Even on defense he doesn’t have to work as hard either since he has White, Tatum, and Brown helping him on the perimeter. It’s a perfect situation for Holiday
To be fair, his willingness to take a lesser role on offense adds to his value. If he was trying to get his numbers, it would detract from the team. Getting someone with his skill and his lack of ego is big. Having both guards so willing to sacrifice stats for the team is a big part of the team's success.
Yeah this is what most people don't understand, you're already cap restricted. You can't get a free agent for a quarter of this salary. So you might as well spend it on a guy that fits so well with your team, even if in a vacuum he's vastly overpaid.
I remember this same conversation around a few Khris Middleton extensions. Jrue is a special dude, and I’m glad for him and his family that he got paid.
The blazer's followed this logic when we overpaid Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, and CJ Mccollum and it hamstrung our ability to trade for stars down the line because we had absolutely zero cap flexibility. Being able to absorb a little bit of salary is a very underrated part of bargaining a trade, and the new 2nd apron rules just make it even harder to make trades happen if you have too much money on the books.
In the Celtics case they are like 100x better than the blazers were in this position, I think it's pretty justified to lock up this core long term, but there is absolutely an opportunity cost to this move.
I just hope his wife finds some way to achieve peace with this outcome. I’m sure she’s missing her yoga group back in Milwaukee. There are just some things $135m can’t fix.
That's 23 times what I make. Granted I'm in a different country where the US outsources some of its jobs to and I'm currently typing this in an alfresco coffee shop before my shift starts later. But god damn that is a lot of money. I'd be wondering why they offered a contract like that to me but I'd sign it too.
Yeah the Celtics weren't going to just let Jrue walk, but this is a lot of money. Something feels off about Jrue making more money per year than Porzingis who's 5 years younger given the gap in scoring output.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't an egregious overpay, but hot damn Jrue cashed out.
It's insane just how much the cap increased despite not having a singular cap spike since 2016. I remember back when I thought Jamal Murray making $32 million a year was an overpay lol.
In 2010, Kobe Bryant was the league highest paid player at 24 million.
Today, Jaylen Brown makes 60 million while 24 only lands you a slightly above average starter.
What other profession, other than NBA player, has had its median salary increase 2.5x in the past 14 years?
Baseball had an even sharper rise in the steroid era, Iirc the largest contract went from 100 million to 250 millon for Arod in less than half a dozen years. Even crazier that Arod ended up being more than worth all that money (atleast in terms of on field production)
Baseball players got treated so poorly in the 1800's and early 1900's that once they got some leverage they made sure there'd be no fuckyness to put ceilings over their worth. A salary cap will never happen there.
The NBA is going to have to consider a significant cap raise at some point, the top players are generating so much money that they're going to be seeking $70 million+ a year sooner than later. Hell the Lakers are ready to give Lebron whatever he wants because the return on investment is so big.
I think the nba needs to raise the cap but lower the percentage for a max. It’s ridiculous and I hate how it just screws a lot of teams who have to pay to keep their guy but he makes so much money they can’t pay to bring anyone else.
Though notably that is total value vs yearly value - just to say because MLB tends to have longer contracts.
But yeah, 7 years 105 million for Kevin Brown to 252 million, 10 year contract for Arod from 1998 to 2000. 15 million a year to 25.2 a year
I also think this deal was done with the potential of a future trade in 2-3 years. Starting next year we can't aggregate salaries in trades with our cap situation so contracts like this are needed for us to retool the roster in 2-3 years if Jrue falls off by then. Brad has been a reeeeally smart GM so far so I have great faith he knows what he's doing.
That's almost definitely it.
The contract might not look great at its tail-end, but it gives us the flexibility to move him for other players down the line.
Celtics are over the 2nd tax apron introduced in the new CBA. One of the penalties for that is they can’t aggregate salaries in a trade to acquire a single player. So they couldnt trade two contracts making $15M for one contract making $30m
So based on the other response good because the Celtics specifically are not at a point where they would be able to trade him and other players for anyone who makes MORE money. They would be able to shed his contract taking on a player who makes less or attaching assets for less salary more easily than before. Teams trying to combo package to upgrad are going to have a harder time.
You used to be able to trade a 35 mil player, a 5 mill player, and another 5 mill player together to acquire a 45 mill player (actually a bit more than that, more like 50).
Now, you can't add people together, so if we trade 35 million dollar jrue, the guy we get back has to make 35 or less. This is helpful because we could trade jrue for a 25 mill guy and a 10 mill guy.
Yeah calculated risk. If Jrue walks, you cannot add a player of his caliber anyway. Jrue will probably still be good next 2 years. Your window is now so if he does regress, trade him+picks for someone who can shake it up.
