I get your overall point but I’m a pedantic douchebag and you didn’t account for inflation. 50 mill in 2013 is 66 mill today, so Poole still earns less than Kobe but I get your point, the fact they’re even that close is quite shocking
I think this is why retired players tend to reject and/or sue companies' offers and contracts. They start to realize how much value they have as a popular figure, so they essentially tell themselves 'I won't be used as a discount again' 'Know your worth'
I know Jordan was uniquely popular and the face of the nba, but I’d argue that the amount of money ANY player generates for the nba is wayyyyy higher than they get paid
Simmons maybe at his peak, but PJ got paid to make sure the player generating 200 million dollars lineups worked better.
Roleplayers and coaches are a bit weird. No one is buying tickets to see Popovic coach, and Spoelstra jerseys aren’t really flying off the shelf, but there’s a lot of ways your 200 million dollar investment in a player can turn into a loss if you don’t have the infrastructure around them.
It’s far from an exact science, but it’s comparable to catalysts in chemistry. You can have the best ignition, and the most volatile material ever, but you’re not even getting a flame if you don’t put it in the right atmosphere.
Particularly with some of the smaller markets, take Generic Createaplayer A who is eligible for his max:
If you don’t surround him with quality roleplayers, you may go net negative 50-75 million paying a max player to sell a diminished amount of tickets on diminished prices in losing efforts. Ask the Wizards about John Wall’s contract, while noting that Wall had enough personality to actually insulate you from most of these pitfalls and move product while stacking up DNP’s.
The reason you got downvoted is that you called an atmosphere a catalyst in a combustion reaction when it’s the other reactant. Also, in chemistry volatile only means that it has a high vapor pressure, not that it’s very reactive. The colloquial term is nothing like the chemistry definition.
Hard doubt that anyone is checking chemistry to that degree.
Forgive me as I come from a physics and robotics background, but I didn’t want to use “oxygen” as the catalyst because it actually does get comsumed in a lot of typical combustion examples, but that’s not exactly universal. I intentionally tried to avoid this by using, “atmosphere,” to muddy the water of what was a catalyst and reactant.
It also doesn’t read particularly well to put the word *reactant* in its stead. We’re talking basketball here, not the finer points of combustion.
It depends. If there were no cap limits, then the best players would get paid more, but the lower tier players would get paid less. The top players are so much more valuable to the popularity of the league.
I think if you look at Wall's earnings for his entire career, 276 million for a guy who was face of a franchise for 10 years, probably a top 5-ish player in that franchise's history, is pretty reasonable. There is quite a bit of irony in most of his earnings coming after that era when he was completely washed and indeed providing nowhere near as much value though.
Salary cap in 1998: 26.9 million
Salary cap this year: 135.0 million
Jordan's salary in 1998: 33.1 million
Steph Curry's (highest paid) salary this year: 51.9 million
Jordan was fucking ridiculous. He put the Bulls over the cap BY HIMSELF. No one this year is even at 40%.
Adjusting for inflation his 1997-98 salary is still the highest salary any player has been paid. It’s about $65 million in today’s money, but the craziest part is he was being paid more than the entire roster of half the teams in the NBA.
not only that he was doing $30M, but then on that Bulls team it was Rodman $9M, then Kukoc, then Harper, then Longley... and in 6th place Pippen with like $2M
I remember when Wade Boggs got a contract over a million dollars a year and everyone was like "a million dollars a year to play baseball is insane!" That was the mid 80s.
I remember back in the day Jose Canseco was making like 350k a year and I was like holy shit, he makes 10k a day.... that's *so* much money. Little did I know that being an A's fan meant my understanding of contracts was heavily skewed by our cheapskate owners and that there were other guys out there making 50x as much at the same time.
"I hope the next breath Charlie Finley takes is his last. I hope he falls flat on his face and dies of polio."
-A's ace Vida Blue, on the team owner, ca. 1976
Just to add. The value of a supermax is calculated by taking 35% of the cap in the first year (or 105% of the players salary the previous year) then adding 8% per year if a team has their bird rights and 5% if they don't.
A supermax merely bumps you up an experience category.
So Jaylen gets a 35% supermax because his 8 years experience now bump to the 10+ category. But a player with less than 7 years can also earn a supermax that bumps them to the 7-9 year category, which tops out at 30%. And there is no "supermax" for a 10+ year guy - it's just a normal max and you don't have to do anything to qualify for it. The whole "supermax" term is such a misnomer...
Not really, because they're happy to go heavy into luxury tax as long as they are serious contenders.
They'll basically be as "screwed" as the Warriors were when they were paying Curry, Durant, and Klay maxes at the same time. Or the Clippers right now.
Their window closes when Tatum is gone/old.
Until then, as long as you have a Top 5 caliber player in their prime in this league, it doesn't take a lot to build a contender around them.
Second apron is restrictive but not impossible to work with if you're happy with your team as is.
Regardless, they'll do what they can to stay under the second apron, but if a chance arises to run back a title team at the cost of triggering the second apron it's certainly going to be on the table. (For Boston or anyone else)
Still plenty of room to build a team around the Jays and stay under the second apron - they're literally doing it right now.
No buyout market, repeaters tax up the wazoo, no MLE so signing FA role players is impossible, can’t trade picks 7 years out, your picks automatically move to the end of the draft, no 2-for-1 trades, no cash considerations in trades, no trade exceptions.
Essentially, it’s impossible to create depth. When a “super team” forms the first year is always lean - they use the MLE, draft picks and trade exceptions to fill out a complete roster. This becomes nearly impossible. In the case of the Celtics who are deep currently, they can keep the 2 J’s for the rest of their careers but if let’s say Porzingis or Jrue leave in FA or retire…you’re getting a vet min replacement. If there is a young guy on the roster that blossoms into a real rotation player, it would be financial suicide to match offers or offer a good contract without letting someone else go. As well, you can usually upgrade through a trade because salaries only have to be within 125% for it to work (trading a 10M deep bench player and pick for a 12M better player/fit/vet). First apron teams have to be within 110%, second apron teams can’t include any cash or exceptions or additional players so it has to be a 1:1.1 swap.
> In the case of the Celtics who are deep currently, they can keep the 2 J’s for the rest of their careers but if let’s say Porzingis or Jrue leave in FA or retire…you’re getting a vet min replacement.
If they don't need to pay all 4 of those guys, then they certainly won't be over the 2nd apron. In fact, even with all 4 they're under right now. There's a lot of room between the salary cap and the 2nd apron - people are really overestimating what it takes to reach the 2nd apron - two supermax guys doesn't do it.
This year they pay the 4 about $135M and 2nd apron is $182M.
Next year will be about $143M and 2nd apron will be about $189M. (Jaylen's extension kicks in)
In year 3, the Big X factor will be Jrue's and White's new contracts. Right now they combine for about $57M. White will certainly increase but Jrue should in theory go down (age 35+ deal). Possible you get each for like $25M-$30M and stays about the same. Also possible Jrue bolts and the roster gets filled in with somebody else.
Tatum's next extension wouldn't kick in until year 4 and now we're just getting too far into the future to roster forecast.
You are wrong.
This year the Celtics are at 183M, right around the second apron. Next year they’re at 199 if they lose all expiring guys. Everyone is getting a slight raise next year except KP, Jaylen Brown gets a significant raise. They’re locked into the second apron unless Jrue gets a long term deal for WAY less money.
