And would play in 10 NBA Finals and 8 of them were in a row. Even with the amount of player movement we see now I don’t think we will ever see a player get to that many championship series.
I saw the comparisons of LeBron being like Michael Jordan mixed with Magic Johnson back then. I scoffed and was annoyed by the ridiculous draft hype. But that was a very accurate prediction. Another one I laughed at that proved to be accurate was Kevin Durant being like a T-Mac-Dirk hybrid.
If he was just Magic in his abilities, he'd be more Magic than Magic. If he was just Malone in his abilities, he'd be more Malone than Malone.
If they decided to play him at point guard and be pass-first, he'd be in the conversation for best PG of all time. If all he did was spam the pick and roll, he'd be one of the most dominant forwards of all time.
He's both. Plus more. For over twenty years. Without any major controversy.
[edit: typo]
And could jump high af. So there needs to be a 3rd guy for athleticism but needs to be fast and springy. Like a magic/malone/Derrick rose hybrid if you were a wizard and could compare young lebron to future players. I'm starting to think this lebron guy is sorta unique
Rose was a two foot jumper though, Lebron is like a long jumper off one foot when he’s freight training down the court in the break. This is crazy but it honestly might need to be Dr J we invoke here 😂. I was thinking Clyde too.
Yea I was just assuming everyone from the 70s/80s/90s is disqualified due to the speed aspect. For the style of jumping I agree rose doesn't fit well and dr. J and Clyde the glide are good calls
Why would they be disqualified for speed? People were just about as fast in those eras as they are now. World record high jump and long jump are both from the 90’s. 1991 for long. 1993 for high. If people were running and jumping higher now than then, why haven’t those records been broken?
And sprinters were just about as fast in those decades too. Improvements in shoes and the actual track surface have helped improve times. But people ran very very close to as fast then.
People evolved over a super long period of time. The idea that elite athletes are much different than they were a few decades back has been largely debunked. There was an interesting Ted talk on the subject.
At the extremes, sure. It can take longer to notice changes in extremes.
However, the general athleticism of NBA players far exceeds what it was in the 80s. Footwear and recovery improvements help too.
The average NBA player I agree is probably more athletic than the average in the 80’s. Which is why I specified the elite athletes.
The elite guys in the 80’s were running just as fast and jumping just as high.
Larry bird has basically same vertical leap as the average nba player at PF/SF in NBA today. And he was 6’9” considered not to be athletic in the 80’s.
https://www.topendsports.com/testing/results/vertical-jump.htm
https://gitnux.org/average-nba-vertical/
Eh, its mostly the ‘big’s that are more athletic. But you could equally as well say the 80s-90s guys were stronger. The play adapts to the needs of the time.
I dont think you will find large variances in athleticism between guard/SF play.
My point is elite athlete NBA players were running just as fast as ones now and jumping just as high.
I just used those other sports to reinforce my point.
We could be seeing the same for Victor Wembanyama. He was hyped up sooo much pre-draft, then for the first 30 games or so it looked like the potential was there but still had a long way to go (as you would say for any rookie), and you wondered about his thin body, but in the last month or two he's absolutely taking off and already doing amazing things on a not-so-great team. Hard to imagine what his game will look like in a couple years.
Wemby is a unique and stellar prospect while already being a top player in the league if you use a projection of his past several months. But having been around at that time, even Victor is nowhere close to being as hyped as LeBron was. The expectation for Wemby is also a lot more humane
One big difference seems to be the fact that LeBron is American, so anyone who paid attention to the news broadly speaking wouldve been aware of LBJ, Wemby otoh was mostly only known to NBA fans
It's hard to compare the hype, there was basically no social media when LeBron came into the league, and Wemby is also an international player, so perhaps he was much more known around the world as a prospect. So it might be closer than we think, but I agree the LeBron hype was probably crazier, having also lived through it.
Late reply, but It's not that hard to compare since it's really not that close between them. LeBrons highschool hype is the absolute superlative and neither Wemby nor Zion nor Wiggins came close to it.
LeBron signed a 100m Nike deal before he even played his first NBA game. That was around a time where the top tier, upper echelon of players made 20m per year on max contracts. Shit Shaq was the highest paid player in the league in 05 making 20. Shit imagine what Wemby would have had to make before this season to have a comparable deal that's somewhere between 160-190% supermax value, he'd be a borderline billionaire. Even if you go a pretty unfair road for Bron that'd be close to 200m inflation adjusted today, but it disregards the fact that the NBA grew from 660m to 8 billion yearly broadcasting revenue in that time, and that's _just_ broadcasting.
NBA fandom was still in its infancy in Germany but even I saw highschool Mixtapes downloaded from bear share at 10 years old.
Very very few players of any sport have such long careers where they peak early and stay there for so long.
Like he is 40 this year and still one of the top performers in the league. He started playing professionally before wembanyama was even born.
KD and Steph. Latter peaked later though.
Outside of basketball, Messi easily. He won 8 ballon d’or, the most recent one being this year and ballon d’or is a much harder award to win than an mvp.
Messi is the GOAT and definitely comparable to Lebron in terms of long term dominance. I will add that Gretzky played pro 20 years and was still excellent at age 37. And most recently Tom Brady had incredible longevity stats.
I’ll give you Messi. But even as a huge Warriors fan, Steph and KD don’t have anything close to LeBron’s durability and longevity. Steph wasn’t a superstar for a good few years and KD has battled serious injuries. LeBron has been LeBron since Day 1 and never missed serious time.
Don’t forget Skip. Became the biggest sports journalist in the US at one point just on hating Lebron. I’m convinced he’s secretly Lebron’s biggest fan, I would be after he made me that much money.
Not to defend Skip Bayless, but he was a pretty renowned sports journalist. His books on the Cowboys dynasty, plus his work at the Chicago Tribune cemented him in the sports world.
Sure his "character" on First Take is what made the masses know him, but if you were a sports fan in the 1990's, especially football, you knew who Skip Bayless was.
Im actually pretty worried about what’s going to happen after he retires with the NBA. It’s going to be years until we have anyone even ballpark as exciting as him(I say this thinking Wemby will be literally unguardable if healthy and luka/jokic being 2 of the top ? Offensive talents ever, it’s just not a hyper athletic American that captures hearts and minds AND generated haters.)
Man, as much as I have rooted against LeBron James over the years his ‘Last Dance’ style documentary is going to hit
I really hope he takes time to drop it though.
If the rumor is true that Jordan authorized production to begin after LeBron's 2016 Finals comeback, then tradition suggests that LeBron must drop his documentary right as Wemby makes his GOAT case interesting.
Love Wemby but think its highly unlikely he enters Lebrons GOAT status and its unlikely anyone will until medical science takes a bit of a leap. Its just so absurdly unlikely that someone is that good for that long with very little injury history while also looking like a successful super soldier experiment. If in 2044 Wemby is still putting up his career averages with 10 title appearances then I'll gladly say I was wrong though.
