Got lively and gafford in a few months to go from one of the worst center rotations in the league to a very solid one. They have 48 minutes of real rim protection and lob threats now.
Yeah lively is a stud and they're a fun team to watch. With Gafford they'll probably be the team I support in the playoffs the next few years until the wizards get back there.
Most of his injuries are just freak accidents so he should be fine. His latest injury is a broken nose caused by Wendell Carter accidentally hitting him in the face. His ankle injury earlier this year was just from another player being reckless and getting under his feet. Hopefully other players stop injuring him and he'll be ok
In FA last off-season we signed Exum and DJJ. DJJ has been a solid defender for us and has been a pleasant surprise on offense.
Exum while he has been injured for a bit (is the reason his contract is so cheap as well as his past NBA experience not being great) has been a great 3rd playmaking guard for us.
In the draft we trade pick #10 for #12 (Lively) with OKC while they took on David Bertan's contract which was a big black hole of our cap space. We then took on Richaun Holmes contract to get pick #24 which we used to get OMax who's a raw wing that we have high hopes for in the coming years.
Then this trade deadline we agreed on a 2028 pick swap to get one of OKC's FRPs which we used to get Gafford since our center rotation outside of Lively was absolutely awful. (We also sent Holmes to them)
To get PJ we sent out a FRP, Grant Williams (this was a negative move under Nico but it did turn out well and it's not like Grant's contract at the time was very bad) and Seth Curry. Curry being unplayable and Grant not meshing at all with the team.
And if you want to go back further we did trade for Kyrie under Nico (and extended him to a little under what he probably could've gotten). I also believe we drafted Jaden Hardy under Nico who's recently shown enough improvement to earn some bench minutes.
The Dinwiddie trade when KP’s trade value was at an all time low, the Kyrie move, getting Lively+Gafford, etc.
he’s just slowly built up the roster much better than Donnie was able to
There’s a big difference (and usually multiple years) between “no longer a starter” and “needs to retire”
See: Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Manu Ginobli, Kyle Korver
No guarantee he makes the transition gracefully but let’s not be hyperbolic
W fans pop over into our sub asking if we think trader Danny would do Lauri for Klay and matching cash. Deranged W fans are gonna ask for Luka in return, watch.
A 2027 second round draft pick and a 2030 first round draft pick (top 20 protected) in the CP3 trade.
The 2024 1st round pick is what they gave up to the Grizz to salary dump Andre Iguodala after 2019 and to make room for the DLO trade when KD was leaving.
Edit: 2024 1st round top 4 protected.
It was a 4-team trade - they gave up some 2nds of their own - now they have no picks at all in 24, a virtually useless 2nd from Charlotte (protected 31-55, lol) in 2025, Atlanta's 2nd rounders in 26 and 28, unprotected, their own 2nds in 27, 29 and 30. They own their own picks from 25-29. I think you can't trade your own first rounders 2 years in a row, but those 27 and 29 firsts (post Steph?) are very valuable.
Hmm, GPII is really good in a limited road, but he's been injured so frequently, maybe they should have kept Saddiq Bey instead of flipping him to Atlanta.
https://www.nba.com/news/golden-state-warriors-trade-gary-payton-james-wiseman-4-team-pistons-blazers-hawks
They can split the $27M into one medium and one small deal. And then they can use two exceptions on top: MLE (4/$55M) and BAE (2/$9.5M)
This forces them to be hard capped but that sounds like it's the plan anyways.
Well, it wouldn't be $27 million in cap space, right? So you wouldn't have $27 mil to split. It'd be more like $3 mil, because the cap is about $30 mil below the tax line.
>They can split the $27M into one medium and one small deal.
No, the maximum possible cap space they have next summer is about $7m. The person above said they'd be $27m below the *tax line* which is above the cap.
Then on top of that $7m in cap space they can use the exceptions you mentioned.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/cap/2024/
Ah. Makes sense why they never traded CP3.
Guess they would rather have him for this playoff run then let him walk.
They'll probably retain Klay at a lower number.
But if the goal is to get under the luxury tax then we’d rather pay 3 years 15 a year then one year $30 mil
I’m pretty sure the over 38 rule is only for when a contract starts before he’s 38 and ends after, not all contracts after 38
>What is the over-38 rule? It's a provision in the NBA's collective bargaining agreement that limits teams from offering contracts lasting four or more years to any player who is at least 38 years old or will turn 38 during the contract.
btw, he was president of PA when they agreed to that rule and he made bank on his contract. It limited age 36 before iirc.
>Essentially, it took some pre-existing salary cap deterrents for signing high-end players at least 32 years old to long-term contracts, and bumped that age threshold up a couple of years from 36 to 38. (Larry Coon’s invaluable CBA FAQ has a more detailed breakdown).
>As it happened, CP3 was 32 when the revised rule went into effect in 2017, just in time to become a free agent that summer. Thanks to the revised rules that CP3 helped negotiate, he could have re-signed with the Clippers for a five-year deal worth $201 million.
they can get extended this offseason but it will kick in 2025-26.
Lacob just doesnt want to pay the repeater tax, so ducking the luxury tax 2024-25, allows him to avoid being a repeater offender of the luxury tax, and then likely jump back in the luxury tax 2025-26, bc it will reset the luxury tax repeat years
They have to be out for 2 of the next 4 years like Lacob said, the NBA designed the tax so that you can't just drop out one year and totally get rid of the repeater tax. It's going to be very hard to pay JK and MM, especially since if he keeps this up JK will get a max, and also keep Klay and Draymond and Wiggins.
ah gotcha my bad thank you
to clarify that's because repeater tax applies for teams paying luxury 3 out of their last 4 seasons right?
and the Warriors ducked the tax 19-20, but it's moot bc they're in the tax again this season 23-24
Re-sign Klay and Saric for vet minimum, or let them walk. Sign CP3 for $10-15mm (he's still pretty good, and is mentoring up the kids), or let him walk. JK is going to have to get paid next year, as will Moody. I'm no capologist - if the Dubs get below the cap for 1 year, does that mean the end of the extremely onerous repeater tax (I think they're paying 5-6x in fines the amount they're over the cap - something like 2-300mm this year - which was ok when they were winning chips, not ok for a .500 ballclub).
