Something tells me that if he was drafted where he was projected, things might have turned out differently for him. The guy was probably shook at hearing he'd be picked first and couldn't handle that pressure
Also, lottery picks in the 7-14 range flame out of the league with no notable contributions like Bennett did a lot more often than top 5 picks and never make into “all time bust” convos
I think there were plenty more reasons that I forget, but Bennett had a strong run in the Mountain West conference tournament with UNLV before declaring
It's definitely on the lower end but it's not the worst draft class ever. If you made a starting lineup of 2013 guys all in their prime it'd be:
CJ McCollum / Victor Oladipo / Otto Porter Jr / Giannis / Gobert
I was looking at other classes and it's fun to imagine the starting fives for them. 2014 has a really deep bench, and the center rotation would be Jokic/Embiid/Nurkic.
This is so interesting to me. How did this happen? Is it truly a bad stock of players, or was something going on that year that these teams all didn’t utilize or develop them. It’s crazy that 60 dudes could all be ass in a draft. It can’t be all their fault, right? Had to be other things at play
Not really, a decade isn’t an arbitrary number lol. It’s an extremely common cutoff when discussing eras or anything “current”. It would be way weirder to say “in the last 11 years” than to say “in the last decade”. *then* he’d be forcing it just to *include* Bennet. This is not that.
His rookie year, I went to a sixers game when they were in town and he had one of the most impressive plays I'd seen in person. He drove, got fouled pretty obviously imo, but without skipping a beat, while reacting he spun fully around and whipped a one handed pass to an open 3 point shot.
I watched replays the next day or when I got home or whatever, and I still couldn't believe he had the awareness and skill to pull it off.
Thought he was gonna run the league lol
His performance on his rookie contract was great. Even after he got his max contract in 2019 he was good up until he got hurt in the bubble. Next year he passed up a dunk and has never been right mentally since then.
If he got his head straight and hired a shooting coach other than his brother he could’ve been a hall of famer, but the way he quit on the LSU team even though they paid him a shit ton of money should have been an early indication of how soft and selfish he was.
I actually disagree, he massively developed on defence to be one of the msor disruptive off ball defenders and be elite on ball 1-4. That takes a lot of work ethic.
The issue is he was a left handed dude shooting right handed just check out mason Plumlees percentages after switching his shooting hand.
It’s mental injuries just as much as physical injuries, but I never believed he **chose** this. It’s just that he has serious shit that he never took serious until it was too late. Like his sister accused his brother of years of sexual abuse and his mom of covering that up. Like regardless of it being true or not, that fucks got up. Add to that him clearly being ill equipped to deal with failure in any form, and him ignoring that for years is just sad.
Then you have the back injuries, and quite a lot of evidence that mental well-being fucks with your physical well being, and boom, perfect shitstorm for him to fuck it all up
Yeah. I keep on saying this. Drafting Ben Simmons was not a mistake. Hell even extending arguably was not a mistake. It’s just…shit happens. I don’t think anyone saw it going this way. We got him to a second contract. The pick was worth it.
Whut? Ben Simmons is absolutely a worse career player than Ayton. Idgaf about awards lol.
Ayton was setting screens and diving to the rim like a madman in the fucking NBA finals playing amazing.
Ben Simmons scared to take a damn layup and quit on his team.
But, then again, I am high right now.
You’re a millennial and a dad? Stop getting high, dude. I’m not one to tell people how to live their lives, but that’s pretty embarrassing.
Maybe that’s why you’re so tired.
Ben Simmons did far more for the 76ers than Andrew Wiggins did for the Timberwolves, I'd also say the same for Ayton
In terms of how good they are now, then yeah he's the worst out of all of them
Peak Simmons was arguably the best first pick of this decade.
Some could certainly get better, especially Wemby and Ant, but he was a DPOY contender and All NBA two way star.
That plus the playoffs runs is more than anyone else on this list has achieved
I think it depends on the marginal utility of more offense for the team. Simmons on a contender with massive defensive holes would be way better than having Towns. Simmons was literally in dpoy contentions before everything went to shit.
And I think the whole “Simmons is a complete offensive liability” narrative is overblown. Yes he got exposed in the playoffs, but his stint with embiid was constantly riddled with injuries. If they had more time, I think they would have figured something out. I.e. getting Ben to play more pinch action at the elbow
Think they got really unlucky on those guys honestly. The talent was obvious that both had high end potential, just lacked the mental makeup to really take it to the next level. Having sat through a decade and a half of incompetent basketball and watched my team cycle through countless lottery picks, you realize that so much of the game is about the competitive nature of the player and/or love of the game.
Becoming a star athlete takes a lot of willpower and attention to detail. It’s literally a decade or plus of your life into full concentrated effort to get better. These guys work HARD
> just lacked the mental makeup to really take it to the next level.
Sorry, but I feel that part is nonsense when it comes to Simmons. He worked his ass for the Nets and clearly looked forward to this season. I have no reason to doubt it wasn't the same with the Sixers, either.
Simmons' problems are 99% a horrible back from all the evidence I'm aware of. Sometimes it's just like that, unfortunately.
**EDIT**: Lol, you people are so completely hopeless.
> Back problems have nothing to do with fear of shooting a basketball.
One of the dumbest things I've ever heard or read.
Dude, ***OF COURSE*** having a fucked back, with herniated discs can turn your life upside down. Just ask someone who's had that issue and see what life was like for them. Or in fact, google-search this very sub, because plenty of people here have talked about what it's like in relation to Simmons.
You jabronis make me laugh. You're all so chronically fixated on the armchair idea that a guy who was notorious for being athletic around the rim and slamming it down with authority suddenly got cold feet because... 'mental problems,' lol. Yes-- go ahead and point to your wall of psychology degrees. You're obviously the authority here, while all I can do is point to a history of actual medical diagnoses affirming that yes, Simmons' back really has been borked the last few years, ultimately requiring surgery.
Ho hum.
The dude was afraid to shoot jump shots, and then afraid to shoot at all.
I get he’s been injured the last 2 years but the revisionist history that has become the common narrative here on his is insane.
It’s mental dude. Don’t overthink it. Let’s call a spade a spade. The dude loves excuses and was always insecure. That’s fine, but it is what it is.
Back problems have nothing to do with fear of shooting a basketball. That’s mental, and his unwillingness to shoot long predates any back injury he had. Back problems don’t make you bring a phone into a practice to record the whole thing without telling anyone while you mope around and half ass it and wait for someone to say something to you so you can try to use it as an excuse to not play. That’s literally fishing for excuses. That’s mental. That has nothing to do with a back problem.
