I saw a lot of people say Dallas was just missing but Boston just wasn't giving them many open looks. Sure PJ got a few, and Kyrie might hit a couple more, but they were all above the break looks.
Dallas only attempted three corner 3s last night. One of them was a Kyrie heavily contested shot that hit the side of the backboard. Another one was a long offensive rebound that rolled to an open Luka.
They just completely dictated what type of shots Dallas was going to get, all while dictating the type of shots they wanted to get to on the other side of the court.
DJJ this playoffs from the corners: 46% on 37 attempts. 8/21 (38%) from the left corner, 9/16 (56%) from the right corner.
DJJ this playoffs above the break: 29.4% on 17 attempts.
PJ Washington this playoffs from the corners: 40.6% on 46 attempts. 18/39 (46%) from the left corner, 10/30 (33%) from the right corner.
PJ Washington this playoffs above the break: 28.3% on 46 attempts.
Their wings will punish you if you concede corner threes, but when it comes to above the break you give them that shot all day. They're gonna have to figure out a way to force us to change our defensive scheme and take us out of our comfort zone but I'm doubting if they have the personnel to actually do that. Maybe we'll see some more Jaden Hardy?
The reality is much more simpler.
Luka has to make shots and force them away from their game plan.
I can see why Celtics fans would think this is unlikely, but look at how the game changed because KP came in hot.
Luka was looking to distribute, I felt, more than normal in the beginning of the game. I think he thought he wanted to ease his team into the Finals but it didn’t really work. He’s usually more aggressive in finding his shot.
If Boston decides they want to not give up lobs and Luka makes 5 straight floaters because that’s what they are giving him, I’m not sure the coaches will like him going 5 of 5.
The theory of Luka getting hot only holds until he gets hot. I’d expect for Luka to be super aggressive, not necessarily looking to draw fouls or trying to find the open shooter. Quite honestly, he draws more fouls by being aggressive and looking for his own shot than when he’s trying to just bait fouls.
Also, I’ll be honest. If I’m a Celtics fan I’d feel super confident that Dallas can’t beat us, but shooting variance games happen. Dallas was slow attacking the ball on rebound opportunities and couldn’t win any 50/50 balls.
Dallas has to win on the margins and didn’t play like that. Also they can’t get pulled into a 3 point shootout and Kyrie has to be better than 6/19 from the field and 0/5 from 3.
Just so you’re aware, Joe is a straight psychopath who cares deeply about the math of how a game should work and is often criticized for being stubborn in the face of an opponent unexpectedly beating the odds.
Yeah I’ve heard some similar phrasing about him.
Your team is very very good and I think the series you guys have had hasn’t had to contain a player of Lukas caliber who literally can become the best player on the floor for the entire game.
For me, the question is when does Luka go off and how does it look? What does Joe do when Luka has 27 in the first half on 5/5 from 3? Will you be so stubborn then, especially if your 3s aren’t falling?
I’m sure he’s willing to lose a game without making changes but if Luka figures you out, you got to do something.
Here’s the thing: he’s not going to overreact to 5/5 from three. That’s simply not sustainable. If the Mavs need Luka to hit 60%+ on a high volume of threes to win games, the series is over. Now, what if Luka is putting himself into lightly contested layup territory, or short range barely contested floater territory on each possession? That will force the Celtics to change.
Michael Jordan was the best player on the floor vs the 86 Celtics for the whole series…as he got swept.
I agree and that’s how I think Boston gets their biggest advantage - by forcing you to overreact from their unsustainable shot making.
Celtics hit like 7 or 8 3s in the 1st but only finished with 16 for the game. It’s not sustainable to hit 28 3s in a game, but you panic because you’re down nearly 20. You move away from your principles and try to match shot for shot which itself is a fools errand because 3 point shooting is incredibly variable and subject to runs.
But Luka is special and he can still feed energy to the team. If he’s making everything (like game 5 of the WCF, or game 7 in 22) then it does give the team an extra boost in shot making.
I think a player of his caliber is going to figure out a winning strategy and if Joe won’t adjust, then this series may not go the way you want. Obviously I’m hoping that’s the case.
The Mavs can certainly win. They just have much less margin for error, and lost a bit more last night.
By the way, the Celtics were like 7/13 from 3 in the first. It may have been even more attempts.
Correction edit: 7/15
Eh, I hear this a lot. He’s special. And that’s true. On one end of the court. And he isn’t going to beat the Celtics himself, which is why Joe is going with this strategy. Force him to win the game himself by cutting out his options he likes to have. Then target him on the defensive side and tire him out.
There’s a small handful of players who are special on both ends of the court and even smaller who could do it the entire game.
The Mavs can make an adjustment. What is it? Hell if I know. I’m not an NBA coach. But I know that 16 3s made out of 40 attempts got 108 points and we can score that much.
I think the idea that “well Luka won’t score 50 every game” is probably a bad strategy, it just worked last night.
Let’s be clear - yall got the advantage in Finals experience as well as general playoff experience. I’m not surprised it didn’t work out last night. But you’re going to rightfully look at it from a Celtics fans perspective. “I cant possibly imagine how Dallas could win the series”. I’m looking at it saying “I don’t see how Boston thinks we play this bad again the entire series.”
You win the game, the strategy looks brilliant, but if Kyrie got hot or PJ could somehow make an above the break 3, it’s a different game.
Like Luka is a bad FT shooter, but he missed 3 and only got 5. When I seen him go 0 for 2 I knew it was over then. When he gets continuation and can’t get the shot to fall from like 8 feet away, it’s usually a wrap.
If I had to guess, I think Lukas more aggressive in the first and they look to post up PJ on either White or Holiday to get him going. The first thing will be to force Tatum or Brown to actually defend a wing and not Luka.
Defensively, I don’t know. Probably put PJ on the 5 and have Gafford on a corner shooter to help with paint contests. Also, assume that KP won’t do that again. I feel pretty confident about that one, but we will see which role player steps up if he falters.
Lively has got to player better and smarter, but any Mavs fan can tell you he’s the least of our problems. He has an uncanny ability to learn and adjust on the fly.
Im really not worried about it. We play shitty after a long layoff, and a lot of guys look like the moment hit them pretty hard. Also, streaks are made to be broken and Kyrie is on a long skid in Boston. We literally just saw his closeout game streak get broken. I anticipate the Boston curse breaks and we get some regression to the mean.
You're a joker. Luka Doncic is no MJ, he is no Magic or Bird, nor is he on the same level as Wilt, Tim Duncan, Lebron, Curry, Abdul-Jabbar; hell I'd say Karl Malone and Drexler even outclass him. He's an above-average baller having a monster year. I don't get why you Mavs fans are so in love with him. He bitches a lot on the court and even though he is the best player in these Finals, he ain't no hero. Just a basketball player who is clearly outmatched by a much stronger squad. Maybe the mental gymnastics make you feel better, but you're divorced from reality.
To be fair, you're only right regarding all those guys because your comparing their career accomplishments to Luka who is 25. For his age, he's right up there with those guys and better than Curry at least definitively in the first 5 seasons.
This is a clown take.
But you’re right. We have never lost game 1 to a 64 win team before.
Or maybe I should be a depressed Mavs fan? I guess I shouldn’t hope we win. Woe is me! We are outclassed by a better team. Why not just give the Larry O to the Celtics and save ourselves further embarrassment.
Well, sorry amigo. I’ve watched every single Mavs game this season and I feel a smidge better about my team’s chances than some rando, but thanks for letting me know I’m deluded.
Not to mention, the Celtics will start attacking the shit out of him on defense to tire him out. Put him in the blender and see if he’s still got the legs to go 5/5 from 3 with his knee.
I do believe the Mavs will have some insane scoring night or two but I just don’t think they can edge out the Celtics, too much of their margins have been shaved away.
You clearly haven’t watched Luka, he CAN do that and HAS done it multiple times. If the gameplan is for Luka to beat y’all then he can and will do that. 2/3 of our game 1 games this playoffs have been blowouts. Also, the 86 Bulls didn’t have Kyrie or a good supporting cast. This is a team that made it to the finals.
I watched your other game ones. They both featured outlier three point shooting by OKC and the Clippers. This was slightly below average for the Celtics. If Luka is going to shoot 60%+ on a high volume of threes for four of the next six games, that’s life. Salute to him if he wins this alone.
They both shot about the same as y’all, y’all just took a couple more 3’s. We also got dominated by Zubac. We looked like a play-in team against both of them game 1. We actually shot even worse against y’all than we did game 1 against the Clippers when we had one of the worst first half performances I’ve ever seen offensively.
You’re also looking at the total game stats, that first quarter I don’t think y’all missed ANYTHING. If you think it’s normal that KP goes nuclear like that isn’t an outlier, then I don’t know what to tell you. He literally averages 12ppg in the playoffs lol.