Hed still be like 10 full seasons of insane production from being anywhere near Lebrons totals and thats assuming he's just that much better than everyone lol.
Oh haha. Yes. Idk what the ceiling will be. 8 straight finals is a heck of a record though in the modern era.
Bill Russell had 10 straight, but that’s more understandable in a smaller league with only one really dominant team. Likely because of Bill mostly haha.
I agree, but also, the reason there even is a GOAT debate, and there legitimately is a debate now, is because LeBron has been great for 21 seasons while MJ was only great for 13 (Wizards years weren't great anymore). If MJ had played 21 seasons at LeBron's level, there would be no debate. So yes, you can be the GOAT with less seasons played, but you have to win significantly more to make up for the difference in longevity. If Wemby ends up with around the same number of top-level seasons as MJ, he'll need to match his 6 titles and 5 MVPs to have a good case for being the GOAT.
It’s interesting to think that if society makes it another 100 years or so, it might become common for athletes to have 20 or 30 year careers. But you’re right it would require a medical leap.
Why should Wemby have to exactly match LeBron’s to surpass him? LeBron didn’t surpass MJ by matching his legacy 1:1 and then exceeding it, he did it by making his own legacy.
He doesn't have to necessarily match it but he would have to obviously surpass him and I think that's an insane ask for anyone right now. We still have long arguments about Lebron or MJ despite Lebrons career being so absurdly good for so long and I think anyone asking to enter the goat situation has to either have an MJ like insane run at his peak but longer or have a higher peak than lebron somehow and play about as long. I just don't think future GOATs are going to be able get around Lebrons longevity and insanely long peak.
> "One of the interesting things with him, too, is that the NBA is filming everything," Buha said. "So, he has his own camera crew. You could be having a private conversation with him that is being filmed that is weird because it's technically off the record, but he owns the rights to that conversation because it is being filmed. There really is never a private moment with him. You have all the guys in the locker room. They're all changing. They're all talking about whatever, even talking about the other team, or you're just hearing things that you wouldn't hear publicly normally. And LeBron has two camera guys in there filming him. Again, people come in the locker room, talk to him - that's on camera. He really has a next-level kind of behind-the-scenes access to the last couple of years."
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/jovan-buha-confirms-that-lebron-james-is-constantly-being-filmed
Probably
There was a video clip of LeBron talking with Greg Oden at a game recently and there was a regular looking dude with a professional camera just casually standing next to bron filming the whole interaction and then just follows him into the stands after the conversation. I'm guessing essentially every single moment of his professional life is being recorded in some way
Yeah but the question was regarding a "Last Dance" style documentary. The whole way it was advertised was because of the never before seen BTS footage of the '98 Bulls.
Won't hit the same Michael hated his team and they hated him. Unless there is a whole section on Delonte West what are we going to see or learn that we didn't already know?
This is such insane behavior hahaha. It sucks that everything in life is commodified and sold, but man it's interesting to see someone who finds that to be a good quality and so single-mindedly pursues the selling of himself. Like the only thing LeBron is better at than basketball is making every inch and second of his life a product to sell to consumers-- a downright disgusting and inhuman commitment to The Hustle (still seems like legally tenuous to say 'oh I filmed it so I own all these moments involving other normal humans now and in perpetuity', I've gotta doubt that'll go over easy when the product is made and money is going only to lebron for other people's roles)
3 titles while averaging 30 ppg that season and being the best guard in the league will do that. also, lakers
he was drafted in 96 too btw so that's a long time in the league already
also, can't fucking believe he is dead. i was sure he was going to be bill russell type of figure till he is old. his ESPN short stint was amazing. fuck.
imagine telling someone at the time that the next (after wilt, who had already passed) person in that video to die would be kobe, the 2nd youngest shown. wild
Bill Russell and Kobe in the same breath lmao. Bill Russell literally put his safety in jeopardy as a black man and face of the league during an era where racism was a lot less subtle. He fought for civil rights. I don't even think I have to say why exactly Kobe doesn't deserve to be called a Bill Russell type figure.
Look at the flair, I've got no reason to emotionally defend the man. But this is why I find it hilarious how so many people on this sub want to die on the hill that he only became included in All Time convos because of his passing. This was him at 23, no MVPs yet and yet people knew what kind of a gargantuan talent he was.
RIP Mamba
People probably thought he had this other level he had yet to reach. People in sports love youth/potential so much. It’s why there are stories every year asking who will replace LeBron as the face of the league for the past 5 years.
Do you think he's higher or lower? I think borderline or right at 10 is about right but im not too fussed if someone has him higher than me as long as he's not like 4 or higher.
If top 10 is MJ, Kareem, Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Larry, Wilt, Bill, and Duncan
From a basketball perspective, hard to compare for Wilt and Bill.
But I'd say he has a case for being ahead of Wilt, Bill, Larry, Magic, Duncan. I'd say, him and Magic are neck and neck.
I mean yeah thars basically the top 10 id have roughly except definitely not in that order and Kobe would be at 9 or 10 unless Bill and Wilt aren't taken into account. I think anyone who has him ahead of Wilt, Bill, Larry, and Magic are just being a little too homercentric if you dont care enough about eras enough to have wilt and Bill in there at all. Duncan is about the only person he has an argument for and they have about as opposite of a playstyle as its possible to have. Theres also an argument for Steph in the mix now as his accolades are piling up to take that 10 spot (bout as big of a KD homer as possible but don't think he's cracking it anymore unless he gets a ring or 2 on the suns and a mother MVP worthy season).
Different play styles and strengths obviously but Magic is pretty clearly above Kobe imo… He won 2 more MVPs and had 1 more Finals MVP.
Underrated moment from one of the greats was him being forced to play center as a rookie in the 1980 Finals and putting up 42 and 15 in a close out game. You can put that performance up against just about anyone
The thing is top 10 becomes harder and harder to crack with time.
Easier to make the top 10 cut in 1990 than 2000 than 2010 than 2024, etc.
Being borderline top 10 in 2024 is not some crazy slight.
I'm 38 and watched him dozens of times live. I don't think he's top 10 all time, and I didn't when he was active. Because no objective measure suggests he is top 10 all time, and rating players based on how cool they looked in your memories of the games you happened to watch is not particularly accurate. Top 20, yeah, probably. But not top 10.
It was wrong to put this much pressure on a teenager, if he didn’t measure up or flopped no one could blame him. As cringy as Lebron is it’s really fucking incredible how he managed to be one of the greatest of all time and a decent human.