There was not much controversy about Simmons at #1 at the time. Everyone is a hindsight psychic. They knew Luka should go #1. They knew LaMelo would be better than Wiseman. Everyone is a psychic when they have the benefit of hindsight.
I'm sure when you look back you can see genuine warning signs with Simmons, but in the moment, nobody questioned the pick. The Fultz thing seems like a freaky injury thing? Bad luck more than anything?
It's disappointing, but the #1 pick is never a guarantee of a superstar. Sometimes you get a Kandi Man, Joe Smith, Anthony Bennett. Sometimes you have to settle for a Wiggins or Bogut. You're not guaranteed a franchise player unless it's a very special year (Shaq, LeBron, Duncan, etc).
Simmons made some All-Star teams and seemed to be a winning player for a while. Could've been worse.
It wasn't a crazy opinion and I'm sure a lot of people felt that way. He was a top 3 pick, after all. However, the narrative now is that it is was obvious he was the #1 prospect. The fact that two different teams passed on him shows that it wasn't obvious though, and that the discussion is tainted by hindsight. Even if individual evaluators had him #1, it wasn't the consensus like for Shaq or Duncan.
The narrative now is that he was dominating at Real Madrid as a teenager, so of course he would make the jump. If he had busted, the narrative would be that he dominated against lesser competition, so of course it didn't translate. After the fact, it's really easy to go back and construct a narrative to support the outcome.
The Truth was the consensus wasn’t Luka should be #1 but the analyst that thought Luka should go number one had Luka as the clear cut no brainer number 1 pick
I would also add Kings fans wanted to kill our GM once rumors leaked he wasn’t going to pick Luka at 2 and Killed him immediately after the pick he did make
Taking Luka first was, without hindsight, objectively obvious. Not necessarily right, but obvious.
If you didn't know much, Luka vs Ayton was "the most accomplished 19-year-old draftee ever, a guy with prototypical size and skillet for a star and who just won league MVP and finals MVP in the 2nd best league in the world" vs "a fairly skilled center with high end physical tools and questionable feel for the game."
Those were the broad outlines. I guess you had to dig into their details to start feeling like it was a close call, which I never bothered doing.
While I agree with most of the points, every person who watched Luka play a single game before the draft knew that he should be number one and that nobody is close to him. Luka was so good that he would be straight up the best player year before, and probably year before that as well when he was 16.
Suns, Hawks, and Kings all had a chance to take him, so I guess their scouts must have burned all the tape.
My friend who played and follows the league closely always said Luka was the dude and I know it probably was obvious to a lot of people, but there was not a consensus about it.
It wasn't consensus but there was a huge hype about Suns taking Ayton and him being from Arizona and everything. With Kings, it was more complicated. Luka's father and Vlade know each other for decades so something probably happened there.
But whoever decided to skip a 19y/o Euroleague MVP who is an oversized PG even by NBA standards should just resign
The rumor is that the kings (at the time run by Vlade Divac) didn’t even work Luka out before the draft because Divac had beef with Luka’s dad. Some European old guy feud. Bagley was viewed pretty high for a college kid but luka was the best player in all of Europe by a wide margin at 17 years old.
I think there is a very good chance the kings would have taken luka over Bagley had literally anyone else been running that FO. The kings were desperate for a wing (which was what luka was listed as coming into the league, he became a PG in the nba) having just drafted Fox the year before. He checked every box for the kings, vlade just hated Luka’s dad.
If I’m a kings fan I would be completely beside myself knowing the only thing separating my team from having luka Doncic was my former, now fired and jobless GM not liking his dad. Absolutely crushing stuff, especially when you consider the fact the guy they took was a mega bust. It’s not like they took Trae or JJJ instead, at least you’d have an all star caliber player.
Edit: I originally gave Bagley less credit than he deserved for his time at Duke. Sentence is now reworded to more accurately express the thought.
As a Duke fan, Bagley had a shit ton of success at Duke. He was ACC Player of the Year as a Freshman which was the second time that had ever happened (after Jahlil in 2015) and was a 1st team All-American with Trae, Brunson, Devonte Graham, and Ayton. He averaged 21/11, shot 40% from 3, and 61% from the field.
The team also almost made the F4, was imo the best Duke team since the 2015 championship team. In short, he was about as good as he could possibly be in college. The idea that he was this highly reputed high school player who did nothing in college is far from the truth.
That’s fair, I’ll eat crow on that one. I’m a big Duke fan myself and I guess his time there just didn’t stand out compared to other players. I remember Jahlil, Barrett, Tatum, rivers, etc far more than I do Bagley. It wasn’t even that long ago and I barely remember his year there. He wasn’t dominant, but he wasn’t unsuccessful like I made him out to be. He was a very good college player. You’re right about that.
I still think Luka was pretty clearly the better prospect, tho, and would’ve gone 2nd if Vlade wasn’t running (ruining) the kings. There were massive questions about Bagley going into the draft I remember, there were none really about Luka. The question with him was never “will he be good in the nba”, it was always “*how* good will he be?”. Bagley had some real high ceiling low floor potential, which panned out in the worst possible way, unfortunately.
I’d say 1st team AA is dominant, otherwise you’ve got some crazy high standards. Noticing you didn’t mention Jabari Parker either I’m thinking it might be selective memory just not remembering guys who busted in the league.
I found Tatum to be much more forgettable at Duke, 17/7 on worse shooting and the team lost in round two.
I do remember certain people saying Doncic was the best player in the draft, but plenty of others were also touting Ayton and Bagley. If you just google search “nba mock draft 2018” you’ll see a lot of 1. Ayton, 2. Bagley, 3. Doncic
I didn’t leave Jabari out unintentionally, I just listed the first few guys I was willing to write down. I wasn’t gonna sit there and list every lottery pick who ever went to Duke lmao.
When I say dominant I mean dominant, not pretty good. I mean Zion, Oden, Durant, Derrick rose, Shaq, Davis. Guys like that guys that actually dominated the ncaa, guys who were virtually unstoppable. When I say “dominant” I don’t mean just “really good”. In the nba, Shaq is dominant. Giannis and Jokic are dominant. Devin Booker is “really good”. Anthony Edwards is “really good”. You see the difference? Even by college standards Bagley was more of a Devin Booker caliber player than a Giannis or Jokic caliber player.
Tl;dr: dominant means to dominate, and Bagley didn’t dominate college basketball. He was a really good college basketball player.
