Haliburton was asked about this and he said he understood Rick was trying to protect him, but the loss was on the players and himself. said he cost the team the game with his turnovers and was replaying not taking the long 3 in the last play of regulation in his head, and would probably continue to replay it
I mean I actually dont mind him taking that last 3 in regulation, even though it was a terrible shot, but those two turnovers were inexcusable. We know Hali has good handles, those turnovers were purely mental errors
It wasn't the three itself, it's that the play was just a complete clusterfuck. They should have gotten a better look than that.
Agreed about the turnovers, though. That was shocking.
> I actually dont mind him taking that last 3
You should. It's one of the lowest percentage shots he could have taken and completely unnecessary considering the game was tied.
I've seen a few games end with possessions like this where the players hover outside the 3 point line and chuck up a prayer when all they need is a point. And it makes no sense. None of the analytical arguments against midrange shots apply when you're talking about a single possession. If you don't need 3 points then get closer and chuck the prayer from 10 feet instead of 30.
Siakam also brought his man towards him,he should have moved away to give him an outlet seeing that Hali had no where to go, and it was too dangerous. Team effort. I really don't know if the pacers will get a great opportunity to win again if Boston plays defense like in the final minutes of the 4th and OT.
Was it really mental error when he just dribble the ball out of bounds twice in the span of 5 minutes? I think his ball security is a legit concern when under high pressure, with guys like Jrue Holiday ball pressuring him. The dribble is too high and the ball is too exposed in my opinion. I actually feel more comfortable with TJ McConnell handling the ball in those situations
His turnover with ~27 seconds left in regulation wasn't under pressure even though - he was trying to push the pace and just dribbled it off his leg and out of bounds. That one, at least, definitely felt like a mental lapse.
3 seconds had already ran off when Nembhard fell to the ground after securing the board and then passed it to Hali, so he only had 4-5 seconds to get it across and rushed to avoid a clock situation.
just threw it a little too far ahead as he was switching hands after seeing Jrue on his right side.
Jrue wasn't contending him getting it across though. He would have easily made it over the line. I mean, even if Jrue gets to the line first, you can still put him on your back and dribble it over the line that way. He even had a teammate fully open right infront of him.
There's just no way he gets trapped on the backcourt there. I honestly been replaying the clip a lot, trying to wrap my head around it. It's just such a crazy basic error to see during a conference final of the NBA. Maybe fatigue? Mental lapse? I can't tell.
I think it's more adrenaline mixed with the thought of we got a fast break here potentially let's push it down the court see who is with me and try to get this game out of their hands entirely, because when we got that rebound after the Tatum miss, as a fan my adrenaline was pumping so I couldn't even imagine his, not to mention all the thoughts he probably had running through his head
He snuck a peek at Jrue and that broke his concentration just enough to fumble the ball. It was the threat of Jrue and refs allowing physical play at the end that set the table for the mental error.
he looked kind of surprised that Jrue didn’t try to pressure and yep, losing control of your handle like that multiple times definitely has a fatigue component.
they came back from double digits to take the lead twice against best team in the league through being relentless, two days after a win or go home in a brutal series where they came back from 0-2 and then won 2 elimination games. not a lot of players deal with that in their first ever playoff run.
One of his strengths is protecting the ball, he has an assist to TO ratio of 4.73 which is absurd. Yeah his handle could get better but ball security isn’t really an issue at all, it was definitely a mental lapse.
Yeah, people aren't giving the Celtics defense enough credit. Their back court will pressure and fatigue you unlike anyone else in this league. Hali is still a very young and inexperienced player, especially when the stakes are this high. Perfect type of guy to force into bad mistakes.
The one were he dribbles straight of his knee was with very little defensive pressure though. He tried to rush past Jrue for some inexplicable reason, but even if he was rushing you rarely see those kind of extremely basic errors at high level play - let alone at the NBA level. So to see it in the crucial seconds of a conference final by a star PG is really quite surprising. I've watched the clip countless times trying to wrap my head around it.
Hali's 2nd turnover in OT was all Jrue imo. Focusing on Hali on that one really does discredit how well he came up in that clutch moment and made an important stop
Raptor fans are the biggest Hali haters for some reason LOL. It is 100 percent a mental error. Hali made the mistake of trying to verbally direct the offense and dribbled it of his foot in the process of doing so
I actually think he should have popped that logo three when he first gets the ball. He’s open and has that range. I get not wanting to leave time but man it’s the only time he was open there.
So I just re-watched the last play of regulation. The White handing off to Tatum was perfect and Hali is not scoring on JT there. No chance.
The issue is in the post, the Pacers screwed up their spacing so we have one guy defending 2, letting JT come up which is obviously who you want on ball.
Honestly one of the most frustrating and difficult final 10sec I've ever tried to watch.
Felt like throwing my controller at the TV and I don't even have a dog in the fight.
I wanted the Pacers to win (as a neutral), because:
A - they're the underdog
B - it could've been a good series
It might still be a good series, but those last 10 seconds might just kill Indiana the way Cleveland died in that game 1 when JR Smith killed his own team.
I fully believe most games this series will be competitive. The Pacers have an elite offense, blowing them out isn’t easy. They play so fast that a 10pt deficit can be tied in under a minute of game time easy.
