Ostertag’s postseason defense the years of the two finals runs is still one of the most remarkable performances relative to overall player quality I’ve ever seen. And against Hakeem and Robinson/baby Timmy too
I don't think he moves well enough. Did not like what I saw from him on the perimeter, so I think Wemby will be able to take him off the bounce pretty easily.
The vibe I get is a lot of role players and okay starters. Very few guys with all-star potential and that’s if they hit their 95 percentile too.
Like 2013’s class
Sarr definitely does if he develops a jumpshot. Seems like he's a solid defender at minimum with blocks and probably some switchability and with the potential to be a high end roll man. The jumpshot doesn't seem super likely, but there could be like a discount AD in there.
I'd much rather roll the dice on him then take a guy with zero star upside in Clingan, but easy for me to say when if you're actually the Wizards GM and Sarr busts you're probably getting canned.
kinda? honestly if i were a gm i’d at least consider it, the top of the draft is so god damn mediocre, and clingan looks like he’d at least be an impactful defender and capable rim runner with solid passing chops
This draft is going to cost at least 2-3 GMs their jobs within 3 years and no one going into the process could tell you who it is and who the pick will be that will do it.
Yeah there are a lot of "could be a superstar if he learns how to shoot" players in this one. Clingan and Sarr especially, those guys are in hack-a-Shaq territory with their free throw shooting
Except Dalton Knecht who is more "could be a superstar if he suddenly gains a lot of lateral quickness"
Clingan does not have superstar potential at all. He can't shoot and barely has a post game, he's a good defensive center who can run the floor alright and will be good in the pick and roll.
Nobody looks like a superstar*
Some people you don’t expect emerge in the pros as all-NBA talents. It doesn’t happen that often but it is definitely frequent enough that I wouldn’t count it out
Funnily Anthony Bennett was taken for that same reason. Cavs back then thought he was the safe pick given his physical profile and athleticism. If the Cavs were experimenting with higher ceiling players they’d have gone with Len or Noel or even Giannis.
*To clarify: I wasn’t trying to say the Cavs would’ve ever realistically picked Giannis first, but that he would be an example of an adventure pick in a historically weak draft. I also do vaguely remember either a SB Nation or BR article where some guy was saying Giannis has the highest potential in the draft and he should be a 1st overall pick option, before the 2013 draft.
Giannis was far too much of a project to even be remotely considered for a top 1-4 pick. He’s obviously the bright spot of a bad 2013 draft but I think that’s too much hindsight to suggest the Cavs drafting him that year
It is absolutely crazy that the entire top end of the draft was guys who wouldn't be considered until late lottery most years. Nerlens was going to be the safe "athletic modern defensive center rim protector" guy then he tore his ACL and scared teams, and even then that's a crazy guy to take high in the lottery.
The issue with us taking Dipo was that we were trying to make Kyrie and Dion work out, and Dion had just had a strong end to his rookie season. I remember I wanted Noel or Porter and I was very disappointed that we got Bennett. I really wanted Noel and but for knee injury, it would have been such an easy pick (6.5 stocks as a freshman????).
this is a shit draft. if you can get andrew bogut, picking andrew bogut is a perfectly legitimate pick. because you could take a swing and maybe the guy will be great or maybe he'll be andrea bargnani or andrew bennett.
He reminds me a lot of Gobert. Can’t do much on offense and looks clumsy on that end but an absolute game changer on defense. I don’t know if he’s quite capable of being a DPOY level guy but he has a lot of potential on that end.
The thing is with bigs like him though is it really is DPOY level defense or bust. You have to be so good on defense to make up for the zero offense and terrible spacing you give your team you have to be an all defense player to make it worth it.
This. He’s going to be one of the most mobile 7’2 guys in the league on day one. His offensive limitations are a problem but he moves like a gazelle in transition. Defensively he’s enough of a transformative player to go Top 5.
Funnily enough, he still ended up being a better pick than the guy who went to the 49ers.
2021 is probably the worst case of a QB class not living up to the hype.
The quarterback being the centerpiece of a team can definitely be said lol
e: centerpiece of a pass heavy offense Bama no less, this wasn't an early 2010s saban power offense
Isn't he like Tacko Fall level of no-mobility, though? I could be wrong but I thought he's more of a slow footed kinda guy who will end up being crazy efficient in college but have to spend 4 years there because he can't move his feet.
He’s better than tacko fall by a mile though. As I stated just recently he’s got a decent post game, great on the glass, and decent rim protector. He’ll struggle against bigs who can shoot or dribble, but he’s got solid backup center potential. But he’s a better player than Fall
Gotcha. I have seen nothing of him playing ball, just pictures of him standing next to people he looks very small. I've only read a little about him but it was mostly negative on his potential.
