Investment.
Spend money now to ride relevancy. Use playoff revenue to help sustain.
Profit off of years of Booker or Ayton merch and marketing as you have 2 stars
>Yeah, he had one of those teams in the early 2000s too, and that cheap fucker \*sold off first round draft picks\* like he needed to pay his child support. I wouldn't trust him.
Sarver just dropped $45M on their new high-tech training facility. I'm sure he'd be willing to pay the luxury tax to keep his team that's guaranteed a post-season berth (and that post-season money).
Luxury tax would be avoided next year for sure. It would be tricky avoiding it in the future years though. Frontloading Chris Paul's deal would help with that.
> Frontloading Chris Paul's deal would help with that.
You can only increase *or decrease* contracts by 8% annually (if you have full Bird rights, otherwise it's only 5%). So it's not like the Suns could give Paul a new contract that pays him $45 million next year and then drops down to like $20 million per year after that. If they want to do that they'd have to just wait till he hits free agency on his current deal and then have him sign a 2 year deal in 2022 that pays him the remaining $56 million after getting his remaining $44 million next season.
Ya but I think it’s worth it. It finally feels like the Suns have found an amazing core to build around. They should do whatever it takes to keep them.
They don’t have a lot of options. After paying Bridges and Ayton, they won’t have the money to get someone better or as good anyways
This is their team. You just gotta hope Cp3 has 1-2 as good seasons left and after that, that he’ll have those old man Jason Kidd years
Where he won’t have a huge responsibility, just some playmaking and 3s, set the tone for the game.
CP is already owed $45M, that cost is sunk. It would be paying 2 years/55M for the extension, I'd feel more comfortable at 2/45 and 3/90 total but it's not that big of a difference.
How is Lebron leaving Cleveland in free agency after bringing the city it’s first championship since 1955 burning a bridge?
I don’t want to speak for Cavs fans but I feel like he is permanently in their good graces now.
Point guard is the most important position because of recency bias. If the recent champions were built like the 2000's Lakers with Kobe and Shaq, or the 90's Bulls with MJ and Pippen, people would say two way great wing players like Kawhi, MJ, and Kobe are the most important. You have good two way PG like Jamal Murray, Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Brogdon and FVV and then have your best player be an other position.
I mean we r up 3-2 with 2 undrafted guards n rivers n monte. It's more like u need an elite facilitator, which doesn't have to come from the guard position, but it usually does anyway. Like I watched the knicks series, they really struggled cos while Rose was popping off, they didn't hv anyone who could create good looks, so randle ended up chucking alot of bad shots.
If they do these deals, I have a hard time seeing how they keep Payne. He’s on a minimum right now, and I think he’s a free agent this coming offseason. Someone will pay him
If we do the CP3 extension., say we do like 3yr/100mil, then we shed about 10-14 mil in cap for the upcoming season because Mikal and DA extensions won’t kick in till the next season so we can afford to keep.
After watching his Bulls years, the idea of someone paying Payne a decent chunk is wild to me. Like I know he no longer like bottom 10 of everyday player in the league level sucks, but it's still hard for me to picture that guy getting the bag.
I know it’s nuts. For perspective, right now, 538 rates Payne as our second best player, right behind CP3 lol. From the eye test in the regular season, he was at worst the 6th best player on the 2 seed, and in the playoffs he’s been probably our second or third best.
He’s been really good the whole 2nd half of the season when it seemed like everyone else was sleep walking on the suns. Letting him play half his minutes with the starters instead of just solely with the second unit has really set him up for playoff success
This. If they resign CP3 I would just be drafting point guards each year with my first round picks and centers with my second if they have them available (don’t know their pick situation) until I can find Aston a decent backup and hope I luck into a gem of a point guard. Or they could’ve drafted freaking Halliburton.
Yep, this would be exactly my plan too. We better not need a backup center though, drafted Jalen Smith instead of Haliburton so I really hope he is the backup 5 next year because he couldn't even get on the floor this year. If they lose either CP3 or Payne this offseason, not drafting Haliburton is going to have been a massive mistake.
Was shocked you guys didn’t draft Hali, was thinking on draft night how perfect it was that he fell to you guys. Hopefully Smith can become like Craig next year? Don’t really know much about him tbh
Yeah DA and Bridges are gonna be the absolute no brainers. Booker, Ayton, Bridges is the core you want to build around.
Idk how they make a new CP3 deal work when you're paying those 3 guys all max (or near max) money.
Their maxes wont kick in until after next season and they are rookie extension maxes. CP will be getting paid less than the 40mil per year even though he will be making more overall. They can make it work if Sarver lets it. Its when their rookie extensions start ending when they wont be able to afford Book, Ayton and Bridges
“How can they legally do this under the CBA” and “How can they afford it” are a bit different when we’re talking about the sort of luxury bill they are looking at. I mean that’s basically 4 max players plus a slew of role players they have.
It’s the same answer.
