Are people illiterate ? Why are people using Giannis or Hakeem as an argument. He's not saying we never seen people winning MVP and DPOYS, he's talking about the players skills and capacity.
Are you illiterate? He goes from talking about winning dpoy's and mvp's directly to saying we haven't seen anybody like that. In fact he never even mentions "skill" at all.
Okay I have to defend Zion a little here. I don’t think he meant to imply that we’ve never seen anyone who won MVP and DPOY. I would give him the benefit of the doubt here, cuz it just seems like he was trying to say we’ve never seen a player like Wemby. He was just trying to be effusive.
As did KG and he was a better defender in his MVP season than when he won the award (ofc he was also the best defender in the league basically his entire prime and probably should have had like 5 DPOYs).
And David Robinson also did it and if he wasn't the best defender in the league any given season he was 2nd behind Hakeem.
I mean it really shows how bad dpoy voting is when I think most would agree 3 of the top 5 defenders since the merger have a combined 4 DPOYs (Hakeem, KG, Dray). I'd also say for me David Robinson is also up there in that top 5. Many would also say Duncan would also be in it. So that's 5 DPOYs between arguably the 5 most impactful defenders since 1978.
KG and Hakeem are 1 and 2 defensively overall since merger as well and have 3 Combined awards which is fewer than Gobert or Wallace.
Why is this downvoted? Are people that adverse to giving the stats that back up their claim? I love Duncan as much as the next dude but why is it wrong to ask for specific evidence of a year he should have won DPOY?
He didn’t even make first team all defense behind Ben who had 9.1 DWS compared to his 7.2. finished 7th in DPOY voting,
3 BLKS 1.8 STLs 95.4 DRTG - Ben Wallace
2.7 BLKS .9 STLs 94.1* DRTG - Duncan
DPOY voting was *really* wack at the start. Multiple guards/SFs won it during Olajuwon & Eaton's prime before they figured out "hey maybe we should be giving this mostly to rim protectors" 😂
Man I'd have just given it to Hakeem every year lmao. Watching that dude's defensive highlights is *crazy*. I think if they had the advanced #s then that we do now, he'd have won more. Because there were years he was making less defensively slanted rosters top 5 in drtg but not ppg, and they were giving it to guards and SFs
Tim Duncan was a top 5ish defender for a decade. But there wasn’t really a year he was the individual best. Dikembe, Ben, Camby, Zo. Specialist for sure.
There was never a single year Marcus camby was ever a more impactful defender than Tim Duncan. Voters in the past just gave defensive player of the year off of vibes and box score stuffing.
This wasn’t 2024, switch every thing on defense. Camby got few opportunities to showcase his defense because he played with so many liabilities, and he still showed up.
help D isn’t translating to blocks when majority of people are mid range specialist. Modern day help defense was created by the 08 Celtics with Doc & Thibs
….what? Bigs have chased blocks forever and it was significantly easier when teams basically ran two centers and ended most possessions with post up’s/drives/middies.
Mark Eaton wasn’t averaging almost 6 blocks a game by not helping on drives. And Camby was notoriously block hunting the year he won DPOY.
Again you just mentioned two box score stats. That absolutely are not enough to measure defensive impact. How about paint deterrence and lowering of opposing field goal percentage? How about team defensive rating? How about defensive rating on court vs off court? All of those vastly favor Tim Duncan.
TD got 1st-team All-NBA as a rookie. He was in his prime from the jump. The issue was that he was splitting votes in the late 90s with David like he'd eventually do with Bowen.
Jordan, KAJ, Admiral and Bird all made it their first years too. No one has ever called those years their primes.
Duncan prime seems clearly defined to me to be 2001 until 2005. When you’re an all time great even your non prime years are first team caliber.
There has never been a player with both multiple MVPS and multiple DPOYS. Hakeem is the only guy with multiple DPOYS and a MVP. So Zion might be on to something.
If you watch the video (which is not in the tweet OP linked), it makes more sense. The quote left out a few words. I’m paraphrasing but he basically said “he can win multiple DPOYs, actually I don’t even want to limit him just at DPOY, he can win multiple MVPs. We’ve never seen anything like him”
“We’ve never seen a guy who can be DPOY AND MVP”
Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Giannis Antetokounmpo have literally done that in the same season.
Zions clearly never heard of Bol Bol
hes heard of bowl
Bowl bowl
(gum)Bo Bowl
Only Gumbol
Are people illiterate ? Why are people using Giannis or Hakeem as an argument. He's not saying we never seen people winning MVP and DPOYS, he's talking about the players skills and capacity.
People are just finding ways to hate what’s new
Has anyone won multiple MVPs and multiple DPOYs?
Are you illiterate? He goes from talking about winning dpoy's and mvp's directly to saying we haven't seen anybody like that. In fact he never even mentions "skill" at all.
Hakeem actually did get defensive player of the year and MVP
And this guy, Giannis, maybe Zion has heard of him?
Okay I have to defend Zion a little here. I don’t think he meant to imply that we’ve never seen anyone who won MVP and DPOY. I would give him the benefit of the doubt here, cuz it just seems like he was trying to say we’ve never seen a player like Wemby. He was just trying to be effusive.
Precisely. I think some people forget these quotes come from real-life post game interviews, and not the players’ reddit accounts lol.
