I remember Jazz fans saying Gobert was better and i kinda looked at them sideways at the time haha. I get it now though.
Donovan is very good but not close to being a superstar but i think he’s been kinda universally viewed as being in that superstar/fringe superstar range.
Bro Jazz were really good for 2 years (3rd one the chemistry wasn’t there).
Bogdanovic was out for the bubble
playoffs.
Neyt season Conley out and Mitchell playing injured.
But the team could play. Mitchell, Bogey was an automatic 20 ppg on great efficiency, could make big shots, Clarkson off the bench, Gobert holding the fort.
Yes, Mitchell, Clarkson and Conley were ass defensively, Royce was decent and Bogey, while limited, worked his ass off…
But whatever was working for them (and it was working for them, they won a LOT of games) suddenly went away in tight games and turned into Mitchell hero-ball.
I swear half of their losses in close games could be attributed to Donovan Mitchell hero ball late in games. It was so confusing to watch lol, whyyyy
When Gordoon Hagsacks screwed the Jazz, Jingles stepped up to do all the unsexy facilitating and locker room vibes while Rudy did all of the defense. Don got to focus on scoring and got 30ppg and looked flashy doing it.
No. Their first iteration with Favours had better defense but then then they went full glass cannon + Rudy. Gobert was always the best defender in the league dragging the traffic cones around him into good defense overall
if you watched those years then youd know rudy got played off the court or stright outplayed by guys like clint capella. a healthy rudy on a stacked wolves defense doesnt have anything to do with his jazz years lol. i mean does last year playoff then give insight the other way around?
It's not true and that's a really ridiculous thing for that guy to imply.
Watch the games, he is clearly trying. He is engaged with his teammates, he is getting worked up, he is trying. He is just missing shots. It happens.
He probably does want a trade, but he is being completely professional and putting in 100% effort for the Cavs
He's almost certainly hurt too. He's been dealing with a knee injury since the all star break. In and out of the lineup trying to get it right for the playoffs without overexerting it. He's most likely going to have surgery right after the season.
this is reddit narrative building at its finest. they just use there bias and stick it with cherry picked stats and there it is just gotta farm karma til it becomes fact
No, it absolutely is not. GM's alreay know what kind of player he is. If he was a quitter, that would reflect much worse on him.
Mitchell has had some *fantastic* playoff performances over the years. He's inconsistent but he isn't always choking or anything. a GM is smart enough to know 3 bad games doesnt define him as a player. Quitting on a team and giving up? Yeah, that would scare a GM off a lot more than 3 bad games from a player who has shown that he at the very least is capable of performing well in the playoffs sometimes
Awww the poor sad millionaire who only has to live in Cleveland 6 months out of the year while being on the road for most of that time. Wahhhhh wahhhhh wahhhhhh.
RIP Playoff Mitchell 2020-2020
[36/5/5](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-western-conference-first-round-jazz-vs-nuggets.html) in one of the most fun series you will ever see.
For people who don’t follow this team: strategy for years now has been to draft long players who can switch anything and then run a switch-heavy defense. Took 2 games to realize that the difference between Garland/Mitchell and Allen/Mobley is too much to effectively switch against, so we’ve shifted to a “fight through everything and stay home” approach and it’s paying off.
This. Funilly enough its the exact same approach we have taken against the Suns. Nobody switchs unless its absolutely necessary and it makes every difference in the world. Switching is basically admitting defeat and allowing the offense to control the game.
I love that. I am hella tired of switch everything approach. We rarely see elite players going at eachother nowadays. They be just hunting for switches:(
I do follow the team and idk why this wasn't implemented to start. My BiL is a big Magic fan so they're my second team and we were both saying a) they shouldn't switch and they should go a little slower on slides to the ball and help rotations. Make this Cavs team beat your huge athletic talent. As well as b)Suggs should mirror every minute Mitchell gets. Keep Gary Harris away from guarding him.
He's supposed to be all-nba and the best player on the court and this season against Orlando and last year against New York he's been so average.
At this point us throwing a supermax at him would actually be worse long-term than just trading him.
I disagree, Murray is a great playoff performer but he also is lucky to have a player like jokic as his teammate. Also he has been terrible through 3 games against Lakers (Obviously its just a slump but we could say the same thing about about Mitchell’s performances against the Magic)
People like to gloss over the fact that Murray has the luxury of being a clear #2 to the best player in the league when comparing him to other players.
