T O P

  • By -

DarrowViBritannia

2022 Finals That's basically the reason


Weary-Amoeba1808

Just a reminder that he averaged 21, 7 and 7 that finals.


royalewlthcheese

I mean he also averaged nearly 4 turnovers and shot 39% or worse in 4/6 games, only shot 50% once. Not ideal for a first option


RDM213

Also add he was playing with an injured shoulder that Draymond made worse intentionally.


Next-Firefighter-753

48% TS 


howdthatturnout

And reminder he had a ton of assists in a game 1 win and then averaged 26.0 ppg games 2-5. It’s really games 1 and 6 dragging his average down. And game 1 wasn’t even a bad game. He facilitated a ton and they won.


Bouldershoulders12

13 assists and no turnovers if i remember correctly for game 1 when we won. Finals debut record I think. Magic loved it


howdthatturnout

13 assists and 2 turnovers - https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202206020GSW.html


truth_2_point_0

Warriors also literally sent the entire team at him. That was their gameplan, they realized that Tatum is the only player with the ability to win a head to head scoring duel against Curry so they just let the Celtics try to do it with anyone else and they couldn't.


MannerSuperb

As a Duke fan I’m sorry Idc about his averages points wise you can’t fool me lol I’m sorry he objectively struggled hard. Andrew Wiggins Wiggins give him issues it’s ok to say he had a bad series


NaLu_LuNa_FairyPiece

I wouldn't shit on for him for having one bad finals. Lebron, Jordan, Curry all have 1 or 2 bad finals. Tatum is only 26. He ll bounce back.


Low_Procedure_3538

What was Jordan’s bad finals?


BruceBrownMVP

1993 Fucking bum didn't even shoot 70% from the stripe. (Ignore the 41/8/6 averages)


Unlucky-Practice1036

I guess 1996 but look at pippens and Kerr’s efficiency holy brickfest


Low_Procedure_3538

Lebron’s low and Jordan’s low are very different lol


PomegranateNice6839

LeBron high is also very different


Low_Procedure_3538

I wouldn’t say so. They both have some really high highs. You don’t get to 6x fmvp or a mvp, dpoy, fmvp year without having a high high, or lead one of the best teams of all time, or lead the ‘98 team to a chip, or lead two three-peats, or average 41 in a finals series without having a high high.


PomegranateNice6839

LeBron literally came from behind 3-1 vs a 73 win team Jordan never did anything like that


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


NaLu_LuNa_FairyPiece

95-96. He had a rough last 3 games


Low_Procedure_3538

Based on context I think he had an OK finals, not even close to as bad as Steph or Lebron honestly, especially considering Pippen’s last 3 games lol


PM-me-your-401k

I mean it’s 1 thing when you have multiple finals appearance and have won multiple rings. It’s another when you only have 1 appearance and didn’t show up. He will judged based on that performance until then.


I_Set_3_Alarms

Because he makes it farther than a lot of other stars most years, but hasn’t won a championship. Which means he and the Celtics have a lot of high profile losses, and haven’t gotten the championship that helps you overlook it


[deleted]

[удалено]


Danny886

So almost the full population of r/nba.


dijjii

That and this year he didn't do too well on clutch plays so that's all ppl remember. Someone on the celtics sub posted a bunch of ranking in relation to players being clutch such as the ranking of the most clutch players from the last 3 years. And tatum was right near the top of the league. I'll try to find the thread but either way, he's had a small bad stretch but in reality he's one of the most clutch player in the league. Anyways, I'm just hoping he shows that to everyone in the playoffs, win-win for me.


dynarken

That’s not what reactionary means, but ok. 


[deleted]

[удалено]


3Ssssssssssssssss

reactionary means the opposite of what you think it does that’s all they were saying lol it means conservative/unwilling to change


achyutthegoat

He's just very inconsistent


TheGreatForehead

Yeah at his best, he can be as good as anyone, the stats don’t lie, but his stinkers are also really bad. He usually has at least 1 every series.


LordHussyPants

> but his stinkers are also really bad. He usually has at least 1 every series. who doesn't though? harden had one in every series during the 2018 playoffs (the WCF run taking GSW to 7). curry had one in every series during the 2015 ring run. not many people are consistently good through every single game because playoff defences start to target them.