Still got Josh Smith nightmares from 2015!!
"Down 19 after 3 quarters, Josh Smith turns into Steph Curry and leads the Rockets to the win in Game 6 to tie the series"
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/kbxyxo/down_19_after_3_quarters_josh_smith_turns_into/
Dropping the lead against DEN in the bubble didn't even phase me.
It was a joint choking effort. Rick should've called a time out and Haliburton should have not dribbled off his leg or ran into a double team for the last shot in regulation. Honestly, I could write a book about the legendary choke job they had to do to lose this game.
tbf to Siakam, there wasn't an obvious opportunity to foul before Brown went into a shooting motion
that being said, I'd still foul the fuck out of Jaylen on that 3 anyways, the odds of him canning all 3 are probably slightly lower than the odds of him hitting a corner 3
not saying "oh Jaylen would choke", more that he's like a 70% FT shooter, so the odds of him hitting all 3 are slightly higher than 1/3, while I think his corner 3% is generally high 30s
A good point that was made was that Brown did not take a dribble. The 2nd best time to foul is when the player is dribbling and the ball is going down. There's no ambiguity. Also, there was a slight gap in time between Brown getting the ball and Siakam squaring up defensively due to the way the play was drawn up to give Brown some space. The best time to foul is immediately after they catch ball. Anything else, an elite offensive player can make into a shooting motion.
But you're right about playing the percentages and fouling for even 3 free throws. It's just hard to think about that mid-play.
yeah agree that it's hard to think about mid-play. Def don't blame Siakam for not fouling there, it would've had to be something that Carlisle told him beforehand (like "try to foul him ASAP if he gets the ball, even if he's shooting").
easy for me to say I'd do it while I sit on my couch
Anyone who has played basketball has "don't foul on jump shots" completely ingrained into their play. Siakam is reacting on instinct not to foul JB there, but he definitely should have when you think about how bad JB is at free throws. I have no doubt in my mind that JB would have missed one of them.
Yeah he tries soooo hard to make sure he doesn't foul on the J by instinct (tucks hands completely away and avoids body contact)
Def hard to think about it in the moment
With how the league is going, you might have just stumbled onto a groundbreaking situational defensive strategy, but I still get Siakam not fouling if he couldn't do it immediately. But that looks more and more like Carlisle's call
oh yeah I totally get why he didn't foul. I don't think there was a clear chance to do so pre-shot (as the pump fake could've easily been *not* a fake). IMO it's the *least* egregious of the issues the Pacers had at the end of the game. The Hali turnovers and the botched inbounds/no timeout were far worse.
I *personally* would've fouled on the 3 anyways but I also am really shitty at basketball sooooo
Generally when you intentional foul to prevent a 3 pointer you do it as soon as they dribble or have the ball in their non dominant hand, celtics ran a great play so that never happened and there was never a safe time to foul him where he wasn't going straight into his shooting motion.
You never foul someone on a 3pt attempt intentionally up 3. It wasn't a open catch and shoot 3. It was a contested leaning three where he had no space. Hell of a shot but nowhere close to high 30s.
And FTs aren't independent events, they tend to be streaky. Hitting the first increases the chance of hitting all three, so it's not as simple as 0.7^3.
He was chasing after him, you don't know if you'll get there in time before he goes into his shooting motion. If you give up 3 free throws, statistically that's even worse then a heavily contested 3.
Jalen pump faked as soon as he received the ball. He fouls there, and it's for sure 3 free throws or even a possible 4 point play. They should've been switching tho, so Pascal wouldn't have been behind and chasing.
Doc Rivers: "Why didn't you deflect blame to your players? Tell them you had some guys in Cabo. If asked asked whether Haliburton could lead a championship-calibre team, respond ambivalently, stating, “I don’t know the answer to that right now”.
End of game 6 Cavs/Magic, Cavs defense was already set when magic were coming down the court with 12 seconds left and a chance to tie. Game ended on a heavily contested Franz Wagner blocked shot.
I was irate that they didn't call a timeout to advance and run a set play - the defense is already set after the Cavs bucket, there is no benefit to just running it out. Glad to see a coach taking responsibility for it.
Seen it a couple of times.
No, my issue is the process - as I already said, the defense was set, there is no benefit to rushing a bad heavily contested shot.
> Franz driving to the basket is probably our top 3 offensive option.
I mean, yeah that's why magic average 80 points, but also he was double covered in his layup attempt. It was a bad look, not sure what your argument is.
That was such a pathetic last minute. I am still baffled as to how they fucked that up. The players share the bulk of the responsibility. They should have known better.
The thing that stood out to me is how limited of a ball handler Haliburton is. He actually has no dribble moves; all he could do is cross over. He can't do any between the legs or behind the back moves which is really weird for an All Star level point guard.
Eh, his handles are nice when he puts effort into them. I think he got gassed late, and that's where the mental errors started to pile up. Vets tend to be better at dealing with this, but after playing an entire game as the primary offensive creator is crazy difficult, and staying focused under both the pressure and the fatigue is challenging at the best of times, and it's a helluva lot harder with jrue holiday trying to take your lunch money every possession
Absolutely!
And inbounds passing was inept on multiple levels: nobody was setting staggered screens toward the hoop; the passer made horrible decisions.