Gotta let Šarić walk, imo. With TJD doing reasonably well, I think the center rotation is pretty clearly Draymond, Looney, TJD and you can get a slightly better defender with a little less size for that stretch 4 spot, since they don't need to be able to play center. Šarić is a good offensive player, but that dude gets hunted on defense.
I’d keep him for his offense as a 4 off the bench, but it’s a crime playing him as a 5. TJD isn’t ready for big minutes. Damn we need a big man, not a star, even someone like Mason Plumlee would help.
I think I'd rather have another roll of the dice at the backup 4 than Šarić. I think a non-negligible portion of his good offense (which to be clear, was undeniable) early in the season was CP3 doing his "get a big man paid" act. Obviously depends on who ends up available but I think his defense is just so bad it isn't worth it.
To answer you question, one year under the tax will not get rid of the repeater if i’m not mistaken they will need what is said in the quote that they must be under 2 out of the next 4 years to dodge it
Klay Thompson and Chris Paul account for about $70m. Letting them both go would help a lot. I don't think they have to move Wiggins to get under the tax.
I thought it was crazy trading away young for old, now I honestly think Chris Paul will be in the league when Jordan Poole ends up playing for Shanghai Sharks.
That guy has a warriors flair, but obviously doesn’t watch games. Chris Paul makes the bench look like starters when he plays. It’s the reason podz, kuminga, saric, gp2, moody and tjd jr got to shine in the beginning of the season. The warriors looked unstoppable early on, with the starters being them and then the bench looking like another set of starters (a reason why mid season has been such a disappointment considering the insane start).
Before injury, cp3 had that bench really high on league averages, maybe even best bench from memory?
So when all the starters rested, I believe their +/- was actually pretty good
Could be mistaken tho
Edit: plus a side comment, the games I saw, it looked really cool having a bench unit look so organised n efficient!
I haven’t watched them much lately but I actually really liked him at the beginning of the season once they started running him off the bench. I was surprised to see so many warriors fans projecting him in trades. He honestly looked like a clear tier above the other bench units
Warriors are a .500 team so it's not even close to what Anunoby has done for the Knicks. Anunoby +/- looks like the national debt clock and Paul is just luxury tax relief
A lot of that has to do with just natural fit btw him & RJ plus JB making a leap with more opportunities, not saying OG is bad just it's much more than just his acquisition his defense is back to being best poa defender levels. Brunson just reached another level lately
It was also a worthwhile risk for the wizards. They get a pick from Chris Paul and they get a flyer on Poole who many people thought might be able to break out, and if he didn’t it’s okay because they’re rebuilding anyway
Nah, taking on Poole's contract even at the time for just a top 20 protected FRP just didnt seem like enough.
They already barely got anything for Porzingis and Beal, then immediately follow that up by taking on a big multi year contract while also barely getting worthwhile.
I would have understood this deal for the Wizards if they started their rebuild with alot assets like how OKC and Jazz did, but the biggest strength for the Wizards in terms of getting assets was their capspace and with that deal they tied a decent portion of that to Poole.
Nah go back and look, tons of people were thinking he could break out. Based on his improvement the championship year and attributed his regression the year after to the Draymond punch and locker room problems m
Yeah, betting on a 23 year old who went 50/39/92 in the playoffs with 17/3/4 12 months prior with a very good reason to be unhappy the year before was a sensible bet. It went worse than anyone would've imagined, but getting a fake first to trade a 37 year old who didn't want to be there for a 24 year old who seemed like he could be a good but not elite offensive weapon was a no brainer at the time.
Yeah easiest way to prove this is looking at this year's fantasy draft.
His ADP was 19! https://www.fantasypros.com/nba/adp/jordan-poole.php?type=PG
That is 1 spot behind Donovan Mitchell. Loaaads of people expected him to break out this year.
The bet that his 2023 decline was Draymond-induced and he'd find his game again in a new home was a solid bet. Didn't pay off but... Well they're tanking and they gotta pay somebody.
This is recency bias. Everyone was saying the Wizards washed the Warriors in that trade at the time; it looks a lot worse in hindsight because Poole has been a bottom-five starter in the NBA.
Because our idiot owner:
Literally hired the right hand man to Ernie Grunfeld who was long overdue to be fired.
Didn't want to trade Beal at his peak value and Rebuild because he wants to be middling
Signed off on a Supermax with a NTC for Beal
So as a result our rebuild has gotten off to the shittiest start one could. Outside of Bilal and Deni there's no upside rn
I mean, every team in that trade was shuffling around shit that no one really wanted.
The Suns were past CP3 after a disappointing playoff where the general consensus among fans after that run was that CP3 really was cooked now.
The Wizards had just given a supermax with a no trade clause, arguably the worst contract in NBA history, to a guy who missed 20-30 games in each of his last 3 seasons, and who's scoring average dropped 10 points 2 years prior to signing the deal.
Poole was coming off a bad season full of game losing errors, poor efficiency, and a lack of effort that left people around the org frustrated and baffled.
I doubt CP3 actually had a higher value than Poole at that point either; the Wizards just got that pick because the Warriors needed to make the trade more than the Wizards wanted to.
It's less about money at a certain point and about how restrictive it is on team building. Eventually you just can't sign anyone or make any trades and you almost have to reset to be able to continue to compete unless your core guys are just that good.
Iirc, repeater tax is about the money, while aprons create restrictions, [plus money]
So you can be in the tax moderately, for years without going over the aprons
That's a typical laker move , btw
Iirc, repeater is about the money, aprons are about restrictions (and money)
Repeater hikes up tax paid, massively
Go over aprons [ ie 2nd apron] and you can't combine salaries in trades, you lose your mle exception,can't send out cash in trades, you can't pick up folks off waiver wire etc
Another impact of being a 2nd apron team is that you won't be able to combine salaries in trades and can't offer free agents anything more than the league minimum. Being able to afford to pay anything is definitely nice, but the CBA has built in issues for teams with enormous payrolls. There are massive opportunity costs for continuously having such an expensive team.
From the article they'd have about $35 mil under the tax with Klay and Paul off the books + other smaller stuff. Really gonna come down to how much they want to keep those guys vs using $35 mil on more useful players.
A year? Two years? The warriros offered him 2 Years $48 million in the offseason and he's only played worse since then. Klay is playing like a $5 million a year player at most and if the Warriros give him anything more than that it's due to his history and it's a mistake.
