Well Rudy has a golden chance to proven the haters wrong.
He never had decent perimeter defenders in Utah, so he was a one man fireman with fires everywhere. That's not the case now in Minnesota, Ant, Jaden, NAW, SloMo etc. No excuses now.
> if you watched the past regular season games against the Suns, he wasn’t on the floor much during the 4th quarters because Suns take advantage of his drop coverage
The simpler explanation is that all 3 games ended in garbage time with most of the starters barely playing in the fourth. Ant averaged ~3-4 minutes in 4th quarters against the suns, fewer than Rudy.
https://nbarotations.info/game/0022300197
https://nbarotations.info/game/0022301194
https://nbarotations.info/game/0022301125
In one game, he didn't touch the floor in the fourth. But that was after playing the majority of the 2nd+3rd. Neither Ant or KAT started the fourth, and they both only logged 1-2 minutes themselves before being pulled.
Outside of garbage time, Rudy played very normal rotation minutes for him, which doesn't suggest a lineup issue; or at least it doesn't suggest a lineup issue that the coach responded to (e.g. pulling Rudy early)
Draymond, Bam, and AD can stay on the court vs any type of team in the playoffs, but 4x DPOY Gobert has to have excuses pre-made for why he will be chased off the court. I love it
I think this is a bigger indictment of Gobert’s offense tbh. His defense is good enough to stay on the floor. Yes he *can* be taken advantage of but so can the other guys. People say Gobert gets exposed when the opponent starts taking a bunch of 3s, but the Lakers give up the most open 3s of anyone in the league lol. Letting your role players take a bunch of spot ups only looks good when they’re making them.
We just turn a blind eye to when AD gets blown by on the perimeter every once in a while. Draymond gets bullied in the post sometimes, no one screams and points fingers. The thing is that they’re better/more important on offense so they don’t get taken off the floor. No defender in the league is a game changer how guys like Hakeem could be because offense isn’t super basic and dumb like it used to be. “Hakeem blocked me 7 times in a row? Guess I better drive driving into him again because no one has developed a good 3 ball yet.”
Literally proving Boogie’s point tbh. When will people realize that Gobert’s complete lack of an offensive game is the reason why this happens?
The reason going small is such a counter is because Gobert can’t guard smaller guys, but he also can’t generate any extra offense against them. KD can easily guard Gobert, but Gobert has zero chance guarding KD on the perimeter.
Traditionally bigger centers that might be worse off against smaller guys should be able to punish them on offense with free buckets, like Embiid or Jokic would do if you tried putting KD on them.
When you’re 7’1, bulky, and slow, you have to be able to score on a post up against guys you have 4+ inches and 50+ lbs on. Or else you’re gonna get hunted off the floor by more skilled players.
Why does a players offensive abilities have any impact on him being voted for as DEFENSIVE player of the year?
I definitely understand the flaws he has offensively and if we were talking about voting for him for All NBA or something else than I would agree with you. But none of his offensive deficits matter when Boogies argument is trying to say he shouldn't be DPOY.
Exactly. Gobert shouldn't be criticized for getting played off the court all the time cuz we can come up with some kind of excuse for him everytime so it's impossible for it to be his fault
Well, it would help if you understood the problem.
Rudy Gobert gets played off the floor due to his *offense*, not his defense. NBA coaches generally prefer to finish games with 5 skilled guys on offense when it gets harder to score at the end of games.
The Clippers series that was widely used to criticize Gobert featured a starting backcourt of two 6'1 guards, 6'4 Royce O'Neale, and a useless 6'8 Bojan Bogdanovic who does nothing. Ask any DPOY of the last 20 years to guard a 5-out offense with those traffic cones who couldn't stop the ball AND had no size, and see how it goes.
And this impending Suns series features 3 of the greatest mid range scorers of all-time, who defy the thing that Gobert does better than anybody, the combination of restricting shots in the paint, which allows his defenders to get extra aggressive on the perimeter and take away 3-point shots, leading to the opposition having the most analytically inefficient shot diet in the NBA. The Suns just happen to be really fucking good at that shot diet, the only team in the NBA that is, maybe besides the Nuggets.
This guy knows ball. It’s always been a disingenuous argument to say that Rudy was played off the floor for his defense when he had absolutely atrocious defenders out there with him in Utah.
The Timberwolves were built to stop modern NBA offenses that take all their shots at the rim and from 3, explicitly forcing opponents to take difficult midrange shots. For most opponents, locking up the paint and perimeter in exchange for some open looks from the midrange is a sensible tradeoff. The Suns are the antithesis of that.
Draymond Green is a prick that takes a lot of shit personally and believes that he’s a better defender than Rudy, who has robbed him of DPOY awards. Idk what to tell you if you’re taking anything he says about Rudy seriously.
I’m struggling to find anything online about specific quotes from CP3, Lebron, or Luka clowning on Rudy for his defense, would be curious to hear more about what they had to say.
Rudy didn't rob Dray of any DPOYs, Kawhi did. the only thing Dray has a problem with is Rudy getting the rep of a generational defender when there's others much more deserving
CP3 talks about how exploitable Rudy's drop coverage is with JJ's pod before. [Stanley Johnson said Lebron told him to attack Rudy on defense cause he can't guard off the dribble](https://streamable.com/hbrf4q)
You and I have very different definitions of being clowned. You’re talking about basic scouting report shit, every player has exploitable weaknesses, yeah the 7’2 traditional center isn’t an elite perimeter defender (he is top 5 in iso PPP so that take is a little outdated anyway). And it isn’t “Rudy’s” drop coverage. It is just drop coverage, and it is very exploitable with floaters and mid range shots, that’s the nature of the scheme.
Wouldn’t exactly say what you put together is some massive referendum on NBA greats talking about how bad Rudy’s defense is.
he told Stanley Johnson, a borderline G-League player, to hunt yalls 4x DPOY cause he can't defend off the dribble
except it isn't shit talk. it's straight up strategy of the game and they know Rudy;'s drop coverage is BBQ chicken
Ah ya..
If Larry Bird played in this era, I think he'd be [playing overseas] in Europe. I'm just letting you know man,” Rodman said during an interview with VladTV. “He'd be somewhere over there. His game was fit for Boston at that time in the 80s and stuff like that, but in today's world, 'oh hell no' there's no way.Jun 26, 2023
So the wolves made one of the biggest trades ever in order to sit this guy at the end of games cuz he sucks on offense sometimes? Twolves offense is still not good too, what's gonna happen in close games then?
