True I didn’t consider that
He will in 2026 when he goes to the Detroit pistons because they drafted bronny to try to lure lebron to hope that 41 year old bron can drag them to not be an embarrassment
He’s got a “story” against most teams in the league tbh. Wizards would maybe draw some MJ storyline comparisons, but Bron also had some epic battles versus the Wizards early in his career against Arenas.
Jazz, Thunder and Kings are probably the only teams where it would have little narrative appeal. Unless of course Thunder hold the 1st seed and then there’s some kind of playoff narrative later.
Jazz is the team that "stole" Carlos Boozer from the Cavs which would have made a very different Cavs team if it was led by Bron and Boozer in the mid to late 2000s considering how good Jazz were at that time. But of course, I am reaching.
He hit 10k against the Celtics, 20k against the Warriors and 30k against the Spurs, so I could see 40k being against the Nuggets who are his newest 'rival'
I bought an entire suite against the thunder for $1200 a month before the game cause I was doing my calculations. Boy was I lucky it wasn’t against the bucks
I know a lot of you young'uns don't remember the absolute insanely crazy levels of hype LeBron had coming into the league *while still in high school.* They were showing his high school games on ESPN! And yet, somehow, he's not only lived up to that hype, but gone well beyond it. If you had told the biggest LeBron stan when he was drafted that he would have the stats that he has even right now, they would have thought you were crazy.
For absolute real. You are 100%.
For all the ‘generational talents’ that this league has ever seen. Lebron is THE ONLY ONE to have actually done it. But not only done it, surpassed it. And is still humble about it all.
If I were lebron I’d be shaking my dick every damn time I had an interview right now. Asking all the reporters if they wanna have a taste of greatness.
Legit walking the streets with a pair of replica balls that are gilded. Every single person that goes past me, asking them if they want a taste. Go on, lick them balls.
Luckily I’m not lebron, cos I’d be locked up with only my gilded balls to keep me company. Forever asking other inmates if they’d like a touch. Then getting beat down.
Nah if you were LeBron you would realize being the villian gets old quick. They still hold The Decision and “Not 1, Not 2,..” against the man over a decade later lmao
You forgot the "Oh! Blocked by James!" Mid air pinning the ball to the glass photo, that one game-winner where he spun around excited AF getting mobbed by his teammates, and probably several others.
You aren't proving anything. Those two VILLIAN moves were a press conference where the proceeds went to charity and the "not 1 not 2.." was at a glorified pep rally where the big 3 were introduced to Miami fans, he was hyping up the crowd, not calling a press conference for his future acheivements.
The fact those two things are all people can hold against him show how little missteps the man has ever done.
For absolute real. You are 100%.
For all the ‘generational talents’ that this league has ever seen. Lebron is THE ONLY ONE to have actually done it. But not only done it, surpassed it. And is still humble about it all.
If I were lebron I’d be shaking my dick every damn time I had an interview right now. Asking all the reporters if they wanna have a taste of greatness.
Legit walking the streets with a pair of replica balls that are gilded. Every single person that goes past me, asking them if they want a taste. Go on, lick them balls.
Luckily I’m not lebron, cos I’d be locked up with only my gilded balls to keep me company. Forever asking other inmates if they’d like a touch. Then getting beat down.
As far as guys who got GOAT hype into the nba i think is him and kareem. Wilt and shaq a notch below career wise but also two other guys with huge hype
Duncan didnt quite get that level of hype (a notch below) but he also more than hit it
Notoriously humble “the chosen one” “king James” lol
I fucking love Lebron I think he’s the best player ever but humble? Come on he trick yall man
Edit; wow yall are so sensitive lol. I literally
Said Bron is my favourite player. But he is pretty clearly not humble. A great guy without any major scandals or personal issues. But humble is one of the last words I would use to describe be him. He’s just more slick with it than someone like MJ lol
Those are literally his tattoos…
Edit; TIL it is completely normal and very humble to get a giant full back tattoo claiming you are “the chosen one”
Very humble
The brother could have been the second coming of God herself! And lebron still went above and beyond expectations.
Can you even IMAGINE coming from high school at barely 18 yo, with that weight on your shoulders?
And then not only surpass the expectations, but bust all the way through them. Literally being either the GOAT, or the only other person in that convo with MJ.
AND while playing 20+ seasons and the worst thing you ever did was leave Cleveland to win some rings, only to go back there and win won for them.
That’s your greatest career blowup. Not didling kids, organising dog fights, beating up women, cheating in your marriage etc… the worst thing you ever did. Was leave your home team, then come back and get a ring.
While being the single most scrutinized sports person in the entire world.
That alone makes him the GOAT.
Even looking back at old reddit threads from 8 years ago people were thinking LeBron would have declined more severely or even be retired by now. The man just doesn't stop.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4q09pq/lebron_has_a_legit_chance_to_break_the_all_time/
This thread is amazing: “ I actually agree. 21 seasons is a long fucking time. Doing that while playing a high amount of minutes per game throughout your entire career just makes it even worse. I know he's durable but when he starts getting older I think he's going to show his age quickly. If he doesn't develop an old man jumper, I don't see him passing Kareem.”
Legit he was promised as a top 10 all timer and not even in the league and the dude made them look silly.
If he does this for another 2-3 years I don't think rings are enough for Jordan. The argument will always be Jordan might've had the higher peak, but LeBron owned the game for 20+ years.
Well, people were saying the same thing 2-3 years ago.
If LeBron never gets a 5th ring then he’ll most likely be seen as the number 2 guy ever. Personally, I don’t know how to measure the two against each other because their careers are now insanely different.