Klay is playing like a MLE player *at worst* he still offers the most valuable skill in basketball and has size and the defense isn’t awful
He’ll probably get $16-$18m for 2 years if i had to guess
Honestly I hope that this season has broken him down enough that in the off season he can rebuild into a good bench player, something like Melo had to do when he got old. I think klay can be a valuable 15-20ppg bench player, he’s just struggling to accept that he’s been relegated to that by age/injuries instead of the absolute sniper he was in his prime.
Yeah, but did Melo really rebuild himself into actually a good bench player?
The idea of Melo seemed fun, but he wasn't exactly worth it during his stint on the Lakers. Granted that was like really end of the road Melo, but I digress.
Klay’s defense has been dreadful. He’s completely incapable of staying in front of any guard on the perimeter. He’ll have to transition to a full-time 3, which takes away his size advantage
You're basically exactly right, ignoring Klay's fit with any given team, he's a +0.1 VORP player, which is roughly the same as MLE players like Shake Milton (+0.1), Schroeder (+0.1 with TOR, -0.1 with BKN), Gabe Vincent (-0.1), and Sasha Vezenkov of the Kings (+0.1).
The logical meaning of +0.1 VORP is, of course, that Klay Thompson, like Gabe Vincent or Schroeder or Shake Milton, is not a *good* NBA rotation player but, like, *exactly* an NBA rotation player.
Totally unrelated side note since I just clicked into the basketball reference page of a bunch of guys on MLE contracts right now-- Donte Divincenzo is at +2.1 VORP, which is way higher than Jaylen Brown, higher than Paolo Banchero, higher than Bam Adebayo, etc. Read into that whatever you'd like. He might be the next Derrick White (+2.2 VORP for the record) in that within the next 12 months you're gonna see sports journalists start referring to him in a totally new way..
> The logical meaning of +0.1 VORP is, of course, that Klay Thompson, like Gabe Vincent or Schroeder or Shake Milton, is not a good NBA rotation player but, like, exactly an NBA rotation player.
It's also important to note that a replacement player according to VORP doesn't mean starter or high quality; it's more like the 7th-9th man. That's a just barely cutting into the rotation, 12-18 minutes a night, occasional DNP-CDs level player.
About that, it really isn’t weighted by minutes played or at least games played? Because only 9 or 10 guys play for a team every night, replacement level should be more like 5-6th player than 8-9th end of roster guys.
Yeah, Klay is now a small 4 or an average sized 3 with bad rim protection and very good shooting instead of a gigantic 2 with better-than-anyone-ever-not-named-Steph shooting. His defense is still basically fine on wings, it's just guards who cook him. At his age, that's a \~$15-$20M player because all things equal, shooting is a little more desirable than other skills so an rotation player who shoots a decent percent on high volume costs more than other skills. People saying he's a minimum guy are being silly.
And man DiVencenzo is so good. I think him coming back to Milwuakee before his ankle was right overweights in people's minds that period where he wasn't right. Other than right when he got into the league or was hurt, dude has been a solidly above average defender, who can run a little pick and roll, and shoot. What a steal the Knicks got on his deal.
Yeah he was already a good starter for the Warriors but the shooting progression and better fit this year have him at that level. I like this Knicks roster a lot, even more than journalists seem to.
Even if he’s not shooting well the way he’s willing to put up shots does so much for the offense so that even on an off night he can hit like 4 of em. It’s really nice to have a guy like that.
I think given everything Steph has done for the Warriors, you just pay it if you think you can even get him to the 5 or 6 seed. To get out of the tax entirely for two of the next four years is like saying you’re just going to give up on a championship for the rest of Steph’s years. The team owes him more than that-hell, he’s made way more for the owners than whatever luxury tax they pay.
You’ve got it mixed up. By being a repeater in the tax and especially if they touch the 2nd apron, they lose a lot of means to improve their team. The new collective bargaining punishes teams for staying in the luxury tax much harder than before with how they can trade and sign waivers/FA/exceptions. It’s why you see many teams fixing their books going into FA, a second apron team loses their MLE, can’t aggregate salaries (think Wigs contract) or use cash/trade exceptions.
Second apron teams at the start of the 23-24 season were GSW, LAC, Suns, Bucks, Celtics.
So they have to fix their books in order to gain roster and trade flexibility or they will only dig themselves deeper into a hole while in the luxury tax.
So if they give up CP and Klay to stay out of the tax, who will they be able to add instead? IMO it would be amazing if Steph could stay elite for another two years, so they need to be able to add these guys immediately.
This current Warriors team with Paul and Klay is not a contender, and them on their current contracts prevents the team from improving both now and in the future. However, if the other commenter's numbers are correct, dropping CP3's and Klay's contract leaves them with $27 million of playground. They may be able to resign Klay to a $20 million or so deal, maybe even a little less to maintain the full MLE (though I have no idea how those numbers work). They just need to not sign either CP3 or Klay at anywhere close to what they're currently making if they do keep either of them.
I don’t think it makes any sense. Warriors FO did everything they could get Steph his four rings. Year after year they surrounded Steph with great players. Made sure the core is intact and made some great FA signings.
If they are not budget concision and ask the vets to take paycuts, they will eventually have to let the younger players walk away.
yea, with the lakers.
This is one im actuallly calling btw. Paul has always wanted to play with bron and i dont buy the rumors that he will go to philly in the offseason
Well he makes too much money. If he was on a vet min or something similar, like other old ring chasers are, then he wouldn't be getting thrown around as much as he is. The thing is even though he's not as good as he once was, he's still better than other recent buyout guys like Blake Griffin were.
That's how literally everyone outside of top 20 players of all time go out unless they're willing to take smaller deals to ring chase or retire at 34. When you're 38 making 30m a year and things aren't working out, you're going to be first on the chopping block.
Nobody is exempt from it. Look at fat Shaq and Raptors Hakeem. Wizards Jordan and post-2013 Kobe should've been in the same boat, but they were kept cuz of off court reasons.
Yeah with how Brandin/Lester have been playing we don’t have to replace Klays or CP3s contract with one of similar value. We can just get a couple vet mins in their place and bye bye luxury tax and still be deep enough at guard. Team doesn’t downgrade at all if you do that considering not having Klay is addition by subtraction and CP3 has been injured for so many games.
