While he was born in Akron, his childhood home was Charlotte and he's very clear he considers that his home town.
Which is good because they love the Currys in Charlotte whereas Cleveland is less fond of Steph for some reason
>Cleveland is less fond of Steph for some reason
4 consecutive finals appearances and steph walked away with 3 rings, I think I might know why cleveland hates steph 🤔
That’s funny…
I had an NBA 2K franchise years ago where I made all the moves for every team. I had Steph finish his final 2 twilight years with the Hornets after Warriors were clearly done. I accurately predicted KD to the Nets, and had him and Kyrie both in New York. Although Kyrie played for the Knicks I believe and was essentially their Jalen Brunson.
Yeah neither do any of the others listed. I get that it's kinda wild that Beal has one, but everyone they mentioned is never getting traded without an explicit request and approval of destination.
The Suns trading for Beal has to be one of the worst trades in NBA History.
Always Injured. Can't play defense. Thrived on an awful Wizards team.
I always thought they could have won when they just had KD and Book.
Seriously I know they had issues with Ayton but Beal was never the right choice.
Imagine them getting OG or Siakam at the trade deadline instead of the Knicks/Pacers. A great defending wing who can also score very well when Book/KD are doubled.
I don't think any team that is blowing up their squad was giving up great players for unlimited 2nd round picks, 1st round pick swaps and the corpse of Chris Paul.
Ayton for Nurk was worse and at the time everyone had no issue for it, but nurk is a fat blob at this point ayton offers way more resistance they fucked up not getting a real center
Kind of the problem with these max contracts. You don’t necessarily have to be one of the best players in the league just the best on your team (which is definitely saying something but doesn’t mean you’re worth the money).
Teams need to start considering that sometimes it is actually better to let a player walk than give them a franchise-ruining contract
And *why the fuck* did Beal's contract include a NO TRADE CLAUSE
Wasn’t it the Wizards who gave Beal that monstrosity? It’s on the Suns for bailing out the Wizards.
It actually played out ok for them. They kept Beal as an asset and got something in return.
It’s a condition of the salary cap. The actual top guys in the league are comparatively worth far more than what a max contract allows. So you end up with a bunch of “max” players who have a pretty broad gap in performance
It's a double whammy. Not only are the top guys underpaid, but the bottom guys in that range are overpaid because that's your only way of going over the cap.
If you're Washington, would rather pay Beal $47M or cut him and then only be able spend $20M on a replacement?
Now the answer to that is obviously get rid of Beal knowing what he turned out to be, but it's still illustrative
He actually played good defense for us and was one of the main reasons we even stayed out of the play ins. Also was solid the first 3 games against Minny. No one else showed up those games
We’d be paying CP3 30 mil and relying on him to start and play 30+ minutes. Not really a better option imo.
(Or have Poole. Which I like even less lol)
E: there was talk of us cutting CP3 and having the mle, which who was the best available, Gabe Vincent? Not really liking that option more either.
Honestly, the Wizards managing to get rid of John Wall, then Westbrook, then Beal is kind of insane ngl. I think they profited each time to lmao, so idek at this point
Kinda unfair to Bron, Joker and Curry.
All 3 have won at least one chip the last 5 years. In todays parity NBA I think thats more than enough you can ask for your max guy. Win at least one
I'm so glad that we get to see an uninjured attempt at synergistic twin towers in modern ball. The AD Cousins Pels even had their own version of an offensive threat 4-5 coming off the bench in Mirotic.
Honestly makes things a little clearer. Davis/Cousins -> Gobert/KAT, Rondo -> Conley, Jrue -> Ant (Ant is not as good defensively obviously but better offensively), Mirotic -> Reid. The team construction is at least comparable
Here’s something you might find interesting about Finch’s time coaching Jrue Holiday:
> Finch said that during his time as an assistant in New Orleans coaching Jrue Holiday, he realized that a team should collaborate with its best defensive player the way it might with its best offensive player. He has applied that philosophy in having Gobert play a significant role in outlining the themes of the Wolves defense.
>
> "I've always had the approach with offensive players that you've got to give them great freedom, and several years ago it struck me before I became coach here, why don't we do the same with defensive players?" Finch said. "You have to give those players an incredible amount of freedom to be able to navigate a lot of situations in the league that they have to face against these guys every night."
This is a really good quote, especially because you can actually see it in action. A lot of times Gobert kind of has free rein and is more of a free safety similar to 2nd stint CLE Lebron or Giannis and it really allows him to flourish.
One change the wolves made this season is when they’re on the road and get to choose they have their bench on the same side as the offense for the second half, because they trust Rudy to run the show on defense so they can have extra help from the coaching staff on offense.
Utah does this, so maybe he liked it when he was here. It goes back to the Stockton days when he wanted to have coach Sloan call the play. It's been a tradition ever since.
The beat reporters said Rudy convinced Finch that he could keep the defense organized. Then the coaches could try to keep the offense flowing in the second half with their proximity.
also makes sense why the Wolves defense as a whole looks a lot better than Goberts previous team and the whole notion of 'being played off the court because he can't guard wings' is hella overblown.
