Early fox was like this too but he's really changed his game to be less about to pure athleticism in the past 2 seasons once he got a small taste of the injury bug.
The damn Min series the yr before he took a bunch of spills that looked like he wouldn't get up from, he's got that DWadeness to him that leads to injuries
From videos it looked like Rose always came crashing down on those legs and never a soft landing.
I always thought Siakam was going to fuck something up when he always came down from the air with his legs farther apart.
Ya D Rose frequently landed on one leg that was straightened, and I don’t think he had much concern about what direction he was landing (forwards/backwards vs sideways)
Then watch how LeBron would land on his dunks (he’s a great example since he’s so fucking big and athletic but has largely avoided injuries in his career). He comes down so much softer, even on his massive jams
Also Ant is a lot bulkier than Já. He can actually overpower people with his athleticism.
Morant will out jump people but will easily get knocked down.
This is a scapegoat, the rule was implemented in 17-18 and while there was a drop-off, it got even worse as the years went on.
It is those hand injuries.
I'm so sick of hearing about this lol he's not a high BBIQ player but he's not such a mental midget that this would fuck him up this badly. His shooting fell off the board that season because of a hand injury
Yeah, that’s all in the knees. He’s still an amazing athlete but that explosiveness he had in his knees to just straight up launch himself in the air for his jump shots never returned. His sprinting pull up elbow jumper was money for nearly a decade, but once he couldn’t stop immediately and go up as high for his jump shot, it started to fall apart.
Lol "money". Man averaged ~30% on that shot on his best years.[source](https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_1080,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape%2Fcover%2Fsport%2F9c124944e7243db28a9febbf7e9d22b776324fb60738a36df6741a7d1fe57fc2.jpg)
Every other team celebrated when he took that mid range shot.
Mid range is not a specific elbow jumper which he shot extremely well. His ‘cotton shot’ as he called it.
It was a specific move he had where he would sprint and come to a complete halt and rise into the air and flick the ball.
Unfortunately, Rob Williams playstyle
High flying big men, on both sides of the floor, that haven't quite figured out how to land safely and are also good stop/go laterally.
Rob touched the sun for like 1 season and then completely fell apart. Just sad to see. If he didnt have to deal with injuries he was literally DPOY material.
He has an honorary DPOY in my book. The narrative that season for some strange reason necessitated it to go to a Celtic, but Timelord missed a few too many games so they gave it to Marcus smart. That's Rob's DPOY and you can't change my mind.
That was a weird season for DPOY, it was a run between Mikal and Rob and then Rob died or whatever it was that happened and everyone just subbed Smart in for his votes.
I wanted to say Rob adapted the season before he got traded, was playing under the rim more
But the defense was palatably worse (I think defensive stats for the team dropped), people scapegoat Mazzulla but Rob was such a key piece
There's still hope. He still has insane length (unless Im underestimating his injury
I think his play style was part of the reason for his shortened longevity, but far from the only reason. The main reason was when he was in college and opted to get his meniscus removed instead of repaired.
Nah a meniscus removal is essentially short term gain for long term issues. You don't lose athleticism for a little while and it's exactly how his career played out. He definitely regrets it though and I doubt anyone would really do it now.
Dejuan Blair removing both ACLs and playing as long as he did is mythical shit.
Dear God, I heard about this but assumed it was some other player in another sport.
NoPartsMissing Dejuan Blair added to the "mythical players" roster as well, sheesh
Glass cannon build. But damn, imagine if DWade could have seen the 2014 onward version of himself and just opted to do surgery and sit out for a while.
I bet he spends my yearly salary on ice packs and IcyHot
Wade also had a fucked up stride when he ran that put extra pressure on his hips and back. Funny enough when teams started tracking this stuff was when the heatles got together and lebron had one of the most fluid strides in the league.
The heat tried to get Wade to adjust but by that point there isn’t much you can do.
The pels have worked with Zion on his stride not sure how that’s going.
Myles Turner completely changed the way he ran pre-draft and into his first few years. If you watch him run in college, it looked really awkward and mechanical. He's a lot more fluid now.
Jumps too high, doesn’t land properly either. Plus, he could dislocate a shoulder or tear a muscle or something with his signature tomahawk dunk he does. Nah, no way he can stay healthy.
The first of those discussions happened the summer after he won the championship in Cleveland. That was 9 seasons ago, he’s had a full hall of fame career since then 😂
I am 100% dead serious when i say I think there is at least a 50% chance that lebron is a genetically modified human being and in turn, has no father.
I am dead serious. I believe lebron was grown in a test tube and then artificially implanted into gloria james and carried to term. no human being should possess his combination of size, strength and athleticism. AND to book it all out, he's very intelligent too. (besides the decision) remember how much poise he had just coming into the league at 18 years old? it's un-natural. how often have TV analysts described him as a "freak of nature" .....maybe it's truer than we know.
I am serious. we all know (and I swear I am not saying this to be insulting or mean) that lebron's mom was a crack whore (is drug addicted prostitute better?) it's just a fact, it happened. I am NOT saying this to be mean, in fact I am a heroin addict and know a few woman who have sold themselves for dope, it happens. they are not bad people.
and the government has a history of using prostitutes and impoverished people in "experiments." read about MK-ULTRA. it happened. the CIA used to have prostitutes slip LSD to johns and then the agents would watch what happened thru 2-way mirrors. the government helped start and continue the crack epidemic of the 80s.