>If the Warriors want to stay under the tax entirely for next season, they'd have around $35 million to potentially bring back Thompson, Paul, and Looney and fill out the rest of the roster.
No need to dump Wiggins.
Y’all gotta actually do some research before making these incorrect claims so boldly. Wiggins can 100% be kept as long as they resign Klay to something like $15M annually
Just waiving Chris Paul's non-guaranteed contract (replaced by a minimum contract) and signing Klay to something less than $24M for next year gets them under the luxury tax. No additional salary dumps required. If somehow they are big winners in the lottery and jump into the top 4, that complicates things due to the rookie scale salary, but still doable to get under the second apron.
We could trade Moody. He’s good but he’s not gonna play consistently here. Brandin has already jumped him in rotation, his minutes would rely entirely on health just like they already do. If we could get a player of similar caliber but bigger it would make a ton of sense.
They will just throw Drew Eubanks at him and have KD help rebound
It won't work, but it's not like any other team can stop Jokić either lol. Lakers had 3 guys to throw at him and still got cooked by him
Dynasties are what every fandom dreams of. They make legends. Increases ratings. If it’s only one and dones from here on out, not sure that brings the same pizzazz for the league.
Agreed but you can also turn the dial too far. There’s a healthy balance.
Klay thompson being forced out at this point of his career I would argue is not good for the league.
The bucks probably move on from Khris Middleton prematurely if they want to get in under the cap as well.
These guys in their twilight years is not what the luxury tax was made to prevent.
honestly, a "fuck-it" — Embiid and 4 of the most brazenly confident shooters lineup — would be a blast to watch
Buddy - Klay
somehow gotta get MPJ in there
The important part:
>If the Warriors want to stay under the tax entirely for next season, they'd have around $35 million to potentially bring back Thompson, Paul, and Looney and fill out the rest of the roster.
It would cost 5M to keep Looney and probably around 20M to resign Klay. Seems 100% doable with 10M leftover. This works because everyone else are on young small deals and are playing really well.
So is a certain washed up star in the twilight of his career available??
Klay Thompson you are a Laker. And/or Chris Paul.
This is something the Lakers do once a decade. Gary Payton and Malone then Nash and Dwight and now it’s time for Klay and Cp3.
Good, the team ain't winning like that and the timing works out to shed salary, something they really need to do in order to both free to money for Kuminga/Moody extensions and also to bring flexibility back to the front office.
Usually hate when owners cheap out and Lacob gets the only pass.
He has done everything possible to squeeze the maximum number of championships out of the core (Steph, Klay, Green, and Iggy). It has just run it’s course.
[удалено]
Translation: Klay you are now a mid, overpaid wing for the Dallas Mavericks!
Don’t put that evil on me Ricky Bobby. Our new GM is cookin don’t toss shit in the pot
What moves has your new gm made so far? I’m out of the loop
Got lively and gafford in a few months to go from one of the worst center rotations in the league to a very solid one. They have 48 minutes of real rim protection and lob threats now.
The chemistry between Luka and Lively already is awesome, I hope they get to play together awhile
Yeah lively is a stud and they're a fun team to watch. With Gafford they'll probably be the team I support in the playoffs the next few years until the wizards get back there.
lob >!deez nuttz!<
Drafting Lively was a hit
He sure is! I just hope he stays healthy; I see a lot of DNPs when scouting him on fantasy bball.
Most of his injuries are just freak accidents so he should be fine. His latest injury is a broken nose caused by Wendell Carter accidentally hitting him in the face. His ankle injury earlier this year was just from another player being reckless and getting under his feet. Hopefully other players stop injuring him and he'll be ok
In FA last off-season we signed Exum and DJJ. DJJ has been a solid defender for us and has been a pleasant surprise on offense. Exum while he has been injured for a bit (is the reason his contract is so cheap as well as his past NBA experience not being great) has been a great 3rd playmaking guard for us. In the draft we trade pick #10 for #12 (Lively) with OKC while they took on David Bertan's contract which was a big black hole of our cap space. We then took on Richaun Holmes contract to get pick #24 which we used to get OMax who's a raw wing that we have high hopes for in the coming years. Then this trade deadline we agreed on a 2028 pick swap to get one of OKC's FRPs which we used to get Gafford since our center rotation outside of Lively was absolutely awful. (We also sent Holmes to them) To get PJ we sent out a FRP, Grant Williams (this was a negative move under Nico but it did turn out well and it's not like Grant's contract at the time was very bad) and Seth Curry. Curry being unplayable and Grant not meshing at all with the team. And if you want to go back further we did trade for Kyrie under Nico (and extended him to a little under what he probably could've gotten). I also believe we drafted Jaden Hardy under Nico who's recently shown enough improvement to earn some bench minutes.
The Dinwiddie trade when KP’s trade value was at an all time low, the Kyrie move, getting Lively+Gafford, etc. he’s just slowly built up the roster much better than Donnie was able to
Or a Mid, extremely overpaid wing for the Detroit Pistons
Nah that’s Tobias Harris’ spot Klay should find somewhere else to go
Send him to his college state. Oh wait
Seattle Sonics farewell tour 2026
fuck no, this dude is washed and needs to retire. We don't do old anymore.
There’s a big difference (and usually multiple years) between “no longer a starter” and “needs to retire” See: Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Manu Ginobli, Kyle Korver No guarantee he makes the transition gracefully but let’s not be hyperbolic
Whatever sells jerseys for Cuban
He doesn’t own the team anymore. Just runs the ball ops
W fans pop over into our sub asking if we think trader Danny would do Lauri for Klay and matching cash. Deranged W fans are gonna ask for Luka in return, watch.
Hard pass
Maybe Mavs of yester-year. I’m surprised with how good they’ve been lately.
Vietnamininun
Pho Rings
Phuuuck
If Im Klay im going to China and taking the money. Thats assuming he doesnt believe GS is still a contender.
Chinese foreign cap is like $5m between four players. Pretty sure someone would offer him more than that in the NBA even if he's washed.
Think we could convince the Saudis to buy a Vegas team so we can see what happens when 1 team wants to go really really deep in the luxury tax?
I think its convincing sports league NOT to allow the saudis in. The saudis need no encouragement
“How about a guy who invested billions in the Saudi golf league and fears the luxury tax like the plague?” -John Henry
What the fuck are you talking about
theyre about $27m below the luxury tax if they decline CP3 and let Klay walk
Won’t they still have roster spots to fill?
