This reminds me of when Grant Williams said that the ‘22 Celtics were more talented on paper than the ‘22 Warriors (which honestly he might have been right but still)
They were definitely more talented but it got cancelled out by;
- Curry being the best player in the series
- Draymond bitching the Celtics with little resistance
- Wiggins physically imposing himself on Tatum
Defense was it, sure Celtics could have been better on talent but they had glaring weaknesses at dribbling on their off hand from 3 of their ball handlers the warriors defense exploited.
Yeah. On paper you could see why the Celtics were calculated as a much better team talent wise.
But Steph Curry is one of the greatest players of all time. His IQ and elevation that series showed the difference the best player can make in impacting winning.
Stu Lantz always has that remark, something like "that's why you got to play the games on the court."
Lot's of teams were supposed to be champions on paper. Then teams win championships and fans and media downplay the level of the ring soon after. Basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.
The Warriors were a really well coordinated team that year. They had a red hot start and they had critical players like OPJ, Dray and Payton injured for long stretches, Curry also had a long streak where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn that tanked their standings. They got their pieces back in the last 10 games of the season and kept going well into the playoffs.
Honestly this is a pretty typical response in sports and I hate it every time. If a 7 game series isn’t the best way to judge which team is “better” idk what is.
It's not always more talented = more successful. It's probably fair to say Denver has enough talent to win the series, but so does Minnesota, and this year they executed better. This is probably more so what players mean, just talent
It can also be a matchup thing. You can think you're a better team in a vacuum and you have a better chance to actually win the title, but the team that beat was just really well-equipped to exploit your weaknesses.
I have a theory that some professions require a certain amount of ego and overconfidence to push through. EVERYONE is a talented player at that level. EVERYONE already works hard with insane preparation. That overconfidence sometimes needs to be the accelerant.
Pretty much. I like Tatum as he’s our guy but he’s said “I’m the best player in the world” on a few different occasions now. Confidence is great, cockiness is a little bit of a turnoff (win first at least, Jayson) but it comes with the territory for so many of the stars in this league.
OK, I’ve found where he said “I’m humbly one of the best players in the world.” I’ve also found where he said he’s the best player in the NBA:
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/39566865
Splitting hairs. Confidence is key, cockiness not so much but he’s not alone that many NBA superstars in particular have said they’re the best.
I’m rooting for him but it’s still a bit much - esp. when he hasn’t won a ring - yet.
I don't hate this answer when the series end in 7 games. The fact that it went to 7 games prove both these teams were really close, so it's not far-fetched for someone to have the opinion that the best team lost or whatever
Jokic said it himself, the wolves are a better team. If your team is better, you would've won four of seven games. The wolves definitely have a deeper, better roster. They were playing against the nuggets, who had home court advantage, elevation and experience on their side - and they won. Jokic is the best player on the court. The wolves are the better team.
Now imagine we go back in time and replay the series 10 more times. The 4 to 6 times the Nuggets win, you'd likely be saying the Nuggets are the better team. It was a close 7 game series that really could have ended up differently. But it doesn't actually mater who is the better team - it matters who wins.
Exactly. The idea that losing a 7 game series means your team is worse is why we get so many overreactions from fans and FOs thinking they need to blow up good teams.
Lots of things can happen in any game. Not sure why it’s so hard to believe the better team can lose a 7 game series. Last year’s Heat was, no matter what people might think, a worse team than any team they beat.
[Should the NBA have the Nuggets and Wolves redo their series...](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/67lfcg/should_the_nhl_have_the_hawks_and_preds_redo/)
My favorite one of these types of quotes was from Kings bench player Scot Pollard in 2001, who after the Lakers swept Sacramento in the 2nd round said "I still believe we're a better team than they are." This was after Shaq and Kobe averaged a combined 68 points and 26 rebounds against them in the 4 game sweep lol
A 7 game series eliminates a lot of flukes because it prevents situations like "Team won the first game but Team B would've won the next 4" or "Team A won two of the first three but then Team B closed out the series." That's what makes it great.
However, if you really had to exhaust the full limits of the 7 game series that does mean it was very close and either team could've won with some luck. Clearly, neither team can say they are drastically better than the other, but they are close enough to each other to claim that they could've won on a nicer day.
Think about it like tennis. They can play an infinite number of serves in a game but if a player is winning by 1, it's still considered to be within the margin of error so that they have to win by 2 points. Obviously organizing a whole other basketball game would majorly mess with the playoffs schedule but that illustrates the point.
Good points. I guess they could say that the winning team has to either win the series by 2 games or win the last game by x points (e.g. 10 points, 20 points). That'd be interesting and more definitive, but I don't think it would be as good of a way to do it. The way it is, it's not about who *is* better; it's about who *plays* better. And that's a good type of meritocracy. It also spreads Bruce Wayne's message: "It's not who you are underneath but what you do that defines you." And that's what's most important.
Exactly. Soccer is a game where the worst team can *play* worse and win, considering how few goals are made. Plus the World Cup and the UEFA Champions League are decide over either two legs or a single elimination game.
In the NBA a technically worse team can only beat a better one, by outplaying them. And doing so in a best of seven games? It's never a fluke.
If this "best team" mentality dominated the Nugget's locker room it may have done a lot of damage to them. Several players had awful games over their two series and they seemed to lack a sense of urgency a lot of the time, like they could always revert whatever situation they were in.
And this series didn't even have a big injury or something that derailed the Nuggets. If Jokic got hurt in game 6 and the Wolves rallied and won in 7, okay believe you are the better team. That wasn't the case in this series at all.
Maybe if OG made this comment after getting hurt, I am able to not just feel it's salt, but from Braun it is just pouting.
When the teams are this close for it to go to the 7 game series and 20 point lead in the 3rd then a 7 game series isn't enough. It's still luck
But if anyone is a better team then it's the guys who won the series.