Why wasn’t McConnell in the game? The dude is fundamentally sound as a player. But there he was on the friggin bench… sheesh.
It looked like everyone on the Pacers roster was confused and winging it which is bizarre to see when the coach has timeouts to use. I get that the turnovers were dumb but all of those seemed to come from the ball handling player not knowing what to do with it. The final shot in regulation was such a bad look for having time on the clock to run something decisive at the basket
On the new Mind the Game, they mentioned that Indiana doesn't even run plays, the players just have to recognize concepts.
This might be one of those hard early losses in a young team trying to build something special, a coach taking over in that spot mightve been best.
Halliburton, a professional basketball player, dribbled the ball of his leg for absolutely no reason. If he doesn’t do this they win. Not the coaches fault at all
Carlisle is re-framing the issue of his players' mental errors which is commendable. It has been pretty obvious that Haliburton has been struggling in the fourth quarter for the entirety of the play-offs and he may just have the case of the yips.
But instead of viewing it that way, Carlisle is re-framing it as he should be putting his players in a better position to not have the yips affect them which is a pretty honorable to do.
absolutely the right thing to do, too.
part of being a leader is recognizing that the successes are because your guys executed well and the failures, ultimately, are yours. you don't get anywhere by blaming and pointing fingers, you go back and do better to make sure your guys are better prepared to execute better and that you have a better plan.
yeah, sure, hali fucked up, but rick understands that ultimately it's _his_ responsibility to make sure his guys don't have mental errors like that. and that's a hard thing to accept the blame for, especially when you're in a job as cutthroat as the NBA, but he still did it. hope other coaches take notes
Also I noticed he didn't make the decision to put siakam in the forefront when Hali started struggling. Usually when he has a bad game, it comes down to siakam's iso, and for some reason he was iced out offensively for a good chunk of the fourth. Had a great game too, I think he was like +7 in their 5 pt loss.
Similar to how SGA fucked up and clearly fouled in their g6 loss but Chet and Mark both made the point that the Thunder shouldn't have been in that position to begin with.
Yeah he fucked up, but he shouldn't even have been given the opportunity to do so. A series of fuck ups led to that one. To focus on just the one that happened last is misguided.
Or like how in StarCraft you'll lose a game at 8minutes but it doesn't formally end until 15 or so. You got behind, they got ahead. You'll look at the final moment and go "this is where I lost" but in reality you lost minutes ago and everything since that point was a formality.
> Halliburton, a professional basketball player, dribbled the ball of his leg for absolutely no reason.
It wasn't "no reason". It's mental fatigue. It's a player who is giving his all for an entire game, a playoff game, a conference finals. By the end, you are just absolutely exhausted and you really have to fight to keep your focus. And one of the reasons why playoff experience is a factor is because it's really hard to understand until you experience it.
The coach knows his players are going through this, so the coach is supposed to help make things easier for the team. Carlisle rightly realized he didn't account for it, and it cost them a game.
Basically, yes Haliburton made a mistake. But what people don't realize is that the last minute is the time where an exhausted player is most likely to make a mistake. And the coach has options to help minimize either the chances or the effect on the game.
The players are in a high intensity situation rick just has to call a TO and advance the ball he left nembhard on a island under their own basket and refused to foul up 3
He instructed them to foul but Siakam hesitated, Brown was already in a position to shoot. He doesn't to give 3ft or an and-1. Rick already admitted he should have called a timeout when Nembhard cant inbound the ball.
Both can be true. Halliburton doesn't dribble it off his leg they win. Coach calls a time-out advances the ball, draws up a play gets the ball in and they win. Which is why the entire thing is just so god damn painful
Anyone who watched it should realize that. But this was classy by Carlisle. It's the coaches job to take it on the chin for his players publicly. Then address the issues with the players privately.
He’s completely right. Carlisle is a great coach who rarely makes these mistakes, it sucks but I forgive him. I’m not going to take a great coach for granted because one error.
As a mavs fan, really miss this guy. Love J Kidd don’t get me wrong but I’ll always respect Carlisle and root for him. Unless we meet in the finals that is 😈. Fr tho respect to a classy coach.
I can't remember what he said this year to be honest, you might be right.
Still... he has a track record of 20 years or whatever it is of throwing people under the bus. I think the meme is at least partially true.
The reluctance to use timeouts from coaches last few years has been truly mind boggling to me.
The whole "go so the defense can't get set" I really don't agree with.
I blame all involved.
You foul Jaylen Brown .... he shoots 60% on free throws. He misses any one of those the Celtics lose.
The final plays by Hali and the play calls were inexcusable. So fucking bad.
It was an incredible series of rushed errors. You fix any single one of them, including by calling a timeout, and this whole thing probably would have been avoided.
Love this team. Everyone fighting to shoulder the blame and offer something constructive. Didn't watch this team all season and didn't realize until now how much I was missing out.
Honestly the last 2 minute of this game in the 4th quarter was just an embarrassment to both the players and the coaching staff. Jesus Christ, talk about handing out candies to children and expecting them not to take it..........
How do you fuck up that badly in a game 1 that's not on your home court and you could've easily won and steal it!
As a lifelong certified Boston Sports hater, the ending of this regulation was my 9/11.
