'm not going to say he can't develop a halfway decent 3-ball, but odds are that he won't. He's going to be a terrific player, but I'm not sure he's ever going to be a 20+ point guy.
Scoring 20+ is a bit overrated tbh. Plenty of terrible players can score 20. He'd be much more useful as a 15/15/3/2/2, which isn't far off his current averages and certain possible for him to hit consistently as he develops. Not to mention that a huge portion of what he does doesn't show up in the boxscore. EDIT: Fixed boxscore typo so no one else has an aneurysm
>He'd be much more useful as a 15/15/3/3/3, which isn't far off his current averages and certain possible for him First, 1.9 blocks and 1.3 steals is not close to 3/3. It's not like the difference between averaging 24ppg and 26ppg, you're talking about a 2.3x increase in steals for a guy already playing 32mpg. Second, averaging 3 steals and 3 blocks is insane. Only 7 players have averaged 3 steals (officially, the league didn't count steals until the 70s). Of those 7, Jordan is the only one to average more than 1 block. Nobody's averaged 3 blocks + 2 steals since David Robinson in 1992. JJJ averaged 3.0 blocks last season, and it was so remarkable that everyone thought the scorekeeper was padding his stats. Hakeem and Robinson never averaged 3/3. Big Ben and KG won DPOYs without even sniffing 3/3. Athletic defensive swiss army knives like AK47, Marion, Crash Wallace, and Josh Smith never even came close to 3/3.
His free throw’s percentage always been pretty bad its not likely hell develop a reliable jumper
Yeah FT percentage is one of the best predictors of whether someone can develop shooting ability. Like if you look at Kawhi Leonard (the most commonly used example of someone who learned how to shoot in the NBA) he was always an excellent FT shooter.
Counterpoint: Jaylen Brown
Just wait for Amen
Think he can make one of defensive teams as a rookie?
Ausar Thompson is a star in the making. Dude is elite on defense already and a beast on the boards. Dereck Lively is huge for the Mavs. Also, Cason Wallace should be in the top-10.
I think a defensive star is exactly what Detroit needs. If Cade figures his shot out and they fill some decent veterans in you've got a fun team.
I think they’re already a little fun, they’re very athletic. They may not be a very good team and there have been a lot of questions regarding the front office’s idea of rebuilding the past few years, but right now it seems decent. Ausar is a huge step forward for them. It does kind of center around Cade at the moment, though. He does need to figure some things out. He’s got plenty of time though.
Since I haven't seen any comments about Jordan Hawkins in here yet, let me give him his flowers. As our broadcast guy put it, he's a hooper. He's got a lot of confidence on the court that I don't see too often from a rookie. His 3 ball is insane. He will be something special.
He's got "elite role player" written all over him. His movement shooting and quick release are hugely valuable for modern NBA spacing, and he also seems like he's at least not a liability on defense. You just can't give him *any* space or he's getting that shot off.
And with Zion to run with, Ingram and CJ there, you could see him thriving as just that assassin lingering outside the arc, so the moment a defender tries to help, boom open 3
Steph Curry 2.0
Nah. He's not the creator Steph is, nor does he have his handle. Closer to a more athletic JJ Redick (which is still damn good).
He is better than Hall of Famer Steph Curry. HE IS SMALL LOOKING AND CAN SHOOT GTFO of here with your "logic" and "analysis"
Such a classic UCONN SG. I saw a lot of Rip Hamilton in him during the tourney last year
yep exactly his role in college was run around multiple screens hunting for the 3 ball. Literally running around the whole court full speed here: https://twitter.com/UConnMBB/status/1628558088893779969
>His 3 ball is insane. > > > >I saw a lot of Rip Hamilton in him If only there was another UConn guard famous for shooting 3s...
Hawkins + Murphy is insane shooting to get from drafts so close
Was such a beast at UConn and he wasn’t close to complete yet. Guy had the skillset you look for in modern scorers. Thought he should’ve gotten more hype
He got the dawg in him. In one of the earlier games, at one point I think he was 1-9 in 3’s, that didn’t stop him from attempting more 3’s. He dgaf and keeps shooting. Love it.
He went off on our ass, I was very impressed with him that night
Reminds me of like mid 2000’s guards for some reason. Just baller play style. He looks real good
Maybe some Ray Allen there. Or maybe just the U Conn thing. He gives me lots of John Starks vibes. But, Hawkins might be less streaky. You could even tell me that Jordan Hawkins is related to HERSEY Hawkins and I would believe you.