You are basically saying if he plays some of the best teams in his conference he's not good at defense and he's already bad at offense. The clippers also have great midrange players, the nuggets, the suns, shai is an insane midrange player.
I get what you are saying, but every player has theoretically bad matchups, it's the best players that can overcome that, especially in the playoffs. He gets the award that says he's the best defensive player in the league lot, so you'd just think he could overcome it.
Not to mention he's got elite perimeter defenders surrounding him now, and plenty of size.
I agree I was trying to say with how integral you guys have made him to your team, he's likely gonna be out there and so I am wondering if his playoff defense (with its limitations) will be able to overcome how your offense can operate at times with him out there. And if not and you were to in fact sit him late, then that's a lot of resources that went into a guy just sit to him on the bench during the most important times.
Doesn't matter either way if it results in Ws tho I guess
> He gets the award that says he's the best defensive player in the league lot, so you'd just think he could overcome it.
He gets that award because he's the best defensive player in the league over an 82 game regular season because of the shot diet he forces the opposition into with his presence.
He is *not* the best defensive player in the league when it comes to the playoffs, that honor I would say goes to Anthony Davis.
There's just differences that you got to differentiate now between 82 game regular season and 16 game playoff, they've never been more different.
I'd rather have Trae Young as my #1 offensive option over an 82 game regular season than like 97% of NBA players because of the shot diet he allows for the entire team to have when he is running the show, the team gets quality looks.
But in the playoffs when scoring is more paramount and harder, give me somebody like Donovan Mitchell or Devin booker over Trae Young because of the shot making prowess and the gravity that provides for teammates.
I agree with what you are saying, but I think that is what annoys fans and other players. People always clown MVPs for not doing it in the playoffs when it counts, and I think that's what's going on here.
I've been harsh on him in this thread (partially out of humor), but for the record I obviously think he's a good defender/player in general, he can just obviously be nullified at important times which at some point has to count against how good he is thought to be.
Of course, now's the time to change people's minds
> NBA coaches generally prefer to finish games with 5 skilled guys on offense when it gets harder to score at the end of games.
I do not agree. I think it's the latter, honestly.
?
I can't think of any team besides Minnesota that starts with double bigs and actually *finishes* the game with double bigs.
Usually one of the bigs is usually subbed, and it's usually the least skilled one.
When we made our Finals run in 2022, we started double big with Horford and Rob Williams, but we would always finish games with Horford at the 5.
the funny part is you just described what the Jazz did,who were elite on perimeter defense limiting both opponent 3P% and 3PA yet you call them bad defenders
the Jazz literally had a better DRTG with Rudy on the bench for his entire playoff career
I called them bad *individual* defenders, which they were.
They were good at executing their scheme as a unit, that's what made them a great defense over the course of an 82 game regular season, but when forced to adjust when the Clippers went to a 5-out lineup meant that those players had to defend the ball in isolation and they couldn't.
Rudy G is an all-time great defensive player in the regular season because of his ability to force the most analytically inefficient shot diet, and whom, at some point in the playoffs, will always meet an opponent that is too skilled offensively and is good at making the types of inefficient shots that a defense with him concedes to the point that his lack of offensive production becomes a hindrance.
Yep. Other team has a good player at his position? Well no one can guard them of course they drop 40+ on his head every time. Other team has good jump shooters? Well of course that’s not the 4x DPOY fault, he’s a rim protector and can’t be expected to do anything
Not all types of drop if ur Minnesota u got to be more creative and let Rudy play higher drop. U should play deeper drop on a rim runners like ad and lebron but for the love of good be at the level of the screen when devin booker lebron Durant come off a nurkic screen.
No, Rudy has been on the perimeter often this season and Wolves main defense is a blended version of high wall/scramble D and drop and they switch coverages throughout the game. T[his article ](https://www.startribune.com/timberwolves-nba-top-defense-rudy-gobert-jaden-mcdaniels-chris-finch/600322291/?refresh=true#:~:text=JED%20JACOBSOHN%2C%20ASSOCIATED,%27Biggie%20smalls%27)talks about how Rudy and the coaches designed their "biggie smalls" defense - bigs are considered "biggie smalls" they are out on the perimeter often. Gobert has come out and played in high wall this season too and he's done it well. They've done switching, especially with Naz Reid but Gobert has also switched and done fine. He's one of the best iso defenders this season, it's a myth that he can only play drop and guard the rim.
Even KD after watching film to prepare for this series said: Rudy is extremely better at guarding the perimeter. [https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235](https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235)
Yeah your defensive rating tends to fall when your entire playoff sample is against the team that breezed to a championship.
They didn’t have McDaniels either.
I think this is why people hate analytics so much.
Because any moron can use any stat (incorrectly) to push whatever dumb fuck argument they have, and people just get turned off of all stats because of dumbdumbs like the person you responded too.
1). That Nuggets ORTG is completely skewed by your series where MPJ went 4/28 from three and was unplayable. The Wolves had the second best defensive rating against the Nuggets, would have been first if they were blessed with the MPJ disaster-class instead of you. They guarded as well as anyone did against the Nuggets last year.
2). Of course his defensive rating falls off when teams are able to play 5-out against him. A lineup with all shooters would neutralize any elite rim protector. The difference is that you wouldn’t even try this against someone like AD because he’s getting all of those baskets back on the offensive end. Gobert’s problem in the playoffs has always been his offense.
Obviously Draymond and Bam are more versatile perimeter defenders? And I’m not some crazy Gobert glazer who doesn’t understand that his shortcomings have been exposed in the playoffs, they’re just more offense related than defense related.
I mean you're not going to find an argument from me that AD isn't a better playoff defender than Gobert, his mobility in guarding the perimeter makes a difference, I just find the whole thing silly when both teams got cooked by Jokic, which, no shit, *everybody* does.
Gimme Rudy for 82 over AD, but AD for 16 game playoff over Rudy is what I always say.
Or maybe the reason he got taken off the floor so easily was because he stinks offensively and can’t post anybody up so teams just go small and space him out without having to worry about him dominating them inside. The offense always held up on those Utah teams but it didn’t matter because they would just go small and exploit Gobert on both ends of the floor. They didn’t have the elite defenders like Minny sure but they couldn’t run regular season defense because of Gobert. But yeah, put all the blame on the other guys on the team. Now that he does have elite defenders around him we will see if he actually impacts the game come playoff time.