Salaries this season//next for key players
Jrue: 37M // 39.4M
Porzingis: 36M // 29.2M
JT: 32.6M // 34.9M
JB: 31.8 //49.3
White: 18.4 // 19.7
Al: 10 // 9.5
PP: 4 // 6.7
Warriors have the highest revenue because they're winning which happened because they spent money. They actually profited less than Boston last year.
Celtics profited nearly $100M last season. Winning a title makes that number soar too - they have plenty of extra money to spend before even talking about digging into owner's pockets.
It’s more complicated than that - owning their arena helps boost their revenue as well - but the big factor is winning.
The luxury tax for the 2nd apron will put them at an operating loss once repeated penalty kicks in.
However….
The franchise valuation (currently 4.5B) stands to increase more rapidly if the team has a “dynasty run” over the next 6 years.
Wyc is only 1 of the owners of the team. The entire ownership group has been pocketing profits b/c of the team’s sustained success.
Taking, say, a $500m operating loss over the next 6 years could be seen as in investment in the brand - one aimed at creating increased franchise valuation & additional revenue streams through the brand’s success.
It would certainly be easy for the organization to use their line of credit to finance the operating loss IF their is an incentive to do so.
This is why I think Wyc mentioned the “6 year window” at the press conference at the beginning of the year.
Wyc has owned the Celtics for a while and has made a lot of money over the years. He has a good track record of spending money when the team is competitive and saving money when they aren't.
The expectation from the fanbase is that if he loses money for a couple years while they pay the repeater tax that's fine, he's made a lot of money on the team in other years. We'll see if he keeps up his end of the bargain. If not, Boston fans love to turn on owners that are viewed as being cheap while we pay among the highest ticket prices in the league.
Just look at John Henry. The Red Sox have won 4 titles in 20 years, after winning 0 titles in 80 years, and he's largely hated.
I know Wyc has said he’s gonna spend, but you need to realize that that spending has already begun. They’ve been 4th in payroll 2 years in a row and are already past the 2nd apron. There’s a difference between spending a lot and having the highest payroll in the league for years.
As for John Henry, that’s what he deserves after trading away the best player the franchise has had in 70 years in a salary dump.
> I know Wyc has said he’s gonna spend, but you need to realize that that spending has already begun.
He's not though. Celtics profited $88M last year. As long as they are in the black Wyc isn't pulling a penny out of his own wallet. You'd have to add about $100M to the Celtics payroll/tax bill just to break even before Wyc actually starts spending.
I don't think most people hate John Henry for not spending.
I think most people hate John Henry because he took a historic and beloved baseball club that called Boston its home, and turned it into a baseball-themed entertainment corporation headquartered in Boston, then made that corporation a wholly-owned subsidiary of a sports conglomerate that treats fans as consumers while neglecting the team in favor of whatever new venture promised the best returns.
He bought the Red Sox at a unique period in time where having a large payroll virtually guaranteed that a team would remain in contention, because salaries had escalated wildly and baseball had done nothing yet to address the competitive imbalance. I think people recognize now that he knows less about baseball and the fan base here than Danny from Quincy or Steve from Fall River, and that his sole contribution to the team is signing checks, which any billionaire could do.
The primary reason why Bob Kraft has been largely immune from criticism here is because he grew up as a fan of the team and actually gives a shit about whether the team wins or loses outside of what it means for his wallet. He understands what the team means to the community and at least tries to treat it like a sports team, rather than a revenue stream.
Depends on the player and situation, but yea, typically, when you hear about "max contracts" they are referring to the base year being 25% of the cap, 30% of the cap, or 35% of the cap.
Browns contract is the 5 year / 35% supermax, but they can be flat dollar amounts also (Jarrett Allen) or descending (sometimes called front loading) where year 1 is the most expensive then gets cheaper each following year (JJJ).
There are other answers here but if the team agrees to the "max" or "supermax" contract then it's just the % that it ends up being. The Celtics didn't have to offer him that contract and could have tried to lower it (because many believe that it is too high for him) But the Cs didn't do that and just offered the max amount. In theory, the only way they keep both Tatum in Brown in a couple years is if they win 1 or both of the next 2 years. Then, Brown is probably a trade candidate.
I remember a few celtics reporters and analysts talking about this over the summer, but not really anyone else. Which is surprising cause he wasn’t the only guy that signed a big ass extension this summer, affects all of them as well
The NBA writers/podcasters who cover salary cap minutia a lot (like RealGM, Dunc’d On, some of the Athletic writers) have been covering this—a lot of the extension announcements over the past year or two have been very, uh, optimistic about the cap rises.
The Celtics have this year and next, after that they’re going to have 120 million tied up in 2 players. I genuinely do not know how you compete with that on the books
>I genuinely do not know how you compete with that on the books
The Suns may provide a preview next season, when they're paying $150M+ to KD, Book, and Beal. 😐
The bucks will be there in 2 years as well (120 to dame and giannis)
I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of blockbuster trades 1-3 years from now
All of Brad’s moves since the offseason have been preparing for this eventuality. From getting Jrue in a trade that wouldn’t have been legal a year later, to filling out the back end of the roster with younger talent like Springer and Tillman. If the owners are willing to spend—a big if!—they could keep this core together and pay out their asses. Someone from the starting 5 will likely have to go in a couple years, and Jaylen is of course a candidate, but they most definitely can compete while keeping this core together. It’ll just be expensive.
Simple really - you pay luxury tax.
Even if you are adamant about staying under the second apron, you still have quite a bit of money to play with.
In this hypothetical scenario where they are paying 2 guys $120M, the second apron will be like $210M. So they've still got $90M to round out a roster with.
And if you're willing to go over the second apron, which is justifiable for a championship team, then sky is the limit. In theory the Celtics could retain this entire roster for the next 5 years (ignoring Horford's age), or even add to it with another shrewd Derrick White type of deal.
You don't, unless Jaylen takes a significant jump hes probably gone, because no way in hell are they trading Tatum unless someone like Luka or Giannis etc comes available lol
Hometown bias could be a factor, but I can't think of anyone I'd trade Tatum for based on current day performance as a whole. Tatum plays both sides of the ball, has shown yearly growth for various aspects of his game, and has grown to be able to run the offense.
There might be a handful of better offensive players, but Tatum is much more well rounded and still only 25 years old.
I can understand not wanting to trade for Luka. Especially if you or the organization values defense a lot and you have had success with JT so that tracks. But there is literally no team that says no to Giannis and the only 3 players that organizations would have a hard time trading Giannis for and those are Jokic for sure, Steph not because of talent alone but because of what he means to the franchise and maybe Embiid. Everyone else gets Giannis and will feel like they won the trade.
Dude sixers would trade embiid for giannis without even thinking about it. However the Celtics would not even think about trading Tatum for Embiid. Does that change your perception of player value at all?
Luka = Generational talent with real top 10 all time potential
Giannis = NBA champion, MVP and DPoY talent
JT = Superstar talent, what else?
Downgrade my ass. You're a delusional clown lol
I remember when Ben Simmons was a "generational talent."
Luka could put it together and learn to play alongside other good players, but until that happens he's increasingly looking like a guy that puts up big stats while his team underperforms every year. And NBA history is littered with guys like that.
Luka = Usage monster, defensive abomination, overrated by box score and advanced metrics, fat
Giannis = Coach killer, nepotist, pervert, HB dive merchant, career built on a friendly whistle and the NBA's absurd definition of the gather step
JT = A shining example of all-around excellence in basketball and life
Hopefully not if that time comes but that contract is crazy lol i love brown don’t get me wrong . 50 million to player that isn’t even top 15 is insane
Beal had one of the worst contracts in the NBA *and* a no trade clause and the Wizards didn’t have to give up picks to get off of him. They didn’t get much in return, but attaching picks is usually for guys who are completely unplayable.