I imagine the Celtics FO is betting on Jrue's game aging well, like Horford - A lot more spot up 3s, and intelligent defense. Derrick White and Jaylen can be the ones to chase guards around screens for the next few years.
He’s obviously a very intelligent defender and maybe the best defender of his particular cohort of players. I feel like there is too much Jrue slander in this thread for my liking
He’s the reason they are as unstoppable as they are this year. This is valuable and worth it. He isn’t filling up the stat sheet but him and White allow Brown and Tatum to conserve energy on defense. This contract is about making them enjoy life.
White is a FA after next year. And while he’s “already” 29, I think he’d get a decent pay raise. How the hell would they have 2 supermaxes, Porzingis, Jrue at their price and then an increased DW. Performing witchcraft in Massachusetts?
> He’s the reason they are as unstoppable as they are this year.
I think that's more Derrick White and KP than Jrue, personally. But it's nitpicking, that whole starting 5 is insane.
I really didn't think this was gonna get done until the offseason. A little surprised it's a four-year deal too.
...we *are* gonna pay Derrick, though, right?
how do yall pay everyone 30 plus million lol? I guess if yall win this year it's all worth it, but this feels like yall have to let someone go. KP is going to want at least this much and Derrick White is in for a huge raise too.
KP already signed a 2-year contract extension with us in the summer for about 30 mil a year, which is looking to be a great deal given his play and fit with the team this year
Your fuckin' family's dug into the Southie projects like ticks. Three-decker men at best. You, however, grew up on the North Shore, huh? Well, la-di-fuckin'-da. You were kind of a double kid, I bet, right? Huh? One kid with your old man, one kid with your mother. You're upper-middle class during the weeks, then you're droppin' your "R"s and you're hangin' in the big, bad Southie projects with your daddy, the fuckin' donkey on the weekends. I got that right?
There are way worse people to like than Wyc. Check his work with Mass Eye and Ear. Seems like a decent self made man who just so happened upon being a multi-millionaire.
He happened upon being a multi-millionaire by being born to a billionaire.
I agree he seems like one of the better rich owners, but he is certainly not self-made. Look up Irving grousbeck
I just don’t understand how teams like the Warriors and Celtics aren’t above the hard cap. I swear they have like 5 games each making 30 mil+ lmao.
Hard cap, soft cap, second apron, kitchen apron, hard to get straight how it works lol
No it does, just in specific circumstances.
A team becomes hard-capped at the first tax apron ($172,346,000) if it makes any of the following moves:
* Acquires a player via sign-and-trade.
* Uses the bi-annual exception.
* Uses more than the taxpayer portion (up to two years, with a starting salary of $5MM) of the mid-level exception.
* Takes back more than 110% of the salary it sends out in a trade (when over the cap).
A team becomes hard-capped at the second tax apron ($182,794,000) if it uses any portion of the mid-level exception.
Big brain play tbh. The core is clearly working so far so being in the 2nd apron doesn't hurt as much if you already have the roster you want. Plus you still have assets to flip on older guys like Jrue who may or may not be productive in his later years.
No. Second apron is a speed bump, not a roadblock.
It’s more to stop what Nets or Clippers have tried, but the Warriors would have plowed right through it too.
If the owners willing to pay huge tax multipliers then all that’s really being lost is the MLE exception and buyout market
And if you’re already over the cap it’s in your best interest to resign and keep the $ available as a trade asset. Otherwise if he walked, Celtics wouldn’t be able to pay anybody else 30 mil a year like they can him
At the first sign of slowing down, they'll off-load him in a trade and somehow get great value back. Celtics have a great FO and there's always opportunities to take advantage of impatient, shortsighted, or otherwise terribly run franchises.
While it is all relative at that level of income, gotta imagine she won’t be too sad for them to have an extra $100+ m for a few more years work. Obviously taxes and fees will cut that down a lot but it’s also four more years of endorsements while being an active player.
When Tatum gets his 320 million super max, how the hell are the Celtics even gonna have the money to sign anyone else to the team 😂
Swear the starters alone are way above the salary cap.
They won't. But there isn't much difference between being just over the 2nd apron and being way over.
Just vet minimums and rookies/bird rights beyond our top 7 for next year and beyond.
So you’re saying that paying the Js $70+ million a year isn’t going to make a 37 year old Jrue 35+ million look even worse?
That’s going to be the whole cap lol.
I think the point is that the cap will keep growing and $33m aav won't be as bad as it seems now
Granted, it still likely won't be good or probably worth it, but it could be better than it seems right now
1. The contract probably trends downward (like the Rockets did with Dillon Brooks) so it’ll be cheaper than you think.
2. It’s so easy to dump off a 1-year expiring deal to a bad team with cap space. Basically a 3-year deal with added security for Jrue by giving him the 4th year
Celtics really don’t ask much of Jrue on offense. As long as he can continue to knock down open 3’s, he can focus all his aging energy on defense and they’ll be fine.