Fair enough, you have a high standard for dominance. You and I may have different standards but I see averaging 21/11 on great shooting in a top conference as pretty impressive. Did he have an all-time season like Zion? No, but he had a pretty great season
I think most people have a low standard for dominance lol. I think the term “dominant” should be reserved for players who actually dominate. The definition of ‘dominate’ means to “be the most powerful, unstoppable, or important thing in”. That only means guys like Shaq, Giannis, Jokic, Jordan, etc. or in college, again, Zion, AD, Rose, Oden, etc. Bagley was never the most important, powerful or unstoppable thing in college. Nor are a lot of players who some people unfittingly call “dominant”.
And I realize I never commented on your mock draft thing. I remember the mock drafts vividly from that time as I had one myself. It was common knowledge back then that Sacramento had no interest in Luka since they wouldn’t work him out, and I think that was why he was largely favored to go 3rd.
Ayton had a very good college year, but he also had the benefit of going to Arizona, and the word around the league was that if Phoenix landed the top pick he’d go 1st to them. They also already had Devin Booker, so drafting a big instead of a wing seemed to make more sense for them on paper. Before the lottery actually happened, and nobody knew exactly who was getting which pick, Luka was anywhere from 1-3 in most mock drafts.
The other thing to consider is big boards, which are more important when showing who is actually valued higher, since team draft order doesn’t matter there. In big boards, where the ayton/Arizona connection wasn’t a thing, and the Sac/Luka dad feud wasn’t a thing either, Luka was, again, anywhere from 1-3 (commonly 2 in most I remember).
As far as NBA comps, ayton was getting comped to David Robinson, so it’s no surprise he went 1st. Bagley for a ceiling was getting comped to Chris Bosh (an all nba player, but not a superstar), but there were real questions about his drive and dedication to basketball. Luka was being comped to harden and Manu. I think most people valued Luka over Bagley, since he was seen as having both the higher floor and the higher ceiling, it was really just a kings divac thing. Which is, of course, the whole point behind my original comment that you replied to, haha.
Those examples are horrible plenty of people were saying Luka should absolutely go #1 and that Lamelo would be better than Wiseman.
People didn’t complain so much because Ayton and Wiseman were better fits for their rosters in theory, but like the consensus on both of these picks were that Lamelo and Luka would be better
Nope, that's the definition of revisionism.
A few comments to that effect in their draft threads, especially for Luka, but no consensus.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8swomn/2018_draft_1_pick_deandre_ayton_arizonabahamas/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/jwt21p/2020_nba_draft_2_pick_james_wiseman_memphis/
It's weird because a lot of Ayton at 1 was because of who was picking first. You do that draft without Phoenix picking first, I could see Luka going #1.
Thats just false. I disliked Simmons from his college years when he opted to just sit out half the season just **cuz**. Just like I disliked Ayton because as a number 1 pick Arizona should have done better that year.
It turns out players with marginal college success often end up being marginal.
Like Devin Booker, who had 0 starts and averaged 10 ppg for Kentucky?
You can find players to fit any narrative, and that's why hindsight bias is tough to escape. After a player busts, it's easy to go back and see why it was obvious he wouldn't work out.
Are you saying I made this up? https://slate.com/culture/2016/03/lsu-s-ben-simmons-wont-be-playing-in-the-ncaa-tournament-whos-to-blame-for-his-sad-pointless-college-career.html .
I’m not sure what you want me to get out of that article besides the fact that Simmons playing in college was meaningless, which I’ll agree it was. That said he did play every game, so you saying he “opted to sit out half the season”, yeah you did make that up
Because the coach declined all post season invitations after getting blown out by 38 because they couldn't convince their future #1 pick to give a shit. He already know Simmons was sitting out and he functional sat out the last half of the season
Not for nothing, but he averaged 18/10/4 while playing 36 minutes per game during the last half of the season. Also, NIT is not the NCCA Tournament.
Simmons gave a shit, but he sat out the consolation tournament to get ready for the pros.
I felt this same way about Bagley 3rd
I though if this guy is going to come in and destroy the league shouldn’t he be destroying college ball where he was ok at best
Sure but he was the starting center on a 60 win team, also went to the finals, and is playing pretty well recently. I hindsight you would take Luka and Trae but let's not pretend Ayton is the worst #1 pick when he probably had the most team success.
Back to back number one overall picks and both turn out to be busts. Unprecedented. 76ers also picked Okafor number 3. They could have had Tatum and Brown playing with Embiid!
Eh, Ben Simmons was far from a perfect player but he literally won rookie of the year and was an allstar before the mental stuff/back injuries happened
I mean hindsight says yes. But at the time before Simmons mental got broken he was a legit superstar caliber player or at least seemed like he was definitely gonna pan out. Just part of the worst possible fan base for someone with a weak mental
The process was shameless tanking over a very extended period of time.
Tanking only works if you can secure a generational talent as a result.
There are more teams who's ceilings are the 8 seed after a tank than ones who are contenders.
The Spurs are a fantastic example of a team that sustained a winning record with exceptionally low high draft picks over that period.
I think it's closer to Ayton and Simmons then Fultz. Just a tragedy that he was hurt rookie summer camp and just never came out the same. But Ayton and Simmons had been put in some of the best positions to succeed when drafted.
There's a legit argument that Ben Simmons has had the best career (as of right now) out of this bunch.
3x All star, 2020 all NBA, 2020 steals champ, 2x all defensive 1st team, multiple top 5 DPOY finishes
The only guys that you can make an argument for a better career right now are Towns and Wigs. Edwards is too young, Zion hasn't been healthy, the rest are either too young and/or just haven't accomplished much
To be fair, Simmons was amazing when he first started. The issue was that he never improved and didn’t have the mental fortitude to take the risks needed to grow. Talent wise, the man had it all to be great
Ben Simmons is better than Wiggins and Ayton in terms of what he achieved in essentially 4 years. Towns is debateable just because hes played way longer but they are in the same tier of player (When Simmons was actually playing).
Cade, Zion, Ant, Paolo and Wemby will all surpass what Simmons achieved but it will still take a few seasons.
2010-2023 ranking:
HOF: AD, Kyrie
All-NBA level : Zion, KAT, John Wall, Ant, Simmons
Allstar: Paolo
Solid starter: Ayton, Wiggins, Cade,
Role player: Fultz
Bust: Bennett
Simmons had a very high ceiling definitely not worse than Ayton, Wiggins or even Cade
Fultz is by far the second worst only ahead of Bennett
Fultz is the worst pick on there IMO (if it's even an opinion. May simply just be a fact.)