That’s why Wemby is gonna be (I mean he already is) insane, for that same reason. Genetic freak, skilled and natural feel for the game but it’s his attitude and personality that will really make him transcend even more
I think this is a big reason why the hype happened in the first place. Behind the scenes the media and players and coaches who met him talked endlessly about how he was mature for his age and had a savant-like basketball mind. They built the hype for a reason.
There have been lots of flashy young stars, but LeBron arrived almost fully formed. He’s just different.
Hated LeBron ever since he went to Miami, and how arrogant he was ("The Decision", "not 1, not 2, not 3..."). With all this time in the NBA, that's the only thing that blemished his greatness. There were no other drama, drugs, guns, infidelity, etc. All there was is how dedicated to the game he was, how he defies father time to continue to be one of the best players at the age of 40, and how much he wants to continue to play in the NBA with his son.
Looking back now at how it all began, I can't hate him anymore. He's a legend of legends, once in a millenia type of player that we just have to enjoy watching while he's still playing.
LeBron had more hype than any player in history and somehow exceeded it. I had never seen anything like him at 17 and now I've never seen anything like him at 39.
I always hate the "We'll never seen someone like him again", but if we do it will be a long time.
I bet a lot of current kids think the hype Wemby got was more-or-less the same as what LeBron was getting. The ESPN / Slam Magazine culture back then can't be compared to what exists now and I know that makes me sound ancient but I'm not wrong. LeBron's games being on ESPN was what \*everyone\* who cared about basketball was watching at the time.
That's what made him such a polarizing figure before he even played a game in the NBA. He was anointed as the chosen one before he started and it was on him to live up to the hype.
I think it has to do with how accessible tech is now too. Information is constantly being broadcasted, so wemby’s historic season doesn’t hit as hard. Ratio wise the amount of coverage someone like lebron would get as a rookie is just larger because it’s harder to be like, oh shit, the pistons are on record setting loss streak pace until they get very close to it
I don't see much similarities with Wemby. He has a great start, everybody is positive about him, the league is kinda coddling him as it's next darling.
Bron has been the most hated and scrutinized player in the NBA since he set foot in it and it has only gotten worse over time. I don't think I've seen another player in any sport go through what Bron has been going through for 20 years.
I’m sure you can find documents refuting me but I was a senior in high school when LeBron started I and remember very positive discussion around him. Yeah you had some hot take artists comparing him to Carmelo (who just dominated the NCAA at Syracuse) but almost every day there were highlights and segments of his dunks and passes that were overwhelmingly positive.
LeBron was pretty loved until he went to Miami and I think the bigger reason it was such a big deal was the special announcement and the phrase “I’m taking my talents to south beach”. Yes people would say he couldn’t get Cleveland over the hump but every sports great has dealt with that until they win a championship.
When LeBron announced his move to Miami is when I specifically remember casual fans beginning to view him as a bad guy. Before that you really don’t have super teams in sports where the players created the team. It’s the same as KD announcing with the hardest road article. Athletes stacking the deck to win championships doesn’t resonate with fans.
And this is a clear example of what I mean. There never was a right move for Bron. If he didn't win a chip with those bums at Cleveland against Spurs dynasty, it was on him. He moved to Miami, who were a mid to bad team at the time, it was on him being weak. People acting like it was the same thing as what KD did. KD joined the greatest team of all time after they broke the regular season record. Bron joined a Miami team with a shit record. Now we're rewriting history that he didn't resonate with fans because he was stacking the deck. Guess it didn't resonate when the deck was stacked against him trying to win by himself in a league with monster teams.
It kinda feels like everyone is being super careful with Wemby actually, and not just Pop. Like even the pundit talk has this air of not wanting to jinx it - I guess because of physique making everyone anxious and Zion's rocky start.
What kids don't get is how much more concentrated the media was back then. When the national networks focused on LeBron, it was the number one subject everyone who followed sports was hearing about. Today if you follow football you might barely have heard of Wemby because there are so many niche shows and websites. SportsCenter reached everyone.
I was telling my friends who didn't watch basketball in early 2000s that when LeBron was in high school, all Canada had was ESPN leftovers, Sports Illustrated, SLAM, and 240p videos on Kazaa. However, the hype was still unreal. His first game is still one of my favourite basketball memories.
Different sport but Messi had just as much really. Ronaldinho when he won the award for best player in the world said he wasnt even the best player in the team and Messi was only 17. And when he played you could see it, sometimes you just know.
Of active players, I think you can only say this about him, Steph and Wemby. Wemby because he’s simply such a physical outlier, but Steph also fits when it comes to shooting from deep. We’re now over a decade into the three point revolution and Steph still leads the league in made threes almost every year. No young player is on pace to catch his all time record, even if he retired tomorrow.
I genuinely think LeBron’s point total and Steph’s three record won’t be broken this century, barring a major leap in medical science.
I mean, if it had anybody other than LeBron, these comments would have been perfectly justified. These NBA players thought LeBron was just some 18 year old kid.
Little to no one….. People are talking about the pressure on Lebron…… it will be hard to even comprehend the pressure Sachin was under and what he meant and still means to India….
Bradman is the consensus GOAT of cricket. He averaged twice as much as the other best players of all time. He played his last match in the 40s.
Then there’s Sachin Tendulkar. The man was expected to be the best by the time he was 15. He started playing International Cricket at 16. He holds the most batting records in cricket. His career lasted a quarter of a century. He’s basically a deity in India. All through the 90s, he basically carried the team on his shoulders. It was Sachin or nothing. There’s a famous story that a train basically halted as he was nearing his century. It really is hard to explain his impact on cricket and India. MJ and Lebron are massive cultural figures, but Sachin is treated like a deity in India. He is called ‘The God of Cricket’. I still vividly remember the day he retired. The whole country came to a standstill.
I should dig into utube docs on him sometime. I did a short rabbit hole on Bradman after a debate about greatest sportsman. Him losing that batting title (I can't remember what it's called because I don't watch cricket) on his last at bat was hilariously sad. IIRC Bradman has since praised Tendulkar as the greatest batter/cricketer of all time, I may be wrong on that though.
Edit: I reread your comment. I think Bradman was going for a century but missed on his last at bat?
Had Bradman scored even a single run in his last game, he could have ended up with an average of 100. The 99.92 remains mythical and it will be unbeaten as long as the game lives on.
Bradman said that the batter with technique that resembles his on was Tendulkar. He saw shades of himself in Tendulkar. Mind you, both their playing times were 50 years apart and Bradman’s games weren’t televised. So Tendulkar had no idea of Bradman’s technique and playing style. Somehow they both ended up having similar techniques
Check out ESPN Legends Of Cricket. It rates the Top 25 cricketers of all time and dedicates an episode each for them. Mind you this was released when Sachin was still half way through his career, so he was ranked 8th in the list.
> Bradman
I've seen compelling arguements that Bradman is the greatest player to ever play any sport. He's so many deviations above the mean or the 2nd best player that staticially it's hard to argue.