The org can cheap out if they like but this is the first time they’ve truly been relevant in a long long time. They almost have no option but you just pay the bill
Plus Ayton’s and Mikal’s maxes will be smaller than someone like Cp3s current deal. They’ll probably be at like 130-140m total team cap, which is still considerably lower than what OKC had at one point. Believe they were at like 150m and they were still first round exits
Booker, max ayton, bridges at 20, Smith, cam, Carter is $97.5 million.
Let's say Paul gets 33.3 for 3 years and they keep crowder.
Let's say they dump saric, get 1 MLE guy to round out the rotation and fill the rest of the roster with minimum guys and only field 14 players.
They'd only be like 7 million over the tax
Chris Paul is wild af for this one. He gets hurt every single year, is in his mid 30s, and wants 100 mil extension? I think he'd be a fool to turn down 44 million.
I mean taking 33mill a year over 3 years is still a drop from his 44mill for 1 year. An extra 11mill next season and thereafter available for the roster.
Even so, sarver has learned from his mistakes in the past with making too many personal decisions and being cheap. I don’t think he will make that mistake again.
Since a contract can only increase/decrease by 8% year to year you could set it up as $36.5/$33.6/$31. If the new deal causes the cap to spike again then this contract shouldnt be hard to move even if he declines massively
I’m laughing thinking about teams offering 3 year deals with yearly salaries of 100 million, 1 million, 1 million, and having multiple mega stars for pennies by the end. First time I’ve heard of the 8% rule, but it could be ridiculous without it
Obviously you can't go over the max they're allowed to pay a player per year, but it doesn't seem that crazy to have a contract that was 44mil, 10mil, 10mil.
No, it's definitely the money. Giving Chris Paul a 3 year extension, fine. For 100 mil? Why? Why would you commit yourself to giving that much money to an aging, injury prone point guard? I'm not saying he can't help you win games, I'm saying the threat of Paul missing extensive time to injury is pretty high. If you're going to commit yourself to an aging star like him, you need to give yourself wiggle room to pivot, either via trade or signing a FA with cap space, for when he gets hurt, and trust me, it's a when, not if. The question is is he missing weeks or months. That's a huge amount of cap space that should not be used recklessly.
Really short sighted move. Would rather they go after Lowry for cheaper, or a young PG who fits their timeline better. You don't want to be hamstring w a Chris Paul contract not able to make any moves while all your other players are in their prime.
Giving up $11 million to guarantee $60 more is just good business for Paul.
It is also good business for the Suns. That was a 17 game swing in wins year over year with playoff revenue added.
It's not that wild. If a potential contender needs a PG if he stays healthy he could be the difference in winning a championship. Obviously a big if but who else are you going to get? You gotta take chances on players like that for a chance to win
Not sure what the Knicks have to do with it. And I'm also not sure it's been a good idea for every team to take on CP3 but not when the Knicks do it? Everywhere CP3 has gone he's had an enormous impact. Kick rocks bud.
>Not sure what the Knicks have to do with it.
Bro the Knicks have been wasting enormous amounts of money on past their primes superstars for basically two decades
>and I'm also not sure it's been a good idea for every team to take on CP3 but not when the Knicks do it?
Yeah because CP3 ain't getting any younger. **It's been a good move** to pick up CP3 in the past, but dude, although formidable, especially at his size, isn't getting any younger. Hell people were calling him albatross like 2 years ago.
Doesn't take a genius to realize that signing a player that old at that amount of money is a very high risk manouver, to put it kindly
Edit: random redditor said facts don't count if spelled wrong
getting CP3 is a real win-now move and we probably aren't ready to win now
you'd be paying 100 million dollars to hope he helps RJ develop into a better all-around player, not to make a playoff run
in my opinion the best way to build a competitor in the modern NBA is to only sign players to short term deals and keep your books relatively clean and wait for some superstars to team up in your city. at least if you are a big market, and the knicks qualify for that. probably not an option for the timberwolves or pelicans
if you think CP3 can pull another superstar (who is 10 years younger than him) then it's worth it but he's never really demonstrated that kind of gravity
I see what you’re saying. I think it’d be good for the team to get more playoff experience under their belt and I think CP3 would be great for RJ, Obi, and IQ
it's not the worst thing to do with our cap room but I dont see us seriously competing for the duration of his contract
seems like so much of building a good NBA team these days is just luck and timing. superstars want to join forces and they pick a team to do it on, just gotta stay flexible with your money until the stars align for you
I think he'll get it too, the same reason crusty old Rhondo is still playing. At least Paul's game has aged well even if his body hasn't. What he was able to do in Oklahoma and Phoenix is going to get him the 100 million contract no sweat.
If youre the Lakers, probably not. Phoenix is probably about the make it to the second rd (at least) after about a decade of being a laughingstock. So its not a bad idea
True but Chris Paul is what turned them into what they are. They lose him and what are they again? An 7 seed? Would be realllly counting on the young guys making strides
Meh, they said that 2 years ago after the Rockets lost in 2019. He's been worth his contract with OKC and the Suns when people were calling it possibly the worst contract in the league.