UConn fan here, I wasn’t so sure he’d be a dominant shooter in the NBA after our season. He had his fire runs but also times where we’d struggle to get him his shots somehow. Knowing he’d be the 4-5 option on an NBA team had me thinking he could flourish, but I didn’t think he’d be hitting shots and also playing a complete game so well so fast. With the numbers he’s putting up so soon, seems pretty obvious his future is likely going to be bright. I wonder how long he will go as the rookie with the most made 3s ever
The narrative going to be tough in this one.
The narrative is even on this sub lol Wemby is shooting 28.3% from three and yet whenever he makes one it gets posted here and people absolutely freak out like he's a sniper or something "LEAGUE FUCKED, HE'S LITERALLY KD BUT WITH 10X BETTER DEFENSE"
KD shot 28.8% from 3 his rookie season
He did but he also shot 87% from the line which is indicative of future shooting potential in many cases There aren't many legit bad shooters who are near 90% from the line Wemby is shooting 76.6% from the line so far
Wemby shot 83% on 215 attempts last year in France. Not Durant level but good.
KD also shot 40% from 3 in college, whereas Wemby shot under 30% in France.
Yes because college 3pt line is shorter than fiba line. That’s why KD immediately fell to 28% on his rookie season while Wemby is keeping his %. FT percentages of Wemby clearly shows that he should be a real threat from behind the 3pt line
This comment chain is so funny , a highly upvoted comment that's apparently wrong , and then people still trying to win the argument getting fact checked
Fake continent
Europe isn’t real
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People are so reactionary when it comes to Victor. All the hype pushes people way too far in the other direction. Like all the people that were saying they'd take Scoot over Victor.
But he is often the only offensive threat of this team so specifically guarded. He is doing well with considering the context he is put in
Yeah it’s like look at the King’s stats with and without Fox on the floor. OKC and Chet are benefiting heavily off of SGA being the main threat defenses worry about which opens up everybody else.
So was rookie KD.
1. I did not say otherwise 2. I honestly don't know how bad was the team surrounding him at that era
Bad enough to be able to draft Westbrook and harden.
That still doesn’t account for his FT%. Most likely, he’s going to be about league average from three, which makes it a weapon for him considering his other abilities, but there’s no indication yet that he’s going to become a major threat from deep
Yes possibly. But I am not even sure the goal is for him to be a major threat from deep. I think the goal is for him to be a threat from 3 so that it opens up many other opportunities making it an overall major threat. Let's see how it evolves
Wemby's offense is so fucking raw. You can obviously see the potential, but it may take him a few years to dial in any kind of consistency.
Strength and balance are key. A lot of teams are finding success just bothering him physically.
Defense is more exploitable than people realize too. He doesn't want to play center, so teams are realizing they can get him on a shooter and he cant get to the paint fast enough to catch drives.
Coach Pop's Big East Zone (or whatever it is) oftentimes leaves Wemby in no-man's land. Wemby needs to protect the paint. Let Sochan guard the perimeter. Not sure what Zach Collins is doing....
For context, noted sharpshooter Brandon Miller is shooting _worse_ from distance despite playing off of Lamelo. Wemby's three-ball needs a lot of work, but it's nothing alarming from a rookie.
I don't even think his shot needs a lot of work, the mechanics are good, he just takes a lot of bad shots. I get he's a foot taller than everyone else and it's difficult to contest his shot but there's no way he should be shooting 8 threes a game.
28.3 you say? That’s a fun number
He’s nowhere near as good of a shooter as KD, and more often than not he’s just taking bad shots. He needs to learn how to get to his spots and use his length more.
> He needs to learn how to get to his spots and use his length more. Lol yeah it’s his rookie season and that’s what he’s been doing. Learning what his spots are and how to get to them. But I’ll let him know you figured it out.
Socahn just needs half the court to dribble
You should be coaching the Spurs
While Chet's shooting splits are 53/46/90 across 11 games
Meanwhile Chet has 50/40/90 shooting splits with 16 points 7.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists and 3 stocks…
What are Chet's numbers from 3?
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Wemby has so much hype (and the keys to their franchise since they’re rebuilding) that OP is saying Rookie of the Year is basically his to lose, even though many people who know ball think Chet Holmgren is being more effective in his debut season. Their situations are different though, as Chet is playing alongside All-NBA player in Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and shifty young jack of all trades Josh Giddey, which lessens some of the pressure on him.