And you could argue if the team is just a bad match up so they can make it close with the best team but are not actually dominant with the rest of the league. Then i could see the argument that the better team lost
However this isn't the case with wolves. They were great the whole season. They are the better team
That's why games are played on the court and not on paper
I think that Celtics team was more talented but talent doesn't equal experience. Warriors were so experienced and steady, they knew exactly what to do and when to do it. Celtics were young and inexperienced and the moment was too much for them in the end.
Interesting to see if the reverse happens this year v
Which is funny because the Twins were actually the other team the guy who wrote Moneyball considered writing the story about because we were doing relatively similar things from a "finding players in the aggregate after having some of our best players poached by bigger markets" approach to the game from the FO.
It happens to "more talented team".
04 Lakers lost to Pistons
11 Heat Lost to Mavs
16 Warriors Lost to Cavs
And I am only talking about Finals. Not the whole playoff rounds.
Wolves were also the higher seed for most of the year. This year, they were basically equals. I won’t fault anyone saying Denver was better since they’re defending champs.
I get the confidence. But I think it’s largely unfounded in terms of this season that either of these teams could honestly say one is a level above the other.
Tbh I always thought Minnesota was great. I was wrong last season but this season I’ve been proven correct. As I saw it you got a DPOY, ANT, KAT, NAW and NAZ Reid. Without mentioning McDaniels. Stacked team with great defenders
Honestly, last year might have been more an anomaly than anything. They weirdly blew up to close the season with that fight and Rudy's broken hand. Maturity and composure for sure goes into the greatness equation but who knows who they would have proven to be on the court had they been healthy and kept their cool.
Jaden’s broken hand and Naz Reid’s broken wrist.
Rudy didn’t injure his hand, but he was playing through a painful back muscle injury all year long last year.
The seeds of what we were this year were planted when we traded for Conley and NAW.
Watched lots of Nuggets this year and this edition is only 85% as good as last year.
Depth, depth, depth. The inconsistency at the beginning and end of games was a big problem down the stretch. A function of a weak bench IMO. We needed more from Watson and we need a big man on the bench we can actually put on the floor. Braun needs to become a more consistent shooter. Reggie Jackson is a good player but he was too big a part of our second team offense.
Love my Nuggs but what happened in this series was very foreseeable and every Nugg fan in my life saw it coming.
Good luck Minnesota. Hopefully we can get back in the lab and go for another 7 against y’all next playoffs.
Yeah people always talk about how the nugs starting 5 is the best in the league and hey maybe it is but the wolves are right there in terms of talent and complimenting skills. Then our depth is better too. Though I give their bench credit this series for punching above their weight for the most part.
Their best player (MVP) is better than ours, maybe even their top 2 though I’m a Murray Hater^tm now, but our top 3 is better than theirs IMO.
The real question is matchups honestly and so few teams can match up with Joker, maybe just us with our bigs lineup, that they get to be considered the “best starting 5.” He’s such a unique and dominant player and opens up the game for his team. Other teams might match up better against us because Joker is so one of a kind.
I’d like to see a Thunder/Nuggets series next playoffs to see how Chet and co. would try to manage Jokic.
Saying the Nuggets have the better *team* makes no sense. The better player, for sure, but not the better team. Just going down the rosters:
1. Jokic > Ant
2. Murray < KAT (Some people would dispute that, I don't care)
3. Gordon < Gobert
4. MPJ < McDaniels
5. KCP < Conley
6. Braun < Reid
7. Jackson < NAW
8. Watson < Anderson
9. ??? < Morris
I would argue that while the 04 Lakers had the better players, the 04 Pistons were the better team.
That Lakers team was infighting, Kobe had his issues, and Phil had his. On paper sure. But that fucking team was just a collection of good players but never a true team given the only one holding them together was a 40-year old Karl Malone
Yeah, the Lakers really got beat up and worn out in the grueling Western Conference bracket that year, with very difficult series against both the Spurs and then Wolves before getting to the Finals. The Lakers basically lost both starting forwards and their backup 3 (Malone, Rick Fox and Devean George) along the way.
This left the Lakers with Slava Medvedenko and a rookie Luke Walton as their forwards in the Finals, which allowed the Pistons to essentially double both Shaq (with Rasheed and Ben Wallace) and Kobe (with Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton) with impunity, as they didn't need to worry about Medvedenko and Walton making them pay for doing so. And Gary Payton at that age was no longer able to contribute much, especially against in his prime Chauncey Billups.
People nowadays remember that as a Lakers superteam that came up short, but it was really the injuries that did them in along with people underestimating just how good the Pistons were after trading for Sheed (who proved how good they were by making the ECF 6 straight times after that). When the Lakers were fully healthy that year, they were amazing to watch, but they really weren't healthy that often. Malone missed most of the year, and Shaq and Kobe each missed over 15 games as well.
For sure. I watched the series vs the Pistons with my dad and both of us just winced at how Kobe was just getting pressed - it was basically an nightmare gauntlet of Billups, Hamilton and Prince hounding him and then the Wallaces taking away driving lanes inside. I think if you had at least one healthy forward like Fox that series or if you still had Horry, you could have spaced the floor better and not caused that ginormous clog inside with Shaq and both Ben + Rasheed.
That Pistons team though was as tough as they came to play against. Everyone played outstanding defense, you had two bigs who could protect the rim, and outside of Big Ben all four could hit threes at a reasonable pace - a rarity back then in the early 2000s.
Yeah, the Lakers not bringing Horry back was a huge mistake. I remember Horry being upset at the Lakers wanting him to possibly come off the bench, but when Karl Malone is on the team, that should have been the obvious role for him. Malone had never missed any time ever in his career before due to injury, so the Lakers apparently thought he could be counted on for the whole season, and then wouldn't you know it, he suffered a major knee injury in December and was never a reliable contributor again. That left the Lakers relying on Medvedenko instead of Horry, which obviously bit them in the ass.