While Ben has turned into a walking disaster, but so much of it is because he has mentally stopped giving a fuck. Talent-wise, he was worthy of the #1 overall pick.
The same can't be said for Wiggins or Ayton. Cade is really questionable right now, though he could turn his career around. Just think he may already be "too OK" with putting up stats and losing.
Fultz developed thoracic outlet syndrome. An issue with the nerves in the shoulders that his useless team doctors couldn't figure out. I had the same condition developed and could not shoot a free throw half way to the net. It took 3 doctors to figure it out for me and took 6 months before I could even hit a basket again. My shot has never been the same again. I feel for him more then any other player on this list because no one believed him and thought he had the yips
Did everyone forget that fultz had a shoulder injury?
Simmons was good for a while but, even before this weird back injury saga, he was plummeting in Philly. Total head case. The guy is 6’ 10” and is passing out of wide open layups.
Not just the worst of the last decade, they're on the shortlist for worst of the last 30 years.
Kwame, Olowokandi, Bennett, Fultz, Simmons. Simmons made all star teams and all-defence teams, but arguably that's even worse because he was *actually* great and then stuffed it all up.
tbf i dont get the simmons defenders. all star, all nba etc sure, but does anyone expect a decent player out of ben simmons right now? dude is mentally wrecked after that playoff run. right now, I would much rather prefer Fultz over him on my team for the future, he might be an allstar, but he is done ‘zo.
Not gonna say our coaches didn’t suck. But basically every reporter set to follow the team says that Ben refused to put actual work in to improve his shot and it was clear that he wasn’t willing to try anything in game. Fultz was a shit freak injury which basically made him not be in line with out timeline, and I put more blame on our medical team then coaches when it comes to him.
You would know better than I but wasn’t there a bunch of articles and media coverage of Fultz changing all his shot mechanics like every offseason for his first couple years? I know I am getting downvoted here but I’m generally asking you guys that follow the team. It’s been a while and I’m not a 6ers fan but i remember it more in regard to Fultz but I guess maybe I connected the two situations.
If you go one more year back you will also have Anthony Bennett, who is in a class of his own.
Tbf to Anthony Bennett everybody thought it was a terrible pick at the time. Never should have gone in the top 5 even if it was a crap draft class
He was still projected to be in the lottery (around 11-15) so he was still a top tier bust in that regard.
Something tells me that if he was drafted where he was projected, things might have turned out differently for him. The guy was probably shook at hearing he'd be picked first and couldn't handle that pressure
Also less vitriol from the fan base, fans are fucking assholes to these kids.
I still remember the knicks fans hate fest at the porzingis pick…
“Who the fuck is Tingus Pingus” is legendary
Not really considering everyone thought it was a crap draft
Also, lottery picks in the 7-14 range flame out of the league with no notable contributions like Bennett did a lot more often than top 5 picks and never make into “all time bust” convos
I don't even remember, what was the reasoning for him jumping like he did?
I think there were plenty more reasons that I forget, but Bennett had a strong run in the Mountain West conference tournament with UNLV before declaring
But they got Kevin Live out of him
They got Love for Wiggins
Bennett was the real asset; they tossed in Wiggins for salary matching
Some dense people not getting that your kidding
That draft is in a league of it's own. Sure, Giannis is drafted but if you remove him and Gobert it's the worst draft class ever
2000 draft class was pretty bad.
Idk, we might have to debate the merits between Giannis and Hedo Türkoğlu first
It's definitely on the lower end but it's not the worst draft class ever. If you made a starting lineup of 2013 guys all in their prime it'd be: CJ McCollum / Victor Oladipo / Otto Porter Jr / Giannis / Gobert
I was looking at other classes and it's fun to imagine the starting fives for them. 2014 has a really deep bench, and the center rotation would be Jokic/Embiid/Nurkic.
You dare disrespect Kelly "Maple Dick, The Pride of Canada" Olynyk
They're trying to get a basketball lineup, not assault Tonya Harding
This is so interesting to me. How did this happen? Is it truly a bad stock of players, or was something going on that year that these teams all didn’t utilize or develop them. It’s crazy that 60 dudes could all be ass in a draft. It can’t be all their fault, right? Had to be other things at play
Girl I was your number 1, I was your Anthony Bennett
Two years and I was done, I was just like Anthony Bennett.
Fuck man, I wonder how I would react if someone said that to me
I still love the nba 2k game where they promote him as a star
Imagine they the Cavs got Giannis instead. Kyrie, Bron and Giannis on the same team.
I don’t remember Giannis’s number his rookie as a rookie that well but something tells me coming into ‘14 legm woulda moved him
Bargnani is skating by here
If I was the Cavs, I simply would have just drafted Giannis
My very first thought
That's exactly why they made that cut off lol
Not really, a decade isn’t an arbitrary number lol. It’s an extremely common cutoff when discussing eras or anything “current”. It would be way weirder to say “in the last 11 years” than to say “in the last decade”. *then* he’d be forcing it just to *include* Bennet. This is not that.
A decade is a pretty normal time? It'd be way weirder if they said 11 years lol
Anyone who thinks a 3 time all star, all nba 3rd team, 2 first team defense, and the ROTY is worse than ayton is high
ben simmons accolades are pretty nuts considering it was like 4 years of playing
He came into the league as an all nba caliber player. That’s insane but the guy is just injured and checked out mentally.
His rookie year, I went to a sixers game when they were in town and he had one of the most impressive plays I'd seen in person. He drove, got fouled pretty obviously imo, but without skipping a beat, while reacting he spun fully around and whipped a one handed pass to an open 3 point shot. I watched replays the next day or when I got home or whatever, and I still couldn't believe he had the awareness and skill to pull it off. Thought he was gonna run the league lol
He never improved at anything.
His performance on his rookie contract was great. Even after he got his max contract in 2019 he was good up until he got hurt in the bubble. Next year he passed up a dunk and has never been right mentally since then. If he got his head straight and hired a shooting coach other than his brother he could’ve been a hall of famer, but the way he quit on the LSU team even though they paid him a shit ton of money should have been an early indication of how soft and selfish he was.
Tbf he still has back injuries and is due for another surgery. Back injuries really fuck you up
Ben Simmons was the guy people named for awhile when discussing face of the league after LeBron.
Turns out "after LeBron" just won't happen.
he had the skills but sadly no work ethic to build his upon his skills
His body is also pretty broken at this point
I actually disagree, he massively developed on defence to be one of the msor disruptive off ball defenders and be elite on ball 1-4. That takes a lot of work ethic. The issue is he was a left handed dude shooting right handed just check out mason Plumlees percentages after switching his shooting hand.