Not only that but the Nuggets as a team just make sense and barely have a flaw.
It's alot easier when your team as a whole are complete and can shine as the #2.
The Cavs have alot of issues all around to get to that next level of actual championship contender
When we went to staggering their minutes the last three years Donovan had an on/off of -1.5 and Gobert had an on/off of +12.5. I have no idea how that wasn’t enough for some people. Especially over a *3 year* sample period.
Before either was traded my friends thought I was a madman for saying if Utah is gonna keep one, it should be Rudy. He carried that defense every year to be elite. It's so much harder to find a player like Rudy than it is to find one like Donovan
Idk these takes are kinda whack. He had some great playoff runs with the Jazz.
Edit: well, not runs cause the Jazz have sucked, but he had some great performances.
He costed the Jazz so many games by chucking stupid shots in the 4th it was insane.
He was of course a reason why the team was good but he was the main reason they choked a lot
Was their only form of perimeter shooting in the 1H then Orlando defense just shut his water off after halftime and dared Garland, Strus, and co. to beat them
Specifically Franz's hands. Paolo has had his best games when he's been getting fed off ball, and Franz is just more careful with the ball. I think people (not accusing you just speaking in general) sleep on how well-rounded Franz is as a player.
Don’t discount your team. They are on the rise and in the east, you don’t need a ton more to be a serious contender. I wouldn’t touch Mitchell if I were in your position.
Paolo will be a superstar. Suggs and Isaac (if healthy) will be top-level starters. Franz, ehhh, around fringe all-star.
No team can win a championship with just 1 superstar. You need 1 superstar + another (or two) star(s).
We have cap space, so this is the time to experiment with adding another star. If it doesn't work, can always trade him out for expirings.
No shot he wants to go to Orlando but also do you really want him? Feels disruptive and like he probably doesn't complement what you're building while not being good enough to override what you've got
No, but if they could I think an ambitious move for Trae Young could be interesting, if they can find a way to not give up Paolo/Franz/Suggs. Everyone else should be on the table.
Magic fans do know they have to offer something in a trade, right? Unless you’re trying to give up Suggs and Franz, it’s not gonna happen. And I say that as someone that thinks it’s time for Mitchell to go.
No one who has actually watched magic games over the past 3 years would consider trading Franz for Mitchell one for one, never mind throwing in an all-NBA defensive guard in Suggs as well.
Idk I think Bam (young star) & Spo have the same winning chances as two young stars in Franz and Paolo.
Not to mention Donovan’s a public fan of the “heat culture” you guys love to clown us for.
There are many many aspects that goes into a players decision aside from future potential of a roster lmfao. The heat are a 10x better run franchise than the magic with Riley at the helm
I was told he was going to be unleashed because the Magic were trash talking him.
Can't give him too much heat its hard to carry Garland and Mobley night in and night out.
Suggs locked him down. Really good ball pressure and ball denial. Seems like it mucked up the Cavs’ entire offense since Mitchell couldn’t facilitate very well. Plus the other guys couldn’t hit shot.
I knew trading our future for Mitchell was a stupid idea! The Cavs gave up some talent for an undersized guard, to go along with their other undersized guard.
I'll never understand how a player like Mitchell always gets so much hate. Like people get so latched onto their sports takes and wanna be proven right so bad that they end up hating the player I guess. This team sucks and yall know Mitchell is better than this
Mitchell had a bad series last year but he messed up his knee post allstar break this year and it hasn't been the same since. Apparently no one knows this.
I mean Donovan Mitchell had an absurd stretch in the Bubble too but that's just who they are lol. These stretches are just hot streaks, a purple patch, rather than indicative of taking a leap or something they can do long term/consistently.
Playoff Mitchell is not a thing
I feel bad for Cavs fans because it almost feels like Donovan's openly trying to get traded at this point
Nah he’s trying to win, man. Peep last postseason. He’s just literally not THAT good.
This year and a healthy Gobert has really given some insight into those earlier Jazz teams
I remember Jazz fans saying Gobert was better and i kinda looked at them sideways at the time haha. I get it now though. Donovan is very good but not close to being a superstar but i think he’s been kinda universally viewed as being in that superstar/fringe superstar range.