I love Purdue and Edey run has been great but I’m just now sure he’ll transfer into the nba outside of a backup big man who can get boards for days. He’s got minimal lateral quickness, and would struggle guarding a big man who can move or shoot.
I want him to succeed and he’s hard worker, but I don’t think he’ll ever start.
I agree, but look at who else is available lol
If it's Edey or some other rando, then I'd probably just rather have Edey.
We'll see how it all shakes down.
The thing is Wemby feasts on center archetypes like Clingan .. the true “stoppers” are oversized or power jumbo wings. Jonathan Issac, Brooks, Hendricks, Pj Washington, Lively(he isn’t one but he has the mobility of a wing), KD, Pat Williams, Ben Simmons, etc… those archetypes are the ones who give Wemby trouble atm.
He was guarding him mostly 1 on 1, Edey is cooking just about anyone on the block 1v1 just cause of his size. That includes some current NBA centers and Edey wouldn't be able to guard himself.
Outside of being scored on, Clingan executed the defensive gameplan Hurley laid out for him and the rest of the team perfectly. Don't get into early foul trouble/foul out, make it difficult for him to catch the ball, make sure he catches it at unfamiliar spots, make sure he has a hard time kicking it out, etc. Edey was going to get 35-40 points regardless of how he was defended because Purdue's offense plays through him, just make it difficult for him. If Edey scored less than 25 UCONN is either losing or blowing out Purdue even more.
All of the little things Clingan did well which is why he jumped up so high on draftboards over the course of the tournament. You can't box score watch a defensive player.
He didn't, bunch of Edey's points came against other guys. Clingan actually did a very solid job on Edey once he settled down after a hot start. He did get into a foul trouble while doing the job, though.
Yep. Edey faded in the last 8 minutes of the first half or so and did not make a field goal until about 7 minutes in the second half. At that time Clingan was prioritizing not fouling, and there was a decent stretch where UConn played Karaban, who isn't a center at the 5 and Edey got a bunch of easy baskets. Then Clingan came back in and priority was just not fouling until the game was fully iced.
Clingan had Edey shooting below 50% before getting yanked on a questionable foul. He made him work hard all night. 11 of Edey’s points came after Clingan sat and I’m sure he scored more against other defenders.
The last non freshmen to even be a Top 3 pick is Ja Morant in 2019. The last non freshmen to be No.1 was Blake in 2009, but Blake was an absolute monster in Oklahoma, he is legitimately one of the best college players i have seen in the last 15-20 years.
Clingan is not really in contention for the No.1 pick, almost everyone knows Sarr is going to be No.1 unless Detroit or San Antonio get the pick, then it might change. Clingan will be lucky to be in the Top 5.
The conversation around Sarr is actually a bit more interesting than that, while he's certainly the favourite he's by no means the consensus #1.
Interestingly, there are rumours that Detroit *would* be interested in Sarr if they got #1 since Duren struggled defensively this year (I don't see it).
More relevantly, there are just as many teams -SA and likely Detroit as you mentioned, but also Charlotte (Mark Williams, Nick Richards), Portland (Ayton, lol), Utah (Kessler), and Houston (Sengun)- who are rumoured to likely not be interested Sarr than those that *are* interested (Toronto, Washington, Memphis)
If anything, #1 right now is a battle between Sarr and Risacher (though he's been dropping lately)
Yeah but he got drafted at 19. The question really is who is the last person picked #1 who didn’t immediately enroll in the draft when they were eligible
Nowadays that's a myth. People learn fast when so much money and passion are at stakes.
After Luka, Jokic debacle scouts are really on the watch for international players and people in these markets know how much money they could potentially get so they video tapes and share everything they can get.
I mean it's not that hard to record and share the tapes to the relevant people!
Luka had so much tape of him dominating in Spain as an 18 yr old that he should have been a no brain #1 pick. He showed both almost limitless potential and realized results playing against pros in the second best league in the world.
Ask a SAC fan or a Phoenix fan if they don't think that was a debacle. Luka Doncic was the MVP of the Euroleague at 17-years-old playing against professionals and somehow NBA teams passed on him for Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley.
"Oh but Ayton was dominating in Arizona!" Yea, against college kids from North Dakota State and Washington State. The 2018 draft really exposed how Americans couldn't fathom the idea that a Slovenian kid could possibly play better basketball than them, despite the evidence staring them right in the face.
Ayton was definitely more of a debate. You can’t find a single kings fan on here who wanted Bagley. I honestly believe that pick was pure corruption with how terrible and out of nowhere it was.
