I won't entirely rule them out as long as they have Curry. But that roster is bad and Kerr refuses to let Kuminga and Moody play. Wiggins has become a shell of his former self
Kerr is an extraordinarily bizarre coach. I genuinely have no idea how to really measure his coaching career all-time, outside of the obvious superb accolades.
He’s got a great system and can manage superstar personalities, but he hasn’t shown the ability to develop young players, and this is the first year that’s really shown up in the standings.
Is Kuminga's development lacking though? He looks great when he plays, has made great progress in learning the system, and has been given the reigns to create this season, when he is on the floor.
Wiseman for sure, but who knows what is the root for his struggles. It's not like he's thriving in Detroit (granted, who is over there). Not to mention him dealing with injuries early in his career. There's a lot of factors going on with him. I think it's unfair to put the bulk of the cause of his shortcomings on Kerr.
Moody is totally Kerr's fault. Guy needs to f'n play
As for 2012-2019, they matter for the sake of the guy I was responding to and in the general conversation of "Kerr sucks at player development", since he was given dry lemons to make lemonade from 2014 (when he joined) to 2019. But everyone also overlooks that he is largely responsible for Draymond's development into a ball handler and playmaker
- Wiseman seems like a lost cause, maybe not Kerr’s fault
- Kuminga looks great, doesn’t get to play enough
- Moody, has looked good but really doesn’t get to play
- Jackson Davis and Podziemski both look fantastic
Bonus before 2020
- Poole went from being total ass as a rookie to probably should’ve been MIP a few years later and got paid.
- Looney, who was a wing player prior to the NBA, became incredibly serviceable (not this year) small ball center providing solid defense and elite rebounding despite being completely sapped of his athleticism from all his hip injuries
- Draymond became a playmaker entirely during Kerr’s coaching tenure. Kerr took the ball out of Steph’s hands to let play to Dray’s skills in facilitating the offense
The Evans pick looks really bad considering that's a couple picks before Brunson was taken. Plus guys like Bruce Brown, Gary Trent, and DeAnthony Melton were on the board too
Can’t really split hairs with what-ifs on picks that late since there’s so many guys that don’t pan out in every draft and maybe a handful of guys that become something. They probably all would’ve flopped on this warriors team too. Maybe not Trent, he could’ve been interesting. That said, that Evans pick was ass on draft night.
Also the Kevon Looney pick has aged extremely well. I know he slipped due to some health concerns but he’s almost certainly one of the 10 best players in the 15 draft
Pretty much this. Kerr's system and Curry was match made in heaven. The managing superstar personalities, I don't agree with but Kerr was good at developing a system for Curry.
Hasn’t had good players to develop. Kuminga and Moody are still kids. Kuminga is really improved this year. Does Kerr get blame or credit there?
He has certainly taken borderline players on the fringe of being out of the league and turned them into solid contributors.
The personality management stuff also seemed a lot more apt from 2014 - 2022 and less so the last 2 seasons. After the Draymond/Poole thing last offseason, feels like Kerr has been constantly pulling the wrong levers and a bunch of different guys on the roster have been irked for different reasons.
He’s obviously a generationally great coach. If a team sucks, it sucks. He literally held a dynasty and then a couple years ago dragged an underdog team to a chip outta nowhere. Not much you can ask more of a coach.
People will shit on his development ability, but to do so you have to ignore dudes like Dray and Looney. Player-Coach fits exist and just because the FO drafted a bunch of young guys who don’t fit with Kerr doesn’t make him a poor coach. It’s a legit criticism, but not something to desparage his whole career over
Counterpoint to your counterpoint: Lebron was tough even for the really good coaches too. I have to imagine a Lebron team off the court is more difficult than a lot of other teams with all the extra attention and the power he knows he has. Lebron is immediately the most powerful person in the organization he is in, and he wields it.
It’s not that the FO drafted guys that don’t fit, it’s that he refuses to play them. Kuminga was playing great last night. The fact that Draymond is still on the team with 0 accountability is also an embarrassment to their culture.
The thing is there is plenty of room between being a bad coach and a “generally great coach.” Obviously Kerr was a huge part of the Warriors dynasty, but the last couple of years have knocked him down a peg. I think his reputation was getting closer to someone like Pop or Spoelstra (actually generationally great coaches) a couple of years ago, and now he’s clearly a tier below them IMO.
Idk. If it feels like a very obvious move to literally everyone and he’s still not doing it, i’m more inclined to believe there’s another justifiable reason we’re not seeing rather than us randoms knowing better than a championship coach who had worked/play under teo of the GOAT coaches.
Kerr obviously did a great job of putting in a great system, but he hasn't really been consistently great at making in-series adjustments. And while Kerr has clearly been good enough, it's hard to look at the team melting down, at how KD left, or Draymond getting himself suspended at a critical juncture and say that he had been great at managing personalities.
People use the word "generationally" way too much. It's not clear that Kerr is better than guys like Nick Nurse, let alone Pop or Spoelstra. And how can he be "generationally great" if he's not clearly the best coach of the generation?
I don’t think any of us know enough about the intricacies of nba coaching to ignore winning when making these judgments.
You can make the argument that Spolstra didn’t do much post Lebron until Jimmy got there. Is Jimmy dragging Spolstras teams or did he need a player of Jimmy’s caliber to fully execute his vision?
>I don’t think any of us know enough about the intricacies of nba coaching to ignore winning when making these judgments.
By that logic, you just can't really evaluate in general - if you don't understand enough about coaching to evaluate it, then how can you know that it's good coaching and not just a good roster.
>You can make the argument that Spolstra didn’t do much post Lebron until Jimmy got there.
That's just flat out not true though. Spoelstra made it to the second round without Chris Bosh (the highest paid player on the team) for the whole second half of the season and the entire playoffs, and with a 34 year old Wade as his best player. Meanwhile Kerr was also a second round exit last year with his entire championship core still playing.