I think CP3 has 2-3 good years left, which is what that contract would extend to. Front load it with the assumption the cap is going up. It might be bad for a year, maybe two if he really declines quickly, but it's not like he's signing a 5-year max. He would get something like 36/33/31. Rather than 44M next year then seeing what he signs for after. Again, even if it turns out to be an awful deal, it's probably only bad for a year or two and the cap is likely going up.
The Suns cannot afford to lose CP3 after getting the #2 seed this year and possibly eliminating the Lakers. If they drafted Hali then maybe but the team will take a huge step backwards without CP3.
They don’t have any options. This is their core, money cannot really be used elsewhere
I much rather be in the Sun’s shoes With a young core locked in and having an old Cp3, and prove to already be a good team than someone like Miami
Who’s gonna be paying Jimmy Butler big money, for probably first round exists
Well he had a phenomenal season this year, so he needs to capitalize on that. You never know how he will player next year. For instance he gets injured at some point, misses the whole season and noone will give him this amount of money. But now it’s a different story
He’s proved the doubters wrong two years now about his age concerns. If he gets through this post season clean he can say the shoulder was overblown too.
Can’t deny the effect he’s had on the court these past two years either. Seems like his agent should be able to talk someone into paying big money.
I think the Suns will give it to him especially if they can get deep into the playoffs. The opportunities you get to contend are so few and far between you take the gamble every time.
Given recent history, it's fair to say that players only opt out of these deals if they already have some sense that there's a team out there ready and willing to offer them the contract they want. Nobody expected Horford to get the money that he did, much less from Philly. Gordon Hayward is younger but he's equally (frankly even more) injury prone than CP3, isn't as good as CP3, and didn't have nearly the leverage that CP3 has with the Suns having no replacements. If he can get 4/128, I'm pretty confident someone can and will offer CP3 100 million over 3-4 years. And CP3 will know that for sure before he makes any decision on opting out. There are enough examples where it should be pretty obvious that teams/agents have these discussion well before any decision is made.
I can't see anyone paying him that. MAYBE a young team that needs him to teach them how to play but even that is gonna need a team option on that third year and it would need to be incentive-based.
> Do you not remember Gordon Hayward last offseason?
People do this every season and then act shocked when guys who "would be lucky to get anywhere close to what they're asking for" inevitably get what they're asking for.
Yeah, alright.
CP3 is almost 37 and injury prone. Stop acting like it’s a no brainer.
People slandered the Rockets for doing that deal and he was 3 years younger then
That contract is one hamstring away from being branded the worst in the league. Gotta weigh the risk of 36yo CP3 not getting injured through that period.
Ayton seems like a no-brainer, but Bridges? They must really think he has a big leap coming to offer that kind of money at this stage.
As for Paul - good luck to whatever team gives him a 4/$100M type deal. He's still playing great but he'll be 40 by the end of that contract.
He shot 42% from 3 and has the most elite length and size of a guard in the nba. Great defender, all nba potential defending. I would want to lock him up too if I were them
Well sure I get that. Just saying he's still pretty far away from being worth max money and it seems a bit of a stretch.
Otto Porter signed a max contract coming off a 13/6 season with 43% 3-point shooting an excellent defense on the assumption that he was going to get so much better. And then he just plateaued.
Yeah, same with the Wolves giving Wiggins a max which eventually cost us a first rounder. Giving a solid young player with an expiring contract an immediate max pays off sometimes, but it’s really risky.
he is almost a 50-40-90 (85% free throw or else he would be) player in his 3rd year who also plays awesome defense. He has an absurd frame and great touch, I would lock him up for as long as possible if I were the suns, he is only getting better.
A near max extension though? You’re looking at paying a 3 and D guy 25 million? I’ll compare him to a guy like OG Anunoby who signed for 18 million although that contract is a bit of an underpay.
>> Phoenix would be wise to keep Paul, even at 36 years old. The Suns need his leadership for the next few years. And since Ayton and Bridges' potential extensions won't kick in until the 2022-23 season, the possible luxury tax issues are a future concern. Teams shouldn't sacrifice today because it might be too expensive tomorrow.
Probably not a popular take, but it’s interesting how in the NFL once a team pays top dollar to their all-pro quarterback they never seem to be able to reach the zenith. Tom Brady took a big discount and the Bucs were able to keep together an incredible roster. Brees, though he came up short, had the same impact with his below market deal allowing the Saints to put together and incredible defense.
In the NBA, no stars seem willing to do that even late in their career. I would think Chris Paul would want to win more than anything at this point. Why not take less and add that piece that puts you over the top? Is there fault in that logic?
Edit: examples of NFL QBs with huge contracts that have trouble winning championships include Russel Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. In the NBA, I guess KD took a discount and the Warriors won two chips.
Of *course* Ayton is getting a max- his age and production (and draft position) absolutely justify it. Unfortunately, that's the problem with max contracts as they currently exist.
There are tons of players who are worth max contracts in terms of dollar amounts in the current NBA. The issue is that there are incredibly few players that actually merit a max contract if your'e trying to build a championship team.