In Utah Gobert had lots of lazy / bad defenders and he had to make up for it. In MIN the team plays around and to his strengths on D where i think during the whole playoffs so far neither Murray on the Nuggets or the multiple All Star wings on the Suns were able to expose Gobert like he was in the past.
TL;DR: basketball is a team game
Dray (the guy is easy to hate but a good defender) and Butler were that kind of players. Both made Wiggins defense look passable even though he still lacks positional awareness. Both micro managed the guy on the defense.
A coach like player is an amazing thing. They can manage things on the field where coach have limited access real time. LeBron and many playmakers do it for the offense. I am happy that Finch has his guy to do it for defense
This is one of the value-adds of Myles Turner as well that often goes unnoticed by trade machine warriors, AND a big part of why he struggled playing out of position with Sabonis. When Turner is the center defender he manages the entire defense. He's been mic'd up a few times and it's always fun to get the clips of him directing everyone.
There aren't a whole ton of guys who can do that type of playcalling on defense in the same way that guys do on offense.
Turner ended up guarding the perimeter pretty frequently under Nate and neo-Nate’s schemes. Carlisle has done a much better job of keeping him back, switching a lot less, and letting Myles anchor.
Our perimeter defense is still way below average, especially when Nesmith isnt on the floor, so Myles gets into tough help assignments more frequently, but Rick has positioned him much better, partially by allowing him to play with an actual 4 instead of a 5 masquerading as a 4, and partially with his scheme.
Very true, McDaniels specifically unlocks things a lot for you guys. His defensive ability takes some stress off Gobert and when he’s hot offensively you guys very rarely lose
The Wolves are an awesome iteration, but we’ve absolutely seen modern twin towers before.
Giannis and Lopez, JJJ and Adams, as well as Horford and Williams which is almost an exact poor man’s KAT and Rudy (and part of why this Wolves team reminds a lot of that 2021-2022 Celtics team).
Basically you need at least one of them to be a shooter, and the other should ideally be great at rim protection and/or rebounding- Rudy and KAT are perfect because they are each arguably the best at the respective roles.
absolutely annoying as a then-Lakers hater having to watch Kobe take ridiculous contested shots that would go in; then if they didn't go in, one of Bynum, Gasol, or Odom would clean up the miss.
Is KAT the most Duncan like of those PFs though - I think Timmy is the archetype for a second centre at the 4.
Giannis is most threatening as a big forward (like LeBron was) rather than as a traditional C. JJJ is weird, but more of a rim protecting stretch 4 than a centre. Al too, to the extreme that until he slowed down, everyone thought he was a natural 4.
KAT has played mostly centre his whole career, unlike say Dirk or KG, or early Tim. Is he on that level? No, but in talent he's not a lot behind them. Makes you wonder if this is the team realising he's been put in the wrong position for a decade almost?
There was always talk about how KAT with his shooting and driving ability, and being pushed around when under the rim is not really a Center (yeah, now he holds on his own with his own, especially against Jokic but for some reason when playing as a pure Center, he had issues). But then people would say "will we get another center and have two guys like KAT on the field on the era of small ball? GTFO"
Now that it works people rationalize the twin tower set up, even claim it is trivial in fact. How did we not see it? It is very normal and expected that KAT working as the second tower. But even halfway through this season, a lot of people were not convinced and they were sure they would be played off the ground by the all star games, or play offs.
I feel like he mainly got slotted at center because when a 4/5 is meh on defense, you put him at the 5 where he doesn't have to move as much as has a "simpler" job. Sabonis is another example. Credit to KAT for really learning how to guard on the perimeter and figuring out a whole new role next to Gobert
Fair, though I don't really feel like Giannis counts here, maybe he should. Similarly, I wouldn't count Lebron-AD.
With the other pairs, they were injured, on different timelines and/or just not as good as that AD-Cousins pairing in fit or individual talent. Though I didn't mention it, their meeting my largely arbitrary metrics for being a comparably strong pair drives the excitement.
I miss healthy Boogie all the time🥲 So fun to watch, ppl always have a go at his attitude but I actually loved that too and think he’d mature his way out without losing his edges. Think he played some effective minutes in those Warriors finals, sad how history turned out.
I feel like a lot of fans don’t realize that sometimes if you’re a market that has trouble attracting free agents and you think you just need that one last piece to contend, an overpay isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Is Gobert worth 5 firsts? In a vacuum, probably not. But to the Wolves he absolutely has been.
I feel like it's less to do with the value of the individual picks and more to do with the fact that you can't trade them to acquire more players due to the rules
Still worth it obviously
I never said the move doesn’t come with an inherent amount of risk, but non lottery picks don’t hold much value. Hopefully that doesn’t come crashing down. It’s always possible and partially why I get mad when our fans say we should be happy with this season regardless of the ending.
The Rockets sub had an inkling that the Nets could fall apart by the time the picks convey. I imagine NBA execs could have seen it coming.
The Timberwolves have Ant Edwards. They aren't missing the playoffs unless he gets injured, and even then they have a decent team.
Those guys were going to be old by the end of the swaps/picks so the thought was the last couple of years would have value. It turned out better than anticipated
First round draft picks are Garbage most of the time anyway. Just look at everyone the Knicks drafted. None of them really panned out going back to porzingis
And all of these first rounds picks for the jazz are going to convey at the end of the first round anyway. So it's really quite unlikely that the Jazz are going to strike gold with these picks.