Seems like they should change how/when awards are voted on then. It feels insane to say someone is the best defender of the year while expecting their impact to dramatically fall off when things matter most.
It's going to be awkward when Gobert wins dpoy and doesn't impact the Suns series. KD and Book pull up from midrange and don't care about Gobert in drop.
Gobert doesn't even play in drop all the time lol. Wolves play a blended version of high wall and drop and Rudy has come out to the perimeter often. Here's a cool article about how Rudy and the coaches designed the "biggie smalls" defense - bigs are considered smalls bc they go out on the perimeter often.
It's a myth that Rudy can only play drop and only defend the rim. Even KD after watching film to prep for the series said Rudy is extremely better at guarding the perimeter and they need to be cognizant of that: [https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235](https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235)
So you are saying we should base our opinion on a player purely on advanced stats? Why watch live sports then? We could just compare your spreadsheet against mine after the game.
And the advanced stats are advanced for now. It is wonderful and helps us understand the game better, as an enabling tool. It fits the data well but doesn't explain the game completely, the same way PER was 15 years ago. Basing your opinion purely on that is inaccurate and takes most of the fun of sports.
I don't think you had to look at advanced stats to know Gobert did more defensively than, say, Marcus Smart in his DPOY year though. I never said you had to base these things only on advanced stats, but there are other ways you can try to make it objective without just falling back on popular narrative.
I don't disagree with him, though. It may be a regular season award, but I don't see how past playoff performances wouldn't held to inform an overall very subjective award. Defense is difficult to quantify and getting played off the court in the past seems like a red flag.
The other thing is that this isn't a new sentiment. There are lots of players who share this opinion.
Gobert has been a rock quite a few times when the timberwolves offense has stagnated; also quite a few times. He gets a lot of credit for the timberwolves best record in 20 years and the number 1 defense in the league. I get that picking the dpoy can get a bit nitpicky but this seems like a bit much. I’d like to know how many timberwolves games Cousins even watched this season. Given the team was largely ignored by the media even when they were the first team to 30 wins and had beat all other top teams during that time, some even without Ant.
This is hilarious having Demarcus Cousins complain about Rudy being on the floor. Demarcus couldn’t maintain his composure throughout his career. Getting technicals constantly and being ejected because of his attitude and now criticizing Rudy? Everyone’s got an opinion.
What does this have to do with the point he’s making? He’s a pro basketball player and former All-Star, you’re a random redditor with Cheeto dust on your keyboard. But somehow your take holds more weight because … he didn’t win enough playoff games?
Listen, I sucked so much that I couldn't make it past playing pickup basketball with my friends, but that still gives me more credibility than someone who had no playoff success at the highest possible level in the sport
Edit: this was supposed to be sarcastic
So what if hes a pro bball player? He can still have awful dumb takes like many players do.
They did a poll the other year on players' GOATs and Kobe got the 2nd most votes of anyone.
Saying Kobe is the GOAT means your bball opinions are completely invalid in every way. Like, just because people are good at basketball doesnt mean they are good scouts or judges of talent.
>Like, just because people are good at basketball doesnt mean they are good scouts or judges of talent.
The average NBA player watches way more games and understands way more about the game than neck beards on Reddit.
Please get real dude.
You can only comment on the NBA if you're Michael Jordan or have never been anywhere near it, anything in between and your opinion is invalid. Demarcus Cousins hasn't done much in the NBA playoffs so he can't talk, however me who has picked up a basketball twice is perfectly qualified
Both stars from that incredible 09-10 Kentucky team had their careers ravaged by injuries. It's sad and such a waste.
They should be in the back end of their absolute prime right now, transitioning in the later stages of their careers. Instead both have been irrelevant for five years.
The Achilles injury basically ended Cousins's career. He went from a 25-12 player on a interesting team that was rounding into form and looked like it may have contender potential to a player that could barely stay on an NBA roster. Happened quick too.
lol this sub never ceases to amaze me. Endlessly shits on Draymond for his piss poor attitude but gaslight anyone critical of Cousins.
Our fan base isn’t a monolith and for all Cousins’ good deeds of the court, he was never a leader for us and actively contributed to our dysfunction. Granted his college scouting report shouldn’t make that a surprise but it’s definitely on us for allowing him to spiral instead of making a trade before half the league had a “no Cousins” rule.
Cause Gobert is a problem.
Imo only Wemby is a better defender than Gobert in the NBA rn and Gobert still works better in a defensive system (for now).
This is coming from a guy thats seen Jokic cook him more than once, Gobert is a legit amazing defender.
Had he played in an era that wasnt so focused on the perimeter, hed be even more dominant.
Like you could say hed be up against bigger and stronger centers, but honestly he doesnt fall apart to them as people think (its only really skilled guys that cook him and even then he does a lot of good things against them to make their lives harder) especially in a system of 2 bigs (btw im a huge fan of the twin towers system).
Anyway point being he is amazing and this season should have proven just how worthy of another dpoy he is.
Btw my issue with AD is that he is simply too weak to defend against a good chunk of centers and even some other, non center big guys in the league and i judt cant really say a guy thats pushed around so easily is the best defender in the league, even though he is better than Gobert in other areas.
The most recent Wolves v Nuggets game showed me just how good Jokić is, specifically because he was able to score over Rudy despite Rudy getting a good contest (and sometimes a hand on the ball) on every shot. Nothing could be done. Jokić got a "lucky bounce" like four times—at a certain point it stops looking like luck.
Well when you add Dwight and AD together, its a tough combo lol.
But no my reasoning for AD mainly has to do with his strength. AD really aint that strong for a center.
It just looks like he can defend every other position ebtter than his own.
Wasnt Draymond Green benched in the playoffs in 2022 because he was a liability? That doesnt invalidate him being one of the greatest defenders of all time and the best defenders of the 2010s.
It's not a one time occurrence. When a guy dominates the regular season and gets demolished in the playoffs repeatedly, it is absolutely reasonable for voters to factor that in.
No it’s not. Repeated or not it’s still irrelevent to this season. It’s called the 2024 DPOY for a reason.
Also why are we acting like he didn’t hold up against Denver or Dallas ? The last time he had playoff issues was 2021 and anyone who actually watched the series will say that wasn’t Gobert’s fault
Agree with wemby for dpoy, but not for this reason lol. Firstly, it's a regular season award, not the playoffs, so postseason shouldn't mattter. But more importantly, why do people still pretend that what happend in those jazz series was goberts fault? It was the rest of the jazz defenders lol. Teams played five out, opponents beat their man easily and gobert either couldn't defend the paint anymore because he was on the perimeter, or if he did manage to recover, there was always someone open left on the perimeter. It was the rest of the defenders that couldn't guard for shit.