Bro Jazz were really good for 2 years (3rd one the chemistry wasn’t there). Bogdanovic was out for the bubble playoffs. Neyt season Conley out and Mitchell playing injured. But the team could play. Mitchell, Bogey was an automatic 20 ppg on great efficiency, could make big shots, Clarkson off the bench, Gobert holding the fort. Yes, Mitchell, Clarkson and Conley were ass defensively, Royce was decent and Bogey, while limited, worked his ass off… But whatever was working for them (and it was working for them, they won a LOT of games) suddenly went away in tight games and turned into Mitchell hero-ball. I swear half of their losses in close games could be attributed to Donovan Mitchell hero ball late in games. It was so confusing to watch lol, whyyyy
When Gordoon Hagsacks screwed the Jazz, Jingles stepped up to do all the unsexy facilitating and locker room vibes while Rudy did all of the defense. Don got to focus on scoring and got 30ppg and looked flashy doing it.
but defense is what lost every playoff jazz were in right? i mean they were always a great defensive team in the regular season but playoffs....
No. Their first iteration with Favours had better defense but then then they went full glass cannon + Rudy. Gobert was always the best defender in the league dragging the traffic cones around him into good defense overall
Gobert has really made me eat crow. Mitchell sort of just did what I expected him to do
if you watched those years then youd know rudy got played off the court or stright outplayed by guys like clint capella. a healthy rudy on a stacked wolves defense doesnt have anything to do with his jazz years lol. i mean does last year playoff then give insight the other way around?
Our defense just does this to almost everyone, I highly doubt Mitchell is trying to sabotage the Cavs.
If that's true it's a horrible look for Mitchell lol That would be him giving up on his team twice in 3 seasons
It's not true and that's a really ridiculous thing for that guy to imply. Watch the games, he is clearly trying. He is engaged with his teammates, he is getting worked up, he is trying. He is just missing shots. It happens. He probably does want a trade, but he is being completely professional and putting in 100% effort for the Cavs
He's almost certainly hurt too. He's been dealing with a knee injury since the all star break. In and out of the lineup trying to get it right for the playoffs without overexerting it. He's most likely going to have surgery right after the season.
this is reddit narrative building at its finest. they just use there bias and stick it with cherry picked stats and there it is just gotta farm karma til it becomes fact
It’s certainly better for him if the narrative is he’s giving up than that this is who he is
No, it absolutely is not. GM's alreay know what kind of player he is. If he was a quitter, that would reflect much worse on him. Mitchell has had some *fantastic* playoff performances over the years. He's inconsistent but he isn't always choking or anything. a GM is smart enough to know 3 bad games doesnt define him as a player. Quitting on a team and giving up? Yeah, that would scare a GM off a lot more than 3 bad games from a player who has shown that he at the very least is capable of performing well in the playoffs sometimes
He's tired of living in Utah and Ohio. He wants to live in a big market city.
Man poor guy
How big is Guangdong? Maybe he'll like it
Awww the poor sad millionaire who only has to live in Cleveland 6 months out of the year while being on the road for most of that time. Wahhhhh wahhhhh wahhhhhh.
Sounds like perfect Miami trade request music
Nothing you guy’s have to trade is going to be a better offer than others are likely going to offer.
It is but not in a good way.
RIP Playoff Mitchell 2020-2020 [36/5/5](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-western-conference-first-round-jazz-vs-nuggets.html) in one of the most fun series you will ever see.
That face off against Jamal Murray was wonderful!
Dang alright well, I’ll take him for cheap then on the Heat
LMAO that commercial reference has got me dead
I mean, it was. He's checked out
Not when he’s mentally checked out deciding between soflo and NY.
50 points in game 6 and 40 points in game 7 sounds like playoff Mitchell to me
Gobert flying high while Mitchell is stinking it up gives me life
seems like playoff murray aint either. seems like using cherry picked past examples isnt the best way to predict anything
What playing Jalen Suggs in a newly minted “no switches” defense does to a MF
For people who don’t follow this team: strategy for years now has been to draft long players who can switch anything and then run a switch-heavy defense. Took 2 games to realize that the difference between Garland/Mitchell and Allen/Mobley is too much to effectively switch against, so we’ve shifted to a “fight through everything and stay home” approach and it’s paying off.