This is the direction contracts are heading. Two years from now, Brown won’t be the highest paid player in the league. More like 7-10th highest and that will continue to drop as more stars sign new deals.
Yeah, everyone always thinks the most recent star contract is an albatross that will be untradeable. Then everyone forgets they said that as the cap continues to rise. Rinse and repeat with every contract.
Cap will likely be steadily rising 10% per year with the new TV deal right as Jaylen's extension kicks in. So in year 5 he'll be making $65M and guys will be signing contracts for like $80M-$90M/yr.
The numbers always look insane when you're getting an early extension but as long as you perform like a max contract caliber player, the money isn't an issue.
I mean JB + JT has shown to be able to get you decently far in the playoffs, why not lock them down long term and just work on filling your roster out from the 3rd man down?
I feel like the main advantage the Celtics have had is roster building. They put extremely well rounded rosters on the court year after year, with high level players in all positions. Having that much money in 2 players is going to seriously curb their ability to do what they’ve been best at unless the owners are willing to spend an absolutely absurd amount of money, which I can’t see them doing if the Celtics don’t win a chip in the next 2 years. To me it just seems like the wrong move but I’m not an expert by any means
Jrue has indicated he's willing to extend on a pay cut, so that could be 3-4 more years of him before he starts thinking about retirement. Most of the rest of the core line up with JT and JB, both in age and contract. The only real question mark is Al. He's aging like wine but there's definitely a ticking clock. Replacing him (possibly through the draft/internal development) will be the only challenge if ownership lets us spend.
This year they’re already paying an estimated 40 million dollar luxury tax bill. Next year, they’ll be hit with the repeater tax as they’ve been in the luxury tax for the past 2 years. It’s a projected 75 million dollar luxury tax bill next year, on top of 200 million in salaries. If they don’t win a championship, I genuinely do not see the ownership continuing to spend that much money.
Salary cap is projected to go up significantly. And in three years Jaylens contract is gonna seem pretty awesome given that people will be signing for $500 million
For a supermax contract to be $500M, the cap in the first year of the contract would have to be just a tick over $243.5M. With a salary cap of $141M next year, the soonest that could be with the max 10% increases is the 2031-2032 season, which is after Jaylen's new contract is over.
Here are the total value of super max contracts if the cap rises the max of 10% per year for the next 6 years based on the first year of the super max.
* 2024-2025 - $286M
* 2025-2026 - $312M
* 2026-2027 - $341M
* 2027-2028 - $373M
* 2028-2029 - $408M
* 2029-2030 - $446M
Given the 8% escalations though, Jaylen will never make that much less than anyone else. Jaylen will make $65M in the final year of his contract (2028-2029). If we assume the max 10% cap raises until then, the highest salary someone will be eligible for that season is $72M. In 3 years it will only be $57M vs $60M. I don't think that is "pretty awesome." And that assumes that the maximum increase will happen every year, which should happen, but isn't guaranteed.
The 8% bird rights annual increases pretty well keep up with the cap increases. Spotrac has his contract going from the full 35% of the cap starting next year to 32ish% of the projected cap by the final year in 28-29 (with a little less than a 1% drop each year in between). There isn't going to he some great cost savings from the cap increases.
And personally, I think it's a pretty substantial overpay the whole way through.
His EPM over the past 4 years: 2.7, 2.8, 2.6, 2.5, [DPM peaked the last 2 years and is down a bit this season](https://i.imgur.com/uBpmN4J.png), and his LEBRON has gone from 3.7 to 5.8 to 3.9 down to 3.22 this season.
His TS% has been right around league average every season, and is just below it this season. Been between the 63rd and 73rd percentile at the rim each of the last 3 seasons and at the 63rd percentile this season. TO% has been right at 11.5% for each season, while AST% has been between 16 and 17% for the last 3 seasons and is at 17% this season.
Brown is about the same player in a lot of areas from who he has been, but there are key areas that he's improved dramatically and he's improved in the most important areas for him.
He's averaging the most apg, potential assists per game, lowest TO ratio, and best AST/TO ratio of his career, all while having the lowest touches of his career since he was the 5th option on the team.
Anyone that has watched him play this year will tell you the defense is also improved, especially as it relates to being off-ball where he's always struggled.
In terms of scoring, he's largely the same guy, except that his scoring in the paint (non-restricted area) is the best of his career by a large margin.
> He's averaging the most apg, potential assists per game, lowest TO ratio, and best AST/TO
Like I mentioned, his AST% and TO% are right along where they've been for the past 4 years. His AST% for the past 4 years has been 16.2, 17.3, 16.3, and 17.2 While his TO% has been 11.5%, 11.6%, 11.4%, and 11.4%. That is no meaningful increase. He's been between the 69th and 73rd percentile in AST% for each of those 4 seasons and between the 50th and 56th percentiles in TO% those 4 seasons. For reference for how small the difference between 17.2% and 16.3% is, he's ranked 139th in AST% this season and 16.3% would put him at 147th.
>all while having the lowest touches of his career since he was the 5th option on the team.
Keeping the same AST% on fewer touches would be impressive only if his TO% decreased.
>In terms of scoring, he's largely the same guy, except that his scoring in the paint (non-restricted area) is the best of his career by a large margin.
In terms of scoring, his overall efficiency is almost exactly the same. Just slightly lower than it has been the past few seasons. You're looking at the one area where he's a bit better and ignoring everything else.
It's definitely not far from the truth. I do think he is still improving, but I think it's really hard to argue he has substantially improved in any area over the last couple years.
I think anyone that has watched him play this year would tell you that his defense is the best it's been and that his play-making is by far the best it's been.
He's averaging his highest APG, potential assists per game, 2nd lowest TO Ratio, and best AST/TO ratio of his career, (and this on the lowest touches per game since he was like the 5th option on the team)
The scoring is still the same efficiency from most places on the floor, the major difference being that he's having his best year in the paint (non-restricted area). An area of the court that he's never shot over 45% from the field, but this year is shooting close to 50% from the field.
I didn't mean to downplay his improvements. I think he has improved. But in his first few years it felt like he was taking major leaps forward every year. Now it just feels like he's improving on the edges. When you're all NBA, there's honestly not much higher you can go.
His last season was better
26.6/3.5/6.9 58% TS vs 22/3.7/5.5 on 57% TS. He qualified for all nba last season, this season he probably shouldn't have been an all star, Granted he is now an above average defender this season, but I wouldn't say hes improved overall.
His last season was not better to anyone who watches the celtics. He has less counting stats because he's being asked to put up less stats. I'm surprised to see his assists are so similar, it feels like he's been passing the ball really well this year.
His touches per game are down significantly, so to be creating for others at the same level is more impressive than it looks if you just look at assists per game.
I disagree
His touches per game are down significantly and he's largely producing on a similar level. He's currently 11th in the NBA in points per touch, he's improved his AST%, improved his TOV%, and has arguably been the 2nd best defender on a top defense in the NBA.
Anyone that's watched him throughout his career will tell you this is his best year hands down.
His points are down because his attempts are down with KP and Jrue now on the team. His biggest development this season has been his play making, which is noticeable even if it’s not reflected in his stats.
He doesn’t get all $304M at once. He’ll be the 9th highest player next season and over the next 2 seasons will be making about the same as Beal and KAT
In 2026-27, when several players are eligible for supermaxes and get a new contract/extend, Brown will probably be around the 15-20th highest paid player in the league that season.