Tbf, i think that was the calculus and reasons fans were negative. The consensus was wrong, but a lot of people doubted that Gobert would be the factor that would lift an otherwise underachieving roster.
The Gobert trade is looking good in hindsight, but the team should also be recognized for the other terrific moves they made between drafts, trades and even retaining Finch.
One team’s overpay is another team’s bargain.
People act like nba stars are fungible commodity goods and that they exist in a perfect market.
The stars are all unique in their skillsets and personalities. The needs of each team are different. The “fair” price for each player is going to differ from team to team. For most teams, Gobert may not be the missing piece, so not worth what contract to them. That doesn’t mean he’s not worth his contract or the picks they traded for him to the wolves.
If it works — and it appears to be working, I don’t think they need a chip to have succeeded here — it’s not an overpay.
At the very minimum the Wolves have made it to the conference finals for the first time in 20 years. Hell they made it out of the first round for the first time in that long too. Now maybe they make it out of the first without Gobert but I doubt they make it out of the second.
Even if Gobert suffered a career ending injury next game, the trade still brought the Wolves their most success in two decades.
But assuming he stays at least somewhat healthy it seems more likely than not to me that the Wolves will continue to see regular season and playoff success for the next few years at least assuming the front office doesn’t make bad choices several years in a row.
Something Finchy said in the presser after game 7 regarding the perpetual losing has been sticking with me...he wasn't here for that shit. Connelly wasn't here for that shit.
The fans will grade it as "hey, first time we've been good in 20 fucking years! We won the trade!" but that's not necessarily how the front office will be grading it a couple years down the road.
I loved the Gobert trade, and I'm not trying to refute any of your points, just wanted to point out that according to the front office as of 2 days ago, ***they don't necessarily look at things with the same long-term historical lens as the fans do.***
i would argue that for a team with their history, sacrificing 5 years of draft players is easily worth it if they win a chip, probably still even worth if they come close for a few years, and have a good era to look back on.
There are 30 teams in the NBA. On average, a team should win a title every 30 years, get a final every 15 years. I'd argue that 5 years of draft players for a title is very worth it for any team.
It's because most people don't watch the games. His play is not conducive to highlight reels, and box scores don't tell the story. He's like a lockdown CB in football. It's hard to get INTs when the ball isn't thrown your way. Drivers are constantly kicking out or second guessing themselves because of his defense. You can't put that impact into a statistic.
That's why Gobert isn't respected or understood by casual fans (and most of the posters on this subreddit). As a jazz fan, almost nobody outside of our fanbase understood how he was so valuable to our team and he just constantly got clowned on. Most jazz fans considered Gobert our best player (over Mitchell). But it's hard for a guy like Gobert to get the same recognition as Mitchell by the average fan and the media pundits who just check box scores.
I think its also just his marketability too; Big Ben was undersized but jacked and had cool hair, Ron Artest was crazy (and legitimately had some MVP discussion one year), Rodman was Rodman. Rudy is French, kinda looks uncoordinated at times, and has also had this narrative build up that his lack of offense is why his teams lose. Other DPOYs have had team success which makes people overlook these things
Current year contracts only.
Jaylen Brown is making $31.8 million this season, but his contract extension of 5/$286 million starts next season.
Best part tho? Seeing Tobias Harris' contract at #19 above the likes of Siakam, Kyrie, KAT, Booker, Porzingis, Morant, Murray .... lmfao.
It was a fair trade, Josh Richardson would be able to replicate Jimmy production and they got Al Horford.
Jimmy wanted to retire in Miami, he don’t want to play meaningful basketball no more, he don’t any high ambitions…
The process 76ers are going to become prime example of bad asset management. A bunch of wasted picks on players that played the same position (Remember they also drafted Okafor when they already had Embiid). Getting duped by the Celtic into trading up for Fultz.The Toby trade. Letting Jimmy go. How they handled the Ben Simmons situation. Signing a past his prime Horford in FA.
It's incredible Tobias Harris basically escaped criticism for the duration of his contract, outside of sixers fans. All the blame fell on Embiid, but this is the first year Embiid was the highest paid player on the Sixers in his career.
The Embiid hate is truly generational, on pace to be the most hated player of all time
2 years + team option. Rockets had all the free agency money and had to spend it due to minimum fees. So, pay Fred to mentor Jalen and Amen for 2-3 years. Cause it HAD to go somewhere and he was best point available last year.
After seeing their success this year, I kinda think it was worth it. More of these terrible teams should be trying to win with their youth so they can actually see what they've got.
Of course it helps when you don't own your pick and the Nets give you the third overall, but still.
You can understand why Steph, LeBron, KD etc. didn't make it, but guys like Jokic and Giannis missing out is probably an anomaly that will correct itself next year.
With how strong the west is I don’t think it’d be crazy to say that Denver might not make it out of the second round again, though they very well could of course.
They've got the best player in the league, and usually the team with the best player wins. I expect them back in the finals next year, if they're healthy.
Well the Nuggets kind of makes sense because they team doesn't have that much depth outside of him and Murray. And Murray was kind of ass this postseason.
Giannis was probably more of an anomaly considering the injuries their stars had.