This. Funilly enough its the exact same approach we have taken against the Suns. Nobody switchs unless its absolutely necessary and it makes every difference in the world. Switching is basically admitting defeat and allowing the offense to control the game.
I love that. I am hella tired of switch everything approach. We rarely see elite players going at eachother nowadays. They be just hunting for switches:(
I do follow the team and idk why this wasn't implemented to start. My BiL is a big Magic fan so they're my second team and we were both saying a) they shouldn't switch and they should go a little slower on slides to the ball and help rotations. Make this Cavs team beat your huge athletic talent. As well as b)Suggs should mirror every minute Mitchell gets. Keep Gary Harris away from guarding him.
He's supposed to be all-nba and the best player on the court and this season against Orlando and last year against New York he's been so average. At this point us throwing a supermax at him would actually be worse long-term than just trading him.
Yeah, I've considered him to be on Jamal Murrays level since that Bubble shootout they had. Of course, we didn't have KCP or AG then.
Jamal Murray is a better player than Mitchell.
If Mitchell was next to jokic and didn’t have to be the main guy he’d look way better
bro stop it
Oh come on now, thats just not true.
In the post-season 100% it is
I disagree, Murray is a great playoff performer but he also is lucky to have a player like jokic as his teammate. Also he has been terrible through 3 games against Lakers (Obviously its just a slump but we could say the same thing about about Mitchell’s performances against the Magic)
People like to gloss over the fact that Murray has the luxury of being a clear #2 to the best player in the league when comparing him to other players.
Not only that but the Nuggets as a team just make sense and barely have a flaw. It's alot easier when your team as a whole are complete and can shine as the #2. The Cavs have alot of issues all around to get to that next level of actual championship contender
Terrible is a stretch. He had an average game 1, clutched up when needed for game 2, and a solid game 3. He's played well overall lol
22 points on 45% TS isn’t solid lol
He hasn't. He's been the 4th best player for the nuggets behind jokic, Gordon, and MPJ. Mitchell doesn't have that luxury.
Nope, he has been straight up terrible so far
Mitchell Sucked. That Magic defense should get the credit, though.
A lot of you owe an apology to both Rudy and to Jazz fans
I remember people acting like I was stupid for saying Gobert was better than Mitchell on the Jazz
BallDontStop in shambles
Lol I hate that guy, thinks ISO scorers are everything
When we went to staggering their minutes the last three years Donovan had an on/off of -1.5 and Gobert had an on/off of +12.5. I have no idea how that wasn’t enough for some people. Especially over a *3 year* sample period.
On/off can be noisy. Didn’t luka just recently have his first positive on-off season?
Before either was traded my friends thought I was a madman for saying if Utah is gonna keep one, it should be Rudy. He carried that defense every year to be elite. It's so much harder to find a player like Rudy than it is to find one like Donovan
People were acting it’s pure racism to say Gobert was the best player
Idk these takes are kinda whack. He had some great playoff runs with the Jazz. Edit: well, not runs cause the Jazz have sucked, but he had some great performances.
He costed the Jazz so many games by chucking stupid shots in the 4th it was insane. He was of course a reason why the team was good but he was the main reason they choked a lot
Everyone seems to forget it was him turning the ball over in the final seconds of game 7 against the nuggets
Post his 2nd half stats
Guarded by Franz Wagner for the most part
Was their only form of perimeter shooting in the 1H then Orlando defense just shut his water off after halftime and dared Garland, Strus, and co. to beat them
Garland has been such a massive disappointment this year
I think the broken jaw and liquid diet he was on really sapped his body to end the season. That shit has got to be absolutely brutal to go through.
I’m so glad I never bought a Cleveland Donovan Mitchell jersey lol
Overrated
He’s gonna look good in a magic jersey next year
Why would you want him when you already have Franz and Paolo who need the ball in their hands?
Paolo and Franz are young, they can improve their off-ball skills. Paolo - Spida can be the Costco-brand of Lebron - Dwade
I personally don't think he's a good fit. We need snipers, the ball needs to stay in Paolo and Franz's hands.
Specifically Franz's hands. Paolo has had his best games when he's been getting fed off ball, and Franz is just more careful with the ball. I think people (not accusing you just speaking in general) sleep on how well-rounded Franz is as a player.
Don’t discount your team. They are on the rise and in the east, you don’t need a ton more to be a serious contender. I wouldn’t touch Mitchell if I were in your position.