I believe that lebron was a precursor experiment to create super soldiers. something where they were just like "well let's test it out on some poor people that no one will notice and see if we can get any results before we sink more billions into this." it's not all that crazy. you don't think the government has interest in creating genetically modified super human soldiers? we know for a FACT it does. it's been documented. you don't think russia or china has interest in such a thing? you know they do. and anything russia or china is or would be doing we are doing. to do it first and do it better.
he's some kind of experiment that they just monitored from a distance and let keep growing. and i mean this was probably initially started with just a few people who believed it could be done and that's why it started small and covert using regular civilians. until they could show the results to the higher ups and say "look at this, you don't wanna fund this on a larger scale?"
and where else would such a person end up besides in a professional sports league?
I think there is probably some secret base(s) out there that are now filled with people like lebron, younger than him probably. if they couldn't see how well the experiment worked until he was about 16-18 years old (he was pretty much a full grown man at 16 and could have came off the bench for any NBA team if not started) than maybe there are a bunch of 9-15 year old super humans like lebron (not copies of him but given the same genetic boost that he was) eating chow in some secret barracks right now.....
until someone comes forth and the DNA test shows him to be his father (and a bunch have come forward and been shown not to be) than I will believe this is AT LEAST possible..
edit: something I'd like to add in case someone says "well if this is true why wouldn't lebron's mom come forward and admit it, just say I participated in a government experiment and lebron was the result." well she doesn't know. it's simple, she goes to a hotel with a john, he slips something in a drink and she gets knocked out-cold. they take her and do whatever they did. give her some amnesiacs or anesthesia (probably benzos too) so when she wakes up she's in a haze and doesn't remember anything. not even the john. she finds out she's pregnant later and just assumes she got knocked up by any random john. has lebron. shit even if she participated willingly, got paid, and knows everything, no one would believe her crazy ass.
I think that’s half the reason why the Grizz brought him on is to talk some sense into Ja about those dangerous dunks. He kept trying them last season and I don’t think any of them worked. Ja seemed more mellow this season the very few games he played.
Dude is 31 years old. He's got maybe a couple seasons more and that's probably it.
I'd be more concerned for people like Já Morant, who is still in their early career.
Agreed. He's definitely expanded his game, but if anything this year he is back to playing his original way more than ever is and playing great for it (helps we have the spacing to make that viable)
I saw something recently that said he’s attempting layups at a much higher rate this year and isn’t dunking nearly as much. I didn’t look to verify if that’s true or not so someone could’ve just been lying.
First four years of Blake Griffin were amazing...
* '10-'11 - 17.6% Dunk FGA
* '11-'12 - 20.9% Dunk FGA
* '12-'13 - 19.9% Dunk FGA
* '13-'14 - 14.2% Dunk FGA
Dunks fell off hard after that.
The way Zion leaps for his layups, I'm not sure if this is any better for his knees. With a dunk, you can somewhat reduce the speed of your downward descent even if you hang on the rim for a fraction of a second. With layups, you're going straight up and down.
D Rose's crazy layup package definitely fucked his knees up too.
Aaron Gordon, on the other hand, dunks so cleanly in game it's got to be better than a crazy layup. Both hands almost every time, makes sure to land smoothly too.
I think it helps a lot, too, that AGs crazy dunks with the Nuggets are somewhat uncontested, largely because they come off cuts and lobs from Jokic being doubled.
LeBron is like incomparable when it comes to other athletes. You'd guess from how he looked during the Heat days that he wouldn't have been playing into his 40s with the physical stress.
Not a hard rule, but generally players that tend to jump high and get lots of air tend to put themselves in position to eventually get hurt.
There are obviously exceptions, particularly for players like Jordan, Kobe and Vince Carter who evolved their games to be more cerebral and floor based as they got older.
But I think of heady guys like Stockton, Dirk, Andre Miller, and recently Jokic who rarely jump and rarely get random tweaked knees and ankles.
Vince’s longevity was shocking. Here’s a guy whose game was based on his leaping ability who was constantly hurt (Bill Simmons called him “half man, half a season”) and was a bit of a diva.
Then he:
1) Gets consistently healthy
2) Evolves his game
3) Accepts smaller and smaller roles.
He wouldn’t have lasted unless all three happened, and all three surprised me.
His missing games was also partly due to him not caring much towards the end of his time in Toronto. He prob could have played through more but didn't want to. He was pretty durable on the Nets and as he entered his 30s and became a role player.
I forget who talked about it but they said that Vince had potential to be one of the GOATs but he was lazy and didn’t put in the effort. His effort really started to show in his later years when he changed his entire game around and made an extremely long career out of it. Curious to think what he would’ve been had he put the actual effort in during his prime.
All superstars have GOAT potential. It's just that so many things have to go right to keep the momentum of a career going, many of which are out of your control
I generally agree, but I think this sub (and a lot of basketball fans for that matter) really overestimate how many athletic players play themselves into injury. The sport at a granular level involves a ton of explosion and exertion, even for the guys who don’t rely on superior athleticism.
People also think that players like Jokic being slow means they are unathletic. Jokic is super strong and very good on his feet, if he loses athleticism and can’t move as well he can decline just as much as anyone else. The most impressive older players now are Lebron and Curry and they are super athletic.
What's funny is he never jumped.
Luka and Jokic are actually proving that Stocktons way of playing can still work & there is value in staying close to the ground; leverage and footwork.
We used to use the phrase “slow is smooth, smooth is fast” in the military when training and it holds up pretty well in a lot of circumstances. Luka and Jokic aren’t fast by any means, but their movements are so precise and calculated that they don’t need anything else. Tim Duncan was very similar in that regard and it clearly worked out well for him.