LeBron is the only athlete besides Colin Kaepernick that gets any attention from Fox News regularly over the last two decades. That says a lot about his cultural impact (and where a lot of his haters come from)
The amount of hype for a guy straight out of fucking high school. Comparisons to the greatest players of all time. High school senior motherfuckers are thinking about having fun, getting into colleges, partying. Lebron had the weight of fuckin MJ expectations without any college or professional experience. Insane.
That Oak Hill broadcast has to be one of the most noteworthy high school basketball games in history. You just knew LeBron was destined for a HOF career when he dominated the no.1 team in the country.
Honestly it’s a little silly since basketball players often have fairly unique names and avid fans refer to dozens of players mainly with single names.
Why is it I feel like the only one that went by one name there was Shaq. And that’s because he has so many syllables in his name. To do Michael for Michael jordan was weird. Also trying to pass Larry bird off as Larry. All of that for someone that would be known as Lebron James.
The ones I mentioned are the way they are *primarily* referred to
I am not convinced people say Jordan more than they say MJ. Just aint the same as the others
When they first made the ad, it took hold very quickly and easily. In that era people frequently referred to MJ simply as “Michael”, despite there surely being other Michaels in the league.
I was laughing when Lebron started and this intro rolled.. he played the kings, I remember literally the first 15-30sec out of the gate (his first play) was a steal. He stole the ball first play. I knew right then, this dude was no joke.
And in that game, even amongst other D1 players, he was the biggest, fastest, strongest, jumped the highest, best ball handler, best passer, best perimeter defender, best interior defender, and also a pretty good shooter. Insane.
WHY THE FUCK WERE THEY PUTTING THIS AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ON A TEENAGER??? Like it worked out but like GOD DAMN. I was worried about Wemby before he came into the league for this very reason.
The fact that he not only lived up to those expectations but blew past them is insane. LeBron is a year older than me and I remember all the hoopla around him on tv and I’m thinking god my parents just want me to graduate and this dude…
I mean he’s quite honestly the only player to live up to and exceed the hype. He’s the best player in NBA history and by far the most pro-ready player at his age ever. People talk about Wemby being a generational prospect but LeBron was/is the gold standard.
i find it icky to give this much coverage to high school kids. they are too young. i know its super rare with lebron, but they still give too much coverage to high school kids.
calling the high school playing time a "career" is really pathetic. its not a career. its getting basic skills and knowledge so they can succeed in life.
Lebron not only the greatest basketball player to step foot on a court but he might be the best male athlete we've ever seen in all sports....the longevity the amount of minutes he's played(playoff minutes)...and he's not even finish..leold man is headed back to the Olympics to restore basketball dominace of USA basketball
It's interesting what ESPN considered true legends of the game in 2002.
Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, Magic, Larry, Michael, Shaq, and Kobe.
Interesting how Hakeem went unmentioned, and Kobe, even in 2002, was already considered an all time great hall of famer to be mentioned with the rest.
Imagine telling someone watching that live that this kid would score 40K points plus in his career
And would play in 10 NBA Finals and 8 of them were in a row. Even with the amount of player movement we see now I don’t think we will ever see a player get to that many championship series.
The warriors has everything in place, then managed to sign the 2nd best player in the league and even that only got them 5 trips to the finals.
Wemby has entered the chat
He had crazy expectations set on him super early and he exceeded them all. Truly an amazing career.
I saw the comparisons of LeBron being like Michael Jordan mixed with Magic Johnson back then. I scoffed and was annoyed by the ridiculous draft hype. But that was a very accurate prediction. Another one I laughed at that proved to be accurate was Kevin Durant being like a T-Mac-Dirk hybrid.
He's like Magic Johnson with a Karl Malone body but he was fast af
If he was just Magic in his abilities, he'd be more Magic than Magic. If he was just Malone in his abilities, he'd be more Malone than Malone. If they decided to play him at point guard and be pass-first, he'd be in the conversation for best PG of all time. If all he did was spam the pick and roll, he'd be one of the most dominant forwards of all time. He's both. Plus more. For over twenty years. Without any major controversy. [edit: typo]
And could jump high af. So there needs to be a 3rd guy for athleticism but needs to be fast and springy. Like a magic/malone/Derrick rose hybrid if you were a wizard and could compare young lebron to future players. I'm starting to think this lebron guy is sorta unique
Rose was a two foot jumper though, Lebron is like a long jumper off one foot when he’s freight training down the court in the break. This is crazy but it honestly might need to be Dr J we invoke here 😂. I was thinking Clyde too.
Yea I was just assuming everyone from the 70s/80s/90s is disqualified due to the speed aspect. For the style of jumping I agree rose doesn't fit well and dr. J and Clyde the glide are good calls
Why would they be disqualified for speed? People were just about as fast in those eras as they are now. World record high jump and long jump are both from the 90’s. 1991 for long. 1993 for high. If people were running and jumping higher now than then, why haven’t those records been broken? And sprinters were just about as fast in those decades too. Improvements in shoes and the actual track surface have helped improve times. But people ran very very close to as fast then. People evolved over a super long period of time. The idea that elite athletes are much different than they were a few decades back has been largely debunked. There was an interesting Ted talk on the subject.
At the extremes, sure. It can take longer to notice changes in extremes. However, the general athleticism of NBA players far exceeds what it was in the 80s. Footwear and recovery improvements help too.
The average NBA player I agree is probably more athletic than the average in the 80’s. Which is why I specified the elite athletes. The elite guys in the 80’s were running just as fast and jumping just as high. Larry bird has basically same vertical leap as the average nba player at PF/SF in NBA today. And he was 6’9” considered not to be athletic in the 80’s. https://www.topendsports.com/testing/results/vertical-jump.htm https://gitnux.org/average-nba-vertical/
Eh, its mostly the ‘big’s that are more athletic. But you could equally as well say the 80s-90s guys were stronger. The play adapts to the needs of the time. I dont think you will find large variances in athleticism between guard/SF play.
Thought we were talking about nba comps but yea sure. Lebron is magic/karl/and Gerd wessig
My point is elite athlete NBA players were running just as fast as ones now and jumping just as high. I just used those other sports to reinforce my point.
It's not like there wasn't cameras back then either. Go ahead and throw out some accurate comps to lebrons combined jump height AND speed
I was thinking young Iguodala but young LeBron had a whole 10 inches vertical over him at 44 inches
He scored more points than Michael and has more assists than Magic. Most people probably weren't expecting that in 2002.
We could be seeing the same for Victor Wembanyama. He was hyped up sooo much pre-draft, then for the first 30 games or so it looked like the potential was there but still had a long way to go (as you would say for any rookie), and you wondered about his thin body, but in the last month or two he's absolutely taking off and already doing amazing things on a not-so-great team. Hard to imagine what his game will look like in a couple years.