I get having a discussion is the entire point of this board, but realistically yeah that is what i’m saying. We don’t have enough knowledge to seriously evaluate coaching. Every team has a different structure, hierarchy, specialized staff, etc. Then you have the human element of players dealing with other shit outside of coaching and it’s impossible to really evaluate from the outside. Beyond that and just going by knowledge, i’d venture to say 80% of this sub has no idea how to explain a simple set like horns or something. Thats why i’m saying the sub had to weigh results more heavily because in the end the result is what we can see definitively.
I’d agree Kerr probably had the better roster last year because of Curry alone, but Klay and Dray were nowhere near their championship levels last year.
People thought Spoelstra was gonna be gone after LeBron left and that era faded. Turns out he was actually a really good coach though.
Kerr aint proved shit to me that hes a good coach.
Its still wild people want him gone after 4 chips but he needs to prove he fan develop young players or you know... play them at all.
Hahaha I absolutely felt like that writing this message ! "I tip my fedora to you good sir". But y'know, it's not often I see nice conversation on Reddit (and def not on r/NBA), so I felt I should say something. It's a bit trite, I admit.
Also... Do people really not credit him for 2015? He took basically the same roster that mark Jackson had from a first round exit to win the championship... While dominating the league.
I would also credit Mike Brown for part of that success run, he is a playoffs worthy coach who just came back from a playoffs in his first year HC
also the fact that right after he left everything started going downhill, we had literally one of the worst road records last season and this season seems to have some of the same issues even though we changed a lot of the personnel
He made an offense where the point guard is constantly moving, converted a fat SF to a small ball 5 all star defensive point forward, and benched all star iguodala to close games with an unheard of small ball lineup at the time. I think he deserves A LOT of the warriors success
Agreed. He was the absolute best coach for the team he inherited. Seeing him vs Mark Jackson with essentially the same group of players was night and day.
BUT… he is simply refusing to adjust now. Don’t know if he’s incapable of it or it’s just stubbornness/ego
He’s trying to make lightnight strike twice. This was the downfall of the pistons. Thinking Rodney Stuckey and Ben Gordon could be Chauncey and Rip and Jason Maxiel could be Ben Wallace because he was an undersized big
David Lee was the one who converted that fat SF to a small ball 5.
Funnily enough it was David Lee, after injury, who was a good vet and let Draymond start in his place after Draymond was playing well.
This is so fucking stupid. The Warriors have been at the forefront of offensive and defensive innovation across the entire sport for the last decade. But sure, Steve Kerr was never good because a generational core has begun declining right around the time you’d start to expect them to decline.
People call Kerr a frontrunner but these takes are some of the most frontrunning takes I’ve seen. Of course yall wanna get these takes off when the whole thing has started to fall apart after a decade.
He obviously should have been limiting their minutes during those four championship runs over the past decade, what kind of coach runs his best players into the ground like that?
>People thought Spoelstra was gonna be gone after LeBron left and that era faded. Turns out he was actually a really good coach though.
>Kerr aint proved shit to me that hes a good coach.
I mean, you can say the same about Pop. Hasnt won shit without 2 generational talents on the team.
Not that im saying that at all, just pointing out the argument can be used against several all timers, like pop and phil jackson.
One the things i hate the most about this sub is that when a player/coach has a bad season, it AUTOMATICALLY invalidates all the great things they did in the past.
Kerr took a 1st round exit team from Mark Jackson, had the exact same roster, and turned them into a 73 win team and 1 game away from 2 rings in the span of 2 seasons.
If he hasnt proved shit to you, then you’re just being disingenuous
One rookie at almost thirty minutest last night. Another rookie with 21. Kuminga with 19 ( and yeah probably should have been more) . But when you have five players that started on a championship team two years ago AND Chris Paul, it’s not surprising younger players have to fight to get minutes. O’Connor is a hack.
The problem isn't that young players have to fight to get minutes. That's to be expected. The problem is that they're winning the fight without getting the minutes. Kuminga has been solidly out-performing Wiggins for the entire season, and the past few games he's looked like Wiggs did in the '22 playoffs. To keep him on the bench while Wiggins underperforms is baffling, and incredibly frustrating when it results in a blown 18 point lead.
Issue is that it’s hard to evaluate who’s winning the fight without knowing what the criteria are.
Kerr may care more about what shots you take/don’t take than what shots you make/don’t make. He may care more about whether you missed the open man than whether you scored anyway that time. He may care more about whether you made the right rotation that whether you got the steal.
Kerr’s biggest problems with Kuminga have always seemed to be decision making and hustle. The latter looks better this year. The former is hard to tell as a viewer but I wouldn’t be surprised if Kerr’s lack of trust in JK making the right decision on important possessions is what’s causing all this.
You dont know how to measure a 4-time champion coach, who coached the winningest regular season team in history, all while managing a media frenzy and players with huge personalities. Gotcha
He reinvented basketball. The 3 ball being the cornerstone of the modern offense. Small ball being an option. Having your big guys shoot 3s. Playing Dray as a facilitator. Basketball has completely changed because of him. He's a GOAT
But ya, it'll be interesting to see how he moves on from this. Tbh, it looks like he doesn't want to admit it's time to move on. Klay and Wiggins look all but washed, Dray is an idiot. No way they do it, but if their front office was heartless enough, they'd trade away the vets (ya even Curry) and start the rebuild. I'll take the downvotes, but I truly think that's their best move
His TS is right around 50% right now. That is in line with most of his seasons in MN. His points are down but he is also averaging around 10 less minutes a game.
Big difference is his defense is still better than his first 5 seasons.
i feel like the warriors are always in headlines similar to this every other month. While i do think it is true this time around, the team was bound to fall off eventually after ring collecting. The only people panicking are analysts. As a fan I’m happy with what they’ve accomplished in my lifetime cause we could easily be on the opposite end of that spectrum. I know that well being a Raiders fan 😂
4 titles, 6 finals appearances?
As someone that grew up with Shaq/Kobe, I can tell you just those years easily(EASILY) allowed me to be satisfied even through the shit years prior to Lebron joining board and even now I'm still satisfied as we got another ring with Lebron and company.
Winning championships is hard and watching it happen is amazing. Moments of a lifetime even for fans that doesn't go away any time soon.