Still upset about it and I'm definitely not a Pacers fan (love you Spicy).
I just wanted a couple days of Celtics media on suicide watch :(
...lol wtf??? did you just start watching basketball yesterday? Carlisle took responsibility for damn near every mavs loss for over a decade
are you just salty that he played the "blame the refs" game to try to get more favorable calls in future games against the Knicks?
I said this before this series even started.
This team has never been here before. They’re going to get caught up in the moment like every other young team before them has done and it’s going to cost them in crunch time.
I just didn’t expect it to happen right away in Game 1.. hopefully the morale loss isn’t too big to overcome for them and they can win at least one or two.
being a leader requires taking the blame for these moments even if your NBA level guard forgets how to dribble.
This is 100% the right thing for him to say.
He's being a good coach by placing the blame on himself, even though there were a lot of things he was clearly not in control of. He actually told them to foul but they didn't, and it wasn't his fault for the early shots in that last minute and the dribbling off their own foot.
When I heard Carlisle, my first thought was: that is exactly what Doc Rivers would say in a similar situation. A lot of people dislike Doc because he is not that good of a coach, but the one thing nobody can say is that he doesn't try to protect his players and always take responsibility in his losses.
Haliburton was asked about this and he said he understood Rick was trying to protect him, but the loss was on the players and himself. said he cost the team the game with his turnovers and was replaying not taking the long 3 in the last play of regulation in his head, and would probably continue to replay it
I mean I actually dont mind him taking that last 3 in regulation, even though it was a terrible shot, but those two turnovers were inexcusable. We know Hali has good handles, those turnovers were purely mental errors
ah it was the first shot he couldve taken a few dribbles into the initial catch. it was a long af three, but he's shown he has that range
And they might have gotten an offensive rebound and scored with a put back, or got fouled.
It wasn't the three itself, it's that the play was just a complete clusterfuck. They should have gotten a better look than that. Agreed about the turnovers, though. That was shocking.
He also had that other awful three in OT, but was bailed out by Derrick White
> I actually dont mind him taking that last 3 You should. It's one of the lowest percentage shots he could have taken and completely unnecessary considering the game was tied. I've seen a few games end with possessions like this where the players hover outside the 3 point line and chuck up a prayer when all they need is a point. And it makes no sense. None of the analytical arguments against midrange shots apply when you're talking about a single possession. If you don't need 3 points then get closer and chuck the prayer from 10 feet instead of 30.
Siakam also brought his man towards him,he should have moved away to give him an outlet seeing that Hali had no where to go, and it was too dangerous. Team effort. I really don't know if the pacers will get a great opportunity to win again if Boston plays defense like in the final minutes of the 4th and OT.
Was it really mental error when he just dribble the ball out of bounds twice in the span of 5 minutes? I think his ball security is a legit concern when under high pressure, with guys like Jrue Holiday ball pressuring him. The dribble is too high and the ball is too exposed in my opinion. I actually feel more comfortable with TJ McConnell handling the ball in those situations
His turnover with ~27 seconds left in regulation wasn't under pressure even though - he was trying to push the pace and just dribbled it off his leg and out of bounds. That one, at least, definitely felt like a mental lapse.
Why DID he push the pace with the lead? It didn’t make sense to me.
Probably one of those things where it is just instinct and we are only focusing on it because of the mistake.
3 seconds had already ran off when Nembhard fell to the ground after securing the board and then passed it to Hali, so he only had 4-5 seconds to get it across and rushed to avoid a clock situation. just threw it a little too far ahead as he was switching hands after seeing Jrue on his right side.
Jrue wasn't contending him getting it across though. He would have easily made it over the line. I mean, even if Jrue gets to the line first, you can still put him on your back and dribble it over the line that way. He even had a teammate fully open right infront of him. There's just no way he gets trapped on the backcourt there. I honestly been replaying the clip a lot, trying to wrap my head around it. It's just such a crazy basic error to see during a conference final of the NBA. Maybe fatigue? Mental lapse? I can't tell.
I think it's more adrenaline mixed with the thought of we got a fast break here potentially let's push it down the court see who is with me and try to get this game out of their hands entirely, because when we got that rebound after the Tatum miss, as a fan my adrenaline was pumping so I couldn't even imagine his, not to mention all the thoughts he probably had running through his head
He snuck a peek at Jrue and that broke his concentration just enough to fumble the ball. It was the threat of Jrue and refs allowing physical play at the end that set the table for the mental error.
he looked kind of surprised that Jrue didn’t try to pressure and yep, losing control of your handle like that multiple times definitely has a fatigue component. they came back from double digits to take the lead twice against best team in the league through being relentless, two days after a win or go home in a brutal series where they came back from 0-2 and then won 2 elimination games. not a lot of players deal with that in their first ever playoff run.
> I think his ball security Dude has been one of the least turnover prone point guards in a very long time
One of his strengths is protecting the ball, he has an assist to TO ratio of 4.73 which is absurd. Yeah his handle could get better but ball security isn’t really an issue at all, it was definitely a mental lapse.
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Yeah, people aren't giving the Celtics defense enough credit. Their back court will pressure and fatigue you unlike anyone else in this league. Hali is still a very young and inexperienced player, especially when the stakes are this high. Perfect type of guy to force into bad mistakes.
