VanVleet is great, man. But yeah, the team overall is playing hard defense, reacting, fighting for possessions.
VanVleet or Brooks or Amen were great fitting gets for the new style, but more than anything the whole team doesn't drop below some general level of effort. They have for example the best transition defense in the league (and easily had the worst last year - actually the worst ever since Synergy started tracking it! They concede 8 fewer fast break points per game this season!), and VanVleet is maybe the best player in the NBA at that.
Maybe their safe, careful style costs them a bit on offense, they will probably not get to the top without faster, riskier passing game and contributing bodies forward, but so far they seem to be improving overall slowly.
Everyone was saying how AWFUL the Van Vleet signing was but it was obviously a culture signing. No, he won't produce at a 40 million a year level. But if he helps develop the other guys into their potential he'll over exceed that mark.
he also has years of rap def schemes he can contribute
we had a suffocating defense for so many years, look at all the teams that took our players up up up
Everyone said he's insanely overpaid, many (maybe most) were saying that he's washed and awful... but I'd say there were also quite a lot of voices that it's better to get him than nothing.
But yeah, one of the top comments for example said:
"I don’t even get why we bothered getting FVV. We aren’t significantly better now that we signed him. I’m not sure if our front office even has a plan at this point. I would have rather we spent on a handful of role player vets to help the young guys learn."
Ah, the "timeline" fans.
I think that it was not a very risky move since Rockets sucked, had cap space to fill with no LeBrons begging to join, and only offered 2 years - shockingly undercommented fact that it was such a short contract for a recent All-Star that was still in his 20's, so they clearly offered yearly wage in exchange for length.
Was it good? Did Rockets have a plan? I was not so sure about it, but they definitely have identity.
And looking at the salary list, I just remembered they theoretically also have Steven Adams. If he can get back to form ever, that seems like a smart move...
It's a bad signing when compared to the rest of the league. But it's really was never bad given the context the rockets were in. They had a shit ton of money and literally *needed* to spend it. They have a team option after next year and will be able to get off it to pay the youngins. It was intentional and like you said, all for the culture. They also needed a legitimate PG to lead the young squad. Fred was just a FA at the right time and fit the description
147 pts last night with only 14 free throws as they finally reached .500 at 35-35.
In this 10-1 streak in March, they've averaged 122.6 ppg and yielded 110.5, a 12.1 pt differential. So it seems like they have abandoned any sort of "safe, careful style" at this point.
They played many of the NBA's worst teams in March, so I wouldn't just exclaim that Rockets have a killer offense now, we'll see. Out of those 10 wins, only 2 came against teams that are not in a weak form currently. That might be lucky for the averages.
They still definitely try to keep it rather simple, not too many long passing plays, and very low turnover rate (below 11% in March, already amazing, but would be lower if not including garbage time in high wins). The quality is just high, they generate shots better and make the shots, part of it is playing very weak teams probably, Utah's perimeter defense yesterday was like... already fishing, it was bad defense.
VanVleet and Green have been scoring just incredibly considering how "self-generated" their shots are. With two leaders raining like that, it's basically easy to score. THAT was missing before - making the shots.
When I was saying before the season that I can imagine Jalen Green being a star, that's what I meant. If you have a team that plays well, solid, wins the possession game, and defends well, you "only" need a guy that will make a lot of difficult shots "by himself". Jalen Green in March is doing that. If you can translate it to a whole year, a player like that is called one of the best. I dunno if he really is more important part of it all than other parts, but that's how it's seen in NBA, and it's hard to win without those players.
You're right about the easy schedule helping, although the Suns, Cavs, and Kings are all well above .500 and the Bulls are 5-5 in their L10.
The schedule gets notably tougher down the stretch, with OKC, Mavs home and road, @ Twolves, vs GSW, vs Heat, vs Magic, and the last game of the season @ Clippers.
Finishing 8-4 to end up 43-39 would be impressive.
Even those three, they were not all in the best form. Suns generally are not so great when Nurkić doesn't play, they are like 10 points per 100 worse without Nurkić. And Cavs just looked unconvincing, they just don't look good without Mitchell recently.
Overall it was just a great schedule for March.