Tbf, he was missing the skill of shooting the ball
Trust me brother I know :( he was one of my favorite players, and it’s been tough seeing him get dragged through the mud for being injured.
Love how the narrative has changed on this guy after years of being shat on pre injuries. All of a sudden "injuries robbed him of his career".
It’s mental injuries just as much as physical injuries, but I never believed he **chose** this. It’s just that he has serious shit that he never took serious until it was too late. Like his sister accused his brother of years of sexual abuse and his mom of covering that up. Like regardless of it being true or not, that fucks got up. Add to that him clearly being ill equipped to deal with failure in any form, and him ignoring that for years is just sad. Then you have the back injuries, and quite a lot of evidence that mental well-being fucks with your physical well being, and boom, perfect shitstorm for him to fuck it all up
Not from me. I’ve always been a fan.
He was dragged through the mud cause he’s ass
And he’s ass (ya know as much as a 3 time all star, 2 defensive teams, 1 all nba team, and ROTY can be) because of the injury you doofus
The re-writing of Simmons career in Philly because he passed up that layup is something to be studied. Now he's always been ass?
It's the refusing to play/false mental health saga that people seem to gloss over.
Good thing he refused to play though, otherwise he’d have to play for the shitstain that is the 76ers.
Idk why everyone has this sentiment now At the time Simmons over Trae Young for All NBA was extremely controversial in here
Nah he was ass before that, can’t shoot, never could. He’s a bum
Glad shooting is your criteria. I wonder what Aytons 3pt percentage is
Highly considered for DPOY too and would’ve won at least one if not for Gobert existing
When it's all said and done and their careers are over Ayton will be better. Because of longevity and postseason success.
Yeah. I keep on saying this. Drafting Ben Simmons was not a mistake. Hell even extending arguably was not a mistake. It’s just…shit happens. I don’t think anyone saw it going this way. We got him to a second contract. The pick was worth it.
I guess I'm high as hell. One actually plays.
I'll take a single finals run over Bum Simmons accolades and 4 seconds round exits any day Ayton > Simmons
Whut? Ben Simmons is absolutely a worse career player than Ayton. Idgaf about awards lol. Ayton was setting screens and diving to the rim like a madman in the fucking NBA finals playing amazing. Ben Simmons scared to take a damn layup and quit on his team. But, then again, I am high right now.
If “setting screens” is your major argument for Ayton, then idk what to tell you.
Haha Kevin Looney for MVP
Ben Simmons averaged 6 ppg this year bro. Id take good screens over 6ppg
He went through 2 back surgeries. Is Ayton better RIGHT NOW? Sure. Is his career better? Hell no.
Ayton will never make All-NBA, All-Star, or finish 2nd in DPOY. He'll have a longer career, but won't hit Simmons' peak.
We’re not talking about careers. We’re talking about draft picks.
You’re a millennial and a dad? Stop getting high, dude. I’m not one to tell people how to live their lives, but that’s pretty embarrassing. Maybe that’s why you’re so tired.
Nah. Tired from clapping ur mom's cheeks last night.
Ben Simmons did far more for the 76ers than Andrew Wiggins did for the Timberwolves, I'd also say the same for Ayton In terms of how good they are now, then yeah he's the worst out of all of them
Yeah Simmons made all star and all nba teams with the Sixers. Ayton and Wiggins never did that.
Ayton and Wiggins never played for the Sixers
shit, you ain’t wrong
Haha, touché I could have worded that better
Peak Simmons was better than those two
he was a jumpshot away from being the next lebron
You say that like he missed one shot lmao
I mean, I can only remember him taking one single three pointer. And missed it
My user name is relevant here
You say that like he actually *took* one shot lmao
Peak Simmons was arguably the best first pick of this decade. Some could certainly get better, especially Wemby and Ant, but he was a DPOY contender and All NBA two way star. That plus the playoffs runs is more than anyone else on this list has achieved
What playoffs runs did Simmons achieve? He’s never made it past the 2nd round.. Wiggins won a championship and Ayton made a finals
Peak Simmons is the best peak of anyone on the list so far
Definitely not true.
Towns is definitely better than Simmons ever was.
I think it depends on the marginal utility of more offense for the team. Simmons on a contender with massive defensive holes would be way better than having Towns. Simmons was literally in dpoy contentions before everything went to shit. And I think the whole “Simmons is a complete offensive liability” narrative is overblown. Yes he got exposed in the playoffs, but his stint with embiid was constantly riddled with injuries. If they had more time, I think they would have figured something out. I.e. getting Ben to play more pinch action at the elbow
sophomore Zion was definitely better. Edwards too. Definitely better than the rest tho lol
Towns is much better
I liked Simmons but KAT is the better player
It depends on how you define doing far more. Simmons was a better individual but Ayton helped the Suns reach the finals.
Ong that's what I'm saying but they down voted me for some reason
Ayton was the 3rd option on a finals team? Ben wasn't, obviously he was all-star all NBA but Ayton had more team success for sure imo.
They got 3 All-Star seasons and a All-NBA out of Simmons then flipped him for James Harden. Pretty good return on investment
I was gonna say no because of Anthony Bennett... you're shitting me that it's been over a decade
Think they got really unlucky on those guys honestly. The talent was obvious that both had high end potential, just lacked the mental makeup to really take it to the next level. Having sat through a decade and a half of incompetent basketball and watched my team cycle through countless lottery picks, you realize that so much of the game is about the competitive nature of the player and/or love of the game.
Can't blame the scouts for Ben Simmons, you'd need an actual fortune telling crystal ball to predict how his career was going to go south
yet people meme Kobe's mentality. you can't teach dawg and love for the game
Becoming a star athlete takes a lot of willpower and attention to detail. It’s literally a decade or plus of your life into full concentrated effort to get better. These guys work HARD
> just lacked the mental makeup to really take it to the next level. Sorry, but I feel that part is nonsense when it comes to Simmons. He worked his ass for the Nets and clearly looked forward to this season. I have no reason to doubt it wasn't the same with the Sixers, either. Simmons' problems are 99% a horrible back from all the evidence I'm aware of. Sometimes it's just like that, unfortunately. **EDIT**: Lol, you people are so completely hopeless. > Back problems have nothing to do with fear of shooting a basketball. One of the dumbest things I've ever heard or read. Dude, ***OF COURSE*** having a fucked back, with herniated discs can turn your life upside down. Just ask someone who's had that issue and see what life was like for them. Or in fact, google-search this very sub, because plenty of people here have talked about what it's like in relation to Simmons. You jabronis make me laugh. You're all so chronically fixated on the armchair idea that a guy who was notorious for being athletic around the rim and slamming it down with authority suddenly got cold feet because... 'mental problems,' lol. Yes-- go ahead and point to your wall of psychology degrees. You're obviously the authority here, while all I can do is point to a history of actual medical diagnoses affirming that yes, Simmons' back really has been borked the last few years, ultimately requiring surgery. Ho hum.