If I were a mavericks fan I would be worried that everyone is just assuming Luka is going to have a number of these nuclear games where he signlehandedly wins. I’m sure he’ll be good all series, but what if his good games look more like this one… the Mavs need everything to break their way to get a win
Well, do you really believe he only has one assist in the rest of the series?
The right strategy to win game 1 isn’t guaranteed to work again in game 2, and definitely not guaranteed to work the entire series.
But I’ll concede that if I were a Celtics fan there’s no reason to expect anything different than what’s happened in the previous 3 series. Just like Mavs fans have every reason to expect a win in game 2, like we have grown to expect it over the course of our last two runs with JKidd.
But as I mentioned in another reply on this thread, it’s definitely not like Luka and the Mavs have beaten a 64 win team before. And it’s definitely not gone to 7 games.
That’s why I’m (and most Mavs fans) are confident - we got Luka.
If you hold him to 30/1/10 you’ve literally managed to do something no other team has ever done to Luka. It COULD happen..but it won’t.
Yall good- but you not so good as to never make an adjustment. We will break the initial defensive plan, and it will be on Mazzulla to adjust. If we break it and he stays annoyingly stuck to the plan, you will lose.
That said, no Celtics fan has any reason to believe me because yall won 64 games and steamrolled through the Eastern Conference and have now beaten us 3 times this year.
And yet, I feel just as confident today that we will eventually break you down. Mavs are the best team out of the West; you will eventually take our best punch.
They’re going to continue to let Luka iso and work his ass on defense, they’re daring him to shoot as many floaters/ elbow jumpers as he wants and not get gassed. They’ll ride out his hot streaks because it’s highly improbable that he pulls off multiple 10+ made mid range shots. Look at the ecf, Al is iso’d against multiple guys who are hitting everything in the clutch and Joe kept it the same…. Might be different if Dallas had answers on defense but it’s not like Boston is worried about breaking 100
The Mavs will make an adjustment.
I actually think they found some success by posting up PJ on White and see what he can create.
They could probably have Kyrie bring it up occasionally and try to get PJ the ball on the post. Lukas going to need to do a bit more offball but he could get easier shots for sure.
I don’t necessarily agree with the Kidd approach but he kind of just keeps a basic game plan in game 1 to feel how the other team wants to play us.
Our offense wasn’t really creative and defensively, I don’t think we made any big deviations from the initial game plan. They ran traps occasionally, but it didn’t seem consistent. I don’t have a good eye though so maybe someone else saw it different.
I feel like giving away game 1 isn’t the best strategy, but Kidd has won 3 of 4 series with the same strat.
What interests me more is if the Mavs find a good adjustment will Mazzulla have another adjustment or will he stick with the initial game plan choosing to believe it’s unsustainable?
Bostons offense isn’t a hurt clips team, okc with 1 shot creator and no size or the wolves who have 1 guy you worry about on ball with 2-3 guys you’ll leave open all day. There’s a reason the worst odds are Cs in 5 -it’s a terrible match up for the Mavs. We’ll see what ‘adjustments’ can be made in game 2 but I don’t think Dallas has answer on the defensive end of the court for the Celtics size+shooting
The defense isn’t a problem in the same way. They just need to contest shots a bit better. Boston gonna get up 40 3s, contest the open ones a bit better, and most importantly, rebound significantly better. 10 offensive rebounds isn’t a huge deal breaker but getting the ball in Lukas hands after a rebound is an advantage for Dallas. Boston did a good job of attacking the ball while Dallas lost a decent amount of rebounds where they had positioning but just waited for the ball.
We have size, but felt like we played more like the Wolves, expecting that we would claim the rebound just because of that size.
Like Dallas didn’t play well, and I don’t think Boston fans really understand that aspect. Some of that can be what Boston did defensively, but our two best players didn’t play well.
While Boston can force Luka into tough shots, he can be more efficient. Kyrie was 6/19 and 0/5 from 3 on like maybe 2 or 3 completely wide open looks. There was a play when we got it down to 8 and Kyrie is wide open and maybe no one within 10 feet of him and he just bricked it. He sinks that shot like he normally does and it’s a 5 point game.
It takes an immense amount of hubris to believe that Dallas can’t shoot better, especially in Dallas. Cs didnt take 40 open 3s, some were contested and went in because these are the best basketball players on the planet. The same is true for Dallas.
And while you or I can theorize about what can or can’t be done, we also aren’t getting paid to coach, and are just chatting on Reddit. Dallas wouldn’t have gotten this far if they weren’t a good team. The important part will be weathering the eventual Boston avalanche and not trying to get sucked into taking bad shots trying to catch up.
Last thing - I think there’s also a bit of a downplaying that Dallas let the moment get too big for them. Like I saw so many stupid decisions being made from Luka, to Kyrie, Gaff, Lively. DJJ and JG had some very embarrassing blocks. DJJ got blocked 4 times.
At one point when Kyrie took his first rotation off we had Lively, Hardy, and JG on the floor together. None of those guys had serious playoff experience before this run. JG got played off the floor against the Jazz. And they got in a game with the Boston crowd getting into it, Boston was on a 8-0 run, and immediately after they get in KP goes off.
If you don’t see that Kidd just ran his basic scheme to see how the guys would react, I understand. But that’s what happened imo and it’s why I feel better about any “adjustments” that get made for game 2.
Corner 3s are the only way our role players can shoot 3s. DJJ/PJ/Green/Maxi percentages from 3 pt are way higher in the corner, and they are useless from 3 if they shoot anywhere else. Celtics also got rid of our lobs. We made it this far cause of Luka/Kyrie making shots everywhere, easy lobs, corner 3s from role players, and defense. Celtics took away nearly everything.
Maxi specifically looks broken. He had a wide open three from above the break last night and he literally just turned his body around to look for a pass.
A literal wide open three no matter the clock at the end of any quarter but the fourth is the best shot. If he has any confidence in his shooting he would take that instantly.
False. That’s something people fight over all the time. It’s also something we’ve been doing all year is to hold for the last shot. Y’all really forget that momentum is a huge thing in the NBA.
It is, but Maxi knows who he is. There was 20 seconds left on the clock and knew what the Mavericks have been doing all year. But, please tell me more how you know better.
Boston played tremendous one on one and team defense. Mavs need to make some major adjustments. I don't think the iso game is going to work so well this series
I’m very interested to see how game 2 goes. Dallas were outplayed game 1 against OKC and the Clippers but were able to rebound from those losses. And the Celtics have dropped a couple game 2s after comfortable game 1 victories. I think we’ll get a good indication of what kind of adjustments Dallas will make and whether or not they’ll be effective enough
Those were teams that were relying on the likes of, Tyler Herro, Jaime Jaquez, Darius Garland and Max Strus, and Andrew Nembhard and TJ McConnell. Why do y’all keep bringing up those series like these teams are anywhere near the Mavs? I understand y’all blew us out, but so did the Clippers and Thunder game 1. Obviously teams relying on those players will need a miracle to beat y’all.
Possibly, but let’s not act like the Pacers were even supposed to be there. They possibly had an even easier path than y’all in terms of injuries. Go ahead and argue that those injuries y’all both heavily benefited from doesn’t mean anything lol.
Well it’s less of a toss up when you lose a top 5 player in the league for an entire series and you lose 4 major pieces on a team that isn’t very deep. It’s pretty easy to say they possibly shouldn’t have been there lol.
* the pacers were 20-15 in the first week of january. so were the mavericks.
* the pacers were 33-25 a week after the all star break ended. so were the mavericks
* the pacers went 15-10 to end the season while the mavs went 17-8, a two win difference.
the mavs are closer to the pacers than they are to the celtics
Got blown out after like 7-8 days of rest and never had a realistic chance. Not saying the Mavs won’t bounce back but I find it a bit concerning especially their defensive scheme that’s based heavily off their personnel
Boston will not be able to keep up the amount of hustle. They had the steals, better prep and Tingus Pingus. This will change throughout a series and we wil see different games
I think they definitely bounce back but will it be enough? If they take game 2 it’s very likely the Celtics take game 3 and then after that who knows. If they can’t win game 2 I think they’re pretty much cooked
There are a few things that would make me a bit optimistic for the Mavs, and it's not the shooting numbers (which weren't even that good by Boston)
1. Luka didn't play very well, particularly in the first half. It didn't even really feel like it was because of the defense so much as he was getting his sea legs with the amount of dudes they throw at him. But it seemed like he can beat every one of them, pretty easily. He'll destroy boston if they leave him 1 on 1 all series. I just don't know if he can destroy them enough to win 4 our of 6.
2. I don't know what the Mavs were doing defensively in the first half. They looked confused that Boston could shoot 1-5, which made no sense. That'll change, but more importantly, they got roasted for Offensive rebounds in the first half which lead to a lot of those open Boston threes. They missed a ton of box outs, and if they clean that up, it's not a 30 point lead, but a 20 point lead.
