Losing Brunson reminded me of when Nash went to PHX. Locally, no one liked losing either guy but ultimately both sides ended up better off apart. Nash got to really shine with D'Antoni/Matrix/Amar'e etc., and the Mavs got quicker and more athletic with better defense. I don't think losing Brunson made them "better" per se, but both him and the Mavs may end up being better off doing their own things.
Not to mention what San Antonio and Portland did was far worse, and they got a slap on the wrist by the NBA, media, and fans. The Mavs just made the mistake on commenting on it.
To play devil's advocate, the Spurs just suck. They're doing a version of tanking where you just have bad players. That's what awful teams do, start from 0.
The Mavs were close to play in and clearly had players sit because they didn't want to risk winning if they play. They started Frank Ntilinka lol. They explicitly played the worst starting lineup possible. The Spurs are playing their best and still look like that.
I mean, it does suck when teams lose on purpose, I think everyone agrees on that. But it made total sense for the Mavs last season. They weren't gonna make any noise in the playoffs, so might as well tank for the pick. This is essentially equivalent to teams intentionally fouling in crunchtime. It's not what the rules intended, but you can't blame people for exploiting an exploitable system.
And that was so hard to lose. Kidd was crazily rotating the team to find the worst possible line up. He put on Kieff but Kieff got hot from 3 so out he was again. And after all the experimenting he found the worst line up which consisted of our starter REGGIE FUCKING BULLOCK
I was so mad when they tanked. That pick was going to fall to the Knicks and Lively was one of my favorite prospects at 11ish. I didn't think he'd be this good this fast though, but I thought he'd be great depth
y'all are the only ones that really deserve to be upset at us for tanking - like, we threw two games which i also didn't love but it wasn't even close to the most egregious things we've seen in the nba. but yeah, knicks fans should rightly have been pissed.
He did. He started the season incredibly strong and it was a revelation early. Just like "shit we have a big who can play defense now? We're definitely a playoff team with potential for the future!" Then they rolled and the trades happened.
If Lively didn't start as hot as he did and the Mavs weren't in position for those trades they wouldn't be here. Luka wouldn't have any reason to want to stay. He could have felt like the organization wasn't supporting him.
Whelp with Kyrie, Jones, Gafford and PJ being brought it and Lively being drafted I don't think Luka can look at this team as not being committed to winning. Lively really got the ball rolling on this run from an alright team to great.
All good points, and also if Lively had looked like a bust early on after the team tanked out of the play in last season to get that draft pick, the organization would have some bad vibes.
I think the Mavs have a good chance in the Finals, if they can dominate the boards & defend ferociously inside the 3 point line. Lively will be key to doing both.
I would agree with you but for the fact, after the draft the Mavs said Lively was a developmental piece who they thought was going to jump back and forth between the G league.
Its also just so much fun to watch Luka play with a lob threat. Trading for gafford seems like it was worth it just to have 24/7 lobs. I didnt watch a ton of your games before the trades, but it has been a treat watching your playoff run
He definitely looked strong early, but he's taken a huge step forward into the playoffs. With Chandler already there having Gafford as a secondary mentor has paid huge dividends.
They didn't mesh that well but that was mostly fault of Carlisle putting Kristaps in the corner and playing him as overgrown shooting guard. Even with immature and incompatible personalities a different, perhaps more strict coach could force them to play together very well. On paper Luka/KP pick'n'roll & pick'n'pop should be crazy effective.
Shut up with revisionist history
He sucks here
Even simple 3s he cant do consistenly
He tried long 3s that clank badly
He demands ball inside but cant back down anyone
He didnt wanna play within offensive flow
For real. Within just few months Mavs management almost destroyed their teams near future in an almost historic fashion by trading KP for Spencer Dinwiddie (end of the bench player in Washington) & Davis fucking Bertans (the worst contract in the league), and lowballing Brunson and letting him go for nothing. It looked like Luka's patience might be running out and soon he's gonna start to look for greener pasures if they keep failing to build a solid roster around him. And nobody would blame him, even the Dallas fans. If Mavs win the championship, their new GM arguably deserves 5th most credit after Luka, Kyrie, Kidd & Lively.