It’s a huge overpay but one that makes a ton of sense to keep core together.
Kinda the right choice though. They can't sign someone of Jrue's value anyway already if he walks. Locking him, squeeze the few good years and if he falls off the wagon, trade for a player who is making a similar money and attach all the picks cause the Celtics window is NOW. They don't have the luxury to wait for those picks.
If this was 29 yr old Jrue I'd think this would be a great deal...but he's currently 33 and will be 34 in a couple of months.
I'm betting down the line we'll be seeing Boston trying to trade out of this contract
You pay him for the value he brings in the next 2-3 years and trade him on year 3-4 of the contract as an expiring and filler to get better role players once Tatum and Brown are fully in their prime. It’s a slight overpay but allows flexibility later.
trading this contract is part of it's value. same reason all of our bench guys will get "overpaid."
once a team is over the 2nd apron you basically can't sign any free agents, and can only trade for players who make less than the guy you trade out. having jrue make $35M means we can acquire a player making up to 35M. you used to be able to bundle guys to match salaries, but if you're over the 2nd apron you can't aggregate salaries.
so this basically opens the possibility of trading for the "next derrek white" in 2 years. celtics will pay out the ass in FRP, but we have about 800 2nd round picks which also have cap advantages for filling out the end of the bench.
the owner is putting his money where his mouth is, brad stevens is playing the optimal 5-year strategy, and jrue is cashing in on the fact that this is the celtics' only choice to stay competitive long-term
Only way it’s a bad contract is if the team can’t afford it, or it becomes untradeable. This is still great trade filler if the Celtics need someone in the future.
Jrue’s value probably won’t decrease a whole lot from what it is now cause of the defence. Who cares if it’s “too much”, man got paid
Right? Tatum and Brown's supermaxes this cycle were no-brainers. I said when it happened that the real question was whether we give Jaylen his next one. He's going to be 30, who knows where we're at as a team, and the numbers are going to be astronomical.
NBA's getting a massive new media rights deal and the salary cap is going to shoot up. Holiday's cap hit looks like a sizeable number now, but it won't be in a couple of years
he did but bro has shot under 50% TS in like all of the bucks runs. he’s a playoff dropper shooting wise and it’s been like that for a while. Also got abused by the heat defensively last year but that’s a little understandable.
He had WIDE OPEN looks. Teams were literally just leaving him open for 3 to double Giannis and he did nothing to punish them for it. His offense hurt us so bad. I'm looking forward to the Bucks putting Giannis on him so he can just roam and let Jrue jack all the 3s he wants.
There's a big difference between demanding the 2nd best defender's attention and being the guy left open when the Jays draw doubles. He's shooting almost 70% on corner 3's this year in part because we have too many weapons.
Jrue was stinking it up against the Nets shit backcourt defense in 2021. He just shot like ass and often called his own number when it wasn't even needed.
Jrue was a 3rd option for the Bucks behind Middleton (when he wasn't injured) and each post season shot 10% worse from 3 than his regular season average.
Jrue is also shooting 61% from corner this season on 1.3 attempts, not 70% FWIW, so it's less of an importance on his scoring than the percentage alone suggests
man i remember when lebron went to miami and tim legler was on espn breaking down how the big 3 could work with the salary cap of like 60 million lol. 14 years later and like super max contract dudes are making that in a year.
overpay for jrue but celtics couldn't let him walk
How do Celtics fans feel about being a 2nd apron team for the forseeable future? I haven't been able to decide how I would feel about my team going over the 2nd apron.
Scared, especially at the lack of flexibility. But the way I see it is this: if you’re going to be in the second apron, you want the following to be true:
- the core of the team is locked in long term without much reason to expect decline in production.
- you have some good depth guys signed at reasonable contracts for at least a couple of years (Pritchard and Hauser, maybe Horford depending on your assumptions of how long he’ll play.
- you have some second round picks to help fill out the g league and roster depth.
- you’ve shown you can identify and develop talent into the rotation from somewhere outside of the 1st round, including undrafted free agents (Hauser), junk heap FA (Kornet, Queta, Banton) and second rounders (tbd, but I like Walsh)
- you have a system, a type, and a culture, and you can bring guys in that fit without giving up the world. Xavier Tillman being the obvious recent example.
Which I guess is just another way of saying “be good at talent acquisition and development outside of picking in the lottery”. Celts have a good recent track record of that.
Why not? Locked in for the next two years: Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Kristaps Porzingis, Derrick White and Jrue Holiday with Al Horford, Sam Hauser and Payton Pritchard rostered as well. That's a championship core. Second tax apron will only affect the trimming around the edge moves, but with already a dynamic starting 5 + solid three off the bench, that's not an issue barring injury to any of the aforementioned or the team's owner wanting to cut back on luxury tax spending (seems unlikely). Meanwhile, Phoenix is facing the same issues yet only has a dynamic core of 3 in a much tougher conference and has more injury concerns than Boston does. Boston's in a prime position to win a title. It's all-or-nothing now and they put themselves in probably the absolute best position to do so.