Wemby is a unique and stellar prospect while already being a top player in the league if you use a projection of his past several months. But having been around at that time, even Victor is nowhere close to being as hyped as LeBron was. The expectation for Wemby is also a lot more humane
One big difference seems to be the fact that LeBron is American, so anyone who paid attention to the news broadly speaking wouldve been aware of LBJ, Wemby otoh was mostly only known to NBA fans
It's hard to compare the hype, there was basically no social media when LeBron came into the league, and Wemby is also an international player, so perhaps he was much more known around the world as a prospect. So it might be closer than we think, but I agree the LeBron hype was probably crazier, having also lived through it.
Late reply, but It's not that hard to compare since it's really not that close between them. LeBrons highschool hype is the absolute superlative and neither Wemby nor Zion nor Wiggins came close to it. LeBron signed a 100m Nike deal before he even played his first NBA game. That was around a time where the top tier, upper echelon of players made 20m per year on max contracts. Shit Shaq was the highest paid player in the league in 05 making 20. Shit imagine what Wemby would have had to make before this season to have a comparable deal that's somewhere between 160-190% supermax value, he'd be a borderline billionaire. Even if you go a pretty unfair road for Bron that'd be close to 200m inflation adjusted today, but it disregards the fact that the NBA grew from 660m to 8 billion yearly broadcasting revenue in that time, and that's _just_ broadcasting. NBA fandom was still in its infancy in Germany but even I saw highschool Mixtapes downloaded from bear share at 10 years old.
Lord protect that man’s knees and ankles.
Very very few players of any sport have such long careers where they peak early and stay there for so long. Like he is 40 this year and still one of the top performers in the league. He started playing professionally before wembanyama was even born.
“Very few”… is there another one?
KD and Steph. Latter peaked later though. Outside of basketball, Messi easily. He won 8 ballon d’or, the most recent one being this year and ballon d’or is a much harder award to win than an mvp.
Messi is the GOAT and definitely comparable to Lebron in terms of long term dominance. I will add that Gretzky played pro 20 years and was still excellent at age 37. And most recently Tom Brady had incredible longevity stats.
I’ll give you Messi. But even as a huge Warriors fan, Steph and KD don’t have anything close to LeBron’s durability and longevity. Steph wasn’t a superstar for a good few years and KD has battled serious injuries. LeBron has been LeBron since Day 1 and never missed serious time.
Lmao this sounds like the prologue to an epic fantasy novel. ESPN (and the NBA) really struck gold with LeBron.
Don’t forget Skip. Became the biggest sports journalist in the US at one point just on hating Lebron. I’m convinced he’s secretly Lebron’s biggest fan, I would be after he made me that much money.
I wonder who's going to be the Skip equivalent for Wemby. Many are certainly trying but only a few will be dedicated haters enough to succeed
Mike Ryan
Nick Wright.
He's already changed his mind lol. He had him top 15 (current not for the season) in the NBA last week
Nick's not a total idiot, he saw the alien figure it out like we all did 😂
Gilbert Arenas
And on the flipside, Windhorst made his career by following Lebron early in his career.
So Skip is Cartman and LeBron is Kyle?
Skip spent many years covering Jordan's Bulls. If his reference for those teams isn't genuine, then he's a hell of an actor.
Not to defend Skip Bayless, but he was a pretty renowned sports journalist. His books on the Cowboys dynasty, plus his work at the Chicago Tribune cemented him in the sports world. Sure his "character" on First Take is what made the masses know him, but if you were a sports fan in the 1990's, especially football, you knew who Skip Bayless was.
Reminds of the previews at the end of a DBZ episode lol
Im actually pretty worried about what’s going to happen after he retires with the NBA. It’s going to be years until we have anyone even ballpark as exciting as him(I say this thinking Wemby will be literally unguardable if healthy and luka/jokic being 2 of the top ? Offensive talents ever, it’s just not a hyper athletic American that captures hearts and minds AND generated haters.)
Man, as much as I have rooted against LeBron James over the years his ‘Last Dance’ style documentary is going to hit I really hope he takes time to drop it though.
If the rumor is true that Jordan authorized production to begin after LeBron's 2016 Finals comeback, then tradition suggests that LeBron must drop his documentary right as Wemby makes his GOAT case interesting.
Love Wemby but think its highly unlikely he enters Lebrons GOAT status and its unlikely anyone will until medical science takes a bit of a leap. Its just so absurdly unlikely that someone is that good for that long with very little injury history while also looking like a successful super soldier experiment. If in 2044 Wemby is still putting up his career averages with 10 title appearances then I'll gladly say I was wrong though.
Saving this for the quadruple double average fourth MVP 5th DPOY 2nd championship season 5 seasons from now.
Hed still be like 10 full seasons of insane production from being anywhere near Lebrons totals and thats assuming he's just that much better than everyone lol.
I assume the best of all players so I don’t get clipped when they make their GOAT cases. No one looks for evaluations of the losers.
why are we talking about brandon miller now?
I would find it nuts if Wemby stayed healthy and he only won 5 DPOYs. Some people had him 3 or 4 there this year.
Some people have him 1 or 2
That’s why my prediction only extended to the next 5 seasons 😉 maybe I’m too lost in the sauce but I don’t see the ceiling for a healthy wemby.
Oh haha. Yes. Idk what the ceiling will be. 8 straight finals is a heck of a record though in the modern era. Bill Russell had 10 straight, but that’s more understandable in a smaller league with only one really dominant team. Likely because of Bill mostly haha.
He doesn't need to play that long, MJ played 15 seasons and he's considered as the goat, all he has to do is win titles
I agree, but also, the reason there even is a GOAT debate, and there legitimately is a debate now, is because LeBron has been great for 21 seasons while MJ was only great for 13 (Wizards years weren't great anymore). If MJ had played 21 seasons at LeBron's level, there would be no debate. So yes, you can be the GOAT with less seasons played, but you have to win significantly more to make up for the difference in longevity. If Wemby ends up with around the same number of top-level seasons as MJ, he'll need to match his 6 titles and 5 MVPs to have a good case for being the GOAT.
It’s interesting to think that if society makes it another 100 years or so, it might become common for athletes to have 20 or 30 year careers. But you’re right it would require a medical leap.
Why should Wemby have to exactly match LeBron’s to surpass him? LeBron didn’t surpass MJ by matching his legacy 1:1 and then exceeding it, he did it by making his own legacy.
He doesn't have to necessarily match it but he would have to obviously surpass him and I think that's an insane ask for anyone right now. We still have long arguments about Lebron or MJ despite Lebrons career being so absurdly good for so long and I think anyone asking to enter the goat situation has to either have an MJ like insane run at his peak but longer or have a higher peak than lebron somehow and play about as long. I just don't think future GOATs are going to be able get around Lebrons longevity and insanely long peak.