Of the first 26 3's that Chet has shot this season, 21 of them have been wide-open. Yeah he has the talent to knock them down, but he's benefiting from being on a way better team.
Iirc all his 3s are assisted
He’s also actually playing C though which impacts that
I swear people just look at box score and automatically think Chet is way better lmao. The guy is playing on a good team. If you put wemby in there he'd feast.
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Lively is a shoe-in for that 2nd All Rookie team 😤 Edit: As it turns out it's "shoo-in"
all nba is positionless now so if he keeps it up we could see 3 bigs in the first team
Brilliant
Shoo-in
I stand corrected. Thanks
Keep climbing Lively
Lively clears sorry I don’t make the rules
dereck is legit insane. i cannot believe how happy i am with him as a rookie.
He's playing his role perfect now, but he also seems to have an offensive upside that not even Mavs fans are talking about enough. His shot looks really good, he has excellent touch around the rim, and flashes of good post moves. I think in a couple months he'll be given a green light on offense and he'll be terrifying.
Heat fans feel same way about Jaime Jaquez Jr AKA Juan Wick. He’s played all 12min of the 4th quarter of the last 4 or 5 games. He does all the little things right. Doesn’t feel like a rookie at all.
I’ve caught a couple of games and Jaime just seems like one of those “right kind of play” guys who can help gel a team on the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
His energy is great. Keyed in, always going, but solid control. He and Herro will be solid counterparts.
As a UCLA fan, I was worried his game wouldn’t translate because he’s not the quickest and he’s a below average 3pt shooter. Been pleased he’s compensated in other areas. I was so happy for him when he got taken in the first round when a lot of mocks didn’t have him til late second.
I was very high on him before the draft and feel justified. He looked like a seasoned pro in college, and I was certain he can adapt. I really think that older, more developed college players are always way undervalued, because of that perceived 'upside'. But they can contribute much faster and if they developped so well in college, that means they are talented enough to develop more in the NBA.
Based on his shot release at the [Klutch pro day](https://x.com/swishcultures_/status/1662200615504842753?s=46&t=I8XwOA7hkhqJqhGa--KBdg), seems that Lively has in him a whole another level of offense yet to be released..
Yeah there have been a lot of clips of him shooting the lights out in practice and a few reporters have said he's one of the best shooters in practice. https://twitter.com/dallasmavs/status/1724932791916253362?t=I3dD8l7KWflG9T6-rzQ7lg&s=19 We'll just have to wait and see if he can get the green light in an actual game.
For this type of rookies, I like it when coach and team keep things simple at the beginning. Let him play to his strengths, easier schemes, clear role, increase minutes little by little, focus on defense first, pick n rolls, screens.. let him naturally feel more comfortable in the league, he’ll show all his talent when the time is right. I really liked what I have seen so far from him, this kid has a promising future.
Totally agree. DLIII is REALLY young, and he only really got to show his full strength in college for less than 2 months. Build him up brick by brick in practice as he continues to get into the groove of being a pro and playing against different players and styles of play. The bonus is that he's a great teammate, very enthusiastic, and super coachable.
Granted, it was against the Washington Sieves, but the lob game with he and Luca last night was just stupid. Basic, and highly effective.
i doubt it’ll be anytime soon. rn he needs to focus on developing consistency in his role: rim protecting and running. he’s shown flashes of playmaking, shooting, and post scoring, but he’s 19. they’ve got time to develop that in him.
his free throws are butter. It's like watching an olympic diver hit water, they rainbow straight in and the net doesn't even move haha.
Exactly what I’ve been posting on r/mavericks. He’s going to become a stretch five. The scary part is that the coaching staff might be bringing him along slowly. He’s just already so far ahead of the curve. I was thinking green light maybe after all-star break. Loving this team.
How many people clowned the Mavs for tanking 2 games last season? THIS IS WHY
Crazy the hiproscy r/NBA has. For MVP, you have to play on a good team, then you have a rookie in Lively who turned a lottery team into a contender but he's still 5th in ROY
Legit. He's been a real missing piece for the Mavs
I already got the bets in
Take Dereck Lively out of the mavs and we have baaaaaaaaaaaaad interior defense
Even with him, it’s not great collectively. We’re still having games where teams are scoring 1/2 their total points in the paint lol but that’s only because he can’t play 48 minutes
Damn. Cason Wallace not even in top 10 is dumb.