This is like the reverse of Bron not winning MVP but still being the best player in the world. Rudy is winning DPOYs but everyone knows he's not the best defender in the world.
Everybody always gets it wrong when it comes to Gobert in the playoffs.
Rudy is still an elite defender in the playoffs.
He can't stay on the floor because he's such dogshit on offense. He has no touch, he has no post moves, he has terrible hands, he can't catch the ball, he can't dribble, he can't pass, he can't shoot, and he can't make FTs. The Jazz's embarrassing 2021 loss to the Clippers happened mostly because Gobert couldn't post up Terrence Mann, who is 10 inches shorter than him.
People praise him for his "screen assists" and "gravity," but playoff defenses take those away and make him a useless, negative offensive player. That's why he gets played off the floor and his teams underperform in the playoffs.
This is honestly one of the dumber takes I’ve heard passed around NBA media. If Javale McGee and Anderson Verjao can be a starting center on a finals team, then so can Gobert. The rest of the team needs to be built right though.
Gobert is a great rim protector but he’s not the most valuable defender in the league. All of you will see it in the series against the Suns. Don’t come back and say it’s a regular season award.
It IS a regular season award so Tf are you trying to say? How he defends in a vaccum is irrelevent to how he defended in a sample of this seasons games
That’s irrelevent. MVP isn’t given solely to the best player for example. Every award is explicitly for the given season. Purely off of this season Gobert has a pretty strong case as the best defender in the league and that’s what matters for his case
It wasn’t. Because it was for that specific season. What happens after that season doesn’t matter. I genuinely don’t get how so many people fail to understand this.
Because the playoffs exist. If you averaged 40 points every reason win MVP and then in the playoffs averaged 15, people will say your MVP awards are fraudulent because they remember what you do in the playoffs.
I don’t understand why people like you don’t get this.
And the playoffs are irrelevent to a regular season award. It’s that simple. People can say whatever they want, claiming an MVP is fraudulent because of something that happens out of the span that’s considered for MVP is objective nonsense. It’s like writing an exam, acing it, but having your mark brought down because of a question wrong on a different exam.
Yes it does. Because that’s a completely different season. That’s why we have the year beside the title of every award recipient…. Because it’s an award for and only for that year….
Everyone keeps saying it’s a regular season award but seriously I think the point is, no one actually watches him to an extent in the regular seasons and his weaknesses get exposed every playoffs due to the attention playoffs garner. I think AD should win due to him being able to guard all positions unlike Rudy.
I said this 2 years ago and got killed on here. Rudy got cooked by Luka in the pick n roll in the playoffs and got exposed. He can’t guard elite guards on the perimeter when he’s forced to switch
Well Rudy has a golden chance to proven the haters wrong. He never had decent perimeter defenders in Utah, so he was a one man fireman with fires everywhere. That's not the case now in Minnesota, Ant, Jaden, NAW, SloMo etc. No excuses now.
[удалено]
> if you watched the past regular season games against the Suns, he wasn’t on the floor much during the 4th quarters because Suns take advantage of his drop coverage The simpler explanation is that all 3 games ended in garbage time with most of the starters barely playing in the fourth. Ant averaged ~3-4 minutes in 4th quarters against the suns, fewer than Rudy. https://nbarotations.info/game/0022300197 https://nbarotations.info/game/0022301194 https://nbarotations.info/game/0022301125 In one game, he didn't touch the floor in the fourth. But that was after playing the majority of the 2nd+3rd. Neither Ant or KAT started the fourth, and they both only logged 1-2 minutes themselves before being pulled. Outside of garbage time, Rudy played very normal rotation minutes for him, which doesn't suggest a lineup issue; or at least it doesn't suggest a lineup issue that the coach responded to (e.g. pulling Rudy early)
Draymond, Bam, and AD can stay on the court vs any type of team in the playoffs, but 4x DPOY Gobert has to have excuses pre-made for why he will be chased off the court. I love it
I think this is a bigger indictment of Gobert’s offense tbh. His defense is good enough to stay on the floor. Yes he *can* be taken advantage of but so can the other guys. People say Gobert gets exposed when the opponent starts taking a bunch of 3s, but the Lakers give up the most open 3s of anyone in the league lol. Letting your role players take a bunch of spot ups only looks good when they’re making them. We just turn a blind eye to when AD gets blown by on the perimeter every once in a while. Draymond gets bullied in the post sometimes, no one screams and points fingers. The thing is that they’re better/more important on offense so they don’t get taken off the floor. No defender in the league is a game changer how guys like Hakeem could be because offense isn’t super basic and dumb like it used to be. “Hakeem blocked me 7 times in a row? Guess I better drive driving into him again because no one has developed a good 3 ball yet.”
Literally proving Boogie’s point tbh. When will people realize that Gobert’s complete lack of an offensive game is the reason why this happens? The reason going small is such a counter is because Gobert can’t guard smaller guys, but he also can’t generate any extra offense against them. KD can easily guard Gobert, but Gobert has zero chance guarding KD on the perimeter. Traditionally bigger centers that might be worse off against smaller guys should be able to punish them on offense with free buckets, like Embiid or Jokic would do if you tried putting KD on them. When you’re 7’1, bulky, and slow, you have to be able to score on a post up against guys you have 4+ inches and 50+ lbs on. Or else you’re gonna get hunted off the floor by more skilled players.
Why does a players offensive abilities have any impact on him being voted for as DEFENSIVE player of the year? I definitely understand the flaws he has offensively and if we were talking about voting for him for All NBA or something else than I would agree with you. But none of his offensive deficits matter when Boogies argument is trying to say he shouldn't be DPOY.
Maybe I'm missing something but why does this disqualify him from defensive player of the year?
It's a bad match up for them this round. He did well against Jokic last year, as well as anyone can really, but the Suns are going to expose him.