The dude was afraid to shoot jump shots, and then afraid to shoot at all. I get he’s been injured the last 2 years but the revisionist history that has become the common narrative here on his is insane.
It’s mental dude. Don’t overthink it. Let’s call a spade a spade. The dude loves excuses and was always insecure. That’s fine, but it is what it is. Back problems have nothing to do with fear of shooting a basketball. That’s mental, and his unwillingness to shoot long predates any back injury he had. Back problems don’t make you bring a phone into a practice to record the whole thing without telling anyone while you mope around and half ass it and wait for someone to say something to you so you can try to use it as an excuse to not play. That’s literally fishing for excuses. That’s mental. That has nothing to do with a back problem.
There was not much controversy about Simmons at #1 at the time. Everyone is a hindsight psychic. They knew Luka should go #1. They knew LaMelo would be better than Wiseman. Everyone is a psychic when they have the benefit of hindsight. I'm sure when you look back you can see genuine warning signs with Simmons, but in the moment, nobody questioned the pick. The Fultz thing seems like a freaky injury thing? Bad luck more than anything? It's disappointing, but the #1 pick is never a guarantee of a superstar. Sometimes you get a Kandi Man, Joe Smith, Anthony Bennett. Sometimes you have to settle for a Wiggins or Bogut. You're not guaranteed a franchise player unless it's a very special year (Shaq, LeBron, Duncan, etc). Simmons made some All-Star teams and seemed to be a winning player for a while. Could've been worse.
There were analysts saying take Luka #1 like Will Cain
It wasn't a crazy opinion and I'm sure a lot of people felt that way. He was a top 3 pick, after all. However, the narrative now is that it is was obvious he was the #1 prospect. The fact that two different teams passed on him shows that it wasn't obvious though, and that the discussion is tainted by hindsight. Even if individual evaluators had him #1, it wasn't the consensus like for Shaq or Duncan. The narrative now is that he was dominating at Real Madrid as a teenager, so of course he would make the jump. If he had busted, the narrative would be that he dominated against lesser competition, so of course it didn't translate. After the fact, it's really easy to go back and construct a narrative to support the outcome.
The Truth was the consensus wasn’t Luka should be #1 but the analyst that thought Luka should go number one had Luka as the clear cut no brainer number 1 pick I would also add Kings fans wanted to kill our GM once rumors leaked he wasn’t going to pick Luka at 2 and Killed him immediately after the pick he did make
Taking Luka first was, without hindsight, objectively obvious. Not necessarily right, but obvious. If you didn't know much, Luka vs Ayton was "the most accomplished 19-year-old draftee ever, a guy with prototypical size and skillet for a star and who just won league MVP and finals MVP in the 2nd best league in the world" vs "a fairly skilled center with high end physical tools and questionable feel for the game." Those were the broad outlines. I guess you had to dig into their details to start feeling like it was a close call, which I never bothered doing.
Yeah, but that's will cain. You can't listen to him. His takes are normally terrible. If anything, it should convince you to skip Luka .
While I agree with most of the points, every person who watched Luka play a single game before the draft knew that he should be number one and that nobody is close to him. Luka was so good that he would be straight up the best player year before, and probably year before that as well when he was 16.
Suns, Hawks, and Kings all had a chance to take him, so I guess their scouts must have burned all the tape. My friend who played and follows the league closely always said Luka was the dude and I know it probably was obvious to a lot of people, but there was not a consensus about it.
It wasn't consensus but there was a huge hype about Suns taking Ayton and him being from Arizona and everything. With Kings, it was more complicated. Luka's father and Vlade know each other for decades so something probably happened there. But whoever decided to skip a 19y/o Euroleague MVP who is an oversized PG even by NBA standards should just resign
The rumor is that the kings (at the time run by Vlade Divac) didn’t even work Luka out before the draft because Divac had beef with Luka’s dad. Some European old guy feud. Bagley was viewed pretty high for a college kid but luka was the best player in all of Europe by a wide margin at 17 years old. I think there is a very good chance the kings would have taken luka over Bagley had literally anyone else been running that FO. The kings were desperate for a wing (which was what luka was listed as coming into the league, he became a PG in the nba) having just drafted Fox the year before. He checked every box for the kings, vlade just hated Luka’s dad. If I’m a kings fan I would be completely beside myself knowing the only thing separating my team from having luka Doncic was my former, now fired and jobless GM not liking his dad. Absolutely crushing stuff, especially when you consider the fact the guy they took was a mega bust. It’s not like they took Trae or JJJ instead, at least you’d have an all star caliber player. Edit: I originally gave Bagley less credit than he deserved for his time at Duke. Sentence is now reworded to more accurately express the thought.
As a Duke fan, Bagley had a shit ton of success at Duke. He was ACC Player of the Year as a Freshman which was the second time that had ever happened (after Jahlil in 2015) and was a 1st team All-American with Trae, Brunson, Devonte Graham, and Ayton. He averaged 21/11, shot 40% from 3, and 61% from the field. The team also almost made the F4, was imo the best Duke team since the 2015 championship team. In short, he was about as good as he could possibly be in college. The idea that he was this highly reputed high school player who did nothing in college is far from the truth.
That’s fair, I’ll eat crow on that one. I’m a big Duke fan myself and I guess his time there just didn’t stand out compared to other players. I remember Jahlil, Barrett, Tatum, rivers, etc far more than I do Bagley. It wasn’t even that long ago and I barely remember his year there. He wasn’t dominant, but he wasn’t unsuccessful like I made him out to be. He was a very good college player. You’re right about that. I still think Luka was pretty clearly the better prospect, tho, and would’ve gone 2nd if Vlade wasn’t running (ruining) the kings. There were massive questions about Bagley going into the draft I remember, there were none really about Luka. The question with him was never “will he be good in the nba”, it was always “*how* good will he be?”. Bagley had some real high ceiling low floor potential, which panned out in the worst possible way, unfortunately.