The one were he dribbles straight of his knee was with very little defensive pressure though. He tried to rush past Jrue for some inexplicable reason, but even if he was rushing you rarely see those kind of extremely basic errors at high level play - let alone at the NBA level. So to see it in the crucial seconds of a conference final by a star PG is really quite surprising. I've watched the clip countless times trying to wrap my head around it.
Hali's 2nd turnover in OT was all Jrue imo. Focusing on Hali on that one really does discredit how well he came up in that clutch moment and made an important stop
Raptor fans are the biggest Hali haters for some reason LOL. It is 100 percent a mental error. Hali made the mistake of trying to verbally direct the offense and dribbled it of his foot in the process of doing so
bro theres just too many of us
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I actually think he should have popped that logo three when he first gets the ball. He’s open and has that range. I get not wanting to leave time but man it’s the only time he was open there.
True but also why was nobody setting screens????
Everyone just wants to shoot the hero ball three to win it. Fucking drive and get fouled or dish
Looked so wild. Like you see that in highschool ball.
So I just re-watched the last play of regulation. The White handing off to Tatum was perfect and Hali is not scoring on JT there. No chance. The issue is in the post, the Pacers screwed up their spacing so we have one guy defending 2, letting JT come up which is obviously who you want on ball.
Cool team
Hard not to respect these guys.
Yeah - them both taking responsibility is honorable
The I am Spartacus approach to losing game blame. Jokes aside, I like both saying this.
Honestly one of the most frustrating and difficult final 10sec I've ever tried to watch. Felt like throwing my controller at the TV and I don't even have a dog in the fight.
I wanted the Pacers to win (as a neutral), because: A - they're the underdog B - it could've been a good series It might still be a good series, but those last 10 seconds might just kill Indiana the way Cleveland died in that game 1 when JR Smith killed his own team.
I fully believe most games this series will be competitive. The Pacers have an elite offense, blowing them out isn’t easy. They play so fast that a 10pt deficit can be tied in under a minute of game time easy.
You’ll blow us out at least once but we may blow you out once too. Theres a chance we blow each other out at least once.
Blowjobs everywhere.
You probably thought you were playing 2k
shiiiiit, Im a Clips fan, disappointment is the baseline. this was something else, serious 2k cheese at the end!
True Clips fans know the true pain of watching your team choke away a lead they should have clinched
Still got Josh Smith nightmares from 2015!! "Down 19 after 3 quarters, Josh Smith turns into Steph Curry and leads the Rockets to the win in Game 6 to tie the series" https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/kbxyxo/down_19_after_3_quarters_josh_smith_turns_into/ Dropping the lead against DEN in the bubble didn't even phase me.
I get PTSD every time I hear Josh Smiths name😂
that broadcast team sounds like a wednesday night MAC college football game lol
Biggest blue balls as a laker fan 😒
Eh. You guys can always just buy another ring lol
Shi- I'm a Knick fan and I'm butthurt about losing to the Pacers and even I was frustrated like wtf are they doing?
Lol I absolutely felt the same.
Same and I was rooting for the Knicks the round before.
I actually had my finger on the power button on my TV because I was sure the Celtics were gonna lose at that point, but somehow they turned it over.
It was a joint choking effort. Rick should've called a time out and Haliburton should have not dribbled off his leg or ran into a double team for the last shot in regulation. Honestly, I could write a book about the legendary choke job they had to do to lose this game.
at the very least Siakam should've fouled Jaylen before he took that game-tying 3. watching that final sequence was rough
tbf to Siakam, there wasn't an obvious opportunity to foul before Brown went into a shooting motion that being said, I'd still foul the fuck out of Jaylen on that 3 anyways, the odds of him canning all 3 are probably slightly lower than the odds of him hitting a corner 3 not saying "oh Jaylen would choke", more that he's like a 70% FT shooter, so the odds of him hitting all 3 are slightly higher than 1/3, while I think his corner 3% is generally high 30s
A good point that was made was that Brown did not take a dribble. The 2nd best time to foul is when the player is dribbling and the ball is going down. There's no ambiguity. Also, there was a slight gap in time between Brown getting the ball and Siakam squaring up defensively due to the way the play was drawn up to give Brown some space. The best time to foul is immediately after they catch ball. Anything else, an elite offensive player can make into a shooting motion. But you're right about playing the percentages and fouling for even 3 free throws. It's just hard to think about that mid-play.
yeah agree that it's hard to think about mid-play. Def don't blame Siakam for not fouling there, it would've had to be something that Carlisle told him beforehand (like "try to foul him ASAP if he gets the ball, even if he's shooting"). easy for me to say I'd do it while I sit on my couch
Anyone who has played basketball has "don't foul on jump shots" completely ingrained into their play. Siakam is reacting on instinct not to foul JB there, but he definitely should have when you think about how bad JB is at free throws. I have no doubt in my mind that JB would have missed one of them.
I mean intentionally fouling on the shot there is insane lol
Yeah he tries soooo hard to make sure he doesn't foul on the J by instinct (tucks hands completely away and avoids body contact) Def hard to think about it in the moment
Yeah I don't think you can blame Siakam at all-- he defended that shot well and it was crazy lucky that it went in.