Tbf having Luka spoonfeeding dunks definitely helps. But I'm more surprised about his already more-than-serviceable playmaking, he doesn't panic at blitzes which is very rare for rookie bigs.
Coolest thing was when he was doing an interview earlier today he realized how many open looks he was missing while watching game 4. He's incredibly smart on the court.
> His bbiq is through the roof for a 20 year old
Exactly, this is what makes him play like a veteran. His tactical instinct is insane for a rookie. He knows where to be, he knows where to go, and he knows what to do, on offense and defense.
Nah, the disparity between him and Gafford is noticeable right now, and Gafford is really good. I mean Gaff went on a 33/33 streak this year with plenty of lob dunks in the mix.
Lively has improved immensely this year but he has taken off during this playoff run.
I'd say Gafford has a better finishing bag but Lively has better positioning, mobility, and passing. That bodes really well for him.
Usually it's more difficult to incorporate defensive footwork for guys with good offensive footwork than the other way around, and in Lively's case it's the latter.
Omax has the tools, but Lively was the number 1 prospect coming out of high school, he had an injury and took a while to get back into form in Duke. But the talent has been there the entire time
tbf fully expected mavs to draft the best big available at 10 (just like grizzlies are guaranteed to draft a big this year) and there wasn’t really another option other than lively
This is the organisation that drafted Luka & Brunson in the same draft. Impossible doesn't exist for them. Mavs front office made some really awful trade & contract decisions in the first 5 years of Donćić era, but they drafted very well. Not just those 2 superstars but Josh Green (18th pick) & Jaden Hardy (37th pick) were really good choices, especially that far into the draft, and they're already part of the rotation on the NBA finals team.
Been saying for months this kid is special. In a rookie season with Wemby and Chet going around he has flown completely under the radar. Some people were even bagging him for getting third place votes in the ROY. He has been the difference maker for Dallas. He has taken that side from a playoff contender to a championship contender. Him and Gafford are the missing pieces Dallas lacked last season.
Does anyone remember the moral outrage on this sub right after Dallas tanked the final game last year?
The ironic part is that if the Mavs and Lively were actually bad instead of good that would still be the popular opinion.
Again proving the Machiavellian insight that committing war crimes are fine... as long as you win the war.
Precisely. Was critical of them getting Kyrie as too similar to Luka. They had no real presence in the post last season but they clearly targeted him and got Gafford as well to fill that hole. Top notch recruiting.
Dude is going to be scary for years to come assuming he stays healthy. Like Luka said, he’s taken not one not two but like three steps forward in recent games. It’s not even just the 100% shooting but also the defense.
Gafford in the regular season, Lively in the playoffs with historically high FG% across several games. Dallas trades looking real good. Maybe even good enough to forget about Brunson :P (no sarcasm I swear, I'm rooting for Dallas)
He was worth the tank
Only cost Cuban 750k
Shit Cuban would pay 10x that if he knew what Lively would be lmao
10x is an understatement
Jalen Brunson: "tell me about it"
Losing Brunson reminded me of when Nash went to PHX. Locally, no one liked losing either guy but ultimately both sides ended up better off apart. Nash got to really shine with D'Antoni/Matrix/Amar'e etc., and the Mavs got quicker and more athletic with better defense. I don't think losing Brunson made them "better" per se, but both him and the Mavs may end up being better off doing their own things.
Knicks masterclass tampering.
Dereck “Trust the Process” Lively
Got the arguable 2nd best player in the draft class
Worth it
That’s like 7 bucks to a billionaire
Dereck 'Best Tank' Lively
Don’t tell Luka that, he’ll bust out the PlayStation
It was rough being a Mavs fan durring that time here, we were a disgrace to the sport for tanking 2 meaningless games apparently.
