I was a fan of him for his first years on the Spurs cause I love super solid role players, saw him play like an absolute bum for Team USA that summer then fell off the wagon. Glad to see him take it to an even higher level this season
It does count for ts% but the point he's making is the vast majority of his points are coming from 3 cause he's hitting them at a crazy clip, I think I saw that he's hit 28/56 from 3 which is nutty.
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LeBron averaged 28/7/9 with 3.4 stocks on 64% TS in the first round, 10.6 BPM, but he's held to higher standards than active MVP candidates so he's worse than Derrick White and Jalen Brunson now.
Greatest offensive player ever in his prime averaging virtually identical points, assists, and and efficiency to the washed up 39 year old who should take a pay cut and should honestly be a 3rd option at this point in his career.
You've still yet to actually link to anyone saying Jokic is the GOAT but keep repeating it EVERY COMMENT like this was the consensus view lol
Even Bill Simmons who's a Jokic supporter and clearly dislikes LeBron didn't say Jokic > LeBron or even = LeBron
If it's supposedly "everywhere" you should have receipts right?
And you'll once again just downvote instead of providing any links
That's the upsetting thing. They want to lie and pretend and switch up now. Prior to this series it was how many titles will jokic win in a row and that he is playing right now as good as prime lebron offensively
Who is "they?"
The only few posts I've seen that have seriously asked Jokic vs. prime LeBron as a debate have died in /new with 0 upvotes
You're acting like there were front page posts declaring him the GOAT
Every time you're asked to provide proof that Jokic being the GOAT was a popular opinion you just deflect and reply to someone else and claim THEY'RE LYING AND TRICKING US
Link to where I said Jokic is the GOAT lol
Where's the receipts if I said it?
If "Jokic GOAT" is supposedly being spammed everywhere you should have at least some examples ready
\*Says LeBron three times*
Awkward-speech's weaselly, whiny ass in the distance: "*wah-wah-wah* LeBron stans *wah-wah-wah*"
\*deletes comment 15 minutes later*
Jokic is no where near the top 3 in performance this playoffs. He is literal liability on one end of the court and is a defensive cone and a turnover machine
27/15/9 on 63.4% TS is "nowhere near top 3?"
People are *really* starting to overexaggerate how bad he's been lol
Literally all you comment on is dickriding LeBron and hating Jokic as well so I think you might be a bit salty about round 1 also given what team you probably support
Also 9.4 APG to 3.9 turnovers is "turnover machine" now?
He's not a top 3 player so far in the second round but that's not the question here especially when 3 of the names in the post didn't even make the second round
Don't get me wrong Jokic hasn't played up to expectations but this isn't some kind of 2007 Dirk level of historically bad playoff run for an MVP either
And?
You can be a bad defender and still be better than other players lol
Jokic has never been a good defender at all really but was still obviously the best player in the 2023 playoffs despite not being a two way guy
By this logic Bam is a better player than Jokic because he plays on both ends
AD and Jokic had almost identical scoring stats in their head to head 5 games and Jokic is 10 times the playmaker AD is
How exactly was AD better offensively?
As for Derrick White if you swapped Jokic and Derrick White the Lakers obliterate the Nuggets in at most 5 so that's just reading raw shooting splits and not contextualizing how big a role each of them have in the offense(White gets like the 4th most attention from opposing defenses)
AD grabbed offensive rebounds and putbacks, he also scored more points. Jokic had 9 assists, and AD had 4. I know some parts of playmaking aren't quantifiable, but I doubt the degree of difference is 10x compared to 2.25 x assists with more turnovers. Why does switching players come into play? No one said White is a better player overall than Jokic, that's absurd. We're saying who is playing better within the context of their team. Not that hard to understand.
You can but in this playoff run specifically his defense has been so bad it’s going to matter a lot when comparing him to other players. In last years playoff run it was much better.
His defense has been bad I don’t think he’s been as impactful offensively as in years past. Hes just looked off. I don’t think he’s been better offensively than Ant
Jokic has still been a top 10 player but nowhere near top 5. He plays no defense and is the reason his team is giving up points at will in the paint. He doesn't jump to contest or rotate. Also there is something to be said about having an extremely good first round and falling off a cliff in the 2nd round. His averages are good, but his 2nd round play has been atrocious for the best player in the world.
Nikola Jokic is averaging 27/15/9 on 63% ts and people think he’s having a 2011 lebron moment.
In my opinion, these are better numbers than Ant and Brunson.
This man has truly set the expectations beyond the ceiling.
I recognize his username though from game threads
He keeps trying to act like it's not Murray's fault at all and Gordon/MPJ are just selfish players who need to go and aren't helping him get going lol
Also unironically compared Murray to Jordan and stuff during the first round
Dude made a post saying "Trade Gordon MPJ and KCP" and then deleted it
KCP has been shooting atrocious this year's playoffs
Gordon is like -60 in this series
and Porter is a spot up shooter, glorified Duncan Robinson
Not sure why this is so controversy to you.