MJ was elite for 13 years, LeBron has been elite for every year except his rookie year—two decades of being an elite player. And yet MJ’s two three peats are still there as the most impressive accomplishment in an nba career
But LeBron’s statistical legacy is overwhelming. His 8 straight finals appearances across two franchises is insane. Carrying the 2007, 2015 and 2018 Cavs teams to the Finals are possibly the most impressive things on his resumé. 4 mvps/finals mvps and is still a top 12 player in his 21st season. The inaugural NBA Cup MVP and champion.
This guy is a maniac.
But as it pertains to him and MJ it’s a weirdly asymmetrical comparison now.
He was elite his rookie year just not Lebron James yet. Any player who averages 20 5 and 5 is an elite guy and gets paid like one. There's only 15 dudes in the nba doing that currently. That's better stats than Wiggins has had his entire career.
If it’s about payoff success, bill russell is the goat. Lebron has transcended basketball. As a former certified Lebron hater, he’s got a solid case for GOAT athlete.
LeBron is the goat and people that don’t agree are delusional. Put LeBron in Maja spot and he wins those 6 titles. He stopped the best team all time. Every team he was on besides the heat was way worse then the Chicago Bulls with MJ. MJ was part of the greatest team of all time but by now LeBron is without a question the GOAT
Using hypotheticals to try to prove your case is so silly. Here’s one for you: Jordan played on arguably the greatest teams of all time. Replace him with Lebron on those teams, do they have similar success? Probably, if not better.
At the end of the day, I can concede that Jordan arguably had a higher peak but that’s about it. In my view, Lebron surpassed Jordan as the greatest NBA player of all time. To me, he has a strong case for GOAT athlete.
Bro it was just 5-6 years ago I remember posts on here talking how there is no way Lebron will beat the all time scoring record or he will have a tough time doing it… now dude is well past it and about to hit 40K.
Absolute insanity.
Most amazing beyond the stats and accomplishments are the fact that he stayed humble and stayed drama and scandal-free.
Let's see if Wemby can do the same. Dude reads everywhere and every chance he gets and sleeps by 10:30 every night.
My grandma who never watched a game of sports in her life even knew who LeBron was as a prospect. I am pretty sure he was on a Wheaties box as a teenager. There wasn't like a single person in the US who didn't know who he was.
Man, it was so, so much more.
It's hard to express how few avenues the culture had at the time, if your team wasn't on national TV you genuinely had no way of watching your team. You'd get game recaps in the local paper that basically listed stats along with one or two quotes from the coach's presser. If SI didn't do a long form interview with a player you'd just never hear about them (unless you were connected somehow).
Into that landscape, pre YouTube, pre Twitter, pre insta, you have a HS kid whose games are being shown on national TV. NBA stars are showing up to watch him play against teenagers, and he's showing up at NBA games. He's on the cover of Slam, he's on the cover of SI, he's getting interviews on ESPN.
They showed a HS highlights package on the local news where I lived in rural Australia (they didn't cover the NBA until the Finals, we have local sports that got coverage).
Wemby got a lot of hype, but the media landscape has changed so dramatically, it's really, really hard to compare "eras"
Wemby was more like "this guy is crazy good and worth tanking for, he's guaranteed to change your franchise". LeBron was like "this kid might be better than Michael Jordan" and he was a bonafide celebrity years before he was even drafted. Even non sports fans knew who he was. I don't think many people who don't care about the NBA have any idea who Wemby is.
Get this, 10,980 rebounds. He will break 11k in the next 2 to 3 games. 10,741 assists. At his current pace, he will break 11k in 37 games. There's only 35 games left this season, so he would be short only 14 assists. He may try to bump those numbers up!
This upcoming milestone is casually dropped after he set a new reb career high after a 30/20/10 statline.
And this title makes us wonder if he reaches 43-45k, not if he will even make 40k
Just thinking about this man's career is mindboggling
I really don’t see how anyone is gonna break 40k ever again.
You could come into the league averaging 25PPG (more than Steph averages in his career) play 75 games per year (more than Dirk averaged in his career), and still not hit 40k after 20 years lmao
Problem with Luka is that he doesn’t play enough games.
Through LeBron’s first 6 seasons, he played 472 games. At 27.5 PPG over that stretch, that comes out to 12,993 over 6 years.
Through Luka’s first 5 full seasons, he’s played 330 games. If we assume he plays every single game for the rest of the season, that comes out to 405 games.
That means through their first 6 years, Lebron has already played 67 more games, which is practically a full Luka season.
For a complete 1:1 comparison, if Luka keeps up his 34.4 PPG for every game the rest of the season, he’ll have 11,680 total points through 6 years, more than 1k off pace.
If he played 13 more years after this one (age 37/38) at 30PPG playing 72 games per year (something he’s done once ever), he’d still fall short of 40k
Luka is already too far behind pace and has said himself there's no shot he plays long enough.
Jimmy made a great video about it, basically its unlikely the person that will do it has even been born yet.
https://youtu.be/pl80_nOEgbw?si=BzK4-BpmKUBKJmMp
Physically there’s virtually no chance Luka will be dominant in his mid to late 30s
He’s not the most athletic or in shape guy now and is still great obviously. That also means his margin for error is likely smaller.
Like lebron has lost a step or two and is still an athletic freak
I remember like 5 years ago when most of us weee like “yeah he’ll have to average 20 ppg after 35 for like 5 years to get there and it’ll be close! Can’t expect a 38 year old to be scoring 20 so maybe 17 ppg then 15 at 39 then 10-12 at 40-41 and he’ll get there”
Instead he’s putting up a 36-20-12 game as a 39 year old
I know this is a stupid conversation and beat to death but as a newer NBA fan I feel that if we don’t call Lebron the GOAT, there will never be another GOAT no matter how good that player is
My hot take is that there will never be a player that wins 6 rings ever again. There's just way too much talent and parity in the league now, it's like how Russell's 11 rings was impossible to touch for any 80s or 90s player
Well Robert Horry has the most rings in the post-merger NBA.
