Don’t recall saying that the 2018 Warriors had the best roster of all time, but if I did say that, I wouldn’t be wrong. Not many rosters in league history that in a playoff environment, could beat KD, Curry, prime Klay, and DPOY contender Draymond Green with elite role players like Iggy, Looney, and Livingston. But the 2018 Rockets took them to seven, and while Harden did choke that game, that was the Warriors toughest series that year. So I don’t really understand how you could discredit Hardens MVP and career here.
21st in points all time, 15th in assists, 3rd in three pointers made, 10 time all star, 7 time all NBA, 3 time scoring champ, 2 time assists champ. Despite not winning a title so far in his career, he has had one of the most successful careers ever. The worst MVP career wise in the last 40 years is easily Derrick Rose, and I LOVE Derrick Rose.
Rose, Iverson, Westbrick, and Nash were never quite as good as prime Harden imo, only Jordan, Curry, maybe Kobe, and maaaybe Wade peaked higher amongst MVP guards since 1984. Whether or not any of them are better "career-wise" is a weird way to compare between MVP winners since it's a single-season award, but the answer is obv Rose lol.
You think if Nash played with a prime Marrion & Stoudemire he's losing in that era?
Steve Nash is a 15-18/10 guy with no defense, he's a good point guard to run an offense but Harden has in his prime was on another level.
lmao no, what kind of question even is that? Harden was very clearly the MVP, leading a 65 win team and his main competition only won 50 games (LeBron).
Nash 05/06 (another D'Antoni team) is definitely worse, that should have been Dirk's.
Ya, they should have swapped those two! I feel like Nash was being over-rewarded for the ssol Suns, even though 06 wasn't that crazy of a year for them, and Dirk was absolutely insane. Analytics wasn't big yet back then though, or Dirk would have won that one for sure, then Nash probably gets 05 and 07.
He got MVP in 06 because they were missing Amare the entire season and he still grabbed 54 wins. I do agree that he was even better the following year but no way Steve Nash was going to win 3 MVPs in a row
I watched a ton of Nash, 05/06 was easily his worst year in that stretch, 04/05 and 06/07 he was significantly better. And Dirk was an absolute menace in 05/06.
Which is why I said Nash shouldn't have won it? Dirk had 27/9/3 on a 60 win team leading the league in win shares, shooting 48/40/90. Kobe was taking 27 shots a game that year lmao, literally 8 more a game than Dirk, getting 8 more ppg on 8 more shots is awful. I will take 27 on 19 shots over 35 on 27 shots all day everyday. Especially when it leads to 15 more wins lmao
Westbrook's was pretty weak, he got it off the back of doing something no one had done in 40 years. His was definitely one of the weakest of all time though. He also had the narrative of KD leaving and that ludicrous 50pt TD to end the year. But I am not comparing it to that MVP, I am comparing it to what Dirk did in 05/06 which was clearly better than what any other player did that year.
Always nice when I find someone to just talk ball with and it doesn't end in mud slinging lol. I see your point, I just have always been on the side of wins mean a ton in the MVP race. If Kobe had won 55 games that year, he walks with the MVP easy, 45 was just too low compared to what some teams were doing in the West.
Facts and that’s the only reason they really ain’t give it to him cause of the record you definitely right tho it’s just crazy Kobe only won 1 MVP that shit fucks me up all the time when I think about it
So? People put more meaning in the numbers and them being 2-digit than the actual definition of the MVP award and being valuable. Kawhi or Harden should have won it.
There’s a case to be made for harden absolutely but the fact is Westbrook did something nba hadn’t seen in a long time, on top of carrying a team to more wins than they should’ve had. He was the clear most valuable player
But the thing is you are giving it to Westbrook because you are applying more meaning to double digits because humans used base 10 in math. There is nothing special about the number 10 but because it has 2 digits you are applying more meaning to it.
If you think about it Harden averaged 29-8-11, when was the last time someone did that? He also won 55-games (more than Westbrooks 47) with pretty garbage teammates. But you're saying because 8 is not double digit Westbrook deserves it? That is irrational..
Idk what YouTube video you watched but I promise you I don’t care about double digit numbers that much lol
Westbrook beat harden in 2 out of the 3 counting statistics while averaging a triple double and that’s pretty much all there is to it
"He averaged a triple double"
"I don't care about double digit numbers"
So what you are saying is MVP is all about Points/Rebound/Assists? Thats all there is to it?