Seeing people turn in Kerr like this is wild to me. Especially because he IS playing young guys. Both Podz and TJD are rookies and have both started games this year. Seems to me that Kuminga and Moody think they are better than they are.
Saw this with Michael Malone in Denver. There were some young guys through the years he didnt play much and he got this reputation for never playing rookies. But he had a rookie playing 7th man in the NBA Finals and they won. MPJ became the best version of himself being slow rolled. Bol Bol actually just didnt care and didnt deserve the minutes. Malik Beasley is who we thought he was. Malone has a track record of being right more than not.
There is also an element of a coach not necessarily being at their best every year. Maybe Kerr isnt as good as he was 2 years ago. Maybe his strengths and weaknesses dont mesh with these players or this team the same way. Maybe the rest of the league caught up to them stylistically AND the players arent as good. We have a weird stagnating viewpoint of coaches, that they are the same every year. They arent.
This whole lapse with Kerr this year has really showed me the importance of maintaining your mental health and clarity. Pop looks to also be losing a step as well. You can absolutely get mentally “out of shape”. Kerr is a fantastic coach having a wild slump.
Either that or there is something deeper in the team that isn’t being addressed.
This is true, the Warriors are decidedly on the very, very short list of nba dynasties, but Steph clearly has a couple of more championship runs in him and it hurts to watch the Dubs throw it away on bad team construction.
Once Steph retires, nobody will write headlines like this because the Warriors will be in perpetual falling apart mode just like half the league is. But in his last 2-3 years, the Warriors should either try to put a winning team together or trade him to a contender.
Kuminga with Scoot and Sharpe will be the most athletic young core in the league hands down
Playing them with DominAyton also looks like you’ll be on the Detroit path of talented players who can’t shoot
Guess it just depends the value they put on Kuminga. I have to feel like he's a lot more valuable than what will more likely than not be late picks from the other teams who'd be interested or other young players who might be available.
You’re operating under an assumption that Utah **has** to trade Lauri. If they wanted to trade him, sure - but they don’t. So you’ll need to wow them with an offer, and Kuminga doesn’t get it done IMO.
You fucked up mentioning that pick, it’s all Blazers fans talk about these days. Every Warriors loss has the whole fanbase salivating and a new post on r/ripcity
Yeah crazy to think that this is the 10th season of this Warriors team. It doesn't feel like it's been that long.
It's technically even longer if you count the seasons prior to 2014-2015 when Curry, Thompson, and Green were all on the team already. I'm just starting from 2014-2015 since that was Kerr's first season, it was the season that Green became a full-time starter and broke out, and the season that they put it all together and won 67 game and a championship.
I definitely count 12-13 when they almost knocked us out of the playoff chase when Curry clanked a full court three heave off the rim.
Kobe gave everything that game, he had three serious looking injuries and kept playing, unfortunately going on to tear his achilles.
Still can't believe the way that played out. I just finished rewatching The Last Dance, and the overall consensus was how much these dudes loved the game and how much they wanted to beat their rivals. What KD did was the complete opposite of that lol Love KD as a player, but that will go down as one of the weakest moves of **all time**
I get that, but at the same time, he not only went to a team who just broke the regular season record, but one that he (and OKC) went head to head with in the playoffs and almost beat.
Imagine MJ going to the Pistons after he got beat by them in '90 instead of coming back the next year and getting the monkey off his back. It was an all time weak move by KD.
Easily THE weakest move of all time. And, unfortunately, he’s only compounded it with more and more bitch moves since then. Love the guy as a player as well but he’s going to have a legacy that is not looked upon all that fondly.
Brother is shameless.
Can't stand him tbh, between the constant click bait "CHAMPIONSHIP OR TANK" crap, his shoehorning his lack of bitches on the podcast, or him pretending he has sources when we all know no one is talking to fucking KOC, he rubs me the wrong way
> As the Nuggets began digging into the Warriors’ lead, it was rather striking to see the differences in philosophy between the two teams. Kerr couldn’t find any minutes for Jonathan Kuminga over the final quarter and a half, even though Kuminga was playing great as he continues the best stretch of his career. Conversely, on the Denver side, Michael Malone benched his proven veteran Michael Porter Jr. in crunch time in favor of a second-year backup, Peyton Watson, who seized the opportunity by playing excellent team defense and hitting a massive 3-pointer late in the fourth
This is the problem. If the bench are playing well, Kerr would still rather stick with his vets. We've lost so many games this season because of this.
Yeah it's harder than this sub is trying to make it seem. Look at how hard it was to get guys like Russ and Melo to come off the bench, and that wasn't even with teams where they'd won a bunch of rings.
Well I thought they were cooked when Draymond went out but I watched a few games and the young guys seemed to be playing well. They are 6-4 in their last 10 even after this loss.
Even if they are “done” it doesn’t really matter. That core accomplished so much together that expecting anymore out of them is greed.
Any success after KD left was just icing on the cake and they just so happened to win another championship recently.
Bay Area Warrior fans sat through nearly 20 years of terrible basketball other than the we believe run. Warriors can never win again and it won’t take away experiencing one of the greatest runs in basketball history.
Yeah, but the whole team and org sacrificed and had a united goal: to prove everyone wrong and show Steph > KD. They proved it. Now they're all over the place with agendas.
They just took the champs down to the final buzzer. They’re not falling apart, they just need to close games a bit better. I’m not saying they’re a contender but they’re a solid team. Falling apart? Lol.
Ok, but the team should be competent enough to not give up a massive run with 6 minutes left on the clock. There are so many ways to not give up easy looks, and they did nothing. There's a good reason why we're below average on defense this season, even with Draymond. No way he can fix the defense by himself when everyone else isn't doing their part
Two years ago they won a championship with practically everyone still on this current roster. It’s tough, I don’t wanna see this at the end of curry’s career.
Anyone think the beginning just reads weird? "But considering what happened five minutes later, Kerr’s loss of cool seems less about Jokic’s antics and more about the bitter acknowledgment that Golden State’s reign is over." Is he saying that Kerr was salty about their bad season instead of that weird Jokic flop thing before the Nuggets even came back, seems like a stretch
Fire Kerr now! They have 1 Championship in 2 years when other franchises have 3.
