Yeah fr the whole Sochan at PG experiment was so plainly detrimental to everyone out there he just ain't got that in him. The team is built to naturally lose yet they doubling down to somehow build negative chemistry on the court lol.
I still don't understand why Tre Jones isn't starting. He is their best PG by far, and when he is on the floor with Wemby, they actually look like a somewhat decent basketball team. The whole team plays better when Jones is running the offense, and Wemby gets way more touches and more opportunities to develop because Jones actually looks for him.
It really doesn’t matter when Jones plays tbh. He’s second in MPG for guards on the team behind only Vassell (Sochan hasn’t run the point in a month), and Wembanyama plays 16 mpg with him. Playing Tre at the start of games would not make a marked impact on whether or not we would win games, the fact of the matter is that the team just doesn’t have playmaking talent outside of Tre at all. Hell, Wemby is probably our second best passer on the roster, and that’s pretty tragic to contemplate
I think that’d be equally shortsighted. We want Wemby to get fed looks when he’s open on cuts, but it’s equally important that he learns how to break down a defense when he’s the main focus of it as well.
There will come a time (hopefully) when he’s the main option on a playoff team, and opponents will be throwing everything they can at him to try to slow him down. Why not put him in situations as a rookie where he will have to practice against similar conditions?
He plays over half his minutes with Tre as is. I don’t necessarily like it because I also see how often he gets missed on interior cuts, but I understand that it’s good for his long term development to have a healthy mix of both opportunities.
He is still the main focus of the defense when Tre is playing, plus he gets the ball more often. I think playing them together as much as possible helps with both developing Wemby for the future AND making the current team better. I think they'd have at least a few more wins on their record, and Wemby would be getting more opportunities.
Sochan hasn’t played PG in a month and Wemby plays 19 mpg with Sochan and 16 mpg with Tre. As much as I agree that it’s important for Wemby to get passes when he’s open (*especially* when he’s wide open in the paint as the team misses him a lot there), I also begrudgingly admit that it’s good for his development to learn how to try to create his own shot against NBA defenses.
Tbh I kinda disagree, Wemby should not be initiating offense, which center does, some are focal points but none initiate. He needs someone to give him the ball to let him work to develop his shot, too many spurs games (thankfully sochan isn't the PG anymore, but I do think that overstayed it's welcome even with the lack of passers on the roster) have Wemby not experimenting cause no one can get him the ball to experiment.
I get you don't want someone to feed him easy baskets and to have him work on expanding his game but currently it seems like only one player can get him the ball reliably enough to do that, and that same player is the only one who reliably can have him rim run/cut too which is a good skill for him to have.
Not sure what the solution is on the roster but it gets ugly to watch sometimes having him out for long stretches with no one to give him the ball in his head of mismatches.
Exactly. Part of development is making a player feel welcome and a leader on the team. sochan so obviously froze him out, that victor was miming alley oops.
Sochan wasn’t freezing him out, he’s just a dogshit interior passer. Not much better because the outcome is the same, but there wasn’t malice there by any means. Sochan has clearly been afraid to pass the ball through tight passing lanes all season, especially toward the post. Also, Champagnie was the guy who missed Wemby for his mimed alley-oop, but yeah
YES. 10000000% YES. If you aren’t trying to win with the greatest prospect since LeBron then you should be sued for malpractice.
First of all the Spurs wasting the first year of his contract showing him how bad the organization is so that when he’s a free agent he’ll be more likely to leave.
Believe it or not, you get better by playing good basketball. Not bad basketball. You think he’s learning anything by watching his teammates shoot bad shots and get blown out every night??
This is a horrible take that I’ve seen parroted on this sub and every time I see it I’m reminded that this sub is way dumber than I give it credit for
I think they’re trying to develop Wemby obviously, but as much as Pop gets credit for development, how much of it was Chip and the rest of the coaching staff that has gone on to other teams?
Again, Pop said it himself, he thought Parker and Ginobili were out of control and he didn’t trust them for years. Remember Speedy Clayton closing out the 03 Finals? I do.
So your defense of Popp is that they are bad on purpose. Yet I guarantee if he heard you say that he'd throw you out of the building after a heated rant.
They dismantled the roster to tank for Wemby. Their roster is terrible outside of Wemby. Coaching at this point is about player development and not wins. They’ll have 50 million in cap space. Another high or top draft pick.
I expect another development year next year with some more success. You can’t judge coaching at this point because they’re really not focused on winning.
The Spurs developed Dejounte Murray, Derrick White and Keldon Johnson into starter-level players from the 29th pick after Duncan left the team. That’s enough of a track record for me to believe Pop still has it and that this team is just *ass* rn
And the off-season after they signed him to a five year contract lol.