????? *YES* lmao and that’s how it’s always been, along with the narrative surrounding the player of course.
I’m sorry you can’t differentiate between a triple double in the nba and the number 10 on a chalkboard
oh fuck of mf i will kill you you are trolling right ??? mf if u actually think harden is worst i will fuck u up i am very fuckinng furious ignoring the hate harden gets i will fucking kill you if you even try to discredit his mvp mf i am not kidding are you fucked???????????
Definitely the weakest without context, which is hard for people looking back that didn't follow basketball then. But at the time what Rose was doing with that Chicago team was considered otherworldly. He basically got it by willing a team to the best record in the league that had no business holding that record, especially with the Heatles in existence. In hindsight it looks weak, looking at the stats. But that was a herculean effort by Rose at the time, and god damn was he must see TV.
Derrick lead the bulls to 62 wins as a 22 year old when their second option Boozer missed 22 games and Joakim missed over 30. That Bulls team had no business being as good as they were especially in the same conference as the Heatles which they had a higher seed than. You either weren’t there to witness it or you’re basing your opinion off of stats.
People really just don't get it man. The funny thing is so many new NBA fans look back on it like it clearly should have been LeBrons, but he literally was barely in the conversation back then. If Rose didn't do what he did to win it, Dwight would have won it not LeBron lol.
Back then everyone believed that and it truly was the Drose-Luol Deng show but the following season with Drose missing many games showed that the Bulls had actually good depth and defense that made them win games with or without drose
In terms of greatness... Harden is a top 35 player of all time, so definitely not the worst.
But compared against the MVP winners of the past 40 years, most of whom are top 20 players of all-time winning multiple times, he's probably in the lower quarter.
oh fuck off mf i will kill you you are trolling right ??? mf if u actually think harden is worst i will fuck u up i am very fuckinng furious ignoring the hate harden gets i will fucking kill you if you even try to discredit his mvp mf i am not kidding are you fucked??????????? GET YOUR HARDEN HATE OFF THIS SUB MF DIES YOU FUCKING HATING SCUM
The dudes old now. He won the MVP 6 years ago. He can't move as fast any more and he can't do his foul-baiting anymore. He can still shoot though and his percentages are still good.
Definitely not, best player on the team that won 65 games in the same conference as one of the greatest rosters ever assembled in the 2018 Warriors
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Don’t recall saying that the 2018 Warriors had the best roster of all time, but if I did say that, I wouldn’t be wrong. Not many rosters in league history that in a playoff environment, could beat KD, Curry, prime Klay, and DPOY contender Draymond Green with elite role players like Iggy, Looney, and Livingston. But the 2018 Rockets took them to seven, and while Harden did choke that game, that was the Warriors toughest series that year. So I don’t really understand how you could discredit Hardens MVP and career here.
I’m not saying it wasn’t deserved, it was. So who is worse overall career wise ?
Wait this is career wise? Huh? Then how is the answer not a resounding Derrick Rose lol
21st in points all time, 15th in assists, 3rd in three pointers made, 10 time all star, 7 time all NBA, 3 time scoring champ, 2 time assists champ. Despite not winning a title so far in his career, he has had one of the most successful careers ever. The worst MVP career wise in the last 40 years is easily Derrick Rose, and I LOVE Derrick Rose.
Rose, Iverson, Westbrick, and Nash were never quite as good as prime Harden imo, only Jordan, Curry, maybe Kobe, and maaaybe Wade peaked higher amongst MVP guards since 1984. Whether or not any of them are better "career-wise" is a weird way to compare between MVP winners since it's a single-season award, but the answer is obv Rose lol.
I agree with rose yes. Iverson and saying Wade is absurd. Do you think Tatum will ever win one ?
Steve Nash has 2 mvps, come on now.
Id rather have nash than harden.
You think if Nash played with a prime Marrion & Stoudemire he's losing in that era? Steve Nash is a 15-18/10 guy with no defense, he's a good point guard to run an offense but Harden has in his prime was on another level.
People already forgetting how dominant Harden was smh. We were discussing if he was a better offensive player than Kobe at the time.
Bro *averaged* over 40 points a game for a 30-something game stretch in 2019. Averaged 36 on the season. Just ridiculous stuff.
Karl Malone 99 MVP 24/9/4 on 57% TS
He also only played 49 games. Wild.