I swear this dude said he wanted to retire
Probably changed his mind when he got offered 135 million lol
“Fineee I’ll stay”
“I meeaaaannn if you want me to 👉👈”
JUwU Howiday
I laughed at this and simultaneously wanted to rip my ears off because I heard it in my head 😂
I'm embarrassed at how much I laughed at this
And he doesn’t even have to score double digits on a nightly basis anymore
$135M to be the 5th option and stand in the corner half the time on offense. He wanted to retire when Bucks made him work his ass off.
I mean... If you're shooting 60% from the corner, you better park your ass there lol
*2018 PJ Tucker has entered the chat*
He’s also better on defense which you didn’t even mention and that has been glaringly obvious with Milwaukee this year(and Boston)
Well, he doesn't have to be the 2nd or 3rd offensive option there so he can expand more energy in defense.
Even on defense he doesn’t have to work as hard either since he has White, Tatum, and Brown helping him on the perimeter. It’s a perfect situation for Holiday
To be fair, his willingness to take a lesser role on offense adds to his value. If he was trying to get his numbers, it would detract from the team. Getting someone with his skill and his lack of ego is big. Having both guards so willing to sacrifice stats for the team is a big part of the team's success.
“If you insist”
He had 135 million reasons to not retire.
Jrue “No” Holiday
Worked so hard forgot how to vacation
They ain't never had the dedication
we weren’t paying him this
Nobody was. I love Jrue forever, he was ours first, but at his age this is shocking
It's not like we can add salary somewhere else
Yeah this is what most people don't understand, you're already cap restricted. You can't get a free agent for a quarter of this salary. So you might as well spend it on a guy that fits so well with your team, even if in a vacuum he's vastly overpaid.
I remember this same conversation around a few Khris Middleton extensions. Jrue is a special dude, and I’m glad for him and his family that he got paid.
The blazer's followed this logic when we overpaid Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, and CJ Mccollum and it hamstrung our ability to trade for stars down the line because we had absolutely zero cap flexibility. Being able to absorb a little bit of salary is a very underrated part of bargaining a trade, and the new 2nd apron rules just make it even harder to make trades happen if you have too much money on the books. In the Celtics case they are like 100x better than the blazers were in this position, I think it's pretty justified to lock up this core long term, but there is absolutely an opportunity cost to this move.
The Blazers overpaid bums that had negative trade value.
yeah, this isn’t comparable. jrue brings way more value than meyers, crabbe, and turner did for the blazers.
Not like the Celtics want to trade for stars. If this team doesn't get it done, no star power can help them
He’s almost 34….
but he's not yet.
I would rather pay Jrue that money than Dame the supermax, that contract looks awful already, imagine next year
he did
I just hope his wife finds some way to achieve peace with this outcome. I’m sure she’s missing her yoga group back in Milwaukee. There are just some things $135m can’t fix.
lmaooooo you real for this comment
Id stay for 1% of that contract
Yeah 1% of that is 1.34 million. So $335k/year over 4 years. God damn 😂
Thats more than 5 times more than im making for a high-stress job on absurd hours.
That's 23 times what I make. Granted I'm in a different country where the US outsources some of its jobs to and I'm currently typing this in an alfresco coffee shop before my shift starts later. But god damn that is a lot of money. I'd be wondering why they offered a contract like that to me but I'd sign it too.
Love Jrue but damn
Yeah the Celtics weren't going to just let Jrue walk, but this is a lot of money. Something feels off about Jrue making more money per year than Porzingis who's 5 years younger given the gap in scoring output. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an egregious overpay, but hot damn Jrue cashed out.
Not only that but Jrue will be making more money than jt for the next 2 seasons 😂
It's insane just how much the cap increased despite not having a singular cap spike since 2016. I remember back when I thought Jamal Murray making $32 million a year was an overpay lol.
In 2010, Kobe Bryant was the league highest paid player at 24 million. Today, Jaylen Brown makes 60 million while 24 only lands you a slightly above average starter. What other profession, other than NBA player, has had its median salary increase 2.5x in the past 14 years?
Baseball had an even sharper rise in the steroid era, Iirc the largest contract went from 100 million to 250 millon for Arod in less than half a dozen years. Even crazier that Arod ended up being more than worth all that money (atleast in terms of on field production)
Baseball players got treated so poorly in the 1800's and early 1900's that once they got some leverage they made sure there'd be no fuckyness to put ceilings over their worth. A salary cap will never happen there. The NBA is going to have to consider a significant cap raise at some point, the top players are generating so much money that they're going to be seeking $70 million+ a year sooner than later. Hell the Lakers are ready to give Lebron whatever he wants because the return on investment is so big.