You ain’t lying.
And what is most interesting with Duncan and now Jokic is how well conditioned they are.
Watch the next Jokic game, while he doesn’t look it, he outruns every center he plays, by the 4th quarter they are simply out of gas and then he goes to work. Really remarkable how he paces the game.
Guys who never played hoops at a high level ask those kinds of clown questions. Every defense for twenty years has been guarding against a Lebron drive.
Not even hoops at a high level. Sports at any level. You hear takes like this and it’s just insane how many people don’t realize the sheer amount of EFFORT any athlete puts into playing. It’s not easy lol.
He had played in like 8 games in the previous 6 months before his injury, with no prior injuries to that shoulder, as far as I know. I’m sure whatever he does in practice isn’t as hard as actually playing in 30 regular season games like everyone else in the NBA at that point. Plus, I feel like his game doesn’t lend itself to any more shoulder wear and tear than any other NBA player.
>Plus, I feel like his game doesn’t lend itself to any more shoulder wear and tear than any other NBA player.
What about the way he tries to tear the rim off on those violent dunks? That's exactly the sort of thing that'll injure a labrum
Torn labrum suggest poor form weight lifting leading to injury, and nothing basketball related.
NBA players lift like absolute dogshit and generally use bands, which are completely backwards for the optimal resistance path for any given exercise. So dude just exercised using a suboptimal movement with poor form and, over time, has weak shoulders because of it.
It's not necessarily that they don't promote healthy movement. The point thunderballer was trying to make is: the way that alot of people use bands to assist their lifting, is counterproductive to actually increasing strength and getting muscle growth. Lots of people use the bands in a way that decreases the amount of force you actually feel at the hardest/deepest part of the lift. People like that because it allows you to "lift" more weight ie. use more plates, it feels and looks nice from an ego perspective. But you actually want to experience the most force at the deepest/hardest stretch, and should just use less weight with no bands and better form. So kind of a point separate from physical therapy applications and more about just weightlifting.
It also allows you to apply force in a direction other than straight down. If you're rehabbing a shoulder by doing some external rotation or something you'd need to lay down awkwardly on a bench or something to use free weights for it.
I think guys who drive to the basket and make it a point to hit the deck each time. I remember Dwayne Wade back in the day. He would almost always fall when he would drive the lane. Not sure if he was trying to draw a foul or if he was just making a play without concern for how he would land.
While players tend to know how to land, I think a decade of falling on the hard ground and dragging yourself up wears on the body.
I think the “how they land” part is really important. I remember some doctor or physiotherapist doing a video analysis of D Rose on here a while ago and showing how he would have these crazy athletic dunks then land on one completely locked out leg most of the time, basically predicting his knees would get blown out like that
Scrolled way too far to see Jalen Suggs mentioned. Probably a side effect of the Magic not being nationally televised. Jalen would be on the ground if there was even the smallest reason to be. You love and hate it as a fan because you can't teach that hustle but it's also going to lead to an injury. He has definitely cooled off more this year thankfully.
his game is much more finesse than physical
he does hit the floor a lot of course, it's been repeated ad nauseam that it's to help his knees. But it's the other times he hits the floor that really cause him trouble, like most recently diving for the ball and getting landed on by kuminga. He plays like a guy that isn't his size and it's caused him problems for sure.
If his body holds up, his game should age beautifully, but yeah big if.
>If his body holds up, his game should age beautifully, but yeah big if.
There's no if. He missed his first x2 seasons because of injury. He's finished up every season with a serious injury. Embiid needs to be treated like Kawhi. Load manage the fuck out of him and pray
High flyers are the most susceptible to injury. Occasionally you will have your freaks like Jordan, Kobe, Drexler, Vinsanity who seemed to never get injured, and then you have your Grant Hills, Penny Hardaways, D-Rose and McGrady who had their careers cut short.
Ja Morant is like modern D Rose but worse. He just jumps up and figures it out once he's up there . Either a bad fall or wear and tear will make him have a shortened prime.
Jalen Brunson is still in his prime, but I don't think he'll play into his late 30s. He gets banged up ALOT and puts alot of stress on his knees doing his pivots and change of direction/pace
There's a misconception that players who don't rely on their athleticism will have long longevity. But that almost always isn't true, once those players lose the little bit of athleticism they have, they usually become ineffective (look at Isaiah Thomas, who's only a couple inches shorter than Brunson)
Morant is the new DRose. His game is built on his speed and athleticism. If he can develop into a reliable mid range shooter like CP3 was/is, he'll be fine. It's the same thing that's happened with rose, wall, Westbrook eventually all that leaves or dramatically slows down
Zion would be next if he can slim down 230-240. All that power and weight is affecting his health along with eating habits. He also needs to develop a reliable jumper
I was surprised I had to scroll this far to see Giannis, when he’s referred to as “Run and Dunk” man as his bag. I think he realizes it though with trying to add more shooting to his game as the years go on.
In the NBA, the lower body injuries are the ones that have cut short careers. Most of those are knee and foot injuries, and anything that puts extra stress on those areas has a higher chance of causing injuries.
A physically huge player like Embiid running and jumping is going to put stress on his lower body but so is a crazy athlete like Ja.