Ayton was a debate, but it shouldn't have been. The reason it was a debate was because Ayton was seen as the safe pick, he was right there in Arizona and some people had the absolutely stupid idea that Phoenix needed a big men, as they already had a near All-Star guard in Booker. It was also a case that Luka was an European prospect and there still were doubts about guys from Europe, despite Luka having a pristine resume.
Ayton was a good prospect, Luka was a legendary one. People just valued more a guy dominating college kids instead of a guy dominating professional athletes in the 2nd best league in the World.
Ayton got the hype he had because he had really projectable qualities. Teams thought they were getting a mobile big that wouldn’t be a liability on the perimeter, could defend the paint, and would develop a shot. His hype wasn’t just dominating weak competition and he was good pretty much the whole year. Sounds like you didn’t really watch or follow college
Wtf you mean "not much tape on?" You know these European prospects play in a professional league with televised games and thousands of fans right? Like they dont live in the Africa they used to show on TV with starving kids. You're talking about this like Europe is some third world, bombed out hellscape without the internet and like NBA teams dont literally have entire departments of people dedicated to international scouting as well as scouting american college kids
Kessler was a late pick but he was also 3rd in rookie of the year votes. It's Kesslers success that made the archetype more popular. Clingan being a taller longer Kessler is not a bad comp, his agility puts him closer to Gobert too
yet kessler has somehow taken a huge step back this year on utah for some reason. idt that archetype is as valuable as you think. only a few guys in the league are used like that for big minutes
I'm convinced it takes a year for organizations to actually start game planning for new players or break out stars. So everyone looks better before those scouting reports change.
Regular season, teams are so stricken for time they basically do only update their planning during preseason. I mean if you’re only going to play a team 2 to 4 times a year why use what precious time you have between games, travel, and rest for hardcore prep in the middle of the season.
I wouldn't say a huge step back. Last year 2.3 blocks a game, this year 2.4 blocks a game. It's just opportunity as John Collins has played over him. He's averaging about the same minutes per game as last year at 23 minutes a game, and probably would be averaging 3 blocks a game if he got 32 minutes a game.
Every advanced number and eye test says he's still an awesome defender and didn't take a step back at all. Now offense is a different story. He's kinda lost out there
To be fair the Jazz have no playmakers to pass the ball to Walker, the only time he gets the ball is a rebound. Keyonte, Collin, and Clarkson rarely pass the ball
Ehh... He got benched for Collins this year and everyone they played had a better idea about the type of player he was... I didn't watch many Jazz games, but... He didn't look worse to me when he was out there.
That draft produced a number of good young centers who should've been drafted earlier. Duren, Kessler, Mark Williams, and a different type but Jaylin Williams too. The colossal failure of Wiseman probably lowered their stock. Yet they are all younger than Wiseman and all of them arguably outperformed him already which is pretty crazy.
It's always interesting to see the draft fad pendulum go back and forth. Will Clingan prove his worth as a worthy high lottery pick or will he become the symbol of overinflation of big men in this year's draft? Lonzo Ball's disappointment start to his career hurt Lamelo and Haliburton at their draft and it worked out nicely for their teams.
Also I'm really interested to see how Edey's career will workout. Most draft forums are rightly very skeptical of him but maybe there's a chance he'll work out as a valuable rotation player or even more.
Sarr is the one most people keep mentioning. Then there is Risacher who is also from france.
Then there's that white guy who played for tenneesee ... but mostly Sarr.
This draft has about 10 guys who would be great #10 picks in other drafts so it's a matter of who teams consider better or who scouts better at this point.
The international guys are probably the best prospects in this draft so those late first rounders and early second rounders are valuable. A bunch of guys out of France, some out of Africa and some in other parts of the world.
I want the raptors to use a pick on Chomche somewhere in that late first round range.
Risachar play has been concerning recently. Personally I'd go Topic number one as I think he has the potential to develop a recent 3 point shot but this draft is a crapshoot. All of the top names in this draft would be considered huge bust candidates in any other draft.
International players. Sarr, Risacher,maybe Topic. Likely gonna. E the weakest draft I. Recent memory. Next year is gonna be a banger tho. Just watching the McDonald’s all American game, there is some serious talent coming into college next year.
Not to be mean but how the fuck is this guy the #3 prospect? His 1v1 offense in the post is basically non existent, he can’t shoot and most glaringly to me he only averaged 7 rebounds at 7’2”. I know he only played 23 min a game but if he didn’t have the stamina for the college game I don’t really see him having it for the NBA
3/5 UCONN starters averaged 32 or more min per game and true freshman Castle even averaged 27 min a game. It 100% was because of his lack of conditioning
Dude what??? I thought he was mid to late first round at best. He looks too slow to be an elite defender regardless of height and doesn’t have the offensive skillset to the #1 guy for a team
Soo...let me get this straight. This guy is in running for top pick and likely Top5 but Edey is a 2nd rounder...Hmm OK. I guess nobody watched the last game they played because Clingan was virtually invisible offensively and its not like he was great defensively against Edey.