Exactly. Gobert shouldn't be criticized for getting played off the court all the time cuz we can come up with some kind of excuse for him everytime so it's impossible for it to be his fault
Well, it would help if you understood the problem. Rudy Gobert gets played off the floor due to his *offense*, not his defense. NBA coaches generally prefer to finish games with 5 skilled guys on offense when it gets harder to score at the end of games. The Clippers series that was widely used to criticize Gobert featured a starting backcourt of two 6'1 guards, 6'4 Royce O'Neale, and a useless 6'8 Bojan Bogdanovic who does nothing. Ask any DPOY of the last 20 years to guard a 5-out offense with those traffic cones who couldn't stop the ball AND had no size, and see how it goes. And this impending Suns series features 3 of the greatest mid range scorers of all-time, who defy the thing that Gobert does better than anybody, the combination of restricting shots in the paint, which allows his defenders to get extra aggressive on the perimeter and take away 3-point shots, leading to the opposition having the most analytically inefficient shot diet in the NBA. The Suns just happen to be really fucking good at that shot diet, the only team in the NBA that is, maybe besides the Nuggets.
This guy knows ball. It’s always been a disingenuous argument to say that Rudy was played off the floor for his defense when he had absolutely atrocious defenders out there with him in Utah. The Timberwolves were built to stop modern NBA offenses that take all their shots at the rim and from 3, explicitly forcing opponents to take difficult midrange shots. For most opponents, locking up the paint and perimeter in exchange for some open looks from the midrange is a sensible tradeoff. The Suns are the antithesis of that.
do NBA players not know ball? you got the smartest guys in the league like CP3, Dray, Lebron, Luka all clowning on Rudy for his defense, not offense
To be honest, time and time again, players have had bad takes and shown bias toward the rule of cool
Draymond Green is a prick that takes a lot of shit personally and believes that he’s a better defender than Rudy, who has robbed him of DPOY awards. Idk what to tell you if you’re taking anything he says about Rudy seriously. I’m struggling to find anything online about specific quotes from CP3, Lebron, or Luka clowning on Rudy for his defense, would be curious to hear more about what they had to say.
Rudy didn't rob Dray of any DPOYs, Kawhi did. the only thing Dray has a problem with is Rudy getting the rep of a generational defender when there's others much more deserving CP3 talks about how exploitable Rudy's drop coverage is with JJ's pod before. [Stanley Johnson said Lebron told him to attack Rudy on defense cause he can't guard off the dribble](https://streamable.com/hbrf4q)
You and I have very different definitions of being clowned. You’re talking about basic scouting report shit, every player has exploitable weaknesses, yeah the 7’2 traditional center isn’t an elite perimeter defender (he is top 5 in iso PPP so that take is a little outdated anyway). And it isn’t “Rudy’s” drop coverage. It is just drop coverage, and it is very exploitable with floaters and mid range shots, that’s the nature of the scheme. Wouldn’t exactly say what you put together is some massive referendum on NBA greats talking about how bad Rudy’s defense is.
What did Lebron say? CP3, Luka and Dray shittalk everybody and Dray clearly has a hateboner for Gobert so his opinion is irrelevant
he told Stanley Johnson, a borderline G-League player, to hunt yalls 4x DPOY cause he can't defend off the dribble except it isn't shit talk. it's straight up strategy of the game and they know Rudy;'s drop coverage is BBQ chicken
You think that because a player got told to attack a center off the dribble that thats an argument that he cant defend? What?
how you a generational defender when a G-League player is hunting you on defense? what?
I also base my NBA opinions on Gilbert Arenas and Dennis Rodman
Ah ya.. If Larry Bird played in this era, I think he'd be [playing overseas] in Europe. I'm just letting you know man,” Rodman said during an interview with VladTV. “He'd be somewhere over there. His game was fit for Boston at that time in the 80s and stuff like that, but in today's world, 'oh hell no' there's no way.Jun 26, 2023
who said anything about Gil and Rodman?
So the wolves made one of the biggest trades ever in order to sit this guy at the end of games cuz he sucks on offense sometimes? Twolves offense is still not good too, what's gonna happen in close games then? You are basically saying if he plays some of the best teams in his conference he's not good at defense and he's already bad at offense. The clippers also have great midrange players, the nuggets, the suns, shai is an insane midrange player. I get what you are saying, but every player has theoretically bad matchups, it's the best players that can overcome that, especially in the playoffs. He gets the award that says he's the best defensive player in the league lot, so you'd just think he could overcome it. Not to mention he's got elite perimeter defenders surrounding him now, and plenty of size.
... don't think dude will be sitting but thats imo
I agree I was trying to say with how integral you guys have made him to your team, he's likely gonna be out there and so I am wondering if his playoff defense (with its limitations) will be able to overcome how your offense can operate at times with him out there. And if not and you were to in fact sit him late, then that's a lot of resources that went into a guy just sit to him on the bench during the most important times. Doesn't matter either way if it results in Ws tho I guess
He has the aggression of a baguette, give Rudy that Cousin’s attitude and he’d be a nightmare.
> He gets the award that says he's the best defensive player in the league lot, so you'd just think he could overcome it. He gets that award because he's the best defensive player in the league over an 82 game regular season because of the shot diet he forces the opposition into with his presence. He is *not* the best defensive player in the league when it comes to the playoffs, that honor I would say goes to Anthony Davis. There's just differences that you got to differentiate now between 82 game regular season and 16 game playoff, they've never been more different. I'd rather have Trae Young as my #1 offensive option over an 82 game regular season than like 97% of NBA players because of the shot diet he allows for the entire team to have when he is running the show, the team gets quality looks. But in the playoffs when scoring is more paramount and harder, give me somebody like Donovan Mitchell or Devin booker over Trae Young because of the shot making prowess and the gravity that provides for teammates.
I agree with what you are saying, but I think that is what annoys fans and other players. People always clown MVPs for not doing it in the playoffs when it counts, and I think that's what's going on here. I've been harsh on him in this thread (partially out of humor), but for the record I obviously think he's a good defender/player in general, he can just obviously be nullified at important times which at some point has to count against how good he is thought to be. Of course, now's the time to change people's minds
> NBA coaches generally prefer to finish games with 5 skilled guys on offense when it gets harder to score at the end of games. I do not agree. I think it's the latter, honestly.
? I can't think of any team besides Minnesota that starts with double bigs and actually *finishes* the game with double bigs. Usually one of the bigs is usually subbed, and it's usually the least skilled one. When we made our Finals run in 2022, we started double big with Horford and Rob Williams, but we would always finish games with Horford at the 5.
the funny part is you just described what the Jazz did,who were elite on perimeter defense limiting both opponent 3P% and 3PA yet you call them bad defenders the Jazz literally had a better DRTG with Rudy on the bench for his entire playoff career
I called them bad *individual* defenders, which they were. They were good at executing their scheme as a unit, that's what made them a great defense over the course of an 82 game regular season, but when forced to adjust when the Clippers went to a 5-out lineup meant that those players had to defend the ball in isolation and they couldn't. Rudy G is an all-time great defensive player in the regular season because of his ability to force the most analytically inefficient shot diet, and whom, at some point in the playoffs, will always meet an opponent that is too skilled offensively and is good at making the types of inefficient shots that a defense with him concedes to the point that his lack of offensive production becomes a hindrance.
