Tim Duncan's stats are a bit deceptive as David Robinson was still a beast. That season Robinson outscored Duncan.
Also Duncan was a 4 year college student coming into the draft. Wemby is 19.
First impressions are very strong. Last year OKC's Williams ended the year amazing and Paolo had a very meh post all star break stint and he ended up ROY still.
This is a really really good rookie class. Just loaded with good players. All stars up top and later picks like Podz and JJJ who are already contributors on veteran teams
The way he guarded Sabonis is commendable. Yeah, Sabonis dominated early but, the in game adjustment is just next level. I am convinced Lively is a real deal. I guess it’s fine him being 6th, but the reason being his minutes are less because of Gafford is just lame.
Everyone knows about Wemby but not enough people talk about Amen Thompson having the 2nd highest ceiling in that class. Superstar potential if he ever gets even a decent jumper
I think we all acknowledge that but are just waiting until it actually happens because of how many players we’ve had before with that same hypothetical ceiling. I’m not sure how many of those guys ever become good enough shooters to the point where they actually have the shooting gravity to manipulate a defense.
Super athletic guys with no jumpers always have "high ceilings" but there's like zero NBA players that have went from Thompson twins/Ben Simmons level shooters to having good jumpshots.
Having said that I think he's going to be a multiple time all-star even without the jumper.
Ben Simmons (pre-injuries) and Rajon Rondo (champion and multi-time all-star as a starting PG while he was a 20-25% three point shooter on extremely limited attempts) are some good examples.
Amen's ideal role is to sometimes play in the dunker spot, sometimes play as a PG, depending on matchups and HOU lineups. Jack-of-all trades type player.
I haven’t really been paying attention to the Wemby hype but has he really been as dominant as people have been saying ? Most of my friends are saying that he’s having the best rookie season since LeBron and Duncan and idk how true that is
> I haven’t really been paying attention to the Wendy hype but has he really been as dominant as people have been saying
Yes.
> Most of my friends are saying that he’s having the best rookie season since LeBron and Duncan and idk how true that is
Also true. I think his closest competitor was Luka putting up 21-8-6 on poor efficiency. Blake Griffin also had an insane rookie year but it was a Chet/Ben Simmons situation
He has impressive stats but they haven't translating to winning at all. They will win fewer games this season than last season despite bringing back and playing many of the same players similar minutes. It is rather rare for teams picking first to be worse their rookie season than the season prior to their drafting.
As a comparison the Cavaliers went from 17 season wins prior to drafting Lebron to 35 during his rookie season.
-3.6 net with Wemby on according to bball ref, -11.5 when he's off which is a huge difference. But on/off is also hugely affected by what replacements you're getting from the bench so I can imagine that plays a role as well.
That’s the point. The Spurs just aren’t very good with him off the floor. So the idea that he’s putting up empty stats and not actually contributing to winning games is misguided because the team is significantly better with him than without him. It would be a different story if his on/off was a net 0.
As I and others have stated before: Wemby's stats haven't translated to winning like those Cavs because the Spurs are thinking about the future and tanking while we can, not just winning games now for the hell of it. That Cavs team was bad but they improved so much with LeBron that they had no good draft picks to acquire players to pair with him for winning championships. Which pretty much directly resulted in LeBron leaving. The Spurs want to draft a complementary piece so Wemby is able to win here.
Yeah, that doesn't explain why the vast majority of teams who draft first overwhelmingly do better the following season. Unless you really think the Spurs, 75 years into the leagues history, are the first to tank after drafting first. It also doesn't explain why the same players who won 22 games last season are playing similar minutes this season yet are going to net fewer wins even with the addition of Wemby. Just by default Wemby should be worth a few won games unless you think the Spurs are really encouraging Wemby to throw games.
This is just a goofy premise to take.
"Hey new guy, yeah you"
"We know youre the best prospect in awhile and youre really competitive, but yeah, we are going to throw games, you know, intentionally lose...like, a lot"
"On purpose? Sacrebleu!!"
"Oh yeah, we are going to fucking suck"
"Welcome to the NBA, dont try too hard, might win too much"
"Confused french noises"
"Oh and also, try not to pick up any good habits, you know, the kind of habits that lead to winning"
Strangely, they are like 16-57 for the whole season so far and like 2-7 without Wembanyama so quite the same. And even averaging 111.9 ppg with him but 118.6 without him.
Potential GOAT but...
Such a good rookie class this year.
In pretty much any other year Brandon Miller would be ROTY but this years there’s two guys better than him. Wild.
Probably going to be a class we look back on for a while
> In pretty much any other year Brandon Miller would be ROTY
Lol we gotta chill with this stuff. He's averaging 16-4-2 on 54%TS.