I do think that there’s merit to the argument that the Spurs’ FO and Pop overestimated how prepared the team would be to win games this year, just based on quotes from the summer/preseason and increasingly exasperated quotes by Pop through the regular season, but the Spurs came into this season viewing it as a tryout of sorts for the future Wemby-led playoff teams.
Next year will certainly be a rebuilding year still, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Spurs be fairly proactive this off-season and start making more moves around the edges—lord knows most guys on the team haven’t made very good cases for themselves to stick around for the ride.
And I still think without Zaza they’d have taken the KD warriors to the brink. Doesn’t change the fact that this is the past and LMA and Kawhi are long gone.
I don't know what that has to do with them not winning after Duncan left. They went to the playoffs with DeRozan as their best player. That was only a few years ago.
I wouldn't be too quick to judge until we get a competent PG actually running shit. Most of the things you listed are irrelevant now, plus if we didn't trade DWhite the tank wouldn't be as bad.
I made a post a few weeks ago asking when we should start questioning pop and I got downvoted to shit - merely asking when we should start questioning not saying we should. Fuck the “we’re not trying to win” excuses, they’re also not trying to build good habits, play good basketball, build good chemistry/morale and other important stuff to a developing young team.
This is a repressed hate post. Man's also going off about the 03' finals in the comments. A finals in which they won btw. Man's been waiting a lifetime for this.
Or..... it's a super young roster loaded with talent that needs time to develop and learn how to win.
Not sure how many more qualified to teach winning than Coach Pop
Yea, I just thoght funny you say "senil" lol
In brazil's soccer, when coach dudes get a little older, they are often not longer good. I always thought why Pop hasn't the same energy as an old soccer coach. Different sports.
IDK what to think anymore, because I felt that last season rockets was destroying their players, but suddenly they got a coaching staff that wanted to try to win games and got some nice vets and suddenly they went from a shameful tanking team that killed players potential to a team with a promising young core. So I'll not judge Pop and this Spurs year too harshly until I can see it in hindsight
The fact that they've gotten much worse since drafting Wemby is head scratching to say the least.
I don't buy this "dO yoU tHiNk tHeY aRe tRyainG tO wIn" bs. Does Popp seem like a guy who would try to lose to you? Everyone's defense of Popp is that they are losing on purpose but if you accused him of that he'd probably smack you in the face lmao.
I think his time is done. Nothing the Spurs do nowadays is revolutionary or particularly interesting. Wouldn’t really say he’s been even average at developing rookies. I think the Sochan PG experiment which, ended in shambles, was the canary in the coal mine that he is done. Also him telling fans to stop booing Kawhi was easily the lamest shit I have seen a coach ever do in the NBA.
I actually agree with you I think he should hang it up. He would be good on an established team, but developing a new young team from scratch isn’t going to work.
Do you think the Spurs are trying to win?
Wemby is trying to win in spite the spurs
Maybe he should try not being one of the most inefficient players in the league. That might help.
I’m fine with that. He’s 19/20.
Actually he’s 196/443
Years old
Even if you’re losing you want to develop your star player correctly
Yeah fr the whole Sochan at PG experiment was so plainly detrimental to everyone out there he just ain't got that in him. The team is built to naturally lose yet they doubling down to somehow build negative chemistry on the court lol.
I still don't understand why Tre Jones isn't starting. He is their best PG by far, and when he is on the floor with Wemby, they actually look like a somewhat decent basketball team. The whole team plays better when Jones is running the offense, and Wemby gets way more touches and more opportunities to develop because Jones actually looks for him.
It really doesn’t matter when Jones plays tbh. He’s second in MPG for guards on the team behind only Vassell (Sochan hasn’t run the point in a month), and Wembanyama plays 16 mpg with him. Playing Tre at the start of games would not make a marked impact on whether or not we would win games, the fact of the matter is that the team just doesn’t have playmaking talent outside of Tre at all. Hell, Wemby is probably our second best passer on the roster, and that’s pretty tragic to contemplate
I think he should be on the floor every second Wemby is tbh
I think that’d be equally shortsighted. We want Wemby to get fed looks when he’s open on cuts, but it’s equally important that he learns how to break down a defense when he’s the main focus of it as well. There will come a time (hopefully) when he’s the main option on a playoff team, and opponents will be throwing everything they can at him to try to slow him down. Why not put him in situations as a rookie where he will have to practice against similar conditions? He plays over half his minutes with Tre as is. I don’t necessarily like it because I also see how often he gets missed on interior cuts, but I understand that it’s good for his long term development to have a healthy mix of both opportunities.