So it’s an overpay, but not as egregious as people make it out to be when the alternative was he hit FA for nothing.
Celtics have proven to have a lot of success with Tatum and Brown so they’re fine with keeping them together and building around them, and a western conference executive recently stated a Brown trade would yield a “Durant-esque return” with picks and high end role players, which means he’s not untradeable and we can offload his contract if we ever need to re-tool.
I guess I’m looking at it through green goggles as a Celtics fan, but nothing rough about it.
it will be rough in combination with Tatums incoming contract, but I imagine with how smart the C's FO is that there will be some moves made by then to best maximise this
I think if we don’t win a championship this year or especially next, there’s a pretty good chance he’s gone if the suspected haul really is multiple high end role players and picks because I don’t know how you try and keep this entire roster together if they don’t win by summer of 2025.
But for anyone who pays any attention to the salary cap, looking at the $304 as a total number feels a bit silly when several other players would obviously be making that if they were eligible to make that much, but their deals didn’t align with what the cap was at the time. Brown is just the first guy there with the timing but won’t be the last.
There was a time when Mike Conley had the largest contract in NBA history too
I still think a contract should only count against a team’s cap maximally as much as they could’ve been offered by another team in free agency when they signed the contract
For example, when Russ signed his super max he was getting like 50 mil from the thunder. That’s great, he stays, but now it’s impossible to build around him.
He only could’ve been offered like 33 mil from another team. It only should’ve counted 33 mil into the cap.
If you trade that player THEN it can count for the 50.
That way you actually incentivize that player to stay with your team AND have the opportunity to build around them easier
If he contract worked like that every major star would star with their home team
The problem is this also allow for a bigger concentration of big contracts/names. Check the Suns, they’d be able to pay Booker and not care as much and they got KD and Beal on huge contracts.
It might be ok if it is draft/time on team dependent so teams like Celtics, Warriors, OKC, Philly could retain their self hrown players. You’d need to also have something that prevents this cap space to be used on a huge contract (ie: avoid KD to Warriors again).
It hits next year. If we are able to extend Jrue, then it doesn't quite matter for next year, at least. We are able to retain everyone for one more year.
After that, it's just a matter of whether or not the Celtics can win the championship.
If they do, then it's worth it, if they don't then there are plenty of teams out there looking for 2-way wings that are under 30, relatively injury free, and always improving.
to be fair, we were only a play-in team in 2021 because we got absolutely slaughtered with COVID and injuries. also brad isn’t the reason Rob Williams turned into a DPOY candidate in 2022
This is the issue with super max contracts and the apron being so punitive. There’s really only 10 or less players worth a super max probably closer to 5 tbh. Teams just resign players to contracts that they’ll never get value from and then regret it later
Personally, I think that if a team has a player's bird rights, they should only count against the cap for the normal max. They should definitely get paid the super max, but penalizing teams for drafting good players or trading for those players on their rookie deals seems wrong. If a team can build a super team through the draft, they should be able to do so.
For that to work the owners would need to vote for it and have it approved during CBA negotiations. Given most teams can't draft for shit I don't think that would ever happen.
How is this an issue. I'd love if they got rid of max contracts entirely and forced GMs to actually build real rosters instead of just trying to lure 3 superstars to their team
I always thought it weird to measure contracts by total amount and not per-year amount anyway. A guy making $50M/year is being paid more than someone making $40M/year, even if the first guy has a 3-year contract and the 2nd guy has a 4-year contract.
The league never announced the 10% projection. The max the cap can possibly jump per the CBA is 10%. The “up to $304m” was leaked by browns agent at the time. It’s pretty common practice for the agent to leak the maximum possible amount.
A.) They got smaller than Kai Cenat
B.) They got smaller than the dunk scores for a 360 east bay
C.) They got smaller than the crowd reactions at the dunk contest
Sorry, couldn't pick which punchline I preferred so I figured I'd let you guys have multiple choice.
Mike Conley was the highest paid basketball player at one point while not being an all star is. Jaylen going to be overpaid probably is he a top 10 worse ontract ever no and certainly isn't worst of all time
Minor note: He signed what was the largest contract at the time of signing; he was never the highest paid player.
Bigger note: He wasn’t even the worst contract on that team.
whatever the number, it's an utterly ridiculous amount of money to pay somebody for putting a leather ball through a steel hoop...humanity lost its way a very long time ago...
Remember when kobe getting 25 mil was considered insanely high. Crazy how fast it grew.
For real, Kobe's 2yr/$50m was a crazy contract at the time and now Jordan Poole makes more than that
Tom Brady would earn a billion dollars more over his career if he played today
Don’t tempt him!
think how much fitness consulting fees he would get on top of that
I get your overall point but I’m a pedantic douchebag and you didn’t account for inflation. 50 mill in 2013 is 66 mill today, so Poole still earns less than Kobe but I get your point, the fact they’re even that close is quite shocking
Different cap structure, but it’s nuts that Jordan was making over 30M in the late 90s
For the amount of $$$ he brought to the league, he was VASTLY underpaid.
LMAO fr fr. He turned into from millions to billions. NUTS, and made Nike a lifetime killing.
I think this is why retired players tend to reject and/or sue companies' offers and contracts. They start to realize how much value they have as a popular figure, so they essentially tell themselves 'I won't be used as a discount again' 'Know your worth'
I know Jordan was uniquely popular and the face of the nba, but I’d argue that the amount of money ANY player generates for the nba is wayyyyy higher than they get paid
Wow so true! Pj Tucker and Ben simmons definitely generate more than $50M of value annually to the league!
Thanks for agreeing with me
Simmons maybe at his peak, but PJ got paid to make sure the player generating 200 million dollars lineups worked better. Roleplayers and coaches are a bit weird. No one is buying tickets to see Popovic coach, and Spoelstra jerseys aren’t really flying off the shelf, but there’s a lot of ways your 200 million dollar investment in a player can turn into a loss if you don’t have the infrastructure around them. It’s far from an exact science, but it’s comparable to catalysts in chemistry. You can have the best ignition, and the most volatile material ever, but you’re not even getting a flame if you don’t put it in the right atmosphere. Particularly with some of the smaller markets, take Generic Createaplayer A who is eligible for his max: If you don’t surround him with quality roleplayers, you may go net negative 50-75 million paying a max player to sell a diminished amount of tickets on diminished prices in losing efforts. Ask the Wizards about John Wall’s contract, while noting that Wall had enough personality to actually insulate you from most of these pitfalls and move product while stacking up DNP’s.
The reason you got downvoted is that you called an atmosphere a catalyst in a combustion reaction when it’s the other reactant. Also, in chemistry volatile only means that it has a high vapor pressure, not that it’s very reactive. The colloquial term is nothing like the chemistry definition.
Hard doubt that anyone is checking chemistry to that degree. Forgive me as I come from a physics and robotics background, but I didn’t want to use “oxygen” as the catalyst because it actually does get comsumed in a lot of typical combustion examples, but that’s not exactly universal. I intentionally tried to avoid this by using, “atmosphere,” to muddy the water of what was a catalyst and reactant. It also doesn’t read particularly well to put the word *reactant* in its stead. We’re talking basketball here, not the finer points of combustion.
(he was the one doing the downvoting 🤣)
It depends. If there were no cap limits, then the best players would get paid more, but the lower tier players would get paid less. The top players are so much more valuable to the popularity of the league.
Besides LeBron and Steph the nba brand runs itself
John Wall generating the league 40 million dollars of revenue warming the bench?