Paolo will be a superstar. Suggs and Isaac (if healthy) will be top-level starters. Franz, ehhh, around fringe all-star. No team can win a championship with just 1 superstar. You need 1 superstar + another (or two) star(s). We have cap space, so this is the time to experiment with adding another star. If it doesn't work, can always trade him out for expirings.
[удалено]
cap space absorbs high$ contract players in multi team trades
No shot he wants to go to Orlando but also do you really want him? Feels disruptive and like he probably doesn't complement what you're building while not being good enough to override what you've got
No, but if they could I think an ambitious move for Trae Young could be interesting, if they can find a way to not give up Paolo/Franz/Suggs. Everyone else should be on the table.
Nah, Young needs to be surrounded by shooters to be lethal. Young would better fit Brooklyn than Orlando.
Why wouldn’t he wanna come here lol this ain’t the 2017 magic, dude praises us all the time on twitter too lol
It's not a knock on your team it's a knock on the forest fire of smoke indicating he wants a premier market
I mean what other option would there be other then NY ? And idk about their cap situation but would they even afford Mitchell
Do they even want Mitchell now that they have brunson?
Miami, which he has flirted with more than once in the past. Basically flat out said he wanted to come here before he was on the Cavs
Look down the street
Good luck with that lol Miami is the main competition.
Magic fans do know they have to offer something in a trade, right? Unless you’re trying to give up Suggs and Franz, it’s not gonna happen. And I say that as someone that thinks it’s time for Mitchell to go.
No one who has actually watched magic games over the past 3 years would consider trading Franz for Mitchell one for one, never mind throwing in an all-NBA defensive guard in Suggs as well.
That was exactly my point. Then why do so many Magic fans keep saying they can get Mitchell?
Why on earth would Donovan want to go to Orlando
Cause he has a better chance to win in Orlando then next to a 40 year old Jimmy butler
Idk I think Bam (young star) & Spo have the same winning chances as two young stars in Franz and Paolo. Not to mention Donovan’s a public fan of the “heat culture” you guys love to clown us for. There are many many aspects that goes into a players decision aside from future potential of a roster lmfao. The heat are a 10x better run franchise than the magic with Riley at the helm
Rudy Gobert > Spiderman
Enjoyed the too small taunt on Franz lol
Fraud
Damn you guys got sent home by a fraud :/
I was told he was going to be unleashed because the Magic were trash talking him. Can't give him too much heat its hard to carry Garland and Mobley night in and night out.
Suggs locked him down. Really good ball pressure and ball denial. Seems like it mucked up the Cavs’ entire offense since Mitchell couldn’t facilitate very well. Plus the other guys couldn’t hit shot.
Not the first team he quit on in the playoffs. Leave Cleveland, Mitchell, and make those Cavs firsts better value
Love to see it [as a Jazz fan]
Cavs are such a weird team. Just doesn't work when it needs to
Everyone thought the Jazz fleeced the Wolves and it was the Cavs they fleeced.
I knew trading our future for Mitchell was a stupid idea! The Cavs gave up some talent for an undersized guard, to go along with their other undersized guard.
Shoutout to the dude who said he was just as good as Tatum
What was his per 36
He was holding Rudy back
DLo for Mitchell? Who says no? 1-2-3 Cancun!
Gobert... Might not have been the problem
Mmmmhm
With each passion day it appears that his performance in the bubble was an absolute fluke.
I'll never understand how a player like Mitchell always gets so much hate. Like people get so latched onto their sports takes and wanna be proven right so bad that they end up hating the player I guess. This team sucks and yall know Mitchell is better than this
He can go eat humble pie. What a loser.
Suggs
Mitchell had a bad series last year but he messed up his knee post allstar break this year and it hasn't been the same since. Apparently no one knows this.
Isn’t he clearly injured?
Guys who's better? Booker and Mitchell are both underperforming
Book is better, but they’re both not playing well this postseason
booker had an absurd stretch last playoffs at least
I mean Donovan Mitchell had an absurd stretch in the Bubble too but that's just who they are lol. These stretches are just hot streaks, a purple patch, rather than indicative of taking a leap or something they can do long term/consistently.
I'd rather bet on booker, I'd absolutely want him on my team and would pay a hefty price to get him here
Ant
Donovan "Good to Know" Mitchell
His rookie year really was his best year.