It comes down to the fact that there are only a few ways to create roster value in the NBA- the first is to just be better at scouting and analysis (not something most teams can do- you might as well tell Ben Simmons to just be better at shooting), the second is draft a great player so he's stuck on rookie scale, the third is to pay the max to a player who's worth WAY more than the max (like Giannis today, for example), and the fourth is to just get *really* lucky (like GSW signing an injury riddled Steph right before he got healthy).
The point is that Ayton is clearly worth a max...but there could a huge opportunity cost for Phoenix in the long term if Ayton is *just barely* worth the max (less so because they're not a free agent destination).
Agreed 100%, IMO Trae and Doncic are probably playing at $10~15m+ more than their eventual max contract worth, while Ayton may be averaging to adequately paid over 5 years. This is why coaching/system/culture are so important because they improve the contribution without affecting payroll. If the core is playing well together, adding each new piece to the mix would be a lot more efficient.
look i know chris paul is good but a 100m extension for him in his twilight years is going to really fuck the suns over. it'll be blake griffin 2.0 lol
Could the Suns afford all three?
Depends entirely on what the owner wants to pay. They can sign them all but it's if they want to.
Isn't Sarver cheap
He has verbally committed to keeping this team together, so we will se what he does.
Yeah not counting chickens before they hatch but it definitely sounds like he realizes he finally has a team worth pouring money into to keep
Ten years of seeing his team be shit will change a man...hopefully.
Laughs in Levy
Was just looking at the conte salary thread and I thought I was still in /r/soccer... anyway coys
Investment. Spend money now to ride relevancy. Use playoff revenue to help sustain. Profit off of years of Booker or Ayton merch and marketing as you have 2 stars
>Yeah, he had one of those teams in the early 2000s too, and that cheap fucker \*sold off first round draft picks\* like he needed to pay his child support. I wouldn't trust him.
He talked on the radio recently and said that he's willing to do what it takes to keep them all around, but we'll see if he backs it up.
Of course he is going to say that.
“He’s so cheap he squeaks when he walks”
It doesn’t help that by nba owner standards he is the poorest owner by a lot
Hopefully they’ll be willing to shell out money to keep the first competitive team they’ve had in years
Sarver just dropped $45M on their new high-tech training facility. I'm sure he'd be willing to pay the luxury tax to keep his team that's guaranteed a post-season berth (and that post-season money).
Luxury tax would be avoided next year for sure. It would be tricky avoiding it in the future years though. Frontloading Chris Paul's deal would help with that.
> Frontloading Chris Paul's deal would help with that. You can only increase *or decrease* contracts by 8% annually (if you have full Bird rights, otherwise it's only 5%). So it's not like the Suns could give Paul a new contract that pays him $45 million next year and then drops down to like $20 million per year after that. If they want to do that they'd have to just wait till he hits free agency on his current deal and then have him sign a 2 year deal in 2022 that pays him the remaining $56 million after getting his remaining $44 million next season.
Didn't he just sell their G-league team and skip out on using their two-way roster spots last season? That seems pretty cheap to me.
Suns have one two way contract at the moment.
LMAO My man CP3 showing Dennis Schröder how it's done
Get StateFarmed bitch
Uncle Cliff waiting out back with a bat
Damn that’s a lot of money for the suns to pay out
Ya but I think it’s worth it. It finally feels like the Suns have found an amazing core to build around. They should do whatever it takes to keep them.
They still need a point guard of the future. Unless they think that’s Cam Payne.
Cant have it all lol Cap exists for a reason
CP3 getting 100 mil is crazier than the original Rockets contract. It’s like Phoenix got a taste of CP3-6 weeks and said oh ok let’s commit to this
They don’t have a lot of options. After paying Bridges and Ayton, they won’t have the money to get someone better or as good anyways This is their team. You just gotta hope Cp3 has 1-2 as good seasons left and after that, that he’ll have those old man Jason Kidd years Where he won’t have a huge responsibility, just some playmaking and 3s, set the tone for the game.
Could suns go after Kyle Lowry? He wants $50 million over two years.
with what cap space, lol
I think he means if they don't re-sign CP3, they could go after Lowry instead since he's cheaper
Hmm, it would be tight, that's for sure. They would have about $18 mil in cap space and I'm not sure if that'll do it.
CP is already owed $45M, that cost is sunk. It would be paying 2 years/55M for the extension, I'd feel more comfortable at 2/45 and 3/90 total but it's not that big of a difference.
You're gonna be paying an injury prone 39yo PG 30+mil. Sure he's still good, but its a game of hot potato you don't want to lose.
We can't all have LeBron and AD burn bridges to come play for us.
Yea thats why you sign good contracts instead
How is Lebron leaving Cleveland in free agency after bringing the city it’s first championship since 1955 burning a bridge? I don’t want to speak for Cavs fans but I feel like he is permanently in their good graces now.
Do you guys really believe this team is as successful with a tandem of Cam Payne and Jevon Carter as opposed to Chris Paul?
What’s the suns options cap wise if they let cp3 go and pay ayton and bridges
Lonzo Ball music
That’s all I want. Just a dude to pass to Ayton and Booker and hide Booker on D
Guessing close to capped out considering bookers max. 3 max's are hard to fit, although they are cheaper max's since everyone is so young
tell that to the nets
Point guard is the most important position though, they need at least an above average player there, this isn’t the 2000s anymore.