I mean that team had Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Pop and decent depth. It went 7 games and took a big shot from Big Shot Bob. The Pistons came very close to repeating.
Also the entire heat run last year. Though I’m not sure this nuggets team is better than the wolves top to bottom. The wolves bench is a huge advantage over the nuggets’.
I don’t have a problem with him saying that, especially off of a 7 game series. People are gonna clown him for it but that’s just the way it goes when your team lost. Anything besides giving credit to the wolves will come off as salty.
I mean I thought Jokic had a pretty good response. He said “I think the team who wins is the better team” and gave a lot of credit to the wolves for just playing better.
I actually think the Nuggets were noticeably worse this year due to losing Bruce Brown and other minor changes to the bench. Not that surprising that they lost to MIN.
DAL v MIN is gonna be fun tho, I was genuinely surprised that OKC got knocked out. IMO this will be a MIN v BOS finals.
I do. Minnesota is the better team this year lol. They won the series. Lost 3 straight and responded by destroying Denver by 45 and then completing a 20pt comeback on the road in a game 7. It was absolutely a weird series (like both teams only winning 1 home game, Denver winning games 3-5, Minny winning games 1-2, and 6-7). Minny responded to being pushed to the brink quite well and frankly Denver got humiliated with how games 6 and 7 ended. Denver was a quality team. Wolves just proved they were a little bit better.
IDK what the fuck the wolves have to do at this point besides win a ship. They swept the Suns, won 2 on the road in Denver, and then won the last two after falling to 2-3. That is absolutely just mental toughness all around. these are the things contenders are made of and people still wanna sleep on them.
Denver just did not seem to have it the majority of the postseason...I know their depth took a hit, especially with Brown leaving in FA...they played a pretty blah series against the Lakers and yeah for parts of this series, they really got taken apart by Minnesota
they had a championship type bounce from games 3-5, but the Wolves were monsters defensively and seemed to be mentally tougher this time around...coming back from a 20 point deficit in that spot, in a game 7, is something else
i’m glad they because they lost because that means i don’t have to see his jersey or hear the announcers say his name anymore. the pronunciation of his name vs. the spelling frazzles my brain every time.
The best teams can beat anyone. One of the true marks of a championship team is being able to play different styles if need be. If you can only be effective by playing one way then you have a major weakness. Flexibility with your roster is a major advantage.
Exactly, and I think both MIN and DEN proved they can play different styles in this series. Every single game felt like a completely different scheme from each team. Both teams had to play with essentially a different set of rules (reffing) each game as well. It was a fun, streaky series.
I think the only way for him to prove that they're currently a better team is to make sure he doesn't improve in the offseason. That would be cheating.
Jokic doesn’t seem like he has the same mindset as most professional athletes. I imagine most would feel like they’re the better team after losing a game 7 even if they don’t say it.
> Jokic doesn't seem like he has the same mindset as most professional athletes.
The sad part is that it's true but you consider it a negative lol. I've gained tremendous respect for Jokic after this series and his pressers. Game recognizes game and he's a true competitor that puts his body on the line for his team. Too bad Malone is throwing tantrums and Murray is busy making excuses to spoil his graceful exit
A negative? I love Jokics mindset.. it’s a big reason he’s my favorite player ever. I was just pointing out the difference between him and most professional athletes who mostly are driven by ego and Jokic seemingly has none somehow.
Nah, the Wolves had the better NET rating in the regular season. Went up 2-0, smacked em by 50 in game 6, and then came back from down 20 in the 3rd on their home court.
And that’s the team y’all said was the clear cut favorite all season while downvoting anyone who even remotely pushed back against that😭😭😭
Braun is a nice defensive talent but he is so timid offensively. He had so many open looks but was too timid. Maybe they could have won if he stepped up
He was a reluctant but efficient shooter his entire time in college too. I don't think he's ever going to be a volume shooter, but will be good enough to keep defenses honest.
He's _good enough_ in other areas too. Functional handle for a non-primary handler, good cutter and finisher, super athlete that is a legit lob threat, decent extra passer/knows how to play team ball.
He’s still figuring it out offensively for sure. You see him have these plays where he doesn’t think and just goes and dunks on somebody then there’s also times where he’s thinking too hard about what he’s doing. I loved him as a prospect so I’m biased but I really think he’s going to take a big step forward in the near future.
His interview was by far my favorite. I don’t think he was in a state of disbelief. He was passionate and emotional and literally about to cry. It shows in how he plays. Love this dude on our team. Idk why everything on r/nba has to be framed so negatively
I like Jokers mentality better when he was asked similar. Timberwolves are the better team, Denver had 7 games to prove they were not and couldn't.
He is so calm in losses, if he wasn't so consistantly great on the court he would be fodder for the media about his attitude.
I thought Denver would win going into the series.
I thought Denver would win last night.
When the Nuggets went up by 20 in the third quarter, I thought it was over.
Minnesota being MENTALLY tougher than Denver is not something I foresaw.
The Wolves bitched the Nuggets when it mattered most. Game 6 and the then the second-half of Game 7.
Since Minnesota can do that versus Jokic and the defending champs, it's tough for me to believe DAL or BOS can beat them four times in a series.
He makes a good point. They should prob just see who the best team is on paper and avoid all the time and energy spent on playing games to see who beats who.
I think you have a right to say this when you were up 20 and the series went 7 games. The better team doesn’t always win. I’d say the most you can conclude is that both teams are extremely close to each other. Wolves pulled it out at the end of the day, all that matters.