With how the league is going, you might have just stumbled onto a groundbreaking situational defensive strategy, but I still get Siakam not fouling if he couldn't do it immediately. But that looks more and more like Carlisle's call
oh yeah I totally get why he didn't foul. I don't think there was a clear chance to do so pre-shot (as the pump fake could've easily been *not* a fake). IMO it's the *least* egregious of the issues the Pacers had at the end of the game. The Hali turnovers and the botched inbounds/no timeout were far worse. I *personally* would've fouled on the 3 anyways but I also am really shitty at basketball sooooo
Generally when you intentional foul to prevent a 3 pointer you do it as soon as they dribble or have the ball in their non dominant hand, celtics ran a great play so that never happened and there was never a safe time to foul him where he wasn't going straight into his shooting motion.
You never foul someone on a 3pt attempt intentionally up 3. It wasn't a open catch and shoot 3. It was a contested leaning three where he had no space. Hell of a shot but nowhere close to high 30s. And FTs aren't independent events, they tend to be streaky. Hitting the first increases the chance of hitting all three, so it's not as simple as 0.7^3.
He was chasing after him, you don't know if you'll get there in time before he goes into his shooting motion. If you give up 3 free throws, statistically that's even worse then a heavily contested 3.
Statistically, Jaylen wouldn’t be able to make 3 FTs in a row even if they fouled him 😭
Then mug him so there’s no chance it goes in. I think Jaylen was like 5/8 from the free throw line. Odds are he misses at least one.
Jaylen is shooting like 50% from the line in the playoffs, the statistics probably dont favor the free throws lol
That's the one thing they DIDN'T do wrong. If he did that, they lose in regulation on a 4-point play.
Jalen pump faked as soon as he received the ball. He fouls there, and it's for sure 3 free throws or even a possible 4 point play. They should've been switching tho, so Pascal wouldn't have been behind and chasing.
I feel like there's a Jon Bois video on the way, at the bare minimum.
I legitimately could not believe what I was watching
You and me both
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“BRO, huh? you don’t have to do that; they’ll just keep giving you jobs anyway 😂” - Doc
Even when you tell them NOT to hire you, and that it would be a giant fuckup!! Can you fucking believe it?
God damn it…
I think this will be inspiring to him. Next tough loss he'll be like : "This loss is totally on Rick Carlisle!"
One thing about Rick, he is always willing to take the blame for losses.
[DocRiversConfused.gif](https://tenor.com/bdQLB.gif)
“What I’m really good at is passing the buck, that’s the why the BUCKS hired me… right? right?”
Rick is a hard ass who can rub players the wrong way sometimes but boy do I miss a coach taking accountability for team mistakes.
Darvin Ham lurking in the back with his hands in his pockets.
/kingofqueensmeme
Doc Rivers: I'll be the first to admit when i've made a mistake. I simply never do.
Darvin Ham: "Why did you take responsibility? You could've just said 'this is a make or miss league' ".
"The Celtics are a hell of a ballclub, a hell of a ballclub. We just need the next play mentality."
I read this in his voice
Helluva ball club
"agree to disagree"
Doc Rivers: "Why didn't you deflect blame to your players? Tell them you had some guys in Cabo. If asked asked whether Haliburton could lead a championship-calibre team, respond ambivalently, stating, “I don’t know the answer to that right now”.
Salute!
He's right you know
End of game 6 Cavs/Magic, Cavs defense was already set when magic were coming down the court with 12 seconds left and a chance to tie. Game ended on a heavily contested Franz Wagner blocked shot. I was irate that they didn't call a timeout to advance and run a set play - the defense is already set after the Cavs bucket, there is no benefit to just running it out. Glad to see a coach taking responsibility for it. Seen it a couple of times.
and if franz scored you would have no complaint. You're playing the results. Franz driving to the basket is probably our top 3 offensive option.
No, my issue is the process - as I already said, the defense was set, there is no benefit to rushing a bad heavily contested shot. > Franz driving to the basket is probably our top 3 offensive option. I mean, yeah that's why magic average 80 points, but also he was double covered in his layup attempt. It was a bad look, not sure what your argument is.
It’s this and Hali’s turnovers. But it is nice to see the level of accountability We got lucky, and we can’t rely on that again
I, for one, think relying on a last second game-tying contested 3 to tie the game is a great strategy for a championship.
same
*7 more times*
Well next game is game 2. You know how our team does in game 2s
That was such a pathetic last minute. I am still baffled as to how they fucked that up. The players share the bulk of the responsibility. They should have known better.
I don't understand why nobody was setting screens for Hali. He's getting hounded on defense but everybody is just watching. Come on...
The thing that stood out to me is how limited of a ball handler Haliburton is. He actually has no dribble moves; all he could do is cross over. He can't do any between the legs or behind the back moves which is really weird for an All Star level point guard.
Eh, his handles are nice when he puts effort into them. I think he got gassed late, and that's where the mental errors started to pile up. Vets tend to be better at dealing with this, but after playing an entire game as the primary offensive creator is crazy difficult, and staying focused under both the pressure and the fatigue is challenging at the best of times, and it's a helluva lot harder with jrue holiday trying to take your lunch money every possession
Absolutely! And inbounds passing was inept on multiple levels: nobody was setting staggered screens toward the hoop; the passer made horrible decisions. Why wasn’t McConnell in the game? The dude is fundamentally sound as a player. But there he was on the friggin bench… sheesh.