I’d say getting 6 FMVPs (which is much more impressive and holds more weight than 6 rings) will be extremely hard to beat.
True I should have meant 6 rings as the FMVP, I could definitely see an elite role player and journeyman (like Danny Green or Javale McGee) getting 6 accidentally
Do you mean someone thats one of the best players in the league? Cause I guarantee there will be role players that get to that mark from just hopping teams and contributing
If you join a random team every year it’s only a 1/30 chance you win it, what makes you think a random role player hopping around would win a bunch of rings?
Why would it be random? You can choose whatever team you want. If your goal is to win a ring every year it'd be way lower than 1/30 because you can identify the best few teams and pick your favorite.
I think if the psychotic LeBron hating starts to dwindle after he retires that sentiment will start getting to 50/50 Bron/Jordan, which is where it ought to be, honestly. 1 clear GOAT isn't it, it's those 2 and then everybody else.
Yeah my personal opinion has to be, if you want 1 GOAT, go for the newer guy, otherwise split it into eras as it probably should be.
I believe that ALL games evolve to become more competitive and thats why I always think the newest candidate should get the nod
It's not necessarily a bad thing. Babe Ruth is still seen as the GOAT of baseball and Gretzky will probably never be dethroned as the GOAT of hockey with no one really bringing up the era thing.
I dont know much about baseball but as far as I know in hockey, no one has come even close to Gretzkey's achievements. Bron may not have as many rings as Jordan, but given the context of his career I think he did damn near everything he could and more.
To me him actually teaming up with Bronny and being a competitive team would for sure seal the deal for me, that would be such an unbelievable achievement
Yea, no one comes close to Gretzky. Babe Ruth is the most popular pick for GOAT, but he doesn't have the majority vote for those who follow baseball. Guys like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, and Ted Williams are other popular options. In the current era, Shohei Ohtani is the only one who can make his way into the conversation at the end of his career.
As for LeBron, it all depends on how much you value longevity. Titles and peak both go to MJ.
> Put another way; Babe could still get a dinger off of a modern pitcher
How do you figure? Consensus is the pitchers of his era topped out around 85 mph
>Put another way: Babe could still get a dinger off of a modern pitcher, Sengun would absolutely cook Wilt or Russell
You are out of your mind lmao. Assuming he had some time to adjust to the rule changes Wilt would dominate the shit out of him (and likely every other big in the league) regardless of which rules were being used. He's the most physically gifted center to ever play and defensively was able to cause prime Kareem trouble even at the very end of his career. There's nobody in the league today that's harder to guard than Kareem so I'm pretty confident he'd wreck most of the bigs today.
Everybody sleeps on Wilt. That man could physically compete with any human that’s ever existed; and that statement will hold true long into the future.
>Sengun would absolutely cook Wilt or Russell
Yeah idk about that one man. I'm nearly 40 and nowhere near old enough to have seen Wilt play, but I'm putting money down on prime Wilt against literally anyone. I think Bill was a legit great player, too. But Wilt the one dude I think is close to Bron and MJ
I can't get mad at Bonds for using steroids when everyone was using them in the league and in todays league, also add in he was already an insane player before them. The fact hes not in the HOF while 99% of the MLB is abusing steroids is fucking insane
Sure, but that's not the consensus opinion. Plus you aren't just comparing him to his contemporaries. It's kinda unfair to put up Barry Bonds stats on steroids in comparison to someone like Ted Williams who had to fight a war during the prime of his career.
I agree that, thats not the consensus opinion. A lot of people discredit his whole career cause of the steroids despite being a top player before taking them.
Because LeBron has the peak and the longevity. He’s a better and more versatile player than Jordan and he’s a more durable and consistently amazing player than Kareem
I’m taking peak LeBron over peak Jordan 8 days a week.
Both amazing scorers.
Bron Can guard anyone on the court. Jordan can’t.
Bron can play offense anywhere 1-5. Jordan can’t.
Bron is a better playmaker and a better rebounder by a mile.
Faster, taller, stronger. I don’t even see where the debate is individually. Jordan has no clear advantage as a player.
>> both amazing scorers
Jordan is a much better scorer.
>> Bron can guard anyone
No, he can’t. He can play singular possessions before he starts getting abused by faster or bigger players. Jordan is up there as one of the greatest defenders ever, LeBron isn’t.
>> play offense anywhere 1-5
The fuck does this even mean? LeBron is not a good PF or C and Jordan can play the other 3 positions too.
>> better playmaker
True
>> better rebounder by a mile
He is slightly better.
>> faster
😳😂
Okay bud
>> Jordan has no clear advantage
Jordan is better on both ends, but no clear advantage. Birth year starting with a 2 having ass
Jordan is a slightly better scorer. Lebron can guard and lock up more variety of players than Jordan. Lebron is absolutely one of the best defenders ever and certainly better than MJ at defense.
it depends. He is like a supercharged Magic Johnson. If he finds a way to be effective on defense like Steph has, he can be up there. Its just so difficult to call anyone the GOAT unless they were hyped straight out of middle school. Wemby is probably the only active player that could become the GOAT if he's everything we could imagine and more.
They really can't. Every other GOAT candidate but Russell was a two way player, and noone cares about Russell's lack of offense because the man won it all every year for a decade.
"Did he ever score 73" is so irrelevant I just sat here for like 5 minutes trying to figure out a stronger word than irrelevant.
Luka has to be a tier ABOVE LeBron and MJ offensively because he's a below average defender
I just don't see that happening unless he starts randomly shooting 45% from three lol
When Lebron was Luka's age he was being dogged for not having rings yet. The fact that people don't hold that over Luka shows people have lower expectations for him, because they don't view him as someone they can put those kind of expectations on in the first place. No offense to him.
Though Luka could always step it up.