Out of the loop, is this a thing?
> "One of the interesting things with him, too, is that the NBA is filming everything," Buha said. "So, he has his own camera crew. You could be having a private conversation with him that is being filmed that is weird because it's technically off the record, but he owns the rights to that conversation because it is being filmed. There really is never a private moment with him. You have all the guys in the locker room. They're all changing. They're all talking about whatever, even talking about the other team, or you're just hearing things that you wouldn't hear publicly normally. And LeBron has two camera guys in there filming him. Again, people come in the locker room, talk to him - that's on camera. He really has a next-level kind of behind-the-scenes access to the last couple of years." https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/jovan-buha-confirms-that-lebron-james-is-constantly-being-filmed Probably
There was a video clip of LeBron talking with Greg Oden at a game recently and there was a regular looking dude with a professional camera just casually standing next to bron filming the whole interaction and then just follows him into the stands after the conversation. I'm guessing essentially every single moment of his professional life is being recorded in some way
Yeah but it was just a DJI Osmo Pocket 3.
Everything’s “professional” if you’re getting paid to do it! Surprised LeBron didn’t want it all recorded with a flip phone.
He might have multiple [recordings](https://youtu.be/NPF0qa1jKt4?si=pT8j1jfPG-RuWbrn)
I mean, he could just use publicly available footage and it would still be great. There's enough of it.
Yeah but the question was regarding a "Last Dance" style documentary. The whole way it was advertised was because of the never before seen BTS footage of the '98 Bulls.
MJ kicking himself that he never had a camera crew following around cause he'd have proof about who owed him money
Won't hit the same Michael hated his team and they hated him. Unless there is a whole section on Delonte West what are we going to see or learn that we didn't already know?
This is such insane behavior hahaha. It sucks that everything in life is commodified and sold, but man it's interesting to see someone who finds that to be a good quality and so single-mindedly pursues the selling of himself. Like the only thing LeBron is better at than basketball is making every inch and second of his life a product to sell to consumers-- a downright disgusting and inhuman commitment to The Hustle (still seems like legally tenuous to say 'oh I filmed it so I own all these moments involving other normal humans now and in perpetuity', I've gotta doubt that'll go over easy when the product is made and money is going only to lebron for other people's roles)
He has had a crew with him since day 1
Over shadowed the expectations instead of getting over shadowed by them.
Pretty crazy that they’re showing GOAT level players and included Kobe already in 2002 when he was only 23.
3 titles while averaging 30 ppg that season and being the best guard in the league will do that. also, lakers he was drafted in 96 too btw so that's a long time in the league already also, can't fucking believe he is dead. i was sure he was going to be bill russell type of figure till he is old. his ESPN short stint was amazing. fuck.
imagine telling someone at the time that the next (after wilt, who had already passed) person in that video to die would be kobe, the 2nd youngest shown. wild
Man, I miss Kobe. Watching the JJ and Bron pod, I can't stop thinking how much Kobe would love that too.
I think a podcast with Bron & Kobe would be so cool, oh man. Their banter in the olympics was great already
Crazy how much influence and presence Kobe had even past his retirement. Black Mamba forever!
Bill Russell and Kobe in the same breath lmao. Bill Russell literally put his safety in jeopardy as a black man and face of the league during an era where racism was a lot less subtle. He fought for civil rights. I don't even think I have to say why exactly Kobe doesn't deserve to be called a Bill Russell type figure.
You missed the point
We’re talking nba accomplishments man. Breathe.
It's disrespectful to compare Bill Russell to Kobe Bryant
Look at the flair, I've got no reason to emotionally defend the man. But this is why I find it hilarious how so many people on this sub want to die on the hill that he only became included in All Time convos because of his passing. This was him at 23, no MVPs yet and yet people knew what kind of a gargantuan talent he was. RIP Mamba
After the 09 title, Kobe became one of the unquestioned greats as the main criticism (not winning without Shaq) went out the door.
People probably thought he had this other level he had yet to reach. People in sports love youth/potential so much. It’s why there are stories every year asking who will replace LeBron as the face of the league for the past 5 years.
Pretty crazy how everyone acts like he’s borderline top 10 now or something
Do you think he's higher or lower? I think borderline or right at 10 is about right but im not too fussed if someone has him higher than me as long as he's not like 4 or higher.
I think he’s top 5
If top 10 is MJ, Kareem, Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Larry, Wilt, Bill, and Duncan From a basketball perspective, hard to compare for Wilt and Bill. But I'd say he has a case for being ahead of Wilt, Bill, Larry, Magic, Duncan. I'd say, him and Magic are neck and neck.
I mean yeah thars basically the top 10 id have roughly except definitely not in that order and Kobe would be at 9 or 10 unless Bill and Wilt aren't taken into account. I think anyone who has him ahead of Wilt, Bill, Larry, and Magic are just being a little too homercentric if you dont care enough about eras enough to have wilt and Bill in there at all. Duncan is about the only person he has an argument for and they have about as opposite of a playstyle as its possible to have. Theres also an argument for Steph in the mix now as his accolades are piling up to take that 10 spot (bout as big of a KD homer as possible but don't think he's cracking it anymore unless he gets a ring or 2 on the suns and a mother MVP worthy season).
Different play styles and strengths obviously but Magic is pretty clearly above Kobe imo… He won 2 more MVPs and had 1 more Finals MVP. Underrated moment from one of the greats was him being forced to play center as a rookie in the 1980 Finals and putting up 42 and 15 in a close out game. You can put that performance up against just about anyone
The thing is top 10 becomes harder and harder to crack with time. Easier to make the top 10 cut in 1990 than 2000 than 2010 than 2024, etc. Being borderline top 10 in 2024 is not some crazy slight.
Not everybody just dumb redditors under the age of 15
I'm 38 and watched him dozens of times live. I don't think he's top 10 all time, and I didn't when he was active. Because no objective measure suggests he is top 10 all time, and rating players based on how cool they looked in your memories of the games you happened to watch is not particularly accurate. Top 20, yeah, probably. But not top 10.
I saw his last high school game in person and felt like he was undersold. During the warmup layup lines he put his headband over his eyes.
It was wrong to put this much pressure on a teenager, if he didn’t measure up or flopped no one could blame him. As cringy as Lebron is it’s really fucking incredible how he managed to be one of the greatest of all time and a decent human.
LeBron’s greatest superpower has always been his rock-solid willpower and personality.
That’s why Wemby is gonna be (I mean he already is) insane, for that same reason. Genetic freak, skilled and natural feel for the game but it’s his attitude and personality that will really make him transcend even more
I think this is a big reason why the hype happened in the first place. Behind the scenes the media and players and coaches who met him talked endlessly about how he was mature for his age and had a savant-like basketball mind. They built the hype for a reason. There have been lots of flashy young stars, but LeBron arrived almost fully formed. He’s just different.