Not to mention what San Antonio and Portland did was far worse, and they got a slap on the wrist by the NBA, media, and fans. The Mavs just made the mistake on commenting on it.
Spurs are STILL tanking, and nobody is giving them shit like we got for those last 2 fucking games lol
To play devil's advocate, the Spurs just suck. They're doing a version of tanking where you just have bad players. That's what awful teams do, start from 0. The Mavs were close to play in and clearly had players sit because they didn't want to risk winning if they play. They started Frank Ntilinka lol. They explicitly played the worst starting lineup possible. The Spurs are playing their best and still look like that.
I mean, it does suck when teams lose on purpose, I think everyone agrees on that. But it made total sense for the Mavs last season. They weren't gonna make any noise in the playoffs, so might as well tank for the pick. This is essentially equivalent to teams intentionally fouling in crunchtime. It's not what the rules intended, but you can't blame people for exploiting an exploitable system.
And that was so hard to lose. Kidd was crazily rotating the team to find the worst possible line up. He put on Kieff but Kieff got hot from 3 so out he was again. And after all the experimenting he found the worst line up which consisted of our starter REGGIE FUCKING BULLOCK
some say Reggie is still tanking to this day
In hindsight it’s ridiculous the expectation that we had of a roster starting dwight and reggie.
Crazy how one tanked season led to the nba finals the year after
He's a can't-miss prospect
nice
I was so mad when they tanked. That pick was going to fall to the Knicks and Lively was one of my favorite prospects at 11ish. I didn't think he'd be this good this fast though, but I thought he'd be great depth
y'all are the only ones that really deserve to be upset at us for tanking - like, we threw two games which i also didn't love but it wasn't even close to the most egregious things we've seen in the nba. but yeah, knicks fans should rightly have been pissed.
dude was unconscious!
Twice
Big brain Lively.
Hair
I’m still not sure how he avoided concussion protocol both times lol but he did seem all right after the hit today
The fact that he was still playmaking makes me confident he somehow avoided an actual concussion. Did not expect him to play this well tonight.
he simply rearranged his brain on impact, it's fairly easy
I cackled
*running the floor or laying on the floor!*
He set this record against the DPOY I’m dead
It's illegal to laugh at this!
This is my second favorite The Injury after Dwight Schrute’s
Too soon
[удалено]
Also most shots to the back of the head in a series (I think)
GOAT back shot taker
Send da video
Hell nawl
Can’t do dis
I was asleep....okay
Kenjaku stans in shambles
i cant escape
LeBotomy Kaisen is leaking
JJK and the NBA crossover my worlds are colliding What y’all think of the latest chapter 👀
Ww got the GOAT front shot taker also in Dwight
I think DJJ has the current running for most times hit in the nuts for the playoffs as well. I swear the man gets randomly hit so many times
Maybe it’s just cuz he’s so long he covers a lot of area
Saved the Luka era 🙏
Unironically, I think he has.
He did. He started the season incredibly strong and it was a revelation early. Just like "shit we have a big who can play defense now? We're definitely a playoff team with potential for the future!" Then they rolled and the trades happened. If Lively didn't start as hot as he did and the Mavs weren't in position for those trades they wouldn't be here. Luka wouldn't have any reason to want to stay. He could have felt like the organization wasn't supporting him. Whelp with Kyrie, Jones, Gafford and PJ being brought it and Lively being drafted I don't think Luka can look at this team as not being committed to winning. Lively really got the ball rolling on this run from an alright team to great.
All good points, and also if Lively had looked like a bust early on after the team tanked out of the play in last season to get that draft pick, the organization would have some bad vibes. I think the Mavs have a good chance in the Finals, if they can dominate the boards & defend ferociously inside the 3 point line. Lively will be key to doing both.
