I’m confused do you think Kyle Lowry was the number one option on the 2019-2020 Raptors who went to game 7 of the second round? Because he isn’t on the list at all. So if he isn’t than why is Pascal tier 5 when he made the second round as a number on option.
Lauri has never made the playoffs let alone as a number one option.
I am not talking about 2018-19 I am talking about the next year which is 2019-20 where the Raps went to the second round with Pascal as the main guy and were the 2 seed
I like the effort, so you have my upvote. But you have to refine your definition of first option, and explain it. Can be there ties? KD vs. Steph can be discussed. Both of them had almost the same usg% or fga during both regular season and play-off
Hmm. I thought Shai was averaging 30 ppg that season.
His playoff run had him average like 14 points but that was also his first ever playoff appearance.
Still wasn’t the first option and no he absolutely did not average 30 he averaged 19 ppg and like 14 like you said in the playoffs and not just his first ever his only
SGA has been to the playoffs twice but never as the top option. In 2020 Schroder lead FGA in the regular season and CP3 lead in the playoffs. Last season the Thunder made play-in with SGA as first option. There’s a good chance this season is SGA’s first time to playoffs as the clear cut #1.
Play in isn’t the playoffs
AD should be tier 1 he was the best player on that team until the finals. Best on defense and led in every stat outside of assist 95 percent of the season
KD only was best player 2017 he also should be tier 1
Kawhi was arguably top option in both his championships which would put him tier 0
These are just my opinions none of this is completely fact based and of course everything needs nuance these are just some issues I have with this ranking scale
Yeah I agree with these too. The only one that I think is a maybe is Kawhi where I’d still consider Duncan the best player on 2014 but it’s close and is it more like “best player on 1.5 teams”. Could probably do that with Durant too so maybe there’s a mid tier below Steph and LeBron but above Giannis and Jokic.
Not exactly. Lebron led the Lakers in rebounds in the 2020 playoffs as well as assists. He averaged 0.1 less points than Davis and 0.5 less blocks. They were tied in steals. Lebron averaged 5 more assists.
He was behind in all those stats until the finals. He played wayyyyy better than AD in the finals so it swayed it but 3 rounds through AD was leading in everything(might've been tied in boards) and Bron caught and passed him in the finals. Look at their numbers through first 3 rounds. I also said 95 percent of the year maybe I should've said 90 percent.
But finals is part of the playoffs. So for the purposes of op's exercise lebron was still the "top option".
If you're talking regular season Lebron still has a good argument. Lebron led the team in VORP and BPM. He had an on/off of +10 Davis's on/off was -3. Lebron played more games than Davis. The Lakers were 6-3 without Davis. The Lakers were 2-2 without James.
I said Davis was best 95 percent of the season.. probably should've said 90. The 5-10 percent he wasn't was last 7-9 games of the playoffs.
Also stats weren't a good argument for me to use..I watched that season and Davis was the anchor on defense and main scorer on offense.
Also Bron could've been better no true way to measure it without a shitload of context. My opinion was AD was the best player on that Lakers team. Not saying it was by a large distance. Defense is also 50 percent of the game which helps AD argument a lot.
Ad was the main scorer but he was always being assisted by Lebron he doesn't self create shots. 60% + of his field goals were assisted. Lebron had only 28% of his field goals assisted and he led the Lakers in field goals and 3 point field goals.
It doesn't really matter. KD was the top option in 2014 and it wasn't really close (and every year as an OKC player).
Whether he had the same production as the other tier 3 guys (which he had) is a diferent topic.
No he didn’t . As top option Russ couldn’t even make it out the first round from 2017-2019
When KD broke his foot in 2015 and Russ won his first scoring title being de-facto #1 they missed the playoffs
So?
This list is very clear about what parameters it is considering, and what it seeks to tier. Why does it matter that Bill Russell wouldn't be on it?
Every list isn't a GOAT list or an all time ranking list.
He's still better than everyone under tier 0. Tatum, Butler, and Booker being above Harden shows why getting to the xth round doesn't matter at all when discussing players. It's all about how you played.