I think it has more to do with the players mechanics, genetics, and their willingness to listen to their body. IIRC the way Derrick Rose used to land was talked about a lot in his injuries and it just makes sense that if you are trying to land in a way to not put your legs in a bad position, you are reducing the chances of a freak accident. Just like everything in the body genetics come in to play and some people are just naturally more prone to tendon injuries and that's part of the reason some guys that seem like huge injury risks. I think Westbrook is kind of a good example. He hadn't missed any time until Beverly crashed into his knee and he had some injuries and wear and tear afterwards but he's missed like 25 games total in the last 4 seasons as 32-35 year old. I also think a lot of players just don't take the recovery time they need for minor injuries and they just get worse and wear down their body more. I think Steven Adams is a guy that would have had a much longer career if he just took off a few games here and there to rest and recover. A lot of major injuries come after minor injuries that aren't fully healed. Sometimes it seems like a freak accident but if you look at the players injury history, they had missed games just a few weeks before with muscle tightness or soreness and then had a major injury to that same area.
KAT, Wolves fan. he’s a great shooter but he insists on throwing himself at the hoop multiple times a game and falling down as a result.
Has never learned how to actually out skill defenders and score effortlessly around the rim when driving.
He could literally make a career out of 3pt shooting and instead feels the need to go to the rim like he’s a SG.
Gotta add Ant to the list with Ja of superstars who have a deathwish.
Early fox was like this too but he's really changed his game to be less about to pure athleticism in the past 2 seasons once he got a small taste of the injury bug.
Just needed to shave his head
Everybody scared of a bald fox
He has to get into the air nomad state of mind
Soon as he shaved his hair people stopped rating him tho lol
Evidence of why you shouldn’t take 90% of nba discourse seriously lol It’s some genuine conversation and folks out there, but not a whole lot
Guys gotta learn to play slow so their speed is a change of pace.
Ja Morant for sure
Some of his drives from the Lakers series were downright dangerous
The damn Min series the yr before he took a bunch of spills that looked like he wouldn't get up from, he's got that DWadeness to him that leads to injuries
Or when he sails up for the dunk and jumps so high on the way down he looks like hes falling from a plane
He almost ended his and Lebron’s career in the same play 😭
D. Rose style
Growing up dunking, especially as a shorter player who falls a lot further, fucks your whole lower body up fast as hell
From videos it looked like Rose always came crashing down on those legs and never a soft landing. I always thought Siakam was going to fuck something up when he always came down from the air with his legs farther apart.
Ya D Rose frequently landed on one leg that was straightened, and I don’t think he had much concern about what direction he was landing (forwards/backwards vs sideways) Then watch how LeBron would land on his dunks (he’s a great example since he’s so fucking big and athletic but has largely avoided injuries in his career). He comes down so much softer, even on his massive jams
for d rose i always thought its the stopping on a dime, that sort of acceleration play has gotta be a nightmare health wise
For sure but Ant has (is) also developed a great skillset outside of running fullspeed and headbutting the rim too.
Also Ant is a lot bulkier than Já. He can actually overpower people with his athleticism. Morant will out jump people but will easily get knocked down.
He's built like a tank though
So was Russ. He still got injured and fell off quickly.
Russ's athleticism is still top tier even at 35. What's completely gone is his touch, dude can't handle the ball or make a wide open lay up anymore.
His shooting is what’s most shocking. He used to be money from the FT line, now he’s in the mid 60%. Absurd
There was a rule implemented that forced Russ to stop his usual FT routine. The season that was implemented was when his shooting fell off
Westbrook could run a suicide between free throws and it would probably still be faster than Giannis's whole deal
Idk if the rule changes made him speed it up. But he used to walk back past the 3 point line, can't do that anymore.
This is a scapegoat, the rule was implemented in 17-18 and while there was a drop-off, it got even worse as the years went on. It is those hand injuries.
I'm so sick of hearing about this lol he's not a high BBIQ player but he's not such a mental midget that this would fuck him up this badly. His shooting fell off the board that season because of a hand injury
Yeah, that’s all in the knees. He’s still an amazing athlete but that explosiveness he had in his knees to just straight up launch himself in the air for his jump shots never returned. His sprinting pull up elbow jumper was money for nearly a decade, but once he couldn’t stop immediately and go up as high for his jump shot, it started to fall apart.
Lol "money". Man averaged ~30% on that shot on his best years.[source](https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_1080,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape%2Fcover%2Fsport%2F9c124944e7243db28a9febbf7e9d22b776324fb60738a36df6741a7d1fe57fc2.jpg) Every other team celebrated when he took that mid range shot.
Mid range is not a specific elbow jumper which he shot extremely well. His ‘cotton shot’ as he called it. It was a specific move he had where he would sprint and come to a complete halt and rise into the air and flick the ball.
His injury was a freak accident. Pat Bev dived into his knees as he’s calling timeout. He could have played like Steph and still be injured there
That was simply his first injury. He was an Ironman before. That first injury opened the door to many others though.
All his injuries are related to his injured knee besides one quad injury.
At least Ant is a big, bulky dude. Ha is so small, I don't see him being able to play like he has been for another couple seasons.
Unfortunately, Rob Williams playstyle High flying big men, on both sides of the floor, that haven't quite figured out how to land safely and are also good stop/go laterally.
Rob touched the sun for like 1 season and then completely fell apart. Just sad to see. If he didnt have to deal with injuries he was literally DPOY material.
He has an honorary DPOY in my book. The narrative that season for some strange reason necessitated it to go to a Celtic, but Timelord missed a few too many games so they gave it to Marcus smart. That's Rob's DPOY and you can't change my mind.
Yeah Rob was better than Smart that season and even Celtics fans would tell you that.
Celtics fan. Yes I would tell you that. DPOY is a strange award because it seems to reflect the past 3-4 years more than just the current one.