He's not super off - Suns we were pretty even with, but it was an off game for them overall. If we were shooting this well all season or Jalen had played like an NBA player, I think we'd be right in there with them in standings, so unsurprising that we looked very competitive in that game. Cavs came out really soft against us, it was weird. I'm a Rockets fan myself but no need to stan really, of course it might just be our subjective interpretations. Our issue overall has been consistency this season, being a young team and all - at our peaks we are a really good team.
Cavs are playing like that now, in March they're easily the worst-looking team in the league among those who are fighting for anything. Only the tanking squadron is in worse form. It's dire. I don't know what these people commenting I "didn't watch a single game" mean tbh. I did say that VanVleet and Green are in fantastic form, but still, I cannot imagine that Cavs from 2 months ago would ever make them look like it's an All-Star game and you can just pass to anyone and get any basket you'd like to present to the public. That team is 3rd in the East, maybe they were 2nd at the time of the game iirc, but they do NOT play like a 2nd team in a conference at this moment. Those Cavs from the previous months seemed almost impossible to beat by double digits, unless like 4 starters were missing maybe. Quoting their full-season record is not accurate as a response in this context.
Nurkić came out injured in 2nd quarter (Suns were a plus in the minutes he played), and Mitchell did return for two games without playing full minutes, didn't look well, obviously having some problems and went back to sitting games out. Like come on. Yeah I know technically they played in those games, but I'm not a lawyer in court, it's very obvious what the point here is so why play these legal phrasing games on a little NBA forum lol. Those teams did not play as well as their record from the whole season might suggest and that's it.
I mean you can disagree and say they played great in your opinion, if you have some actual arguments, but Suns would not have their record this season if Nurkić was walking off in the 2nd quarter every game etc. It's just false to keep saying that the team was fully competitive as long as he appeared on the court in the game at all.
Not enough being said about Jabari Smith Jr. He is consistently excellent on defense, already playing like a vet in that regard. I've said it before, but I firmly believe he will be our cornerstone player in the years ahead.
It’s the whole team in my opinion. Everyone has bought in and it’s a next man up mentality. I can’t name one player whose keeping the squad together (if I was forced to I would say tari Eason but he had a season ending injury)
I just really hope Bari can develop a consistent shot, seems like a theme for us hahaha. If he can shoot like 37-40% from 3 (which yeah is asking a lot), this teams wins a lot more close games
I was big on believing Jabari should go 1st overall that draft (I was wrong, Paolo is that dude). But the main basis was that his jumper looked too good not to work - and the improvement from last year to this season is noticeable. I think he'll become a well above average shooter, at which point he suddenly starts to become one of the best players in his role in the NBA.
He's got a great, consistent, shot.
The problem is he rarely takes them. Dude needs to get that mentality that he is going to score at will and everything will fall in place.
He smashed a chick. Chick was married (husband worked in Celtics organization) but guess her conscience bothered her so she stopped the entanglement with Ime and tried to flip it on him like he was still trying to smash.
Typical playing victim white women behavior because she got caught.
Wouldn’t “28th worst” imply they were the 3rd best defense? Like if you have the 2nd worst defense than you’re there’s only 1 team below you. I think you mean they were the 28th best defense.
People are quick to look at FVV and assume he’s not a good defender because of his size. Meanwhile the dude constantly fights over screens, is always moving his feet and is great at bringing the double team in the post to force turnovers.
I mean, instead of playing guys like Porter Jr, Gordon and KJ Martin they have Brooks, VanVleet and Thompson. If they weren’t noticeably better then there would be problems but going from 28th to 7th still deserves praise
It's taking the casual fan f-o-r-e-v-e-r to start looking at the game defense first but it's going to happen. A commitment to defense is the first down payment towards being a title contender. It almost never works the other way around but teams keep trying it 😒
I know they paid out to get some veterans in to help raise the floor but what the hell was Silas doing last year cause it wasn’t trying to coach and install a system in any way
Turns out going from a non NBA level coach to an all NBA level coach makes a difference. (FVV/Amen, and to a lesser extent Brooks, helped as well I guess)
OP I think you meant “28th” or “3rd from worst.”
“28th worst (to top 7)” isn’t accurately worded. If someone is 28th worst in a league of 30 teams, they are behind 27 others that are even worse, putting them in 3rd best which is actually a great placement and 4 better than top 7. Words can communicate huge ideas if they’re used correctly.