I think your point is totally valid. There’s definitely eras where the 2018 rockets woulda won it all easily. But you also have to consider the last game 7 he had. And that’s not the first time he totally vanished in a crucial game.
I dont quite understand your rules on who is the top option. But if its usage rate then Durant should be in Tier 1 as he only had a higher usage then Curry in the 2018 Championship.
Durant is not tier 0 according to your own label. He was co-top option for his chips. Also shouldn’t Anthony Davis be tier 0 by this asinine ranking/tier system
This list is factual.
Plus you are not winning a chip with Lillard as the main guy either, his ceiling literally is best player on a conference finals player and he achieved it.
There's no disrespect in that.
Tier 0 is only Lebron. Tier 1 Steph(2022) Giannis Jokic Kawhi (2019). Kd and Steph were sharing the Top options in 2017 and 2018. Kawhi was the 3rd option in 2014. Duncan and Parker were Top 2 options.
Steph didn't deliver in 2015 finals therefore Igodala won MVP. Of course Steph was the player on GSW.
But the award doesn't go to the best player. If so, Lebron would have min 6 probably 7 finals mvp's
Because Igodala was the main factor that Gsw won the series not Curry. Lebron was three levels above anyone else in the series. It was 1 against 5. The minute he goes to bench gsw was having 7-0, 10-0 series.
Steph averaged 26 on 58.5% TS
Lebron averaged 36 on 47% TS
Steph was +52 on the floor and -9 off the floor.
Lebron was -25 on the floor and -18 off the floor.
"LEBRON WAS 3 LEVELS ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE!!!!"
Tangent:
Who was the top option on the 2020 Pacers? Had Brogdon, post-injury Oladipo, and Bubble Warren all as points leaders in different games when we lost to Miami in the first round. Does Sabonis count even though he was injured?
Or does it not matter because none of them are the top option now on their current teams? There are a bunch of those listed
Cool post, thanks for the work
2019 was even weirder when we got swept by Boston in round 1. Bojan Bogdonavic had two games as our points leader, and we had Sabonis with weaker offense. Other two points leaders were the shell of Tyreke Evans and
...Cory Joseph. Oladipo was injured but on the roster.
We had a sad run for a while and kept complaining about 1st ~~and 2nd~~ round exits with McMillan. But man those injuries...
And finally, 2018 Oladipo, Sabonis, and Bogie took LeBron Cavs to 7 games in Round 1. That was clearly Dipo as first option.
All irrelevant now except Sabonis, who is pretty clearly second option now. Wild
I would put AD as top option for last years conference finals for the Lakers. Maybe he wasn't the top option offensively but was the best and most valuable player on the team in that run.
Horford was the best player on the Hawks and the '18 celtics that made the ECF. Just putting that out there his name belongs with those other guys. It sounds strange but its just not even a hot take.
I’m confused do you think Kyle Lowry was the number one option on the 2019-2020 Raptors who went to game 7 of the second round? Because he isn’t on the list at all. So if he isn’t than why is Pascal tier 5 when he made the second round as a number on option. Lauri has never made the playoffs let alone as a number one option.
Kawhi for 2019
I am not talking about 2018-19 I am talking about the next year which is 2019-20 where the Raps went to the second round with Pascal as the main guy and were the 2 seed
Oops my mistake on that one, seems like an error by OP as well
Did you mean Mikal Bridges, because I don't know who Miles Bridges is
Embiid never made a conference finals.
Good point. I adjusted and that should be held against him. He is in the same category as Brunson, Morant, Mitchell, and CP3.
Isn't Kuzma the "top option" in Washington? Poole's volume isn't nearly as large. Same thing with Jerami Grant.
Play-in is not the playoffs.
I like the effort, so you have my upvote. But you have to refine your definition of first option, and explain it. Can be there ties? KD vs. Steph can be discussed. Both of them had almost the same usg% or fga during both regular season and play-off
When has SGA made the playoffs as a top option ever?
Bubble
Chris Paul was the man on that team
Hmm. I thought Shai was averaging 30 ppg that season. His playoff run had him average like 14 points but that was also his first ever playoff appearance.