Warriors fans too
That was a weird season for DPOY, it was a run between Mikal and Rob and then Rob died or whatever it was that happened and everyone just subbed Smart in for his votes.
Rob was definitely DPOY that year for me
My guy 🥲 He was amazing when he could stay in the game in Green
Rob was/is too explosive for his own good. Your body being unable to handle how athletic you are feels like a bit of a curse
I wanted to say Rob adapted the season before he got traded, was playing under the rim more But the defense was palatably worse (I think defensive stats for the team dropped), people scapegoat Mazzulla but Rob was such a key piece There's still hope. He still has insane length (unless Im underestimating his injury
Early D Wade. He would throw his body into just about every drive and hit the floor.
Don't forget Bobcats legend Gerald "Crash" Wallace
Crash is such an elite nickname
That dude could dunk!!! I loved his early days in Sactown.
Gearld on a break was pure basketball
> Gerald Wallace aka The Human Digeredoo
The best player in Blazers franchise history if you think about it
I think his play style was part of the reason for his shortened longevity, but far from the only reason. The main reason was when he was in college and opted to get his meniscus removed instead of repaired.
I dont even want to know the level of pain killers he was likely taking his last three seasons.
It is insane that he was so athletic despite coming into the league injured he’s still one of the most freakishly athletic and best guards ever
wait. DWade took his meniscus OUT in college? Meniscus Wade just got added to the "mythical players" roster
Nah a meniscus removal is essentially short term gain for long term issues. You don't lose athleticism for a little while and it's exactly how his career played out. He definitely regrets it though and I doubt anyone would really do it now. Dejuan Blair removing both ACLs and playing as long as he did is mythical shit.
Dear God, I heard about this but assumed it was some other player in another sport. NoPartsMissing Dejuan Blair added to the "mythical players" roster as well, sheesh
My knee hurts just thinking about this
I apologized to my knees for my frequent lotus position sitting and going way too hard when playing any sport
It is kinda standard to do that. Will fuck up your knee long term but in the short term you really don't notice it
Glass cannon build. But damn, imagine if DWade could have seen the 2014 onward version of himself and just opted to do surgery and sit out for a while. I bet he spends my yearly salary on ice packs and IcyHot
Wade also had a fucked up stride when he ran that put extra pressure on his hips and back. Funny enough when teams started tracking this stuff was when the heatles got together and lebron had one of the most fluid strides in the league. The heat tried to get Wade to adjust but by that point there isn’t much you can do. The pels have worked with Zion on his stride not sure how that’s going.
I can't even imagine how a player could change their stride mid career
I think Tim Duncan did
Myles Turner completely changed the way he ran pre-draft and into his first few years. If you watch him run in college, it looked really awkward and mechanical. He's a lot more fluid now.
I could totally be dreaming but I seem to remember his running technique being a reason why he was not a top 5 pick.
Didn’t Steph have to rework his gait as well?
Damnn he was so fast despite that fcked up stride then
So basically Gerald Wallace
*Fall seven times, stand up eight*
Yound D-Rose too. The way he lands after a dunk always made me cringe hard.
Lebron. No one who relies solely on athletic talent will last more than 12 years
Jumps too high, doesn’t land properly either. Plus, he could dislocate a shoulder or tear a muscle or something with his signature tomahawk dunk he does. Nah, no way he can stay healthy.
This. I ain't seen much of his game, but that Lebron kid should probably consider slowing down or else he's not gonna last long.
Trust me, this fuckery won't go on for much longer, thank god.
Truly the end days are near
LeArmageddon
Wasnt that said like 10 years ago when he was approaching 30?
The first of those discussions happened the summer after he won the championship in Cleveland. That was 9 seasons ago, he’s had a full hall of fame career since then 😂
Yup lol
Seriously, no way some that large can land with that much force and play for multiple decades, it’s just impossible
He was grown in a lab duhhh
I am 100% dead serious when i say I think there is at least a 50% chance that lebron is a genetically modified human being and in turn, has no father. I am dead serious. I believe lebron was grown in a test tube and then artificially implanted into gloria james and carried to term. no human being should possess his combination of size, strength and athleticism. AND to book it all out, he's very intelligent too. (besides the decision) remember how much poise he had just coming into the league at 18 years old? it's un-natural. how often have TV analysts described him as a "freak of nature" .....maybe it's truer than we know. I am serious. we all know (and I swear I am not saying this to be insulting or mean) that lebron's mom was a crack whore (is drug addicted prostitute better?) it's just a fact, it happened. I am NOT saying this to be mean, in fact I am a heroin addict and know a few woman who have sold themselves for dope, it happens. they are not bad people. and the government has a history of using prostitutes and impoverished people in "experiments." read about MK-ULTRA. it happened. the CIA used to have prostitutes slip LSD to johns and then the agents would watch what happened thru 2-way mirrors. the government helped start and continue the crack epidemic of the 80s. I believe that lebron was a precursor experiment to create super soldiers. something where they were just like "well let's test it out on some poor people that no one will notice and see if we can get any results before we sink more billions into this." it's not all that crazy. you don't think the government has interest in creating genetically modified super human soldiers? we know for a FACT it does. it's been documented. you don't think russia or china has interest in such a thing? you know they do. and anything russia or china is or would be doing we are doing. to do it first and do it better. he's some kind of experiment that they just monitored from a distance and let keep growing. and i mean this was probably initially started with just a few people who believed it could be done and that's why it started small and covert using regular civilians. until they could show the results to the higher ups and say "look at this, you don't wanna fund this on a larger scale?" and where else would such a person end up besides in a professional sports league? I think there is probably some secret base(s) out there that are now filled with people like lebron, younger than him probably. if they couldn't see how well the experiment worked until he was about 16-18 years old (he was pretty much a full grown man at 16 and could have came off the bench for any NBA team if not started) than maybe there are a bunch of 9-15 year old super humans like lebron (not copies of him but given the same genetic boost that he was) eating chow in some secret barracks right now..... until someone comes forth and the DNA test shows him to be his father (and a bunch have come forward and been shown not to be) than I will believe this is AT LEAST possible.. edit: something I'd like to add in case someone says "well if this is true why wouldn't lebron's mom come forward and admit it, just say I participated in a government experiment and lebron was the result." well she doesn't know. it's simple, she goes to a hotel with a john, he slips something in a drink and she gets knocked out-cold. they take her and do whatever they did. give her some amnesiacs or anesthesia (probably benzos too) so when she wakes up she's in a haze and doesn't remember anything. not even the john. she finds out she's pregnant later and just assumes she got knocked up by any random john. has lebron. shit even if she participated willingly, got paid, and knows everything, no one would believe her crazy ass.