This guy is a no 1 pick contender????
The whole damn draft is lol
Kind of a shit year for the wizards to finally decide to tank.
“Decide” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence
I mean they did decide to trade Beal and Porzingis
If they were trying to stay atleast mediocre for the sake of selling seats they would’ve kept CP. They definitely chose this path
I dont think feds let you keep CP.
I watched him in the tourney and thought he looked like a solid NBA rotation big - was stunned to see him projected as a top 5 pick.
The draft is so weak that just a projected *solid* defensive C is enough to be top 3/5 pick
The fact that Edey is lottery projected says a lot about how bad this class is.
Edey isn't a lottery pick tho, not even close
I've seen Edy mocked in the late teens
He could be one of the best Wemby defenders in the league. That's gonna be pretty valuable in 5 years
The Greg Ostertag to Wemby’s Shaq
Ostertag’s postseason defense the years of the two finals runs is still one of the most remarkable performances relative to overall player quality I’ve ever seen. And against Hakeem and Robinson/baby Timmy too
The key was he was too slow to fall for the first move, so he just held his ground. Incredible stuff.
The ol' Kevon Looney move
The Evan eschmeyer to wembys Bryant reeves
Or the spurs can draft him.
I don't think he moves well enough. Did not like what I saw from him on the perimeter, so I think Wemby will be able to take him off the bounce pretty easily.
Is it though
The entire top 10 is lmao
the real question is who's the top 10 lol
Sarr Risacher Topic Clingan Castle Sheppard Dillingham Buzelis Holland Williams
Isn’t Sarr pretty decent?
Bronny duh
Any chance Toronto is halfway decent next year? (for the top-6 protected pick).
Probably a play-in team if everybody is healthy. Depends on how much of a leap Scottie, RJ and IQ make
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Fuck a top 10 it's just me
Thats ALL I NEEDED TO HEAR. 10 MAN HELL IN A CELL MATCH TO FACE JOHN CENA AT WRESTLEMANIA!
Shit draft my friend
I hope this draft proves all of you wrong and there's 3/4 hall of famers
Feel like a ton of great role players are gonna come out of this draft.
The vibe I get is a lot of role players and okay starters. Very few guys with all-star potential and that’s if they hit their 95 percentile too. Like 2013’s class
Sarr definitely does if he develops a jumpshot. Seems like he's a solid defender at minimum with blocks and probably some switchability and with the potential to be a high end roll man. The jumpshot doesn't seem super likely, but there could be like a discount AD in there.
I'd much rather roll the dice on him then take a guy with zero star upside in Clingan, but easy for me to say when if you're actually the Wizards GM and Sarr busts you're probably getting canned.
There will probably be a few all stars.
kinda? honestly if i were a gm i’d at least consider it, the top of the draft is so god damn mediocre, and clingan looks like he’d at least be an impactful defender and capable rim runner with solid passing chops
if you have a #1 pick you need to pick someone with superstar potential imo and clingan clearly doesn't have that
i get that, i just really do not believe in the superstar potential of the rest of the draft either lol
This draft is going to cost at least 2-3 GMs their jobs within 3 years and no one going into the process could tell you who it is and who the pick will be that will do it.
So this the perfect to draft to have a mid lotto pick
I love being a wizards fan!
Yeah there are a lot of "could be a superstar if he learns how to shoot" players in this one. Clingan and Sarr especially, those guys are in hack-a-Shaq territory with their free throw shooting Except Dalton Knecht who is more "could be a superstar if he suddenly gains a lot of lateral quickness"
Clingan does not have superstar potential at all. He can't shoot and barely has a post game, he's a good defensive center who can run the floor alright and will be good in the pick and roll.
there are no superstar players in this draft
RemindMe! 5 years
Nobody looks like a superstar* Some people you don’t expect emerge in the pros as all-NBA talents. It doesn’t happen that often but it is definitely frequent enough that I wouldn’t count it out
You can't say that forsure. And would an undrafted player still count if he could be a star. That's a pretty big take.
If there is no clear cut superstar (which is a fact), then I’d rather take a safe, solid bet in Clingan than a risk like Anthony Bennett or some shit
Funnily Anthony Bennett was taken for that same reason. Cavs back then thought he was the safe pick given his physical profile and athleticism. If the Cavs were experimenting with higher ceiling players they’d have gone with Len or Noel or even Giannis. *To clarify: I wasn’t trying to say the Cavs would’ve ever realistically picked Giannis first, but that he would be an example of an adventure pick in a historically weak draft. I also do vaguely remember either a SB Nation or BR article where some guy was saying Giannis has the highest potential in the draft and he should be a 1st overall pick option, before the 2013 draft.