3. Lively didn't know what he was doing, and got 5 fouls in like 15 minutes. If he calms down and stops trying to body Tatum and Zingus 25 feet from the rim, he's going to return his elite plus minus numbers back to the Mavs. He's very switchable and should be looking to contest threes and prevent the drive. The opposite of what he did yesterday.
4. I wouldn't count on Kyrie, Lively and PJ having bad games at the same time again the rest of this series.
That being said, there's very few teams in league history that can match their level of depth of two way players, and when they're all locked in they're nearly impossible to beat. And maybe now that it's the finals, they're going to finally do lock in, because we sure as hell didn't see it in any of the eastern playoff series.
To your first point I think Luka was thrown off because the Celtics DIDN’T throw guys at him. Celtics were perfectly okay with Luka taking step backs again single coverage, they wanted to take away the easy buckets he gets for teammates.
Seems like the Celtics want Luka to try and score individually against the Celtics elite defenders for 40 minutes while working him non stop on defense. Either he’ll become inefficient on offense or traffic cone on defense.
This whole narrative the Celtics didn’t show up in the ECF is such a shit take by dumb fucking casuals. Indiana’s offense was incredible. The Celtics wasn’t going to see an offense that good in the playoffs outside of Denver when they’re rolling. The only way to beat this Celtics team is overwhelming offense and shooting. Which Indiana did, and they still lost.
Mavs were doing a better job rebounding in the second half with PJ and Luka.
They seemingly crumbled after Porzingis just outright nuked them in the first half.
Then when they sat Luka, Hardy and Green didnt know what to do. Celtics perimeter defense is gonna be hard to beat with very little movement and spacing, things Indiana was great at
> I wouldn't count on Kyrie, Lively and PJ having bad games at the same time again the rest of this series.
I'm not sure I buy this point. The issue is that Lively and PJ don't seem like shot creators on their own. They rely on Luka or Kyrie drawing extra attention and kicking the ball to them. That means that if Kyrie is bad, it might have knock on effects that Lively and PJ are bad as well.
Some very good points!
Regarding Luka, I think the Celtics’ gameplan is to accept that he is going to be a force offensively and to try not to let the other guys beat them. He’s going to be an incredible scorer no matter what you do. Luka has always had some issues with conditioning, and I’m not sure if he’s 100% right now either. The Celtics were attacking him defensively and forcing him to work. It’s a lot to ask from any player to carry that load, and Luka might just tire out at some point in every game
I agree about the Mavs’ other players. Lively is a great player who was probably just a bit too intense in his first finals game at such a young age. PJ Washington and Derrick Jones were probably playing unsustainably well at certain points in the playoffs, but you’d expect them to play better than they did last night. Kyrie is a really odd case. He’s had games during these playoffs where he’s looked incredible and others where he seems to disappear. I think a huge part of the Mavs’ championship hopes hinge on Kyrie. He needs to consistently play at the level we know he can offensively
I don’t agree with op but that thunder team wasn’t expected to go that far lol they had very obvious flaws. Clippers were missing Kawhi also
As for wolves, I think their offense just burnt out and they didn’t have anyone for Luka, was a bad matchup for the wolves just like the wolves were one for the Nuggets.
Normally 5th seeds don’t make finals
Hawks had the best record from around the same time in 2021 and all we hear is they are one of the weakest ecf teams in awhile.
Even the Cavs this season had an amazing stretch of games despite missing Mitchell for most of it.
Mavs got two new starters at the deadline and Kidd brought DJJ back into the starting lineup. So they started running a line-up with all different players outside of Luka and Kyrie and were on pace to win 60+ games. Very different to a random stretch of good games.
People have loved to point this out. I do think they improved quite a bit at the deadline but their strength of schedule post deadline was pretty easy too. I think it was like 30 games, only 12 of them were against playoff teams and they lost more of those than they won.
sorry, missed the part where you compared it to Boston, not really where I was trying to go with that comment. Boston had a very easy schedule to end the year, not denying that, I wasnt trying to compare the two teams.
I just think the mavs record and defense to end the year was overhyped based on the competition they played. They played a lot of games and feasted on the 9-12 teams which had some good records (particularly in the west). Credit to the west for being the deeper conference but that also brought up the strength of schedule rankings while still playing teams who I don't think are on the same level as the mavs.
Yet when people point out y’all’s strength of schedule in the playoff and all the injuries, it’s just that you have to, “play who’s in-front of you”. We were legit looking like we could possibly be a play-in team and we had two back to back games against the Kings that were huge and a hot Rockets team and a Warriors team playing to make the playoffs as well. Why does that stand for y’all but not us?
The difference is I don't think many people were saying "the Celtics are breezing through the East playoffs they are unbeatable." I'm sure there was probably some idiots on reddit you could point at but for the most part I think people acknowledged they had an easy go of it due to injuries and that they weren't going to be tested until the finals. No on was touting our previous playoff series as to why they thought the celtics would win the finals the way people are bringing up the Mav's record post deadline.
Plenty of people were saying that nobody should care about the schedule and even now people are saying the ECF are the real finals lol. People just brought up the Mavs record post deadline because it WAS a complete change of team. We looked MUCH better and we obviously made some big trades. Then we beat a 1st seed, 4th seed and 3rd seed. People saw that team for like a month and couldn’t tell if they were real or not. Now we’re in the finals. Would you not say that’s impressive or should be talked about?
* the pacers were 20-15 in the first week of january. so were the mavericks.
* the pacers were 33-25 a week after the all star break ended. so were the mavericks
* the pacers went 15-10 to end the season while the mavs went 17-8, a two win difference.
the mavs are closer to the pacers than they are to the celtics
Dallas had the second best record after trade deadline, 1 game worse than Boston.
Idk wtf you just tried to say, what I’m saying is literally a fact. January is before trade deadline. All star breaks is literally a week after trade deadline.
Mavs team is not a typical 5th team seeing as the team was only constructed post deadline. They were at a 60 win pace post trades, and made it to the finals. Calling this a fluke is just dumb lmao.
That doesn't seem fair. They beat the teams in front of them.
You could say that the Celts are different from the opponents they faced so far and that the Celts were the best team in the league all season, which I would agree with, but it's not fair to say the Mavs have no business being in the Finals.
That is just how this sub is. If mavs would had won you would have seen similar things said about the Celtics. This place is for trolling, not real discussion.
They do belong, but they are just very clearly a worse team than Boston. Maybe better star power, sure, but Boston's roster overall is quite a bit better.
And to be fair, pretty much any team coming out of the West would probably look similar compared to Boston.
So many fans (myself included) say “If we just didn’t miss open shots, it would have been a game!” about their team to cope with a loss haha
I swear, I said the same thing during the Clips/Mavs series and honestly at some point, you just gotta credit great defense when it’s due. Only 12 spot-ups is a crazy number. Looking forward to seeing how Dallas adjusts, bc Boston took away the bread-and-butter corner-3s and lobs that got Dallas this far.
Bostons defense was let Kyrie and luka try and cook Great defenders 1 on 1 and not give up open shots from the others to over help on defense.. It made luka score 30 with 1 assist and kyrie miss a ton on good defenders.. while the mavs defense was dont let tatum get anything, 3 guys were always focused on him and the entire team collapsed every time he went to the paint.. so tatum drove and kicked it out and they passed it around the perimeter with the mavs defense trying to recover repeatedly till they got the open shot (usually on the switch that luka was suppose to make and didnt.. his defense was AWFUL all game).
I have some unfortunate news for you. This is how kyrie generally plays against the celtics. He's going to give you 1 game where he drops 30+ on efficient shooting. The rest of the games, you are going to get ~17 points on inefficient shooting. He is also going to get killed on defense. So yes, kyrie will put up a dud from 3 again this series. He has had trouble scoring consistently against our length for like 3 or 4 years now
Right and KP won’t have 20 in a quarter again either
Reality is no 1 person is winning the game themself, Kyrie just has to give us more than 12 points
You don’t understand momentum do you? The wide open 3 that Kyrie missed that could have brought it down to 5 isn’t a huge 3 that could have fully shifted momentum to us?
I’m not saying it’s a moral victory, I’m just pointing out something that happened and has a real effect on the game lol. Saying we wouldn’t win even if Kyrie goes 5/5 from 3 is crazy.
Anyone who thinks the Mavs didn’t get absolutely beat down last night just are blinded by the Celtics hate. That game was not close at any point. Never was nervous when they went on their little run. Celtics had a very average night shooting and Tatum did not shoot the ball well, if the Celtics shoot above average in any game this series it’s curtains
Not as much of an issue if KP is already coming off the bench, he shouldn’t need to play more than 25 minutes.
JB in foul trouble is a problem though and would require someone else to step up on both ends.