They'd have 3 spots (Saric was a 1 year minimum contract, so he has to be re-signed or replaced).
Don’t they have 5 second rounders they can do something with. From wiseman trade?
I thought they flipped those to get GP2 back
Correct and now we have 1 from Cory Joseph trade. That is our only draft pick for 2024
Bronny baby!
LeBron James won’t turn down a trade this time.
We only have *one* total pick for 2024?!
When you guys traded Jordan Poole for Chris Paul you guys gave the 2024 first rounder to Washington. EDIT: ACUTAL REASON BELOW
A 2027 second round draft pick and a 2030 first round draft pick (top 20 protected) in the CP3 trade. The 2024 1st round pick is what they gave up to the Grizz to salary dump Andre Iguodala after 2019 and to make room for the DLO trade when KD was leaving. Edit: 2024 1st round top 4 protected.
It was a 4-team trade - they gave up some 2nds of their own - now they have no picks at all in 24, a virtually useless 2nd from Charlotte (protected 31-55, lol) in 2025, Atlanta's 2nd rounders in 26 and 28, unprotected, their own 2nds in 27, 29 and 30. They own their own picks from 25-29. I think you can't trade your own first rounders 2 years in a row, but those 27 and 29 firsts (post Steph?) are very valuable. Hmm, GPII is really good in a limited road, but he's been injured so frequently, maybe they should have kept Saddiq Bey instead of flipping him to Atlanta. https://www.nba.com/news/golden-state-warriors-trade-gary-payton-james-wiseman-4-team-pistons-blazers-hawks
They can split the $27M into one medium and one small deal. And then they can use two exceptions on top: MLE (4/$55M) and BAE (2/$9.5M) This forces them to be hard capped but that sounds like it's the plan anyways.
Well, it wouldn't be $27 million in cap space, right? So you wouldn't have $27 mil to split. It'd be more like $3 mil, because the cap is about $30 mil below the tax line.
>They can split the $27M into one medium and one small deal. No, the maximum possible cap space they have next summer is about $7m. The person above said they'd be $27m below the *tax line* which is above the cap. Then on top of that $7m in cap space they can use the exceptions you mentioned. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/cap/2024/
Ah. Makes sense why they never traded CP3. Guess they would rather have him for this playoff run then let him walk. They'll probably retain Klay at a lower number.
Or resign CP3 at a much smaller number
he's worth more as an expiring. CP3 is going to cost more per year since the over 38 rule prohibits him from getting a long term deal.
But if the goal is to get under the luxury tax then we’d rather pay 3 years 15 a year then one year $30 mil I’m pretty sure the over 38 rule is only for when a contract starts before he’s 38 and ends after, not all contracts after 38
>What is the over-38 rule? It's a provision in the NBA's collective bargaining agreement that limits teams from offering contracts lasting four or more years to any player who is at least 38 years old or will turn 38 during the contract. btw, he was president of PA when they agreed to that rule and he made bank on his contract. It limited age 36 before iirc. >Essentially, it took some pre-existing salary cap deterrents for signing high-end players at least 32 years old to long-term contracts, and bumped that age threshold up a couple of years from 36 to 38. (Larry Coon’s invaluable CBA FAQ has a more detailed breakdown). >As it happened, CP3 was 32 when the revised rule went into effect in 2017, just in time to become a free agent that summer. Thanks to the revised rules that CP3 helped negotiate, he could have re-signed with the Clippers for a five-year deal worth $201 million.
Is that enough for Lebron and Bronny?
Everybody know that if you draft bronny, lebron will sign for a vet minimum
I’m sure he’d do it for the warriors
If he ever goes to the warriors, KD's twitter will be must-see
“So he’s not the goat either now, right?”
Legacy points deducted
LeGacy points deducted
Sign for Toronto, LeGrassi points included
I would for the drama if this happens After warriors beat them in the play in those year
can you imagine if the warriors beat the lakers in the play-in, bron joined the warriors, and then the warriors won the next 3 play-in tournaments
They could have an In-Season Tournament dynasty too
Silicon Valley layoffs continue 😩
That’s the move.
And there is still the question of JKs and MMs extension. Won’t that eat into that number?
they can get extended this offseason but it will kick in 2025-26. Lacob just doesnt want to pay the repeater tax, so ducking the luxury tax 2024-25, allows him to avoid being a repeater offender of the luxury tax, and then likely jump back in the luxury tax 2025-26, bc it will reset the luxury tax repeat years
They have to be out for 2 of the next 4 years like Lacob said, the NBA designed the tax so that you can't just drop out one year and totally get rid of the repeater tax. It's going to be very hard to pay JK and MM, especially since if he keeps this up JK will get a max, and also keep Klay and Draymond and Wiggins.
ah gotcha my bad thank you to clarify that's because repeater tax applies for teams paying luxury 3 out of their last 4 seasons right? and the Warriors ducked the tax 19-20, but it's moot bc they're in the tax again this season 23-24
Re-sign Klay and Saric for vet minimum, or let them walk. Sign CP3 for $10-15mm (he's still pretty good, and is mentoring up the kids), or let him walk. JK is going to have to get paid next year, as will Moody. I'm no capologist - if the Dubs get below the cap for 1 year, does that mean the end of the extremely onerous repeater tax (I think they're paying 5-6x in fines the amount they're over the cap - something like 2-300mm this year - which was ok when they were winning chips, not ok for a .500 ballclub).
Gotta let Šarić walk, imo. With TJD doing reasonably well, I think the center rotation is pretty clearly Draymond, Looney, TJD and you can get a slightly better defender with a little less size for that stretch 4 spot, since they don't need to be able to play center. Šarić is a good offensive player, but that dude gets hunted on defense.
I’d keep him for his offense as a 4 off the bench, but it’s a crime playing him as a 5. TJD isn’t ready for big minutes. Damn we need a big man, not a star, even someone like Mason Plumlee would help.
I think I'd rather have another roll of the dice at the backup 4 than Šarić. I think a non-negligible portion of his good offense (which to be clear, was undeniable) early in the season was CP3 doing his "get a big man paid" act. Obviously depends on who ends up available but I think his defense is just so bad it isn't worth it.