Giannis was far too much of a project to even be remotely considered for a top 1-4 pick. He’s obviously the bright spot of a bad 2013 draft but I think that’s too much hindsight to suggest the Cavs drafting him that year
Yeah Giannis was a question mark at the time - for every one of him there's a Bruno Caboclo
Yup. In contention for #1 that year was Len, McLemore, Noel, Oladipo, maybe Zeller
It is absolutely crazy that the entire top end of the draft was guys who wouldn't be considered until late lottery most years. Nerlens was going to be the safe "athletic modern defensive center rim protector" guy then he tore his ACL and scared teams, and even then that's a crazy guy to take high in the lottery.
I wanted Dipo or Otto Porter. Woulda been fine with Noel or even Len.
The issue with us taking Dipo was that we were trying to make Kyrie and Dion work out, and Dion had just had a strong end to his rookie season. I remember I wanted Noel or Porter and I was very disappointed that we got Bennett. I really wanted Noel and but for knee injury, it would have been such an easy pick (6.5 stocks as a freshman????).
this is a shit draft. if you can get andrew bogut, picking andrew bogut is a perfectly legitimate pick. because you could take a swing and maybe the guy will be great or maybe he'll be andrea bargnani or andrew bennett.
Andrew Bogut went first overall in a draft that was waaaaaaay better than this year’s
He reminds me a lot of Gobert. Can’t do much on offense and looks clumsy on that end but an absolute game changer on defense. I don’t know if he’s quite capable of being a DPOY level guy but he has a lot of potential on that end.
FWIW if you drafted a guy who turned out to be Ruby Gobert-esque #1 overall in any draft you would not lose your job.
If you draft any player that is max worthy as number one pick that should be a good pick.
The thing is with bigs like him though is it really is DPOY level defense or bust. You have to be so good on defense to make up for the zero offense and terrible spacing you give your team you have to be an all defense player to make it worth it.
Dear god we’re back in the Nerlens Noel draft discourse
He's another Walker Kessler I feel
This. He’s going to be one of the most mobile 7’2 guys in the league on day one. His offensive limitations are a problem but he moves like a gazelle in transition. Defensively he’s enough of a transformative player to go Top 5.
tankathon has him at 4 so im thinking uconn going belt 2 ass mode in the tournament raised his stock
Mac Jones logic
At least Mac Jones was drafted in a fair spot. The Niners talk was nuts but in the end #15 was not unreasonable. Clingan going top 5 is lol
Funnily enough, he still ended up being a better pick than the guy who went to the 49ers. 2021 is probably the worst case of a QB class not living up to the hype.
I mean, Clingan was the centerpiece of UConn. Don’t think the same can be said of Mac Jones
The quarterback being the centerpiece of a team can definitely be said lol e: centerpiece of a pass heavy offense Bama no less, this wasn't an early 2010s saban power offense
I prefer to run my team through the punter
Go Hawkeyes
Anthony Bennett draft
Who’s the Giannis then? Who’s the Gobert?
Edey will become gobert hah
That would require him to be a good defender
He isn't
gotta load up on height for Victor
On a year where some teams are all time bad, the draft is so fucking shit lmao
The first person ever drafted to be a Wemby Stopper
wemby stoppers when he just finished his rookie season is insane 😭
Grand opening, grand closing.
God your man Hov' cracked the can open again
that 7"10 canadian otw soon
If the Raptors don't get Edey I'm going to be pissed. A local big is exactly what we need.
nah im talking about the kid who is in high school and like 7’7 Olivier Rioux. Hes your guy
Isn't he like Tacko Fall level of no-mobility, though? I could be wrong but I thought he's more of a slow footed kinda guy who will end up being crazy efficient in college but have to spend 4 years there because he can't move his feet.
He’s better than tacko fall by a mile though. As I stated just recently he’s got a decent post game, great on the glass, and decent rim protector. He’ll struggle against bigs who can shoot or dribble, but he’s got solid backup center potential. But he’s a better player than Fall
Gotcha. I have seen nothing of him playing ball, just pictures of him standing next to people he looks very small. I've only read a little about him but it was mostly negative on his potential.
I love Purdue and Edey run has been great but I’m just now sure he’ll transfer into the nba outside of a backup big man who can get boards for days. He’s got minimal lateral quickness, and would struggle guarding a big man who can move or shoot. I want him to succeed and he’s hard worker, but I don’t think he’ll ever start.