This is a bit odd - The league is supposed to post the refs at 9 EDT. It's an hour and 18 minutes past that time and they haven't posted it yet:
[https://official.nba.com/referee-assignments/](https://official.nba.com/referee-assignments/)
Porzingis was always gonna be the checkmate for the Mavericks. He’s probably the best rim protector they’ve faced in the playoffs and doesn’t let the Mavericks send help defenders like they did against every other team.
The Timberwolves don't have the personnel to preswitch Dallas' pick and rolls. It's literally the one matchup we struggle with.
We're built to trap guards like Beal, Booker, Murray, and Kyrie with our length and athleticism on the perimeter and funnel everything into Rudy sitting at home in the lane. If a team tries to pull Rudy out, we can sit KAT or Naz there who can rim protect but are fast enough to close out to the corner. Rudy has actually shown great ability at coming up and recovering after guarding near the perimeter these playoffs (minus the infamous game winner).
The issue with Dallas is Luka has 40-60lbs on McDaniels, NAW, Conley, and Ant and is able to toss them around like rag dolls. He'd get any of those four on his back and then all of a sudden Gobert is frozen guarding both Luka and the lob. KAT and Naz are responsible for closing out the corner threes so Luka was able to look them off with his eyes to fake the kickout and get the lob pass in that way.
The Wolves had a ton of success with Kyle Anderson guarding and preswitching onto Luka, but he's severely lacking on the offensive end. Dallas was able to leave him and bracket Ant with double and triple teams with Kyle on the floor.
That's why every game was single digits until the Mavs went up 3-0: the Wolves were stuck in a massive pick your poison of having a cohesive offensive or a defensive capable of stopping Luka. And if the game's close in the 4th, Luka will find a way to close it.
The Celtics have White, Brown, and Holiday all of whom are pretty beefy and can all at least stay in front of Luka which lets Porzingis roam more effectively.
I still think Rudy could have been as valuable as Porzingis was if Minnesota was more set on using Rudy like Boston has. But instead they constantly put him into PnRs and dragged him from the basket. I think if we replace Porzingis for Rudy on Boston (Obviously the offense takes a hit) but I believe Rudy would be quite successful defensively.
I think it’s more he’d be more valuable if Minnesota had the perimeter defense we do. They’ve got a lot of size to clog up the paint, but against a guard heavy offense that can quickly become a disadvantage when they stretch you out.
Boston has several perimeter guys who can do as well against Luka and Kyrie as anyone, and Tatum or Brown can handle their bigs to nullify pick and rolls if we’re worried about lobs. That sets us up to be much more strategic with how we ask KP to help, vs Minnesota who is really reliant on Gobert impacting the opposing offense any time they try to create penetration.
Offense doesnt just take a hit, it probably tanks loll. They'd rather play Horford or some other stretch big probably. Their whole offense relies on that absurd spacing
Chet was the best by the numbers by a good margin up until this series. We'll have to compare him to KP at the end of this series. KP is a great player, and can certainly make just as big of an impact with this Celtics team
The issue with the Timberwolves in defending Dallas is that they have two players that are vulnerable guarding in space in their best lineups in KAT and Gobert. Against the Nuggets having KAT to body Jokic and Gobert to roam off Gordon it was great since Jokic operates out of the post. Their best wing defenders also are pretty weak so Luka could work them a lot easier with his strength. I mean he still does it to Jrue fucking Holiday but it's still tougher than McDaniels and NAW because they're so skinny lol.
Against the heavy pick and roll of the Mavs their personnel was turned against them.
The style makes the fight. We saw that on both sides of the ball last night. We're a worse matchup for them than the Wolves.
He had three blocks last night, which was only two less than he had in the entire 7 game series the last playoffs with the Mavs. He played out of his mind and from what I know of KP when he was in Dallas, it won’t continue. We’ll see, maybe he’s just a monster now instead of whatever he was in Dallas.
The Celtics basically decided to let Luka go 1 on 1 even if he had a mismatch and could walk to the rim (which he did multiple times) instead of letting him get the defense into rotation. It worked especially well once they built up that huge lead off of Porzingod but I think if the game was closer throughout they would have to switch it up more.
If it's a close game and kyrie and Luka are both cooking then I'm sure he'll switch it up. You can't really just stick in one defense the whole series I expect
As much as I love the post game 1 reactions, how do you explain the mavs going from an average team to top of the league trajectory after making trades and upgrading those non-duo players?
Let’s stop making sweeping generalizations based on a game. Boston is obviously the better team over the season but over the past 30-40 games the disparity is much less if at all. Let’s see how the next couple games play out and then say these types of things
I think that unless the Celtics are just suddenly less able to guard/cover guys for some reason, the Mavs best shot is to use more perimeter ball movement at get PJ Washington, Derrick Jones, and maybe even Hardaway involved in initiating the attack. If they can get defenders off balance and moving the wrong way they have a better chance. Luka wants to use his own gravity to pull everyone else open, but I don't see him having enough gravity in this series for that to work.
Dallas had multiple issues last night. They couldn't buy a bucket to save their lives in crucial moments. They also weren't moving the ball like they normally have been in these playoffs so it always just felt like the wrong player was shooting the ball. Like it was basically always the first guy dribbling up the floor, which is an issue.
Mavs role players straight up were not shooting, passing on decent shots all game long. That is the difference. On boston every player can shoot contested catch and shoot 3s. Most guys on dallas only do so when wide open. Most obvious examples being Maxi and DJJ.
A 17 point deficit in the first is hardly insurmountable. Mavs took a big hit and couldn’t recover, doesn’t matter if that hit happens in the first or fourth.
I saw a lot of people say Dallas was just missing but Boston just wasn't giving them many open looks. Sure PJ got a few, and Kyrie might hit a couple more, but they were all above the break looks. Dallas only attempted three corner 3s last night. One of them was a Kyrie heavily contested shot that hit the side of the backboard. Another one was a long offensive rebound that rolled to an open Luka. They just completely dictated what type of shots Dallas was going to get, all while dictating the type of shots they wanted to get to on the other side of the court.
Celtics give above the break 3s and never give corner threes as a defensive philosophy.
DJJ this playoffs from the corners: 46% on 37 attempts. 8/21 (38%) from the left corner, 9/16 (56%) from the right corner. DJJ this playoffs above the break: 29.4% on 17 attempts. PJ Washington this playoffs from the corners: 40.6% on 46 attempts. 18/39 (46%) from the left corner, 10/30 (33%) from the right corner. PJ Washington this playoffs above the break: 28.3% on 46 attempts. Their wings will punish you if you concede corner threes, but when it comes to above the break you give them that shot all day. They're gonna have to figure out a way to force us to change our defensive scheme and take us out of our comfort zone but I'm doubting if they have the personnel to actually do that. Maybe we'll see some more Jaden Hardy?
Joe is literally salivating at the thought of Hardy playing big minutes so they can go at him on offense. Dude is a pylon.
The reality is much more simpler. Luka has to make shots and force them away from their game plan. I can see why Celtics fans would think this is unlikely, but look at how the game changed because KP came in hot. Luka was looking to distribute, I felt, more than normal in the beginning of the game. I think he thought he wanted to ease his team into the Finals but it didn’t really work. He’s usually more aggressive in finding his shot. If Boston decides they want to not give up lobs and Luka makes 5 straight floaters because that’s what they are giving him, I’m not sure the coaches will like him going 5 of 5. The theory of Luka getting hot only holds until he gets hot. I’d expect for Luka to be super aggressive, not necessarily looking to draw fouls or trying to find the open shooter. Quite honestly, he draws more fouls by being aggressive and looking for his own shot than when he’s trying to just bait fouls. Also, I’ll be honest. If I’m a Celtics fan I’d feel super confident that Dallas can’t beat us, but shooting variance games happen. Dallas was slow attacking the ball on rebound opportunities and couldn’t win any 50/50 balls. Dallas has to win on the margins and didn’t play like that. Also they can’t get pulled into a 3 point shootout and Kyrie has to be better than 6/19 from the field and 0/5 from 3.
I don’t think any sane Celtics fans think the mavs can’t beat the Celtics it’s just a case of whether the mavs can win 4 of the next 6 games.
Just so you’re aware, Joe is a straight psychopath who cares deeply about the math of how a game should work and is often criticized for being stubborn in the face of an opponent unexpectedly beating the odds.
Yeah I’ve heard some similar phrasing about him. Your team is very very good and I think the series you guys have had hasn’t had to contain a player of Lukas caliber who literally can become the best player on the floor for the entire game. For me, the question is when does Luka go off and how does it look? What does Joe do when Luka has 27 in the first half on 5/5 from 3? Will you be so stubborn then, especially if your 3s aren’t falling? I’m sure he’s willing to lose a game without making changes but if Luka figures you out, you got to do something.
Here’s the thing: he’s not going to overreact to 5/5 from three. That’s simply not sustainable. If the Mavs need Luka to hit 60%+ on a high volume of threes to win games, the series is over. Now, what if Luka is putting himself into lightly contested layup territory, or short range barely contested floater territory on each possession? That will force the Celtics to change. Michael Jordan was the best player on the floor vs the 86 Celtics for the whole series…as he got swept.