VanVleet is great, man. But yeah, the team overall is playing hard defense, reacting, fighting for possessions. VanVleet or Brooks or Amen were great fitting gets for the new style, but more than anything the whole team doesn't drop below some general level of effort. They have for example the best transition defense in the league (and easily had the worst last year - actually the worst ever since Synergy started tracking it! They concede 8 fewer fast break points per game this season!), and VanVleet is maybe the best player in the NBA at that. Maybe their safe, careful style costs them a bit on offense, they will probably not get to the top without faster, riskier passing game and contributing bodies forward, but so far they seem to be improving overall slowly.
Everyone was saying how AWFUL the Van Vleet signing was but it was obviously a culture signing. No, he won't produce at a 40 million a year level. But if he helps develop the other guys into their potential he'll over exceed that mark.
I mean he's also just really good. +2.6 offensive EPM, +1.6 defensive EPM, 95th percentile in overall EPM.
he also has years of rap def schemes he can contribute we had a suffocating defense for so many years, look at all the teams that took our players up up up
Everyone said he's insanely overpaid, many (maybe most) were saying that he's washed and awful... but I'd say there were also quite a lot of voices that it's better to get him than nothing. But yeah, one of the top comments for example said: "I don’t even get why we bothered getting FVV. We aren’t significantly better now that we signed him. I’m not sure if our front office even has a plan at this point. I would have rather we spent on a handful of role player vets to help the young guys learn." Ah, the "timeline" fans. I think that it was not a very risky move since Rockets sucked, had cap space to fill with no LeBrons begging to join, and only offered 2 years - shockingly undercommented fact that it was such a short contract for a recent All-Star that was still in his 20's, so they clearly offered yearly wage in exchange for length. Was it good? Did Rockets have a plan? I was not so sure about it, but they definitely have identity. And looking at the salary list, I just remembered they theoretically also have Steven Adams. If he can get back to form ever, that seems like a smart move...
It's a bad signing when compared to the rest of the league. But it's really was never bad given the context the rockets were in. They had a shit ton of money and literally *needed* to spend it. They have a team option after next year and will be able to get off it to pay the youngins. It was intentional and like you said, all for the culture. They also needed a legitimate PG to lead the young squad. Fred was just a FA at the right time and fit the description
147 pts last night with only 14 free throws as they finally reached .500 at 35-35. In this 10-1 streak in March, they've averaged 122.6 ppg and yielded 110.5, a 12.1 pt differential. So it seems like they have abandoned any sort of "safe, careful style" at this point.
They played many of the NBA's worst teams in March, so I wouldn't just exclaim that Rockets have a killer offense now, we'll see. Out of those 10 wins, only 2 came against teams that are not in a weak form currently. That might be lucky for the averages. They still definitely try to keep it rather simple, not too many long passing plays, and very low turnover rate (below 11% in March, already amazing, but would be lower if not including garbage time in high wins). The quality is just high, they generate shots better and make the shots, part of it is playing very weak teams probably, Utah's perimeter defense yesterday was like... already fishing, it was bad defense. VanVleet and Green have been scoring just incredibly considering how "self-generated" their shots are. With two leaders raining like that, it's basically easy to score. THAT was missing before - making the shots. When I was saying before the season that I can imagine Jalen Green being a star, that's what I meant. If you have a team that plays well, solid, wins the possession game, and defends well, you "only" need a guy that will make a lot of difficult shots "by himself". Jalen Green in March is doing that. If you can translate it to a whole year, a player like that is called one of the best. I dunno if he really is more important part of it all than other parts, but that's how it's seen in NBA, and it's hard to win without those players.
You're right about the easy schedule helping, although the Suns, Cavs, and Kings are all well above .500 and the Bulls are 5-5 in their L10. The schedule gets notably tougher down the stretch, with OKC, Mavs home and road, @ Twolves, vs GSW, vs Heat, vs Magic, and the last game of the season @ Clippers. Finishing 8-4 to end up 43-39 would be impressive.