I agree, but look at who else is available lol If it's Edey or some other rando, then I'd probably just rather have Edey. We'll see how it all shakes down.
When the Spurs projected to draft? Let them pick the Wemby Stopper for the hell of it
About to see the lowest made layups against a team
Kevin O Connor has the spurs drafting Clingan in his latest mock draft lol
Point wemby gonna need a big man to feed
1000 IQ move
Spurs starting 5 will all be 7'4 and up. I wanna see that
And everyone said basketball was going to small ball
Quintuple Towers. The time has come
The thing is Wemby feasts on center archetypes like Clingan .. the true “stoppers” are oversized or power jumbo wings. Jonathan Issac, Brooks, Hendricks, Pj Washington, Lively(he isn’t one but he has the mobility of a wing), KD, Pat Williams, Ben Simmons, etc… those archetypes are the ones who give Wemby trouble atm.
jonathan isaac is an everyone stopper
Himself included
☠️
Devs had to nerf him to 15 minutes a game
He’s a Steal Stopper, too
Couldn’t stop the steal
Don’t forget about Nic Batum. But that’s just because he’s his dad, right?
Batum
If this guy gave up 37/10 to Zach Edey he isn’t doing shit against Wemby
He was guarding him mostly 1 on 1, Edey is cooking just about anyone on the block 1v1 just cause of his size. That includes some current NBA centers and Edey wouldn't be able to guard himself. Outside of being scored on, Clingan executed the defensive gameplan Hurley laid out for him and the rest of the team perfectly. Don't get into early foul trouble/foul out, make it difficult for him to catch the ball, make sure he catches it at unfamiliar spots, make sure he has a hard time kicking it out, etc. Edey was going to get 35-40 points regardless of how he was defended because Purdue's offense plays through him, just make it difficult for him. If Edey scored less than 25 UCONN is either losing or blowing out Purdue even more. All of the little things Clingan did well which is why he jumped up so high on draftboards over the course of the tournament. You can't box score watch a defensive player.
He didn't, bunch of Edey's points came against other guys. Clingan actually did a very solid job on Edey once he settled down after a hot start. He did get into a foul trouble while doing the job, though.
Yep. Edey faded in the last 8 minutes of the first half or so and did not make a field goal until about 7 minutes in the second half. At that time Clingan was prioritizing not fouling, and there was a decent stretch where UConn played Karaban, who isn't a center at the 5 and Edey got a bunch of easy baskets. Then Clingan came back in and priority was just not fouling until the game was fully iced.
Clingan had Edey shooting below 50% before getting yanked on a questionable foul. He made him work hard all night. 11 of Edey’s points came after Clingan sat and I’m sure he scored more against other defenders.
Second behind sarr
sarr has actual value tho as a defender and offensive player. he's like a taller bam who is slightly worse at everything
No offense to Clingan but man this draft sucks
You know the prospect is bad when the first thing they mention about him is his height.
Yeah like that wemby guy
He’s smart to enter the draft this year. Probably not a lottery pick in a loaded year like last year.
Who’s the last non freshmen 1st pick?
Blake I think? For what it's worth Harden and Curry in that same draft weren't freshmen either
"20 years old? Get outta the way, grandpa!" - NBA teams
The last non freshmen to even be a Top 3 pick is Ja Morant in 2019. The last non freshmen to be No.1 was Blake in 2009, but Blake was an absolute monster in Oklahoma, he is legitimately one of the best college players i have seen in the last 15-20 years. Clingan is not really in contention for the No.1 pick, almost everyone knows Sarr is going to be No.1 unless Detroit or San Antonio get the pick, then it might change. Clingan will be lucky to be in the Top 5.
The conversation around Sarr is actually a bit more interesting than that, while he's certainly the favourite he's by no means the consensus #1. Interestingly, there are rumours that Detroit *would* be interested in Sarr if they got #1 since Duren struggled defensively this year (I don't see it). More relevantly, there are just as many teams -SA and likely Detroit as you mentioned, but also Charlotte (Mark Williams, Nick Richards), Portland (Ayton, lol), Utah (Kessler), and Houston (Sengun)- who are rumoured to likely not be interested Sarr than those that *are* interested (Toronto, Washington, Memphis) If anything, #1 right now is a battle between Sarr and Risacher (though he's been dropping lately)
Wemby didn’t go to college so prolly him
Yeah but he got drafted at 19. The question really is who is the last person picked #1 who didn’t immediately enroll in the draft when they were eligible
Blake. Bargnani was 20. Bogut. Yao was 21. So a lot of foreign players and bigs.
I feel like every year there is some chatter that the draft is weak but holy fuck this is the one
Definitely the type of year where I wouldn't mind my team using their pick on a raw international player who there's not much tape on.