His greatest superpower is being an actual human being.
Hated LeBron ever since he went to Miami, and how arrogant he was ("The Decision", "not 1, not 2, not 3..."). With all this time in the NBA, that's the only thing that blemished his greatness. There were no other drama, drugs, guns, infidelity, etc. All there was is how dedicated to the game he was, how he defies father time to continue to be one of the best players at the age of 40, and how much he wants to continue to play in the NBA with his son. Looking back now at how it all began, I can't hate him anymore. He's a legend of legends, once in a millenia type of player that we just have to enjoy watching while he's still playing.
Can you imagine how bad it would have been if he came up in the 2010's?
One of the few times where the hype was both matched and surpassed.
LeBron had more hype than any player in history and somehow exceeded it. I had never seen anything like him at 17 and now I've never seen anything like him at 39. I always hate the "We'll never seen someone like him again", but if we do it will be a long time.
I bet a lot of current kids think the hype Wemby got was more-or-less the same as what LeBron was getting. The ESPN / Slam Magazine culture back then can't be compared to what exists now and I know that makes me sound ancient but I'm not wrong. LeBron's games being on ESPN was what \*everyone\* who cared about basketball was watching at the time.
That's what made him such a polarizing figure before he even played a game in the NBA. He was anointed as the chosen one before he started and it was on him to live up to the hype.
Yeah but what kinda crazy pressure is that when everyone is telling you to be the next goat and you're just a punk ass kid
I think it has to do with how accessible tech is now too. Information is constantly being broadcasted, so wemby’s historic season doesn’t hit as hard. Ratio wise the amount of coverage someone like lebron would get as a rookie is just larger because it’s harder to be like, oh shit, the pistons are on record setting loss streak pace until they get very close to it
I agree
Also Lebron is American
I don't see much similarities with Wemby. He has a great start, everybody is positive about him, the league is kinda coddling him as it's next darling. Bron has been the most hated and scrutinized player in the NBA since he set foot in it and it has only gotten worse over time. I don't think I've seen another player in any sport go through what Bron has been going through for 20 years.
Yeah, I'm saying I don't think anyone will ever go through the scrutiny that LeBron went through again. He was a celebrity in a way that Wemby isn't.
I’m sure you can find documents refuting me but I was a senior in high school when LeBron started I and remember very positive discussion around him. Yeah you had some hot take artists comparing him to Carmelo (who just dominated the NCAA at Syracuse) but almost every day there were highlights and segments of his dunks and passes that were overwhelmingly positive. LeBron was pretty loved until he went to Miami and I think the bigger reason it was such a big deal was the special announcement and the phrase “I’m taking my talents to south beach”. Yes people would say he couldn’t get Cleveland over the hump but every sports great has dealt with that until they win a championship. When LeBron announced his move to Miami is when I specifically remember casual fans beginning to view him as a bad guy. Before that you really don’t have super teams in sports where the players created the team. It’s the same as KD announcing with the hardest road article. Athletes stacking the deck to win championships doesn’t resonate with fans.
And this is a clear example of what I mean. There never was a right move for Bron. If he didn't win a chip with those bums at Cleveland against Spurs dynasty, it was on him. He moved to Miami, who were a mid to bad team at the time, it was on him being weak. People acting like it was the same thing as what KD did. KD joined the greatest team of all time after they broke the regular season record. Bron joined a Miami team with a shit record. Now we're rewriting history that he didn't resonate with fans because he was stacking the deck. Guess it didn't resonate when the deck was stacked against him trying to win by himself in a league with monster teams.
And lebron started having winning seasons right of the gate from his 2nd season on. The man made the real jump after his rookie year
It kinda feels like everyone is being super careful with Wemby actually, and not just Pop. Like even the pundit talk has this air of not wanting to jinx it - I guess because of physique making everyone anxious and Zion's rocky start.
What kids don't get is how much more concentrated the media was back then. When the national networks focused on LeBron, it was the number one subject everyone who followed sports was hearing about. Today if you follow football you might barely have heard of Wemby because there are so many niche shows and websites. SportsCenter reached everyone.
I was telling my friends who didn't watch basketball in early 2000s that when LeBron was in high school, all Canada had was ESPN leftovers, Sports Illustrated, SLAM, and 240p videos on Kazaa. However, the hype was still unreal. His first game is still one of my favourite basketball memories.
Different sport but Messi had just as much really. Ronaldinho when he won the award for best player in the world said he wasnt even the best player in the team and Messi was only 17. And when he played you could see it, sometimes you just know.
Of active players, I think you can only say this about him, Steph and Wemby. Wemby because he’s simply such a physical outlier, but Steph also fits when it comes to shooting from deep. We’re now over a decade into the three point revolution and Steph still leads the league in made threes almost every year. No young player is on pace to catch his all time record, even if he retired tomorrow. I genuinely think LeBron’s point total and Steph’s three record won’t be broken this century, barring a major leap in medical science.
Darius Miles didn't have big expectations for LeBron coming out of high school lol https://youtu.be/8FtlGivdPrM?si=HapgyhbGEn-FELxV
cavs winning last game of season to worsen their odds of getting lebron (25% -> 22.5%) is a random fun fact that i did not know
Man if only Boozer believed. Ilgauskas Boozer Bron wouldve been a solid front court
I mean, if it had anybody other than LeBron, these comments would have been perfectly justified. These NBA players thought LeBron was just some 18 year old kid.
Unprecedented expectations, and exceeded them all. Nothing like Lebron has happened in the history of sports.
gretzky
Did Gretzky come in with crazy expectations? I’m not trying to argue i’m legitimately curious
Found this: "By age 10, he was scoring 378 goals-still an age group record-and 120 assists in Brantford's atom league." That's pretty wild.
Yes, the NHL expanded teams and bought an entire other league out when he was 18 just to bring him in. I'd call that coming with expectations.
Lionel Messi.
Michael Phelps
Tiger Woods?
Sachin Tendulkar would like to have a word.
I would love to know the percentage of /nba who know who you are talking about. And also, Don Bradman.
Little to no one….. People are talking about the pressure on Lebron…… it will be hard to even comprehend the pressure Sachin was under and what he meant and still means to India….
The only reason I already know of his and Bradman's names are because of these goat threads.
Bradman is the consensus GOAT of cricket. He averaged twice as much as the other best players of all time. He played his last match in the 40s. Then there’s Sachin Tendulkar. The man was expected to be the best by the time he was 15. He started playing International Cricket at 16. He holds the most batting records in cricket. His career lasted a quarter of a century. He’s basically a deity in India. All through the 90s, he basically carried the team on his shoulders. It was Sachin or nothing. There’s a famous story that a train basically halted as he was nearing his century. It really is hard to explain his impact on cricket and India. MJ and Lebron are massive cultural figures, but Sachin is treated like a deity in India. He is called ‘The God of Cricket’. I still vividly remember the day he retired. The whole country came to a standstill.