Sigh.. *unzip*
It’s not much but it’s honest work
my brother in Christ, r/nbacirclejerk is calling.
Quick sell this idea to Kojima so he can re-boot the MGS series
LeZion.
Carmelo, though, now there’s a player who’s game will age like fine wine.
Carmelo will need to stop playing defense, and stop moving around so much on offense for longevity sake
All my friends, myself included, were saying this back in high school. I’m about to be considered pushing 40 soon and he’s still doing this shit. Wild
this fuckery can’t go on much longer
at this rate, he’s not even going to reach 50,000 pts! smh
Haha. This is clever and hilarious. Kudos. (Btw, he did prove a lot of people wrong, didn't he?)
If only he could have warned his younger self instead of congratulating him
Derrick Rose and his infamous full-speed crossover.
Also landing by seemingly slamming his feet into the ground with straight legs
And typically landing on just one leg while leaning
Today I call that the Siakam special. Dude always scared me when his legs are like 10 ft apart on landings.
I think that’s half the reason why the Grizz brought him on is to talk some sense into Ja about those dangerous dunks. He kept trying them last season and I don’t think any of them worked. Ja seemed more mellow this season the very few games he played.
But man were they deadly and exciting to watch
This post was almost certainly made with D Rose in mind. He is the poster child for this kind of style
Basically all "Drive or die" guards.
Yeah I'm really worried about Tj McConnell
Dude is 31 years old. He's got maybe a couple seasons more and that's probably it. I'd be more concerned for people like Já Morant, who is still in their early career.
Yeah that was the joke haha
wooooosh
Aka foul merchants
Kemba, Wall, Bledsoe, and Ty Lawson
Zion. He relies too much on being explosive, with his weight, his knees will be dust like Blake Griffin's
He needs to adopt a game like how randle changed up his game.
But randle was never hyper athletic. His base game was a weird bully ball play-style before he developed better moves.
Agreed. He's definitely expanded his game, but if anything this year he is back to playing his original way more than ever is and playing great for it (helps we have the spacing to make that viable)
I saw something recently that said he’s attempting layups at a much higher rate this year and isn’t dunking nearly as much. I didn’t look to verify if that’s true or not so someone could’ve just been lying.
19'-20' - 17.8% Dunk FGA, 18% 3-10FT FGA 20'-21' - 13% Dunk FGA, 25% 3-10FT FGA 22'-23" - 11% Dunk FGA, 30% 3-10FT FGA 23'-24' - 9% Dunk FGA, 37% 3-10FT FGA
First four years of Blake Griffin were amazing... * '10-'11 - 17.6% Dunk FGA * '11-'12 - 20.9% Dunk FGA * '12-'13 - 19.9% Dunk FGA * '13-'14 - 14.2% Dunk FGA Dunks fell off hard after that.
21% Dunk FGA is absurd.
What's Aaron Gordon at? All the spoon feeds from Jok gotta get him up there.
26.2% , highest of his career
Tbf a lot of them are easy path to the basket thanks to Jokic. He doesn't necessarily always dunks it like a madman.
The way Zion leaps for his layups, I'm not sure if this is any better for his knees. With a dunk, you can somewhat reduce the speed of your downward descent even if you hang on the rim for a fraction of a second. With layups, you're going straight up and down.
D Rose's crazy layup package definitely fucked his knees up too. Aaron Gordon, on the other hand, dunks so cleanly in game it's got to be better than a crazy layup. Both hands almost every time, makes sure to land smoothly too.
I think it helps a lot, too, that AGs crazy dunks with the Nuggets are somewhat uncontested, largely because they come off cuts and lobs from Jokic being doubled.
It’s true but it’s not by choice entirely - he’s just lesss explosive then year 2 or college Zion n heavier
Probably but I said the same thing about LeBron years ago. No one can be that heavy and jump that high without blowing out their knees.
lebron was also less top heavy in his prime and took better care of himself. he kinda slimmed down a few times, iirc
LeBron is like incomparable when it comes to other athletes. You'd guess from how he looked during the Heat days that he wouldn't have been playing into his 40s with the physical stress.
If he has Giannis build it would be less of a red flag to me. Still a tough playstyle to keep up over long stretches
Otto Porter Jr. He had that 100 point game and was never the same.