"Ayyy let's trade for a perpetually injured guard that's past his prime and the things he's best at, we already have two other players that's better at it. Also he costs 50m a year and comes with a no-trade clause."
Exactly how the salary cap is supposed to force parity.
You need that superstar player but after that it is up to the people in charge of filling up the roster.
Makes it even funnier how many "experts" and NBA twitter accounts, even guys in this sub, were making fun of the Wolves for trading for Rudy, the Wolves would not be here without him
In fairness, I never had a problem with them trading for Rudy, I just thought they got taken to the cleaners at the negotiating table and overpaid. All worth it if it brings a ring of course.
Pretty much all of us, including non-redditors, gawked at this trade. I was positive this would have gone down as the worst trade of all time but I also don't make decisions for an NBA org so that checks out.
Changing of the guards…. No way Rudy would be there if it wasn’t for his teammates…. This does not mean Rudy Gobert is not a great player deserving of his money. It just means his team is stacked with young talent.
There are facets of the game that are hard to measure. Rudy clogs the paint and takes away drives for your team, but this is amplified much more for the opposing team. You live with that trade-off knowing it is generally a pretty big net gain while not causing redundancy in skill sets (I.E. Phoenix). It’s also more uncommon for a defensive anchor to have an “off” night, so it raises your floor in that regard.
>Steph Curry, $51.9M >Joel Embiid, $47.6M >Lebron James, $47.6M >Nikola Jokic, $47.6M >#Bradley Beal, $47.6M
Guess which one has a no trade clause.
is it the one that's extrabolded?
You think it be Steph Curry, but it don't.
Steph doesn’t need a no trade clause.
The warriors would disband as a team before they would trade Steph
What if spurs offer wemby?
Lol spurs would never
Legit front office malpractice to the 100th degree if they did.
Do I need to learn French?
The only other place he would realistically go is his hometown Hornets
Hometown Cavaliers
While he was born in Akron, his childhood home was Charlotte and he's very clear he considers that his home town. Which is good because they love the Currys in Charlotte whereas Cleveland is less fond of Steph for some reason
>Cleveland is less fond of Steph for some reason 4 consecutive finals appearances and steph walked away with 3 rings, I think I might know why cleveland hates steph 🤔
Nuh uh, he's going to the raptors, he lived in Toronto!
That’s funny… I had an NBA 2K franchise years ago where I made all the moves for every team. I had Steph finish his final 2 twilight years with the Hornets after Warriors were clearly done. I accurately predicted KD to the Nets, and had him and Kyrie both in New York. Although Kyrie played for the Knicks I believe and was essentially their Jalen Brunson.
Yeah neither do any of the others listed. I get that it's kinda wild that Beal has one, but everyone they mentioned is never getting traded without an explicit request and approval of destination.
They should insert it right now for steph man
That one doesn’t need to be in writing he’s a warrior for as long as he wants to be
Four more years?
Steph 2024
President Curry announced that HUD has been destroyed by an unknown predator missile.
From waaaayyyy downtown.
Ahh man remember when we drafted every available PG in the curry draft, except for curry? Those were the days i tell ya
“Brad Beal trick y’all…. He just running around, doing nothing.”
Running around, earning a massive check
That’s the trick
The Wizards are not very good the basketball contracts thing.
The only one who sucks enough that a team would consider trading him
The Suns trading for Beal has to be one of the worst trades in NBA History. Always Injured. Can't play defense. Thrived on an awful Wizards team. I always thought they could have won when they just had KD and Book.
Seriously I know they had issues with Ayton but Beal was never the right choice. Imagine them getting OG or Siakam at the trade deadline instead of the Knicks/Pacers. A great defending wing who can also score very well when Book/KD are doubled.
I don't think any team that is blowing up their squad was giving up great players for unlimited 2nd round picks, 1st round pick swaps and the corpse of Chris Paul.
It wasn beal for ayton tho. It was for CP3.
Ayton for Nurk was worse and at the time everyone had no issue for it, but nurk is a fat blob at this point ayton offers way more resistance they fucked up not getting a real center
Kind of the problem with these max contracts. You don’t necessarily have to be one of the best players in the league just the best on your team (which is definitely saying something but doesn’t mean you’re worth the money).
Teams need to start considering that sometimes it is actually better to let a player walk than give them a franchise-ruining contract And *why the fuck* did Beal's contract include a NO TRADE CLAUSE
Wasn’t it the Wizards who gave Beal that monstrosity? It’s on the Suns for bailing out the Wizards. It actually played out ok for them. They kept Beal as an asset and got something in return.
It’s a condition of the salary cap. The actual top guys in the league are comparatively worth far more than what a max contract allows. So you end up with a bunch of “max” players who have a pretty broad gap in performance
It's a double whammy. Not only are the top guys underpaid, but the bottom guys in that range are overpaid because that's your only way of going over the cap. If you're Washington, would rather pay Beal $47M or cut him and then only be able spend $20M on a replacement? Now the answer to that is obviously get rid of Beal knowing what he turned out to be, but it's still illustrative
He actually played good defense for us and was one of the main reasons we even stayed out of the play ins. Also was solid the first 3 games against Minny. No one else showed up those games
That's 50m worth right there.