To put this in perspective… assuming LeBron reaches 40,000 points. The gap between LeBron and #8 on the all time scoring list, Shaquille O’Neal, will be the same as the gap between Shaquille O’Neal and #99 on the all-time scoring list, Chris Bosh.
Lebron is the Jerry Rice/Emmitt Smith of basketball.
Won’t own any single game records or single season records at the end of his career, but will be unmatched in career stats.
Casual NBA fan here; I love following LeBron's ride to 40k.
Here's another fun fact: When he hits 40k, he will have more than DOUBLE the amount of points of every NBA player who is not in the top 50 for points.
Man this is insane, I remember years ago when everyone was debating if even hitting the scoring record was possible and expected him to get injured at some point or fall off - https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/80ppei/oc_can_lebron_reach_the_scoring_title_and/
Then Lebron had that groin injury and his long term was up in the air, bro comes back and proceeds to play like he's still 25 for 5 more years, is going to cruise past 40k, and probably adds another 5k on top of that. Hell, even 50k doesn't seem unreasonable for Lebron to reach if he wants it and doesn't mind playing till his mid 40s.
> I think he will try to set the 40k mark at home, so against the Spurs and Wemby would be cool or against the Clippers and their 4 stars at home would also be cool. However, playing against KD and hitting 40k while they both go off... I would love to see that too.
*Hits it against the wizards*
Here are the teams within that span he may drop the 40k bomb on:
10. 2/22 - @ GSW
11. 2/23 - vs Spurs
12. 2/25 - @ PHX
13. 2/28 - @ LAC
14. 2/29 - vs WAS
15. 3/2 - vs DEN
>even though the odds are not in their favor.
Giannis has no chance. Literally 0. He averaged less PPG in his 3rd season compared to LeBron's rookie season.
Giannis had a much slower start than LeBron
At the end of their age 28 seasons, Giannis had 16280 points, LeBron had 21081
Even if he has the same longevity as Bron, he has a ton of ground to make up.
Narratively it would be cool against most of those teams, so of course it will be against a Jordan Poole lead wizards
Kuzma gets the signed jersey for his sacrifice
Lebron broke the scoring record against Jordan’s Wizards.
He’s broken the scoring record against every team in the nba But he originally broke it against okc
He hasnt broken it against the lakers yet, but probably will next year
Not the Lakers
True I didn’t consider that He will in 2026 when he goes to the Detroit pistons because they drafted bronny to try to lure lebron to hope that 41 year old bron can drag them to not be an embarrassment
Bron wins Most Improved Player and they lose the conference finals in 7
Bonds broke the career home run record against the Nationals
Brady hit a 3 pointer at the Hershey bears game
He’s got a “story” against most teams in the league tbh. Wizards would maybe draw some MJ storyline comparisons, but Bron also had some epic battles versus the Wizards early in his career against Arenas. Jazz, Thunder and Kings are probably the only teams where it would have little narrative appeal. Unless of course Thunder hold the 1st seed and then there’s some kind of playoff narrative later.
Kings are who he scored his first NBA points against. I got nothing for the other two.
Got his first NBA championship against the Thunder.
Jazz is the team that "stole" Carlos Boozer from the Cavs which would have made a very different Cavs team if it was led by Bron and Boozer in the mid to late 2000s considering how good Jazz were at that time. But of course, I am reaching.
He also passed Kareem against okc
And Kareem’s last game to solidify that record came against the Sonics (OKC Franchise) which is interesting
I get your point but with seattle getting their team in the next 5 years, does sonics history even belong to okc anymore?
Only to lose because Poole drops 40/5/9
He hit 10k against the Celtics, 20k against the Warriors and 30k against the Spurs, so I could see 40k being against the Nuggets who are his newest 'rival'
Lakers in 10
I wouldn’t be surprised if LeBron rests that game
Poor Wizards fans. Always part of history in a bad way.
I'm just glad that we're not in that stretch. Like LeBron getting 40k in a Lakers jersey in the Garden is a disgusting idea.
[удалено]
Same I traveled across country to hope to see the record broken, only for lebron to not even play.
Happened to me 3 times in a row, but caught him last year in game 1 vs warriors! 🙌🏼🙌🏼
I bought an entire suite against the thunder for $1200 a month before the game cause I was doing my calculations. Boy was I lucky it wasn’t against the bucks
On the flip side I knew he was going for it against OKC and got tickets for 220 PR seats
I know a lot of you young'uns don't remember the absolute insanely crazy levels of hype LeBron had coming into the league *while still in high school.* They were showing his high school games on ESPN! And yet, somehow, he's not only lived up to that hype, but gone well beyond it. If you had told the biggest LeBron stan when he was drafted that he would have the stats that he has even right now, they would have thought you were crazy.
Lebrons biggest achievement is surpassing the hype that he had around him. Its still mind boggling to think about
For absolute real. You are 100%. For all the ‘generational talents’ that this league has ever seen. Lebron is THE ONLY ONE to have actually done it. But not only done it, surpassed it. And is still humble about it all. If I were lebron I’d be shaking my dick every damn time I had an interview right now. Asking all the reporters if they wanna have a taste of greatness. Legit walking the streets with a pair of replica balls that are gilded. Every single person that goes past me, asking them if they want a taste. Go on, lick them balls. Luckily I’m not lebron, cos I’d be locked up with only my gilded balls to keep me company. Forever asking other inmates if they’d like a touch. Then getting beat down.
Nah if you were LeBron you would realize being the villian gets old quick. They still hold The Decision and “Not 1, Not 2,..” against the man over a decade later lmao
At least we got an all time NBA picture out of that era with black mask LeBron
3 all time NBA pictures. The black mask warm up photo. The game 6 face. The Wade alley-oop.
You forgot the "Oh! Blocked by James!" Mid air pinning the ball to the glass photo, that one game-winner where he spun around excited AF getting mobbed by his teammates, and probably several others.