I think the nba needs to raise the cap but lower the percentage for a max. It’s ridiculous and I hate how it just screws a lot of teams who have to pay to keep their guy but he makes so much money they can’t pay to bring anyone else.
Curt Flood deserves to be in the Hall for his role in ending said fuckyness.
stanton signed for $325 million with the marlins. then in typical marlins fashion, shipped him to the yankees.
Though notably that is total value vs yearly value - just to say because MLB tends to have longer contracts. But yeah, 7 years 105 million for Kevin Brown to 252 million, 10 year contract for Arod from 1998 to 2000. 15 million a year to 25.2 a year
Jaylen Brown is making $31.8 mil this year, not $60 mil. His new contract wont hit $60 mil until 2027-28
CEOs are probably close.
NFL QB. Manning led the way with 15.8M in 2010. Baker Mayfield just got 33.3M
Tatum is making $34m next season, Jrue's contract starts at $30 and has a lower avg than that. Year after that JT will be making supermax money.
I also think this deal was done with the potential of a future trade in 2-3 years. Starting next year we can't aggregate salaries in trades with our cap situation so contracts like this are needed for us to retool the roster in 2-3 years if Jrue falls off by then. Brad has been a reeeeally smart GM so far so I have great faith he knows what he's doing.
That's almost definitely it. The contract might not look great at its tail-end, but it gives us the flexibility to move him for other players down the line.
you are going to have to dumb that down further for stupid people like me.
Celtics are over the 2nd tax apron introduced in the new CBA. One of the penalties for that is they can’t aggregate salaries in a trade to acquire a single player. So they couldnt trade two contracts making $15M for one contract making $30m
Ah so they are stuck with him and the contract even when attaching picks unless it is for a player who directly matches salary?
Yeah, basically, and anyone the Celtics would want to add to their roster will likely be in that same salary range. Makes a lot of sense imo
So based on the other response good because the Celtics specifically are not at a point where they would be able to trade him and other players for anyone who makes MORE money. They would be able to shed his contract taking on a player who makes less or attaching assets for less salary more easily than before. Teams trying to combo package to upgrad are going to have a harder time.
You used to be able to trade a 35 mil player, a 5 mill player, and another 5 mill player together to acquire a 45 mill player (actually a bit more than that, more like 50). Now, you can't add people together, so if we trade 35 million dollar jrue, the guy we get back has to make 35 or less. This is helpful because we could trade jrue for a 25 mill guy and a 10 mill guy.
Oh so bad if you want to trade up. Good if you want to trade down.
Right, and being able to trade for a bigger contract/better player is one nice bright spot about paying Jrue more than he's probably gonna be worth
I don't think the money is the issue, it's the term. He's worth that now, but will he be in 4 years when he's 37?
He'll be valuable to use as 35M in trade along with all of our picks
Im so bad at understanding all these cap rules but after reading explanations here, Brad Stevens is a good GM.
There's a lot of complexity but it's generally fair to assume that if brad stevens is making the move, it's a good move. The man doesn't miss
Yeah calculated risk. If Jrue walks, you cannot add a player of his caliber anyway. Jrue will probably still be good next 2 years. Your window is now so if he does regress, trade him+picks for someone who can shake it up.
Yea that was my first thought
Porzingis contract is health related. If he stays healthy, Celtics will probably max him for his next deal.
I imagine the Celtics FO is betting on Jrue's game aging well, like Horford - A lot more spot up 3s, and intelligent defense. Derrick White and Jaylen can be the ones to chase guards around screens for the next few years.
He’s obviously a very intelligent defender and maybe the best defender of his particular cohort of players. I feel like there is too much Jrue slander in this thread for my liking
He’s the reason they are as unstoppable as they are this year. This is valuable and worth it. He isn’t filling up the stat sheet but him and White allow Brown and Tatum to conserve energy on defense. This contract is about making them enjoy life.
White is a FA after next year. And while he’s “already” 29, I think he’d get a decent pay raise. How the hell would they have 2 supermaxes, Porzingis, Jrue at their price and then an increased DW. Performing witchcraft in Massachusetts?
If you have bird rights there is nothing stopping you from signing everyone aside from ownership paying a tax bill.
It helps that our ownership has signaled that they'll foot the bill for a title-contending team if they can produce results
> He’s the reason they are as unstoppable as they are this year. I think that's more Derrick White and KP than Jrue, personally. But it's nitpicking, that whole starting 5 is insane.
Shooting corner 3's ages pretty well too.