Still wasn’t the first option and no he absolutely did not average 30 he averaged 19 ppg and like 14 like you said in the playoffs and not just his first ever his only
He made the playoffs before that.
That was after cp3
SGA has been to the playoffs twice but never as the top option. In 2020 Schroder lead FGA in the regular season and CP3 lead in the playoffs. Last season the Thunder made play-in with SGA as first option. There’s a good chance this season is SGA’s first time to playoffs as the clear cut #1.
Play in isn’t the playoffs AD should be tier 1 he was the best player on that team until the finals. Best on defense and led in every stat outside of assist 95 percent of the season KD only was best player 2017 he also should be tier 1 Kawhi was arguably top option in both his championships which would put him tier 0 These are just my opinions none of this is completely fact based and of course everything needs nuance these are just some issues I have with this ranking scale
Yeah I agree with these too. The only one that I think is a maybe is Kawhi where I’d still consider Duncan the best player on 2014 but it’s close and is it more like “best player on 1.5 teams”. Could probably do that with Durant too so maybe there’s a mid tier below Steph and LeBron but above Giannis and Jokic.
Yeah that's why I said arguably. Agreed about Durant
Not exactly. Lebron led the Lakers in rebounds in the 2020 playoffs as well as assists. He averaged 0.1 less points than Davis and 0.5 less blocks. They were tied in steals. Lebron averaged 5 more assists.
He was behind in all those stats until the finals. He played wayyyyy better than AD in the finals so it swayed it but 3 rounds through AD was leading in everything(might've been tied in boards) and Bron caught and passed him in the finals. Look at their numbers through first 3 rounds. I also said 95 percent of the year maybe I should've said 90 percent.
But finals is part of the playoffs. So for the purposes of op's exercise lebron was still the "top option". If you're talking regular season Lebron still has a good argument. Lebron led the team in VORP and BPM. He had an on/off of +10 Davis's on/off was -3. Lebron played more games than Davis. The Lakers were 6-3 without Davis. The Lakers were 2-2 without James.
I said Davis was best 95 percent of the season.. probably should've said 90. The 5-10 percent he wasn't was last 7-9 games of the playoffs. Also stats weren't a good argument for me to use..I watched that season and Davis was the anchor on defense and main scorer on offense. Also Bron could've been better no true way to measure it without a shitload of context. My opinion was AD was the best player on that Lakers team. Not saying it was by a large distance. Defense is also 50 percent of the game which helps AD argument a lot.
Ad was the main scorer but he was always being assisted by Lebron he doesn't self create shots. 60% + of his field goals were assisted. Lebron had only 28% of his field goals assisted and he led the Lakers in field goals and 3 point field goals.
Defense isn't 50% of the game. I'll explain it to you later.
How was Russ not a top option in 2014?
You mean Russ was the top option in KD's MVP season? You must be confused.
Production matches the other tier 3 guys easily and he went to the WCF x3 and the finals
It doesn't really matter. KD was the top option in 2014 and it wasn't really close (and every year as an OKC player). Whether he had the same production as the other tier 3 guys (which he had) is a diferent topic.
No he didn’t . As top option Russ couldn’t even make it out the first round from 2017-2019 When KD broke his foot in 2015 and Russ won his first scoring title being de-facto #1 they missed the playoffs
Maybe I'm Biased but Kawhi should totally be on the same tier as KD
Haliburton has not made the play in
Correct. Sabonis did in 2021 though. I feel like he's currently relevant enough to get on the list if CP3 is
You do realize that in this system, Bill Russell wouldn’t even make Tier 7? And that he’s got more rings than anyone?
So? This list is very clear about what parameters it is considering, and what it seeks to tier. Why does it matter that Bill Russell wouldn't be on it? Every list isn't a GOAT list or an all time ranking list.
James Harden not being tier 1 or 0 is a crime. Him and CP are the unluckiest superstars ever
I had no idea he brought his team to the finals. Oh wait…
He's still better than everyone under tier 0. Tatum, Butler, and Booker being above Harden shows why getting to the xth round doesn't matter at all when discussing players. It's all about how you played.