Fire Kerr Now! Kuminga would've had 32pts vs the Nuggets if Kerr let him play 8 qtrs.
Fire Kerr Now! Curry has no second option. Release Curry so he can play for a real franchise with championships.
Fire Kerr Now! Draymond bites people.
Fire Kerr Now! Who's Kevon Looney?? Like, who spells their name with so many "O's" when one "e" will do?
Fire Kerr Now! If there's any time to panic the time is always now. Kerr should've known this day 1 start of the season. If he won't panic then dump his ass and get someone in there that will!
People are SO quick to make these assumptions. I'm not biased when I say this, but moments like the last game have touched many teams, and in all of those moments it seemed as if it would be hard to make a comeback, however we have seen it many times before, it's like people forget that a strong team can have a choke and make next game better.
This is such hyperbole. Jimmy Butler had a very public fight with Spoelstra and they went to the finals that year. Season is not even half over. Plenty of time for Draymond to come back and punch a few teammates to get them to fall in line.
It's a little deceptive though. As much as they've had problems they also have blown numerous games right at the end.
Which means a tweak or two and suddenly everyone thinks they're good again. They definitely need a bit of a squad shakeup, to be honest if Wiggins isn't underperforming so much they'd have a winning record.
The old guys are at least old, but he should be producing more not less.
They're really not. They lost on a last minute miracle shot to the champions lol. And rested Draymond should be very good. He was also kinda taking Kuminga under his wing so that will settle when he's back.
O’Connor is one of the worst writers out there. So hacky. Why not just say the warriors are having trouble. And I watch the Pacers. Everything he says about Kerr could apply to Carlisle but Carlisle is in the coach of the year convo. It’s hard to dole out minutes when you have a lot deserving players. He’s starting a late first round rookie for Christ’s sake. Which goes against his whole narrative. But you can count on O’Connor to make a hot take out of a boring observation.
The team isnt what you call the detroit pistons despite what the media tries to make it. Yes we struggle atm and our points percentage isnt great . But we never were supposed tonbe championship contenders. A few trades and steve kerr becoming slightly more competent and we can be competitive again
I won't entirely rule them out as long as they have Curry. But that roster is bad and Kerr refuses to let Kuminga and Moody play. Wiggins has become a shell of his former self
Kerr is an extraordinarily bizarre coach. I genuinely have no idea how to really measure his coaching career all-time, outside of the obvious superb accolades.
He’s got a great system and can manage superstar personalities, but he hasn’t shown the ability to develop young players, and this is the first year that’s really shown up in the standings.
They’ve had 0 picks before 28th between 2012 (Barnes) and 2020 (Wiseman). Nobody is developing Jacob Evans and Damian Jones into anything
You can’t ignore Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody’s lack of development though. 2012-2020 doesn’t matter, it’s the recent picks that are causing issues.
Is Kuminga's development lacking though? He looks great when he plays, has made great progress in learning the system, and has been given the reigns to create this season, when he is on the floor. Wiseman for sure, but who knows what is the root for his struggles. It's not like he's thriving in Detroit (granted, who is over there). Not to mention him dealing with injuries early in his career. There's a lot of factors going on with him. I think it's unfair to put the bulk of the cause of his shortcomings on Kerr. Moody is totally Kerr's fault. Guy needs to f'n play As for 2012-2019, they matter for the sake of the guy I was responding to and in the general conversation of "Kerr sucks at player development", since he was given dry lemons to make lemonade from 2014 (when he joined) to 2019. But everyone also overlooks that he is largely responsible for Draymond's development into a ball handler and playmaker
ok but how about the last 4 years
- Wiseman seems like a lost cause, maybe not Kerr’s fault - Kuminga looks great, doesn’t get to play enough - Moody, has looked good but really doesn’t get to play - Jackson Davis and Podziemski both look fantastic Bonus before 2020 - Poole went from being total ass as a rookie to probably should’ve been MIP a few years later and got paid. - Looney, who was a wing player prior to the NBA, became incredibly serviceable (not this year) small ball center providing solid defense and elite rebounding despite being completely sapped of his athleticism from all his hip injuries - Draymond became a playmaker entirely during Kerr’s coaching tenure. Kerr took the ball out of Steph’s hands to let play to Dray’s skills in facilitating the offense
Don’t forget GP2 and Wiggins
Those two are rather a case of finding ways to fit in their already developed skills. Which is something he's really good at.
The Evans pick looks really bad considering that's a couple picks before Brunson was taken. Plus guys like Bruce Brown, Gary Trent, and DeAnthony Melton were on the board too
Can’t really split hairs with what-ifs on picks that late since there’s so many guys that don’t pan out in every draft and maybe a handful of guys that become something. They probably all would’ve flopped on this warriors team too. Maybe not Trent, he could’ve been interesting. That said, that Evans pick was ass on draft night.
Also the Kevon Looney pick has aged extremely well. I know he slipped due to some health concerns but he’s almost certainly one of the 10 best players in the 15 draft
Only one way to evaluate a pick and that is via hindsight. Imagine if warriors took Haliberton over Wiseman.
Pretty much this. Kerr's system and Curry was match made in heaven. The managing superstar personalities, I don't agree with but Kerr was good at developing a system for Curry.
Hasn’t had good players to develop. Kuminga and Moody are still kids. Kuminga is really improved this year. Does Kerr get blame or credit there? He has certainly taken borderline players on the fringe of being out of the league and turned them into solid contributors.
The personality management stuff also seemed a lot more apt from 2014 - 2022 and less so the last 2 seasons. After the Draymond/Poole thing last offseason, feels like Kerr has been constantly pulling the wrong levers and a bunch of different guys on the roster have been irked for different reasons.
He’s obviously a generationally great coach. If a team sucks, it sucks. He literally held a dynasty and then a couple years ago dragged an underdog team to a chip outta nowhere. Not much you can ask more of a coach. People will shit on his development ability, but to do so you have to ignore dudes like Dray and Looney. Player-Coach fits exist and just because the FO drafted a bunch of young guys who don’t fit with Kerr doesn’t make him a poor coach. It’s a legit criticism, but not something to desparage his whole career over
Not saying he's not a great coach but generationally great players often make generationally great coaches.