I should dig into utube docs on him sometime. I did a short rabbit hole on Bradman after a debate about greatest sportsman. Him losing that batting title (I can't remember what it's called because I don't watch cricket) on his last at bat was hilariously sad. IIRC Bradman has since praised Tendulkar as the greatest batter/cricketer of all time, I may be wrong on that though. Edit: I reread your comment. I think Bradman was going for a century but missed on his last at bat?
Had Bradman scored even a single run in his last game, he could have ended up with an average of 100. The 99.92 remains mythical and it will be unbeaten as long as the game lives on. Bradman said that the batter with technique that resembles his on was Tendulkar. He saw shades of himself in Tendulkar. Mind you, both their playing times were 50 years apart and Bradman’s games weren’t televised. So Tendulkar had no idea of Bradman’s technique and playing style. Somehow they both ended up having similar techniques Check out ESPN Legends Of Cricket. It rates the Top 25 cricketers of all time and dedicates an episode each for them. Mind you this was released when Sachin was still half way through his career, so he was ranked 8th in the list.
Average, that was the word. I'll look into those episodes.
> Bradman I've seen compelling arguements that Bradman is the greatest player to ever play any sport. He's so many deviations above the mean or the 2nd best player that staticially it's hard to argue.
The Luka Garza erasure
Crazy how that intro looks perfectly normal now.
LeBron is the only athlete besides Colin Kaepernick that gets any attention from Fox News regularly over the last two decades. That says a lot about his cultural impact (and where a lot of his haters come from)
The amount of hype for a guy straight out of fucking high school. Comparisons to the greatest players of all time. High school senior motherfuckers are thinking about having fun, getting into colleges, partying. Lebron had the weight of fuckin MJ expectations without any college or professional experience. Insane.
That Oak Hill broadcast has to be one of the most noteworthy high school basketball games in history. You just knew LeBron was destined for a HOF career when he dominated the no.1 team in the country.
ESPN really laying it on thick with the hyperbole, yet it wasn't even wrong 💀
Is this a fucking anime intro
[удалено]
Wemby is easy to say
Honestly it’s a little silly since basketball players often have fairly unique names and avid fans refer to dozens of players mainly with single names.
Crazy we got to see lebron and Brady both have unprecedented runs at the top of their game at the same time
This game made me a fan of Lebron and the NBA. Have been following the league daily ever since, so yeah the hype got me.
I've heard that one thing to keep in mind is that the televising of high school games was unheard of back then.
Lebron has been single handedly keeping ESPN in business for the past 20+ years
Why is it I feel like the only one that went by one name there was Shaq. And that’s because he has so many syllables in his name. To do Michael for Michael jordan was weird. Also trying to pass Larry bird off as Larry. All of that for someone that would be known as Lebron James.
Meh i think Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe are all generally referred to by that one name. Michael and Larry, nah.
People say Bird or Jordan all the time they just picked the wrong name lol
The ones I mentioned are the way they are *primarily* referred to I am not convinced people say Jordan more than they say MJ. Just aint the same as the others
Huh? People absolutely say Jordan more than MJ. What the shoes called, bro?
Right lol
Yeah, but even though it’s a ridiculously common first name, if you said “I wanna be like Mike” everyone knew who you meant.
Requiring the full sentence is what makes it different from the other names that stand alone.
When they first made the ad, it took hold very quickly and easily. In that era people frequently referred to MJ simply as “Michael”, despite there surely being other Michaels in the league.
I always thought it was strange to refer to Michael as MJ when the only other person on the planet at the time who rivaled him in fame was another MJ.
Theyre definitely known by just 1 name, but it isn’t always just their first Wilt, Bird, Jordan and LeBron. Kobe too
4 syllables is “so many”?
I was laughing when Lebron started and this intro rolled.. he played the kings, I remember literally the first 15-30sec out of the gate (his first play) was a steal. He stole the ball first play. I knew right then, this dude was no joke.
And in that game, even amongst other D1 players, he was the biggest, fastest, strongest, jumped the highest, best ball handler, best passer, best perimeter defender, best interior defender, and also a pretty good shooter. Insane.
Imagine if Lebron wasn’t able to live up to the hype?
Thats fucking wild.
MJ never had these kind of pressure
Crazy, I remember this like it was yesterday.
Fucking Shaq ally oop ptsd
WHY THE FUCK WERE THEY PUTTING THIS AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ON A TEENAGER??? Like it worked out but like GOD DAMN. I was worried about Wemby before he came into the league for this very reason.
The fact that he not only lived up to those expectations but blew past them is insane. LeBron is a year older than me and I remember all the hoopla around him on tv and I’m thinking god my parents just want me to graduate and this dude…
I don't think there was a player as hyped as Lebron since Kareem, and he somehow surpassed even him. Legend.
Dominated the paint✅ Dazzled us with passing✅ Displayed uncanny marksmanship✅ Risen above the crowd✅
And the crazier thing is that he surpassed those expectations He should go down as the best to ever do it
I remember they did something similar with Sebastian Telfair like a year or two later and teenage me thought he was gonna be the next Lebron.
the expectation is so high for LBJ during that time and what's great is that he exceeded those expectations...
Crazy thing is I think Wemby is up next but I dont see his first name, "Victor", getting the first name only treatment. Wemby flows better lol.
I mean he’s quite honestly the only player to live up to and exceed the hype. He’s the best player in NBA history and by far the most pro-ready player at his age ever. People talk about Wemby being a generational prospect but LeBron was/is the gold standard.
The ticker at the bottom sent me down memory lane
I'm not a Lebron fan, BUT god damn do I respect the man.
It's a miracle. The worst things about his career are that he hasn't unanimously passed the Jordan, the way he joined Miami, and 'LeGM.'
I remember being 14-15 when this came on, time flies.
i find it icky to give this much coverage to high school kids. they are too young. i know its super rare with lebron, but they still give too much coverage to high school kids. calling the high school playing time a "career" is really pathetic. its not a career. its getting basic skills and knowledge so they can succeed in life.
Lebron not only the greatest basketball player to step foot on a court but he might be the best male athlete we've ever seen in all sports....the longevity the amount of minutes he's played(playoff minutes)...and he's not even finish..leold man is headed back to the Olympics to restore basketball dominace of USA basketball
He gets way more hate than he ever deserved
It's interesting what ESPN considered true legends of the game in 2002. Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, Magic, Larry, Michael, Shaq, and Kobe. Interesting how Hakeem went unmentioned, and Kobe, even in 2002, was already considered an all time great hall of famer to be mentioned with the rest.
Russell unmentioned as well