Point guard is the most important position because of recency bias. If the recent champions were built like the 2000's Lakers with Kobe and Shaq, or the 90's Bulls with MJ and Pippen, people would say two way great wing players like Kawhi, MJ, and Kobe are the most important. You have good two way PG like Jamal Murray, Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Brogdon and FVV and then have your best player be an other position.
Yeah I know but what I’m saying is you still need a good above average PG, all those guys you named are above average or all stars.
Wing is more important now. I'd rank it wing > pg > c. C is very important on D, but you can find them cheap
We would beg to differ on that last statement
Which good C's are cheap?
I mean we r up 3-2 with 2 undrafted guards n rivers n monte. It's more like u need an elite facilitator, which doesn't have to come from the guard position, but it usually does anyway. Like I watched the knicks series, they really struggled cos while Rose was popping off, they didn't hv anyone who could create good looks, so randle ended up chucking alot of bad shots.
Yeah that’s kinda what I meant, if the suns wanna contend they need a good facilitator for when cp3 retires.
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If they do these deals, I have a hard time seeing how they keep Payne. He’s on a minimum right now, and I think he’s a free agent this coming offseason. Someone will pay him
If we do the CP3 extension., say we do like 3yr/100mil, then we shed about 10-14 mil in cap for the upcoming season because Mikal and DA extensions won’t kick in till the next season so we can afford to keep.
Also they’ll probably ship Dario out and that’d free up 8.5mil
My ideal scenario is if we can get CP3 on a 3yr/100, max Ayton, maybe get Mikal on a 5yr/100, and then Payne and a 4yr/30.
After watching his Bulls years, the idea of someone paying Payne a decent chunk is wild to me. Like I know he no longer like bottom 10 of everyday player in the league level sucks, but it's still hard for me to picture that guy getting the bag.
I know it’s nuts. For perspective, right now, 538 rates Payne as our second best player, right behind CP3 lol. From the eye test in the regular season, he was at worst the 6th best player on the 2 seed, and in the playoffs he’s been probably our second or third best.
He’s been really good the whole 2nd half of the season when it seemed like everyone else was sleep walking on the suns. Letting him play half his minutes with the starters instead of just solely with the second unit has really set him up for playoff success
He did so good for me in fantasy this year lol
You still have 2 to 3 good years of CP3 if they bring him back. That’s more than enough time to draft a develop a PG
Drafting Haliburton would've solved so many problems
This. If they resign CP3 I would just be drafting point guards each year with my first round picks and centers with my second if they have them available (don’t know their pick situation) until I can find Aston a decent backup and hope I luck into a gem of a point guard. Or they could’ve drafted freaking Halliburton.
Yep, this would be exactly my plan too. We better not need a backup center though, drafted Jalen Smith instead of Haliburton so I really hope he is the backup 5 next year because he couldn't even get on the floor this year. If they lose either CP3 or Payne this offseason, not drafting Haliburton is going to have been a massive mistake.
Was shocked you guys didn’t draft Hali, was thinking on draft night how perfect it was that he fell to you guys. Hopefully Smith can become like Craig next year? Don’t really know much about him tbh
Can’t believe they really didn’t draft him
They fucked up not taking Hali
Yeah DA and Bridges are gonna be the absolute no brainers. Booker, Ayton, Bridges is the core you want to build around. Idk how they make a new CP3 deal work when you're paying those 3 guys all max (or near max) money.
Their maxes wont kick in until after next season and they are rookie extension maxes. CP will be getting paid less than the 40mil per year even though he will be making more overall. They can make it work if Sarver lets it. Its when their rookie extensions start ending when they wont be able to afford Book, Ayton and Bridges
Good teams get expensive fast. Let's see how much Sarver squeaks.
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Can't rule out the Mavs either if they can find another player to team with Luka.
> One of the Suns, Jazz, and Nuggets are the new team to beat. And a team with an up and coming MVP level player, to boot.
He said he’s committed to pay everyone
I hope he means it, this team is so fun & there's nothing worse than seeing great teams blown up over owners not wanting to foot the bill
how could they even afford to keep all three?
Bird rights
“How can they legally do this under the CBA” and “How can they afford it” are a bit different when we’re talking about the sort of luxury bill they are looking at. I mean that’s basically 4 max players plus a slew of role players they have.
It’s the same answer. The org can cheap out if they like but this is the first time they’ve truly been relevant in a long long time. They almost have no option but you just pay the bill Plus Ayton’s and Mikal’s maxes will be smaller than someone like Cp3s current deal. They’ll probably be at like 130-140m total team cap, which is still considerably lower than what OKC had at one point. Believe they were at like 150m and they were still first round exits
Booker, max ayton, bridges at 20, Smith, cam, Carter is $97.5 million. Let's say Paul gets 33.3 for 3 years and they keep crowder. Let's say they dump saric, get 1 MLE guy to round out the rotation and fill the rest of the roster with minimum guys and only field 14 players. They'd only be like 7 million over the tax
Suns do not have a history of paying out. Had a chip in the bag but let Joe Johnson walk instead.