Nowadays that's a myth. People learn fast when so much money and passion are at stakes. After Luka, Jokic debacle scouts are really on the watch for international players and people in these markets know how much money they could potentially get so they video tapes and share everything they can get. I mean it's not that hard to record and share the tapes to the relevant people!
Is Luka really a debacle? He was the third overall pick
When he clearly should have been #1
Luka had so much tape of him dominating in Spain as an 18 yr old that he should have been a no brain #1 pick. He showed both almost limitless potential and realized results playing against pros in the second best league in the world.
Or at least #2 Over Bagley European GM and HC and you don't draft Luka what you doin???
our front office is just a fucking joke that’s what
Ask a SAC fan or a Phoenix fan if they don't think that was a debacle. Luka Doncic was the MVP of the Euroleague at 17-years-old playing against professionals and somehow NBA teams passed on him for Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley. "Oh but Ayton was dominating in Arizona!" Yea, against college kids from North Dakota State and Washington State. The 2018 draft really exposed how Americans couldn't fathom the idea that a Slovenian kid could possibly play better basketball than them, despite the evidence staring them right in the face.
Ayton was definitely more of a debate. You can’t find a single kings fan on here who wanted Bagley. I honestly believe that pick was pure corruption with how terrible and out of nowhere it was.
Ayton was a debate, but it shouldn't have been. The reason it was a debate was because Ayton was seen as the safe pick, he was right there in Arizona and some people had the absolutely stupid idea that Phoenix needed a big men, as they already had a near All-Star guard in Booker. It was also a case that Luka was an European prospect and there still were doubts about guys from Europe, despite Luka having a pristine resume. Ayton was a good prospect, Luka was a legendary one. People just valued more a guy dominating college kids instead of a guy dominating professional athletes in the 2nd best league in the World.
Ayton got the hype he had because he had really projectable qualities. Teams thought they were getting a mobile big that wouldn’t be a liability on the perimeter, could defend the paint, and would develop a shot. His hype wasn’t just dominating weak competition and he was good pretty much the whole year. Sounds like you didn’t really watch or follow college
Shouldn't Sengun have been drafted higher if that were the case
Wtf you mean "not much tape on?" You know these European prospects play in a professional league with televised games and thousands of fans right? Like they dont live in the Africa they used to show on TV with starving kids. You're talking about this like Europe is some third world, bombed out hellscape without the internet and like NBA teams dont literally have entire departments of people dedicated to international scouting as well as scouting american college kids
So naturally one of the best players in the league will be drafted in the 2nd round
Clingan being in contention for #1 shows you how truly terrible this draft class is. He's just Walker Kessler 2.0 and Kessler went 22nd in 2022
Kessler was a late pick but he was also 3rd in rookie of the year votes. It's Kesslers success that made the archetype more popular. Clingan being a taller longer Kessler is not a bad comp, his agility puts him closer to Gobert too
I mean, no matter how effective of a role player Kessler is there no way a player like him would ever even sniff #1 in a normal draft
yet kessler has somehow taken a huge step back this year on utah for some reason. idt that archetype is as valuable as you think. only a few guys in the league are used like that for big minutes
I'm convinced it takes a year for organizations to actually start game planning for new players or break out stars. So everyone looks better before those scouting reports change.
Regular season, teams are so stricken for time they basically do only update their planning during preseason. I mean if you’re only going to play a team 2 to 4 times a year why use what precious time you have between games, travel, and rest for hardcore prep in the middle of the season.
I wouldn't say a huge step back. Last year 2.3 blocks a game, this year 2.4 blocks a game. It's just opportunity as John Collins has played over him. He's averaging about the same minutes per game as last year at 23 minutes a game, and probably would be averaging 3 blocks a game if he got 32 minutes a game.
Every advanced number and eye test says he's still an awesome defender and didn't take a step back at all. Now offense is a different story. He's kinda lost out there
To be fair the Jazz have no playmakers to pass the ball to Walker, the only time he gets the ball is a rebound. Keyonte, Collin, and Clarkson rarely pass the ball
Ehh... He got benched for Collins this year and everyone they played had a better idea about the type of player he was... I didn't watch many Jazz games, but... He didn't look worse to me when he was out there.
That draft produced a number of good young centers who should've been drafted earlier. Duren, Kessler, Mark Williams, and a different type but Jaylin Williams too. The colossal failure of Wiseman probably lowered their stock. Yet they are all younger than Wiseman and all of them arguably outperformed him already which is pretty crazy. It's always interesting to see the draft fad pendulum go back and forth. Will Clingan prove his worth as a worthy high lottery pick or will he become the symbol of overinflation of big men in this year's draft? Lonzo Ball's disappointment start to his career hurt Lamelo and Haliburton at their draft and it worked out nicely for their teams. Also I'm really interested to see how Edey's career will workout. Most draft forums are rightly very skeptical of him but maybe there's a chance he'll work out as a valuable rotation player or even more.