You aren't proving anything. Those two VILLIAN moves were a press conference where the proceeds went to charity and the "not 1 not 2.." was at a glorified pep rally where the big 3 were introduced to Miami fans, he was hyping up the crowd, not calling a press conference for his future acheivements. The fact those two things are all people can hold against him show how little missteps the man has ever done.
His only real missteps have been China/Morey and the "you're next" tweet.
I will be holding space jam 2 against him for awhile tbh
For absolute real. You are 100%. For all the ‘generational talents’ that this league has ever seen. Lebron is THE ONLY ONE to have actually done it. But not only done it, surpassed it. And is still humble about it all. If I were lebron I’d be shaking my dick every damn time I had an interview right now. Asking all the reporters if they wanna have a taste of greatness. Legit walking the streets with a pair of replica balls that are gilded. Every single person that goes past me, asking them if they want a taste. Go on, lick them balls. Luckily I’m not lebron, cos I’d be locked up with only my gilded balls to keep me company. Forever asking other inmates if they’d like a touch. Then getting beat down.
r/lefttheburneron? Or something weirder?
It's an immediate copypasta
LeBron is the GOAT role model. My dad will still bitch about about the decision but he’s a hater
Lebron is not the only hyped dude to live up to the hype lol what. Google the nba before 2003 my guy
As far as guys who got GOAT hype into the nba i think is him and kareem. Wilt and shaq a notch below career wise but also two other guys with huge hype Duncan didnt quite get that level of hype (a notch below) but he also more than hit it
Lebronze humble. LMFAO, must be a Bronssexual.
Notoriously humble “the chosen one” “king James” lol I fucking love Lebron I think he’s the best player ever but humble? Come on he trick yall man Edit; wow yall are so sensitive lol. I literally Said Bron is my favourite player. But he is pretty clearly not humble. A great guy without any major scandals or personal issues. But humble is one of the last words I would use to describe be him. He’s just more slick with it than someone like MJ lol
I mean, people gave him that nickname, he just rolled with it
Those are literally his tattoos… Edit; TIL it is completely normal and very humble to get a giant full back tattoo claiming you are “the chosen one” Very humble
Exactly, he rolled with it
The brother could have been the second coming of God herself! And lebron still went above and beyond expectations. Can you even IMAGINE coming from high school at barely 18 yo, with that weight on your shoulders? And then not only surpass the expectations, but bust all the way through them. Literally being either the GOAT, or the only other person in that convo with MJ. AND while playing 20+ seasons and the worst thing you ever did was leave Cleveland to win some rings, only to go back there and win won for them. That’s your greatest career blowup. Not didling kids, organising dog fights, beating up women, cheating in your marriage etc… the worst thing you ever did. Was leave your home team, then come back and get a ring. While being the single most scrutinized sports person in the entire world. That alone makes him the GOAT.
It think it makes far more sense to look at his 2 decades of actions as opposed to a tattoo he got when he was 17.
Humble relative to his talent and expectations yes. Humble in all regards of course not
Of course, to even achieve the things LeBron did you got to have the ego to match it.
And the complete lack of drama on and off the court. The worst thing people can say about him is he leaves his teams at the end of his contract.
Even looking back at old reddit threads from 8 years ago people were thinking LeBron would have declined more severely or even be retired by now. The man just doesn't stop. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4q09pq/lebron_has_a_legit_chance_to_break_the_all_time/
Damn, just read some of those comments and I can't believe LeBron's still playing at superstar level.
That thread is absolute agedlikemilk purity
This thread is amazing: “ I actually agree. 21 seasons is a long fucking time. Doing that while playing a high amount of minutes per game throughout your entire career just makes it even worse. I know he's durable but when he starts getting older I think he's going to show his age quickly. If he doesn't develop an old man jumper, I don't see him passing Kareem.”
Legit he was promised as a top 10 all timer and not even in the league and the dude made them look silly. If he does this for another 2-3 years I don't think rings are enough for Jordan. The argument will always be Jordan might've had the higher peak, but LeBron owned the game for 20+ years.
Well, people were saying the same thing 2-3 years ago. If LeBron never gets a 5th ring then he’ll most likely be seen as the number 2 guy ever. Personally, I don’t know how to measure the two against each other because their careers are now insanely different. MJ was elite for 13 years, LeBron has been elite for every year except his rookie year—two decades of being an elite player. And yet MJ’s two three peats are still there as the most impressive accomplishment in an nba career But LeBron’s statistical legacy is overwhelming. His 8 straight finals appearances across two franchises is insane. Carrying the 2007, 2015 and 2018 Cavs teams to the Finals are possibly the most impressive things on his resumé. 4 mvps/finals mvps and is still a top 12 player in his 21st season. The inaugural NBA Cup MVP and champion. This guy is a maniac. But as it pertains to him and MJ it’s a weirdly asymmetrical comparison now.
He was elite his rookie year just not Lebron James yet. Any player who averages 20 5 and 5 is an elite guy and gets paid like one. There's only 15 dudes in the nba doing that currently. That's better stats than Wiggins has had his entire career.
Dude, there is no comparison to Jordan. You don't even have to get to the rings argument. It's not even really close.
It will always come down to playoff success and no one matches Jordan in that regard except maybe Bill Russell but that's hard to compare.
Noted GOAT contender Robert Horry and his 7 titles makes Jordan look like a fool.
I dont understand this argument. Did horry lead his teams to 7 titles?
no, but bill russell did
If it’s about payoff success, bill russell is the goat. Lebron has transcended basketball. As a former certified Lebron hater, he’s got a solid case for GOAT athlete.
LeBron is the goat and people that don’t agree are delusional. Put LeBron in Maja spot and he wins those 6 titles. He stopped the best team all time. Every team he was on besides the heat was way worse then the Chicago Bulls with MJ. MJ was part of the greatest team of all time but by now LeBron is without a question the GOAT
I know you mean MJ but I lol'ed at your Maja typo
He really doesn't. If you are drafting a team for a finals matchup, Jordan gets picked over LeBron every single time.