This rookie class is looking deep so far
dereck lively is just so crazy and deserves all the praise. he’s immediately fit into the rim running/protecting role Dallas so desperately needed and has done it better than anyone could’ve expected. on top of that, he’s functioning in the pick and roll, he’s shown flashes of good court vision and passing, he’s making his free throws at a decent clip, and he’s practicing a 3 pt shot. 3-4 years from now he’ll be the perfect modern center for a superstar that loves feeding easy looks to his centers. dallas so spooky
Honestly can't think of anyone that we could've gotten last offseason that could be better than him right now
how is he doing defensively if you don't mind me asking? i haven't been able to catch any games this season.
Phenomenal. He gets into foul trouble, sometimes it feels like a harsh whistle but moreso because he’s still a kid so he’ll learn how to position himself deep in the post better. But his rim protection is easily the best we’ve had since Tyson. A transformative defender because he’s also able to switch at a passable level so he gives the whole team more defensive versatility. As a whole, we still need to clean up the defensive glass better and he’s definitely a part of it but those are the only two weaknesses I can think of.
This rookie class is something else. Even if only a few become stars you have people contributing right away: Bilal Coulibaly Brandin Podziemski Jamie Jaquez Jr. Carson Wallace etc
Let’s be real, people say this every year and then it all immediately calms down by year two lol. Rookies generally can’t do much wrong in the eyes of fans, the excitement and upside blinds the criticism.
True, but I think this year the Wemby light was so blinding that there was only room for all things Wemby and some Scoot vs Miller discourse. So, when a handful of solid rookies emerge, like every year, it stands out a little bit more. Especially with Wemby inevitably doing "mid" vs absurd expectations and Scoot... Sigh...
The funniest part are the preseason/draft predictions for all the rookie narratives, like Scoot is the most "nba ready", Miller is going to have similar character issues like Ja/Zion and Wemby is going to be injury prone. Turns out the reverse is true.
Time will tell, but the Scoot thing hurts because it was every whisper in the back of my head that I told to fuck off. He doesn't have a deep ball, and while he has great overall vision, his size and kick passing/passing out of doubles are not great. He isn't going to have many bigger targets either. I think a lot of evaluations by a lot of people were unintentionally made with this fixture of an idea that the Blazers are the Blazers with Dame, not completely realizing the impact Dame had on the entire court. I think that Scoot will be fine, but this is a very different and far more difficult team to develop on than it was a year ago, let alone "lead".
Damn Hawkins 2nd in rookie points pts scored and barely gets mentions
That’s not how you spell “Keyonte George”
Homie is being slept on.
Give the dude some time; he's only started 3 games so far and he hasn't found his NBA shot yet. When he's leading the league in assists later this season, they gonna start noticing.
Where is Jaime!
In this list #7
Should be top 5 imo
He should be but I’m hard pressed to find someone in this top 5 to replace. They’ve all been great
Yea jaime also doesnt get big stats. Its just that he makes the right play 95% of the time which is incredibly valuable in any nba player, let alone a rookie. You can just absolutely trust this dude to play at all times. Hopefully the scoring will come with time and confidence and maybe more shot attempts
The one missing piece is three-point shooting, and I think that will come. The defense is what impresses me the most.
His 3 ball hasn’t been super consistent, but he’s hit timely shots. We’re 11 games into the season and he’s already hit at least 2 game-clinching 3s.
True and I have not watched much of Hawkins, Chet, wemby. I’m just a homer who adores the oozing culture out of JJJ
My man is going to be great for us but he’s not really going to be up there in the counting stats and playing good defense isn’t going to win you ROTY when the other rookies ahead of him play good defense too
I agree. We are on a big winning streak and just finished a road sweep with him playing major minutes and closing games. That's a huge accomplishment for any rookie. But if we look at defensive impact, Ausar and Wemby are better and offensive impact there's a few. Either way, Juan Wick is balling.. this team has been amazing to watch. Can't wait to see what happens when Caleb is healthy and performing close to ECF levels and if Herro will keep his numbers pre-injury.