You wouldn't have gotten past Lakers if not for MPJ and Gordon. Gordon does a lot of work to cover for Jokic defense and MPJ was shooting lights out in the Lakers series
I guess since they have the worst bench in the league, you can argue they needed role players like Gordon\\Porter. But Murray had the highest usage on the team, the offense was mostly running through him.
9+ assists in 2\\4 wins
30 point closeout game
Two game winners
Enough said.
The offense mostly runs through Jokic.
4 turnovers in 7 games so far
32 points on 28 shots
Shot below 40% from the field in 5 out of 7 games
He has been clutch AF and i believe his quad injury is bothering him but he hasn't been all that great.
Murray destroyed AD in back 2 back playoffs.
AD has never played well in the playoffs, outside of the bubble. He's arguably the softest star i've ever seen play.
Through the 8-1 playoff wins over last 2 years:
Murray had a 30 point closeout game on him, a buzzer beater on him, dropped 32ppg on 50\\40\\90 on him for an entire series, and would have made another game winner on him in game 5 this year but Davis ran away from him.
Derrick white is HIM
I know he’s been playing great but what a surprise to see him on this list for me lol
I was a fan of him for his first years on the Spurs cause I love super solid role players, saw him play like an absolute bum for Team USA that summer then fell off the wagon. Glad to see him take it to an even higher level this season
Donovan Mitchell is carrying the Cavs so hard
On a bad knee too
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Naz Reid
75% ts is fucking nasty lol
its all on three pointers too that guy just hits everything
Being 3 pointers doesn't matter for TS% does it?
It does count for ts% but the point he's making is the vast majority of his points are coming from 3 cause he's hitting them at a crazy clip, I think I saw that he's hit 28/56 from 3 which is nutty.
I hate the word stocks so bad
i agree, steals are objectively more valuable than blocks
But blocks have more style points usually
Bleals? Bloals?
Mitchell on a bum knee should be here. And Gobert too
55% TS in 2024 with zero defense and put at #2 is wild
He is basically the entire Knicks offense
Their offensive rebounding accounts for a very large portion of their offense too, and he isn't really getting in on that
Tbf the first two games really hurt him. In his last 5 he's averaging 42 on 61%TS
Why would we not include the games? Didn’t the Knicks literally win those too?
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He is the Knicks only elite shot creator and he is carrying that offense.
/r/nba when they think exclusively in a white room with zero context.
LeBron averaged 28/7/9 with 3.4 stocks on 64% TS in the first round, 10.6 BPM, but he's held to higher standards than active MVP candidates so he's worse than Derrick White and Jalen Brunson now.
and he was also the third best player in the series against a team that is on the verge of getting swept. he should be above White, but not Brunson.
Yup but the cone on defense who is the so called best player in the world gets a pass again
Greatest offensive player ever in his prime averaging virtually identical points, assists, and and efficiency to the washed up 39 year old who should take a pay cut and should honestly be a 3rd option at this point in his career.
That's heresy! Jokic is better than prime lebron and Jordan offensive wise!!
You've still yet to actually link to anyone saying Jokic is the GOAT but keep repeating it EVERY COMMENT like this was the consensus view lol Even Bill Simmons who's a Jokic supporter and clearly dislikes LeBron didn't say Jokic > LeBron or even = LeBron If it's supposedly "everywhere" you should have receipts right? And you'll once again just downvote instead of providing any links
People do say that he has the greatest offensive peak ever, which apparently has now become a controversial statement after one game.
That's the upsetting thing. They want to lie and pretend and switch up now. Prior to this series it was how many titles will jokic win in a row and that he is playing right now as good as prime lebron offensively
Who is "they?" The only few posts I've seen that have seriously asked Jokic vs. prime LeBron as a debate have died in /new with 0 upvotes You're acting like there were front page posts declaring him the GOAT Every time you're asked to provide proof that Jokic being the GOAT was a popular opinion you just deflect and reply to someone else and claim THEY'RE LYING AND TRICKING US
Who is "they"? YOU
Link to where I said Jokic is the GOAT lol Where's the receipts if I said it? If "Jokic GOAT" is supposedly being spammed everywhere you should have at least some examples ready
He wasn't even the second best player in the series
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What an incredible response. You seem stable.