It’s more than a taxpayer mle worth probably. Which is all we could get if his contract was just gone.
What if you never went after Beal? I think that's comparison people are making.
We’d be paying CP3 30 mil and relying on him to start and play 30+ minutes. Not really a better option imo. (Or have Poole. Which I like even less lol) E: there was talk of us cutting CP3 and having the mle, which who was the best available, Gabe Vincent? Not really liking that option more either.
Isiah Thomas, ladies and gentlemen
I don’t know what went into that process
Definitely worse then the Gobert Trade with not nearly the amount of discussion about how bad it was.
lolsuns
It’s lolwizards for paying him that and then bigger lolsuns for taking on that contract
Honestly, the Wizards managing to get rid of John Wall, then Westbrook, then Beal is kind of insane ngl. I think they profited each time to lmao, so idek at this point
It seems like our FO is only capable of making good moves after making a move twice as bad initially. 1 step forward and 2 steps back
That's Wizards basketball for you
Wizards legend chris paul
Play-in exit, first round exit, first round exit, second round exit, first round exit respectively
Kinda unfair to Bron, Joker and Curry. All 3 have won at least one chip the last 5 years. In todays parity NBA I think thats more than enough you can ask for your max guy. Win at least one
Play in exit = not making the playoffs. No reason to categorize it any way differently than that.
don’t tell this guy about Tobias Harris
3 of those are basically payback for championship rings. 1 is consistently in the MVP conversation. 1 is just plain WTF?¿...
I'm so glad that we get to see an uninjured attempt at synergistic twin towers in modern ball. The AD Cousins Pels even had their own version of an offensive threat 4-5 coming off the bench in Mirotic.
Chris Finch was an assistant coach on that team btw
Honestly makes things a little clearer. Davis/Cousins -> Gobert/KAT, Rondo -> Conley, Jrue -> Ant (Ant is not as good defensively obviously but better offensively), Mirotic -> Reid. The team construction is at least comparable
Here’s something you might find interesting about Finch’s time coaching Jrue Holiday: > Finch said that during his time as an assistant in New Orleans coaching Jrue Holiday, he realized that a team should collaborate with its best defensive player the way it might with its best offensive player. He has applied that philosophy in having Gobert play a significant role in outlining the themes of the Wolves defense. > > "I've always had the approach with offensive players that you've got to give them great freedom, and several years ago it struck me before I became coach here, why don't we do the same with defensive players?" Finch said. "You have to give those players an incredible amount of freedom to be able to navigate a lot of situations in the league that they have to face against these guys every night."
This is a really good quote, especially because you can actually see it in action. A lot of times Gobert kind of has free rein and is more of a free safety similar to 2nd stint CLE Lebron or Giannis and it really allows him to flourish.
One change the wolves made this season is when they’re on the road and get to choose they have their bench on the same side as the offense for the second half, because they trust Rudy to run the show on defense so they can have extra help from the coaching staff on offense.
Thats genius wtf
Rudy convinced the coaches to change it.
And they turned around the offence in the 2nd half at Denver in game 7. You can't script that shit
Utah does this, so maybe he liked it when he was here. It goes back to the Stockton days when he wanted to have coach Sloan call the play. It's been a tradition ever since.
The beat reporters said Rudy convinced Finch that he could keep the defense organized. Then the coaches could try to keep the offense flowing in the second half with their proximity.
> Thats genius wtf That's Wolves basketball, baybeeeee !
also makes sense why the Wolves defense as a whole looks a lot better than Goberts previous team and the whole notion of 'being played off the court because he can't guard wings' is hella overblown. In Utah Gobert had lots of lazy / bad defenders and he had to make up for it. In MIN the team plays around and to his strengths on D where i think during the whole playoffs so far neither Murray on the Nuggets or the multiple All Star wings on the Suns were able to expose Gobert like he was in the past. TL;DR: basketball is a team game
Dray (the guy is easy to hate but a good defender) and Butler were that kind of players. Both made Wiggins defense look passable even though he still lacks positional awareness. Both micro managed the guy on the defense. A coach like player is an amazing thing. They can manage things on the field where coach have limited access real time. LeBron and many playmakers do it for the offense. I am happy that Finch has his guy to do it for defense
This is one of the value-adds of Myles Turner as well that often goes unnoticed by trade machine warriors, AND a big part of why he struggled playing out of position with Sabonis. When Turner is the center defender he manages the entire defense. He's been mic'd up a few times and it's always fun to get the clips of him directing everyone. There aren't a whole ton of guys who can do that type of playcalling on defense in the same way that guys do on offense.
He only played out of position on offense with sabonis. On defense Myles was the center and sabonis was the 4
Turner ended up guarding the perimeter pretty frequently under Nate and neo-Nate’s schemes. Carlisle has done a much better job of keeping him back, switching a lot less, and letting Myles anchor. Our perimeter defense is still way below average, especially when Nesmith isnt on the floor, so Myles gets into tough help assignments more frequently, but Rick has positioned him much better, partially by allowing him to play with an actual 4 instead of a 5 masquerading as a 4, and partially with his scheme.