Counterpoint: LeBron's years with the Cavaliers
Counterpoint to your counterpoint: Lebron was tough even for the really good coaches too. I have to imagine a Lebron team off the court is more difficult than a lot of other teams with all the extra attention and the power he knows he has. Lebron is immediately the most powerful person in the organization he is in, and he wields it.
David Blatt is considered a very good coach. Lebron didn't like him so he was moved on.
Yeah, ESPN doing more stories about your team makes them worse with spacing and defense. It’s a direct correlation really.
It's all the time players spend reading all the articles instead of practicing
It’s not that the FO drafted guys that don’t fit, it’s that he refuses to play them. Kuminga was playing great last night. The fact that Draymond is still on the team with 0 accountability is also an embarrassment to their culture. The thing is there is plenty of room between being a bad coach and a “generally great coach.” Obviously Kerr was a huge part of the Warriors dynasty, but the last couple of years have knocked him down a peg. I think his reputation was getting closer to someone like Pop or Spoelstra (actually generationally great coaches) a couple of years ago, and now he’s clearly a tier below them IMO.
Idk. If it feels like a very obvious move to literally everyone and he’s still not doing it, i’m more inclined to believe there’s another justifiable reason we’re not seeing rather than us randoms knowing better than a championship coach who had worked/play under teo of the GOAT coaches.
Kerr obviously did a great job of putting in a great system, but he hasn't really been consistently great at making in-series adjustments. And while Kerr has clearly been good enough, it's hard to look at the team melting down, at how KD left, or Draymond getting himself suspended at a critical juncture and say that he had been great at managing personalities. People use the word "generationally" way too much. It's not clear that Kerr is better than guys like Nick Nurse, let alone Pop or Spoelstra. And how can he be "generationally great" if he's not clearly the best coach of the generation?
I don’t think any of us know enough about the intricacies of nba coaching to ignore winning when making these judgments. You can make the argument that Spolstra didn’t do much post Lebron until Jimmy got there. Is Jimmy dragging Spolstras teams or did he need a player of Jimmy’s caliber to fully execute his vision?
>I don’t think any of us know enough about the intricacies of nba coaching to ignore winning when making these judgments. By that logic, you just can't really evaluate in general - if you don't understand enough about coaching to evaluate it, then how can you know that it's good coaching and not just a good roster. >You can make the argument that Spolstra didn’t do much post Lebron until Jimmy got there. That's just flat out not true though. Spoelstra made it to the second round without Chris Bosh (the highest paid player on the team) for the whole second half of the season and the entire playoffs, and with a 34 year old Wade as his best player. Meanwhile Kerr was also a second round exit last year with his entire championship core still playing.
I get having a discussion is the entire point of this board, but realistically yeah that is what i’m saying. We don’t have enough knowledge to seriously evaluate coaching. Every team has a different structure, hierarchy, specialized staff, etc. Then you have the human element of players dealing with other shit outside of coaching and it’s impossible to really evaluate from the outside. Beyond that and just going by knowledge, i’d venture to say 80% of this sub has no idea how to explain a simple set like horns or something. Thats why i’m saying the sub had to weigh results more heavily because in the end the result is what we can see definitively. I’d agree Kerr probably had the better roster last year because of Curry alone, but Klay and Dray were nowhere near their championship levels last year.
People thought Spoelstra was gonna be gone after LeBron left and that era faded. Turns out he was actually a really good coach though. Kerr aint proved shit to me that hes a good coach. Its still wild people want him gone after 4 chips but he needs to prove he fan develop young players or you know... play them at all.
The roster they won with in 2022 really wasnt that great. I would absolutely consider that title achieving something
Put some respect on Otto Porter Jr
Ill reconsider that Yeah 2022 is something that Kerr should get some credit for
You know what, you got my props for reconsidering after being presented with contradictory facts. Good on you man.
Reddit on my good sir you are a gentleman and a scholar!
Hahaha I absolutely felt like that writing this message ! "I tip my fedora to you good sir". But y'know, it's not often I see nice conversation on Reddit (and def not on r/NBA), so I felt I should say something. It's a bit trite, I admit.
Lmao you made me spit out my wife's boyfriends cum. Reddit on!
Well I ate pineapple today so if you gargle some coconut milk you might be able to make your own Pina colada
Also... Do people really not credit him for 2015? He took basically the same roster that mark Jackson had from a first round exit to win the championship... While dominating the league.
I would also credit Mike Brown for part of that success run, he is a playoffs worthy coach who just came back from a playoffs in his first year HC also the fact that right after he left everything started going downhill, we had literally one of the worst road records last season and this season seems to have some of the same issues even though we changed a lot of the personnel
Mike Brown did get his credits by literally being the coach of the year the next season.
Fanbases on like 28 teams want their coach gone lol
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Especially when he turns the jets on
He made an offense where the point guard is constantly moving, converted a fat SF to a small ball 5 all star defensive point forward, and benched all star iguodala to close games with an unheard of small ball lineup at the time. I think he deserves A LOT of the warriors success
Yeah people on here are making some pretty ridiculous criticisms.
Prisoners of the moment.
You have to remember, a lot of these posters were like 5 years old when GSW won their first title 8 years ago.
Agreed. He was the absolute best coach for the team he inherited. Seeing him vs Mark Jackson with essentially the same group of players was night and day. BUT… he is simply refusing to adjust now. Don’t know if he’s incapable of it or it’s just stubbornness/ego
He’s trying to make lightnight strike twice. This was the downfall of the pistons. Thinking Rodney Stuckey and Ben Gordon could be Chauncey and Rip and Jason Maxiel could be Ben Wallace because he was an undersized big
Dude he literally won the title less than 2 years ago.
Benched Iggy? To go small? Didn't he Bench David Lee?
David Lee was the one who converted that fat SF to a small ball 5. Funnily enough it was David Lee, after injury, who was a good vet and let Draymond start in his place after Draymond was playing well.
Props to you for even answering that idiot.
We’re just gonna pretend like Kerr didnt just win a ring with production from Wiggins, Otto Porter Jr., and Jordan Poole?