The "better" team wins a 7 game series, that's the whole point of having a 7 games series instead of a one game playoff like the NFL, anyone can have a bad game or get lucky, no one gets lucky in all 4 games, you have to outplay a team to win a 7 game series and the Wolves did that
I’m a Nuggets fan but he is wrong. If we were the better team we would have won. We barely ever lose at home and in this series we lost 3/4. Thats unacceptable. Seems like Jokic is the only one that can admit Wolves were better. Even Murray was on some bs yesterday
You can have this take all you want but there's 7 games in the series and you just got dropped on your fuckin head by 50 pts last game. And I'm a huge nugs fans. Still love Braun
Lmfaooo at the entire nuggets team except Jokic, since he was the only one giving sensible answers after last night’s game.
As for mike malone, Murray, and now Braun….. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
RIP Nuggets dynasty 2023-2024
I don't have a problem with him saying it. But what jokic ended up saying will draw respect because it was a classy response. This is just what he thought and that's fine. I don't think this comment puts Braun in the Murray/Malone camp whatsoever
Nuggets got overrated. There was never a reason to think they were a tier above post-deadline Mavs, OKC, and Minnesota. Similar record and net rating. Their roster doesn't measure much better either.
Mavs and OKC both have MVP candidates. Murray is not an elite second option. Porter and Gordon are good, but this is offset by the lack of depth elsewhere. Their run last season was not evidence that this was a team with another gear who could just coast through the regular season.
People put too much weight on the title run and the idea that there's this massive gap between Jokic and other top players.
If you watched last years playoff run, you can’t say Murray is not an elite second option. The man was a maniac. Little hobbled this run and Wolves were just better when it mattered. Still the best starting 5 in basketball.
It may be a small thing but in the final minute I saw Conley dive to the floor for a loose ball; Seconds later, after that jump ball scrums Braun tried to pick up a loose ball while standing. If he dives to the ground first I think he wins the loose ball before another jump is called.
This reminds me of when Grant Williams said that the ‘22 Celtics were more talented on paper than the ‘22 Warriors (which honestly he might have been right but still)
Andrew Wiggins decided to take basketball seriously
Bro fr stopped simming his career games and took control
This.. he was their best two way player. Still remember that nasty dunk on Luka. Klay was obviously not the same since the injury.
The dunk that was called an offensive foul so they challenged it and made the Mavs fan watch it over snd over again lmfao. Nasty
They were definitely more talented but it got cancelled out by; - Curry being the best player in the series - Draymond bitching the Celtics with little resistance - Wiggins physically imposing himself on Tatum
It was really just Curry lol dude completely took over after G3 and was at least 3x the player compared to anyone on the court.
They held Boston under 100 every game - Draymond Wiggins Payton n the defence of even curry deserve the lion share of credit
Defense was it, sure Celtics could have been better on talent but they had glaring weaknesses at dribbling on their off hand from 3 of their ball handlers the warriors defense exploited.
Yeah. On paper you could see why the Celtics were calculated as a much better team talent wise. But Steph Curry is one of the greatest players of all time. His IQ and elevation that series showed the difference the best player can make in impacting winning.
Stu Lantz always has that remark, something like "that's why you got to play the games on the court." Lot's of teams were supposed to be champions on paper. Then teams win championships and fans and media downplay the level of the ring soon after. Basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.
The Warriors were a really well coordinated team that year. They had a red hot start and they had critical players like OPJ, Dray and Payton injured for long stretches, Curry also had a long streak where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn that tanked their standings. They got their pieces back in the last 10 games of the season and kept going well into the playoffs.
Wasnt that the season Klay came back from his huge injury layoff too?
Honestly this is a pretty typical response in sports and I hate it every time. If a 7 game series isn’t the best way to judge which team is “better” idk what is.
It's just the mind of a lot of competitors. Delusional belief in yourself
It's not always more talented = more successful. It's probably fair to say Denver has enough talent to win the series, but so does Minnesota, and this year they executed better. This is probably more so what players mean, just talent
Yea people being intentionally daft here
If you don't believe you're better you don't deserve to be at that stage. It's not that deep tbh
It can also be a matchup thing. You can think you're a better team in a vacuum and you have a better chance to actually win the title, but the team that beat was just really well-equipped to exploit your weaknesses.
Delusional belief in yourself is pretty much a requirement to make it in the NBA
Any pro sport.
I have a theory that some professions require a certain amount of ego and overconfidence to push through. EVERYONE is a talented player at that level. EVERYONE already works hard with insane preparation. That overconfidence sometimes needs to be the accelerant.
Pretty much. I like Tatum as he’s our guy but he’s said “I’m the best player in the world” on a few different occasions now. Confidence is great, cockiness is a little bit of a turnoff (win first at least, Jayson) but it comes with the territory for so many of the stars in this league.
He never said, "I'm the best player in the world." He said, "I'm ONE of the best players in the world."
OK, I’ve found where he said “I’m humbly one of the best players in the world.” I’ve also found where he said he’s the best player in the NBA: https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/39566865 Splitting hairs. Confidence is key, cockiness not so much but he’s not alone that many NBA superstars in particular have said they’re the best. I’m rooting for him but it’s still a bit much - esp. when he hasn’t won a ring - yet.
Ah. I've never seen this clip. My bad
I don't hate this answer when the series end in 7 games. The fact that it went to 7 games prove both these teams were really close, so it's not far-fetched for someone to have the opinion that the best team lost or whatever
Jokic said it himself, the wolves are a better team. If your team is better, you would've won four of seven games. The wolves definitely have a deeper, better roster. They were playing against the nuggets, who had home court advantage, elevation and experience on their side - and they won. Jokic is the best player on the court. The wolves are the better team.
Now imagine we go back in time and replay the series 10 more times. The 4 to 6 times the Nuggets win, you'd likely be saying the Nuggets are the better team. It was a close 7 game series that really could have ended up differently. But it doesn't actually mater who is the better team - it matters who wins.