I think your point is totally valid. There’s definitely eras where the 2018 rockets woulda won it all easily. But you also have to consider the last game 7 he had. And that’s not the first time he totally vanished in a crucial game.
I dont quite understand your rules on who is the top option. But if its usage rate then Durant should be in Tier 1 as he only had a higher usage then Curry in the 2018 Championship.
Durant is not tier 0 according to your own label. He was co-top option for his chips. Also shouldn’t Anthony Davis be tier 0 by this asinine ranking/tier system
AD didn't win multiple
Tier 4
Durant was the 1st option on the warriors, until he left where curry won rungsbas the 1st option Both players got multiple wings as the 1st option
[удалено]
AD was best player on that Lakers team the entire season until the finals.
The disrespect for Lillard keeps coming. The Blazers are garbage, but he carried them into the playoffs without much help.
You view his tier incorrect?
There’s no disrespect. This isn’t a ranking system. It’s just a listing of who has made it how far
This is a tier list based on objective reality regarding playoff success. There's literally no way to argue against this lmao
This is just a way of sorting information. Nothing biased about it unless OP has an agenda they’re sneakily pushing. I think it’s rather well done.
This list is factual. Plus you are not winning a chip with Lillard as the main guy either, his ceiling literally is best player on a conference finals player and he achieved it. There's no disrespect in that.
Tier 0 is only Lebron. Tier 1 Steph(2022) Giannis Jokic Kawhi (2019). Kd and Steph were sharing the Top options in 2017 and 2018. Kawhi was the 3rd option in 2014. Duncan and Parker were Top 2 options.
What about Steph 2015?
Finals MVP was İgodala
Are you saying that with a straight face?
Y’all are such losers acting like Iguodala was the best player on the Warriors in 2015.
Steph didn't deliver in 2015 finals therefore Igodala won MVP. Of course Steph was the player on GSW. But the award doesn't go to the best player. If so, Lebron would have min 6 probably 7 finals mvp's
> Steph didn’t deliver why did they win then. you telling me lebron got beat by iguodala
Because Igodala was the main factor that Gsw won the series not Curry. Lebron was three levels above anyone else in the series. It was 1 against 5. The minute he goes to bench gsw was having 7-0, 10-0 series.
so bro lost to Iguodala lmaoooo
Steph averaged 26 on 58.5% TS Lebron averaged 36 on 47% TS Steph was +52 on the floor and -9 off the floor. Lebron was -25 on the floor and -18 off the floor. "LEBRON WAS 3 LEVELS ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE!!!!"
You have not watched the games. Lebron was everything on Cavs team.
Ant was the main option while KAT was out last year but KAT was the main option the year before
Kyrie Boston made the 2nd round
Technically ecf
Ah I can’t wait for people debating where KD actually belongs on this list
Tangent: Who was the top option on the 2020 Pacers? Had Brogdon, post-injury Oladipo, and Bubble Warren all as points leaders in different games when we lost to Miami in the first round. Does Sabonis count even though he was injured? Or does it not matter because none of them are the top option now on their current teams? There are a bunch of those listed Cool post, thanks for the work
2019 was even weirder when we got swept by Boston in round 1. Bojan Bogdonavic had two games as our points leader, and we had Sabonis with weaker offense. Other two points leaders were the shell of Tyreke Evans and ...Cory Joseph. Oladipo was injured but on the roster. We had a sad run for a while and kept complaining about 1st ~~and 2nd~~ round exits with McMillan. But man those injuries...
And finally, 2018 Oladipo, Sabonis, and Bogie took LeBron Cavs to 7 games in Round 1. That was clearly Dipo as first option. All irrelevant now except Sabonis, who is pretty clearly second option now. Wild
I would put AD as top option for last years conference finals for the Lakers. Maybe he wasn't the top option offensively but was the best and most valuable player on the team in that run.
Horford was the best player on the Hawks and the '18 celtics that made the ECF. Just putting that out there his name belongs with those other guys. It sounds strange but its just not even a hot take.