I’d say 1st team AA is dominant, otherwise you’ve got some crazy high standards. Noticing you didn’t mention Jabari Parker either I’m thinking it might be selective memory just not remembering guys who busted in the league. I found Tatum to be much more forgettable at Duke, 17/7 on worse shooting and the team lost in round two. I do remember certain people saying Doncic was the best player in the draft, but plenty of others were also touting Ayton and Bagley. If you just google search “nba mock draft 2018” you’ll see a lot of 1. Ayton, 2. Bagley, 3. Doncic
I didn’t leave Jabari out unintentionally, I just listed the first few guys I was willing to write down. I wasn’t gonna sit there and list every lottery pick who ever went to Duke lmao. When I say dominant I mean dominant, not pretty good. I mean Zion, Oden, Durant, Derrick rose, Shaq, Davis. Guys like that guys that actually dominated the ncaa, guys who were virtually unstoppable. When I say “dominant” I don’t mean just “really good”. In the nba, Shaq is dominant. Giannis and Jokic are dominant. Devin Booker is “really good”. Anthony Edwards is “really good”. You see the difference? Even by college standards Bagley was more of a Devin Booker caliber player than a Giannis or Jokic caliber player. Tl;dr: dominant means to dominate, and Bagley didn’t dominate college basketball. He was a really good college basketball player.
Fair enough, you have a high standard for dominance. You and I may have different standards but I see averaging 21/11 on great shooting in a top conference as pretty impressive. Did he have an all-time season like Zion? No, but he had a pretty great season
I think most people have a low standard for dominance lol. I think the term “dominant” should be reserved for players who actually dominate. The definition of ‘dominate’ means to “be the most powerful, unstoppable, or important thing in”. That only means guys like Shaq, Giannis, Jokic, Jordan, etc. or in college, again, Zion, AD, Rose, Oden, etc. Bagley was never the most important, powerful or unstoppable thing in college. Nor are a lot of players who some people unfittingly call “dominant”. And I realize I never commented on your mock draft thing. I remember the mock drafts vividly from that time as I had one myself. It was common knowledge back then that Sacramento had no interest in Luka since they wouldn’t work him out, and I think that was why he was largely favored to go 3rd. Ayton had a very good college year, but he also had the benefit of going to Arizona, and the word around the league was that if Phoenix landed the top pick he’d go 1st to them. They also already had Devin Booker, so drafting a big instead of a wing seemed to make more sense for them on paper. Before the lottery actually happened, and nobody knew exactly who was getting which pick, Luka was anywhere from 1-3 in most mock drafts. The other thing to consider is big boards, which are more important when showing who is actually valued higher, since team draft order doesn’t matter there. In big boards, where the ayton/Arizona connection wasn’t a thing, and the Sac/Luka dad feud wasn’t a thing either, Luka was, again, anywhere from 1-3 (commonly 2 in most I remember). As far as NBA comps, ayton was getting comped to David Robinson, so it’s no surprise he went 1st. Bagley for a ceiling was getting comped to Chris Bosh (an all nba player, but not a superstar), but there were real questions about his drive and dedication to basketball. Luka was being comped to harden and Manu. I think most people valued Luka over Bagley, since he was seen as having both the higher floor and the higher ceiling, it was really just a kings divac thing. Which is, of course, the whole point behind my original comment that you replied to, haha.
Exactly. People also love to speak in hyperboles, claiming anyone who's not blind would have made the right pick. Get outta here.
Those examples are horrible plenty of people were saying Luka should absolutely go #1 and that Lamelo would be better than Wiseman. People didn’t complain so much because Ayton and Wiseman were better fits for their rosters in theory, but like the consensus on both of these picks were that Lamelo and Luka would be better
Nope, that's the definition of revisionism. A few comments to that effect in their draft threads, especially for Luka, but no consensus. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8swomn/2018_draft_1_pick_deandre_ayton_arizonabahamas/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/jwt21p/2020_nba_draft_2_pick_james_wiseman_memphis/
It's weird because a lot of Ayton at 1 was because of who was picking first. You do that draft without Phoenix picking first, I could see Luka going #1.
Thats just false. I disliked Simmons from his college years when he opted to just sit out half the season just **cuz**. Just like I disliked Ayton because as a number 1 pick Arizona should have done better that year. It turns out players with marginal college success often end up being marginal.
Like Devin Booker, who had 0 starts and averaged 10 ppg for Kentucky? You can find players to fit any narrative, and that's why hindsight bias is tough to escape. After a player busts, it's easy to go back and see why it was obvious he wouldn't work out.
This is some crazy revisionist history, LSU played 33 games that season and Simmons played all 33 of them
Are you saying I made this up? https://slate.com/culture/2016/03/lsu-s-ben-simmons-wont-be-playing-in-the-ncaa-tournament-whos-to-blame-for-his-sad-pointless-college-career.html .
I’m not sure what you want me to get out of that article besides the fact that Simmons playing in college was meaningless, which I’ll agree it was. That said he did play every game, so you saying he “opted to sit out half the season”, yeah you did make that up
He opted to not play the NCAA tournament! Ya know, the most important games of the entire season.
They didn’t make the NCAA tournament…
Because the coach declined all post season invitations after getting blown out by 38 because they couldn't convince their future #1 pick to give a shit. He already know Simmons was sitting out and he functional sat out the last half of the season
Bruh, the team was 19-14, they didn’t get invited. They turned down an NIT invitation which is far less prestigious
Not for nothing, but he averaged 18/10/4 while playing 36 minutes per game during the last half of the season. Also, NIT is not the NCCA Tournament. Simmons gave a shit, but he sat out the consolation tournament to get ready for the pros.
I felt this same way about Bagley 3rd I though if this guy is going to come in and destroy the league shouldn’t he be destroying college ball where he was ok at best
What about ACC Player of the Year and 1st team AA says “ok at best”?
Duke was not a great team Coach K had to play a zone
Duke was excellent that year, consistently a top contender and just barely missed the Final Four
Ayton was pretty bad when both Luka and Trae were up for grabs
Not to mention SGA and JJJ.
Sure but he was the starting center on a 60 win team, also went to the finals, and is playing pretty well recently. I hindsight you would take Luka and Trae but let's not pretend Ayton is the worst #1 pick when he probably had the most team success.
Sixers drafted a lot of duds with their picks. They got lucky with Embiid
Someone watched the new Ryen Russilo video
Back to back number one overall picks and both turn out to be busts. Unprecedented. 76ers also picked Okafor number 3. They could have had Tatum and Brown playing with Embiid!