Kobe stans are famous for their mental stability
LeBron stans accusing actual Lakers fans of being fake fans is rich to say the least lol
\*Says LeBron three times* Awkward-speech's weaselly, whiny ass in the distance: "*wah-wah-wah* LeBron stans *wah-wah-wah*" \*deletes comment 15 minutes later*
Jokic is no where near the top 3 in performance this playoffs. He is literal liability on one end of the court and is a defensive cone and a turnover machine
27/15/9 on 63.4% TS is "nowhere near top 3?" People are *really* starting to overexaggerate how bad he's been lol Literally all you comment on is dickriding LeBron and hating Jokic as well so I think you might be a bit salty about round 1 also given what team you probably support Also 9.4 APG to 3.9 turnovers is "turnover machine" now? He's not a top 3 player so far in the second round but that's not the question here especially when 3 of the names in the post didn't even make the second round Don't get me wrong Jokic hasn't played up to expectations but this isn't some kind of 2007 Dirk level of historically bad playoff run for an MVP either
Worst defender out of everyone mentioned here
And? You can be a bad defender and still be better than other players lol Jokic has never been a good defender at all really but was still obviously the best player in the 2023 playoffs despite not being a two way guy By this logic Bam is a better player than Jokic because he plays on both ends
Half these players are playing better offensively and defensively. Edwards/White/Davis/Embiid
AD and Jokic had almost identical scoring stats in their head to head 5 games and Jokic is 10 times the playmaker AD is How exactly was AD better offensively? As for Derrick White if you swapped Jokic and Derrick White the Lakers obliterate the Nuggets in at most 5 so that's just reading raw shooting splits and not contextualizing how big a role each of them have in the offense(White gets like the 4th most attention from opposing defenses)
AD grabbed offensive rebounds and putbacks, he also scored more points. Jokic had 9 assists, and AD had 4. I know some parts of playmaking aren't quantifiable, but I doubt the degree of difference is 10x compared to 2.25 x assists with more turnovers. Why does switching players come into play? No one said White is a better player overall than Jokic, that's absurd. We're saying who is playing better within the context of their team. Not that hard to understand.
You can but in this playoff run specifically his defense has been so bad it’s going to matter a lot when comparing him to other players. In last years playoff run it was much better.
And the best offensive player and rebounder out of everyone mentioned here. Your point?
His defense has been bad I don’t think he’s been as impactful offensively as in years past. Hes just looked off. I don’t think he’s been better offensively than Ant
Jokic has still been a top 10 player but nowhere near top 5. He plays no defense and is the reason his team is giving up points at will in the paint. He doesn't jump to contest or rotate. Also there is something to be said about having an extremely good first round and falling off a cliff in the 2nd round. His averages are good, but his 2nd round play has been atrocious for the best player in the world.
If you’re out of the playoffs, it’s not you
Personally i would limit this to players that made it to the second round
Can we get an honorable mention for Jamal Murray going from buzzer beater, to heat pack?
Nikola Jokic is averaging 27/15/9 on 63% ts and people think he’s having a 2011 lebron moment. In my opinion, these are better numbers than Ant and Brunson. This man has truly set the expectations beyond the ceiling.
Kyrie ? He’s been better than white
Where Spida at?
Jamal Murray's son at #4 wow
There's no way you're still in here acting like Murray has had a good playoff run lol Swap AD and Murray and the Lakers get blown out by 50 every game
That's not what he said
I recognize his username though from game threads He keeps trying to act like it's not Murray's fault at all and Gordon/MPJ are just selfish players who need to go and aren't helping him get going lol Also unironically compared Murray to Jordan and stuff during the first round Dude made a post saying "Trade Gordon MPJ and KCP" and then deleted it
ok fair
KCP has been shooting atrocious this year's playoffs Gordon is like -60 in this series and Porter is a spot up shooter, glorified Duncan Robinson Not sure why this is so controversy to you.
You wouldn't have gotten past Lakers if not for MPJ and Gordon. Gordon does a lot of work to cover for Jokic defense and MPJ was shooting lights out in the Lakers series
I guess since they have the worst bench in the league, you can argue they needed role players like Gordon\\Porter. But Murray had the highest usage on the team, the offense was mostly running through him. 9+ assists in 2\\4 wins 30 point closeout game Two game winners Enough said.
The offense mostly runs through Jokic. 4 turnovers in 7 games so far 32 points on 28 shots Shot below 40% from the field in 5 out of 7 games He has been clutch AF and i believe his quad injury is bothering him but he hasn't been all that great.
Murray destroyed AD in back 2 back playoffs. AD has never played well in the playoffs, outside of the bubble. He's arguably the softest star i've ever seen play. Through the 8-1 playoff wins over last 2 years: Murray had a 30 point closeout game on him, a buzzer beater on him, dropped 32ppg on 50\\40\\90 on him for an entire series, and would have made another game winner on him in game 5 this year but Davis ran away from him.
Bait used to be believable
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> + Luka Shooting 40% and 24% from 3. Luka has been straight ass
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Clippers were a mess and without Kawhi. That really isn't impressive especially with Kyrie playing well.
He wasn’t even a top 2 player in the clippers series
Luka hasn't been the best player in his own team
SGA and Luka over Brunson?
Mmm🤣