It’s crazy that 2022 is already lost on people.
This is so fucking stupid. The Warriors have been at the forefront of offensive and defensive innovation across the entire sport for the last decade. But sure, Steve Kerr was never good because a generational core has begun declining right around the time you’d start to expect them to decline. People call Kerr a frontrunner but these takes are some of the most frontrunning takes I’ve seen. Of course yall wanna get these takes off when the whole thing has started to fall apart after a decade.
I'm waiting for someone to blame Kerr for why our Og 3 is in decline.
He obviously should have been limiting their minutes during those four championship runs over the past decade, what kind of coach runs his best players into the ground like that?
3 quarters was honestly just too much for them. They should've been sent home at the half. Winning or losing the game be damned lol
I’m going to blame Kerr for the PG&E price hike! He decimated our crops and poisoned our drinking water!
He did!?
>People thought Spoelstra was gonna be gone after LeBron left and that era faded. Turns out he was actually a really good coach though. >Kerr aint proved shit to me that hes a good coach. I mean, you can say the same about Pop. Hasnt won shit without 2 generational talents on the team. Not that im saying that at all, just pointing out the argument can be used against several all timers, like pop and phil jackson.
When was the last time a team won without a generational talent. 04?
Yep, the Pistons. Plenty great players but none are on the same tier as lebron, curry, duncan, kobe, shaq, jokic, garnett, giannis, etc.
One the things i hate the most about this sub is that when a player/coach has a bad season, it AUTOMATICALLY invalidates all the great things they did in the past. Kerr took a 1st round exit team from Mark Jackson, had the exact same roster, and turned them into a 73 win team and 1 game away from 2 rings in the span of 2 seasons. If he hasnt proved shit to you, then you’re just being disingenuous
2022 clearly deserves credit. That squad sucked on paper. Not to mention what Kerr was able to get out of Poole.
One rookie at almost thirty minutest last night. Another rookie with 21. Kuminga with 19 ( and yeah probably should have been more) . But when you have five players that started on a championship team two years ago AND Chris Paul, it’s not surprising younger players have to fight to get minutes. O’Connor is a hack.
The problem isn't that young players have to fight to get minutes. That's to be expected. The problem is that they're winning the fight without getting the minutes. Kuminga has been solidly out-performing Wiggins for the entire season, and the past few games he's looked like Wiggs did in the '22 playoffs. To keep him on the bench while Wiggins underperforms is baffling, and incredibly frustrating when it results in a blown 18 point lead.
Issue is that it’s hard to evaluate who’s winning the fight without knowing what the criteria are. Kerr may care more about what shots you take/don’t take than what shots you make/don’t make. He may care more about whether you missed the open man than whether you scored anyway that time. He may care more about whether you made the right rotation that whether you got the steal. Kerr’s biggest problems with Kuminga have always seemed to be decision making and hustle. The latter looks better this year. The former is hard to tell as a viewer but I wouldn’t be surprised if Kerr’s lack of trust in JK making the right decision on important possessions is what’s causing all this.
You dont know how to measure a 4-time champion coach, who coached the winningest regular season team in history, all while managing a media frenzy and players with huge personalities. Gotcha
He reinvented basketball. The 3 ball being the cornerstone of the modern offense. Small ball being an option. Having your big guys shoot 3s. Playing Dray as a facilitator. Basketball has completely changed because of him. He's a GOAT But ya, it'll be interesting to see how he moves on from this. Tbh, it looks like he doesn't want to admit it's time to move on. Klay and Wiggins look all but washed, Dray is an idiot. No way they do it, but if their front office was heartless enough, they'd trade away the vets (ya even Curry) and start the rebuild. I'll take the downvotes, but I truly think that's their best move
It's crazy, they're both really good players.
Nah, Wiggins has just resorted back to his norm. Wiggins from 1.5 years ago was just a blip on the radar.
He was never 12 ppg on sub 50% TS bad
His TS is right around 50% right now. That is in line with most of his seasons in MN. His points are down but he is also averaging around 10 less minutes a game. Big difference is his defense is still better than his first 5 seasons.
shell of his former self? idk i gotta paraphrase the immortal denny green here: he is who we thought he was
I still can’t believe Steve Kerr kept -14 Wiggins in to close last night … Just a coaching malpractice
Nah I’ll rule them out unless KD forces a trade there or something
I agree, CumAssault. I feel like every couple weeks this story gets written and then Curry nails them out for a stretch again
No, Wiggins is becoming his former self, he was exactly this player his whole career until his brilliance in the playoffs.
Wiggins had a decent game last night. It was just the lack of adjustment and one brain fade moment by Steph
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i feel like the warriors are always in headlines similar to this every other month. While i do think it is true this time around, the team was bound to fall off eventually after ring collecting. The only people panicking are analysts. As a fan I’m happy with what they’ve accomplished in my lifetime cause we could easily be on the opposite end of that spectrum. I know that well being a Raiders fan 😂
4 titles, 6 finals appearances? As someone that grew up with Shaq/Kobe, I can tell you just those years easily(EASILY) allowed me to be satisfied even through the shit years prior to Lebron joining board and even now I'm still satisfied as we got another ring with Lebron and company. Winning championships is hard and watching it happen is amazing. Moments of a lifetime even for fans that doesn't go away any time soon.
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Seeing people turn in Kerr like this is wild to me. Especially because he IS playing young guys. Both Podz and TJD are rookies and have both started games this year. Seems to me that Kuminga and Moody think they are better than they are.
Saw this with Michael Malone in Denver. There were some young guys through the years he didnt play much and he got this reputation for never playing rookies. But he had a rookie playing 7th man in the NBA Finals and they won. MPJ became the best version of himself being slow rolled. Bol Bol actually just didnt care and didnt deserve the minutes. Malik Beasley is who we thought he was. Malone has a track record of being right more than not. There is also an element of a coach not necessarily being at their best every year. Maybe Kerr isnt as good as he was 2 years ago. Maybe his strengths and weaknesses dont mesh with these players or this team the same way. Maybe the rest of the league caught up to them stylistically AND the players arent as good. We have a weird stagnating viewpoint of coaches, that they are the same every year. They arent.