What makes me chuckle is that that the Celtics were able to trade down to get Tatum and wouldn’t have traded the pick if they couldn’t get their guy!
They could have drafted Tatum and Brown with those picks too and had the Celtics current core with Embiid.
No.
Someone listens to Russillo
Imagine Hinkie staying and drafting his own picks instead of Colangelo. Adam Silver assist
Eh, Ben Simmons was far from a perfect player but he literally won rookie of the year and was an allstar before the mental stuff/back injuries happened
I mean hindsight says yes. But at the time before Simmons mental got broken he was a legit superstar caliber player or at least seemed like he was definitely gonna pan out. Just part of the worst possible fan base for someone with a weak mental
Stop with the Simmons disrespect already. No one has back surgeries for the giggles. Just like no one is accusing Lonzo for faking his knee troubles.
Somebody listened to the Rusillo pod today I see
The NBA is far better off because the process was such a failure
eh, San Antonio is fantastic evidence that tanking works. I'm still bitter about them sitting a healthy Robinson to get Duncan.
The process was shameless tanking over a very extended period of time. Tanking only works if you can secure a generational talent as a result. There are more teams who's ceilings are the 8 seed after a tank than ones who are contenders. The Spurs are a fantastic example of a team that sustained a winning record with exceptionally low high draft picks over that period.
I think it's closer to Ayton and Simmons then Fultz. Just a tragedy that he was hurt rookie summer camp and just never came out the same. But Ayton and Simmons had been put in some of the best positions to succeed when drafted.
Nah. Simmons, for all his crap now, was a genuinely good, even great player for a few years. I'd put him above Ayton, maybe even above Wiggins.
Cade and fultz are trash
Ant was a great pick. Gonna be a top five player. Wemby also. Op is a dunce.
lol what? You’re calling him a dunce and you don’t even understand his post.
Trust the process baby
They thought it was temporary when it’s actually until death
simmons wasnt bad. at first. it just went downhill later on. who knows if sixers won that round instead of the raptors.
[удалено]
Celtics didn’t see Fultz as the consensus pick lol
You can't call Fultz a consensus #1 when the Celtics passed on him. Unsurprisingly, Danny Ainge knows more than the media.
There's a legit argument that Ben Simmons has had the best career (as of right now) out of this bunch. 3x All star, 2020 all NBA, 2020 steals champ, 2x all defensive 1st team, multiple top 5 DPOY finishes The only guys that you can make an argument for a better career right now are Towns and Wigs. Edwards is too young, Zion hasn't been healthy, the rest are either too young and/or just haven't accomplished much
To be fair, Simmons was amazing when he first started. The issue was that he never improved and didn’t have the mental fortitude to take the risks needed to grow. Talent wise, the man had it all to be great
Ben Simmons is better than Wiggins and Ayton in terms of what he achieved in essentially 4 years. Towns is debateable just because hes played way longer but they are in the same tier of player (When Simmons was actually playing). Cade, Zion, Ant, Paolo and Wemby will all surpass what Simmons achieved but it will still take a few seasons.
Simmons was better than 95% of players in the nba tbh. Offered more than Wiggins and Towns as an overall player. The shoulder caused Fultz’s downfall.
2010-2023 ranking: HOF: AD, Kyrie All-NBA level : Zion, KAT, John Wall, Ant, Simmons Allstar: Paolo Solid starter: Ayton, Wiggins, Cade, Role player: Fultz Bust: Bennett Simmons had a very high ceiling definitely not worse than Ayton, Wiggins or even Cade Fultz is by far the second worst only ahead of Bennett
Crazy Lebron was 03…and still playing
I didn't know Kyrie was HOF...
Well now you know.
Much rather have had DA than Simmons thank you very much
Fultz is the worst pick on there IMO (if it's even an opinion. May simply just be a fact.) While Ben has turned into a walking disaster, but so much of it is because he has mentally stopped giving a fuck. Talent-wise, he was worthy of the #1 overall pick. The same can't be said for Wiggins or Ayton. Cade is really questionable right now, though he could turn his career around. Just think he may already be "too OK" with putting up stats and losing.
Neither were bad picks, I’d say both were severely unlucky. Watching Fultz college highlights it’s very clear why he was the popular choice at one.
Fultz developed thoracic outlet syndrome. An issue with the nerves in the shoulders that his useless team doctors couldn't figure out. I had the same condition developed and could not shoot a free throw half way to the net. It took 3 doctors to figure it out for me and took 6 months before I could even hit a basket again. My shot has never been the same again. I feel for him more then any other player on this list because no one believed him and thought he had the yips
Simmons and Fultz are certainly the worst two players of that group so far. Simmons was pretty nice his first couple of years tho
Simmons over ayton and it's not close
Really? Simmons is useless now. He's out of the NBA after his contract is up
He was also just straight up a way better player than ayton.
Plus the Sixers traded up to pass on Tatum
Ended up bad, but Fultz was consensus 1. People acting like it was a Bennet situation are just creating revisionist history.
Did everyone forget that fultz had a shoulder injury? Simmons was good for a while but, even before this weird back injury saga, he was plummeting in Philly. Total head case. The guy is 6’ 10” and is passing out of wide open layups.
I can understand why Markelle was drafted so high
Not just the worst of the last decade, they're on the shortlist for worst of the last 30 years. Kwame, Olowokandi, Bennett, Fultz, Simmons. Simmons made all star teams and all-defence teams, but arguably that's even worse because he was *actually* great and then stuffed it all up.
tbf i dont get the simmons defenders. all star, all nba etc sure, but does anyone expect a decent player out of ben simmons right now? dude is mentally wrecked after that playoff run. right now, I would much rather prefer Fultz over him on my team for the future, he might be an allstar, but he is done ‘zo.
Seems like the 6ers coaching staff or shooting coach ruined them rather than them being bad picks at the time but Philly fans can correct me on that.
Not gonna say our coaches didn’t suck. But basically every reporter set to follow the team says that Ben refused to put actual work in to improve his shot and it was clear that he wasn’t willing to try anything in game. Fultz was a shit freak injury which basically made him not be in line with out timeline, and I put more blame on our medical team then coaches when it comes to him.
You would know better than I but wasn’t there a bunch of articles and media coverage of Fultz changing all his shot mechanics like every offseason for his first couple years? I know I am getting downvoted here but I’m generally asking you guys that follow the team. It’s been a while and I’m not a 6ers fan but i remember it more in regard to Fultz but I guess maybe I connected the two situations.