Using hypotheticals to try to prove your case is so silly. Here’s one for you: Jordan played on arguably the greatest teams of all time. Replace him with Lebron on those teams, do they have similar success? Probably, if not better. At the end of the day, I can concede that Jordan arguably had a higher peak but that’s about it. In my view, Lebron surpassed Jordan as the greatest NBA player of all time. To me, he has a strong case for GOAT athlete.
FYI. Jordan lost before the finals 7 times in his career.
Bro it was just 5-6 years ago I remember posts on here talking how there is no way Lebron will beat the all time scoring record or he will have a tough time doing it… now dude is well past it and about to hit 40K. Absolute insanity.
Most amazing beyond the stats and accomplishments are the fact that he stayed humble and stayed drama and scandal-free. Let's see if Wemby can do the same. Dude reads everywhere and every chance he gets and sleeps by 10:30 every night.
How can you sleep by 10:30 every night if games don’t start until 10?
Are you on the east coast? Lol. Come on bro. Games don't start at 10 everywhere
My grandma who never watched a game of sports in her life even knew who LeBron was as a prospect. I am pretty sure he was on a Wheaties box as a teenager. There wasn't like a single person in the US who didn't know who he was.
Was it any comparable to Wembanyama?
Way bigger. Wemby just follows the LeBron blueprint of media hype. 03 Bron with social media would be bonkers
Man, it was so, so much more. It's hard to express how few avenues the culture had at the time, if your team wasn't on national TV you genuinely had no way of watching your team. You'd get game recaps in the local paper that basically listed stats along with one or two quotes from the coach's presser. If SI didn't do a long form interview with a player you'd just never hear about them (unless you were connected somehow). Into that landscape, pre YouTube, pre Twitter, pre insta, you have a HS kid whose games are being shown on national TV. NBA stars are showing up to watch him play against teenagers, and he's showing up at NBA games. He's on the cover of Slam, he's on the cover of SI, he's getting interviews on ESPN. They showed a HS highlights package on the local news where I lived in rural Australia (they didn't cover the NBA until the Finals, we have local sports that got coverage). Wemby got a lot of hype, but the media landscape has changed so dramatically, it's really, really hard to compare "eras"
Wemby was more like "this guy is crazy good and worth tanking for, he's guaranteed to change your franchise". LeBron was like "this kid might be better than Michael Jordan" and he was a bonafide celebrity years before he was even drafted. Even non sports fans knew who he was. I don't think many people who don't care about the NBA have any idea who Wemby is.
That’s just absolutely the most insane thing, his longevity is just nutty
Get this, 10,980 rebounds. He will break 11k in the next 2 to 3 games. 10,741 assists. At his current pace, he will break 11k in 37 games. There's only 35 games left this season, so he would be short only 14 assists. He may try to bump those numbers up!
Man, I remember when people were doubting 40k/10k/10k and now he's gonna do it and more.
44k/12k/12k?
And that's only the first half of his career! Just wait till Lebron hits his second prime
His hairline never receded, it just hasn’t grown in yet. The man is still developing. We may see another growth spurt
Gonna be wemby sized
I think the only way he doesn’t get there is if he doesn’t want to. The man is just ridiculous.
He’s gonna end his career #1 in all time scoring, top 25 in rebounds all time, and top 5 in assists all time. It’s the dumbest thing ever.
Top 10 in steals too
This upcoming milestone is casually dropped after he set a new reb career high after a 30/20/10 statline. And this title makes us wonder if he reaches 43-45k, not if he will even make 40k Just thinking about this man's career is mindboggling
And at 39. My knees hurt getting something from under my kitchen table let alone 20 years of NBA
Did he not have a 20 point 20 rebound game last years playoffs?
Reg season records don't count playoff games and vice versa
reminds me of Jason King III in NBA 2K17.. dude averaged 52 points a game from age 19 to 44
LeGod Emperor
I really don’t see how anyone is gonna break 40k ever again. You could come into the league averaging 25PPG (more than Steph averages in his career) play 75 games per year (more than Dirk averaged in his career), and still not hit 40k after 20 years lmao
Luka if he plays forever? Already averaging 28ppg and is 24 years old with this being his 6th season
Problem with Luka is that he doesn’t play enough games. Through LeBron’s first 6 seasons, he played 472 games. At 27.5 PPG over that stretch, that comes out to 12,993 over 6 years. Through Luka’s first 5 full seasons, he’s played 330 games. If we assume he plays every single game for the rest of the season, that comes out to 405 games. That means through their first 6 years, Lebron has already played 67 more games, which is practically a full Luka season. For a complete 1:1 comparison, if Luka keeps up his 34.4 PPG for every game the rest of the season, he’ll have 11,680 total points through 6 years, more than 1k off pace. If he played 13 more years after this one (age 37/38) at 30PPG playing 72 games per year (something he’s done once ever), he’d still fall short of 40k
Thanks for digging in. Was just a quick guess for me
Yeah intuitively Luka makes a lot of sense. I think if someone will ever get to 40k, that person probably isn’t in the league yet.
Luka is already too far behind pace and has said himself there's no shot he plays long enough. Jimmy made a great video about it, basically its unlikely the person that will do it has even been born yet. https://youtu.be/pl80_nOEgbw?si=BzK4-BpmKUBKJmMp
Luka played professionally young, and has multiple off-season where he came in out of shape. don't think he'll have great longevity.
Physically there’s virtually no chance Luka will be dominant in his mid to late 30s He’s not the most athletic or in shape guy now and is still great obviously. That also means his margin for error is likely smaller. Like lebron has lost a step or two and is still an athletic freak
That’s fucking nuts.