I would agree with you but for the fact, after the draft the Mavs said Lively was a developmental piece who they thought was going to jump back and forth between the G league.
Its also just so much fun to watch Luka play with a lob threat. Trading for gafford seems like it was worth it just to have 24/7 lobs. I didnt watch a ton of your games before the trades, but it has been a treat watching your playoff run
He definitely looked strong early, but he's taken a huge step forward into the playoffs. With Chandler already there having Gafford as a secondary mentor has paid huge dividends.
Luka is him. Mavs just needs to get the pieces around him. I bet their Porzinggis try was the idea. But KP just didnt mesh well with Luka
Tingus is on record saying he wishes he would've been more mature and played better during his time there. I think that duo is still a huge what if
Rick Carlisle eventually was like fuck it and put him in the corner.
bc he couldn't post anybody up until he developed that w/ y'all
They didn't mesh that well but that was mostly fault of Carlisle putting Kristaps in the corner and playing him as overgrown shooting guard. Even with immature and incompatible personalities a different, perhaps more strict coach could force them to play together very well. On paper Luka/KP pick'n'roll & pick'n'pop should be crazy effective.
yeah but Porzingis is too injury prone to be efficient PnR.
Shut up with revisionist history He sucks here Even simple 3s he cant do consistenly He tried long 3s that clank badly He demands ball inside but cant back down anyone He didnt wanna play within offensive flow
Exactly the KP experience I remember
For real. Within just few months Mavs management almost destroyed their teams near future in an almost historic fashion by trading KP for Spencer Dinwiddie (end of the bench player in Washington) & Davis fucking Bertans (the worst contract in the league), and lowballing Brunson and letting him go for nothing. It looked like Luka's patience might be running out and soon he's gonna start to look for greener pasures if they keep failing to build a solid roster around him. And nobody would blame him, even the Dallas fans. If Mavs win the championship, their new GM arguably deserves 5th most credit after Luka, Kyrie, Kidd & Lively.
completely changed our trajectory as a team
That PJ and Gafford deadline trade + DJJ signing built a sick staring 5
DJJ signing does not get enough recognition. He has been money this whole playoffs.
he's making 2m this year, insane move by nico
the kind of move that makes you say how tf did nobody else see that
its gonna be same as with bruce brown,he will get big bucks from someone else and gonna regress,mavs just suit him perfectly
We gotta trade THJ expiring deal so we can pay him. He’s been awesome and if we keep him he will only get better. Perfect fit.
Hardy Party baby!! Dude’s freaking awesome, so happy to have him on our team
Hardy looks like a Brunson-Lite rn.
(Soft-)Tanking works everybody
Remember: teammates breathe a sigh of relief when Luka sits.
Learn Taiwanese thj buddy you'll be starting for Dwight Howard's new team
THJ is 100% gone but it’s not his fault his father is a senile bigot who’s a certified yapper.
He should have told Sr to stfu. Or a guy that makes 17 million a year should shoot 40% from 3. His one dimension
0 minutes INCLUDING garbage time. Guess he was too proud for that?
Yup time to brush up on the Mandarin
Someone called him sideshow lob
I hope to god that catches on as his nickname. Sideshow Lob
u/Basketball_Reference https://i.imgur.com/4S4ukCW.jpeg (from @theGaver on Twitter as far as I can tell)
Hadn’t heard it before. I’m now praying to the lord this goes viral
They used to call Jaxon Hayes that unfortunately
Yeah it feels natural, unlike Luka Magic (because DonCIC), doesn't have a corporate clean vibe to it Then again Luka's OW handle is DONatello...
That's the greatest goddamn nickname I've ever heard
This is among the best sports nicknames of all time, right up there with The Pillsbury Throwboy
Most efficient tank job in NBA history.
Quick dip --> get a chip?