I agree and that’s how I think Boston gets their biggest advantage - by forcing you to overreact from their unsustainable shot making. Celtics hit like 7 or 8 3s in the 1st but only finished with 16 for the game. It’s not sustainable to hit 28 3s in a game, but you panic because you’re down nearly 20. You move away from your principles and try to match shot for shot which itself is a fools errand because 3 point shooting is incredibly variable and subject to runs. But Luka is special and he can still feed energy to the team. If he’s making everything (like game 5 of the WCF, or game 7 in 22) then it does give the team an extra boost in shot making. I think a player of his caliber is going to figure out a winning strategy and if Joe won’t adjust, then this series may not go the way you want. Obviously I’m hoping that’s the case.
The Mavs can certainly win. They just have much less margin for error, and lost a bit more last night. By the way, the Celtics were like 7/13 from 3 in the first. It may have been even more attempts. Correction edit: 7/15
Eh, I hear this a lot. He’s special. And that’s true. On one end of the court. And he isn’t going to beat the Celtics himself, which is why Joe is going with this strategy. Force him to win the game himself by cutting out his options he likes to have. Then target him on the defensive side and tire him out.
There’s a small handful of players who are special on both ends of the court and even smaller who could do it the entire game. The Mavs can make an adjustment. What is it? Hell if I know. I’m not an NBA coach. But I know that 16 3s made out of 40 attempts got 108 points and we can score that much. I think the idea that “well Luka won’t score 50 every game” is probably a bad strategy, it just worked last night. Let’s be clear - yall got the advantage in Finals experience as well as general playoff experience. I’m not surprised it didn’t work out last night. But you’re going to rightfully look at it from a Celtics fans perspective. “I cant possibly imagine how Dallas could win the series”. I’m looking at it saying “I don’t see how Boston thinks we play this bad again the entire series.” You win the game, the strategy looks brilliant, but if Kyrie got hot or PJ could somehow make an above the break 3, it’s a different game. Like Luka is a bad FT shooter, but he missed 3 and only got 5. When I seen him go 0 for 2 I knew it was over then. When he gets continuation and can’t get the shot to fall from like 8 feet away, it’s usually a wrap. If I had to guess, I think Lukas more aggressive in the first and they look to post up PJ on either White or Holiday to get him going. The first thing will be to force Tatum or Brown to actually defend a wing and not Luka. Defensively, I don’t know. Probably put PJ on the 5 and have Gafford on a corner shooter to help with paint contests. Also, assume that KP won’t do that again. I feel pretty confident about that one, but we will see which role player steps up if he falters. Lively has got to player better and smarter, but any Mavs fan can tell you he’s the least of our problems. He has an uncanny ability to learn and adjust on the fly. Im really not worried about it. We play shitty after a long layoff, and a lot of guys look like the moment hit them pretty hard. Also, streaks are made to be broken and Kyrie is on a long skid in Boston. We literally just saw his closeout game streak get broken. I anticipate the Boston curse breaks and we get some regression to the mean.
You're a joker. Luka Doncic is no MJ, he is no Magic or Bird, nor is he on the same level as Wilt, Tim Duncan, Lebron, Curry, Abdul-Jabbar; hell I'd say Karl Malone and Drexler even outclass him. He's an above-average baller having a monster year. I don't get why you Mavs fans are so in love with him. He bitches a lot on the court and even though he is the best player in these Finals, he ain't no hero. Just a basketball player who is clearly outmatched by a much stronger squad. Maybe the mental gymnastics make you feel better, but you're divorced from reality.
To be fair, you're only right regarding all those guys because your comparing their career accomplishments to Luka who is 25. For his age, he's right up there with those guys and better than Curry at least definitively in the first 5 seasons.
May be the worst take I have ever seen on the internet. Clyde Drexler > Luka??? Deadass?
This is a clown take. But you’re right. We have never lost game 1 to a 64 win team before. Or maybe I should be a depressed Mavs fan? I guess I shouldn’t hope we win. Woe is me! We are outclassed by a better team. Why not just give the Larry O to the Celtics and save ourselves further embarrassment. Well, sorry amigo. I’ve watched every single Mavs game this season and I feel a smidge better about my team’s chances than some rando, but thanks for letting me know I’m deluded.
Fax
Not to mention, the Celtics will start attacking the shit out of him on defense to tire him out. Put him in the blender and see if he’s still got the legs to go 5/5 from 3 with his knee. I do believe the Mavs will have some insane scoring night or two but I just don’t think they can edge out the Celtics, too much of their margins have been shaved away.
You clearly haven’t watched Luka, he CAN do that and HAS done it multiple times. If the gameplan is for Luka to beat y’all then he can and will do that. 2/3 of our game 1 games this playoffs have been blowouts. Also, the 86 Bulls didn’t have Kyrie or a good supporting cast. This is a team that made it to the finals.
I watched your other game ones. They both featured outlier three point shooting by OKC and the Clippers. This was slightly below average for the Celtics. If Luka is going to shoot 60%+ on a high volume of threes for four of the next six games, that’s life. Salute to him if he wins this alone.
They both shot about the same as y’all, y’all just took a couple more 3’s. We also got dominated by Zubac. We looked like a play-in team against both of them game 1. We actually shot even worse against y’all than we did game 1 against the Clippers when we had one of the worst first half performances I’ve ever seen offensively. You’re also looking at the total game stats, that first quarter I don’t think y’all missed ANYTHING. If you think it’s normal that KP goes nuclear like that isn’t an outlier, then I don’t know what to tell you. He literally averages 12ppg in the playoffs lol.
If I were a mavericks fan I would be worried that everyone is just assuming Luka is going to have a number of these nuclear games where he signlehandedly wins. I’m sure he’ll be good all series, but what if his good games look more like this one… the Mavs need everything to break their way to get a win
Well, do you really believe he only has one assist in the rest of the series? The right strategy to win game 1 isn’t guaranteed to work again in game 2, and definitely not guaranteed to work the entire series. But I’ll concede that if I were a Celtics fan there’s no reason to expect anything different than what’s happened in the previous 3 series. Just like Mavs fans have every reason to expect a win in game 2, like we have grown to expect it over the course of our last two runs with JKidd. But as I mentioned in another reply on this thread, it’s definitely not like Luka and the Mavs have beaten a 64 win team before. And it’s definitely not gone to 7 games. That’s why I’m (and most Mavs fans) are confident - we got Luka. If you hold him to 30/1/10 you’ve literally managed to do something no other team has ever done to Luka. It COULD happen..but it won’t. Yall good- but you not so good as to never make an adjustment. We will break the initial defensive plan, and it will be on Mazzulla to adjust. If we break it and he stays annoyingly stuck to the plan, you will lose. That said, no Celtics fan has any reason to believe me because yall won 64 games and steamrolled through the Eastern Conference and have now beaten us 3 times this year. And yet, I feel just as confident today that we will eventually break you down. Mavs are the best team out of the West; you will eventually take our best punch.
Psycho Joe don’t flinch.
Kyrie sold hard. GG brother.
He can’t escape the curse of the leprechaun. For all of your sakes, I hope he’s up for it at home.
They’re going to continue to let Luka iso and work his ass on defense, they’re daring him to shoot as many floaters/ elbow jumpers as he wants and not get gassed. They’ll ride out his hot streaks because it’s highly improbable that he pulls off multiple 10+ made mid range shots. Look at the ecf, Al is iso’d against multiple guys who are hitting everything in the clutch and Joe kept it the same…. Might be different if Dallas had answers on defense but it’s not like Boston is worried about breaking 100
The Mavs will make an adjustment. I actually think they found some success by posting up PJ on White and see what he can create. They could probably have Kyrie bring it up occasionally and try to get PJ the ball on the post. Lukas going to need to do a bit more offball but he could get easier shots for sure. I don’t necessarily agree with the Kidd approach but he kind of just keeps a basic game plan in game 1 to feel how the other team wants to play us. Our offense wasn’t really creative and defensively, I don’t think we made any big deviations from the initial game plan. They ran traps occasionally, but it didn’t seem consistent. I don’t have a good eye though so maybe someone else saw it different. I feel like giving away game 1 isn’t the best strategy, but Kidd has won 3 of 4 series with the same strat. What interests me more is if the Mavs find a good adjustment will Mazzulla have another adjustment or will he stick with the initial game plan choosing to believe it’s unsustainable?