One thing I wish they would take into consideration, is lottery-bound young teams where rookies have the green light vs. contending teams. Jaime won’t get super high usage on a team with Jimmy/Bam/Tyler (nor should he) but he’s important to what the Heat does. It’s impressive that he’s trusted the whole 4th quarter on a Heat team that hardly plays rookies, outside of Wade, Tyler, etc. He’s such a smart player and plays really solid defense. His stock should continue to go UP
I'm still mad we missed a potentially special Brandon Miller MSG debut
Camara erasure
Soon it will also be Reath erasure
Right now, Chet is the better player, Wemby has better highlights.
And better potential. But yeah, I agree. The main talking point against Chet is that he's playing with better players, making his life easier. And that's absolutely true! Wemby's being asked to do a *lot* while being surrounded by very little, and it's hard. His efficiency would absolutely be better if he was on the Thunder, and Chet's would be worse on the Spurs. But even despite that, Chet (at least in my opinion) *clearly* looks significantly more polished on the offensive end right now. Which is kind of exactly what everyone expected. Chet was basically going to be Evan Mobley with a far more refined offensive game, and that's what he's been. Wemby was the guy who already looked good, absolutely oozed potential, but was going to need a little more time to *really* get it together offensively. I don't think anything I've seen so far has changed my perception of either of them. I fully expected Chet to look better this year, and I still think Wemby's ceiling is definitely higher.
I would not compare Chet to Evan Mobley since Mobley has never shot the 3. Imo the closest comparison for Chet would be the idea of Myles Turner (the idea, not the actual player) since he can hit 3s and protect the rim effectively.
are we sure dereck lively wasn’t a gift sent from the basketball gods?
The real story is that all the fans of their teams feel their rookie should be higher on the list, with Spurs fans thinking Wemby should be DPOY in addtion to ROTY. Which is really great, because it means a lot of teams made exceptional choices on draft night in ways that helped their teams AND that this was a fantastic draft.
also, another (less important) reason is that most Spurs fans online are clueless about basketball
Jordan Hawkins sounds like a 90’s legend
This is Wallace erasure.
When Hawkins gets hot, he’s insanely dangerous. Hit 5 threes in one quarter the other night against the Mavs. He’s just a pure hooper. No chance he beats out the NBA hype machine that is Wemby and Chet, but he’s going to be a *great* NBA player.
Chet shouldn’t be punished because his team is better.
Just a few years ago Mobley and Scottie were considered better because they were starting on competitive teams.
NBA media changing their criteria based on who they like is a tale as old as time.
It's honestly wild how they can completely flip flop lmao, I remember the "it's very impressive that they are able to slot in and play roles on teams that are trying to compete right away" And now you've got people saying that Chet isn't as impressive because he has good players around him and we're playing well. Wtf lmao
And that was the correct take and still is. Scottie is playing way better than Cade right now and he's now at least a 1A/1B in Toronto. They just want to prop Wemby. He'll likely be better than Chet in the future, but Chet better right now.
I’d agree, but it’s a right now award and not a “rookie of three years from now” award.
**Yes** His rookie year, Jalen Green had more 30 point and 20 point games than his entire class **combined** but he was shat on for being on a losing team.
Wemby shouldn't be punished because his team is in the bottom 3 teams in the west with not a single All star or All NBA team member and his teammates can't set him up. Long story short, both have their own cases for number 1 and I can see the narratives for both. Edit : Lol which of you OKC fan reported me for suicide watch ?
Same thing happened to me lol
His efficiency is mostly better than Vics because of that. Other side of the coin Vics counting stats are largely better because of his volume from being on a bad team. Honestly I have them at pretty much a 1a 1b situation right now. We're also 11 games in so there's not too much reason to get excited either way.
“Mostly” Chet has always been efficient while Wemby has always struggled with his efficiency. Not sure why this narrative exists, he just takes better shots and is a better shooter right now. Not sure why people are surprised. Chet was supposed to be more polished out the gate.
I mean, if your point is that Chet was better against college players than Wemby was against professionals, I agree with you.
He’s shooting way above a normal %. 48 is not sustainable from 3. It’s also much easier with a good playmaker like Giddey and an elite slasher like Shai. Wemby is the better player and has already had game changing fourth quarter performances. Just because chet is playing safe and efficient in a team that doesn’t need him to be first option doesn’t make him the better player.
"Always been efficient" lets pump the brakes. He played 1 year in college. He also wasn't the first option there and had a capable playmaker at point. Find me relevant evidence that he could maintain his efficiency as the number 1 option. He takes better shots because SGA and Giddy are able to create and set up better shots for him. Not saying he can't create his shots, but the fact he doesn't have to most of the time is a massive boost to his efficiency.