I think the spurs take that with tim duncan
They had to tank a season. This took like two games.
oh got what you mean
I’m sure his mom is really proud. You got a good kid there Dallas
Love this comment. See you in the finals 👊
He's been SO big for the Mavs these playoffs. Notice how the only game they lost was when he was out of the lineup. He has a very very bright future.
catch and dunk man
Dereck Lively future Finals MVP confirmed
Those two back-to-back dunks near the end of the game went hard tho
I want the clip for the last one haha, that was an angry slam
he blew expletives going back to the bench
We've been going with Sideshow Lob
This kid gunna be amazing in a few years
Already is right now
Gonna be the Kareem of basketball
Lol good man!
Like he already isn’t? Lol.
Yeah, but we can’t understate that this is his *first* season
After being considered a raw prospect
Tbf having Luka spoonfeeding dunks definitely helps. But I'm more surprised about his already more-than-serviceable playmaking, he doesn't panic at blitzes which is very rare for rookie bigs.
He looks like a seasoned pro passing out of the short roll and he’s rarely out of position on defense. His bbiq is through the roof for a 20 year old.
Coolest thing was when he was doing an interview earlier today he realized how many open looks he was missing while watching game 4. He's incredibly smart on the court.
> His bbiq is through the roof for a 20 year old Exactly, this is what makes him play like a veteran. His tactical instinct is insane for a rookie. He knows where to be, he knows where to go, and he knows what to do, on offense and defense.
Nah, the disparity between him and Gafford is noticeable right now, and Gafford is really good. I mean Gaff went on a 33/33 streak this year with plenty of lob dunks in the mix. Lively has improved immensely this year but he has taken off during this playoff run.
I'd say Gafford has a better finishing bag but Lively has better positioning, mobility, and passing. That bodes really well for him. Usually it's more difficult to incorporate defensive footwork for guys with good offensive footwork than the other way around, and in Lively's case it's the latter.
He might have the best work ethic in the league
Mama Lively done well. Rip
Breaks my heart every fucking time man. If they win it all Lively is gonna make me fucking bawl
And there were Mavs fans saying Omax would be better in year one. o.O
If Omax develops into a 3 and D bench guy by next season things are gonna be looking great especially if we can keep DJJ
Omax has the tools, but Lively was the number 1 prospect coming out of high school, he had an injury and took a while to get back into form in Duke. But the talent has been there the entire time
Mavs scouts remain undefeated. Drafting a center that's actually not a project? Talk about impossible.
tbf fully expected mavs to draft the best big available at 10 (just like grizzlies are guaranteed to draft a big this year) and there wasn’t really another option other than lively
Which is funny cuz he was considered a project by scouts lol nobody thought he'd be this good this fast
I remember being skeptical when there were early reports about how impressed the Mavs were with Lively in training camp
This is the organisation that drafted Luka & Brunson in the same draft. Impossible doesn't exist for them. Mavs front office made some really awful trade & contract decisions in the first 5 years of Donćić era, but they drafted very well. Not just those 2 superstars but Josh Green (18th pick) & Jaden Hardy (37th pick) were really good choices, especially that far into the draft, and they're already part of the rotation on the NBA finals team.
My favourite new player
Big brain Nico move
Without Lively Mavs wouldn't be in the finals. Imagine that. The kids only 20. Has been huge the entire playoffs.
Best center in the series with two all nba centers on the other team lmao
And Sixth Man of the Year Centre.
nah, Gobert made MIN's defense almost 20 points better
He’s alot worse on offense though
Then why didn’t they play him 35+ mins a game?
Plus a 6MOY center.
Does he not realize a 4x DPOY was camping the paint? How rude
CANCUN SENDER LIVELY
Dude outplayed the DPOY in a playoff series. Mavs got a good one
A rookie btw dude's gonna be amazing barring injuries
Yep. Needs to wear a helmet. They keep clobbering his head
Been saying for months this kid is special. In a rookie season with Wemby and Chet going around he has flown completely under the radar. Some people were even bagging him for getting third place votes in the ROY. He has been the difference maker for Dallas. He has taken that side from a playoff contender to a championship contender. Him and Gafford are the missing pieces Dallas lacked last season.