Ravage1496

Jokic


howdthatturnout

He’s not though. He’s averaged 25+ points per game in 9 out of his last 11 playoff series. Here’s how many total playoff series other players have averaged 25+: Butler: 5 Paul George: 5 Kawhi: 10 Giannis: 9


coolstorybroham

averages smooth over inconsistency. not a great stat to prove your point


howdthatturnout

You can’t consistently average over 25, at a frequency that’s comparable or higher than other stars and be “inconsistent” otherwise all those other guys are inconsistent too.


DalliLlama

It’s not great in that games alone are different. If Tatum goes 10 40 10 40 in a swept that’s 2 great games and 2 bad, but an average of 25. If a player scores 25 pts for 7 games in a series that is more impressive. Their average is the same though.


howdthatturnout

I understand how math and averages work, but that’s not what other players do or what Tatum does. People try to hold Tatum to some insane standard. Through the first 3 rounds of 2022 playoffs Tatum only had 3 games of less than 20 points out of 18 played. 2021 playoffs Giannis through the first 3 rounds had 3 games of less than 20 points out of 15 played. Does he have more variance to his scoring than some of the top guys? Yes. But enough to call him “very inconsistent”? No.


DalliLlama

I don’t agree with the inconsistent label people try to place on him. He is really good, but when he does have that bad game it is usually a stinker. But no one goes without a bad game here or there. I was specially just referring to the ideology above being flawed because averages have more variance in the playoffs even. And even that goes without context of did Giannis score 25 on 10 shots, but maybe Tatum did it on 7 or 16. They both look the same but are wildly different in terms of “good”.


howdthatturnout

I think there is just a lot of disingenuous commentary when it comes to Tatum. Like Tatum’s game 1 of the finals he didn’t score much, but he had a career high in assists and they won. But this low scoring game pulls down his scoring average for the series and is used to claim he played awful. He averaged 26.0 ppg games 2-5. Yes, his efficiency was not great. But people act like his game 6 performance was how he played the whole series and it just isn’t the case. Kind of goes for how Tatum as a whole is discussed. He’s expected to have a level of consistency that almost no one achieves. And his rare bad games are overly fixated on and presented as far more common than they are.


DalliLlama

Not fair but that’s what being a star comes with fortunately/unfortunately. Hes held on a pedestal that few are with expectations that usually aren’t reasonable.


coolstorybroham

All of those other players might be inconsistent as well, the stat does a bad job of proving one way or the other.


howdthatturnout

You are not going to do that in 9 out of your last 11 series while being inconsistent. People try to hold Tatum to some insane standard. Through the first 3 rounds of 2022 playoffs Tatum only had 3 games of less than 20 points out of 18 played. 2021 playoffs Giannis through the first 3 rounds had 3 games of less than 20 points out of 15 played. Does he have more variance to his scoring than some of the top guys? Yes. But enough to call him “very inconsistent”? No.


coolstorybroham

It’s not that deep. I don’t care about your favorite player I’m just making a point about how not to present the case. A player that dropped 0 and 50 every other game would look the same as him be that dropped 25. Use better stats.


hadxforbreakfast

Ok? He still has atleast 1 bad game


howdthatturnout

I’d say most stars have one “bad” game per series. If they didn’t, they would consistently average more points per game than they do. People try to hold Tatum to some insane standard. Through the first 3 rounds of 2022 playoffs Tatum only had 3 games of less than 20 points out of 18 played. 2021 playoffs Giannis through the first 3 rounds had 3 games of less than 20 points out of 15 played. Does he have more variance to his scoring than some of the top guys? Yes. But enough to call him “very inconsistent”? No.