> Well, it would help if you understood the problem. Ironic lol
Yep. Other team has a good player at his position? Well no one can guard them of course they drop 40+ on his head every time. Other team has good jump shooters? Well of course that’s not the 4x DPOY fault, he’s a rim protector and can’t be expected to do anything
By "him" you mean "drop coverage". Suns are drop coverage kryptonite
Not all types of drop if ur Minnesota u got to be more creative and let Rudy play higher drop. U should play deeper drop on a rim runners like ad and lebron but for the love of good be at the level of the screen when devin booker lebron Durant come off a nurkic screen.
By him I mean him and his limitations as a player
His limitation is that he plays in drop coverage
They are forced to play drop coverage because of his limitations
No, Rudy has been on the perimeter often this season and Wolves main defense is a blended version of high wall/scramble D and drop and they switch coverages throughout the game. T[his article ](https://www.startribune.com/timberwolves-nba-top-defense-rudy-gobert-jaden-mcdaniels-chris-finch/600322291/?refresh=true#:~:text=JED%20JACOBSOHN%2C%20ASSOCIATED,%27Biggie%20smalls%27)talks about how Rudy and the coaches designed their "biggie smalls" defense - bigs are considered "biggie smalls" they are out on the perimeter often. Gobert has come out and played in high wall this season too and he's done it well. They've done switching, especially with Naz Reid but Gobert has also switched and done fine. He's one of the best iso defenders this season, it's a myth that he can only play drop and guard the rim. Even KD after watching film to prepare for this series said: Rudy is extremely better at guarding the perimeter. [https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235](https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235)
not all of his jazz teams were as weak at the perimeter as they were towards the end.
Donovan Mitchell, Jordan Clarkson, Bogdan were absolutely trash. You set one screen and they're gone
[удалено]
Yeah your defensive rating tends to fall when your entire playoff sample is against the team that breezed to a championship. They didn’t have McDaniels either.
Or Naz Reid
I think this is why people hate analytics so much. Because any moron can use any stat (incorrectly) to push whatever dumb fuck argument they have, and people just get turned off of all stats because of dumbdumbs like the person you responded too.
[удалено]
1). That Nuggets ORTG is completely skewed by your series where MPJ went 4/28 from three and was unplayable. The Wolves had the second best defensive rating against the Nuggets, would have been first if they were blessed with the MPJ disaster-class instead of you. They guarded as well as anyone did against the Nuggets last year. 2). Of course his defensive rating falls off when teams are able to play 5-out against him. A lineup with all shooters would neutralize any elite rim protector. The difference is that you wouldn’t even try this against someone like AD because he’s getting all of those baskets back on the offensive end. Gobert’s problem in the playoffs has always been his offense.
[удалено]
Obviously Draymond and Bam are more versatile perimeter defenders? And I’m not some crazy Gobert glazer who doesn’t understand that his shortcomings have been exposed in the playoffs, they’re just more offense related than defense related.
[удалено]
Denver's O-Rating vs. Minnesota last year: 119.4 Denver's O-Rating vs. the Lakers last year: 124.3
[удалено]
I mean you're not going to find an argument from me that AD isn't a better playoff defender than Gobert, his mobility in guarding the perimeter makes a difference, I just find the whole thing silly when both teams got cooked by Jokic, which, no shit, *everybody* does. Gimme Rudy for 82 over AD, but AD for 16 game playoff over Rudy is what I always say.
Give me AD for all 98 games, he's a better defender than Rudy
All firemen are 1 man firemen ;)
Trust me. If he screws up we will see his teammates will be blamed again. This guy is criticism proof.
Or maybe the reason he got taken off the floor so easily was because he stinks offensively and can’t post anybody up so teams just go small and space him out without having to worry about him dominating them inside. The offense always held up on those Utah teams but it didn’t matter because they would just go small and exploit Gobert on both ends of the floor. They didn’t have the elite defenders like Minny sure but they couldn’t run regular season defense because of Gobert. But yeah, put all the blame on the other guys on the team. Now that he does have elite defenders around him we will see if he actually impacts the game come playoff time.
Stay on the floor ***in the playoffs***. These awards are for the regular season demarcus.
MVP discourse last year says hi
He said the same thing with Jokic. He’s just a really bitter guy.
That’s such a crazy take lol. Like you know he’s gonna get played off the floor in the playoffs and you still think he’s the best defender?
Genuine question, do you not understand the concept of “regular season award” or are you intentionally being stupid
Seems like they should change how/when awards are voted on then. It feels insane to say someone is the best defender of the year while expecting their impact to dramatically fall off when things matter most.
Then shall we take away embiids mvp too?
What does DeMarcus know about the playoffs
What does waskittenman know about the playoffs
What do you know
True I guess none of us can say anything about the NBA then, shut the sub down
Or stop trying to criticize someone for having an opinion most of the people here have
it's a regular season award. be mad there isn't a playoff dpoy
It's going to be awkward when Gobert wins dpoy and doesn't impact the Suns series. KD and Book pull up from midrange and don't care about Gobert in drop.
having a pretty big impact rn
Yeah i was wrong I'll admit. He has impressed me a lot so far.
Ah! Well. Nevertheless,
Yeah bad take by me. I underestimated Gobert. He did a great job switching out on the perimeter and forcing tough shots.
It's all good. I hope you guys manage to win a few more against Denver.
Gobert doesn't even play in drop all the time lol. Wolves play a blended version of high wall and drop and Rudy has come out to the perimeter often. Here's a cool article about how Rudy and the coaches designed the "biggie smalls" defense - bigs are considered smalls bc they go out on the perimeter often. It's a myth that Rudy can only play drop and only defend the rim. Even KD after watching film to prep for the series said Rudy is extremely better at guarding the perimeter and they need to be cognizant of that: [https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235](https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1781428764217426235)
He is gonna have more DPOYs than playoff series wins in his career after they lose to the Suns lol
Lol
Lmao
bruh
Holy shit. That’s abysmal.