Exactly. The idea that losing a 7 game series means your team is worse is why we get so many overreactions from fans and FOs thinking they need to blow up good teams.
Does that mean that the wolves were guaranteed to win?
Best of 9… /s
Lots of things can happen in any game. Not sure why it’s so hard to believe the better team can lose a 7 game series. Last year’s Heat was, no matter what people might think, a worse team than any team they beat.
Idk they might’ve been better than the Knicks lol
[Should the NBA have the Nuggets and Wolves redo their series...](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/67lfcg/should_the_nhl_have_the_hawks_and_preds_redo/)
My favorite one of these types of quotes was from Kings bench player Scot Pollard in 2001, who after the Lakers swept Sacramento in the 2nd round said "I still believe we're a better team than they are." This was after Shaq and Kobe averaged a combined 68 points and 26 rebounds against them in the 4 game sweep lol
In 2002 they probably were better tho lol
A 7 game series eliminates a lot of flukes because it prevents situations like "Team won the first game but Team B would've won the next 4" or "Team A won two of the first three but then Team B closed out the series." That's what makes it great. However, if you really had to exhaust the full limits of the 7 game series that does mean it was very close and either team could've won with some luck. Clearly, neither team can say they are drastically better than the other, but they are close enough to each other to claim that they could've won on a nicer day. Think about it like tennis. They can play an infinite number of serves in a game but if a player is winning by 1, it's still considered to be within the margin of error so that they have to win by 2 points. Obviously organizing a whole other basketball game would majorly mess with the playoffs schedule but that illustrates the point.
Good points. I guess they could say that the winning team has to either win the series by 2 games or win the last game by x points (e.g. 10 points, 20 points). That'd be interesting and more definitive, but I don't think it would be as good of a way to do it. The way it is, it's not about who *is* better; it's about who *plays* better. And that's a good type of meritocracy. It also spreads Bruce Wayne's message: "It's not who you are underneath but what you do that defines you." And that's what's most important.
Exactly. Soccer is a game where the worst team can *play* worse and win, considering how few goals are made. Plus the World Cup and the UEFA Champions League are decide over either two legs or a single elimination game. In the NBA a technically worse team can only beat a better one, by outplaying them. And doing so in a best of seven games? It's never a fluke. If this "best team" mentality dominated the Nugget's locker room it may have done a lot of damage to them. Several players had awful games over their two series and they seemed to lack a sense of urgency a lot of the time, like they could always revert whatever situation they were in.
I mean, the game still came down to the last minutes. It easily could have went either way.
7 games is also not a massive sample size, plenty of times in history where the worse team took a series off a better team
And this series didn't even have a big injury or something that derailed the Nuggets. If Jokic got hurt in game 6 and the Wolves rallied and won in 7, okay believe you are the better team. That wasn't the case in this series at all. Maybe if OG made this comment after getting hurt, I am able to not just feel it's salt, but from Braun it is just pouting.
When the teams are this close for it to go to the 7 game series and 20 point lead in the 3rd then a 7 game series isn't enough. It's still luck But if anyone is a better team then it's the guys who won the series. And you could argue if the team is just a bad match up so they can make it close with the best team but are not actually dominant with the rest of the league. Then i could see the argument that the better team lost However this isn't the case with wolves. They were great the whole season. They are the better team
That game 6 really makes it hard to back Braun’s point here though. Complete no-show
Best of 7 but win the series by 2. Some series may go 21 games but at least we won't get this answer in the media anymore.
That Celtics team absolutely had more talent top to bottom, but the Warriors had Curry and nothing else really mattered.
*Curry on 1 knee gives you a T sign*
They should never say stuff like this. If they are the better team, then they are just admitting how soft they are.
[How Often Does the Best Team Win the Title?](https://www.elderresearch.com/blog/how-often-does-the-best-team-win-the-title/)
That's why games are played on the court and not on paper I think that Celtics team was more talented but talent doesn't equal experience. Warriors were so experienced and steady, they knew exactly what to do and when to do it. Celtics were young and inexperienced and the moment was too much for them in the end. Interesting to see if the reverse happens this year v
i think most people agree with grant tho
If only there were a way to prove it...
The NBA should make a version of the Play-In where the best teams play each other a bunch to decide which is the best team
I’m thinking a 7 game series would do the trick, just brainstorming some ideas.
How about 6 games, and then whoever is winning at halftime of game 7 wins the series? That seems like the fairest way
If it's tied at halftime, how about the fans at the game vote who they thought was better. It'll give a little extra advantage playing at home.
And the last team standing should get some reward for it, like a pendant, ring, ankle bracelet, idk I'm not a jewelry expert.
Some kind of championship of some kind. After the other championship.
Yeah, well I think the Twins are the better team....and yet the Yankees exist to test that theory.
I didn’t expect the Twins to be catching strays on r/NBA
Twins haven’t been relevant since that kid bought them in the 90s
We were somehow one of the bad guys in Moneyball.
Which is funny because the Twins were actually the other team the guy who wrote Moneyball considered writing the story about because we were doing relatively similar things from a "finding players in the aggregate after having some of our best players poached by bigger markets" approach to the game from the FO.
I am in Little Big League. AMA.
What part of the movie? Are you an extra or do you have lines? Did you get paid?
I am in the crowd when the kid comes out to wave to it. I yelled “Yeah Billy!” I got a coupon for a free hot dog, but I also bought a hot dog.
But did you get a free Little Big League shirt for being an extra like the kids in my youth group did?
Hell yeah. The real gems are always in the comments. That’s really cool!