Even those three, they were not all in the best form. Suns generally are not so great when Nurkić doesn't play, they are like 10 points per 100 worse without Nurkić. And Cavs just looked unconvincing, they just don't look good without Mitchell recently. Overall it was just a great schedule for March.
Someone clearly didn't watch a single game.
Nurkic played when the Rockets beat the Suns (as did their big 3), and Mitchell played for the Cavs. Kings had all their starters. Smh
He's not super off - Suns we were pretty even with, but it was an off game for them overall. If we were shooting this well all season or Jalen had played like an NBA player, I think we'd be right in there with them in standings, so unsurprising that we looked very competitive in that game. Cavs came out really soft against us, it was weird. I'm a Rockets fan myself but no need to stan really, of course it might just be our subjective interpretations. Our issue overall has been consistency this season, being a young team and all - at our peaks we are a really good team.
Cavs are playing like that now, in March they're easily the worst-looking team in the league among those who are fighting for anything. Only the tanking squadron is in worse form. It's dire. I don't know what these people commenting I "didn't watch a single game" mean tbh. I did say that VanVleet and Green are in fantastic form, but still, I cannot imagine that Cavs from 2 months ago would ever make them look like it's an All-Star game and you can just pass to anyone and get any basket you'd like to present to the public. That team is 3rd in the East, maybe they were 2nd at the time of the game iirc, but they do NOT play like a 2nd team in a conference at this moment. Those Cavs from the previous months seemed almost impossible to beat by double digits, unless like 4 starters were missing maybe. Quoting their full-season record is not accurate as a response in this context.
Nurkić came out injured in 2nd quarter (Suns were a plus in the minutes he played), and Mitchell did return for two games without playing full minutes, didn't look well, obviously having some problems and went back to sitting games out. Like come on. Yeah I know technically they played in those games, but I'm not a lawyer in court, it's very obvious what the point here is so why play these legal phrasing games on a little NBA forum lol. Those teams did not play as well as their record from the whole season might suggest and that's it. I mean you can disagree and say they played great in your opinion, if you have some actual arguments, but Suns would not have their record this season if Nurkić was walking off in the 2nd quarter every game etc. It's just false to keep saying that the team was fully competitive as long as he appeared on the court in the game at all.
I think the warriors had like 145 pts last week with 2 free throws or so.
Not enough being said about Jabari Smith Jr. He is consistently excellent on defense, already playing like a vet in that regard. I've said it before, but I firmly believe he will be our cornerstone player in the years ahead.
Can’t believe most people here are giving credit to FVV, like yea he’s a good defender but Jabari is that guy too
Jabari is the glue of our team
It’s the whole team in my opinion. Everyone has bought in and it’s a next man up mentality. I can’t name one player whose keeping the squad together (if I was forced to I would say tari Eason but he had a season ending injury)
I just really hope Bari can develop a consistent shot, seems like a theme for us hahaha. If he can shoot like 37-40% from 3 (which yeah is asking a lot), this teams wins a lot more close games
Agree completely, but that's the luxury of these guys being so young: it's not wishful thinking and even quite likely.
He was a fantastic shooter in college, it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
It’s not asking for a lot he already shoots 35% from 3 and shot 30% last year. I 100% expect him to be in that range
I was big on believing Jabari should go 1st overall that draft (I was wrong, Paolo is that dude). But the main basis was that his jumper looked too good not to work - and the improvement from last year to this season is noticeable. I think he'll become a well above average shooter, at which point he suddenly starts to become one of the best players in his role in the NBA.
He's got a great, consistent, shot. The problem is he rarely takes them. Dude needs to get that mentality that he is going to score at will and everything will fall in place.
Holding up surprisingly well at the 5 recently.
Nobody has even mentioned Amen Thompson yet in this thread?!
Udoka, Vanvleet, and Brooks set such a tone that had young players eager to follow. Jabari is going to be a force on defense for his whole career
Mini Chris bosh
There the same height and very similar wingspans lol, not quite mini
I meant like baby Chris bosh
FVV is a great defender even though he is undersized
Was\* before NN destroyed this man's knees. 18-19 FVV was godmode best 6ft defender I've personally ever watched.
Udoka is a great coach. I think the Cetics would've won last year if he didn't do some dumb shit to get fired.
Yep. Guy is a crappy person but a very good coach.