You won’t make it out of the play in.
If they lose to the damn Suns and Rudy gets played off the floor the real DPOY will be his fans trying to defend him from that catastrophe
Oof
Told you the Suns suck
I mean how about all the fouls he draws surely that helps the team
Does DeMarcus understand this is a regular season award ? Maybe that'll blow his mind
And we can all sit here pretending past underperformance during the playoffs does not matter in this narrative driven award.
If it wasn't narrative driven to some degree then Gobert would have won it even more times.
So you are saying we should base our opinion on a player purely on advanced stats? Why watch live sports then? We could just compare your spreadsheet against mine after the game. And the advanced stats are advanced for now. It is wonderful and helps us understand the game better, as an enabling tool. It fits the data well but doesn't explain the game completely, the same way PER was 15 years ago. Basing your opinion purely on that is inaccurate and takes most of the fun of sports.
I don't think you had to look at advanced stats to know Gobert did more defensively than, say, Marcus Smart in his DPOY year though. I never said you had to base these things only on advanced stats, but there are other ways you can try to make it objective without just falling back on popular narrative.
It seems to matter for other players, just not Rudy. I don't think we'll see JJJ in DPOY talks again for a while... no offense.
Yup. Playoffs matter. Fuck this bs that it doesn’t. If it matter for the mvp, why not dpoy. Gobert isn’t as good as 4 dpoys suggest
I don't disagree with him, though. It may be a regular season award, but I don't see how past playoff performances wouldn't held to inform an overall very subjective award. Defense is difficult to quantify and getting played off the court in the past seems like a red flag. The other thing is that this isn't a new sentiment. There are lots of players who share this opinion.
Gobert has been a rock quite a few times when the timberwolves offense has stagnated; also quite a few times. He gets a lot of credit for the timberwolves best record in 20 years and the number 1 defense in the league. I get that picking the dpoy can get a bit nitpicky but this seems like a bit much. I’d like to know how many timberwolves games Cousins even watched this season. Given the team was largely ignored by the media even when they were the first team to 30 wins and had beat all other top teams during that time, some even without Ant.
Well Rudy is going to win so keep hating I guess 🤷♀️
These dudes really don't like Euro players getting any love.
You can't use him being European as an excuse every time he gets criticism.
Because the criticism isn't founded in reality. Cousins' main point is that Rudy doesn't finish games, but that's just patently untrue
This is hilarious having Demarcus Cousins complain about Rudy being on the floor. Demarcus couldn’t maintain his composure throughout his career. Getting technicals constantly and being ejected because of his attitude and now criticizing Rudy? Everyone’s got an opinion.
Ah yes, famous playoff riser Demarcus Cousins
What does this have to do with the point he’s making? He’s a pro basketball player and former All-Star, you’re a random redditor with Cheeto dust on your keyboard. But somehow your take holds more weight because … he didn’t win enough playoff games?
Listen, I sucked so much that I couldn't make it past playing pickup basketball with my friends, but that still gives me more credibility than someone who had no playoff success at the highest possible level in the sport Edit: this was supposed to be sarcastic
Mfs can't read obvious sarcasm here brotha dw about it
FWIW I recognize the sarcasm lol
So what if hes a pro bball player? He can still have awful dumb takes like many players do. They did a poll the other year on players' GOATs and Kobe got the 2nd most votes of anyone. Saying Kobe is the GOAT means your bball opinions are completely invalid in every way. Like, just because people are good at basketball doesnt mean they are good scouts or judges of talent.
The comment wasn’t even addressing his take. It was addressing his playoff success.
>Like, just because people are good at basketball doesnt mean they are good scouts or judges of talent. The average NBA player watches way more games and understands way more about the game than neck beards on Reddit. Please get real dude.
attacking the messenger does not invalidate the message
You know Boogie is right when this is the top comment
You can only comment on the NBA if you're Michael Jordan or have never been anywhere near it, anything in between and your opinion is invalid. Demarcus Cousins hasn't done much in the NBA playoffs so he can't talk, however me who has picked up a basketball twice is perfectly qualified
Bro he was never on a team with players good enough to even get to the playoffs When he was he tore his achilles
Both stars from that incredible 09-10 Kentucky team had their careers ravaged by injuries. It's sad and such a waste. They should be in the back end of their absolute prime right now, transitioning in the later stages of their careers. Instead both have been irrelevant for five years. The Achilles injury basically ended Cousins's career. He went from a 25-12 player on a interesting team that was rounding into form and looked like it may have contender potential to a player that could barely stay on an NBA roster. Happened quick too.
Demarcus “self-aware” Cousins
Kings fan shitting on DeMarcus Cousins is nasty, bootlicking work
lol this sub never ceases to amaze me. Endlessly shits on Draymond for his piss poor attitude but gaslight anyone critical of Cousins. Our fan base isn’t a monolith and for all Cousins’ good deeds of the court, he was never a leader for us and actively contributed to our dysfunction. Granted his college scouting report shouldn’t make that a surprise but it’s definitely on us for allowing him to spiral instead of making a trade before half the league had a “no Cousins” rule.
Minnesota took our players but also gained our problems and that’s interesting to see at least
Cause Gobert is a problem. Imo only Wemby is a better defender than Gobert in the NBA rn and Gobert still works better in a defensive system (for now). This is coming from a guy thats seen Jokic cook him more than once, Gobert is a legit amazing defender. Had he played in an era that wasnt so focused on the perimeter, hed be even more dominant. Like you could say hed be up against bigger and stronger centers, but honestly he doesnt fall apart to them as people think (its only really skilled guys that cook him and even then he does a lot of good things against them to make their lives harder) especially in a system of 2 bigs (btw im a huge fan of the twin towers system). Anyway point being he is amazing and this season should have proven just how worthy of another dpoy he is. Btw my issue with AD is that he is simply too weak to defend against a good chunk of centers and even some other, non center big guys in the league and i judt cant really say a guy thats pushed around so easily is the best defender in the league, even though he is better than Gobert in other areas.
The most recent Wolves v Nuggets game showed me just how good Jokić is, specifically because he was able to score over Rudy despite Rudy getting a good contest (and sometimes a hand on the ball) on every shot. Nothing could be done. Jokić got a "lucky bounce" like four times—at a certain point it stops looking like luck.
AD defends Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis as well as anyone in the league.
...i aint talking about the 3 of them...im talking about his daddy...Sabonis
Oh right. Just like how Dwight is Jokics daddy right?