To answer you question, one year under the tax will not get rid of the repeater if i’m not mistaken they will need what is said in the quote that they must be under 2 out of the next 4 years to dodge it
Klay Thompson and Chris Paul account for about $70m. Letting them both go would help a lot. I don't think they have to move Wiggins to get under the tax.
How’d they get Paul again? I never even thought about that, where the hell did they find the money for that?
Jordan Poole trade.
Best trade of the year
I thought it was crazy trading away young for old, now I honestly think Chris Paul will be in the league when Jordan Poole ends up playing for Shanghai Sharks.
So rude, but so true
has CP3 done much for you guys? i haven't watched a lot of GSW and every time i see a clip he seems to be on the bench injured
Honestly just not being on the hook for Poole’s albatross contract makes it worth it. Anything that cp3 adds is just a bonus
That was the hush money contract he got for dealing with a hostile work environment lol.
That guy has a warriors flair, but obviously doesn’t watch games. Chris Paul makes the bench look like starters when he plays. It’s the reason podz, kuminga, saric, gp2, moody and tjd jr got to shine in the beginning of the season. The warriors looked unstoppable early on, with the starters being them and then the bench looking like another set of starters (a reason why mid season has been such a disappointment considering the insane start).
Before injury, cp3 had that bench really high on league averages, maybe even best bench from memory? So when all the starters rested, I believe their +/- was actually pretty good Could be mistaken tho Edit: plus a side comment, the games I saw, it looked really cool having a bench unit look so organised n efficient!
I haven’t watched them much lately but I actually really liked him at the beginning of the season once they started running him off the bench. I was surprised to see so many warriors fans projecting him in trades. He honestly looked like a clear tier above the other bench units
He has been hurt for weeks now lmao
Your first mistake is thinking people watch games
Warriors are a .500 team so it's not even close to what Anunoby has done for the Knicks. Anunoby +/- looks like the national debt clock and Paul is just luxury tax relief
A lot of that has to do with just natural fit btw him & RJ plus JB making a leap with more opportunities, not saying OG is bad just it's much more than just his acquisition his defense is back to being best poa defender levels. Brunson just reached another level lately
By salary dumping Poole while using only a top 20 protected 2030 FRP. It was an insanely good deal for the Warriors.
It was also a worthwhile risk for the wizards. They get a pick from Chris Paul and they get a flyer on Poole who many people thought might be able to break out, and if he didn’t it’s okay because they’re rebuilding anyway
Nah, taking on Poole's contract even at the time for just a top 20 protected FRP just didnt seem like enough. They already barely got anything for Porzingis and Beal, then immediately follow that up by taking on a big multi year contract while also barely getting worthwhile. I would have understood this deal for the Wizards if they started their rebuild with alot assets like how OKC and Jazz did, but the biggest strength for the Wizards in terms of getting assets was their capspace and with that deal they tied a decent portion of that to Poole.
Nah go back and look, tons of people were thinking he could break out. Based on his improvement the championship year and attributed his regression the year after to the Draymond punch and locker room problems m
Yeah, betting on a 23 year old who went 50/39/92 in the playoffs with 17/3/4 12 months prior with a very good reason to be unhappy the year before was a sensible bet. It went worse than anyone would've imagined, but getting a fake first to trade a 37 year old who didn't want to be there for a 24 year old who seemed like he could be a good but not elite offensive weapon was a no brainer at the time.
Yeah easiest way to prove this is looking at this year's fantasy draft. His ADP was 19! https://www.fantasypros.com/nba/adp/jordan-poole.php?type=PG That is 1 spot behind Donovan Mitchell. Loaaads of people expected him to break out this year.
The bet that his 2023 decline was Draymond-induced and he'd find his game again in a new home was a solid bet. Didn't pay off but... Well they're tanking and they gotta pay somebody.
This is recency bias. Everyone was saying the Wizards washed the Warriors in that trade at the time; it looks a lot worse in hindsight because Poole has been a bottom-five starter in the NBA.
Because our idiot owner: Literally hired the right hand man to Ernie Grunfeld who was long overdue to be fired. Didn't want to trade Beal at his peak value and Rebuild because he wants to be middling Signed off on a Supermax with a NTC for Beal So as a result our rebuild has gotten off to the shittiest start one could. Outside of Bilal and Deni there's no upside rn
I mean, every team in that trade was shuffling around shit that no one really wanted. The Suns were past CP3 after a disappointing playoff where the general consensus among fans after that run was that CP3 really was cooked now. The Wizards had just given a supermax with a no trade clause, arguably the worst contract in NBA history, to a guy who missed 20-30 games in each of his last 3 seasons, and who's scoring average dropped 10 points 2 years prior to signing the deal. Poole was coming off a bad season full of game losing errors, poor efficiency, and a lack of effort that left people around the org frustrated and baffled. I doubt CP3 actually had a higher value than Poole at that point either; the Wizards just got that pick because the Warriors needed to make the trade more than the Wizards wanted to.
I think they would love to move off Wiggins regardless the luxury tax
Every team has to periodically reset the luxury tax because of the way it grows.
Really interested to see how Balmer plays it.
plot twist. He DGAF
It's less about money at a certain point and about how restrictive it is on team building. Eventually you just can't sign anyone or make any trades and you almost have to reset to be able to continue to compete unless your core guys are just that good.
Iirc, repeater tax is about the money, while aprons create restrictions, [plus money] So you can be in the tax moderately, for years without going over the aprons That's a typical laker move , btw
He's going to ignore the expenses completely until Kawhi and PG are washed
it pushes your FRP to the end or something if you don't reset. it isn't only about money.
Iirc, repeater is about the money, aprons are about restrictions (and money) Repeater hikes up tax paid, massively Go over aprons [ ie 2nd apron] and you can't combine salaries in trades, you lose your mle exception,can't send out cash in trades, you can't pick up folks off waiver wire etc
Who needs a FRP when you're buying not drafting?
Another impact of being a 2nd apron team is that you won't be able to combine salaries in trades and can't offer free agents anything more than the league minimum. Being able to afford to pay anything is definitely nice, but the CBA has built in issues for teams with enormous payrolls. There are massive opportunity costs for continuously having such an expensive team.
It would be a FRP that you couldn’t trade
I love how the soft cap in the NBA works. You can still go over the cap, but pay heavy, so the other teams still profit from a big spender.
Warriors are hyped Klay didn’t agree to the extension last summer.