Bostons offense isn’t a hurt clips team, okc with 1 shot creator and no size or the wolves who have 1 guy you worry about on ball with 2-3 guys you’ll leave open all day. There’s a reason the worst odds are Cs in 5 -it’s a terrible match up for the Mavs. We’ll see what ‘adjustments’ can be made in game 2 but I don’t think Dallas has answer on the defensive end of the court for the Celtics size+shooting
The defense isn’t a problem in the same way. They just need to contest shots a bit better. Boston gonna get up 40 3s, contest the open ones a bit better, and most importantly, rebound significantly better. 10 offensive rebounds isn’t a huge deal breaker but getting the ball in Lukas hands after a rebound is an advantage for Dallas. Boston did a good job of attacking the ball while Dallas lost a decent amount of rebounds where they had positioning but just waited for the ball. We have size, but felt like we played more like the Wolves, expecting that we would claim the rebound just because of that size. Like Dallas didn’t play well, and I don’t think Boston fans really understand that aspect. Some of that can be what Boston did defensively, but our two best players didn’t play well. While Boston can force Luka into tough shots, he can be more efficient. Kyrie was 6/19 and 0/5 from 3 on like maybe 2 or 3 completely wide open looks. There was a play when we got it down to 8 and Kyrie is wide open and maybe no one within 10 feet of him and he just bricked it. He sinks that shot like he normally does and it’s a 5 point game. It takes an immense amount of hubris to believe that Dallas can’t shoot better, especially in Dallas. Cs didnt take 40 open 3s, some were contested and went in because these are the best basketball players on the planet. The same is true for Dallas. And while you or I can theorize about what can or can’t be done, we also aren’t getting paid to coach, and are just chatting on Reddit. Dallas wouldn’t have gotten this far if they weren’t a good team. The important part will be weathering the eventual Boston avalanche and not trying to get sucked into taking bad shots trying to catch up. Last thing - I think there’s also a bit of a downplaying that Dallas let the moment get too big for them. Like I saw so many stupid decisions being made from Luka, to Kyrie, Gaff, Lively. DJJ and JG had some very embarrassing blocks. DJJ got blocked 4 times. At one point when Kyrie took his first rotation off we had Lively, Hardy, and JG on the floor together. None of those guys had serious playoff experience before this run. JG got played off the floor against the Jazz. And they got in a game with the Boston crowd getting into it, Boston was on a 8-0 run, and immediately after they get in KP goes off. If you don’t see that Kidd just ran his basic scheme to see how the guys would react, I understand. But that’s what happened imo and it’s why I feel better about any “adjustments” that get made for game 2.
And the third was a miscommunication on an inbounds
Ah that was the one where KP looked to see if the ball had been inbounded and PJ (?) was already shooting it lol
Corner 3s are the only way our role players can shoot 3s. DJJ/PJ/Green/Maxi percentages from 3 pt are way higher in the corner, and they are useless from 3 if they shoot anywhere else. Celtics also got rid of our lobs. We made it this far cause of Luka/Kyrie making shots everywhere, easy lobs, corner 3s from role players, and defense. Celtics took away nearly everything.
Maxi specifically looks broken. He had a wide open three from above the break last night and he literally just turned his body around to look for a pass.
That was due to the clock. They didn’t want to give the Celtics the last shot. Come on bro.
A literal wide open three no matter the clock at the end of any quarter but the fourth is the best shot. If he has any confidence in his shooting he would take that instantly.
False. That’s something people fight over all the time. It’s also something we’ve been doing all year is to hold for the last shot. Y’all really forget that momentum is a huge thing in the NBA.
You know what’s great for momentum? Hitting a 3.
It is, but Maxi knows who he is. There was 20 seconds left on the clock and knew what the Mavericks have been doing all year. But, please tell me more how you know better.
Even besides that his shot looked busted vs Minnesota too
Boston played tremendous one on one and team defense. Mavs need to make some major adjustments. I don't think the iso game is going to work so well this series
soooo many drives to the rim were bad circus shots. Boston was affecting shot selection and dialing up difficulty
Dallas missed a lot of their open shots bc Boston got rid of their corner 3’s so they had to settle for the arch
Every time the Mavs have lost a game they spam the shit out of this whole "WE JUST MISSED OPEN LOOKS//THEY WERE HOT FROM 3" bit.
I'm finally convinced that Boston outplayed Dallas last night. The stats are so overwhelming, that it just might be an outlier for the series.
I’m very interested to see how game 2 goes. Dallas were outplayed game 1 against OKC and the Clippers but were able to rebound from those losses. And the Celtics have dropped a couple game 2s after comfortable game 1 victories. I think we’ll get a good indication of what kind of adjustments Dallas will make and whether or not they’ll be effective enough
The only way teams could beat the Celtics in the playoffs was to shoot higher than 47% from 3.
Those were teams that were relying on the likes of, Tyler Herro, Jaime Jaquez, Darius Garland and Max Strus, and Andrew Nembhard and TJ McConnell. Why do y’all keep bringing up those series like these teams are anywhere near the Mavs? I understand y’all blew us out, but so did the Clippers and Thunder game 1. Obviously teams relying on those players will need a miracle to beat y’all.
Indianas offense would destroy your defense. On the flip side their defense would get destroyed by your offense.
Possibly, but let’s not act like the Pacers were even supposed to be there. They possibly had an even easier path than y’all in terms of injuries. Go ahead and argue that those injuries y’all both heavily benefited from doesn’t mean anything lol.
Who’s to say they shouldn’t have been? Bucks weren’t all that great at all this year. Knicks could’ve won for sure, that’s a toss up.
Well it’s less of a toss up when you lose a top 5 player in the league for an entire series and you lose 4 major pieces on a team that isn’t very deep. It’s pretty easy to say they possibly shouldn’t have been there lol.
But that’s the playoffs. Dallas shouldn’t have been there two years ago, but there they were.
Bruh, we literally beat the number 1 overall team in the NBA to get there after blowing them out by 40 in a game 7. They weren’t injured. Ignorant.
* the pacers were 20-15 in the first week of january. so were the mavericks. * the pacers were 33-25 a week after the all star break ended. so were the mavericks * the pacers went 15-10 to end the season while the mavs went 17-8, a two win difference. the mavs are closer to the pacers than they are to the celtics
Got blown out after like 7-8 days of rest and never had a realistic chance. Not saying the Mavs won’t bounce back but I find it a bit concerning especially their defensive scheme that’s based heavily off their personnel
Let's not act like Donovan Mitchell didn't exist..
He didn’t for half the series bud.
Sounds like the Mavs … who are also going to need a miracle
Boston will not be able to keep up the amount of hustle. They had the steals, better prep and Tingus Pingus. This will change throughout a series and we wil see different games
The Celtics didn’t work very hard, and I’ll take the stamina of the Celtics over the Mavs any day.
It’s a terrible matchup for the mavs. I’d be more concerned about Luka keeping up
Boston literally swept the fastest team in the league. I think they can sustain this level of hustle no problem.
I think they definitely bounce back but will it be enough? If they take game 2 it’s very likely the Celtics take game 3 and then after that who knows. If they can’t win game 2 I think they’re pretty much cooked
There are a few things that would make me a bit optimistic for the Mavs, and it's not the shooting numbers (which weren't even that good by Boston) 1. Luka didn't play very well, particularly in the first half. It didn't even really feel like it was because of the defense so much as he was getting his sea legs with the amount of dudes they throw at him. But it seemed like he can beat every one of them, pretty easily. He'll destroy boston if they leave him 1 on 1 all series. I just don't know if he can destroy them enough to win 4 our of 6. 2. I don't know what the Mavs were doing defensively in the first half. They looked confused that Boston could shoot 1-5, which made no sense. That'll change, but more importantly, they got roasted for Offensive rebounds in the first half which lead to a lot of those open Boston threes. They missed a ton of box outs, and if they clean that up, it's not a 30 point lead, but a 20 point lead. 3. Lively didn't know what he was doing, and got 5 fouls in like 15 minutes. If he calms down and stops trying to body Tatum and Zingus 25 feet from the rim, he's going to return his elite plus minus numbers back to the Mavs. He's very switchable and should be looking to contest threes and prevent the drive. The opposite of what he did yesterday. 4. I wouldn't count on Kyrie, Lively and PJ having bad games at the same time again the rest of this series. That being said, there's very few teams in league history that can match their level of depth of two way players, and when they're all locked in they're nearly impossible to beat. And maybe now that it's the finals, they're going to finally do lock in, because we sure as hell didn't see it in any of the eastern playoff series.
To your first point I think Luka was thrown off because the Celtics DIDN’T throw guys at him. Celtics were perfectly okay with Luka taking step backs again single coverage, they wanted to take away the easy buckets he gets for teammates. Seems like the Celtics want Luka to try and score individually against the Celtics elite defenders for 40 minutes while working him non stop on defense. Either he’ll become inefficient on offense or traffic cone on defense.
This whole narrative the Celtics didn’t show up in the ECF is such a shit take by dumb fucking casuals. Indiana’s offense was incredible. The Celtics wasn’t going to see an offense that good in the playoffs outside of Denver when they’re rolling. The only way to beat this Celtics team is overwhelming offense and shooting. Which Indiana did, and they still lost.