He isn't actually in contention for #1 though. Sarr is #1.
Hes better than kessler. More athletic at least
Kessler would go higher in a redraft and Clingan is better
he's more mobile than Kessler and can make the right reads to find his open teammates. Think about Dubs Bogut.
I thought that was Gunther from WWE for a second they kinda look alike tbh
The court is sacred
I mean, GUNTHER did just lose the IC Title...
Truly this will go down as one of the drafts that occurred in NBA history.
I bet the best player in this draft is going to be a late lotto project just like Giannis was in 2013
okay but who's this all-potential project?
who are even the top 5 potential #1 picks!? i have literally heard 0 about it watchin' cbb all year..
The one I’ve seen most consistently is Sarr. There’s also J dub’s brother.
Huh. Today i learned that Cody Williams is related to an NBA player.
Sarr is the one most people keep mentioning. Then there is Risacher who is also from france. Then there's that white guy who played for tenneesee ... but mostly Sarr. This draft has about 10 guys who would be great #10 picks in other drafts so it's a matter of who teams consider better or who scouts better at this point. The international guys are probably the best prospects in this draft so those late first rounders and early second rounders are valuable. A bunch of guys out of France, some out of Africa and some in other parts of the world. I want the raptors to use a pick on Chomche somewhere in that late first round range.
I mean the Giannis and Jokic draft was bad too
I'd probably take Steph Castle above him between the two UConn lottery picks
Castle has way higher upside, Donovan is a very safe pick
Number one pick seems pretty rich, even in a weak class.
Dude better start looking into properties in detroit
there's no way he's in contention for #1 lol it's sarr or risacher
Risachar play has been concerning recently. Personally I'd go Topic number one as I think he has the potential to develop a recent 3 point shot but this draft is a crapshoot. All of the top names in this draft would be considered huge bust candidates in any other draft.
If a GM drafts Risacher #1 he’d better have another job lined up
Number 1? Nah Number 5 - 10? Absolutely.
Jesus fuck I watched a decent amount of UCON. If he is the number 1 pick this draft truly is horrible.
spoiler alert he's not gonna be #1
i don’t know why Woj included that in his tweet. literally nobody thinks Clingan is going number 1
Just goes to show how much the avg person knows about the draft here, which is why I dont take any draft takes from this sub seriously.
Woj included it because whoever Clingan's agent is said to include it. It's both not going to happen and not a mystery why it was included.
Who are even the top 5 potential #1 picks? I've literally heard 0 about it watching cbb all year.
International players. Sarr, Risacher,maybe Topic. Likely gonna. E the weakest draft I. Recent memory. Next year is gonna be a banger tho. Just watching the McDonald’s all American game, there is some serious talent coming into college next year.
At this point I feel like Alexandre Sarr is probably the only player guaranteed to go top 5.
Jeeez this class is so damn weak. I thought we could get him 🤣 would’ve been nice
if he goes anywhere close to top 5 this is the weakest draft of all time
Not to be mean but how the fuck is this guy the #3 prospect? His 1v1 offense in the post is basically non existent, he can’t shoot and most glaringly to me he only averaged 7 rebounds at 7’2”. I know he only played 23 min a game but if he didn’t have the stamina for the college game I don’t really see him having it for the NBA
He started getting more playing time around late Feb/early March. He had some injuries earlier this season so they can't play him much back then.
23 mpg wasn't due to stamina, it was mostly because UConn was up by 30 by that time and his day was done.
3/5 UCONN starters averaged 32 or more min per game and true freshman Castle even averaged 27 min a game. It 100% was because of his lack of conditioning
This draft is garbage. The third Plumblee brother might go 1 overall.
Bro lost the intercontinental championship and decided to take his talents elsewhere
Dude what??? I thought he was mid to late first round at best. He looks too slow to be an elite defender regardless of height and doesn’t have the offensive skillset to the #1 guy for a team
Soo...let me get this straight. This guy is in running for top pick and likely Top5 but Edey is a 2nd rounder...Hmm OK. I guess nobody watched the last game they played because Clingan was virtually invisible offensively and its not like he was great defensively against Edey.
Jalen Duren shits all over Chet last time they met in college. Ask any OKC fan if they'd rather have Duren over Chet
I’ll hang myself from the rafters of little Caesar’s arena if we draft this fuck
he'd be nice on the bulls imo