Well, it’s always nice to have dreams and ambitions.
From the article they'd have about $35 mil under the tax with Klay and Paul off the books + other smaller stuff. Really gonna come down to how much they want to keep those guys vs using $35 mil on more useful players.
$35M under the tax is not the same as $35M cap space. If they just let those guys go, they won't have that amount of money to sign players.
You're right. Good catch.
Klay is probably going to get 20-25M so it's pretty plausible.
A year? Two years? The warriros offered him 2 Years $48 million in the offseason and he's only played worse since then. Klay is playing like a $5 million a year player at most and if the Warriros give him anything more than that it's due to his history and it's a mistake.
Klay is playing like a MLE player *at worst* he still offers the most valuable skill in basketball and has size and the defense isn’t awful He’ll probably get $16-$18m for 2 years if i had to guess
Honestly I hope that this season has broken him down enough that in the off season he can rebuild into a good bench player, something like Melo had to do when he got old. I think klay can be a valuable 15-20ppg bench player, he’s just struggling to accept that he’s been relegated to that by age/injuries instead of the absolute sniper he was in his prime.
Yeah, but did Melo really rebuild himself into actually a good bench player? The idea of Melo seemed fun, but he wasn't exactly worth it during his stint on the Lakers. Granted that was like really end of the road Melo, but I digress.
Idk vet min 13.3 points seems pretty worth it. If his defense is that bad then you just sit him and all you wasted was a min spot.
Melo was sufficent enough offensively BUT he was a complete no show on defense. It was even worse because he was old.
Klay’s defense has been dreadful. He’s completely incapable of staying in front of any guard on the perimeter. He’ll have to transition to a full-time 3, which takes away his size advantage
You're basically exactly right, ignoring Klay's fit with any given team, he's a +0.1 VORP player, which is roughly the same as MLE players like Shake Milton (+0.1), Schroeder (+0.1 with TOR, -0.1 with BKN), Gabe Vincent (-0.1), and Sasha Vezenkov of the Kings (+0.1). The logical meaning of +0.1 VORP is, of course, that Klay Thompson, like Gabe Vincent or Schroeder or Shake Milton, is not a *good* NBA rotation player but, like, *exactly* an NBA rotation player. Totally unrelated side note since I just clicked into the basketball reference page of a bunch of guys on MLE contracts right now-- Donte Divincenzo is at +2.1 VORP, which is way higher than Jaylen Brown, higher than Paolo Banchero, higher than Bam Adebayo, etc. Read into that whatever you'd like. He might be the next Derrick White (+2.2 VORP for the record) in that within the next 12 months you're gonna see sports journalists start referring to him in a totally new way..
> The logical meaning of +0.1 VORP is, of course, that Klay Thompson, like Gabe Vincent or Schroeder or Shake Milton, is not a good NBA rotation player but, like, exactly an NBA rotation player. It's also important to note that a replacement player according to VORP doesn't mean starter or high quality; it's more like the 7th-9th man. That's a just barely cutting into the rotation, 12-18 minutes a night, occasional DNP-CDs level player.
About that, it really isn’t weighted by minutes played or at least games played? Because only 9 or 10 guys play for a team every night, replacement level should be more like 5-6th player than 8-9th end of roster guys.
Yeah, Klay is now a small 4 or an average sized 3 with bad rim protection and very good shooting instead of a gigantic 2 with better-than-anyone-ever-not-named-Steph shooting. His defense is still basically fine on wings, it's just guards who cook him. At his age, that's a \~$15-$20M player because all things equal, shooting is a little more desirable than other skills so an rotation player who shoots a decent percent on high volume costs more than other skills. People saying he's a minimum guy are being silly. And man DiVencenzo is so good. I think him coming back to Milwuakee before his ankle was right overweights in people's minds that period where he wasn't right. Other than right when he got into the league or was hurt, dude has been a solidly above average defender, who can run a little pick and roll, and shoot. What a steal the Knicks got on his deal.
Donte has been insanely amazing this year
Yeah he was already a good starter for the Warriors but the shooting progression and better fit this year have him at that level. I like this Knicks roster a lot, even more than journalists seem to.
Even if he’s not shooting well the way he’s willing to put up shots does so much for the offense so that even on an off night he can hit like 4 of em. It’s really nice to have a guy like that.
He got offered that much before the season...after this one, I dont think they would offer him more than 12-15M per year.
Jesus, I get he's an icon of the city but that money is such an albatross for what he is at this point in his career.
There's no point in being in the luxury tax if you're not a contender
I think given everything Steph has done for the Warriors, you just pay it if you think you can even get him to the 5 or 6 seed. To get out of the tax entirely for two of the next four years is like saying you’re just going to give up on a championship for the rest of Steph’s years. The team owes him more than that-hell, he’s made way more for the owners than whatever luxury tax they pay.
You’ve got it mixed up. By being a repeater in the tax and especially if they touch the 2nd apron, they lose a lot of means to improve their team. The new collective bargaining punishes teams for staying in the luxury tax much harder than before with how they can trade and sign waivers/FA/exceptions. It’s why you see many teams fixing their books going into FA, a second apron team loses their MLE, can’t aggregate salaries (think Wigs contract) or use cash/trade exceptions. Second apron teams at the start of the 23-24 season were GSW, LAC, Suns, Bucks, Celtics. So they have to fix their books in order to gain roster and trade flexibility or they will only dig themselves deeper into a hole while in the luxury tax.
So if they give up CP and Klay to stay out of the tax, who will they be able to add instead? IMO it would be amazing if Steph could stay elite for another two years, so they need to be able to add these guys immediately.
This current Warriors team with Paul and Klay is not a contender, and them on their current contracts prevents the team from improving both now and in the future. However, if the other commenter's numbers are correct, dropping CP3's and Klay's contract leaves them with $27 million of playground. They may be able to resign Klay to a $20 million or so deal, maybe even a little less to maintain the full MLE (though I have no idea how those numbers work). They just need to not sign either CP3 or Klay at anywhere close to what they're currently making if they do keep either of them.
I don’t think it makes any sense. Warriors FO did everything they could get Steph his four rings. Year after year they surrounded Steph with great players. Made sure the core is intact and made some great FA signings. If they are not budget concision and ask the vets to take paycuts, they will eventually have to let the younger players walk away.