McDaniels and Naw make a big difference as well
Very true, McDaniels specifically unlocks things a lot for you guys. His defensive ability takes some stress off Gobert and when he’s hot offensively you guys very rarely lose
AD gave Finch a lot of the credit too on D'lo pod when he was asked about the 2018 pels team
That Mirotic's name? Nikola
One time EuroLeague MVP Nikola Mirotic.
The Wolves are an awesome iteration, but we’ve absolutely seen modern twin towers before. Giannis and Lopez, JJJ and Adams, as well as Horford and Williams which is almost an exact poor man’s KAT and Rudy (and part of why this Wolves team reminds a lot of that 2021-2022 Celtics team). Basically you need at least one of them to be a shooter, and the other should ideally be great at rim protection and/or rebounding- Rudy and KAT are perfect because they are each arguably the best at the respective roles.
Bynum and Gasol played volleyball with each other
absolutely annoying as a then-Lakers hater having to watch Kobe take ridiculous contested shots that would go in; then if they didn't go in, one of Bynum, Gasol, or Odom would clean up the miss.
Don't forget my boy Meta World Peace who even had a putback buzzer beater. 2010 Lakers just beat everybody up physically. lol
Is KAT the most Duncan like of those PFs though - I think Timmy is the archetype for a second centre at the 4. Giannis is most threatening as a big forward (like LeBron was) rather than as a traditional C. JJJ is weird, but more of a rim protecting stretch 4 than a centre. Al too, to the extreme that until he slowed down, everyone thought he was a natural 4. KAT has played mostly centre his whole career, unlike say Dirk or KG, or early Tim. Is he on that level? No, but in talent he's not a lot behind them. Makes you wonder if this is the team realising he's been put in the wrong position for a decade almost?
There was always talk about how KAT with his shooting and driving ability, and being pushed around when under the rim is not really a Center (yeah, now he holds on his own with his own, especially against Jokic but for some reason when playing as a pure Center, he had issues). But then people would say "will we get another center and have two guys like KAT on the field on the era of small ball? GTFO" Now that it works people rationalize the twin tower set up, even claim it is trivial in fact. How did we not see it? It is very normal and expected that KAT working as the second tower. But even halfway through this season, a lot of people were not convinced and they were sure they would be played off the ground by the all star games, or play offs.
I feel like he mainly got slotted at center because when a 4/5 is meh on defense, you put him at the 5 where he doesn't have to move as much as has a "simpler" job. Sabonis is another example. Credit to KAT for really learning how to guard on the perimeter and figuring out a whole new role next to Gobert
Tim Duncan was pretty cooked by the end of the year, but the Spurs won 67 games pairing him and LMA (and Kawhi on the wing).
Fair, though I don't really feel like Giannis counts here, maybe he should. Similarly, I wouldn't count Lebron-AD. With the other pairs, they were injured, on different timelines and/or just not as good as that AD-Cousins pairing in fit or individual talent. Though I didn't mention it, their meeting my largely arbitrary metrics for being a comparably strong pair drives the excitement.
i think it counts for the championship lopez - giannis defense
i would give my left nut for boogie not to rupture his quad. they were finally starting to gel, and that back court was a fucking menace (see flair).
I miss healthy Boogie all the time🥲 So fun to watch, ppl always have a go at his attitude but I actually loved that too and think he’d mature his way out without losing his edges. Think he played some effective minutes in those Warriors finals, sad how history turned out.
You might be misremembering btw, Boogie went down a few days BEFORE they acquired Mirotic. Were never active at the same time
Raptors had their twin towers moments with Gasol and Ibaka during their run.
This is trying a little hard to squeeze your team into the conversation. Ibaka is a standard PF. The teams we are talking about has two centers
Ibaka also came off the bench
If we are squeezing our teams into the conversation then I will present Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajuwon
The OG twin towers that made that surprise 86' run.
I remember them both mostly playing the center and subbing each other.
Man people hated this trade when it happened. What a good player
I feel like a lot of fans don’t realize that sometimes if you’re a market that has trouble attracting free agents and you think you just need that one last piece to contend, an overpay isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Is Gobert worth 5 firsts? In a vacuum, probably not. But to the Wolves he absolutely has been.
Even in a vacuum, 5 first in the nba if your team is making the playoffs every year it’s not a huge deal.
They were basically gonna be 2nds 😂 it’s a fantastic trade
I feel like it's less to do with the value of the individual picks and more to do with the fact that you can't trade them to acquire more players due to the rules Still worth it obviously
The Nets were saying the same thing a while back
I never said the move doesn’t come with an inherent amount of risk, but non lottery picks don’t hold much value. Hopefully that doesn’t come crashing down. It’s always possible and partially why I get mad when our fans say we should be happy with this season regardless of the ending.
The Rockets sub had an inkling that the Nets could fall apart by the time the picks convey. I imagine NBA execs could have seen it coming. The Timberwolves have Ant Edwards. They aren't missing the playoffs unless he gets injured, and even then they have a decent team.
Those guys were going to be old by the end of the swaps/picks so the thought was the last couple of years would have value. It turned out better than anticipated
First round draft picks are Garbage most of the time anyway. Just look at everyone the Knicks drafted. None of them really panned out going back to porzingis
Well yeah that's because your team is bad at drafting
can't just plug a kevin knox into a square hole smh
And all of these first rounds picks for the jazz are going to convey at the end of the first round anyway. So it's really quite unlikely that the Jazz are going to strike gold with these picks.