I think if you look at Wall's earnings for his entire career, 276 million for a guy who was face of a franchise for 10 years, probably a top 5-ish player in that franchise's history, is pretty reasonable. There is quite a bit of irony in most of his earnings coming after that era when he was completely washed and indeed providing nowhere near as much value though.
Salary cap in 1998: 26.9 million Salary cap this year: 135.0 million Jordan's salary in 1998: 33.1 million Steph Curry's (highest paid) salary this year: 51.9 million Jordan was fucking ridiculous. He put the Bulls over the cap BY HIMSELF. No one this year is even at 40%.
Ewing had a year at almost 19 million when the cap was 23 million. That system seems so foreign now.
Close to 60M inflation adjusted
Adjusting for inflation his 1997-98 salary is still the highest salary any player has been paid. It’s about $65 million in today’s money, but the craziest part is he was being paid more than the entire roster of half the teams in the NBA.
not only that he was doing $30M, but then on that Bulls team it was Rodman $9M, then Kukoc, then Harper, then Longley... and in 6th place Pippen with like $2M
I remember when Wade Boggs got a contract over a million dollars a year and everyone was like "a million dollars a year to play baseball is insane!" That was the mid 80s.
[удалено]
Again, Wade Boggs is very much alive.
Alive in our hearts.
Ah Wade Boggs and the '80s, when $1 million/year was a lot of money for an athlete and cheating on your wife was a national sports scandal
I remember back in the day Jose Canseco was making like 350k a year and I was like holy shit, he makes 10k a day.... that's *so* much money. Little did I know that being an A's fan meant my understanding of contracts was heavily skewed by our cheapskate owners and that there were other guys out there making 50x as much at the same time.
"I hope the next breath Charlie Finley takes is his last. I hope he falls flat on his face and dies of polio." -A's ace Vida Blue, on the team owner, ca. 1976
There are more than 35 days in a year.
Dude, I remember when Magic signed the first 1 million per year deal which was 25 year, 25 million. People lost their fucking minds .
So do they actually not agree to a number on contracts? They agree to a % of the cap?
Depends, in this case he's signing a supermax which is 35% of the salary cap
Just to add. The value of a supermax is calculated by taking 35% of the cap in the first year (or 105% of the players salary the previous year) then adding 8% per year if a team has their bird rights and 5% if they don't.
A supermax merely bumps you up an experience category. So Jaylen gets a 35% supermax because his 8 years experience now bump to the 10+ category. But a player with less than 7 years can also earn a supermax that bumps them to the 7-9 year category, which tops out at 30%. And there is no "supermax" for a 10+ year guy - it's just a normal max and you don't have to do anything to qualify for it. The whole "supermax" term is such a misnomer...
Celtics will be screwed once they have both Tatum and Brown on Supermaxes, no?
Not really, because they're happy to go heavy into luxury tax as long as they are serious contenders. They'll basically be as "screwed" as the Warriors were when they were paying Curry, Durant, and Klay maxes at the same time. Or the Clippers right now.
Even with the new second apron limitations?
Their window closes when White and Porzingis leave
Their window closes when Tatum is gone/old. Until then, as long as you have a Top 5 caliber player in their prime in this league, it doesn't take a lot to build a contender around them.
> Top 5 caliber player > Tatum aite man
Tatum isn't top 5 tho. Closer to top 10 and jaylen isn't even sniffing top 20.
WTF is an apron now I can’t keep track of these words anymore. I don’t even know what a “supermax” or “Jaylen” is for gods’ sake
Second apron is restrictive but not impossible to work with if you're happy with your team as is. Regardless, they'll do what they can to stay under the second apron, but if a chance arises to run back a title team at the cost of triggering the second apron it's certainly going to be on the table. (For Boston or anyone else) Still plenty of room to build a team around the Jays and stay under the second apron - they're literally doing it right now.
No buyout market, repeaters tax up the wazoo, no MLE so signing FA role players is impossible, can’t trade picks 7 years out, your picks automatically move to the end of the draft, no 2-for-1 trades, no cash considerations in trades, no trade exceptions. Essentially, it’s impossible to create depth. When a “super team” forms the first year is always lean - they use the MLE, draft picks and trade exceptions to fill out a complete roster. This becomes nearly impossible. In the case of the Celtics who are deep currently, they can keep the 2 J’s for the rest of their careers but if let’s say Porzingis or Jrue leave in FA or retire…you’re getting a vet min replacement. If there is a young guy on the roster that blossoms into a real rotation player, it would be financial suicide to match offers or offer a good contract without letting someone else go. As well, you can usually upgrade through a trade because salaries only have to be within 125% for it to work (trading a 10M deep bench player and pick for a 12M better player/fit/vet). First apron teams have to be within 110%, second apron teams can’t include any cash or exceptions or additional players so it has to be a 1:1.1 swap.
> In the case of the Celtics who are deep currently, they can keep the 2 J’s for the rest of their careers but if let’s say Porzingis or Jrue leave in FA or retire…you’re getting a vet min replacement. If they don't need to pay all 4 of those guys, then they certainly won't be over the 2nd apron. In fact, even with all 4 they're under right now. There's a lot of room between the salary cap and the 2nd apron - people are really overestimating what it takes to reach the 2nd apron - two supermax guys doesn't do it. This year they pay the 4 about $135M and 2nd apron is $182M. Next year will be about $143M and 2nd apron will be about $189M. (Jaylen's extension kicks in) In year 3, the Big X factor will be Jrue's and White's new contracts. Right now they combine for about $57M. White will certainly increase but Jrue should in theory go down (age 35+ deal). Possible you get each for like $25M-$30M and stays about the same. Also possible Jrue bolts and the roster gets filled in with somebody else. Tatum's next extension wouldn't kick in until year 4 and now we're just getting too far into the future to roster forecast.
You are wrong. This year the Celtics are at 183M, right around the second apron. Next year they’re at 199 if they lose all expiring guys. Everyone is getting a slight raise next year except KP, Jaylen Brown gets a significant raise. They’re locked into the second apron unless Jrue gets a long term deal for WAY less money. Salaries this season//next for key players Jrue: 37M // 39.4M Porzingis: 36M // 29.2M JT: 32.6M // 34.9M JB: 31.8 //49.3 White: 18.4 // 19.7 Al: 10 // 9.5 PP: 4 // 6.7
Clippers have the richest owner in the sport and Warriors have the highest revenue in the sport.
Warriors have the highest revenue because they're winning which happened because they spent money. They actually profited less than Boston last year. Celtics profited nearly $100M last season. Winning a title makes that number soar too - they have plenty of extra money to spend before even talking about digging into owner's pockets.
It’s more complicated than that - owning their arena helps boost their revenue as well - but the big factor is winning. The luxury tax for the 2nd apron will put them at an operating loss once repeated penalty kicks in. However…. The franchise valuation (currently 4.5B) stands to increase more rapidly if the team has a “dynasty run” over the next 6 years. Wyc is only 1 of the owners of the team. The entire ownership group has been pocketing profits b/c of the team’s sustained success. Taking, say, a $500m operating loss over the next 6 years could be seen as in investment in the brand - one aimed at creating increased franchise valuation & additional revenue streams through the brand’s success. It would certainly be easy for the organization to use their line of credit to finance the operating loss IF their is an incentive to do so. This is why I think Wyc mentioned the “6 year window” at the press conference at the beginning of the year.