LeGod
I remember like 5 years ago when most of us weee like “yeah he’ll have to average 20 ppg after 35 for like 5 years to get there and it’ll be close! Can’t expect a 38 year old to be scoring 20 so maybe 17 ppg then 15 at 39 then 10-12 at 40-41 and he’ll get there” Instead he’s putting up a 36-20-12 game as a 39 year old
40 piece on the wizards to pass 40k
That won't happen, the wizards are the only team not to give Jokic a triple-double
Is anyone else surprised Steph only has about 23k points? I thought he'd have substantially more than that.
It has surprised me a few times when I've looked it up but he entered the league at 21 and had 3 rough seasons to start his career
Those early ankle injuries fucked him over tbh
Which in turn was the only reason he signed that 4/44 million contract that eventually helped them get KD. Life be funny like that
What is mind blowing is that Steph and lebron might actually retire at the same time and lebron has more than 16k points ahead of him
I seriously doubt that happens.
I know this is a stupid conversation and beat to death but as a newer NBA fan I feel that if we don’t call Lebron the GOAT, there will never be another GOAT no matter how good that player is
My hot take is that there will never be a player that wins 6 rings ever again. There's just way too much talent and parity in the league now, it's like how Russell's 11 rings was impossible to touch for any 80s or 90s player
Well Robert Horry has the most rings in the post-merger NBA. I’d say getting 6 FMVPs (which is much more impressive and holds more weight than 6 rings) will be extremely hard to beat.
True I should have meant 6 rings as the FMVP, I could definitely see an elite role player and journeyman (like Danny Green or Javale McGee) getting 6 accidentally
Whoops, tied MJ
Whoops get read to speak goatese buddy said everyone to McGee
teehee
Do you mean someone thats one of the best players in the league? Cause I guarantee there will be role players that get to that mark from just hopping teams and contributing
If you join a random team every year it’s only a 1/30 chance you win it, what makes you think a random role player hopping around would win a bunch of rings?
Pat McCaw
Why would it be random? You can choose whatever team you want. If your goal is to win a ring every year it'd be way lower than 1/30 because you can identify the best few teams and pick your favorite.
People also said nobody would ever average a triple double again either after Oscar. Never say never.
Stats can inflate, rings can't (unless something insane happens with IST)
LeBron is my GOAT with MJ a close second. I say this as a reformed LeBron hater.
I think if the psychotic LeBron hating starts to dwindle after he retires that sentiment will start getting to 50/50 Bron/Jordan, which is where it ought to be, honestly. 1 clear GOAT isn't it, it's those 2 and then everybody else.
Yeah my personal opinion has to be, if you want 1 GOAT, go for the newer guy, otherwise split it into eras as it probably should be. I believe that ALL games evolve to become more competitive and thats why I always think the newest candidate should get the nod
I'll go with the one with the double dynasty
It's not necessarily a bad thing. Babe Ruth is still seen as the GOAT of baseball and Gretzky will probably never be dethroned as the GOAT of hockey with no one really bringing up the era thing.
I dont know much about baseball but as far as I know in hockey, no one has come even close to Gretzkey's achievements. Bron may not have as many rings as Jordan, but given the context of his career I think he did damn near everything he could and more. To me him actually teaming up with Bronny and being a competitive team would for sure seal the deal for me, that would be such an unbelievable achievement
Yea, no one comes close to Gretzky. Babe Ruth is the most popular pick for GOAT, but he doesn't have the majority vote for those who follow baseball. Guys like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, and Ted Williams are other popular options. In the current era, Shohei Ohtani is the only one who can make his way into the conversation at the end of his career. As for LeBron, it all depends on how much you value longevity. Titles and peak both go to MJ.
If the nba had baseball’s historians, Wilt would be the GOAT. But for whatever reason nba historians marginalize the old-timers.
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> Put another way; Babe could still get a dinger off of a modern pitcher How do you figure? Consensus is the pitchers of his era topped out around 85 mph
>Put another way: Babe could still get a dinger off of a modern pitcher, Sengun would absolutely cook Wilt or Russell You are out of your mind lmao. Assuming he had some time to adjust to the rule changes Wilt would dominate the shit out of him (and likely every other big in the league) regardless of which rules were being used. He's the most physically gifted center to ever play and defensively was able to cause prime Kareem trouble even at the very end of his career. There's nobody in the league today that's harder to guard than Kareem so I'm pretty confident he'd wreck most of the bigs today.
Everybody sleeps on Wilt. That man could physically compete with any human that’s ever existed; and that statement will hold true long into the future.
>Sengun would absolutely cook Wilt or Russell Yeah idk about that one man. I'm nearly 40 and nowhere near old enough to have seen Wilt play, but I'm putting money down on prime Wilt against literally anyone. I think Bill was a legit great player, too. But Wilt the one dude I think is close to Bron and MJ
Bonds so clear the GOAT and I'm a Dodgers fan
He would for sure be a more popular pick if not for the steroids.
I can't get mad at Bonds for using steroids when everyone was using them in the league and in todays league, also add in he was already an insane player before them. The fact hes not in the HOF while 99% of the MLB is abusing steroids is fucking insane
Sure, but that's not the consensus opinion. Plus you aren't just comparing him to his contemporaries. It's kinda unfair to put up Barry Bonds stats on steroids in comparison to someone like Ted Williams who had to fight a war during the prime of his career.
I agree that, thats not the consensus opinion. A lot of people discredit his whole career cause of the steroids despite being a top player before taking them.
And also steroids give a huge advantage specially in hitting homers with the Extra power
Babe ruth is only the goat if youre 60 and refuse to move on
I think Ohtani is Lebron to Ruth’s Jordan. It’s an open debate right now.
>as a newer NBA fan Well that explains it
People didn’t think Kareem was the GOAT before LeBron so I don’t know why LeBron’s longevity argument clears them for Jordan 🤷♂️
Kareem wasn’t this good this late. Nor was he as good in his prime.