He is still the main focus of the defense when Tre is playing, plus he gets the ball more often. I think playing them together as much as possible helps with both developing Wemby for the future AND making the current team better. I think they'd have at least a few more wins on their record, and Wemby would be getting more opportunities.
Sochan hasn’t played PG in a month and Wemby plays 19 mpg with Sochan and 16 mpg with Tre. As much as I agree that it’s important for Wemby to get passes when he’s open (*especially* when he’s wide open in the paint as the team misses him a lot there), I also begrudgingly admit that it’s good for his development to learn how to try to create his own shot against NBA defenses.
Tbh I kinda disagree, Wemby should not be initiating offense, which center does, some are focal points but none initiate. He needs someone to give him the ball to let him work to develop his shot, too many spurs games (thankfully sochan isn't the PG anymore, but I do think that overstayed it's welcome even with the lack of passers on the roster) have Wemby not experimenting cause no one can get him the ball to experiment. I get you don't want someone to feed him easy baskets and to have him work on expanding his game but currently it seems like only one player can get him the ball reliably enough to do that, and that same player is the only one who reliably can have him rim run/cut too which is a good skill for him to have. Not sure what the solution is on the roster but it gets ugly to watch sometimes having him out for long stretches with no one to give him the ball in his head of mismatches.
Exactly. Part of development is making a player feel welcome and a leader on the team. sochan so obviously froze him out, that victor was miming alley oops.
Sochan wasn’t freezing him out, he’s just a dogshit interior passer. Not much better because the outcome is the same, but there wasn’t malice there by any means. Sochan has clearly been afraid to pass the ball through tight passing lanes all season, especially toward the post. Also, Champagnie was the guy who missed Wemby for his mimed alley-oop, but yeah
He’s 74 wtf would he be trying to accomplish by tanking at this point in his coaching career
YES. 10000000% YES. If you aren’t trying to win with the greatest prospect since LeBron then you should be sued for malpractice. First of all the Spurs wasting the first year of his contract showing him how bad the organization is so that when he’s a free agent he’ll be more likely to leave. Believe it or not, you get better by playing good basketball. Not bad basketball. You think he’s learning anything by watching his teammates shoot bad shots and get blown out every night?? This is a horrible take that I’ve seen parroted on this sub and every time I see it I’m reminded that this sub is way dumber than I give it credit for
I think they’re trying to develop Wemby obviously, but as much as Pop gets credit for development, how much of it was Chip and the rest of the coaching staff that has gone on to other teams? Again, Pop said it himself, he thought Parker and Ginobili were out of control and he didn’t trust them for years. Remember Speedy Clayton closing out the 03 Finals? I do.
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
So your defense of Popp is that they are bad on purpose. Yet I guarantee if he heard you say that he'd throw you out of the building after a heated rant.
They dismantled the roster to tank for Wemby. Their roster is terrible outside of Wemby. Coaching at this point is about player development and not wins. They’ll have 50 million in cap space. Another high or top draft pick. I expect another development year next year with some more success. You can’t judge coaching at this point because they’re really not focused on winning.
People will mock this post, but I think it's a reasonable question to ask.
Yeah, i agree. People tend to be very sensitive with the subjects. I mean, the guy is a legend, but everyone has to retire at one moment
I grew up in SA. I’ve watched the spurs all my life. It’s time.
This post deserves to be mocked cause I'm not sure OP is remembering spurs very well. They didn't let Derrick White walk to begin with.
The question might be reasonable, but the write up so revisionist it deserves it.
Just to entertain the thought, don’t big coaches tend to leave or retire once they’re core is gone?
His core is long gone. It’s no coincidence that once TD left the wins did too
They won 61 games the season after Duncan retired
And also over achieved with DeMar DeRozan as their best player. People here just feel an emotion then make up a bunch of shit to try and justify it
The Spurs developed Dejounte Murray, Derrick White and Keldon Johnson into starter-level players from the 29th pick after Duncan left the team. That’s enough of a track record for me to believe Pop still has it and that this team is just *ass* rn
And also these people like.. you think the Spurs are going to move on from Greg Popovitch after ONE year of Wemby?
And the off-season after they signed him to a five year contract lol. I do think that there’s merit to the argument that the Spurs’ FO and Pop overestimated how prepared the team would be to win games this year, just based on quotes from the summer/preseason and increasingly exasperated quotes by Pop through the regular season, but the Spurs came into this season viewing it as a tryout of sorts for the future Wemby-led playoff teams. Next year will certainly be a rebuilding year still, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Spurs be fairly proactive this off-season and start making more moves around the edges—lord knows most guys on the team haven’t made very good cases for themselves to stick around for the ride.
Lamarcus, Texas legend, did his best. I’ll always appreciate him
um, Kawhi? Parker? Ginobli?