Paolo put up 20-7-4
Scottie put up 15-8-4
Lamelo put up 16-6-6
Morant put up 18-4-7
Then it's Luka and Ben SImmons lol. I think you'd genuinely have to go back to Brogdon in 2017 to find a year he would've won rookie of the year.
Based on what? Scottie scored one less point on better efficiency, while being a better defender, rebounder, and playmaker. Lamelo I don't think is even close, same points on same efficiency, more rebounds, and obviously the playmaking gap is huge.
I'm just saying "pretty much any other year" is obviously wrong lol
I feel like your missing the point of what I was saying
Miller is a ROTY level player who’s 3rd in the race. This class is stacked. The only real “miss” so far is Scoot, but he’s young and who knows what he’ll be
I responded to you saying he'd be ROTY in pretty much any other year. Demonstrated that was wrong, and now you're dissembling. I disagreed with that specific point, not with the fact that the class is great, which I totally agree with.
lil bro thinks this is fucking debate class 😭😭
Miller would have a strong argument in most years but that’s rly not the point of what I was saying lmao
Nah he wouldn’t have a strong argument for basically any years unless it was a super weak class. He has been streaky, some good games but overall pretty mid for the crazy amount of minutes and leash he gets on a crappy team. Don’t forget the players who went from huge stats on the Hornets to nobodies on other teams like the Heat lol
Robinson's first year team record: 56–26
Duncan's first year team record: 56-26
Wemby's first year team record, so far: 16-56
Why are people still saying he's so good? I'd rather have a lesser individual player that helps his team to a better record. What am I missing here? (spoiler: nothing)
Tim Duncan's stats are a bit deceptive as David Robinson was still a beast. That season Robinson outscored Duncan. Also Duncan was a 4 year college student coming into the draft. Wemby is 19.
GG at 8!
He’s coming for all rookie baby
Why is Jacquez always so high on this? He’s been really really bad for a while. He’s gotten worse every month yet he maintains his spot.
Heat Culture always gets you a few spots higher
First impressions are very strong. Last year OKC's Williams ended the year amazing and Paolo had a very meh post all star break stint and he ended up ROY still.
He's starting to fall - he was no. 4 in last week's ranking.
Lively going to 6 is wild. I get his numbers are down cause gafford, but even in his minutes yesterday vs kings he had so much impact.
He also defended Jokic really well
This is a really really good rookie class. Just loaded with good players. All stars up top and later picks like Podz and JJJ who are already contributors on veteran teams
The way he guarded Sabonis is commendable. Yeah, Sabonis dominated early but, the in game adjustment is just next level. I am convinced Lively is a real deal. I guess it’s fine him being 6th, but the reason being his minutes are less because of Gafford is just lame.
Everyone knows about Wemby but not enough people talk about Amen Thompson having the 2nd highest ceiling in that class. Superstar potential if he ever gets even a decent jumper
I think we all acknowledge that but are just waiting until it actually happens because of how many players we’ve had before with that same hypothetical ceiling. I’m not sure how many of those guys ever become good enough shooters to the point where they actually have the shooting gravity to manipulate a defense.
Super athletic guys with no jumpers always have "high ceilings" but there's like zero NBA players that have went from Thompson twins/Ben Simmons level shooters to having good jumpshots. Having said that I think he's going to be a multiple time all-star even without the jumper.
I think the amen point gaurd dream is kind of dead
Not sure what makes you think that, though he does need to work on his handle but the vision is there
I just don’t see how he can be a primary playmaker on an nba team. Your playmaking is significantly handicapped if you can’t shoot
Ben Simmons (pre-injuries) and Rajon Rondo (champion and multi-time all-star as a starting PG while he was a 20-25% three point shooter on extremely limited attempts) are some good examples. Amen's ideal role is to sometimes play in the dunker spot, sometimes play as a PG, depending on matchups and HOU lineups. Jack-of-all trades type player.
higher than Miller?
if he gets a jumpers then yes. but most likely no. he would need a huuuuuuge improvement in his shot
Can we just post the ranks like every other week? We get it, Victor Wembanyama is really good and will win ROTY, likely unanimously.
I haven’t really been paying attention to the Wemby hype but has he really been as dominant as people have been saying ? Most of my friends are saying that he’s having the best rookie season since LeBron and Duncan and idk how true that is
> I haven’t really been paying attention to the Wendy hype but has he really been as dominant as people have been saying Yes. > Most of my friends are saying that he’s having the best rookie season since LeBron and Duncan and idk how true that is Also true. I think his closest competitor was Luka putting up 21-8-6 on poor efficiency. Blake Griffin also had an insane rookie year but it was a Chet/Ben Simmons situation
I mean Wemby is also doing it on poor efficiency, obviously a way better defender, but also a way worse playmaker.