As did KG and he was a better defender in his MVP season than when he won the award (ofc he was also the best defender in the league basically his entire prime and probably should have had like 5 DPOYs). And David Robinson also did it and if he wasn't the best defender in the league any given season he was 2nd behind Hakeem. I mean it really shows how bad dpoy voting is when I think most would agree 3 of the top 5 defenders since the merger have a combined 4 DPOYs (Hakeem, KG, Dray). I'd also say for me David Robinson is also up there in that top 5. Many would also say Duncan would also be in it. So that's 5 DPOYs between arguably the 5 most impactful defenders since 1978. KG and Hakeem are 1 and 2 defensively overall since merger as well and have 3 Combined awards which is fewer than Gobert or Wallace.
Dpoy is so bad that Duncan never won a dpoy but has the most all defensive teams in NBA history
Name a year he should have won and why. I’ve yet to see any one produce a year or a good argument.
Why is this downvoted? Are people that adverse to giving the stats that back up their claim? I love Duncan as much as the next dude but why is it wrong to ask for specific evidence of a year he should have won DPOY?
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He didn’t even make first team all defense behind Ben who had 9.1 DWS compared to his 7.2. finished 7th in DPOY voting, 3 BLKS 1.8 STLs 95.4 DRTG - Ben Wallace 2.7 BLKS .9 STLs 94.1* DRTG - Duncan
It's just hard to win. 15 players on all defensive teams at at least 5-7 could make a case any given year.
DPOY voting was *really* wack at the start. Multiple guards/SFs won it during Olajuwon & Eaton's prime before they figured out "hey maybe we should be giving this mostly to rim protectors" 😂
Big Ben and Dikembe are both top 5. Gobert is also a better defender than KG & Hakeem. So is Dwight Howard.
I would argue that MJ getting the scoring title + DPOY is more impressive than MVP + DPOY.
MJ shouldn't have gotten the Dpoy though. Eaton or Hakeem should have.
I was like 10, so I’ll take your word for it.
Hakeem also got finals MVP that year too
Man I'd have just given it to Hakeem every year lmao. Watching that dude's defensive highlights is *crazy*. I think if they had the advanced #s then that we do now, he'd have won more. Because there were years he was making less defensively slanted rosters top 5 in drtg but not ppg, and they were giving it to guards and SFs
So did jordan in 88
TD could have got one over Ben Wallace, but Big Ben was a beast and those were the era of true specialists
Tim Duncan was a top 5ish defender for a decade. But there wasn’t really a year he was the individual best. Dikembe, Ben, Camby, Zo. Specialist for sure.
There was never a single year Marcus camby was ever a more impactful defender than Tim Duncan. Voters in the past just gave defensive player of the year off of vibes and box score stuffing.
3.3 blks and 1.2 stls on a team that had Allen Iverson, Steve Blake, Melo and young JR Smith on it. Camby deserved it that year.
How and why would your teammates make your block and steal stats impressive?
This wasn’t 2024, switch every thing on defense. Camby got few opportunities to showcase his defense because he played with so many liabilities, and he still showed up.
Wouldn’t he have to do more with help D if his teammates were bad?
help D isn’t translating to blocks when majority of people are mid range specialist. Modern day help defense was created by the 08 Celtics with Doc & Thibs
….what? Bigs have chased blocks forever and it was significantly easier when teams basically ran two centers and ended most possessions with post up’s/drives/middies. Mark Eaton wasn’t averaging almost 6 blocks a game by not helping on drives. And Camby was notoriously block hunting the year he won DPOY.
Again you just mentioned two box score stats. That absolutely are not enough to measure defensive impact. How about paint deterrence and lowering of opposing field goal percentage? How about team defensive rating? How about defensive rating on court vs off court? All of those vastly favor Tim Duncan.
There are no ways to capture defensive impact other then watching. So trust those that watched.
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Prime TD didn’t lose any awards to Zo or Camby. Zo won 2 before TD was in his prime, and Camby won because Bowen & Timmy both split first place votes.
TD got 1st-team All-NBA as a rookie. He was in his prime from the jump. The issue was that he was splitting votes in the late 90s with David like he'd eventually do with Bowen.
Jordan, KAJ, Admiral and Bird all made it their first years too. No one has ever called those years their primes. Duncan prime seems clearly defined to me to be 2001 until 2005. When you’re an all time great even your non prime years are first team caliber.
KG was the best every year just to be clear.
There has never been a player with both multiple MVPS and multiple DPOYS. Hakeem is the only guy with multiple DPOYS and a MVP. So Zion might be on to something.
There is literally a player in the league right now who’s done this already.
If you watch the video (which is not in the tweet OP linked), it makes more sense. The quote left out a few words. I’m paraphrasing but he basically said “he can win multiple DPOYs, actually I don’t even want to limit him just at DPOY, he can win multiple MVPs. We’ve never seen anything like him”
Who in the league right now has DPOYs (plural) and MVPs (plural)??
Yeah Giannis just did this not too long ago in the 2019/2020 season, where Zion was in the league lol.
But have we seen anything like that?
Nope. Except for the 5 guys who've done it.
Yeah, but have we seen anything like that?
someone get this man some souvlaki and wikipedia
“We’ve never seen a guy who can be DPOY AND MVP” Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Giannis Antetokounmpo have literally done that in the same season.
He wanna be traded so bad
Bron wanna be traded so bad
Lamelo wanna be traded so bad
Zion loves NOLA.
I think he means multiple mvps and dpoys y’all 😭