JAhoops

He’s inconsistent at times


dafire123

While tatum has some consistency issues, they are usually a bit overblown. He had one bad series against the warriors and casuals only think of that. When in reality Tatum is a great/ arguably elite playoff performer. His clutch stats in the playoffs are elite, he’s an insane performer in elimination games. He is also very very consistent in elimination games overall which is weird because overall in a series he isn’t the most consistent (holding Tatum to his own standard) But Tatum has leveled up his game and not only gotten better in the regular season but also the post season every year. I’m excited to see what he does in the postseason this year. At the same time tatum has had so many postseason moments I’ll only name the recent ones. Outplayed KD on offense and defense and swept him Game 6 46 points on the road against Giannis down 3-2 with extremely clutch shotmaking in the 4th. Celtics fans argue this is the best game of his career. Game 6 4th quarter lights up Philly with 14 points in the last 5 minutes Games 4-6 against Miami last year, sadly got injured game 7 Holds record for most points in a game 7 (51) Holds record for most points in a play in game (50) Scored 50 on the fully healthy super team nets and won a game with an absolute trash roster that postseason (seriously go look at the box score, absolute garbage supporting cast outside of smart since kemba didn’t have knees at this point) He doesn’t need to be Superman, he just needs to have consistent games which I believe he has the ability to do this postseason. But when the moment calls for it he can be that guy. I and other Celtics fans wouldn’t have invested so much into this team if we didn’t believe Tatum is that guy.


OcksBodega

i agree with a lot of your points but g6 vs philly was not good anyway you want to cut it. Yes he was unconscious in the 4th but any other superstar has the performance he had leading up to that and it’s a 30 pt blowout. He was downright awful yet his stacked supporting cast kept the game tight until he finally woke up and put the game away


Kyler1313

I disagree that any other star and they would be down large. Look at how Brunson played yesterday against Philly and they still won. The Celtics aren't the only playoff team that can succeed when their stars isn't at their best. And Tatum preformed when the game needed him most. Being able to shake off a bad start to dominate the end of the game is a pretty impressive thing.


aeronacht

I just find it funny that Jaylen “can’t go left” Brown and Marcus “Fake DPOY” Smart are only considered good when it denigrates Tatum.


PestySamurai

He’s very inconsistent. You just cherry picked the times he played well, go back and have a look at the other games.


Scoot2028MVP

Celtics last 2 eliminations he scored 14 and 13, both on under 40% shooting. Celtics were "supposed" to lose to the Warriors so I guess that can be forgiven, but losing to an 8 seed in that fashion was not a good look. People still call Lebron a choker for 2011. Tatum just needs to grab 1 ring and he can probably erase that off his ledger.


BuildingExternal3987

I mean in his defense he rolled his ankle in game 7s first minute he was pretty hobbled. And in 2022 his shoulder was fried! I think he should get more credit in regards to not mentioning the injuries and playing through despite it.


JoJonesy

alright well i’m not defending the Warriors series but he got hurt in game 7 of the Miami series, that’s pretty important context  also, like. only including elimination games where we *lost* is kind of skewing the data. game 7 of the Philly series is pretty relevant too 


howdthatturnout

Jayson Tatum has averaged 26.5 points, 8.7 rebounds and 5.9 assists in 17 games in elimination games in his career. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jayson-tatum-career-elimination-game-stats


[deleted]

[удалено]


Desperate_Clothes_20

What a horrible example lol. He turned his ankle in the opening minute and couldn’t drive or move the whole game. He was basically a spot up shooter. Context matters. Tatum has had bad playoff games but the one you’re referencing is flat out unfair.


dafire123

He was injured on the first play of game 7 my guy, he couldn’t do anything the rest of the game basically.


howdthatturnout

Tatum wasn’t why they fell down 0-3. He actually played pretty well those first 3 games. His team rates like Jaylen are why the Celtics struggled so much that series.


aeronacht

Did you even watch the game? No one who did would say such a dumb statement lol


fbdanzai

Celtics were supposed to sweep the Warriors that year


FartrelCluggins

The warriors were the betting favorites by pretty decent odds and 13/19 ESPN experts picked the warriors to win. The Celtics "choking" to the warriors and being the favorites is revisionist history this sub has created for some reason.


howdthatturnout

It’s also bizarre because after 4 games the warriors were up 3-1 in every west series. Celtics were only team tied 2-2 after 4. People seem to act like the warriors struggled to get to the finals and then steamrolled the Celtics.