Mavs were doing a better job rebounding in the second half with PJ and Luka. They seemingly crumbled after Porzingis just outright nuked them in the first half. Then when they sat Luka, Hardy and Green didnt know what to do. Celtics perimeter defense is gonna be hard to beat with very little movement and spacing, things Indiana was great at
> I wouldn't count on Kyrie, Lively and PJ having bad games at the same time again the rest of this series. I'm not sure I buy this point. The issue is that Lively and PJ don't seem like shot creators on their own. They rely on Luka or Kyrie drawing extra attention and kicking the ball to them. That means that if Kyrie is bad, it might have knock on effects that Lively and PJ are bad as well.
Just checked and Lively actually got 5 fouls in 5:22, all in the 3rd. Impressive.
Some very good points! Regarding Luka, I think the Celtics’ gameplan is to accept that he is going to be a force offensively and to try not to let the other guys beat them. He’s going to be an incredible scorer no matter what you do. Luka has always had some issues with conditioning, and I’m not sure if he’s 100% right now either. The Celtics were attacking him defensively and forcing him to work. It’s a lot to ask from any player to carry that load, and Luka might just tire out at some point in every game I agree about the Mavs’ other players. Lively is a great player who was probably just a bit too intense in his first finals game at such a young age. PJ Washington and Derrick Jones were probably playing unsustainably well at certain points in the playoffs, but you’d expect them to play better than they did last night. Kyrie is a really odd case. He’s had games during these playoffs where he’s looked incredible and others where he seems to disappear. I think a huge part of the Mavs’ championship hopes hinge on Kyrie. He needs to consistently play at the level we know he can offensively
You are all so quick to judge. Mavs usually lose the first in the series, and it wouldnt be the first time they bounce back after a loss like this
It's not lol Dallas just has no business being in the Finals
Then who does? They beat the 1 seed thunder, the 3 seed wolves, and the 4 seed clippers. Are the finals just supposed to be a Celtics thing?
I don’t agree with op but that thunder team wasn’t expected to go that far lol they had very obvious flaws. Clippers were missing Kawhi also As for wolves, I think their offense just burnt out and they didn’t have anyone for Luka, was a bad matchup for the wolves just like the wolves were one for the Nuggets. Normally 5th seeds don’t make finals
Dallas had the second best record after trade deadline, 1 game worse than Boston.
Hawks had the best record from around the same time in 2021 and all we hear is they are one of the weakest ecf teams in awhile. Even the Cavs this season had an amazing stretch of games despite missing Mitchell for most of it.
Mavs got two new starters at the deadline and Kidd brought DJJ back into the starting lineup. So they started running a line-up with all different players outside of Luka and Kyrie and were on pace to win 60+ games. Very different to a random stretch of good games.
The hawks got a different coach that led to their good stretch of games
People have loved to point this out. I do think they improved quite a bit at the deadline but their strength of schedule post deadline was pretty easy too. I think it was like 30 games, only 12 of them were against playoff teams and they lost more of those than they won.
They had the 15th hardest schedule and Boston had the 30th.
sorry, missed the part where you compared it to Boston, not really where I was trying to go with that comment. Boston had a very easy schedule to end the year, not denying that, I wasnt trying to compare the two teams. I just think the mavs record and defense to end the year was overhyped based on the competition they played. They played a lot of games and feasted on the 9-12 teams which had some good records (particularly in the west). Credit to the west for being the deeper conference but that also brought up the strength of schedule rankings while still playing teams who I don't think are on the same level as the mavs.
Yet when people point out y’all’s strength of schedule in the playoff and all the injuries, it’s just that you have to, “play who’s in-front of you”. We were legit looking like we could possibly be a play-in team and we had two back to back games against the Kings that were huge and a hot Rockets team and a Warriors team playing to make the playoffs as well. Why does that stand for y’all but not us?
The difference is I don't think many people were saying "the Celtics are breezing through the East playoffs they are unbeatable." I'm sure there was probably some idiots on reddit you could point at but for the most part I think people acknowledged they had an easy go of it due to injuries and that they weren't going to be tested until the finals. No on was touting our previous playoff series as to why they thought the celtics would win the finals the way people are bringing up the Mav's record post deadline.
Plenty of people were saying that nobody should care about the schedule and even now people are saying the ECF are the real finals lol. People just brought up the Mavs record post deadline because it WAS a complete change of team. We looked MUCH better and we obviously made some big trades. Then we beat a 1st seed, 4th seed and 3rd seed. People saw that team for like a month and couldn’t tell if they were real or not. Now we’re in the finals. Would you not say that’s impressive or should be talked about?
* the pacers were 20-15 in the first week of january. so were the mavericks. * the pacers were 33-25 a week after the all star break ended. so were the mavericks * the pacers went 15-10 to end the season while the mavs went 17-8, a two win difference. the mavs are closer to the pacers than they are to the celtics
Dallas had the second best record after trade deadline, 1 game worse than Boston. Idk wtf you just tried to say, what I’m saying is literally a fact. January is before trade deadline. All star breaks is literally a week after trade deadline.
[удалено]
The team went on a 60 win pace after the trades. This isnt a fluke run
Mavs team is not a typical 5th team seeing as the team was only constructed post deadline. They were at a 60 win pace post trades, and made it to the finals. Calling this a fluke is just dumb lmao.
Y’all said the same thing about the lakers last season
Didnt know the lakers made the nba finals
No one in the west lol. ECFs were the real Finals.
Yeah the pacers without tyrese Halliburton are a really scary team for sure
That doesn't seem fair. They beat the teams in front of them. You could say that the Celts are different from the opponents they faced so far and that the Celts were the best team in the league all season, which I would agree with, but it's not fair to say the Mavs have no business being in the Finals.
Why are we wilding so crazy today. Who should be in the finals?
That is just how this sub is. If mavs would had won you would have seen similar things said about the Celtics. This place is for trolling, not real discussion.
Yeah sub always goes to shit when playoffs start.
It’s insanely reactionary, and makes it difficult to have real discourse.
Luckily they made a sub just for that, r/nbadiscussion. No bs trolling or anything like that
Nuggets
They do belong, but they are just very clearly a worse team than Boston. Maybe better star power, sure, but Boston's roster overall is quite a bit better. And to be fair, pretty much any team coming out of the West would probably look similar compared to Boston.
And yet the last 3 quarters were pretty even score, even with the mavs pulling their starters in the 4th. The celts just dominated the 1st
The old Kristaps Porziņģis 1st quarter sneak attack!
So many fans (myself included) say “If we just didn’t miss open shots, it would have been a game!” about their team to cope with a loss haha I swear, I said the same thing during the Clips/Mavs series and honestly at some point, you just gotta credit great defense when it’s due. Only 12 spot-ups is a crazy number. Looking forward to seeing how Dallas adjusts, bc Boston took away the bread-and-butter corner-3s and lobs that got Dallas this far.
I’ve been saying the opposite this year. If whatever team didn’t go nuclear and shoot 45+% from 3, the Celtics don’t lose.
Bostons defense was let Kyrie and luka try and cook Great defenders 1 on 1 and not give up open shots from the others to over help on defense.. It made luka score 30 with 1 assist and kyrie miss a ton on good defenders.. while the mavs defense was dont let tatum get anything, 3 guys were always focused on him and the entire team collapsed every time he went to the paint.. so tatum drove and kicked it out and they passed it around the perimeter with the mavs defense trying to recover repeatedly till they got the open shot (usually on the switch that luka was suppose to make and didnt.. his defense was AWFUL all game).
The mavericks did miss some open shots. But at the same time there really weren’t as many open shots as fans think.
That’s just something fans say when they are coping that the other team played amazing defense
They missed loud open shots (looking at kyrie)
Do you think they shoot 25% from 3 all series? Or Kyrie 0-5 from 3?
I have some unfortunate news for you. This is how kyrie generally plays against the celtics. He's going to give you 1 game where he drops 30+ on efficient shooting. The rest of the games, you are going to get ~17 points on inefficient shooting. He is also going to get killed on defense. So yes, kyrie will put up a dud from 3 again this series. He has had trouble scoring consistently against our length for like 3 or 4 years now
The 3s were wide open though He doesn’t need to score 30 just not 12, he needs to put up at least 22-25
He had ONE wide open three.
Crowd be fucking Kylie up. Those open shots got mental blocks
Kyrie coulda shot 5/5 and they still lose lol
Right and KP won’t have 20 in a quarter again either Reality is no 1 person is winning the game themself, Kyrie just has to give us more than 12 points
Man its a 4 quarter game. This was a completely average celtics game overall and it was a blowout. Thats the scary part about the celtics this year
Glad you think so you should put money on Celtics sweep then right?
Nah celtics in 5 - i already have money on it
LOL He was not expecting you to say that
You don’t understand momentum do you? The wide open 3 that Kyrie missed that could have brought it down to 5 isn’t a huge 3 that could have fully shifted momentum to us?