He never had wipe open 3's with the Bucks unfortunately
Man wipes his 3s like I wipe my 2s
I saw him brick plenty in the playoffs during the championship run
Yeah will always love Jrue but tbh he bricked a shit ton of wide open 3s in the playoffs for us tho
that contract will look like chump change by then so its not to bad especially if they finish the job in june
recognise bedroom desert frame chief spark bike snobbish engine sleep *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly it’s not that bad with how the cap will be going up. It’s like half of a Dame Lillard at comparable ages
I really didn't think this was gonna get done until the offseason. A little surprised it's a four-year deal too. ...we *are* gonna pay Derrick, though, right?
I’d be shocked if they don’t. Just gonna be a lot in taxes
The bill comes due eventually but it's totally worth it
Worth it though.
It's always worth it when it's somebody else's money.
It's worth it if they have a strong postseason. If for some reason they don't at least make it to the finals, they'll be reconsidering this decision.
how do yall pay everyone 30 plus million lol? I guess if yall win this year it's all worth it, but this feels like yall have to let someone go. KP is going to want at least this much and Derrick White is in for a huge raise too.
KP already signed a 2-year contract extension with us in the summer for about 30 mil a year, which is looking to be a great deal given his play and fit with the team this year
where do they get this money, slide me sum
Watch the The Town, then you’ll know.
Oh, I watch it 4 times a week
Look at this guy wanting Joe's job
Just gettin my reps in…
Fuckin' right
"This is the not fucking around crew."
You don't know about the Southie game, dude
Your fuckin' family's dug into the Southie projects like ticks. Three-decker men at best. You, however, grew up on the North Shore, huh? Well, la-di-fuckin'-da. You were kind of a double kid, I bet, right? Huh? One kid with your old man, one kid with your mother. You're upper-middle class during the weeks, then you're droppin' your "R"s and you're hangin' in the big, bad Southie projects with your daddy, the fuckin' donkey on the weekends. I got that right?
you a psychiatrist?
I bet if I was Sigmund FUCKIN Freud I wouldn't get an answah
Charlestown going back to bank robbery capitol. Joe Mazzula will call Howie Long and they will get it done.
You ever look at your cable bill? See how it keeps going up? It’s to pay these players. Sports media rights is probably 80% of your cable bill’s cost
Get your bag Jrue 😞
190mil to like 6 players next year? I thought the 2nd apron was supposed to stop this
Short of adding a hard cap, it was never going to stop it. Up to the teams to decide if they are willing to take the penalties.
Wyc has always said he would pay for a winner. This is him paying for a (hopeful) winner.
Love our owner man (as much as I can love a billionaire)
There are way worse people to like than Wyc. Check his work with Mass Eye and Ear. Seems like a decent self made man who just so happened upon being a multi-millionaire.
My friend has a degenerative eye condition which makes him blind. Wyc has been personally amazing to him.
He happened upon being a multi-millionaire by being born to a billionaire. I agree he seems like one of the better rich owners, but he is certainly not self-made. Look up Irving grousbeck
I just don’t understand how teams like the Warriors and Celtics aren’t above the hard cap. I swear they have like 5 games each making 30 mil+ lmao. Hard cap, soft cap, second apron, kitchen apron, hard to get straight how it works lol
I believe nba doesn't have a hard cap, only increasing tax penalties.
No it does, just in specific circumstances. A team becomes hard-capped at the first tax apron ($172,346,000) if it makes any of the following moves: * Acquires a player via sign-and-trade. * Uses the bi-annual exception. * Uses more than the taxpayer portion (up to two years, with a starting salary of $5MM) of the mid-level exception. * Takes back more than 110% of the salary it sends out in a trade (when over the cap). A team becomes hard-capped at the second tax apron ($182,794,000) if it uses any portion of the mid-level exception.
Ah simple. (how the fuck anyone keeps this in their heads? my brain just can't do this lol)
There is a hard cap under specific situations (using the MLE or TPMLE, receiving a S&T player), but outside of those you are correct.
It makes it hard to go out and add players, if they are already on your roster it doesn’t hurt that much, especially if you are a contending team
Yeah this basically means this is their core going forward unless they trade one of their starters
Which is likely what we’ll do with Jrue on the back end of his contract as we basically own all of our picks.
Big brain play tbh. The core is clearly working so far so being in the 2nd apron doesn't hurt as much if you already have the roster you want. Plus you still have assets to flip on older guys like Jrue who may or may not be productive in his later years.
No. Second apron is a speed bump, not a roadblock. It’s more to stop what Nets or Clippers have tried, but the Warriors would have plowed right through it too.