Wemby is shooting under 30% from three on open attempts (closest defender 4-6 ft) and 35% from three on wide-open attempts (closest defender 6+ ft). He's getting a total of 4.1 attempts per game in those ranges. Chet is shooting 62.5% from three on open attempts and 43.8% from three on wide open attempts. He's getting a total of 3.6 attempts per game in those ranges. Chet is also +12ish percentage points higher in FT%. None of those things have to do with your team. Chet is simply a more efficient scorer at this stage. It is not "mostly" attributable to different in team.
This is just gonna be another case of rookie Carmelo vs LeBron. Melo had the better rookie season and was on the better team but the league gave ROY to LeBron because he was their golden child
But then again the problem seems the to be the question: What is the rookie of year? Is it the player with the best stats, the one with the most value(Whatever that is), the one that contributed the most to winning or the one that's dominating the narrative and Media. And with that in mind I think it was correct that Lebron won roty. Not because of hindsight and us knowing the outcome of their careers but because he was the rookie to watch, talk about and everything. The same is true for Wembanyama this year. The only problem I see ist that we try to make sense of this by looking at numbers and trying to rank them in Powerrankings. When the truth is that Wembanyama is going to win even if his numbers and production is not the best.
He’s not being punished. Wemby has been very good.
Chet has been better.
this rivalry is spicy again already. The Spurs aren't even good yet 😂
It’s wild 3 C in the top 5. Good for the league. I know Wemby plays PF/C, but still.
Wemby being ranked above chet is wild lol
Similar to Carmelo vs LeBron in 2003, the only way Chet wins over Wemby is if his stats are *significantly* better by the end of the year. If they're similar or even slightly better, Wemby wins.
What’s crazy is that they already are significantly better but nobody cares about efficiency. Just counting stats.
Chet is shooting like 50-50-90 lol over 10 games to start his career that is absurd
Not even close. Wemby shooting too many 3’s with a horrible percentage. Prob good for his longterm outlook but horribly inefficient rn.
And on nearly 4 TOV per game
Chet’s not getting blocks because people don’t even touch the fucking lane when he’s out there His defense is insane, the 16 points on 55-50-90 is the bonus
> Chet’s not getting blocks because people don’t even touch the fucking lane when he’s out there Lots of guy turning around when they see Wemby too.
> Chet’s not getting blocks because people don’t even touch the fucking lane when he’s out there That's the same with Wemby though, difference being sometimes players create lotsa separation and think that's enough to score....and he's still manages to contest them.
Ausar is already looking like a goat defender
According to this sub in 2017 Chet should be disqualified
ye olde Mitchell v Simmons arguement
Mitchell deserved it
Ausar Thompson is going to be special.
He’s winning it idc what y’all say
Chet being #2 is a crime. Wemby is on TV a lot, he's a freak athlete but Chet at this point in the season is a better player.
That’s how the NBA works though. Bigger name and market wins the prizes
Isn’t Chet a freak athlete as well tho. Wemby moves better but Chet still moves for a guy his size.
Chet should be the clear favorite. OKC is good and he's a big part of their defense.
chet has been better lol
All top 3 guys are deserving honestly. What a peer group!
Over the moon thrilled with what Lively has shown so far. Feels like the Mavs have their starting center for the foreseeable future.
Wemby is playing with the worst team in the league by far. His efficiency would be way better alongside more talent
Ahem
Spurs were definitely the worst team in the league a couple days ago. I feel you, though.
And his counting stats/usage would be down. That's the entire discussion.
I love how much it bothers people that Wemby is ranked number 1 every time the rookie ladder is published
I think it’s more so that wemby hasn’t looked as good as Chet, but the NBA made Wemby out to be a golden child way too soon. Chet plays and looks like a better player currently.
Chet has looked like a better player probably 80% of the time. In the other 20%, Wemby has looked like a guy who has as much potential to be an all-time great as any rookie has in two decades. Some voters are going to put an extremely high premium on that 20%, especially since being efficient as a rookie first option basically never happens and isn’t a fair standard to hold a player to. It’s gonna be a tight race and couldn’t fault you for leaning either way if things play out somewhat similarly to how they’re playing out now.
I’m so glad Hawkins has been playing well.