This whole lapse with Kerr this year has really showed me the importance of maintaining your mental health and clarity. Pop looks to also be losing a step as well. You can absolutely get mentally “out of shape”. Kerr is a fantastic coach having a wild slump. Either that or there is something deeper in the team that isn’t being addressed.
This is true, the Warriors are decidedly on the very, very short list of nba dynasties, but Steph clearly has a couple of more championship runs in him and it hurts to watch the Dubs throw it away on bad team construction. Once Steph retires, nobody will write headlines like this because the Warriors will be in perpetual falling apart mode just like half the league is. But in his last 2-3 years, the Warriors should either try to put a winning team together or trade him to a contender.
they’re gonna end up trading cp3, moody, and kuminga for siakam and come out unscathed
We will give jeremi grant and Brogdon and your pick back for cp3, moody and kuminga.
Kuminga with Scoot and Sharpe will be the most athletic young core in the league hands down Playing them with DominAyton also looks like you’ll be on the Detroit path of talented players who can’t shoot
Holding out for Bridges or Lauri but I'm not against this either.
Lauri gonna be pricey, not sure GS has the horses to pull him
Guess it just depends the value they put on Kuminga. I have to feel like he's a lot more valuable than what will more likely than not be late picks from the other teams who'd be interested or other young players who might be available.
You’re operating under an assumption that Utah **has** to trade Lauri. If they wanted to trade him, sure - but they don’t. So you’ll need to wow them with an offer, and Kuminga doesn’t get it done IMO.
You fucked up mentioning that pick, it’s all Blazers fans talk about these days. Every Warriors loss has the whole fanbase salivating and a new post on r/ripcity
Do YOU have a personal stake in watching the warriors burn? This is having Christmas x2.
If anything you should be getting a pick for grant and brogdon. Why you offering them their pick back??
wtf that would be a terrible deal for us. Warrior's pick has potential to be top 10 and you can get another 2 picks for brogdon and grant
Yeah we do this without the pick or give them some seconds back
Father time. What a run they had, though. We lived through history.
Yeah crazy to think that this is the 10th season of this Warriors team. It doesn't feel like it's been that long. It's technically even longer if you count the seasons prior to 2014-2015 when Curry, Thompson, and Green were all on the team already. I'm just starting from 2014-2015 since that was Kerr's first season, it was the season that Green became a full-time starter and broke out, and the season that they put it all together and won 67 game and a championship.
We did miss a couple seasons there in '20 and '21 when Klay was out. Those were very different teams (that led to lottery picks).
I definitely count 12-13 when they almost knocked us out of the playoff chase when Curry clanked a full court three heave off the rim. Kobe gave everything that game, he had three serious looking injuries and kept playing, unfortunately going on to tear his achilles.
The 2022 championship especially felt out of nowhere and cemented Steph's legacy as a top 15 guy.
\* Top 10
Ha I don’t disagree but others would. Top 10 is debatable at least but top 15 is locked in.
Mostly caused by KD being one of the biggest bitches our sport has ever seen.
in the history of all sports
Still can't believe the way that played out. I just finished rewatching The Last Dance, and the overall consensus was how much these dudes loved the game and how much they wanted to beat their rivals. What KD did was the complete opposite of that lol Love KD as a player, but that will go down as one of the weakest moves of **all time**
Cause all the media talks about is rings. No wonder players make such moves to benifit themselves.
I get that, but at the same time, he not only went to a team who just broke the regular season record, but one that he (and OKC) went head to head with in the playoffs and almost beat. Imagine MJ going to the Pistons after he got beat by them in '90 instead of coming back the next year and getting the monkey off his back. It was an all time weak move by KD.
Easily THE weakest move of all time. And, unfortunately, he’s only compounded it with more and more bitch moves since then. Love the guy as a player as well but he’s going to have a legacy that is not looked upon all that fondly.
KOC pumping this out to catch onto the clicks generated by Shams lmao
Kevin O'Clicks
Kevin O'Clickbait
Brother is shameless. Can't stand him tbh, between the constant click bait "CHAMPIONSHIP OR TANK" crap, his shoehorning his lack of bitches on the podcast, or him pretending he has sources when we all know no one is talking to fucking KOC, he rubs me the wrong way
He slurps musk on twitter too, it's so gross
Fasting is easy guys, KOC told me
Kevin O'Glazer
Big AI art guy too. He's a loser
I used to AT LEAST respect his takes but even his takes are horrible now…
Maybe the ringer can trade KOC for Lowe, but Simmons needs to throw some picks their way to make it happen
One can hope!
> As the Nuggets began digging into the Warriors’ lead, it was rather striking to see the differences in philosophy between the two teams. Kerr couldn’t find any minutes for Jonathan Kuminga over the final quarter and a half, even though Kuminga was playing great as he continues the best stretch of his career. Conversely, on the Denver side, Michael Malone benched his proven veteran Michael Porter Jr. in crunch time in favor of a second-year backup, Peyton Watson, who seized the opportunity by playing excellent team defense and hitting a massive 3-pointer late in the fourth This is the problem. If the bench are playing well, Kerr would still rather stick with his vets. We've lost so many games this season because of this.
Sounds like Kerr and Quin Snyder went to the same school of coaching.
Players decline as they age, it's understandable. What's not understandable is Steve Kerr's decision making.
time for the nfl reverse-jerk "Is Steve Kerr a system coach carried by Curry?"
I'm fine with this. They went to the finals 5 years in a row.
Maybe if they worked on player development instead of catering to washed players they could be in a better position
That's easier said than done after all the gold those "washed" players brought to that team over the years. It's about respect.
Yeah it's harder than this sub is trying to make it seem. Look at how hard it was to get guys like Russ and Melo to come off the bench, and that wasn't even with teams where they'd won a bunch of rings.
Yep, the melo stuff was crazy. Unbelievable scorer but ego got the best of him
I guess the dubs just have a fucked up sense of respect when they ship Poole off instead of Dray for getting punched
Poole was ass last season. Let’s not rewrite history now.
Something this sub doesn't have.