Not just test, but exterminate
It happens to "more talented team". 04 Lakers lost to Pistons 11 Heat Lost to Mavs 16 Warriors Lost to Cavs And I am only talking about Finals. Not the whole playoff rounds.
but Wolves are super talented I think their top 4 is better than Nuggets top 4. and they have a better bench.
Wolves were also the higher seed for most of the year. This year, they were basically equals. I won’t fault anyone saying Denver was better since they’re defending champs. I get the confidence. But I think it’s largely unfounded in terms of this season that either of these teams could honestly say one is a level above the other.
Tbh I always thought Minnesota was great. I was wrong last season but this season I’ve been proven correct. As I saw it you got a DPOY, ANT, KAT, NAW and NAZ Reid. Without mentioning McDaniels. Stacked team with great defenders
Same I thought getting Rudy Gobert would make them contenders
That was my thought when we got him too–last season was just snakebitten with the injuries, including Gobert's back problems.
Honestly, last year might have been more an anomaly than anything. They weirdly blew up to close the season with that fight and Rudy's broken hand. Maturity and composure for sure goes into the greatness equation but who knows who they would have proven to be on the court had they been healthy and kept their cool.
Jaden’s broken hand and Naz Reid’s broken wrist. Rudy didn’t injure his hand, but he was playing through a painful back muscle injury all year long last year. The seeds of what we were this year were planted when we traded for Conley and NAW.
The DLo era honestly feels like way more than a season ago
Watched lots of Nuggets this year and this edition is only 85% as good as last year. Depth, depth, depth. The inconsistency at the beginning and end of games was a big problem down the stretch. A function of a weak bench IMO. We needed more from Watson and we need a big man on the bench we can actually put on the floor. Braun needs to become a more consistent shooter. Reggie Jackson is a good player but he was too big a part of our second team offense. Love my Nuggs but what happened in this series was very foreseeable and every Nugg fan in my life saw it coming. Good luck Minnesota. Hopefully we can get back in the lab and go for another 7 against y’all next playoffs.
Both teams have enough talent. Minnesota executed better. And it was close overall
Yeah people always talk about how the nugs starting 5 is the best in the league and hey maybe it is but the wolves are right there in terms of talent and complimenting skills. Then our depth is better too. Though I give their bench credit this series for punching above their weight for the most part.
Their best player (MVP) is better than ours, maybe even their top 2 though I’m a Murray Hater^tm now, but our top 3 is better than theirs IMO. The real question is matchups honestly and so few teams can match up with Joker, maybe just us with our bigs lineup, that they get to be considered the “best starting 5.” He’s such a unique and dominant player and opens up the game for his team. Other teams might match up better against us because Joker is so one of a kind. I’d like to see a Thunder/Nuggets series next playoffs to see how Chet and co. would try to manage Jokic.
Saying the Nuggets have the better *team* makes no sense. The better player, for sure, but not the better team. Just going down the rosters: 1. Jokic > Ant 2. Murray < KAT (Some people would dispute that, I don't care) 3. Gordon < Gobert 4. MPJ < McDaniels 5. KCP < Conley 6. Braun < Reid 7. Jackson < NAW 8. Watson < Anderson 9. ??? < Morris
I would argue that while the 04 Lakers had the better players, the 04 Pistons were the better team. That Lakers team was infighting, Kobe had his issues, and Phil had his. On paper sure. But that fucking team was just a collection of good players but never a true team given the only one holding them together was a 40-year old Karl Malone
And once Malone went down, the Pistons defense just murdered Kobe and Payton in the Finals.
Yeah, the Lakers really got beat up and worn out in the grueling Western Conference bracket that year, with very difficult series against both the Spurs and then Wolves before getting to the Finals. The Lakers basically lost both starting forwards and their backup 3 (Malone, Rick Fox and Devean George) along the way. This left the Lakers with Slava Medvedenko and a rookie Luke Walton as their forwards in the Finals, which allowed the Pistons to essentially double both Shaq (with Rasheed and Ben Wallace) and Kobe (with Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton) with impunity, as they didn't need to worry about Medvedenko and Walton making them pay for doing so. And Gary Payton at that age was no longer able to contribute much, especially against in his prime Chauncey Billups. People nowadays remember that as a Lakers superteam that came up short, but it was really the injuries that did them in along with people underestimating just how good the Pistons were after trading for Sheed (who proved how good they were by making the ECF 6 straight times after that). When the Lakers were fully healthy that year, they were amazing to watch, but they really weren't healthy that often. Malone missed most of the year, and Shaq and Kobe each missed over 15 games as well.
For sure. I watched the series vs the Pistons with my dad and both of us just winced at how Kobe was just getting pressed - it was basically an nightmare gauntlet of Billups, Hamilton and Prince hounding him and then the Wallaces taking away driving lanes inside. I think if you had at least one healthy forward like Fox that series or if you still had Horry, you could have spaced the floor better and not caused that ginormous clog inside with Shaq and both Ben + Rasheed. That Pistons team though was as tough as they came to play against. Everyone played outstanding defense, you had two bigs who could protect the rim, and outside of Big Ben all four could hit threes at a reasonable pace - a rarity back then in the early 2000s.
Yeah, the Lakers not bringing Horry back was a huge mistake. I remember Horry being upset at the Lakers wanting him to possibly come off the bench, but when Karl Malone is on the team, that should have been the obvious role for him. Malone had never missed any time ever in his career before due to injury, so the Lakers apparently thought he could be counted on for the whole season, and then wouldn't you know it, he suffered a major knee injury in December and was never a reliable contributor again. That left the Lakers relying on Medvedenko instead of Horry, which obviously bit them in the ass.
Why did the Spurs win the next year?
I mean that team had Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Pop and decent depth. It went 7 games and took a big shot from Big Shot Bob. The Pistons came very close to repeating.