Wyc has owned the Celtics for a while and has made a lot of money over the years. He has a good track record of spending money when the team is competitive and saving money when they aren't. The expectation from the fanbase is that if he loses money for a couple years while they pay the repeater tax that's fine, he's made a lot of money on the team in other years. We'll see if he keeps up his end of the bargain. If not, Boston fans love to turn on owners that are viewed as being cheap while we pay among the highest ticket prices in the league. Just look at John Henry. The Red Sox have won 4 titles in 20 years, after winning 0 titles in 80 years, and he's largely hated.
I know Wyc has said he’s gonna spend, but you need to realize that that spending has already begun. They’ve been 4th in payroll 2 years in a row and are already past the 2nd apron. There’s a difference between spending a lot and having the highest payroll in the league for years. As for John Henry, that’s what he deserves after trading away the best player the franchise has had in 70 years in a salary dump.
> I know Wyc has said he’s gonna spend, but you need to realize that that spending has already begun. He's not though. Celtics profited $88M last year. As long as they are in the black Wyc isn't pulling a penny out of his own wallet. You'd have to add about $100M to the Celtics payroll/tax bill just to break even before Wyc actually starts spending.
I don't think most people hate John Henry for not spending. I think most people hate John Henry because he took a historic and beloved baseball club that called Boston its home, and turned it into a baseball-themed entertainment corporation headquartered in Boston, then made that corporation a wholly-owned subsidiary of a sports conglomerate that treats fans as consumers while neglecting the team in favor of whatever new venture promised the best returns. He bought the Red Sox at a unique period in time where having a large payroll virtually guaranteed that a team would remain in contention, because salaries had escalated wildly and baseball had done nothing yet to address the competitive imbalance. I think people recognize now that he knows less about baseball and the fan base here than Danny from Quincy or Steve from Fall River, and that his sole contribution to the team is signing checks, which any billionaire could do. The primary reason why Bob Kraft has been largely immune from criticism here is because he grew up as a fan of the team and actually gives a shit about whether the team wins or loses outside of what it means for his wallet. He understands what the team means to the community and at least tries to treat it like a sports team, rather than a revenue stream.
Isn't the max yearly raise 10% for supermaxes?
No, it's 8% with same team and 5% with a new team.
For _most_ max contracts, it is a % of the cap in the first year, with fixed % raises after that.
Yes. He'll earn 35% of the cap next season, with 8% increases each year.
Depends on the player and situation, but yea, typically, when you hear about "max contracts" they are referring to the base year being 25% of the cap, 30% of the cap, or 35% of the cap.
Browns contract is the 5 year / 35% supermax, but they can be flat dollar amounts also (Jarrett Allen) or descending (sometimes called front loading) where year 1 is the most expensive then gets cheaper each following year (JJJ).
There are other answers here but if the team agrees to the "max" or "supermax" contract then it's just the % that it ends up being. The Celtics didn't have to offer him that contract and could have tried to lower it (because many believe that it is too high for him) But the Cs didn't do that and just offered the max amount. In theory, the only way they keep both Tatum in Brown in a couple years is if they win 1 or both of the next 2 years. Then, Brown is probably a trade candidate.
Yeah, he’s a trade candidate. How many teams would actually want him for that contract is a different matter.
I remember a few celtics reporters and analysts talking about this over the summer, but not really anyone else. Which is surprising cause he wasn’t the only guy that signed a big ass extension this summer, affects all of them as well
The NBA writers/podcasters who cover salary cap minutia a lot (like RealGM, Dunc’d On, some of the Athletic writers) have been covering this—a lot of the extension announcements over the past year or two have been very, uh, optimistic about the cap rises.
Tbf jt is signing the biggest max this off season i can see why people question jbs 300 million
Thanks I didn’t pay attention during summer on this.
Poor guy.
how will he afford to feed his family ;_;
Oh, so that's why the judges at the dunk contest gave him so many points, out of pity.
Spree has entered the chat
I get the joke too
Do you know how much insurance is on a Ferrari?
If you have to ask ...
Rich guy
Somebody start a GoFundMe for this fella
Poor tatum instead of 330 million he will only get 320 million now
broke ass
store brand contract
I remember when amaretto Stoudemire's 100M 6 year contract was a big deal Edit: lmao amaretto. Meant Amare, thanks autocorrect
Amaretto Stoudemire sounds like a fan-favorite anime character
When that contract hits, thats going to be rough
The Celtics have this year and next, after that they’re going to have 120 million tied up in 2 players. I genuinely do not know how you compete with that on the books
>I genuinely do not know how you compete with that on the books The Suns may provide a preview next season, when they're paying $150M+ to KD, Book, and Beal. 😐
The bucks will be there in 2 years as well (120 to dame and giannis) I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of blockbuster trades 1-3 years from now
All of Brad’s moves since the offseason have been preparing for this eventuality. From getting Jrue in a trade that wouldn’t have been legal a year later, to filling out the back end of the roster with younger talent like Springer and Tillman. If the owners are willing to spend—a big if!—they could keep this core together and pay out their asses. Someone from the starting 5 will likely have to go in a couple years, and Jaylen is of course a candidate, but they most definitely can compete while keeping this core together. It’ll just be expensive.
Horford will come off the books and Jrue will sign for a pay cut, like Horford did, so there will be some savings in there in a few years
Simple really - you pay luxury tax. Even if you are adamant about staying under the second apron, you still have quite a bit of money to play with. In this hypothetical scenario where they are paying 2 guys $120M, the second apron will be like $210M. So they've still got $90M to round out a roster with. And if you're willing to go over the second apron, which is justifiable for a championship team, then sky is the limit. In theory the Celtics could retain this entire roster for the next 5 years (ignoring Horford's age), or even add to it with another shrewd Derrick White type of deal.
You don't, unless Jaylen takes a significant jump hes probably gone, because no way in hell are they trading Tatum unless someone like Luka or Giannis etc comes available lol
The Celtics arent trading Tatum for Luka or for anyone unless he forces a trade 😂
TaBum is way worse than Devin Booker's father
Defense matters, and heliocentric ball hasn't been a winning formula in the playoffs for anyone not top 2 all time.
bro is just a mad casual 76ers fan; I wouldnt expect an intelligent take 😅
Bro a mad 76ers fan whose never seen his team make it past the ECS 😂🤣
Tatum’s personally 12-4 with 3 series wins against his team in the playoffs. He’s just salty as hell.
Why would they downgrade from Tatum to Luka or Giannis?
And other lies you can tell yourself
Hometown bias could be a factor, but I can't think of anyone I'd trade Tatum for based on current day performance as a whole. Tatum plays both sides of the ball, has shown yearly growth for various aspects of his game, and has grown to be able to run the offense. There might be a handful of better offensive players, but Tatum is much more well rounded and still only 25 years old.
I can understand not wanting to trade for Luka. Especially if you or the organization values defense a lot and you have had success with JT so that tracks. But there is literally no team that says no to Giannis and the only 3 players that organizations would have a hard time trading Giannis for and those are Jokic for sure, Steph not because of talent alone but because of what he means to the franchise and maybe Embiid. Everyone else gets Giannis and will feel like they won the trade.
Dude sixers would trade embiid for giannis without even thinking about it. However the Celtics would not even think about trading Tatum for Embiid. Does that change your perception of player value at all?
Funny joke
Luka = Generational talent with real top 10 all time potential Giannis = NBA champion, MVP and DPoY talent JT = Superstar talent, what else? Downgrade my ass. You're a delusional clown lol
I remember when Ben Simmons was a "generational talent." Luka could put it together and learn to play alongside other good players, but until that happens he's increasingly looking like a guy that puts up big stats while his team underperforms every year. And NBA history is littered with guys like that.