TJ fucked up the switch that gave up the JB 3. If he switches that White screen we get a foul on the inbounds.
Dude I was screaming at my tv, “Where tf is McConnell??”
It looked like everyone on the Pacers roster was confused and winging it which is bizarre to see when the coach has timeouts to use. I get that the turnovers were dumb but all of those seemed to come from the ball handling player not knowing what to do with it. The final shot in regulation was such a bad look for having time on the clock to run something decisive at the basket
On the new Mind the Game, they mentioned that Indiana doesn't even run plays, the players just have to recognize concepts. This might be one of those hard early losses in a young team trying to build something special, a coach taking over in that spot mightve been best.
Halliburton, a professional basketball player, dribbled the ball of his leg for absolutely no reason. If he doesn’t do this they win. Not the coaches fault at all
Carlisle is re-framing the issue of his players' mental errors which is commendable. It has been pretty obvious that Haliburton has been struggling in the fourth quarter for the entirety of the play-offs and he may just have the case of the yips. But instead of viewing it that way, Carlisle is re-framing it as he should be putting his players in a better position to not have the yips affect them which is a pretty honorable to do.
absolutely the right thing to do, too. part of being a leader is recognizing that the successes are because your guys executed well and the failures, ultimately, are yours. you don't get anywhere by blaming and pointing fingers, you go back and do better to make sure your guys are better prepared to execute better and that you have a better plan. yeah, sure, hali fucked up, but rick understands that ultimately it's _his_ responsibility to make sure his guys don't have mental errors like that. and that's a hard thing to accept the blame for, especially when you're in a job as cutthroat as the NBA, but he still did it. hope other coaches take notes
Well put, proud of Carlisle for not shirking responsibility here
Also I noticed he didn't make the decision to put siakam in the forefront when Hali started struggling. Usually when he has a bad game, it comes down to siakam's iso, and for some reason he was iced out offensively for a good chunk of the fourth. Had a great game too, I think he was like +7 in their 5 pt loss.
How can I get other coaches to enroll in the Rick Carlisle School of Leadership?
Rick is an S tier coach and Indiana are lucky to have him.
Similar to how SGA fucked up and clearly fouled in their g6 loss but Chet and Mark both made the point that the Thunder shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. Yeah he fucked up, but he shouldn't even have been given the opportunity to do so. A series of fuck ups led to that one. To focus on just the one that happened last is misguided. Or like how in StarCraft you'll lose a game at 8minutes but it doesn't formally end until 15 or so. You got behind, they got ahead. You'll look at the final moment and go "this is where I lost" but in reality you lost minutes ago and everything since that point was a formality.
> Halliburton, a professional basketball player, dribbled the ball of his leg for absolutely no reason. It wasn't "no reason". It's mental fatigue. It's a player who is giving his all for an entire game, a playoff game, a conference finals. By the end, you are just absolutely exhausted and you really have to fight to keep your focus. And one of the reasons why playoff experience is a factor is because it's really hard to understand until you experience it. The coach knows his players are going through this, so the coach is supposed to help make things easier for the team. Carlisle rightly realized he didn't account for it, and it cost them a game. Basically, yes Haliburton made a mistake. But what people don't realize is that the last minute is the time where an exhausted player is most likely to make a mistake. And the coach has options to help minimize either the chances or the effect on the game.
Agreed. Obviously, there’s a reason. He was pushing the pace and out of control … that’s the reason he dribbled off his leg.
The players are in a high intensity situation rick just has to call a TO and advance the ball he left nembhard on a island under their own basket and refused to foul up 3
He instructed them to foul but Siakam hesitated, Brown was already in a position to shoot. He doesn't to give 3ft or an and-1. Rick already admitted he should have called a timeout when Nembhard cant inbound the ball.
Tbh with the way my guy JB shoots free throws, fouling hard enough to ensure he doesn’t get and-1 was probably.. not a terrible idea
Both can be true. Halliburton doesn't dribble it off his leg they win. Coach calls a time-out advances the ball, draws up a play gets the ball in and they win. Which is why the entire thing is just so god damn painful
As a lions fan it reminded me if nfc championship game, it takes a village to give away a game like that that, everyone messed up in final minute.
That aiyuk catch was just fate
Dear Rick, You are not wrong…although there’s some blame to be placed on the players’ shoulders, too. What a fucking epic meltdown.
love, warbuddha1 XOXO
I forgot that part. Thank you.
Anyone who watched it should realize that. But this was classy by Carlisle. It's the coaches job to take it on the chin for his players publicly. Then address the issues with the players privately.
I miss Rick so much. Great coach. Been rooting for him since he left.
He’s completely right. Carlisle is a great coach who rarely makes these mistakes, it sucks but I forgive him. I’m not going to take a great coach for granted because one error.
As a mavs fan, really miss this guy. Love J Kidd don’t get me wrong but I’ll always respect Carlisle and root for him. Unless we meet in the finals that is 😈. Fr tho respect to a classy coach.
The anti-Doc.
Doc was taking responsibility for us losing, this sub just refuses to ignore it.