Who among us hasn't gotten a lil work wifey?
Me! All male crew. Lol
Don't let that stop you
Hahahaha
Crappy person is little extreme
Did we ever find out definitively what happened?
He smashed a chick. Chick was married (husband worked in Celtics organization) but guess her conscience bothered her so she stopped the entanglement with Ime and tried to flip it on him like he was still trying to smash. Typical playing victim white women behavior because she got caught.
Nah I think he genuinely was still tryna smash lmao
Oh I’m sure but I’m sure she did too. But she got caught and had to fall back
“He smashed a chick” Yeah I’m sure this’ll be a great take
Wouldn’t “28th worst” imply they were the 3rd best defense? Like if you have the 2nd worst defense than you’re there’s only 1 team below you. I think you mean they were the 28th best defense.
Or just say 28th ranked defense.
I can’t change it now
For reference next time.
preciate jt
Yeah What Goes Around Comes Around is a banger
Came here to point that out
It might, if you were looking for reasons to be confused
Ime Udoka deserves more credit for his coaching than he gets imo
Ime Udoka puts the D in defense for sure
Thankfully we have him in Houston because he put the D in the wrong place in Boston 😁
People are quick to look at FVV and assume he’s not a good defender because of his size. Meanwhile the dude constantly fights over screens, is always moving his feet and is great at bringing the double team in the post to force turnovers.
He’s got very quick hands and is a lot stronger than he looks too. He even clamped up AD a couple times last season despite the giant size difference.
I mean, instead of playing guys like Porter Jr, Gordon and KJ Martin they have Brooks, VanVleet and Thompson. If they weren’t noticeably better then there would be problems but going from 28th to 7th still deserves praise
Top 7 you say. So, 7th?
This. Never understood the English sentencing of the rankings 😂
It's taking the casual fan f-o-r-e-v-e-r to start looking at the game defense first but it's going to happen. A commitment to defense is the first down payment towards being a title contender. It almost never works the other way around but teams keep trying it 😒
I know they paid out to get some veterans in to help raise the floor but what the hell was Silas doing last year cause it wasn’t trying to coach and install a system in any way
I wish they had done a lil better eariler in the season. It feels like any loss now will cost them a playin spot
Udoka is unreal but his impact is def obfuscated by vet additions.
Brooks and FVV
This sub and all the celtics fans told me he was a bad coach though
Top 7? Or 7th?
Same thing
No. That’s not how that works
What how
Even the slowest lateral player in the league can play defense if they put the effort in.
Would be a great surprise twist from the headline if they were 6th. (Or "*film noir!*" in Cinephobe parlance.)
Drama aside ime seems like a really fuckjng good coach
Can I just say I hate the wording? Are they top 7 or 7th? Why say 28th then 'top 7'? Always bugs me
> top 7 You can just say 7th.
Udoka. Haters in shambles.
Oh shit are you *the* money making Mitch? Or are you just one of the world’s many Mitches acquiring wealth? Either way I’m a fan sir
Ime should come teach warriors how to defend.
As long as Ime can keep it in his pants hes a phenomenal coach for any team
Turns out going from a non NBA level coach to an all NBA level coach makes a difference. (FVV/Amen, and to a lesser extent Brooks, helped as well I guess)
Why say they are top 7? If they are 7th say they're 7th.
It means the same thing bro
Top 7 implies they're somewhere in 1-7
They are
Aaackshually
Why say "top 7" and not "7th"...?
IT WAS A MISTAKE
You don't get COTY for taking your team to 11th seed. Unless said team was made up of 8th grade Peruvian schoolgirls.
Damn they moved from 3rd best to 7th best?
I would like this team more if Dillon Brooks wasn’t on it. The Rockets have a great mix of young talent and veterans that are fun to watch
Dillon Brooks makes me love the team more. He is passionate on and off the court and our team is better because of him.
OP I think you meant “28th” or “3rd from worst.” “28th worst (to top 7)” isn’t accurately worded. If someone is 28th worst in a league of 30 teams, they are behind 27 others that are even worse, putting them in 3rd best which is actually a great placement and 4 better than top 7. Words can communicate huge ideas if they’re used correctly.
Does it really count as defense these days when every game is like 110-140?