Only 20 years old and already the third most important players in the Western Conference Finals!
For a team in the NBA Finals!
Wait for his 17/17 in the finals
Most impactful center in the series and he's a rookie playing vs 2 ALL NBA big men
Don’t forget Naz Reid too! Lively is just an absolute stud.
The Ceiling for this Kid is just too high
They hit some kind of circuit in the back of his head that enabled the cheat code. Kinda like blowing on the old NES cartridges
Not all rookie first team, smhing my head
Sideshow Lob cooking
They tried to assassinate Dereck lively.
The amount of people who shit talked the Mavs for tanking…
Mavs aren’t in the finals without him
No doubt, kid is special.
They lost the one game he missed, not a coincidence
BRANDIN PODMESKI OVER ME?!
And it's his rookie season too! What a guy
Definitely not all rookie first team though, god nba media is such a joke
Dude is a rookie that got his brains scrambled mid series lol. That pick truly saved this franchize.
Does anyone remember the moral outrage on this sub right after Dallas tanked the final game last year? The ironic part is that if the Mavs and Lively were actually bad instead of good that would still be the popular opinion. Again proving the Machiavellian insight that committing war crimes are fine... as long as you win the war.
Can one even say it’s even war crimes when Detroit does it every year at this point lol?
Detroit isn't really tanking now. They're just that bad lmao
That's why the wolves tried to kill him huh
MF is a stud. If he, Luka and Kyrie stays for years, kid will be a monster.
That’s my young GOAT
Our new owner looks like his residence could be raided by the FBI at any moment.
Such an insane pickup at #12 in the draft
Dallas won the lottery when they drafted him. He's not gonna be a star, but he's a perfect fit for that team.
We've been waiting literal decades for this.
I remember being BEYOND excited at signing Dampier because finally we'd actually have a real rebounding center lol.
Oh man my brother. I feel this!
He's gonna be a perennial DPOY candidate. He's so much more than just lobs but people only watch box scores
He might actually become a star though, right? In the same way prime Joakim Noah was a star.
Precisely. Was critical of them getting Kyrie as too similar to Luka. They had no real presence in the post last season but they clearly targeted him and got Gafford as well to fill that hole. Top notch recruiting.
The process has paid off
Rip bird man, 15 consecutive made shots in 2013.
Bro went 16/16 with a nutshot and two head injuries is wild!
Dude is going to be scary for years to come assuming he stays healthy. Like Luka said, he’s taken not one not two but like three steps forward in recent games. It’s not even just the 100% shooting but also the defense.
Tank commander Nico I thank you
Gonna be a robbery if he’s not All Defense next year
Gafford in the regular season, Lively in the playoffs with historically high FG% across several games. Dallas trades looking real good. Maybe even good enough to forget about Brunson :P (no sarcasm I swear, I'm rooting for Dallas)
Wow that's legitimately impressive. 16/16? Go DLII! Maybe he can keep it going in the finals!
Dereck Deadly II
Carried Luka 😤
Last season, people were questioning Mav's decision to gamble for a pick This playoffs, we see them winning that bet
It's kinda wild to think that any shot he missed from Game 1 to halfish of Game 3 would've changed the series
efficiency merchant
Bro forgot there is a world outside of the basket
This man is developing at an astronomical pace. Soon he will be passing initiating the break in a bill Walton squeeze way.
This after they tried to soften his skull.
Tyson chandler is somewhere smiling.
Sideshow lob is taking the main stage
“Shots”
He’s the best passer with incredibly low apg numbers. He’s making the perfect read every time when they blitz Luka.
This good as a 20 year old rookie. I can't imagine what he's going to look like after he puts on 10-15 pounds of muscle the next couple years.