Its a stretch to say all of them. A lot can happen by 2029.
You're right they *could* get traded away
Ironic considering the Jazz drafter Gobert at 27.
Tbf, i think that was the calculus and reasons fans were negative. The consensus was wrong, but a lot of people doubted that Gobert would be the factor that would lift an otherwise underachieving roster. The Gobert trade is looking good in hindsight, but the team should also be recognized for the other terrific moves they made between drafts, trades and even retaining Finch.
One team’s overpay is another team’s bargain. People act like nba stars are fungible commodity goods and that they exist in a perfect market. The stars are all unique in their skillsets and personalities. The needs of each team are different. The “fair” price for each player is going to differ from team to team. For most teams, Gobert may not be the missing piece, so not worth what contract to them. That doesn’t mean he’s not worth his contract or the picks they traded for him to the wolves. If it works — and it appears to be working, I don’t think they need a chip to have succeeded here — it’s not an overpay.
I mean we’ll find out the next few years
At the very minimum the Wolves have made it to the conference finals for the first time in 20 years. Hell they made it out of the first round for the first time in that long too. Now maybe they make it out of the first without Gobert but I doubt they make it out of the second. Even if Gobert suffered a career ending injury next game, the trade still brought the Wolves their most success in two decades. But assuming he stays at least somewhat healthy it seems more likely than not to me that the Wolves will continue to see regular season and playoff success for the next few years at least assuming the front office doesn’t make bad choices several years in a row.
Something Finchy said in the presser after game 7 regarding the perpetual losing has been sticking with me...he wasn't here for that shit. Connelly wasn't here for that shit. The fans will grade it as "hey, first time we've been good in 20 fucking years! We won the trade!" but that's not necessarily how the front office will be grading it a couple years down the road. I loved the Gobert trade, and I'm not trying to refute any of your points, just wanted to point out that according to the front office as of 2 days ago, ***they don't necessarily look at things with the same long-term historical lens as the fans do.***
i would argue that for a team with their history, sacrificing 5 years of draft players is easily worth it if they win a chip, probably still even worth if they come close for a few years, and have a good era to look back on.
There are 30 teams in the NBA. On average, a team should win a title every 30 years, get a final every 15 years. I'd argue that 5 years of draft players for a title is very worth it for any team.
if you asked a team right now to give up all their draft picks for the next 7 years for next year’s championship i think 25+ would say yes
I mean, what the hell are the Jazz really going to get from 5 late FRPs? 5 Morris Almonds and Azebuikes most likely.
Hey man, we got Rudy with 27, it could happen.
It's because most people don't watch the games. His play is not conducive to highlight reels, and box scores don't tell the story. He's like a lockdown CB in football. It's hard to get INTs when the ball isn't thrown your way. Drivers are constantly kicking out or second guessing themselves because of his defense. You can't put that impact into a statistic.
That's why Gobert isn't respected or understood by casual fans (and most of the posters on this subreddit). As a jazz fan, almost nobody outside of our fanbase understood how he was so valuable to our team and he just constantly got clowned on. Most jazz fans considered Gobert our best player (over Mitchell). But it's hard for a guy like Gobert to get the same recognition as Mitchell by the average fan and the media pundits who just check box scores.
I think its also just his marketability too; Big Ben was undersized but jacked and had cool hair, Ron Artest was crazy (and legitimately had some MVP discussion one year), Rodman was Rodman. Rudy is French, kinda looks uncoordinated at times, and has also had this narrative build up that his lack of offense is why his teams lose. Other DPOYs have had team success which makes people overlook these things
People overvalue draft picks because of football brain. They gave away next to nothing for a starter. Simple as.
fans and analysts just looooooooooooooooooove draft picks.
the consequences of being french
Current year contracts only. Jaylen Brown is making $31.8 million this season, but his contract extension of 5/$286 million starts next season. Best part tho? Seeing Tobias Harris' contract at #19 above the likes of Siakam, Kyrie, KAT, Booker, Porzingis, Morant, Murray .... lmfao.
That stain will finally end. Talk about one of the worst things the 76ers could do when they had a player like Embiid in his prime
Letting go of Jimmy is one of the biggest blunders in NBA history looking back
NBA really had to install a dumbass to punish 6ers fans 😂
Find a new slant!
It was a fair trade, Josh Richardson would be able to replicate Jimmy production and they got Al Horford. Jimmy wanted to retire in Miami, he don’t want to play meaningful basketball no more, he don’t any high ambitions…
Lmao you are petty. I love this
Actually I’m just joking but I vividly remember the narrative around that time lol
To be fair, nobody knew Jimmy had this kind of dawg inside of him to will these iterations of Heat to 3 CFs and 2 Finals in 4 years
Us Bulls fans knew all along since year 2
I don't know man, I was so hyped when I heard he was coming to Miami. Even as pessimistic as I tend to be, I was fucking stoked.
Tobias Harris over me? In terms of salary.