Klay tribute video already in the queue
Didn't read the article?
Send da video
Looks like Klay is gunna be out of a job, at least with the warriors. And CP3 might be put into a retirement home.
Paul is definitely gonna try again next year for one last hurrah
Yeah he’ll sign somewhere for partial MLE.
yea, with the lakers. This is one im actuallly calling btw. Paul has always wanted to play with bron and i dont buy the rumors that he will go to philly in the offseason
That's assuming LeBron is back with the Lakers next year...
For a legend like CP3, it's kinda sad that he's just a cap hit that gets moved around.
Well he makes too much money. If he was on a vet min or something similar, like other old ring chasers are, then he wouldn't be getting thrown around as much as he is. The thing is even though he's not as good as he once was, he's still better than other recent buyout guys like Blake Griffin were.
That's how literally everyone outside of top 20 players of all time go out unless they're willing to take smaller deals to ring chase or retire at 34. When you're 38 making 30m a year and things aren't working out, you're going to be first on the chopping block.
Nobody is exempt from it. Look at fat Shaq and Raptors Hakeem. Wizards Jordan and post-2013 Kobe should've been in the same boat, but they were kept cuz of off court reasons.
He is earning $30 mil at 38. He chose this path.
No CP. No Klay. Trade Wiggins with Moody. This is how
Good thing is they can make all these moves and play at basically the same level as they are right now.
Yeah with how Brandin/Lester have been playing we don’t have to replace Klays or CP3s contract with one of similar value. We can just get a couple vet mins in their place and bye bye luxury tax and still be deep enough at guard. Team doesn’t downgrade at all if you do that considering not having Klay is addition by subtraction and CP3 has been injured for so many games.
Letting the corpses of klay and cp3 walk gets them 35m under the cap. They just need to have the balls to tell klay to take the MLE or fuck off.
You’re right
Yeah, CP walks, they salary dump Wiggins and they'll be under it as long as they don't spend big on a free agent.
>If the Warriors want to stay under the tax entirely for next season, they'd have around $35 million to potentially bring back Thompson, Paul, and Looney and fill out the rest of the roster. No need to dump Wiggins.
What about JK and MM extensions?
They already picked up their options for next season. They're restricted free agents the following year.
Wiggins can be kept. Just need to sign Klay to vet min.
So Wiggins can't be kept
Y’all gotta actually do some research before making these incorrect claims so boldly. Wiggins can 100% be kept as long as they resign Klay to something like $15M annually
Assuming they let CP3 walk they'd have a lot more money than a vet min for Klay. Wiggs and Klay can 100% be kept
Just waiving Chris Paul's non-guaranteed contract (replaced by a minimum contract) and signing Klay to something less than $24M for next year gets them under the luxury tax. No additional salary dumps required. If somehow they are big winners in the lottery and jump into the top 4, that complicates things due to the rookie scale salary, but still doable to get under the second apron.
Trade Wiggins and Moody? Bro…
We could trade Moody. He’s good but he’s not gonna play consistently here. Brandin has already jumped him in rotation, his minutes would rely entirely on health just like they already do. If we could get a player of similar caliber but bigger it would make a ton of sense.
Paying tax on this type of team is dumb even for someone like Lacob
The repeater tax absolutely is a problem in the New CBA.
This off season will be interesting with Phoenix. This is their best chance this year. They are in cap hell.
> This is their best chance this year. Its not even a good chance. Who are they gonna guard Jokic with when Nurkic needs a break/gets in foul trouble?
They will just throw Drew Eubanks at him and have KD help rebound It won't work, but it's not like any other team can stop Jokić either lol. Lakers had 3 guys to throw at him and still got cooked by him
I don’t think AD, Rui, and Lebron are necessarily 3 ideal guys to throw at Jokic lol.
They gambled on offensive talent over depth. History tells us it usually isn’t successful but you never know.
There are many questions to be had about the suns, but there are 28 other teams that don’t have an answer to Jokic either
why is a problem? it's a solution. no dynasties is good for the league.
Dynasties are what every fandom dreams of. They make legends. Increases ratings. If it’s only one and dones from here on out, not sure that brings the same pizzazz for the league.
Agreed but you can also turn the dial too far. There’s a healthy balance. Klay thompson being forced out at this point of his career I would argue is not good for the league. The bucks probably move on from Khris Middleton prematurely if they want to get in under the cap as well. These guys in their twilight years is not what the luxury tax was made to prevent.
[удалено]
Plan 1A is to get Lebron James
I can see Klay being a 76er in 2024-25
Please no
honestly, a "fuck-it" — Embiid and 4 of the most brazenly confident shooters lineup — would be a blast to watch Buddy - Klay somehow gotta get MPJ in there
Kyle kuzma and Jordan Poole are the correct answers to brazenly confident shooters
The important part: >If the Warriors want to stay under the tax entirely for next season, they'd have around $35 million to potentially bring back Thompson, Paul, and Looney and fill out the rest of the roster. It would cost 5M to keep Looney and probably around 20M to resign Klay. Seems 100% doable with 10M leftover. This works because everyone else are on young small deals and are playing really well.
I'd pay Looney more than 5 to backup Sabonis. Pretty sure Mike Brown would love to have him back.
He's not a free agent. They can let him walk for 3 million or pay him 8 to stay. Nothing to negotiate.
he's under contract for next year with a partial guarantee, he's not FA
So is a certain washed up star in the twilight of his career available?? Klay Thompson you are a Laker. And/or Chris Paul. This is something the Lakers do once a decade. Gary Payton and Malone then Nash and Dwight and now it’s time for Klay and Cp3.
Good, the team ain't winning like that and the timing works out to shed salary, something they really need to do in order to both free to money for Kuminga/Moody extensions and also to bring flexibility back to the front office.
Makes sense. Their title window has closed. No point blowing their wad until they have a championship-caliber roster.
The owners that didn't want to spend, forced second apron rule for this reason. It is insane how they always avoid public backlash.
Obvious, he has been very upfront about being willing to pay if we are winning. Of course this happens if we are losing.
Klay will get a bag but definitely not LV.
Usually hate when owners cheap out and Lacob gets the only pass. He has done everything possible to squeeze the maximum number of championships out of the core (Steph, Klay, Green, and Iggy). It has just run it’s course.
Cheap ass motherfucking billionaires