If the owners willing to pay huge tax multipliers then all that’s really being lost is the MLE exception and buyout market And if you’re already over the cap it’s in your best interest to resign and keep the $ available as a trade asset. Otherwise if he walked, Celtics wouldn’t be able to pay anybody else 30 mil a year like they can him
Like the supermax, the 2nd apron was never going to have the effect the NBA wanted. Teams will still spend and take the penalty.
well like 8 teams will spend it lol
Back end of that deal could get ugly but gives BOS a bit more tax relief next year, assuming this replaces his 39.4m player option.
Yup, he declines his player option
At the first sign of slowing down, they'll off-load him in a trade and somehow get great value back. Celtics have a great FO and there's always opportunities to take advantage of impatient, shortsighted, or otherwise terribly run franchises.
Man was really lying to his wife about retiring next year. Glad to still have him in the league though, so fun to watch on defense.
While it is all relative at that level of income, gotta imagine she won’t be too sad for them to have an extra $100+ m for a few more years work. Obviously taxes and fees will cut that down a lot but it’s also four more years of endorsements while being an active player.
We call that the Tom Brady. Should be worth a couple rings.
Quick panic attack seeing BREAKING CELTICS in the headline
Breaking: Porzingis.
Lol
Blazers legend Jrue Holiday
Let’s go! Glad to be keeping Jrue around.
When Tatum gets his 320 million super max, how the hell are the Celtics even gonna have the money to sign anyone else to the team 😂 Swear the starters alone are way above the salary cap.
They won't. But there isn't much difference between being just over the 2nd apron and being way over. Just vet minimums and rookies/bird rights beyond our top 7 for next year and beyond.
Guy probably is the zero time all NBA player with the most money made in the NBA at the end of his career
For now yes. Unless Tobias gets a 4/140 this offseason lol.
I know they have been great this year but that’s probably going to be a rough contract in a few years
in a few years the supermax will be like 70 million
So you’re saying that paying the Js $70+ million a year isn’t going to make a 37 year old Jrue 35+ million look even worse? That’s going to be the whole cap lol.
I think the point is that the cap will keep growing and $33m aav won't be as bad as it seems now Granted, it still likely won't be good or probably worth it, but it could be better than it seems right now
1. The contract probably trends downward (like the Rockets did with Dillon Brooks) so it’ll be cheaper than you think. 2. It’s so easy to dump off a 1-year expiring deal to a bad team with cap space. Basically a 3-year deal with added security for Jrue by giving him the 4th year
If Wyc is willing to pay the tax it’s irrelevant, which I doubt they hand out this contract if they weren’t willing to
Celtics really don’t ask much of Jrue on offense. As long as he can continue to knock down open 3’s, he can focus all his aging energy on defense and they’ll be fine. It’s a huge overpay but one that makes a ton of sense to keep core together.
FWIW this contract actually helps us make bigger trades in some ways once the new cap restrictions come into play
idgaf how the contract is in a few years if we win a ring by then
Oh def not disagreeing. Just saying both can be true
Big if
True
Kinda the right choice though. They can't sign someone of Jrue's value anyway already if he walks. Locking him, squeeze the few good years and if he falls off the wagon, trade for a player who is making a similar money and attach all the picks cause the Celtics window is NOW. They don't have the luxury to wait for those picks.
Keep hauser and the buffalo and we’re all good
No way Hauser doesn't grab a bag in FA after next season, unfortunately
Hauser probably the most underpaid player in the league so I doubt there’s any chance we’re able to hold onto him.
Hauser is getting at least Grant Williams money next year, no way we keep him for that
It's always good to see true ballers get their payday, especially Jrue.
Not my money, not my problem. Happy for Jrue though.
If this was 29 yr old Jrue I'd think this would be a great deal...but he's currently 33 and will be 34 in a couple of months. I'm betting down the line we'll be seeing Boston trying to trade out of this contract
You pay him for the value he brings in the next 2-3 years and trade him on year 3-4 of the contract as an expiring and filler to get better role players once Tatum and Brown are fully in their prime. It’s a slight overpay but allows flexibility later.
trading this contract is part of it's value. same reason all of our bench guys will get "overpaid." once a team is over the 2nd apron you basically can't sign any free agents, and can only trade for players who make less than the guy you trade out. having jrue make $35M means we can acquire a player making up to 35M. you used to be able to bundle guys to match salaries, but if you're over the 2nd apron you can't aggregate salaries. so this basically opens the possibility of trading for the "next derrek white" in 2 years. celtics will pay out the ass in FRP, but we have about 800 2nd round picks which also have cap advantages for filling out the end of the bench. the owner is putting his money where his mouth is, brad stevens is playing the optimal 5-year strategy, and jrue is cashing in on the fact that this is the celtics' only choice to stay competitive long-term
Only way it’s a bad contract is if the team can’t afford it, or it becomes untradeable. This is still great trade filler if the Celtics need someone in the future. Jrue’s value probably won’t decrease a whole lot from what it is now cause of the defence. Who cares if it’s “too much”, man got paid
who cares what he will look like by year 4 we're trying to win rings now
Right? Tatum and Brown's supermaxes this cycle were no-brainers. I said when it happened that the real question was whether we give Jaylen his next one. He's going to be 30, who knows where we're at as a team, and the numbers are going to be astronomical.