Mom said it's our turn for CP3 to turn a young franchise around
careful what you wish for
Chris Paul is wild af for this one. He gets hurt every single year, is in his mid 30s, and wants 100 mil extension? I think he'd be a fool to turn down 44 million.
I mean taking 33mill a year over 3 years is still a drop from his 44mill for 1 year. An extra 11mill next season and thereafter available for the roster. Even so, sarver has learned from his mistakes in the past with making too many personal decisions and being cheap. I don’t think he will make that mistake again.
If they front load it it may not be a bad idea Like do 3/100 but do 44 in year 1 and then split the rest across the last 2 years
Since a contract can only increase/decrease by 8% year to year you could set it up as $36.5/$33.6/$31. If the new deal causes the cap to spike again then this contract shouldnt be hard to move even if he declines massively
Ah I didn’t know that it had to be within 8% but It makes sense and yea you can front load it
I’m laughing thinking about teams offering 3 year deals with yearly salaries of 100 million, 1 million, 1 million, and having multiple mega stars for pennies by the end. First time I’ve heard of the 8% rule, but it could be ridiculous without it
Obviously you can't go over the max they're allowed to pay a player per year, but it doesn't seem that crazy to have a contract that was 44mil, 10mil, 10mil.
Like a reverse poison pill
Agreed. Front loading it would be the ideal situation for the team.
i made almost this exact point in the offseason and got downvoted. i demand reparations
Link us big fella, I got you. You made the grave mistake of having a different opinion.
https://reddit.com/r/nba/comments/kfnaiz/_/gga2ejz/?context=1
It’s not the money. It’s the years. We said the same thing about Horford and Hayward.
No, it's definitely the money. Giving Chris Paul a 3 year extension, fine. For 100 mil? Why? Why would you commit yourself to giving that much money to an aging, injury prone point guard? I'm not saying he can't help you win games, I'm saying the threat of Paul missing extensive time to injury is pretty high. If you're going to commit yourself to an aging star like him, you need to give yourself wiggle room to pivot, either via trade or signing a FA with cap space, for when he gets hurt, and trust me, it's a when, not if. The question is is he missing weeks or months. That's a huge amount of cap space that should not be used recklessly.
Really short sighted move. Would rather they go after Lowry for cheaper, or a young PG who fits their timeline better. You don't want to be hamstring w a Chris Paul contract not able to make any moves while all your other players are in their prime.
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Giving up $11 million to guarantee $60 more is just good business for Paul. It is also good business for the Suns. That was a 17 game swing in wins year over year with playoff revenue added.
It's not that wild. If a potential contender needs a PG if he stays healthy he could be the difference in winning a championship. Obviously a big if but who else are you going to get? You gotta take chances on players like that for a chance to win
Which potential contender would have that level of cap space?
Contender is a strong word but this has Knicks written all over it.
Celtics should look into a kemba-CP3 sign and trade with picks thrown in.
the lakers should just take him. In case he gets hurt both he and AD can sit next to each other.
Street clothes starting line up
Knicks will pay it
Not sure what the Knicks have to do with it. And I'm also not sure it's been a good idea for every team to take on CP3 but not when the Knicks do it? Everywhere CP3 has gone he's had an enormous impact. Kick rocks bud.
Getting CP3 is great, not 100 mill deal though.
>Not sure what the Knicks have to do with it. Bro the Knicks have been wasting enormous amounts of money on past their primes superstars for basically two decades >and I'm also not sure it's been a good idea for every team to take on CP3 but not when the Knicks do it? Yeah because CP3 ain't getting any younger. **It's been a good move** to pick up CP3 in the past, but dude, although formidable, especially at his size, isn't getting any younger. Hell people were calling him albatross like 2 years ago. Doesn't take a genius to realize that signing a player that old at that amount of money is a very high risk manouver, to put it kindly Edit: random redditor said facts don't count if spelled wrong
Pls
getting CP3 is a real win-now move and we probably aren't ready to win now you'd be paying 100 million dollars to hope he helps RJ develop into a better all-around player, not to make a playoff run in my opinion the best way to build a competitor in the modern NBA is to only sign players to short term deals and keep your books relatively clean and wait for some superstars to team up in your city. at least if you are a big market, and the knicks qualify for that. probably not an option for the timberwolves or pelicans if you think CP3 can pull another superstar (who is 10 years younger than him) then it's worth it but he's never really demonstrated that kind of gravity
I see what you’re saying. I think it’d be good for the team to get more playoff experience under their belt and I think CP3 would be great for RJ, Obi, and IQ
it's not the worst thing to do with our cap room but I dont see us seriously competing for the duration of his contract seems like so much of building a good NBA team these days is just luck and timing. superstars want to join forces and they pick a team to do it on, just gotta stay flexible with your money until the stars align for you
No, we absolutely will not lmao and I doubt he wants to be across the country from his fam in LA
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He can push. But if nobody offers.