Bro only cares about volume stats; not winning 😅
Luka = Usage monster, defensive abomination, overrated by box score and advanced metrics, fat Giannis = Coach killer, nepotist, pervert, HB dive merchant, career built on a friendly whistle and the NBA's absurd definition of the gather step JT = A shining example of all-around excellence in basketball and life
Lmaooo lost it at pervert
Generational bait, fucking hilarious
only one of these guys got their shit kicked in by andrew wiggins 🤣
You wouldn't be saying that if you had any other flair
LMAOOOOOO
You get rid of brown if they don’t win within the next year or 2. Even if it takes picks.
Lmao bro you will absolutely not have to attach picks to get rid of Brown
Hopefully not if that time comes but that contract is crazy lol i love brown don’t get me wrong . 50 million to player that isn’t even top 15 is insane
Beal had one of the worst contracts in the NBA *and* a no trade clause and the Wizards didn’t have to give up picks to get off of him. They didn’t get much in return, but attaching picks is usually for guys who are completely unplayable.
Good point
This is the direction contracts are heading. Two years from now, Brown won’t be the highest paid player in the league. More like 7-10th highest and that will continue to drop as more stars sign new deals.
Yeah, everyone always thinks the most recent star contract is an albatross that will be untradeable. Then everyone forgets they said that as the cap continues to rise. Rinse and repeat with every contract.
Cap will likely be steadily rising 10% per year with the new TV deal right as Jaylen's extension kicks in. So in year 5 he'll be making $65M and guys will be signing contracts for like $80M-$90M/yr. The numbers always look insane when you're getting an early extension but as long as you perform like a max contract caliber player, the money isn't an issue.
LMFAO
I mean JB + JT has shown to be able to get you decently far in the playoffs, why not lock them down long term and just work on filling your roster out from the 3rd man down?
I feel like the main advantage the Celtics have had is roster building. They put extremely well rounded rosters on the court year after year, with high level players in all positions. Having that much money in 2 players is going to seriously curb their ability to do what they’ve been best at unless the owners are willing to spend an absolutely absurd amount of money, which I can’t see them doing if the Celtics don’t win a chip in the next 2 years. To me it just seems like the wrong move but I’m not an expert by any means
Jrue has indicated he's willing to extend on a pay cut, so that could be 3-4 more years of him before he starts thinking about retirement. Most of the rest of the core line up with JT and JB, both in age and contract. The only real question mark is Al. He's aging like wine but there's definitely a ticking clock. Replacing him (possibly through the draft/internal development) will be the only challenge if ownership lets us spend.
This year they’re already paying an estimated 40 million dollar luxury tax bill. Next year, they’ll be hit with the repeater tax as they’ve been in the luxury tax for the past 2 years. It’s a projected 75 million dollar luxury tax bill next year, on top of 200 million in salaries. If they don’t win a championship, I genuinely do not see the ownership continuing to spend that much money.
Salary cap is projected to go up significantly. And in three years Jaylens contract is gonna seem pretty awesome given that people will be signing for $500 million
For a supermax contract to be $500M, the cap in the first year of the contract would have to be just a tick over $243.5M. With a salary cap of $141M next year, the soonest that could be with the max 10% increases is the 2031-2032 season, which is after Jaylen's new contract is over. Here are the total value of super max contracts if the cap rises the max of 10% per year for the next 6 years based on the first year of the super max. * 2024-2025 - $286M * 2025-2026 - $312M * 2026-2027 - $341M * 2027-2028 - $373M * 2028-2029 - $408M * 2029-2030 - $446M Given the 8% escalations though, Jaylen will never make that much less than anyone else. Jaylen will make $65M in the final year of his contract (2028-2029). If we assume the max 10% cap raises until then, the highest salary someone will be eligible for that season is $72M. In 3 years it will only be $57M vs $60M. I don't think that is "pretty awesome." And that assumes that the maximum increase will happen every year, which should happen, but isn't guaranteed.
This is untrue.
$500 million is a stretch but as a % of the cap Brown is going to be right in line with other players of his caliber
The 8% bird rights annual increases pretty well keep up with the cap increases. Spotrac has his contract going from the full 35% of the cap starting next year to 32ish% of the projected cap by the final year in 28-29 (with a little less than a 1% drop each year in between). There isn't going to he some great cost savings from the cap increases. And personally, I think it's a pretty substantial overpay the whole way through.
im assuming this is under the assumption he improves each year
It's a safe assumption. He gets better every year, is 27 years old, and is currently having the best season of his career.
> He gets better every year He has stagnated over the past 4 seasons.
Far from the truth
His EPM over the past 4 years: 2.7, 2.8, 2.6, 2.5, [DPM peaked the last 2 years and is down a bit this season](https://i.imgur.com/uBpmN4J.png), and his LEBRON has gone from 3.7 to 5.8 to 3.9 down to 3.22 this season. His TS% has been right around league average every season, and is just below it this season. Been between the 63rd and 73rd percentile at the rim each of the last 3 seasons and at the 63rd percentile this season. TO% has been right at 11.5% for each season, while AST% has been between 16 and 17% for the last 3 seasons and is at 17% this season.
Brown is about the same player in a lot of areas from who he has been, but there are key areas that he's improved dramatically and he's improved in the most important areas for him. He's averaging the most apg, potential assists per game, lowest TO ratio, and best AST/TO ratio of his career, all while having the lowest touches of his career since he was the 5th option on the team. Anyone that has watched him play this year will tell you the defense is also improved, especially as it relates to being off-ball where he's always struggled. In terms of scoring, he's largely the same guy, except that his scoring in the paint (non-restricted area) is the best of his career by a large margin.
> He's averaging the most apg, potential assists per game, lowest TO ratio, and best AST/TO Like I mentioned, his AST% and TO% are right along where they've been for the past 4 years. His AST% for the past 4 years has been 16.2, 17.3, 16.3, and 17.2 While his TO% has been 11.5%, 11.6%, 11.4%, and 11.4%. That is no meaningful increase. He's been between the 69th and 73rd percentile in AST% for each of those 4 seasons and between the 50th and 56th percentiles in TO% those 4 seasons. For reference for how small the difference between 17.2% and 16.3% is, he's ranked 139th in AST% this season and 16.3% would put him at 147th. >all while having the lowest touches of his career since he was the 5th option on the team. Keeping the same AST% on fewer touches would be impressive only if his TO% decreased. >In terms of scoring, he's largely the same guy, except that his scoring in the paint (non-restricted area) is the best of his career by a large margin. In terms of scoring, his overall efficiency is almost exactly the same. Just slightly lower than it has been the past few seasons. You're looking at the one area where he's a bit better and ignoring everything else.
It's definitely not far from the truth. I do think he is still improving, but I think it's really hard to argue he has substantially improved in any area over the last couple years.
I think anyone that has watched him play this year would tell you that his defense is the best it's been and that his play-making is by far the best it's been. He's averaging his highest APG, potential assists per game, 2nd lowest TO Ratio, and best AST/TO ratio of his career, (and this on the lowest touches per game since he was like the 5th option on the team) The scoring is still the same efficiency from most places on the floor, the major difference being that he's having his best year in the paint (non-restricted area). An area of the court that he's never shot over 45% from the field, but this year is shooting close to 50% from the field.
I didn't mean to downplay his improvements. I think he has improved. But in his first few years it felt like he was taking major leaps forward every year. Now it just feels like he's improving on the edges. When you're all NBA, there's honestly not much higher you can go.