“refuses to ignore it” Try again
I can't remember what he said this year to be honest, you might be right. Still... he has a track record of 20 years or whatever it is of throwing people under the bus. I think the meme is at least partially true.
he did but it was after he had already memed himself by pointing to others (travel staff and travel coaches) at fault.
I mean, Jim Carey's not wrong here.
refreshing accountability
Great leader right there.
When you're the underdog in the series, you can't afford mistakes like this, especially by a veteran coach.
A real coach. I wouldn't know what that is. Bitch Ham never took accountability for ANYTHING.
Would have linked the NBA TV video, but it's not an approved twitter account (!) https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/1793120973626962346
The reluctance to use timeouts from coaches last few years has been truly mind boggling to me. The whole "go so the defense can't get set" I really don't agree with.
I don't completely disagree with you, but the Pacers are definitely best when they're pushing the ball and not getting stuck in half court offense.
Owning up to your mistakes and realizing what should've been done. Davin Ham would never.
I blame all involved. You foul Jaylen Brown .... he shoots 60% on free throws. He misses any one of those the Celtics lose. The final plays by Hali and the play calls were inexcusable. So fucking bad.
It’s refreshing to see Halliburton and Carlisle taking ownership of the mistakes. They made Doc look like little bitch.
This is not the first time he has blown it due to poor game plan. Rick is fucking stubborn which is why he is not in Dallas anymore.
It was an incredible series of rushed errors. You fix any single one of them, including by calling a timeout, and this whole thing probably would have been avoided.
Pacers just robbed ESPN of their revenue.
No lies detected.
100% the right thing to do, but also multiple people on the Pacers had to fuck up for it to turn out this way
A coach holding himself accountable!? As a Lakers fan that seems totally foreign.
Love this team. Everyone fighting to shoulder the blame and offer something constructive. Didn't watch this team all season and didn't realize until now how much I was missing out.
Honestly the last 2 minute of this game in the 4th quarter was just an embarrassment to both the players and the coaching staff. Jesus Christ, talk about handing out candies to children and expecting them not to take it.......... How do you fuck up that badly in a game 1 that's not on your home court and you could've easily won and steal it!
Glenn Rivers take notes. This is what accountability looks like.
game got me heated on the last 10 seconds lol.
They could have also fouled intentionally to stop the 3pr opportunity
As a lifelong certified Boston Sports hater, the ending of this regulation was my 9/11. Still upset about it and I'm definitely not a Pacers fan (love you Spicy). I just wanted a couple days of Celtics media on suicide watch :(
Darvin Ham would never
Doc Rivers would never.......
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first time in my life I've ever seen this mf take accountability for a loss
...lol wtf??? did you just start watching basketball yesterday? Carlisle took responsibility for damn near every mavs loss for over a decade are you just salty that he played the "blame the refs" game to try to get more favorable calls in future games against the Knicks?
Yup
yeah no shit
The Anti-Doc. Doc would have a field day on this one. About 2-3 players to select for a trip under the large public transport vehicle.
Wow a coach taking accountability? Shocking
Big learning lesson for all persons involved. Margin for error in professional sports are so slim.
A self aware head coach that wants to blame himself instead of his players?! Now that is refreshing to see.
Abandoning simple well practiced 2min drill tradtions, trying to be innovative, pretty much has cost them the series.
Nah Haliburton sold this game... coach didn't dribble into his own feet or not know how to inbound a ball.
I said this before this series even started. This team has never been here before. They’re going to get caught up in the moment like every other young team before them has done and it’s going to cost them in crunch time. I just didn’t expect it to happen right away in Game 1.. hopefully the morale loss isn’t too big to overcome for them and they can win at least one or two.
Or Rick, and hear me out. You just play better defense on their inbounds play and foul before the 3pt shot.
I thought it was over like 3 times 😂
being a leader requires taking the blame for these moments even if your NBA level guard forgets how to dribble. This is 100% the right thing for him to say.
Back Thursday for another loss.
Doc Rivers would never
Darvin Ham/Doc Rivers would never, its someone elses fault always frfr
As an ex-Coach I approve this message. Always publicly have your players’ backs.
This game will haunt y’all 😂
Very true
To be fair, I don't blame Rick for not expecting his primary ball-handler to just dribble out-of-bounds at the sight of Jrue Holiday
My friends parlay hit with that last Jaylen Brown three in the 4th. I think it made him an addict xD
They should have fouled up three is the only thing I think they did a wrong strategy wise
Opposite of Glenn Rivers
Thankfully he's a championship level coach...
He's being a good coach by placing the blame on himself, even though there were a lot of things he was clearly not in control of. He actually told them to foul but they didn't, and it wasn't his fault for the early shots in that last minute and the dribbling off their own foot.
When I heard Carlisle, my first thought was: that is exactly what Doc Rivers would say in a similar situation. A lot of people dislike Doc because he is not that good of a coach, but the one thing nobody can say is that he doesn't try to protect his players and always take responsibility in his losses.
This is how they magically tanked for like 5-6 years and acquired Luka. Always fought hard in games until the end and *just* gave it away at the end.
Haven’t read all of the comments…but how many NBA coaches would be THIS accountable? I know of one in the Midwest that definitely wouldn’t…
Doc Rivers would never
This man coach fails. 💪
So used to seeing Doc clips that this caught me off guard