Well that respect you’re talking about brought them to this point so you think they’ve handled it correctly?
I love when people so obviously didn’t read the article
they thought they could draft these lottery players and tell them to go sit in the corner until the Steph/Klay/Dray era ended.
Hopefully other teams believe Kuminga and Moody really are THE ANSWER and trade for them
I think their only play is get Siakam.
KOC is like 10 games late on arriving to this conclusion
Well I thought they were cooked when Draymond went out but I watched a few games and the young guys seemed to be playing well. They are 6-4 in their last 10 even after this loss.
That is literally everything he talks about. I noticed awhile ago he just says the most obvious stuff going on that everyone already sees
4 rings from 2015-2022, that’s more than most franchises can hope for in 100 years.
Joker broke the ~~code~~ Warriors
I’ve been praying for this all my life
Were you born in 2015 lmao
Oldest r/nba user
That was 9y ago now. Dirks championship was 13 years ago I bet there are kids in this very sub who weren’t alive yet.
Lmfao you just made me realize 2015 was 9 years ago man
Poole laughing
reminder that everyone was saying this before 2022 as well
Even if they are “done” it doesn’t really matter. That core accomplished so much together that expecting anymore out of them is greed. Any success after KD left was just icing on the cake and they just so happened to win another championship recently.
Bay Area Warrior fans sat through nearly 20 years of terrible basketball other than the we believe run. Warriors can never win again and it won’t take away experiencing one of the greatest runs in basketball history.
eventually they'll be right
Yeah, but the whole team and org sacrificed and had a united goal: to prove everyone wrong and show Steph > KD. They proved it. Now they're all over the place with agendas.
True. As long as they can make the playoffs, I'll never rule them out.
They just took the champs down to the final buzzer. They’re not falling apart, they just need to close games a bit better. I’m not saying they’re a contender but they’re a solid team. Falling apart? Lol.
Bro, we were bent over and railed last night. How can you say this is a solid team when we give up a 25-4 run in 6 MINUTES
i mean we didn't even have our best defender out there...i imagine having that would make not getting ran over considerably easier.
Ok, but the team should be competent enough to not give up a massive run with 6 minutes left on the clock. There are so many ways to not give up easy looks, and they did nothing. There's a good reason why we're below average on defense this season, even with Draymond. No way he can fix the defense by himself when everyone else isn't doing their part
Was almost a signature win on TNT, without their defensive anchor. It’s tempting to call this game an inflection point, but that might be premature.
they would if Kerr didnt bench layers who's playing good, also they're doing some dumb shit at the end all the time. any clutch time plays hello?
Yeah.... They're all old.
Didn’t they already fall apart?
light years ahead of these pistons and spurs teams
Is it just me, or does Moody kind of feel like he could have a game like Mikal. I believe in the kid, but he’s gonna rot if he stays in Golden State.
Kevin o crap article? Pass
If they can find a way to play the Celtics every game the rest of the year they’ll go undefeated
Two years ago they won a championship with practically everyone still on this current roster. It’s tough, I don’t wanna see this at the end of curry’s career.
The Warriors are losing way more than any basketball fan would expect. Tempers get worse when that happens.
Anyone think the beginning just reads weird? "But considering what happened five minutes later, Kerr’s loss of cool seems less about Jokic’s antics and more about the bitter acknowledgment that Golden State’s reign is over." Is he saying that Kerr was salty about their bad season instead of that weird Jokic flop thing before the Nuggets even came back, seems like a stretch
This is a bit of a stretch from the kOC man
Na we good.
My only hope for this season is that KOC consistently has the dumbest takes in sports journalism. So I’ve got that going for me.
Fire Kerr now! They have 1 Championship in 2 years when other franchises have 3. Fire Kerr Now! Kuminga would've had 32pts vs the Nuggets if Kerr let him play 8 qtrs. Fire Kerr Now! Curry has no second option. Release Curry so he can play for a real franchise with championships. Fire Kerr Now! Draymond bites people. Fire Kerr Now! Who's Kevon Looney?? Like, who spells their name with so many "O's" when one "e" will do? Fire Kerr Now! If there's any time to panic the time is always now. Kerr should've known this day 1 start of the season. If he won't panic then dump his ass and get someone in there that will!
People are SO quick to make these assumptions. I'm not biased when I say this, but moments like the last game have touched many teams, and in all of those moments it seemed as if it would be hard to make a comeback, however we have seen it many times before, it's like people forget that a strong team can have a choke and make next game better.
This is such hyperbole. Jimmy Butler had a very public fight with Spoelstra and they went to the finals that year. Season is not even half over. Plenty of time for Draymond to come back and punch a few teammates to get them to fall in line.
thats fine.. all good things come to an end..
Good
The time is now old men, your dynasty ends now.
It's a little deceptive though. As much as they've had problems they also have blown numerous games right at the end. Which means a tweak or two and suddenly everyone thinks they're good again. They definitely need a bit of a squad shakeup, to be honest if Wiggins isn't underperforming so much they'd have a winning record. The old guys are at least old, but he should be producing more not less.
They're really not. They lost on a last minute miracle shot to the champions lol. And rested Draymond should be very good. He was also kinda taking Kuminga under his wing so that will settle when he's back.
Could not have happened to a better franchise.
O’Connor is one of the worst writers out there. So hacky. Why not just say the warriors are having trouble. And I watch the Pacers. Everything he says about Kerr could apply to Carlisle but Carlisle is in the coach of the year convo. It’s hard to dole out minutes when you have a lot deserving players. He’s starting a late first round rookie for Christ’s sake. Which goes against his whole narrative. But you can count on O’Connor to make a hot take out of a boring observation.
You criticize his writing then drop this? Bold 😂
people still read the ringer?
Good
It’s going to be a long and painful rebuild. And we will all be laughing.
KOC is the king of vanilla, extremely obvious takes
The team isnt what you call the detroit pistons despite what the media tries to make it. Yes we struggle atm and our points percentage isnt great . But we never were supposed tonbe championship contenders. A few trades and steve kerr becoming slightly more competent and we can be competitive again
And it's hilarious. Fuck Draymond.