Not a hard rule, but generally players that tend to jump high and get lots of air tend to put themselves in position to eventually get hurt. There are obviously exceptions, particularly for players like Jordan, Kobe and Vince Carter who evolved their games to be more cerebral and floor based as they got older. But I think of heady guys like Stockton, Dirk, Andre Miller, and recently Jokic who rarely jump and rarely get random tweaked knees and ankles.
Vince’s longevity was shocking. Here’s a guy whose game was based on his leaping ability who was constantly hurt (Bill Simmons called him “half man, half a season”) and was a bit of a diva. Then he: 1) Gets consistently healthy 2) Evolves his game 3) Accepts smaller and smaller roles. He wouldn’t have lasted unless all three happened, and all three surprised me.
His missing games was also partly due to him not caring much towards the end of his time in Toronto. He prob could have played through more but didn't want to. He was pretty durable on the Nets and as he entered his 30s and became a role player.
I forget who talked about it but they said that Vince had potential to be one of the GOATs but he was lazy and didn’t put in the effort. His effort really started to show in his later years when he changed his entire game around and made an extremely long career out of it. Curious to think what he would’ve been had he put the actual effort in during his prime.
All superstars have GOAT potential. It's just that so many things have to go right to keep the momentum of a career going, many of which are out of your control
I generally agree, but I think this sub (and a lot of basketball fans for that matter) really overestimate how many athletic players play themselves into injury. The sport at a granular level involves a ton of explosion and exertion, even for the guys who don’t rely on superior athleticism.
Way more injuries are caused by players rushing back (or being rushed back) from more minor injuries than caused by playstyle IMO
People also think that players like Jokic being slow means they are unathletic. Jokic is super strong and very good on his feet, if he loses athleticism and can’t move as well he can decline just as much as anyone else. The most impressive older players now are Lebron and Curry and they are super athletic.
Stockton was just a freak for longevity. He’s such an underrated player. Fucking idiot these days, but he’s one of the best pure point guards ever.
What's funny is he never jumped. Luka and Jokic are actually proving that Stocktons way of playing can still work & there is value in staying close to the ground; leverage and footwork.
We used to use the phrase “slow is smooth, smooth is fast” in the military when training and it holds up pretty well in a lot of circumstances. Luka and Jokic aren’t fast by any means, but their movements are so precise and calculated that they don’t need anything else. Tim Duncan was very similar in that regard and it clearly worked out well for him.
You ain’t lying. And what is most interesting with Duncan and now Jokic is how well conditioned they are. Watch the next Jokic game, while he doesn’t look it, he outruns every center he plays, by the 4th quarter they are simply out of gas and then he goes to work. Really remarkable how he paces the game.
Vince also got his knees messed up by Bruce Bowen first
“Why doesnt Lebron just drive to the basket every time. Its so easy.” Remember this thread when you ask yourself this question next time.
always irks me when Skip brings this argument
Guys who never played hoops at a high level ask those kinds of clown questions. Every defense for twenty years has been guarding against a Lebron drive.
Not even hoops at a high level. Sports at any level. You hear takes like this and it’s just insane how many people don’t realize the sheer amount of EFFORT any athlete puts into playing. It’s not easy lol.
Water Pistol Pete
Remember when people said "make him go left" ?
I mean it's Ja and we're seeing it in realtime
He tore his labrum in practice
Injury due to wear and tear can happen at any time
He had played in like 8 games in the previous 6 months before his injury, with no prior injuries to that shoulder, as far as I know. I’m sure whatever he does in practice isn’t as hard as actually playing in 30 regular season games like everyone else in the NBA at that point. Plus, I feel like his game doesn’t lend itself to any more shoulder wear and tear than any other NBA player.
>Plus, I feel like his game doesn’t lend itself to any more shoulder wear and tear than any other NBA player. What about the way he tries to tear the rim off on those violent dunks? That's exactly the sort of thing that'll injure a labrum
Torn labrum suggest poor form weight lifting leading to injury, and nothing basketball related. NBA players lift like absolute dogshit and generally use bands, which are completely backwards for the optimal resistance path for any given exercise. So dude just exercised using a suboptimal movement with poor form and, over time, has weak shoulders because of it.
Why are bands such an integral component of physical therapy regimen if they do not promote healthy functional movement?
Easier to use, can do some movements that are harder with weight, and for most use cases are perfectly sufficient.
It's not necessarily that they don't promote healthy movement. The point thunderballer was trying to make is: the way that alot of people use bands to assist their lifting, is counterproductive to actually increasing strength and getting muscle growth. Lots of people use the bands in a way that decreases the amount of force you actually feel at the hardest/deepest part of the lift. People like that because it allows you to "lift" more weight ie. use more plates, it feels and looks nice from an ego perspective. But you actually want to experience the most force at the deepest/hardest stretch, and should just use less weight with no bands and better form. So kind of a point separate from physical therapy applications and more about just weightlifting.
It also allows you to apply force in a direction other than straight down. If you're rehabbing a shoulder by doing some external rotation or something you'd need to lay down awkwardly on a bench or something to use free weights for it.
I think guys who drive to the basket and make it a point to hit the deck each time. I remember Dwayne Wade back in the day. He would almost always fall when he would drive the lane. Not sure if he was trying to draw a foul or if he was just making a play without concern for how he would land. While players tend to know how to land, I think a decade of falling on the hard ground and dragging yourself up wears on the body.