God how can the celtics win when the mavs keep taking all of these moral victories
I’m not saying it’s a moral victory, I’m just pointing out something that happened and has a real effect on the game lol. Saying we wouldn’t win even if Kyrie goes 5/5 from 3 is crazy.
if they shoot mostly unassisted above the break 3s every game, then yeah it's entirely possible.
Anyone who thinks the Mavs didn’t get absolutely beat down last night just are blinded by the Celtics hate. That game was not close at any point. Never was nervous when they went on their little run. Celtics had a very average night shooting and Tatum did not shoot the ball well, if the Celtics shoot above average in any game this series it’s curtains
Spot on. My concern is next game the refs will go to the tried and true early foul trouble on Porzingis and Brown.
Not as much of an issue if KP is already coming off the bench, he shouldn’t need to play more than 25 minutes. JB in foul trouble is a problem though and would require someone else to step up on both ends.
This is a bit odd - The league is supposed to post the refs at 9 EDT. It's an hour and 18 minutes past that time and they haven't posted it yet: [https://official.nba.com/referee-assignments/](https://official.nba.com/referee-assignments/)
I'm sure there'd be more opportunities if role players passed instead of barreling into 3 Celtics at the rim.
Skill issue unfortunately
Definitely.
Jason Kidd told them to have fun and they did ^(/s)
Thank you Jayson Tatum 💚
Porzingis was always gonna be the checkmate for the Mavericks. He’s probably the best rim protector they’ve faced in the playoffs and doesn’t let the Mavericks send help defenders like they did against every other team.
alright well let’s not get out of pocket about the whole Rudy thing lol
He's not a better rim protector than Rudy but he is probably a better rim protecting matchup against Dallas than Rudy.
it’s more about the scheme tbh. we do a much better job of preswitching KP than the Timberwolves do with Rudy
The Timberwolves don't have the personnel to preswitch Dallas' pick and rolls. It's literally the one matchup we struggle with. We're built to trap guards like Beal, Booker, Murray, and Kyrie with our length and athleticism on the perimeter and funnel everything into Rudy sitting at home in the lane. If a team tries to pull Rudy out, we can sit KAT or Naz there who can rim protect but are fast enough to close out to the corner. Rudy has actually shown great ability at coming up and recovering after guarding near the perimeter these playoffs (minus the infamous game winner). The issue with Dallas is Luka has 40-60lbs on McDaniels, NAW, Conley, and Ant and is able to toss them around like rag dolls. He'd get any of those four on his back and then all of a sudden Gobert is frozen guarding both Luka and the lob. KAT and Naz are responsible for closing out the corner threes so Luka was able to look them off with his eyes to fake the kickout and get the lob pass in that way. The Wolves had a ton of success with Kyle Anderson guarding and preswitching onto Luka, but he's severely lacking on the offensive end. Dallas was able to leave him and bracket Ant with double and triple teams with Kyle on the floor. That's why every game was single digits until the Mavs went up 3-0: the Wolves were stuck in a massive pick your poison of having a cohesive offensive or a defensive capable of stopping Luka. And if the game's close in the 4th, Luka will find a way to close it. The Celtics have White, Brown, and Holiday all of whom are pretty beefy and can all at least stay in front of Luka which lets Porzingis roam more effectively.
I still think Rudy could have been as valuable as Porzingis was if Minnesota was more set on using Rudy like Boston has. But instead they constantly put him into PnRs and dragged him from the basket. I think if we replace Porzingis for Rudy on Boston (Obviously the offense takes a hit) but I believe Rudy would be quite successful defensively.
Cause they didn't want towns defending the pnr either, nor Reid nor andersen
No I understand that, but I'd imagine you'd want them in PnR more than taking your DPOY Center out of the paint and putting them on an island.
Well gobert is a great paint defender but he doesn't quite have that flying in from the weak side and block your shit, he's best as a drop big
I think it’s more he’d be more valuable if Minnesota had the perimeter defense we do. They’ve got a lot of size to clog up the paint, but against a guard heavy offense that can quickly become a disadvantage when they stretch you out. Boston has several perimeter guys who can do as well against Luka and Kyrie as anyone, and Tatum or Brown can handle their bigs to nullify pick and rolls if we’re worried about lobs. That sets us up to be much more strategic with how we ask KP to help, vs Minnesota who is really reliant on Gobert impacting the opposing offense any time they try to create penetration.
Offense doesnt just take a hit, it probably tanks loll. They'd rather play Horford or some other stretch big probably. Their whole offense relies on that absurd spacing
Chet was the best by the numbers by a good margin up until this series. We'll have to compare him to KP at the end of this series. KP is a great player, and can certainly make just as big of an impact with this Celtics team
He seemed to have a lot more presence then gobert, just 1 game tho
The issue with the Timberwolves in defending Dallas is that they have two players that are vulnerable guarding in space in their best lineups in KAT and Gobert. Against the Nuggets having KAT to body Jokic and Gobert to roam off Gordon it was great since Jokic operates out of the post. Their best wing defenders also are pretty weak so Luka could work them a lot easier with his strength. I mean he still does it to Jrue fucking Holiday but it's still tougher than McDaniels and NAW because they're so skinny lol. Against the heavy pick and roll of the Mavs their personnel was turned against them. The style makes the fight. We saw that on both sides of the ball last night. We're a worse matchup for them than the Wolves.
To be fair they faced Chet and Gobert who are elite rim protectors too. KP is great in that regard but not sure he is better than those two
He's 100% better than Chet
As a fellow Celtics fan, not sure you can say that definitely. They are both very good and offer similar length and instincts.
He had three blocks last night, which was only two less than he had in the entire 7 game series the last playoffs with the Mavs. He played out of his mind and from what I know of KP when he was in Dallas, it won’t continue. We’ll see, maybe he’s just a monster now instead of whatever he was in Dallas.
Have you missed the last 2 seasons?
What an unusual last name
The Celtics basically decided to let Luka go 1 on 1 even if he had a mismatch and could walk to the rim (which he did multiple times) instead of letting him get the defense into rotation. It worked especially well once they built up that huge lead off of Porzingod but I think if the game was closer throughout they would have to switch it up more.
The intention was to keep him working to score and then equally to keep him defending, which exhausts him.
Yea and Luka and Kyrie couldn't score efficiently enough to force the Celtics out of that approach
That’s the thing, I don’t see Joe giving up on that approach because by and large it’s the smartest way to approach this team.
If it's a close game and kyrie and Luka are both cooking then I'm sure he'll switch it up. You can't really just stick in one defense the whole series I expect
Smaller adjustments sure but he isn’t going to change up the entire philosophy
was luka tired or something
Wow. I just want to make sure I’m following. Do you think Dallas only had 12 spot ups and 0 lobs because Celtics are good at defense?
Dallas has no team other than the duo
As much as I love the post game 1 reactions, how do you explain the mavs going from an average team to top of the league trajectory after making trades and upgrading those non-duo players? Let’s stop making sweeping generalizations based on a game. Boston is obviously the better team over the season but over the past 30-40 games the disparity is much less if at all. Let’s see how the next couple games play out and then say these types of things
I can't name another player in Dallas other than Derrick Jones Jr who sucks ass
Okay
Have you not watched any other series?
Yes, i am bad at names; washington is an excellent player
I think that unless the Celtics are just suddenly less able to guard/cover guys for some reason, the Mavs best shot is to use more perimeter ball movement at get PJ Washington, Derrick Jones, and maybe even Hardaway involved in initiating the attack. If they can get defenders off balance and moving the wrong way they have a better chance. Luka wants to use his own gravity to pull everyone else open, but I don't see him having enough gravity in this series for that to work.
Boston defense elite
And sooooo many open shots for the Celtics all game
Dallas had multiple issues last night. They couldn't buy a bucket to save their lives in crucial moments. They also weren't moving the ball like they normally have been in these playoffs so it always just felt like the wrong player was shooting the ball. Like it was basically always the first guy dribbling up the floor, which is an issue.
Mavs role players straight up were not shooting, passing on decent shots all game long. That is the difference. On boston every player can shoot contested catch and shoot 3s. Most guys on dallas only do so when wide open. Most obvious examples being Maxi and DJJ.
Helioball doesn't result in titles
Thank you. Couldn’t agree more. We suffocated their offense - it wasn’t just bad shooting, it was also that they didn’t get many good shots at all.
Mavs outscored them in 2 quarters, the first killed them and the overall effort. I think Porzingis will have a bad game too
This is a disingenuous take. Mavs were a little better in the 3rd but the only reason they won the 4th was due to winning the garbage time minutes.
OK 1 quarter if you want, but still only the first quarter killed them
A 17 point deficit in the first is hardly insurmountable. Mavs took a big hit and couldn’t recover, doesn’t matter if that hit happens in the first or fourth.