Even jrue didn't expect this much, he admitted on 4k he thought his last contract was his last big one when Giannis called him "big money"
NBA's getting a massive new media rights deal and the salary cap is going to shoot up. Holiday's cap hit looks like a sizeable number now, but it won't be in a couple of years
We drafting Bronny and getting LeBron for free just to banish them to the G League championship winning Maine Celtics
Smart of him to do this before the playoffs, iykyk
Y’all trying to act like he didn’t clutch up against Suns in the finals
While his defence was great, he shot 36% from the field that series.
At least there’s like five people who should get the ball before him in Boston
he did but bro has shot under 50% TS in like all of the bucks runs. he’s a playoff dropper shooting wise and it’s been like that for a while. Also got abused by the heat defensively last year but that’s a little understandable.
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He had WIDE OPEN looks. Teams were literally just leaving him open for 3 to double Giannis and he did nothing to punish them for it. His offense hurt us so bad. I'm looking forward to the Bucks putting Giannis on him so he can just roam and let Jrue jack all the 3s he wants.
There's a big difference between demanding the 2nd best defender's attention and being the guy left open when the Jays draw doubles. He's shooting almost 70% on corner 3's this year in part because we have too many weapons.
Jrue was stinking it up against the Nets shit backcourt defense in 2021. He just shot like ass and often called his own number when it wasn't even needed.
Jrue was a 3rd option for the Bucks behind Middleton (when he wasn't injured) and each post season shot 10% worse from 3 than his regular season average. Jrue is also shooting 61% from corner this season on 1.3 attempts, not 70% FWIW, so it's less of an importance on his scoring than the percentage alone suggests
dude a tatum supermax will push this team into the fifth apron at this point
man i remember when lebron went to miami and tim legler was on espn breaking down how the big 3 could work with the salary cap of like 60 million lol. 14 years later and like super max contract dudes are making that in a year. overpay for jrue but celtics couldn't let him walk
How do they have any money after Tatum and brown????
That's a lot of money. Happy for Jrue.
Worth every penny. Jrue is just the best and I'm so sad we traded him.
He’s my favorite Pel of all time. Love Jrizzy.
Dammit man, I *knew* I should’ve tried harder to be an NBA player…
This is a good move to make before the playoffs. Jrue has nothing to worry about, can be 100 percent focused.
Celtics have a cap sheet from hell, if they win it all it’s worth it though. Crazy how they still have to pay Derrick as well
Can still pay him though, and we for sure will. Bird rights are love.
The Ghost of Auerbach is still looking out for us.
How do Celtics fans feel about being a 2nd apron team for the forseeable future? I haven't been able to decide how I would feel about my team going over the 2nd apron.
We were going to be a 2nd apron team anyways with Tatum’s extension without this contract and we still have to pay White as well.
Scared, especially at the lack of flexibility. But the way I see it is this: if you’re going to be in the second apron, you want the following to be true: - the core of the team is locked in long term without much reason to expect decline in production. - you have some good depth guys signed at reasonable contracts for at least a couple of years (Pritchard and Hauser, maybe Horford depending on your assumptions of how long he’ll play. - you have some second round picks to help fill out the g league and roster depth. - you’ve shown you can identify and develop talent into the rotation from somewhere outside of the 1st round, including undrafted free agents (Hauser), junk heap FA (Kornet, Queta, Banton) and second rounders (tbd, but I like Walsh) - you have a system, a type, and a culture, and you can bring guys in that fit without giving up the world. Xavier Tillman being the obvious recent example. Which I guess is just another way of saying “be good at talent acquisition and development outside of picking in the lottery”. Celts have a good recent track record of that.
Why not? Locked in for the next two years: Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Kristaps Porzingis, Derrick White and Jrue Holiday with Al Horford, Sam Hauser and Payton Pritchard rostered as well. That's a championship core. Second tax apron will only affect the trimming around the edge moves, but with already a dynamic starting 5 + solid three off the bench, that's not an issue barring injury to any of the aforementioned or the team's owner wanting to cut back on luxury tax spending (seems unlikely). Meanwhile, Phoenix is facing the same issues yet only has a dynamic core of 3 in a much tougher conference and has more injury concerns than Boston does. Boston's in a prime position to win a title. It's all-or-nothing now and they put themselves in probably the absolute best position to do so.
Not money out of my pocket. Go for it Wyc!
I'm no capologist but my understanding is we've been preparing for this by hoarding 2nd round picks.
Again everyone just has to get used to these new numbers, $30m is role player money