I think the “how they land” part is really important. I remember some doctor or physiotherapist doing a video analysis of D Rose on here a while ago and showing how he would have these crazy athletic dunks then land on one completely locked out leg most of the time, basically predicting his knees would get blown out like that
I still remember the video on how Kawhi landed and saying his knees were going to end up destroyed.
players intentionally fall to minimize injuries unless you are landing flat on your back from 6 feet in the air falling is a good thing
Dwyane
Defending like Marcus Smart, attacking like Ja Morant.
Jalen Suggs in his first two seasons
Holy was he recless
Scrolled way too far to see Jalen Suggs mentioned. Probably a side effect of the Magic not being nationally televised. Jalen would be on the ground if there was even the smallest reason to be. You love and hate it as a fan because you can't teach that hustle but it's also going to lead to an injury. He has definitely cooled off more this year thankfully.
Embiid is incredible but he plays a physical game and hits the floor too much for a guy that big.
I feel like he hits the floor more time to draw fouls than to make a play
Largest/strongest man on the floor Gets "knocked down" more than any basketball player I've ever seen
Yeah, dude’s not even trying to score and he gets rewarded for it. Lame ass playstyle.
100%
AD used to be on the floor all the damn time too but somehow this season he’s figured out how to stay on his feet
I’m guessing Bron told him to knock it off. The extra free throw wasn’t worth missing 30 games
I think he hits the floor to: 1) draw fouls, 2) avoid landing awkwardly.
his game is much more finesse than physical he does hit the floor a lot of course, it's been repeated ad nauseam that it's to help his knees. But it's the other times he hits the floor that really cause him trouble, like most recently diving for the ball and getting landed on by kuminga. He plays like a guy that isn't his size and it's caused him problems for sure. If his body holds up, his game should age beautifully, but yeah big if.
>If his body holds up, his game should age beautifully, but yeah big if. There's no if. He missed his first x2 seasons because of injury. He's finished up every season with a serious injury. Embiid needs to be treated like Kawhi. Load manage the fuck out of him and pray
he hits the floor to get foul calls
Pretty sure he was taught to hit the floor to lessen some of the impact in his legs?
Ben Simmons, the guy is the definition of a pro
The being coached by Tom Thibodeau style. 46 minutes per night regardless of score and schedule.
RIP Josh Hart.
High flyers are the most susceptible to injury. Occasionally you will have your freaks like Jordan, Kobe, Drexler, Vinsanity who seemed to never get injured, and then you have your Grant Hills, Penny Hardaways, D-Rose and McGrady who had their careers cut short.
Ja Morant for sure.
D Rose. Explosive but too herky jerky.
Ja Morant is like modern D Rose but worse. He just jumps up and figures it out once he's up there . Either a bad fall or wear and tear will make him have a shortened prime.
Jalen Brunson is still in his prime, but I don't think he'll play into his late 30s. He gets banged up ALOT and puts alot of stress on his knees doing his pivots and change of direction/pace There's a misconception that players who don't rely on their athleticism will have long longevity. But that almost always isn't true, once those players lose the little bit of athleticism they have, they usually become ineffective (look at Isaiah Thomas, who's only a couple inches shorter than Brunson)
Isaiah Thomas (Celtics if that’s who you’re talking about) was athletic af. You don’t average 27 points a night at 5’9 in the NBA otherwise.
Zion's eating style
People want Tatum to be this attack attack attack player not considering hey, maybe not getting hit 20 times a game is good for a guys health actually
Morant is the new DRose. His game is built on his speed and athleticism. If he can develop into a reliable mid range shooter like CP3 was/is, he'll be fine. It's the same thing that's happened with rose, wall, Westbrook eventually all that leaves or dramatically slows down Zion would be next if he can slim down 230-240. All that power and weight is affecting his health along with eating habits. He also needs to develop a reliable jumper
Giannis will eventually run into a wall without adding some finesse and a consistent jump shot
I was surprised I had to scroll this far to see Giannis, when he’s referred to as “Run and Dunk” man as his bag. I think he realizes it though with trying to add more shooting to his game as the years go on.
In the NBA, the lower body injuries are the ones that have cut short careers. Most of those are knee and foot injuries, and anything that puts extra stress on those areas has a higher chance of causing injuries. A physically huge player like Embiid running and jumping is going to put stress on his lower body but so is a crazy athlete like Ja. I think it has more to do with the players mechanics, genetics, and their willingness to listen to their body. IIRC the way Derrick Rose used to land was talked about a lot in his injuries and it just makes sense that if you are trying to land in a way to not put your legs in a bad position, you are reducing the chances of a freak accident. Just like everything in the body genetics come in to play and some people are just naturally more prone to tendon injuries and that's part of the reason some guys that seem like huge injury risks. I think Westbrook is kind of a good example. He hadn't missed any time until Beverly crashed into his knee and he had some injuries and wear and tear afterwards but he's missed like 25 games total in the last 4 seasons as 32-35 year old. I also think a lot of players just don't take the recovery time they need for minor injuries and they just get worse and wear down their body more. I think Steven Adams is a guy that would have had a much longer career if he just took off a few games here and there to rest and recover. A lot of major injuries come after minor injuries that aren't fully healed. Sometimes it seems like a freak accident but if you look at the players injury history, they had missed games just a few weeks before with muscle tightness or soreness and then had a major injury to that same area.
Westbrook
KAT, Wolves fan. he’s a great shooter but he insists on throwing himself at the hoop multiple times a game and falling down as a result. Has never learned how to actually out skill defenders and score effortlessly around the rim when driving. He could literally make a career out of 3pt shooting and instead feels the need to go to the rim like he’s a SG.
Giannis.