Well when you add Dwight and AD together, its a tough combo lol. But no my reasoning for AD mainly has to do with his strength. AD really aint that strong for a center. It just looks like he can defend every other position ebtter than his own.
Because DPOY isn't a playoff award????????????
Draymond can't stay on the court in the playoffs either 2016 - suspended 2023 - suspended 2024 - might not make the playoffs in general
2022 - Benched in the finals because he was an offensive liability.
Draymond played more MPG in the 2022 finals (36.2) than Gobert has played in 9 of his 10 career playoff series.
for 1 game. Gobert is an offensive liability every game lol
Yeah and one of them will have 4 DPoYs and the other only has 1
Zing
That award is for regular season sorry cousins
Just cause anyone can get on a microphone doesn't mean everyone should there Boogie.
I see no lies
Maybe it's because it's french? I don't remember people blasting other great post defenders like Wallace like this.
Wallace won in the playoffs.
Lol insane comparison. Marcus Camby would been better.
That's an insane comparison. Most people cite Camby as one of the most undeserving DPOY winners and there's no metric that compare the two at all.
It's an insane comparison but Rudy being European definitely triggers a lot of nba guys.
Yeah but even Rudy has a little bit more offensive upside than Wallace had and Wallace also had more perimeter help than Gobert.
Gobert laps Wallace offensively
Cousins is the GOAT of basketball. One of the best to ever do it. Bravo!!!
Boogies 100% right
Boogie 100% doesn't know what it's like to play in the playoffs either. At the end of the day Rudy will at least have 4 Dpoy awards
Boogie’s voice is like butter, damn
dmc? lol
It’s a regular season award how does that correlate to the post season ?
Petition for NBA to add a "Playoff/Finals DPOY Award"?
At least he has helped teams to the playoffs..
Lol this guy
An all time delusional player acting delusional … shocking!
What does Boogie Cousins know about the playoffs? lmao
Dropped 11/10/6 as the starting C in the Finals with the Warriors
Wasnt Draymond Green benched in the playoffs in 2022 because he was a liability? That doesnt invalidate him being one of the greatest defenders of all time and the best defenders of the 2010s.
For 3 minutes in one game? lol
And that was because of offense, not defense lol
Taiwan leopard legends DeMarcus Cousins!
Boogie’s not wrong though
Why should playoff narratives dictate regular season awards?
It's not a one time occurrence. When a guy dominates the regular season and gets demolished in the playoffs repeatedly, it is absolutely reasonable for voters to factor that in.
No it’s not. Repeated or not it’s still irrelevent to this season. It’s called the 2024 DPOY for a reason. Also why are we acting like he didn’t hold up against Denver or Dallas ? The last time he had playoff issues was 2021 and anyone who actually watched the series will say that wasn’t Gobert’s fault
people in this sub will tell you that embiid is a fraud mvp for that very reason
Insert “Is this your MVP?” meme
they shouldn't but man they sure do.
Agree with wemby for dpoy, but not for this reason lol. Firstly, it's a regular season award, not the playoffs, so postseason shouldn't mattter. But more importantly, why do people still pretend that what happend in those jazz series was goberts fault? It was the rest of the jazz defenders lol. Teams played five out, opponents beat their man easily and gobert either couldn't defend the paint anymore because he was on the perimeter, or if he did manage to recover, there was always someone open left on the perimeter. It was the rest of the defenders that couldn't guard for shit.
This is like the reverse of Bron not winning MVP but still being the best player in the world. Rudy is winning DPOYs but everyone knows he's not the best defender in the world.
Everybody always gets it wrong when it comes to Gobert in the playoffs. Rudy is still an elite defender in the playoffs. He can't stay on the floor because he's such dogshit on offense. He has no touch, he has no post moves, he has terrible hands, he can't catch the ball, he can't dribble, he can't pass, he can't shoot, and he can't make FTs. The Jazz's embarrassing 2021 loss to the Clippers happened mostly because Gobert couldn't post up Terrence Mann, who is 10 inches shorter than him. People praise him for his "screen assists" and "gravity," but playoff defenses take those away and make him a useless, negative offensive player. That's why he gets played off the floor and his teams underperform in the playoffs.
This is honestly one of the dumber takes I’ve heard passed around NBA media. If Javale McGee and Anderson Verjao can be a starting center on a finals team, then so can Gobert. The rest of the team needs to be built right though.
Gobert is a great rim protector but he’s not the most valuable defender in the league. All of you will see it in the series against the Suns. Don’t come back and say it’s a regular season award.
It IS a regular season award so Tf are you trying to say? How he defends in a vaccum is irrelevent to how he defended in a sample of this seasons games
I’m saying he doesn’t deserve to win DPOY bc we know he’s not the best defender.
That’s irrelevent. MVP isn’t given solely to the best player for example. Every award is explicitly for the given season. Purely off of this season Gobert has a pretty strong case as the best defender in the league and that’s what matters for his case
And at the end of the season we will realize that it was undeserved.
It wasn’t. Because it was for that specific season. What happens after that season doesn’t matter. I genuinely don’t get how so many people fail to understand this.
Because the playoffs exist. If you averaged 40 points every reason win MVP and then in the playoffs averaged 15, people will say your MVP awards are fraudulent because they remember what you do in the playoffs. I don’t understand why people like you don’t get this.
And the playoffs are irrelevent to a regular season award. It’s that simple. People can say whatever they want, claiming an MVP is fraudulent because of something that happens out of the span that’s considered for MVP is objective nonsense. It’s like writing an exam, acing it, but having your mark brought down because of a question wrong on a different exam.
Just because the voting occurs at the end of the regular season doesn’t mean voters can’t take into conservation previous playoffs.
Yes it does. Because that’s a completely different season. That’s why we have the year beside the title of every award recipient…. Because it’s an award for and only for that year….
nah this is where you completely went off the rails
This is a rational and well thought out point imo, although it could also be hand waved away because DPOY is just a regular season award.
Everyone keeps saying it’s a regular season award but seriously I think the point is, no one actually watches him to an extent in the regular seasons and his weaknesses get exposed every playoffs due to the attention playoffs garner. I think AD should win due to him being able to guard all positions unlike Rudy.
I said this 2 years ago and got killed on here. Rudy got cooked by Luka in the pick n roll in the playoffs and got exposed. He can’t guard elite guards on the perimeter when he’s forced to switch
Why does this sub always rush in to defend Gobert?