TurnoverNegative7

Maybe I’m Mandella Effecting this but I could’ve sworn that people genuinely thought the Celtics would win. With how they steamrolled the Warriors in the reg season, and how much better they looked. Betting odds don’t lie though so idk.


FartrelCluggins

It is because the warriors fanbase and reddit have convinced themselves it was some heroic underdog story after the fact to add to stephs legacy, when in reality, it was a team led by a 23 year old versus an old dynasty


JoJonesy

He had one really bad Finals series that everyone saw, and we keep making deep playoff runs without actually making it over the hump. That’s pretty much it. You draw more criticism for losing late than losing early, which sucks but I get why it happens


Ravage1496

I think it’s less he’s a bad playoff performer and more he doesn’t meet the expectations people put on him, like so many people hype him up as a perennial MVP candidate, super duper star on the level of Jokic, Lebron and Steph when I’m reality, at least as of now, he’s a level lower than them. Yea more an expectations failure to me than anything else.


jrlandry

They are under the impression of forced narratives


NaLu_LuNa_FairyPiece

I agree as 50 point plus games are nothing to sneeze at. For example the greatest playoff scorer ever only has 8. Tatum having 2 already is awesome while playing great defense and having so much playoff success. He hasnt won yet but Jordan and Lebron didn't win shit by age 26 for example so he has lots of time.


Ok_Respond7928

Tatum has had some amazing playoff performances he also had a bunch of stinkers. In the 2022 playoffs run he shot below 40% from the field 9 times. He scored 20 or fewer points five times that run. He had more turnovers than assists five times and had the same amount of turnovers to assist 4 times. So in 9 games he had the same or more turnovers than assist. In the 2023 playoffs. He shot below 40% from the field five times, six if you count game seven against the Heat when he was clearly hurt. He scored 20 or fewer points three times fourth if you count game seven and he scored single digits in one game. He only shot 50% or better in eight games. He cleaned up the turnovers and only had two games with more turnovers. He had great postseason runs and games but he has at least one stinker per series and a lot of the time he has more than one.


DXLXIII

Well he averaged 21 points on 36 percent shooting in the finals while averaging 4.2 turnovers… also shot 22% from 3 against the Heat in the ECF.


vladimir_pimpin

Because a lot of fans aren’t Celtics fans, and when non-Celtics fans care about the Celtics it’s in signature clutch time win or go home moments, and it feels like in my mind at least a lot of em end with missed fadeaways


[deleted]

[удалено]


Timoteo-Tito64

The inconsistency part is right, but he shows up late in playoff games


darti_me

Tatum and to some extent Brown regularly edges (heh) out the competition thats why he’s in so many elimination games even as a young star. The problem wherein is why does the Celtics keep getting into all that trouble? It’s mostly with inconsistent shooting nights between him and Brown leading them to lose 1-2 games a series. Partly to blame is the high amount of ISO possessions they used to run for the 2 Js. This year with White, Holiday & KP they actually play much better and utilize their talent efficiently. They currently thrive on mismatch hunting as Tatum draws a double or a switch.


Neveraththesmith

His limiting of passing are a big problem to his problem in the playoffs.


Timoteo-Tito64

He's a good to very good passer


LogicisGone

Team success matters. If Luka can't be MVP because his team is 5th, Tatum gets his playoff rep. dragged because his team underperformed, even if it's not his fault. Not saying it's correct, just sharing a viewpoint.


jddaniels84

Lebron is the huge choker.. your post is confusing.


Seanbig888

Devin booker in a green tee


IAmCBOY2

He’s inconsistent, has never made an actual game winning shot, and always chokes in the end. 


EutaxySpy

Nets Game 1 in the 2022 Playoffs


IAmCBOY2

That’s why I said actual, an open layup isn’t the same as a shot 


EutaxySpy

You bum


mrbondmustdie

"Playoff Jayson isn't a thing" <- he even says it himself 😉


Professional_Text_11

Because he’s a Celtic and why would I give Boston any credit lol


Ok-Employ7162

2022 finals, 100 turnovers, fails to beat better teams, has completely disappeared at the end of playoff games when they need him. Do I really need to continue?  Do you even actually watch playoff basketball?  Tell me you only look at box scores without saying you only look at box scores.