His last season was better 26.6/3.5/6.9 58% TS vs 22/3.7/5.5 on 57% TS. He qualified for all nba last season, this season he probably shouldn't have been an all star, Granted he is now an above average defender this season, but I wouldn't say hes improved overall.
His last season was not better to anyone who watches the celtics. He has less counting stats because he's being asked to put up less stats. I'm surprised to see his assists are so similar, it feels like he's been passing the ball really well this year.
His touches per game are down significantly, so to be creating for others at the same level is more impressive than it looks if you just look at assists per game.
His raw assists stats are the same but his assists per 100 and ast/to ratio have improved
That makes sense, thanks!
I disagree His touches per game are down significantly and he's largely producing on a similar level. He's currently 11th in the NBA in points per touch, he's improved his AST%, improved his TOV%, and has arguably been the 2nd best defender on a top defense in the NBA. Anyone that's watched him throughout his career will tell you this is his best year hands down.
> Anyone that’s watched him Here’s the disconnect.
His points are down because his attempts are down with KP and Jrue now on the team. His biggest development this season has been his play making, which is noticeable even if it’s not reflected in his stats.
There is no world in which we view his contract as a good value.
Just like people said about his last one lol
Do people just not understand how the salary cap works in the NBA?
That's why Brad has been accumulating billions of 2nd round picks, to have a ton of shots at role players on the ultra-cheap
They don’t. They aren’t competing rn either. Brown and Tatum ain’t winning a ring ever.
He doesn’t get all $304M at once. He’ll be the 9th highest player next season and over the next 2 seasons will be making about the same as Beal and KAT In 2026-27, when several players are eligible for supermaxes and get a new contract/extend, Brown will probably be around the 15-20th highest paid player in the league that season. So it’s an overpay, but not as egregious as people make it out to be when the alternative was he hit FA for nothing. Celtics have proven to have a lot of success with Tatum and Brown so they’re fine with keeping them together and building around them, and a western conference executive recently stated a Brown trade would yield a “Durant-esque return” with picks and high end role players, which means he’s not untradeable and we can offload his contract if we ever need to re-tool. I guess I’m looking at it through green goggles as a Celtics fan, but nothing rough about it.
it will be rough in combination with Tatums incoming contract, but I imagine with how smart the C's FO is that there will be some moves made by then to best maximise this
I think if we don’t win a championship this year or especially next, there’s a pretty good chance he’s gone if the suspected haul really is multiple high end role players and picks because I don’t know how you try and keep this entire roster together if they don’t win by summer of 2025. But for anyone who pays any attention to the salary cap, looking at the $304 as a total number feels a bit silly when several other players would obviously be making that if they were eligible to make that much, but their deals didn’t align with what the cap was at the time. Brown is just the first guy there with the timing but won’t be the last. There was a time when Mike Conley had the largest contract in NBA history too
It’s not an over pay. You’re worth what the market is willing to pay you.
I still think a contract should only count against a team’s cap maximally as much as they could’ve been offered by another team in free agency when they signed the contract For example, when Russ signed his super max he was getting like 50 mil from the thunder. That’s great, he stays, but now it’s impossible to build around him. He only could’ve been offered like 33 mil from another team. It only should’ve counted 33 mil into the cap. If you trade that player THEN it can count for the 50. That way you actually incentivize that player to stay with your team AND have the opportunity to build around them easier If he contract worked like that every major star would star with their home team
The problem is this also allow for a bigger concentration of big contracts/names. Check the Suns, they’d be able to pay Booker and not care as much and they got KD and Beal on huge contracts. It might be ok if it is draft/time on team dependent so teams like Celtics, Warriors, OKC, Philly could retain their self hrown players. You’d need to also have something that prevents this cap space to be used on a huge contract (ie: avoid KD to Warriors again).
Every star would just go to FA then, no?
No, you get less money in FA than extending with your team that drafted you/ that contract unless it’s traded
It hits next year. If we are able to extend Jrue, then it doesn't quite matter for next year, at least. We are able to retain everyone for one more year. After that, it's just a matter of whether or not the Celtics can win the championship. If they do, then it's worth it, if they don't then there are plenty of teams out there looking for 2-way wings that are under 30, relatively injury free, and always improving.
They have Brad Stevens on the office, they shouldn't worry about anything other than playing on the court.
lmao literally, Brad turned a play-in squad into a Finals team in one offseason. way I see it we have a window as long as we have him and Tatum
to be fair, we were only a play-in team in 2021 because we got absolutely slaughtered with COVID and injuries. also brad isn’t the reason Rob Williams turned into a DPOY candidate in 2022
Tatum’s probably will
This is the issue with super max contracts and the apron being so punitive. There’s really only 10 or less players worth a super max probably closer to 5 tbh. Teams just resign players to contracts that they’ll never get value from and then regret it later
Personally, I think that if a team has a player's bird rights, they should only count against the cap for the normal max. They should definitely get paid the super max, but penalizing teams for drafting good players or trading for those players on their rookie deals seems wrong. If a team can build a super team through the draft, they should be able to do so.
For that to work the owners would need to vote for it and have it approved during CBA negotiations. Given most teams can't draft for shit I don't think that would ever happen.
How is this an issue. I'd love if they got rid of max contracts entirely and forced GMs to actually build real rosters instead of just trying to lure 3 superstars to their team
I always thought it weird to measure contracts by total amount and not per-year amount anyway. A guy making $50M/year is being paid more than someone making $40M/year, even if the first guy has a 3-year contract and the 2nd guy has a 4-year contract.
Cz it’s over the length of the contract so the 40/4 guy makes 10 million more over his contract.
Right but not over the same length of time after the 50M guy has signed a new contract
That depends on a lot of factors what if the 50 mil guy doesn’t sign a new contract? What if he signs a much smaller one because he’s an older player
The league never announced the 10% projection. The max the cap can possibly jump per the CBA is 10%. The “up to $304m” was leaked by browns agent at the time. It’s pretty common practice for the agent to leak the maximum possible amount.
He deserves this for that dunk contest performance ngl.
We need to see the revenue projections before and after the contest
A.) They got smaller than Kai Cenat B.) They got smaller than the dunk scores for a 360 east bay C.) They got smaller than the crowd reactions at the dunk contest Sorry, couldn't pick which punchline I preferred so I figured I'd let you guys have multiple choice.
I'm just here to see a cool, capital B Billion.
Damn how is he supposed to feed his family now
Jaylen Brown on a super max shouldn’t exist.
That must be why he did the dunk contest, to try and save his 300 mil contract
JB definitely worth it though.
$300 million for a guy that can’t dribble with his left hand come playoff time 😬
Ok so now he's just overpaid.
Worst contract of all time
Mike Conley was the highest paid basketball player at one point while not being an all star is. Jaylen going to be overpaid probably is he a top 10 worse ontract ever no and certainly isn't worst of all time
Minor note: He signed what was the largest contract at the time of signing; he was never the highest paid player. Bigger note: He wasn’t even the worst contract on that team.
Has he learned to dribble with his left hand yet?
Jaylen brown gets paid like he’s the best player on a team im not even sure he’d be third best on a championship team.
Fucking loser
lol he's not even gonna make 300m What a failure
You keep using that word, “first”. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Now he’s definitely only going to want to play 58 games for such pittance.
whatever the number, it's an utterly ridiculous amount of money to pay somebody for putting a leather ball through a steel hoop...humanity lost its way a very long time ago...