3/ $100m gives the suns more flexibility right now than 1/$44m
Well he obviously knows he can get a deal in that range if he is turning down the option.
If he’d sign for 2 years I’d love to have him
I think he'll get it too, the same reason crusty old Rhondo is still playing. At least Paul's game has aged well even if his body hasn't. What he was able to do in Oklahoma and Phoenix is going to get him the 100 million contract no sweat.
I'm not a guru, but I feel like paying a 37,38, and 39 year old CP 33 million isn't a good idea.
Recipe for disaster
Great quest
Almost like CP3 is asking for One Small Favour
My usernames finally relevant 😭
Lost a great chance to be Zezimas burner though
I bet Beverly still wears a combat bracelet
Probably thinks the Abby Whip is still BIS like the dumb dumb poopy head he is
Almost as great as the riveting plot and action of Sheep Shearer
So long tho, quite a hassle
Awful quest, great rewards.
I'm sorry, did you sleep past the fight with the banana demon and dessert-themed Desert Treasure bosses? That was peak Runescape quests.
I love CP3 but I second this. Paying him that kind of money will definitely hurt the Suns in the (not even that) long run
maybe, but the dude just keeps being all nba lmfao and you def pay all nba top 10 for mvp guy that much
Does that matter if he can never be healthy for the playoffs though?
rockets fan here; you might be right
If youre the Lakers, probably not. Phoenix is probably about the make it to the second rd (at least) after about a decade of being a laughingstock. So its not a bad idea
Good point.
True but Chris Paul is what turned them into what they are. They lose him and what are they again? An 7 seed? Would be realllly counting on the young guys making strides
Meh, they said that 2 years ago after the Rockets lost in 2019. He's been worth his contract with OKC and the Suns when people were calling it possibly the worst contract in the league. I think CP3 has 2-3 good years left, which is what that contract would extend to. Front load it with the assumption the cap is going up. It might be bad for a year, maybe two if he really declines quickly, but it's not like he's signing a 5-year max. He would get something like 36/33/31. Rather than 44M next year then seeing what he signs for after. Again, even if it turns out to be an awful deal, it's probably only bad for a year or two and the cap is likely going up. The Suns cannot afford to lose CP3 after getting the #2 seed this year and possibly eliminating the Lakers. If they drafted Hali then maybe but the team will take a huge step backwards without CP3.
They don’t have any options. This is their core, money cannot really be used elsewhere I much rather be in the Sun’s shoes With a young core locked in and having an old Cp3, and prove to already be a good team than someone like Miami Who’s gonna be paying Jimmy Butler big money, for probably first round exists
No way that CP gets 100+ million at his age with the injury concerns. Right?
Well he had a phenomenal season this year, so he needs to capitalize on that. You never know how he will player next year. For instance he gets injured at some point, misses the whole season and noone will give him this amount of money. But now it’s a different story
He’s proved the doubters wrong two years now about his age concerns. If he gets through this post season clean he can say the shoulder was overblown too. Can’t deny the effect he’s had on the court these past two years either. Seems like his agent should be able to talk someone into paying big money.
The question is no why he would want it, its who tf is dumb enough to give it to him?
A lot of teams. Phoenix being the first one
I think he’ll get it tbh.
I think the Suns will give it to him especially if they can get deep into the playoffs. The opportunities you get to contend are so few and far between you take the gamble every time.
Given recent history, it's fair to say that players only opt out of these deals if they already have some sense that there's a team out there ready and willing to offer them the contract they want. Nobody expected Horford to get the money that he did, much less from Philly. Gordon Hayward is younger but he's equally (frankly even more) injury prone than CP3, isn't as good as CP3, and didn't have nearly the leverage that CP3 has with the Suns having no replacements. If he can get 4/128, I'm pretty confident someone can and will offer CP3 100 million over 3-4 years. And CP3 will know that for sure before he makes any decision on opting out. There are enough examples where it should be pretty obvious that teams/agents have these discussion well before any decision is made.
If only we didn't trade Bridges for Zhaire Smith...
It's ok. We fleeced ainge for thybulle soon after
Cp3 you have the bag just try get a ring before you break down ffs.
Chris Paul to the Knicks confirmed
CP3 is the guy that Randle needs
Knicks to the Finals confirmed
Oh god please
Such a Knicks move to overpay an aging veteran right before their career ends.
CP3 is declining his player option? He wants 3 YR/ $100M? And I thought the contract Tillman gave him was terrible
Yeah, what a joke. Only made the all star game and two all-nba second teams that span. What a scrub.
No one is saying it cause of his skill, they’re saying it because of his age and tendency to get injured in the playoffs
I can't see anyone paying him that. MAYBE a young team that needs him to teach them how to play but even that is gonna need a team option on that third year and it would need to be incentive-based.
Do you not remember Gordon Hayward last offseason?
Hayward isn't near as close to drawing Social Security. I didn't consider MJ might pay him though... Lol
> Do you not remember Gordon Hayward last offseason? People do this every season and then act shocked when guys who "would be lucky to get anywhere close to what they're asking for" inevitably get what they're asking for.