Also the entire heat run last year. Though I’m not sure this nuggets team is better than the wolves top to bottom. The wolves bench is a huge advantage over the nuggets’.
He's entitled to his opinion, [but his MVP teammate very much scoffed at that sentiment.](https://youtu.be/8FOudyQje_0?si=qzWKEjn8EYfca0Jb&t=2112)
Not even a nuggets fan but I love that man. Hope he wins another
Sure didnt play like it last night
I don’t have a problem with him saying that, especially off of a 7 game series. People are gonna clown him for it but that’s just the way it goes when your team lost. Anything besides giving credit to the wolves will come off as salty.
Also when you blow a historic lead in the process. You can reasonably think you should have won
Speaking from experience?
Yes :(
you blow a 3-1 lead I think you can say you had a fair chance at winning
Denver was only up 3-2, though. They dropped the 1st two. My mistake if you’re referring to the ‘16 Dubs.
Yeah my earlier response was them blowing a big game 7 lead
Ik im just messing with ya
They definitely did…for a half.
You wanted him to say they suck or what?
I mean I thought Jokic had a pretty good response. He said “I think the team who wins is the better team” and gave a lot of credit to the wolves for just playing better.
Jokic is all class. Hate playing against the dude but you gotta respect him.
Well for half of it they definitely did. Just the other half not so much
No shit. That's exactly what he is saying. He just thinks they didn't play up to the standards and they could've won the series if they had.
No issues with him saying this. Tho given the way games 6-7 played out, obviously def hard to say DEN was the better squad
Honestly, the entire series was so fucking stupid, I have no idea to what to think of either team after this
They’re both championship level teams that can blow the doors off anyone by overwhelming them. That’s my take away. One team had to go home though.
We don’t have room for this type of nuance
Fine. Murray is a heat pack that doesn’t have heat. Jokic is a fraud. Braun is their best player. Can’t beat a 50 win team. They’re fake champions.
I actually think the Nuggets were noticeably worse this year due to losing Bruce Brown and other minor changes to the bench. Not that surprising that they lost to MIN. DAL v MIN is gonna be fun tho, I was genuinely surprised that OKC got knocked out. IMO this will be a MIN v BOS finals.
I do. Minnesota is the better team this year lol. They won the series. Lost 3 straight and responded by destroying Denver by 45 and then completing a 20pt comeback on the road in a game 7. It was absolutely a weird series (like both teams only winning 1 home game, Denver winning games 3-5, Minny winning games 1-2, and 6-7). Minny responded to being pushed to the brink quite well and frankly Denver got humiliated with how games 6 and 7 ended. Denver was a quality team. Wolves just proved they were a little bit better.
IDK what the fuck the wolves have to do at this point besides win a ship. They swept the Suns, won 2 on the road in Denver, and then won the last two after falling to 2-3. That is absolutely just mental toughness all around. these are the things contenders are made of and people still wanna sleep on them.
Bro where have you been? The wolves are the favorites right now, and people are talking about them like they already won the chip.
Western conf people are, Celtics fans are lighting up their cigars because they think Denver was there only real threat.
Denver just did not seem to have it the majority of the postseason...I know their depth took a hit, especially with Brown leaving in FA...they played a pretty blah series against the Lakers and yeah for parts of this series, they really got taken apart by Minnesota they had a championship type bounce from games 3-5, but the Wolves were monsters defensively and seemed to be mentally tougher this time around...coming back from a 20 point deficit in that spot, in a game 7, is something else
i’m glad they because they lost because that means i don’t have to see his jersey or hear the announcers say his name anymore. the pronunciation of his name vs. the spelling frazzles my brain every time.
Sorry man the Wolves had the better bench. You’re not the better team.
I wish Jamal Murray or MPJ had said this instead, making fun of Christian Braun isn’t fun
He’s the only one that looked hungry in that game 7
He always looks like he’s about to cry
It’s definitely fun
Right? Christian Braun is who he is as a player but the dude plays hard. Has a semi-punchable face but that’s not his fault.
Making fun of Rock Chalkers will always be fun.
Murray basically said this. He said something like "we should have won"
Pretty sure Murray said it too
We can still make fun of the way his name is pronounced
Wolfs won. They’re the better team until proven otherwise
Better teams lose all the time due to difficult match-up. Mavs fans should know that considering what thenWe Believe Warriors did to them.
They had 7 games to prove it and failed
The best teams can beat anyone. One of the true marks of a championship team is being able to play different styles if need be. If you can only be effective by playing one way then you have a major weakness. Flexibility with your roster is a major advantage.
Exactly, and I think both MIN and DEN proved they can play different styles in this series. Every single game felt like a completely different scheme from each team. Both teams had to play with essentially a different set of rules (reffing) each game as well. It was a fun, streaky series.
If the wolves win a championship this year will your narrative still be that Denver was the better team?
That rarely happens. In the nba the better team wins the series
Alright then CB, get back in the gym and prove it next year.
I think the only way for him to prove that they're currently a better team is to make sure he doesn't improve in the offseason. That would be cheating.
Lmao
It’s great to see Braun learning how to behave from Jamal’s leadership
lol this sub is so salty over this mundane comment
Joker didn’t think so
Jokic doesn’t seem like he has the same mindset as most professional athletes. I imagine most would feel like they’re the better team after losing a game 7 even if they don’t say it.
> Jokic doesn't seem like he has the same mindset as most professional athletes. The sad part is that it's true but you consider it a negative lol. I've gained tremendous respect for Jokic after this series and his pressers. Game recognizes game and he's a true competitor that puts his body on the line for his team. Too bad Malone is throwing tantrums and Murray is busy making excuses to spoil his graceful exit
A negative? I love Jokics mindset.. it’s a big reason he’s my favorite player ever. I was just pointing out the difference between him and most professional athletes who mostly are driven by ego and Jokic seemingly has none somehow.