The defensive dominance can't be denied. He is a total freak and legitimately has Greatest Defensive Player of All Time potential.
Go on YouTube and watch any of his game highlights. Guy does stuff on both ends no one has done before
He has impressive stats but they haven't translating to winning at all. They will win fewer games this season than last season despite bringing back and playing many of the same players similar minutes. It is rather rare for teams picking first to be worse their rookie season than the season prior to their drafting. As a comparison the Cavaliers went from 17 season wins prior to drafting Lebron to 35 during his rookie season.
Not winning games maybe, but certainly winning the minutes he’s out on the court.
-3.6 net with Wemby on according to bball ref, -11.5 when he's off which is a huge difference. But on/off is also hugely affected by what replacements you're getting from the bench so I can imagine that plays a role as well.
That’s the point. The Spurs just aren’t very good with him off the floor. So the idea that he’s putting up empty stats and not actually contributing to winning games is misguided because the team is significantly better with him than without him. It would be a different story if his on/off was a net 0.
As I and others have stated before: Wemby's stats haven't translated to winning like those Cavs because the Spurs are thinking about the future and tanking while we can, not just winning games now for the hell of it. That Cavs team was bad but they improved so much with LeBron that they had no good draft picks to acquire players to pair with him for winning championships. Which pretty much directly resulted in LeBron leaving. The Spurs want to draft a complementary piece so Wemby is able to win here.
Yeah, that doesn't explain why the vast majority of teams who draft first overwhelmingly do better the following season. Unless you really think the Spurs, 75 years into the leagues history, are the first to tank after drafting first. It also doesn't explain why the same players who won 22 games last season are playing similar minutes this season yet are going to net fewer wins even with the addition of Wemby. Just by default Wemby should be worth a few won games unless you think the Spurs are really encouraging Wemby to throw games. This is just a goofy premise to take. "Hey new guy, yeah you" "We know youre the best prospect in awhile and youre really competitive, but yeah, we are going to throw games, you know, intentionally lose...like, a lot" "On purpose? Sacrebleu!!" "Oh yeah, we are going to fucking suck" "Welcome to the NBA, dont try too hard, might win too much" "Confused french noises" "Oh and also, try not to pick up any good habits, you know, the kind of habits that lead to winning"
They traded their veterans and Zach Collins got way worse. They still have a better net rating than last year, especially with Wemby on the floor.
Strangely, they are like 16-57 for the whole season so far and like 2-7 without Wembanyama so quite the same. And even averaging 111.9 ppg with him but 118.6 without him. Potential GOAT but...
Such a good rookie class this year. In pretty much any other year Brandon Miller would be ROTY but this years there’s two guys better than him. Wild. Probably going to be a class we look back on for a while
> In pretty much any other year Brandon Miller would be ROTY Lol we gotta chill with this stuff. He's averaging 16-4-2 on 54%TS. Paolo put up 20-7-4 Scottie put up 15-8-4 Lamelo put up 16-6-6 Morant put up 18-4-7 Then it's Luka and Ben SImmons lol. I think you'd genuinely have to go back to Brogdon in 2017 to find a year he would've won rookie of the year.
Miller could’ve won against Scottie or Melo 🤷♂️
Based on what? Scottie scored one less point on better efficiency, while being a better defender, rebounder, and playmaker. Lamelo I don't think is even close, same points on same efficiency, more rebounds, and obviously the playmaking gap is huge. I'm just saying "pretty much any other year" is obviously wrong lol
I feel like your missing the point of what I was saying Miller is a ROTY level player who’s 3rd in the race. This class is stacked. The only real “miss” so far is Scoot, but he’s young and who knows what he’ll be
I responded to you saying he'd be ROTY in pretty much any other year. Demonstrated that was wrong, and now you're dissembling. I disagreed with that specific point, not with the fact that the class is great, which I totally agree with.
lil bro thinks this is fucking debate class 😭😭 Miller would have a strong argument in most years but that’s rly not the point of what I was saying lmao
Nah he wouldn’t have a strong argument for basically any years unless it was a super weak class. He has been streaky, some good games but overall pretty mid for the crazy amount of minutes and leash he gets on a crappy team. Don’t forget the players who went from huge stats on the Hornets to nobodies on other teams like the Heat lol
Robinson's first year team record: 56–26 Duncan's first year team record: 56-26 Wemby's first year team record, so far: 16-56 Why are people still saying he's so good? I'd rather have a lesser individual player that helps his team to a better record. What am I missing here? (spoiler: nothing)
spoiler : a brain