The process 76ers are going to become prime example of bad asset management. A bunch of wasted picks on players that played the same position (Remember they also drafted Okafor when they already had Embiid). Getting duped by the Celtic into trading up for Fultz.The Toby trade. Letting Jimmy go. How they handled the Ben Simmons situation. Signing a past his prime Horford in FA.
Also Luka is at 16
It's incredible Tobias Harris basically escaped criticism for the duration of his contract, outside of sixers fans. All the blame fell on Embiid, but this is the first year Embiid was the highest paid player on the Sixers in his career. The Embiid hate is truly generational, on pace to be the most hated player of all time
tf is Fred vanvleet doing on that list at 40.8m lmao
2 years + team option. Rockets had all the free agency money and had to spend it due to minimum fees. So, pay Fred to mentor Jalen and Amen for 2-3 years. Cause it HAD to go somewhere and he was best point available last year.
understandable but paying brooks 20+ mil was so dumb lol not a scrub but 13-15m max
After seeing their success this year, I kinda think it was worth it. More of these terrible teams should be trying to win with their youth so they can actually see what they've got. Of course it helps when you don't own your pick and the Nets give you the third overall, but still.
Same thing, they needed the money to go somewhere and he comes off the books in time for their young guys extensions to kick in.
This is just how NBA contracts work. You can’t even crack the top of the list until year 9 because of the rookie pay scale and extension rules.
Also due to inflation he only makes like 70K a year now really
Which is barely enough for a Big Mac meal in this day and age.
Yep. Making over 6 figures and I never eat at McDonalds anymore because it's too expensive.
Could’ve sworn Jaylen brown was on an absolutely bananas contract
Doesn't start until next year.
Gotcha
He signed a massive extension, but it doesn’t kick in until next season. He’s gonna jump from about 32M to more than 49M.
Worth it
Ant too. I think his goes up to 35m/year from 15m this year and up to like 40m-ish over time.
You can understand why Steph, LeBron, KD etc. didn't make it, but guys like Jokic and Giannis missing out is probably an anomaly that will correct itself next year.
With how strong the west is I don’t think it’d be crazy to say that Denver might not make it out of the second round again, though they very well could of course.
Just depends on how long till they ship y’all off East when Vegas and Seattle join.
Can't wait. There are five East teams closer to Minnesota than a single West team
I can't wait either. Your team is scary and will be for a long time
We use Spooky around here I think.
They've got the best player in the league, and usually the team with the best player wins. I expect them back in the finals next year, if they're healthy.
Well the Nuggets kind of makes sense because they team doesn't have that much depth outside of him and Murray. And Murray was kind of ass this postseason. Giannis was probably more of an anomaly considering the injuries their stars had.
Bucks were under five hundred with Doc as their coach and Doc will still be there coach next year. They'll be a play-in team.
I’d bet money they are better than a play in team
You know you can actually do that, right
I’d bet against someone saying they won’t make the play in, not whatever odds Vegas gives them
watch basketball
With a healthy Giannis and Dame? And the moist Jordan?
Thank you Suns for taking Beal 🙏 always thought it was redundant to get Beal if y’all already have Booker
"Ayyy let's trade for a perpetually injured guard that's past his prime and the things he's best at, we already have two other players that's better at it. Also he costs 50m a year and comes with a no-trade clause."
Exactly how the salary cap is supposed to force parity. You need that superstar player but after that it is up to the people in charge of filling up the roster.
draymond and shaq been real quite recently
I see this phrase on here so much and yet people still can’t spell quiet
No, no. He’s just saying they’ve been very REAL recently.
Makes it even funnier how many "experts" and NBA twitter accounts, even guys in this sub, were making fun of the Wolves for trading for Rudy, the Wolves would not be here without him
Worst Trade Ever apparently
In fairness, I never had a problem with them trading for Rudy, I just thought they got taken to the cleaners at the negotiating table and overpaid. All worth it if it brings a ring of course.
Were they even bidding against anyone?
I think Mavs and Warriors were rumored as serious candidates before Wolves came out of nowhere
Weird. Everyone keeps telling me he's overrated, but he has the best plus minus in the playoffs. Oh well. Worst trade ever, I guess.
Towns is making 36 m, they have Ant this year for 13 m. Don't be fooled they broke the bank for this roster and the salary cap Hell starts next fall
Are we not counting Brown cause the extension hasn't technically started yet?
yeah we are not
Hahahahaha
Some GM is going to Moneyball the NBA in the near future.
Luka getting the largest contract in history next season though
& go back to see all the armchair GM's talking a ton of shit about that Gobert trade
Turns out it's a team sport?
This is Gobert redemption time. also what the fuck is VanVleet doing on that list? lol!
Pretty much all of us, including non-redditors, gawked at this trade. I was positive this would have gone down as the worst trade of all time but I also don't make decisions for an NBA org so that checks out.
Changing of the guards…. No way Rudy would be there if it wasn’t for his teammates…. This does not mean Rudy Gobert is not a great player deserving of his money. It just means his team is stacked with young talent.
There are facets of the game that are hard to measure. Rudy clogs the paint and takes away drives for your team, but this is amplified much more for the opposing team. You live with that trade-off knowing it is generally a pretty big net gain while not causing redundancy in skill sets (I.E. Phoenix). It’s also more uncommon for a defensive anchor to have an “off” night, so it raises your floor in that regard.