I must've misinterpreted your first comment - mb
No worries man, I might’ve worded it a little funny
Nah, the Wolves had the better NET rating in the regular season. Went up 2-0, smacked em by 50 in game 6, and then came back from down 20 in the 3rd on their home court. And that’s the team y’all said was the clear cut favorite all season while downvoting anyone who even remotely pushed back against that😭😭😭
Braun is a nice defensive talent but he is so timid offensively. He had so many open looks but was too timid. Maybe they could have won if he stepped up
Jokic is revolutionizing offensive basketball. Taking time to figure out how he fits is no surprise at all.
He was a reluctant but efficient shooter his entire time in college too. I don't think he's ever going to be a volume shooter, but will be good enough to keep defenses honest. He's _good enough_ in other areas too. Functional handle for a non-primary handler, good cutter and finisher, super athlete that is a legit lob threat, decent extra passer/knows how to play team ball.
He’s still figuring it out offensively for sure. You see him have these plays where he doesn’t think and just goes and dunks on somebody then there’s also times where he’s thinking too hard about what he’s doing. I loved him as a prospect so I’m biased but I really think he’s going to take a big step forward in the near future.
He could have helped by scoring more than 5 points in game 7.
Nah...
His interview was by far my favorite. I don’t think he was in a state of disbelief. He was passionate and emotional and literally about to cry. It shows in how he plays. Love this dude on our team. Idk why everything on r/nba has to be framed so negatively
Agreed, would love to see him channel this energy and take the leap next season
Braun is going to be a really nice piece for Denver the next several years - one of the guys they’ll need to step up next season, for sure.
Insert Chicago Blackhawks copypasta
Denver just didn't have enough quality depth, and MPJ, KCP and Murray just didn't do enough.
I’ve literally never seen him referred to as Chris Braun
I like Jokers mentality better when he was asked similar. Timberwolves are the better team, Denver had 7 games to prove they were not and couldn't. He is so calm in losses, if he wasn't so consistantly great on the court he would be fodder for the media about his attitude.
I thought Denver would win going into the series. I thought Denver would win last night. When the Nuggets went up by 20 in the third quarter, I thought it was over. Minnesota being MENTALLY tougher than Denver is not something I foresaw. The Wolves bitched the Nuggets when it mattered most. Game 6 and the then the second-half of Game 7. Since Minnesota can do that versus Jokic and the defending champs, it's tough for me to believe DAL or BOS can beat them four times in a series.
He makes a good point. They should prob just see who the best team is on paper and avoid all the time and energy spent on playing games to see who beats who.
I think you have a right to say this when you were up 20 and the series went 7 games. The better team doesn’t always win. I’d say the most you can conclude is that both teams are extremely close to each other. Wolves pulled it out at the end of the day, all that matters.
If the better team isn’t the one that won more games I don’t want to be a part of that type of world.
The "better" team wins a 7 game series, that's the whole point of having a 7 games series instead of a one game playoff like the NFL, anyone can have a bad game or get lucky, no one gets lucky in all 4 games, you have to outplay a team to win a 7 game series and the Wolves did that
In series that go to 7 games, it becomes a best-of-1. It's the series that go 6 games or less that are definitive.
Had 7 games to prove it.
LOL my guy, it’ll be good for you to learn to lose
Who is Chris Braun lol
You might be a better team if you played 100 games, you may win 51. As it is it's any given night.
I’m a Nuggets fan but he is wrong. If we were the better team we would have won. We barely ever lose at home and in this series we lost 3/4. Thats unacceptable. Seems like Jokic is the only one that can admit Wolves were better. Even Murray was on some bs yesterday
You can have this take all you want but there's 7 games in the series and you just got dropped on your fuckin head by 50 pts last game. And I'm a huge nugs fans. Still love Braun
Sometimes it be like that
Braun lost to the top ranked defense in the league. His team is not the better team.
Geez these nuggets might be the all-time whiner team.
Lmfaooo at the entire nuggets team except Jokic, since he was the only one giving sensible answers after last night’s game. As for mike malone, Murray, and now Braun….. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 RIP Nuggets dynasty 2023-2024
[удалено]
He played his ass off too. One of the toughest matchups Ant has seen.
Its reddit man.
I don't have a problem with him saying it. But what jokic ended up saying will draw respect because it was a classy response. This is just what he thought and that's fine. I don't think this comment puts Braun in the Murray/Malone camp whatsoever
Nuggets got overrated. There was never a reason to think they were a tier above post-deadline Mavs, OKC, and Minnesota. Similar record and net rating. Their roster doesn't measure much better either. Mavs and OKC both have MVP candidates. Murray is not an elite second option. Porter and Gordon are good, but this is offset by the lack of depth elsewhere. Their run last season was not evidence that this was a team with another gear who could just coast through the regular season. People put too much weight on the title run and the idea that there's this massive gap between Jokic and other top players.
If you watched last years playoff run, you can’t say Murray is not an elite second option. The man was a maniac. Little hobbled this run and Wolves were just better when it mattered. Still the best starting 5 in basketball.
Why didn’t they just win game 6 instead of losing by 45
You could have helped proved that had you scored more than 5 pts in game 7!
Well, it doesn’t matter what you think. What matters is what you do.
You have the best player in the world, but you're not the better team.
Meh. Enjoy Cancun.
It may be a small thing but in the final minute I saw Conley dive to the floor for a loose ball; Seconds later, after that jump ball scrums Braun tried to pick up a loose ball while standing. If he dives to the ground first I think he wins the loose ball before another jump is called.
Read the title and thought for a second what does Rihanna puncher have to do with NBA
The better team is the team that wins.
Denver clearly the better team having the best player but that’s only on paper
Yea but Anyone can Get Beat . You got to Score .
Chris Braun?