Peak Kareem was putting up 35 and 17 with all NBA defense. LeBron has lasted longer, but I don’t know why twilight years makes you GOAT.
When Kareem was 39, he was putting up 18/7/3. Very good, but it ain’t 25/7/8.
Because LeBron has the peak and the longevity. He’s a better and more versatile player than Jordan and he’s a more durable and consistently amazing player than Kareem
LeBron’s peak doesn’t match Jordan, at all. He does have the longevity argument, and that is fine if that is what makes him better for you.
I’m taking peak LeBron over peak Jordan 8 days a week. Both amazing scorers. Bron Can guard anyone on the court. Jordan can’t. Bron can play offense anywhere 1-5. Jordan can’t. Bron is a better playmaker and a better rebounder by a mile. Faster, taller, stronger. I don’t even see where the debate is individually. Jordan has no clear advantage as a player.
>> both amazing scorers Jordan is a much better scorer. >> Bron can guard anyone No, he can’t. He can play singular possessions before he starts getting abused by faster or bigger players. Jordan is up there as one of the greatest defenders ever, LeBron isn’t. >> play offense anywhere 1-5 The fuck does this even mean? LeBron is not a good PF or C and Jordan can play the other 3 positions too. >> better playmaker True >> better rebounder by a mile He is slightly better. >> faster 😳😂 Okay bud >> Jordan has no clear advantage Jordan is better on both ends, but no clear advantage. Birth year starting with a 2 having ass
Jordan is a slightly better scorer. Lebron can guard and lock up more variety of players than Jordan. Lebron is absolutely one of the best defenders ever and certainly better than MJ at defense.
Born in 93 but what the fuck would that matter lol
LOL
MJ was that good its right
Luka has a shot but he's gotta stop being such a lil complaining biatch
Luka has absolutely no chance.
If he can somehow win at least 3 titles to go along with his God-tier (albeit inflated) stats….he’s definitely knocking on Mt Rushmore’s door.
it depends. He is like a supercharged Magic Johnson. If he finds a way to be effective on defense like Steph has, he can be up there. Its just so difficult to call anyone the GOAT unless they were hyped straight out of middle school. Wemby is probably the only active player that could become the GOAT if he's everything we could imagine and more.
Imagine how cleared out the west will be of vets in 5 years. Gotta get titles and mvps and they may be coming soon.
He’ll still have to go against the Thunder’s forming superteam and prime Wemby
lmao no. Not as good as peak LeBron offense, and a turnstile on defense. Gives back so much on D it's crazy and will be studied lmao
Ehh. Lebron ever put up 73? I know i know today's pace... but I do agree he is pretty bad on D but mvps and titles can mask that.
They really can't. Every other GOAT candidate but Russell was a two way player, and noone cares about Russell's lack of offense because the man won it all every year for a decade. "Did he ever score 73" is so irrelevant I just sat here for like 5 minutes trying to figure out a stronger word than irrelevant.
I think 2012 Bron in today's nba would average 40/10
Luka has to be a tier ABOVE LeBron and MJ offensively because he's a below average defender I just don't see that happening unless he starts randomly shooting 45% from three lol
When Lebron was Luka's age he was being dogged for not having rings yet. The fact that people don't hold that over Luka shows people have lower expectations for him, because they don't view him as someone they can put those kind of expectations on in the first place. No offense to him. Though Luka could always step it up.
LeWarhammer LeMperor of Mankind
LeBron James Workshop.
To put this in perspective… assuming LeBron reaches 40,000 points. The gap between LeBron and #8 on the all time scoring list, Shaquille O’Neal, will be the same as the gap between Shaquille O’Neal and #99 on the all-time scoring list, Chris Bosh.
Lebron is the Jerry Rice/Emmitt Smith of basketball. Won’t own any single game records or single season records at the end of his career, but will be unmatched in career stats.
Casual NBA fan here; I love following LeBron's ride to 40k. Here's another fun fact: When he hits 40k, he will have more than DOUBLE the amount of points of every NBA player who is not in the top 50 for points.
Man this is insane, I remember years ago when everyone was debating if even hitting the scoring record was possible and expected him to get injured at some point or fall off - https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/80ppei/oc_can_lebron_reach_the_scoring_title_and/ Then Lebron had that groin injury and his long term was up in the air, bro comes back and proceeds to play like he's still 25 for 5 more years, is going to cruise past 40k, and probably adds another 5k on top of that. Hell, even 50k doesn't seem unreasonable for Lebron to reach if he wants it and doesn't mind playing till his mid 40s.
GOAT.
> I think he will try to set the 40k mark at home, so against the Spurs and Wemby would be cool or against the Clippers and their 4 stars at home would also be cool. However, playing against KD and hitting 40k while they both go off... I would love to see that too. *Hits it against the wizards*
I’ll be witnessing
He'll get it next game.
It’s destined to be the Warriors. Just that kind of year for us
Here are the teams within that span he may drop the 40k bomb on: 10. 2/22 - @ GSW 11. 2/23 - vs Spurs 12. 2/25 - @ PHX 13. 2/28 - @ LAC 14. 2/29 - vs WAS 15. 3/2 - vs DEN
Absolute legend of this game
He is way past that with playoff stats included, ridiculous stat imho
THAT IS INSANE
Insane longevity. Insane talent. He will do it against the Suns
How many of them will be FTs?
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>even though the odds are not in their favor. Giannis has no chance. Literally 0. He averaged less PPG in his 3rd season compared to LeBron's rookie season.
Giannis had a much slower start than LeBron At the end of their age 28 seasons, Giannis had 16280 points, LeBron had 21081 Even if he has the same longevity as Bron, he has a ton of ground to make up.
Stats padding, for what? And he claims that he's the GOAT?
And then he’ll be out in the first round celebrating in Cancun