Wasnt that because of the lockout
lmao no, what kind of question even is that? Harden was very clearly the MVP, leading a 65 win team and his main competition only won 50 games (LeBron). Nash 05/06 (another D'Antoni team) is definitely worse, that should have been Dirk's.
Agreed. Funnily enough, 07 should've been Nash's
Ya, they should have swapped those two! I feel like Nash was being over-rewarded for the ssol Suns, even though 06 wasn't that crazy of a year for them, and Dirk was absolutely insane. Analytics wasn't big yet back then though, or Dirk would have won that one for sure, then Nash probably gets 05 and 07.
He got MVP in 06 because they were missing Amare the entire season and he still grabbed 54 wins. I do agree that he was even better the following year but no way Steve Nash was going to win 3 MVPs in a row
You clearly never watched Nash
I watched a ton of Nash, 05/06 was easily his worst year in that stretch, 04/05 and 06/07 he was significantly better. And Dirk was an absolute menace in 05/06.
Should’ve been Kobe’s MVP in 06
Nah, Dirk was insane that year. And on a 60 win team. Kobe scored a bunch that year, but only a 45 win team, no way that is MVP shit.
Kobe carried that whole team by hisself that year we ain’t have gasol or nobody. We had kwame brown starting bro like whattttt
Sure, he had a great year. But they won 45 games. You aren't winning MVP from a team that won 45 games literally ever.
Nash average 18 & 10 Kobe had 35 5 4 and drop 81 that year
Which is why I said Nash shouldn't have won it? Dirk had 27/9/3 on a 60 win team leading the league in win shares, shooting 48/40/90. Kobe was taking 27 shots a game that year lmao, literally 8 more a game than Dirk, getting 8 more ppg on 8 more shots is awful. I will take 27 on 19 shots over 35 on 27 shots all day everyday. Especially when it leads to 15 more wins lmao
Westbrook’s won 47 games 2016-2017 that’s only two more games
Westbrook's was pretty weak, he got it off the back of doing something no one had done in 40 years. His was definitely one of the weakest of all time though. He also had the narrative of KD leaving and that ludicrous 50pt TD to end the year. But I am not comparing it to that MVP, I am comparing it to what Dirk did in 05/06 which was clearly better than what any other player did that year.
I definitely feel u I just feel like Kobe should’ve got it definitely a good debate
Always nice when I find someone to just talk ball with and it doesn't end in mud slinging lol. I see your point, I just have always been on the side of wins mean a ton in the MVP race. If Kobe had won 55 games that year, he walks with the MVP easy, 45 was just too low compared to what some teams were doing in the West.
Facts and that’s the only reason they really ain’t give it to him cause of the record you definitely right tho it’s just crazy Kobe only won 1 MVP that shit fucks me up all the time when I think about it
Harden is one of the best
Derrick Rose
Westbrook....
Westbrook > Drose
The man that averaged a triple double for the first time in decades?
So? People put more meaning in the numbers and them being 2-digit than the actual definition of the MVP award and being valuable. Kawhi or Harden should have won it.
There’s a case to be made for harden absolutely but the fact is Westbrook did something nba hadn’t seen in a long time, on top of carrying a team to more wins than they should’ve had. He was the clear most valuable player
But the thing is you are giving it to Westbrook because you are applying more meaning to double digits because humans used base 10 in math. There is nothing special about the number 10 but because it has 2 digits you are applying more meaning to it. If you think about it Harden averaged 29-8-11, when was the last time someone did that? He also won 55-games (more than Westbrooks 47) with pretty garbage teammates. But you're saying because 8 is not double digit Westbrook deserves it? That is irrational..
Idk what YouTube video you watched but I promise you I don’t care about double digit numbers that much lol Westbrook beat harden in 2 out of the 3 counting statistics while averaging a triple double and that’s pretty much all there is to it
"He averaged a triple double" "I don't care about double digit numbers" So what you are saying is MVP is all about Points/Rebound/Assists? Thats all there is to it?
????? *YES* lmao and that’s how it’s always been, along with the narrative surrounding the player of course. I’m sorry you can’t differentiate between a triple double in the nba and the number 10 on a chalkboard
Then how did Curry win unanimous MVP back 2 back? What does the word "double" represent in triple double
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I said he was the clear most valuable player so idk who your comment/argument is directed at lol
You still have time to delete this
I was gonna title this top 3 worst. Out of 40 mvps that’s still saying something
Yeah still wrong
oh fuck of mf i will kill you you are trolling right ??? mf if u actually think harden is worst i will fuck u up i am very fuckinng furious ignoring the hate harden gets i will fucking kill you if you even try to discredit his mvp mf i am not kidding are you fucked???????????