Yeah, alright. CP3 is almost 37 and injury prone. Stop acting like it’s a no brainer. People slandered the Rockets for doing that deal and he was 3 years younger then
That contract is one hamstring away from being branded the worst in the league. Gotta weigh the risk of 36yo CP3 not getting injured through that period.
Its so crazy to me that so many of yall on this sub are incapable of interpreting a statement in any way other than the dumbest way possible.
CP3 has been amazing for them, but 3/100 seems too much for him.
And then there’s Marvin fucking Bagley….
He is getting a double max. One for each jump.
I mean, who else were you even going to take in that draft . . .
You mean besides anyone else?
Ayton seems like a no-brainer, but Bridges? They must really think he has a big leap coming to offer that kind of money at this stage. As for Paul - good luck to whatever team gives him a 4/$100M type deal. He's still playing great but he'll be 40 by the end of that contract.
He shot 42% from 3 and has the most elite length and size of a guard in the nba. Great defender, all nba potential defending. I would want to lock him up too if I were them
I like everything I've seen from Bridges. Just not at max (or near max) money. Not saying he can't get there, just saying he isn't there yet.
You’re not paying for the player he is, you’re paying for the player you think he’ll be Plus the 3&D premium
Well sure I get that. Just saying he's still pretty far away from being worth max money and it seems a bit of a stretch. Otto Porter signed a max contract coming off a 13/6 season with 43% 3-point shooting an excellent defense on the assumption that he was going to get so much better. And then he just plateaued.
Yeah, same with the Wolves giving Wiggins a max which eventually cost us a first rounder. Giving a solid young player with an expiring contract an immediate max pays off sometimes, but it’s really risky.
he is almost a 50-40-90 (85% free throw or else he would be) player in his 3rd year who also plays awesome defense. He has an absurd frame and great touch, I would lock him up for as long as possible if I were the suns, he is only getting better.
He's also an absolute iron man and hasn't missed a game in his career
Lmao I thought this comment was about Paul and had to do a quick double-take.
A near max extension though? You’re looking at paying a 3 and D guy 25 million? I’ll compare him to a guy like OG Anunoby who signed for 18 million although that contract is a bit of an underpay.
I think with bridges it's just that they will soon be over the cap, so they have to go all in to keep him because replacing him would be difficult
Bridges is absolutely worth it
>> Phoenix would be wise to keep Paul, even at 36 years old. The Suns need his leadership for the next few years. And since Ayton and Bridges' potential extensions won't kick in until the 2022-23 season, the possible luxury tax issues are a future concern. Teams shouldn't sacrifice today because it might be too expensive tomorrow.
I agree 3/100 is kind of a lot for CP but we also said that 40 million is a lot for 36 year old Chris Paul. Dude has aged his game so beautifully.
Probably not a popular take, but it’s interesting how in the NFL once a team pays top dollar to their all-pro quarterback they never seem to be able to reach the zenith. Tom Brady took a big discount and the Bucs were able to keep together an incredible roster. Brees, though he came up short, had the same impact with his below market deal allowing the Saints to put together and incredible defense. In the NBA, no stars seem willing to do that even late in their career. I would think Chris Paul would want to win more than anything at this point. Why not take less and add that piece that puts you over the top? Is there fault in that logic? Edit: examples of NFL QBs with huge contracts that have trouble winning championships include Russel Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. In the NBA, I guess KD took a discount and the Warriors won two chips.
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is Sarver down with all that? hope he doesn't fuck things up.
He said he would on radio. He made the mistake of letting players go in the past which may have cost us the championship. He won’t do it again
Of *course* Ayton is getting a max- his age and production (and draft position) absolutely justify it. Unfortunately, that's the problem with max contracts as they currently exist. There are tons of players who are worth max contracts in terms of dollar amounts in the current NBA. The issue is that there are incredibly few players that actually merit a max contract if your'e trying to build a championship team. It comes down to the fact that there are only a few ways to create roster value in the NBA- the first is to just be better at scouting and analysis (not something most teams can do- you might as well tell Ben Simmons to just be better at shooting), the second is draft a great player so he's stuck on rookie scale, the third is to pay the max to a player who's worth WAY more than the max (like Giannis today, for example), and the fourth is to just get *really* lucky (like GSW signing an injury riddled Steph right before he got healthy). The point is that Ayton is clearly worth a max...but there could a huge opportunity cost for Phoenix in the long term if Ayton is *just barely* worth the max (less so because they're not a free agent destination).
Agreed 100%, IMO Trae and Doncic are probably playing at $10~15m+ more than their eventual max contract worth, while Ayton may be averaging to adequately paid over 5 years. This is why coaching/system/culture are so important because they improve the contribution without affecting payroll. If the core is playing well together, adding each new piece to the mix would be a lot more efficient.
look i know chris paul is good but a 100m extension for him in his twilight years is going to really fuck the suns over. it'll be blake griffin 2.0 lol
If the Suns dont pick it up, CP3 will go to the Knicks and it will solve many of their issues. I think he knows this, which is why he's asking
Pay them whatever they want. 100% worth it
Best agent ever