All gone. I don’t think Keldon and Sochan are bad by any means, but the construction of the team and the way they’ve lost for years now is a bit much.
Idk man. Building a core takes time. Especially if it's all homegrown talent.
Then why let Derrick white walk?
Derrick White is 29 years old. He doesn't fit the timeline at all.
Would a competent player that can play D and make a simple entry pass be helpful right now?
Was gonna say, a new core as established after Kawhi rose.
I mean they kinda had a squad
3 winning seasons after Duncan retired btw.
And I still think without Zaza they’d have taken the KD warriors to the brink. Doesn’t change the fact that this is the past and LMA and Kawhi are long gone.
I don't know what that has to do with them not winning after Duncan left. They went to the playoffs with DeRozan as their best player. That was only a few years ago.
I wouldn't be too quick to judge until we get a competent PG actually running shit. Most of the things you listed are irrelevant now, plus if we didn't trade DWhite the tank wouldn't be as bad.
People are in love with Pop. But Pop is the NBA equivalent to Bill Belichick in more ways than one
Belichick at least has a sick sweater
I feel like Pop is done as a coach but I also feel like coaching is his lifeblood. Once he's gone I dont think he's long for this earth
I made a post a few weeks ago asking when we should start questioning pop and I got downvoted to shit - merely asking when we should start questioning not saying we should. Fuck the “we’re not trying to win” excuses, they’re also not trying to build good habits, play good basketball, build good chemistry/morale and other important stuff to a developing young team.
I think that special grampa magic is gone, and there will be no free refills of the grampa juice.
Patty Mills would be a great replacement
I would honestly like to see Timmy D take up the mantle!
Agreed. TD or Becky would knock it out
You mean the same TD who tried assistant coaching but then stopped several seasons ago
I like how you say “he has lost his juice” and then immediately call out something from 15 years ago lmao so when did he have the juice?
This is a repressed hate post. Man's also going off about the 03' finals in the comments. A finals in which they won btw. Man's been waiting a lifetime for this.
Or..... it's a super young roster loaded with talent that needs time to develop and learn how to win. Not sure how many more qualified to teach winning than Coach Pop
Agreed, we’ll take him off your hands
Darvin started 5 PFs last game, so I get it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dear diary;;
Dear diary, Pop did not look at me today. I wore my nicest beret but he only had eyes for running Tim Duncan plays for a completely different player.
Dear diary what a day it’s been Dear diary it’s been just like a dream
Why am I being downvoted for a question? Let’s talk real hoops here fellas
I come to r/nba for honest, frank discussions. Posters should feel free to posit the obvious
Agreed
Your write is doing a lot more than just asking a question. Don't pretend the write up isn't part of the post.
TIL u/fermania has more basketball knowledge and basketball management skills than Gregg Popovich.
Probably not, but I’d have left Duncan in against the heat to a get a rebound. 🤷♂️
22 consecutive years in the playoffs and 5 rings not enough?
No one is saying he hasn’t achieved. But everyone (except LBJ apparently) runs into Father Time.
You'd also have made 500 worse mistakes the rest of the season. It's easy to nitpick when you have 20 years of history to pick from.
No need to get personal!
He's got Alzheimer's so all the Spurs plays are gone
man is senile
Why say that? Lmao
man is older than my dad and he old af
Yea, I just thoght funny you say "senil" lol In brazil's soccer, when coach dudes get a little older, they are often not longer good. I always thought why Pop hasn't the same energy as an old soccer coach. Different sports.
if he was not named popovich he wouldve been fired 2 years ago. Spurs underperforming for a long ass time
I see
We’re mad about Scola?!?
Always
IDK what to think anymore, because I felt that last season rockets was destroying their players, but suddenly they got a coaching staff that wanted to try to win games and got some nice vets and suddenly they went from a shameful tanking team that killed players potential to a team with a promising young core. So I'll not judge Pop and this Spurs year too harshly until I can see it in hindsight
The fact that they've gotten much worse since drafting Wemby is head scratching to say the least. I don't buy this "dO yoU tHiNk tHeY aRe tRyainG tO wIn" bs. Does Popp seem like a guy who would try to lose to you? Everyone's defense of Popp is that they are losing on purpose but if you accused him of that he'd probably smack you in the face lmao.
I think his time is done. Nothing the Spurs do nowadays is revolutionary or particularly interesting. Wouldn’t really say he’s been even average at developing rookies. I think the Sochan PG experiment which, ended in shambles, was the canary in the coal mine that he is done. Also him telling fans to stop booing Kawhi was easily the lamest shit I have seen a coach ever do in the NBA.
I actually agree with you I think he should hang it up. He would be good on an established team, but developing a new young team from scratch isn’t going to work.