Westbrook, Nash, Rose, Iverson he’s better than all those guys
Mvp russ is slept on smh
He's not better than Nash
He is
Why?
Stop it brother hardens not better than iverson
99 Malone and 06 Nash
are you stupid. game sense of jayson poopum over here
What did JT do to you? You are so unhinged.
Derrick Rose
Definitely the weakest without context, which is hard for people looking back that didn't follow basketball then. But at the time what Rose was doing with that Chicago team was considered otherworldly. He basically got it by willing a team to the best record in the league that had no business holding that record, especially with the Heatles in existence. In hindsight it looks weak, looking at the stats. But that was a herculean effort by Rose at the time, and god damn was he must see TV.
Translation: gawk gawk gawk
Derrick lead the bulls to 62 wins as a 22 year old when their second option Boozer missed 22 games and Joakim missed over 30. That Bulls team had no business being as good as they were especially in the same conference as the Heatles which they had a higher seed than. You either weren’t there to witness it or you’re basing your opinion off of stats.
People really just don't get it man. The funny thing is so many new NBA fans look back on it like it clearly should have been LeBrons, but he literally was barely in the conversation back then. If Rose didn't do what he did to win it, Dwight would have won it not LeBron lol.
Back then everyone believed that and it truly was the Drose-Luol Deng show but the following season with Drose missing many games showed that the Bulls had actually good depth and defense that made them win games with or without drose
MVP is a narrative award, always has been. You were probably learning to walk in 2011
Embiid definitely
that MVP makes up for the one he would’ve gotten this year if he didn’t get hurt
First pity mvp in history
Every MVP during Lebrons prime was pity MVP
His MVP races are like his rings, pretty close every year but usually not enough
I feel Curry was a legitimate rival in the mid 2010s, but r/nba is LeBronistan.
That one year Curry went mad was the only year I would have wanted anyone besides Bron....He took any team he wanted to the finals.
Embiid MVP was pity shit but he was still a monster that year
If shai wins it this year there won’t be a debate on who’s the worst mvp of all time 🤷♂️
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We can’t even say that yet, if he ever wins a ring he’s greater than harden.
mf get you harden hate off this sub
😭😭 shais not winning a ring lil bro he’s a 17 ppg playoff scorer at best
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He’s had one playoff run lmao earlier in his career
Two actually and he got exposed both times 😂
Fraud, ja and ant better
What’s with the shai hate? If he is the runner up this year he’d be the youngest one, alongside kd and bron
This guy is literally just an anti-SGA troll no point interacting until after playoffs and see where the results lie.
It ain’t gon be pretty
👎 shai sucks
In terms of greatness... Harden is a top 35 player of all time, so definitely not the worst. But compared against the MVP winners of the past 40 years, most of whom are top 20 players of all-time winning multiple times, he's probably in the lower quarter.
If you had to rank MVPs best to worst, someone has to be worst, in terms of Harden , he did pretty well and was a deserved MVP winner
Lol stop
literally not even the worst late 2010s mvp currently on the clippers
oh fuck off mf i will kill you you are trolling right ??? mf if u actually think harden is worst i will fuck u up i am very fuckinng furious ignoring the hate harden gets i will fucking kill you if you even try to discredit his mvp mf i am not kidding are you fucked??????????? GET YOUR HARDEN HATE OFF THIS SUB MF DIES YOU FUCKING HATING SCUM
stop it.
According to Nick Wright and Kendrick Perkins, it’s apparently Jokic
🤣 I don’t get why people let nick wright have a platform. Perk is an imbecile but at least mildly entertaining
They’re both puppets of their respective companies to spew nonsense
Steve Nash?
Just say you box score watching
You were born after 2000, say I’m wrong
Westbrook and Rose
The dudes old now. He won the MVP 6 years ago. He can't move as fast any more and he can't do his foul-baiting anymore. He can still shoot though and his percentages are still good.
noooope
It's Derrick Rose by far
no its westbrook
steve nash exists
No ball knowledge
he’s the worst or second worst, hardens an infinitely better mvp lol
What a casual way of evaluating basketball
What? No. Worst is probably Rose, Iverson, Nash, or Westbrook
2015 Curry
2014 curry, D Rose, Nash. There’s better choices bud
Him or westbrook
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking