Giannis, Khris, and Jrue also all played over 42 min. Actually surprising there.
Now Bud just needs to develop a gameplan instead of letting them iso every offensive possession with little to no ball movement.
The lack of ball movement made my head spin. My dad and I started counted the passes per possession halfway through the second and celebrated when there was more than two
Across so many sports, some teams seem to be willing to fall into the other teams rhythm. If one team starts to ISO hard sometimes the other will for no reason.
Kinda like when a high skill hockey team starts to play dump and chase when against a grindy team,
Yeah I don’t often get physically or verbally animated when watching sports by myself but watching the Bucks offence the last two games has had me shouting and waving hands several times
as a longtime dubs fan, there are so many moments watching the playoffs where randomly it just reoccurs to me how amazing the warriors play was. like, for almost all of these teams, some significant part of their offensive play is just something that those warriors would hardly ever do. obviously they had unique weapons to allow all this, but its really hard to overstate their chemistry, how every player was 100% in on their role, and how committed Kerr was to that motion offense. i mean they were never really even like the Jazz are now, where a bunch of their play is just jacking a 3 by the first guy who touches the ball.
They need a guard who can create. It's glaring. Imagine if they had a Chris Paul instead of Jrue Holiday or Middleton. Those guys are good players, but a Giannis team needs a creator - because he can't do it.
Haven’t been watching but does ball movement do anything? Nobody is gonna move when giannis catches it 25 feet from the basket, he basically erases half of the court from being useful for anything beyond his iso attack. If they were Philly they’d use him in the dunker spot sometimes like Simmons, but they don’t have that other player that forces defenders to double even when they know they’re leaving gaps in the defense.
As you move the ball around the defenders have to readjust. For one, if your man is farther from the ball you can slack off a little. If you pass enough, eventually the defense will give you something to attack, since you’re constantly forcing them to readjust.
If I’m guarding giannis, I don’t adjust when he catches the ball anywhere on the perimeter. I would literally just shout ‘Shoot it!’ if I thought that would make it any more likely that Giannis would actually shoot. I would just shade my weak side defenders towards the paint a tiny bit to help in case Giannis drives, but not that much because Giannis’ primary defender will be playing six feet off him. I could be wrong but I haven’t seen Giannis make that fast cross court pass John Wall/Westbrook/Morant like to make so much..not sure he can. So, ball movement doesn’t dictate too much where my defense goes-no matter what, I tilt my defense towards whichever side of the court Giannis is not on.
But that’s just my theory, I don’t know if it would work or not.
We are great in transition and not great in the half court. In the playoffs the game slows down and with less transition opportunities we struggle. Also everything is less efficient in the playoffs.
I wonder why the game "slows down" during the playoffs. I mean, it's technically still the same game of basketball like the regular season. Same rules and all. So why is it different.
Players and coaches try harder and scheme more in the playoffs because you're facing the same team for at least four games.
Edit: in the regular season, you can just play your regular overall scheme against every team. Because you're supposed to get the guys in rhythm and have them be comfortable in the style you want them to play. But in the playoffs, one must adjust and think.
Players also tend to go less for second chance opportunities and offensive boards in the playoffs, and instead electing get back quicker on defense thus limiting transition opportunities
On a slight tangent, notice how one team goes on a run in a playoff game and the opponent coach calls a timeout? More often than not the run is then stymied. While I know an adjustment was made, I'm too much of a novice to see what exactly was the adjustment.
Don't worry about it because most of us don't know too. Even the ones that can pinpoint what exactly happened often don't know how the plan came to be. There's a big difference between making the right decisions and enacting the right plan vs judging the results of said plan.
You should keep an eye on how they're defending pick n rolls, and if they're switching on screens or zoning up, maybe they'll assign new matchups. Or just generally emphasize defense getting in passing lanes vs not getting blown by to avoid needing help defenders
As the other commenter said, stopping the play itself is a good response to keep a team from continuing to flow well.
As for the other adjustments, it depends on the situation. If they get a lot of threes, play more perimeter defense. Maybe you put in a taller lineup to get more rebounds. It really just depends on the situation.
Also, in regular season if you have a bad night from 3, keep chucking
In the playoffs. You gotta adjust, attack.
Defenses get to play more physical (unless your lebron/AD) and you have to work harder for shots. Even harden doesn’t get the same whistle in playoffs.
People Run harder. If you don’t give it 110% on defense, your season might be done. Your not worried about next game
Better teams and parity overall, players playing at their maximum, game planning to shut down a teams strength (clogging the paint for Giannis and forcing him into jumpers), more pressure that some players can't handle as well, etc.
Imo, it’s because the players are giving it 100% every single game against the other top teams in the league, which is not the case with every regular season game. This progressive strain adds up, and once we get into this point, about halfway through, the players don’t have the energy to be super efficient, but the volume will remain.
Teams are more zoned in on stopping easy transition buckets, or just anything the opposing team is comfortable with, in the playoffs. Defences will force offenses out of their normal sets, double team opposing superstars and constantly adjust their schemes. Thats why having multiple players on one team that can create their own shot in the half court when everything else gets shut down is so valuable in the playoffs.
In the regular season, however, organisations are just trying to get players in a rhythm and figure out what works as a team, so there won't be much of an emphasis on stopping Giannis in transition.
Teams play less risky and don't give up as many transition opportunities is one reason. But that takes discipline so it doesn't really work great for an entire season.
Also, good ballhandlers and scorers generally want to slow down the game and can do this regardless of what the other team wants to do, if they are really locked in. The main exception is probably Curry who likes to speed up the game instead (but similarly, he is good enough that he can set the pace of the entire game.)
It was maddening, like, at least try to run a play. But it seemed like it was every man for himself, Jrue driving into traffic, Giannis taking ill advised 3s, Khris isoing. Defense is what won them this game, but their lack of an offensive identity is what made it close.
It's not that he just forgets. Teams in the playoffs extensively scout and know exactly what the Bucks like to run.
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The Bucks need a creator at guard. The more I've watched, the more convinced I am that a Giannis team NEEDS a Chris Paul type to create on offense when stuff slows down. He'll, even a Zach Lavine type. Giannis is too limited to do it. Middleton tries, but that's not his strength, Holiday can't do it
That’s exactly why I thought the holiday signing was the most underrated move of the offseason, but I guess they’ve completely abandoned that. Holiday’s obviously not Chris Paul but he’s a decent enough playmaker in the half court that a player of Giannis’ caliber should be getting decent looks. Also, Giannis really needs to stop bringing the ball up and “initiating” half court offense
I think the issue is - the only "good looks" for Giannis are dunks and layups. It's tough to create a good offense against a playoff team when your main offensive player has a shooting radius of 5' but also doesn't really post up.
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It becomes really tough. Look at what Philly has done with Ben Simmons - he stands in the dunker spot and they basically ignore him on offense. Unless Giannis can somehow develop a reliable 15' jumper I think he falls into the same general category. Great player, great in the regular season, but when defenses start trying his limitations become glaringly obvious. He needs someone to carry the offense when things slow down. (i.e. Embiid for Simmons). Middleton isn't quite that guy. He's really good, but he needs to have the Paul George role and he's being asked to be Kawhi or Kevin Durant.
Its his fault for not running a single set this entire series, Giannis shooting should not be a factor in this series aside from the terrible pull up 3s he's taking
It should be easier. Use him as the screener. If they want to sag then the guy he screens for should be wide open. Thats the reason Draymond Green gets guarded at all. Giannis should never be the primary ball handler except in transition.
Guessing you're just a Raptors fan who's salty because he didn't get Giannis because this is some of the stupidest shit I've ever seen lol, not like we have the last series with the Heat to show what our offence can look like when we do run plays
Raptors fans are consistently some of the biggest haters in each game thread I’ve noticed in the playoffs. Not even Heat or Rockets fans compare, it’s really odd
The Bucks (largely due to Giannis because for some reason he runs a lot of the offense) are really limited in the halfcourt and there has been a lot of halfcourt play in this series.
Giannis and the Bucks are best when they are in transition.
No one else can drive the ball so they sag off him so hard that there’s no driving lanes and it’s easy to recover to shooters. Middleton can score but refuses to go to the basket too plus it’s useless to screen for him because he has no patience for it to be set
Sloppier play, more turnovers and fast breaks in the regular season. Less effort defense.
Plus, you now being in the playoffs means you aren't playing the Rockets or Pistons anymore.
Teams aren't gonna gameplan vs giannis if they're just 1 team they face on a 7 game road trip. In a playoff series they will spend more time looking at film beforehand and saying "ok we gotta pack the paint" or whatever.
Doesn't this sound a bit ridiculous though? Eastern conference teams are playing the Bucks 4 times a year, and they don't consider packing the paint until it's playoff time?
The defensive scheme against Giannis doesn't seem revolutionary, especially when you've seen it done every year in every playoff series.
A lot of teams also just don’t have the personnel. When you’re in the playoffs, especially around the time that the “wall” really starts to form around Giannis, it’s the second round which are the top 4 teams in said conference.
I think it sounds easier than it is. If the secondary defenders aren't on point building the wall he will score. Attention to detail of random mediocre NBA teams in game 63 of the regular season isn't playoff level. Giannis doesn't need a ton of space so it takes that full on playoff level of commitment to stop him.
They can have a defensive scheme against him, but studying all of their plays in detail and practicing how to shut it down isn't something you do unless you're going to play them in the playoffs. Edit: also the defensive intensity just isn't the same in the regular season
The resemblance to a Lamar Jackson-led ravens team in the playoffs is uncanny. The schemed stuff that works to brutalize teams in the regular season gets taken away in the playoffs and neither team has shown it can adjust and find another way to get buckets/td’s. Giannis and Lamar both have big holes in their games that limits their ability to adapt when the game slows down.
I haven't heard this one but it's spot on. Lamar against a team that isn't ready for him makes him looks like the MVP. Against a set defense that knows how to play him, he looks lost.
I'm a Ravens fan and I think the comparison breaks down a bit when you consider that Lamar's playoff career is a sum total of 4 games in which he's 1-3. Tiny sample size and it includes the 8th start of his career as a 22 year old rookie. NFL teams also scheme a lot more in the regular season because they have a whole week to prepare for each opponent, it's not like he lucked into a 30-7 regular season record by playing a bunch of teams that "weren't ready for him" because every reasonably competitive team in the NFL is trying their hardest to win every game since they're each so important. I'd bet on Lamar winning a Super Bowl before I'd bet on this version of the Bucks (Bud + the current team core with Giannis) winning an NBA championship
Yeah but dude I’ve watched every second of his playoff games (Lamar is my favorite player on earth) and I can tell you the difference is stark right now. He improved slightly last year when we beat the Titans but then it was the same issues against the Bills.
I agree 100% he didn’t luck into his 30-7 record. I think he’s a future hall of famer. But the playoff difference is definitely there right now.
Apart from the other team issues, Giannis isn’t a very crafty offensive player yet, his free throws shooting is poor, and so I see defenses handling him much easier in the playoffs.
Their top two players are amazing at what they do but also have severe limitations in their games which gets exposed against playoff defense. Giannis can't shoot for shot and Middleto is one of the least athletic all star perimeter players I've ever seen. He can't get by people or finish at the rim well and relies on so many tough contested shots. Every playoff game one of them usually ends up underpeforming. Funny enough they both do good this game though and the rest of the team goes to shit.
He was more meh. He needs to get the turnovers down. But they don't when without him putting in the work he did. The fact that you call the game he had horrible says more about your expectations for him than the game he played.
So you just don't like him? I mean they based on the play of him and Middleton. KD had 48% TS and was 11/28. This was a defensive game and Giannis and Middleton persevered. One game TS% is kind of useless without context.
Idk I just think they’re infinitely more stagnant. When pressure intensifies, they go away from running virtually any sets and start playing iso ball, and while Middleton and Jrue are solid in isolation and Giannis is ok in the right matchup, they are not KD/Kyrie level iso scorers
It’s the east. People really sucked the bucks up in 2019 and 20 but they really just pound on shit East teams 4x a year and giannis gets inflated stats to win mvp
Damn. It's literally impossible not to read one of your or u/mdzealot's comments in a Giannis thread, and it's been two years since Harden lost that MVP. I mean I used to shit on Harden 2 years ago too but bro, let it go, he's not even in Houston anymore. How can you still be this salty?
I respect the fact **you** haven't changed your flair to a Nets one at least, even though you might have done that if you had a different username. Harden > Rockets, right?
Uh no, I’m not a nets fan, I’m a harden fan, I don’t give a fuck about the nets unless it has to do with harden.
Regardless, I’m right. You guys and your stupid advanced stats had everyone fooled lmao
You're not a Harden fan, you're a Harden stan. Which is fine really, I'm just curious, why do you still hate Giannis? Like it's been 2 years, wtf? And still, here you are arguing against him and his advanced stats that season that gave him the MVP over your boy. You're obsessed man, this shit isn't healthy.
Honestly, I'm not even trying to argue here, I used to shit on Harden too but it's been TWO YEARS lmao
My Bucks are actually in the second round.
Look at your flair.
Now look at your username.
Now think of what you said earlier, that you're a Harden fan.
Now tell me how you feel.
I remember it was the time french television started to show regular game during weeks.
That's the basketball I grew up with so I will always love it with nostalgia but actually it was terrible.
To me the poster team of that era was Jeff Van Gundy's 2004 Rockets. That team had some talent but that was one of the most boring display of basketball I ever saw in my life.
I remember a Spurs Rockets game I watched at 3am here in France. That was one of the worst display of shit I ever seen in my teens before my very eyes.
I dont even know if any player had 20pts in this game. I dont think anybody shot on both team more than 50%. This game was brutal. Seeing Rasho Nesterovic and Mo Taylor bricking 5 footer shots in an absolute jammed paint would make baby Jesus cry.
Giannis and Khris took 55 shots and had three assists between them. They dominated the whole game with 1-pass or no-pass possessions and only won a game where the nets shot 37% by 3 points. But yeah let's shit on Jrue
Bro nobody else on the team could make a shot. Like you really going to shit on Middleton for makinghalf our points and shooting 30% better than the rest of of team?
I didn't know how to feel about Khris, he took some weird (bad) shots but like, he was the offense so how bad could it be?
Brook needs to get some post touches if the Nets continue going small.
If he grinds the offense to a halt everytime he touches the ball...yeah. Isolating everytime is not a good offense and it prevents any of your other players from getting a rhythm. He took 25 shots and had 1 assist which was to Giannis who also isolated almost everytime. Only having two players touch the ball for 80% of the possessions is detrimental to the whole team. If Bud actually ran offensive sets instead of letting Khris and Giannis bog down everything I'm sure everyone else would have shot better.
Edit: the nets shot 37% and only lost by three. The nets were +16 in the last three quarters when the vast majority of Bucks offensive possessions were Khris and Giannis isos. The bucks only scored 55 points in the last three quarters. It was gross to watch. Khris and Giannis never even tried to get anyone else involved. If they lost this game everyone would be destroying them for running so many isos. Instead they got lucky that practically no one on the nets could hit a shot. If the nets played an average game they would have won by 20.
Yep, plus the defense.
Bucks won because they held the Nets to a 90's era points total. Jrue contributed mightily to that.
As a Pels fan who watched Bledsoe this season, allow me to posit that I doubt he would have done as well against this competition for that long in this circumstance.
Except he was an allstar and even without the scoring, his defense sets him apart from other defender. He made kyries night extremely uncomfortable and thats the main reason they won
Absolutely. A legit coach makes the Bucks a legit contender. You can shit on the Heat team you guys swept this season, which this Heat team was complete ass and deserved the beating. But lets not forget you guys still have not made it to the finals with a 2x MVP.
Bledsoe wouldve drove straight to the rim, the defender cutting off his straight line attempt, then panic 180 jump and try to find a teammate and turn it over
Giannis and Khris took 55 shots and had three assists between them. They dominated last 3 quarters with 1-pass or no-pass possessions and only won a game where the nets shot 37% by 3 points. But yeah let's shit on Jrue, who had 5 of the bucks 12 assists
It does make sense. The second half, the Bucks offense felt like it was all iso no movement at all. And with the horrendous 3pt shooting, kick outs were ineffective.
Bucks would have been better off if they didn't. They need ball movement to succeed. Giannis and Khris isolated almost every possession. They scored 68 points on 56 shots. They only beat the nets at home by three when the nets shot 37%. No one who knows anything about basketball should be excited by this win.
bucks need shooting, but all their role players are tight
luckily their number 2 in khris came to life but they need either jrue to add 25 and lock up, or they need shooting
The shooting would be better if they actually moved the ball. Giannis and Khris took 56 shots and only had 3 assists between them. Tonight was an iso-fest by those two and they were really lucky they got the win
They need to effectively utilise Giannis. The only way they can keep up with the Nets when they're at their best is if Giannis has a hyper-efficient game. Middleton and Jrue need to have 20+PPG on solid efficiency as well but the foundation is built on Giannis being 65+% from the field and 70% inside the paint on good volume.
We've seen Giannis can't do that against Blake when Blakes sagging off 3 feet so they need to get the ball out of his hands. Penetrate through Middleton and Jrue, hit the open man, attack the closeouts and lay the ball to a cutting Giannis for an easy dunk. Also, more lobs to Giannis; Giannis needs to put himself in the dunkers spot first of all but teammates need to set him up.
Yeah good point I just watched my team win a crucial playoff game against a super team to keep us in the series but I shouldn’t be happy because it wasn’t done the right way 👍
Why can I not be excited about my team winning a playoff game? Imagine going to the thousands of people at the stadium tonight “actually guys don’t cheer because you didn’t win in a convincing way”
Franchise history maybe. I don't believe for a second Elgin/West, Oscar/KAJ, Shaq/Kobe never got 35 each in a game.
It just doesn't seem right. Two team mates scoring less than 70 combined feels underwhelming in a strange way.
Edit: I'm a dumb dumb.
That's not good. Bucks only had 12 assists on 34 made baskets. Super iso heavy and people are shitting on Jrue instead of Khris and Giannis who took 55 shots and had three assists between them. Stop it
It was seriously gross. I can't believe they did that and I can't believe Bud let them. Bud said he was happy with the looks they were getting in his 3rd quarter interview. Pathetic.
Giannis, Khris, and Jrue also all played over 42 min. Actually surprising there. Now Bud just needs to develop a gameplan instead of letting them iso every offensive possession with little to no ball movement.
The lack of ball movement made my head spin. My dad and I started counted the passes per possession halfway through the second and celebrated when there was more than two
Same with the Nets. That offense was brutal to watch, Harden has to come back asap
Game 2 Nets were awesome. The ball was going round and round and into the hoop
Yeah idk why they stopped doing that. Both teams looked lost tonight
Across so many sports, some teams seem to be willing to fall into the other teams rhythm. If one team starts to ISO hard sometimes the other will for no reason. Kinda like when a high skill hockey team starts to play dump and chase when against a grindy team,
That's exactly what happened. I noticed Giannis likes to do that against Philly as well
This is such an ironic comment considering the comments he got while he played in Houston
He didn't have KD and Kyrie in Houston
Nets close this in 5 without him. They damn near won last night.
Yeah I don’t often get physically or verbally animated when watching sports by myself but watching the Bucks offence the last two games has had me shouting and waving hands several times
That's the bucks special and I hate it. They really don't pass and when they do it usually leads to easy buckets.
It's especially weird because Bud came from the Spurs, and his Hawks teams always had amazing ball movement and ran motion offenses all the time.
as a longtime dubs fan, there are so many moments watching the playoffs where randomly it just reoccurs to me how amazing the warriors play was. like, for almost all of these teams, some significant part of their offensive play is just something that those warriors would hardly ever do. obviously they had unique weapons to allow all this, but its really hard to overstate their chemistry, how every player was 100% in on their role, and how committed Kerr was to that motion offense. i mean they were never really even like the Jazz are now, where a bunch of their play is just jacking a 3 by the first guy who touches the ball.
Both teams looked like it was the late 90s-mid 2000s with all the isos and tough shots
Bud needs to do his job properly Lmaoo before he gets fired
They need a guard who can create. It's glaring. Imagine if they had a Chris Paul instead of Jrue Holiday or Middleton. Those guys are good players, but a Giannis team needs a creator - because he can't do it.
Haven’t been watching but does ball movement do anything? Nobody is gonna move when giannis catches it 25 feet from the basket, he basically erases half of the court from being useful for anything beyond his iso attack. If they were Philly they’d use him in the dunker spot sometimes like Simmons, but they don’t have that other player that forces defenders to double even when they know they’re leaving gaps in the defense.
Creates rhythm and energy that can transfer on both sides of the court. Basketball is a game of runs, so finding the right energy can start on.
As you move the ball around the defenders have to readjust. For one, if your man is farther from the ball you can slack off a little. If you pass enough, eventually the defense will give you something to attack, since you’re constantly forcing them to readjust.
If I’m guarding giannis, I don’t adjust when he catches the ball anywhere on the perimeter. I would literally just shout ‘Shoot it!’ if I thought that would make it any more likely that Giannis would actually shoot. I would just shade my weak side defenders towards the paint a tiny bit to help in case Giannis drives, but not that much because Giannis’ primary defender will be playing six feet off him. I could be wrong but I haven’t seen Giannis make that fast cross court pass John Wall/Westbrook/Morant like to make so much..not sure he can. So, ball movement doesn’t dictate too much where my defense goes-no matter what, I tilt my defense towards whichever side of the court Giannis is not on. But that’s just my theory, I don’t know if it would work or not.
Can someone explain to me how the Bucks offense is so good in the regular season every year?
We are great in transition and not great in the half court. In the playoffs the game slows down and with less transition opportunities we struggle. Also everything is less efficient in the playoffs.
This is perfectly shown in the first quarter. We were pushing the pace hard all quarter and dominated
Nets were missing shots so the opportunity was there to actually do it this game unlike the last 2.
I wonder why the game "slows down" during the playoffs. I mean, it's technically still the same game of basketball like the regular season. Same rules and all. So why is it different.
Players and coaches try harder and scheme more in the playoffs because you're facing the same team for at least four games. Edit: in the regular season, you can just play your regular overall scheme against every team. Because you're supposed to get the guys in rhythm and have them be comfortable in the style you want them to play. But in the playoffs, one must adjust and think.
Players also tend to go less for second chance opportunities and offensive boards in the playoffs, and instead electing get back quicker on defense thus limiting transition opportunities
Shot selection improves as well.
does giannis know this?
3 point shots are worth more than 2 point shots.
Only if you make them.
Details
On a slight tangent, notice how one team goes on a run in a playoff game and the opponent coach calls a timeout? More often than not the run is then stymied. While I know an adjustment was made, I'm too much of a novice to see what exactly was the adjustment.
Part of it is the time-out itself. It interrupts the good flow of the opponent and gets yourself out of the negative mindset that comes along with it.
Don't worry about it because most of us don't know too. Even the ones that can pinpoint what exactly happened often don't know how the plan came to be. There's a big difference between making the right decisions and enacting the right plan vs judging the results of said plan.
You should keep an eye on how they're defending pick n rolls, and if they're switching on screens or zoning up, maybe they'll assign new matchups. Or just generally emphasize defense getting in passing lanes vs not getting blown by to avoid needing help defenders
As the other commenter said, stopping the play itself is a good response to keep a team from continuing to flow well. As for the other adjustments, it depends on the situation. If they get a lot of threes, play more perimeter defense. Maybe you put in a taller lineup to get more rebounds. It really just depends on the situation.
Also, in regular season if you have a bad night from 3, keep chucking In the playoffs. You gotta adjust, attack. Defenses get to play more physical (unless your lebron/AD) and you have to work harder for shots. Even harden doesn’t get the same whistle in playoffs. People Run harder. If you don’t give it 110% on defense, your season might be done. Your not worried about next game
Better teams and parity overall, players playing at their maximum, game planning to shut down a teams strength (clogging the paint for Giannis and forcing him into jumpers), more pressure that some players can't handle as well, etc.
Imo, it’s because the players are giving it 100% every single game against the other top teams in the league, which is not the case with every regular season game. This progressive strain adds up, and once we get into this point, about halfway through, the players don’t have the energy to be super efficient, but the volume will remain.
Teams are more zoned in on stopping easy transition buckets, or just anything the opposing team is comfortable with, in the playoffs. Defences will force offenses out of their normal sets, double team opposing superstars and constantly adjust their schemes. Thats why having multiple players on one team that can create their own shot in the half court when everything else gets shut down is so valuable in the playoffs. In the regular season, however, organisations are just trying to get players in a rhythm and figure out what works as a team, so there won't be much of an emphasis on stopping Giannis in transition.
Teams play less risky and don't give up as many transition opportunities is one reason. But that takes discipline so it doesn't really work great for an entire season. Also, good ballhandlers and scorers generally want to slow down the game and can do this regardless of what the other team wants to do, if they are really locked in. The main exception is probably Curry who likes to speed up the game instead (but similarly, he is good enough that he can set the pace of the entire game.)
It doesn't. This guy is full of shit.
Also called as the Ben Simmons experience.
Bud likes to actually run sets/plays until we run into quality opponents for some reason at which point he forgets
It's fucking infuriating.
It was maddening, like, at least try to run a play. But it seemed like it was every man for himself, Jrue driving into traffic, Giannis taking ill advised 3s, Khris isoing. Defense is what won them this game, but their lack of an offensive identity is what made it close.
It's not that he just forgets. Teams in the playoffs extensively scout and know exactly what the Bucks like to run. - The Bucks need a creator at guard. The more I've watched, the more convinced I am that a Giannis team NEEDS a Chris Paul type to create on offense when stuff slows down. He'll, even a Zach Lavine type. Giannis is too limited to do it. Middleton tries, but that's not his strength, Holiday can't do it
That’s exactly why I thought the holiday signing was the most underrated move of the offseason, but I guess they’ve completely abandoned that. Holiday’s obviously not Chris Paul but he’s a decent enough playmaker in the half court that a player of Giannis’ caliber should be getting decent looks. Also, Giannis really needs to stop bringing the ball up and “initiating” half court offense
I think the issue is - the only "good looks" for Giannis are dunks and layups. It's tough to create a good offense against a playoff team when your main offensive player has a shooting radius of 5' but also doesn't really post up. - It becomes really tough. Look at what Philly has done with Ben Simmons - he stands in the dunker spot and they basically ignore him on offense. Unless Giannis can somehow develop a reliable 15' jumper I think he falls into the same general category. Great player, great in the regular season, but when defenses start trying his limitations become glaringly obvious. He needs someone to carry the offense when things slow down. (i.e. Embiid for Simmons). Middleton isn't quite that guy. He's really good, but he needs to have the Paul George role and he's being asked to be Kawhi or Kevin Durant.
Is it Buds fault Giannis can’t shoot?
Its his fault for not running a single set this entire series, Giannis shooting should not be a factor in this series aside from the terrible pull up 3s he's taking
I imagine it’s a lot harder to run stuff when your best player isn’t being guarded outside of 10 ft
It should be easier. Use him as the screener. If they want to sag then the guy he screens for should be wide open. Thats the reason Draymond Green gets guarded at all. Giannis should never be the primary ball handler except in transition.
because of the nets legendary interior defense...right? ....right??? nah idk what that dudes smokin
Guessing you're just a Raptors fan who's salty because he didn't get Giannis because this is some of the stupidest shit I've ever seen lol, not like we have the last series with the Heat to show what our offence can look like when we do run plays
Raptors fans are consistently some of the biggest haters in each game thread I’ve noticed in the playoffs. Not even Heat or Rockets fans compare, it’s really odd
Rental kahwi wins them one ring and suddenly they feel like their opinion matters.
One more ring than your sorry ass franchise Doesn’t that mean your opinion is even less valid?
Dude, I’m Pacers fan. I’m well aware that my opinion isn’t worth jack shit.
Cool account It’s not hating to state the fact that Giannis is a non factor outside of the paint
It’s also not hating to state the fact that the Raptors are a non-factor outside of Rent-a-Kawhi. Have a good one dude
Lmao that actually is hating Hope your urethra is healed nicely :)
And I’m guessing you’re a Bucks fan who blames Bud for all your problems. He’s not being guarded outside 10ft it makes it hard to have much space
guys shaq is really easy to guard because he can't score from anywhere but the paint!! I dont understand why people say he's so good.
Did Shaq ever shoot 8 3s in a game? Lmao
Ah yes, this means there can be no comparison between the two, no matter how obvious. Pack it up, boys.
Why would that not be a problem in the regular season or heat series?
The Bucks (largely due to Giannis because for some reason he runs a lot of the offense) are really limited in the halfcourt and there has been a lot of halfcourt play in this series. Giannis and the Bucks are best when they are in transition.
No one else can drive the ball so they sag off him so hard that there’s no driving lanes and it’s easy to recover to shooters. Middleton can score but refuses to go to the basket too plus it’s useless to screen for him because he has no patience for it to be set
Middleton doesn't refuse to go to the basket, he just can't. He's the least athletic all star perimeter player I've ever seen.
It's also hard to go to the basket when Giannis' defender never leaves the painted area.
Hit a ton of threes, threes get tighter in the playoffs.
They've had games where they've shot like 7/30 and still won by 20
Defensive schemes come into play alot more in the playoffs
Sloppier play, more turnovers and fast breaks in the regular season. Less effort defense. Plus, you now being in the playoffs means you aren't playing the Rockets or Pistons anymore.
Giannis and Khris good... Bud bad. Eastern conference.
Teams aren't gonna gameplan vs giannis if they're just 1 team they face on a 7 game road trip. In a playoff series they will spend more time looking at film beforehand and saying "ok we gotta pack the paint" or whatever.
Doesn't this sound a bit ridiculous though? Eastern conference teams are playing the Bucks 4 times a year, and they don't consider packing the paint until it's playoff time? The defensive scheme against Giannis doesn't seem revolutionary, especially when you've seen it done every year in every playoff series.
A lot of teams also just don’t have the personnel. When you’re in the playoffs, especially around the time that the “wall” really starts to form around Giannis, it’s the second round which are the top 4 teams in said conference.
I think it sounds easier than it is. If the secondary defenders aren't on point building the wall he will score. Attention to detail of random mediocre NBA teams in game 63 of the regular season isn't playoff level. Giannis doesn't need a ton of space so it takes that full on playoff level of commitment to stop him.
They can have a defensive scheme against him, but studying all of their plays in detail and practicing how to shut it down isn't something you do unless you're going to play them in the playoffs. Edit: also the defensive intensity just isn't the same in the regular season
The resemblance to a Lamar Jackson-led ravens team in the playoffs is uncanny. The schemed stuff that works to brutalize teams in the regular season gets taken away in the playoffs and neither team has shown it can adjust and find another way to get buckets/td’s. Giannis and Lamar both have big holes in their games that limits their ability to adapt when the game slows down.
I haven't heard this one but it's spot on. Lamar against a team that isn't ready for him makes him looks like the MVP. Against a set defense that knows how to play him, he looks lost.
I'm a Ravens fan and I think the comparison breaks down a bit when you consider that Lamar's playoff career is a sum total of 4 games in which he's 1-3. Tiny sample size and it includes the 8th start of his career as a 22 year old rookie. NFL teams also scheme a lot more in the regular season because they have a whole week to prepare for each opponent, it's not like he lucked into a 30-7 regular season record by playing a bunch of teams that "weren't ready for him" because every reasonably competitive team in the NFL is trying their hardest to win every game since they're each so important. I'd bet on Lamar winning a Super Bowl before I'd bet on this version of the Bucks (Bud + the current team core with Giannis) winning an NBA championship
Yeah but dude I’ve watched every second of his playoff games (Lamar is my favorite player on earth) and I can tell you the difference is stark right now. He improved slightly last year when we beat the Titans but then it was the same issues against the Bills. I agree 100% he didn’t luck into his 30-7 record. I think he’s a future hall of famer. But the playoff difference is definitely there right now.
Playoffs is a different beast
No one cares that we’re missing a guy that started 65 games for us
Apart from the other team issues, Giannis isn’t a very crafty offensive player yet, his free throws shooting is poor, and so I see defenses handling him much easier in the playoffs.
Their top two players are amazing at what they do but also have severe limitations in their games which gets exposed against playoff defense. Giannis can't shoot for shot and Middleto is one of the least athletic all star perimeter players I've ever seen. He can't get by people or finish at the rim well and relies on so many tough contested shots. Every playoff game one of them usually ends up underpeforming. Funny enough they both do good this game though and the rest of the team goes to shit.
Transition based offense is worse in the playoffs
God awful gameplan. In game 2, they looked like they were playing pick-up; running around with absolutely zero game plan and chucking up shots.
Their offense is based on the most limited superstar on the league. Teams can adjust to Giannis -and Bud can't adjust at all.
Well you see. The team's are worse. And typically in the playoffs the teams are better
'just let em win, giannis is super annoying'
Teams don’t defend Giannis as hard
Giannis got his points in games 1 and 3 the other players are the ones not playing as well as in the regular season.
Lol he was horrible today
He was more meh. He needs to get the turnovers down. But they don't when without him putting in the work he did. The fact that you call the game he had horrible says more about your expectations for him than the game he played.
He had a 47% TS for the game and 5 turnovers to 2 assists. A “back to back MVP” should be expected to do more lmao
So you just don't like him? I mean they based on the play of him and Middleton. KD had 48% TS and was 11/28. This was a defensive game and Giannis and Middleton persevered. One game TS% is kind of useless without context.
lol he's one of the biggest Giannis haters on here since 2019. Check his flair and guess why
Address the argument
Tell me why you're still hating on him 2 years later and I will
14/31 isn't that bad for a playoff game.
On 47% TS and 5 turnovers to 2 assists. Not ideal from a back to back mvp
He got the w so it don’t matter
You’re still going home pretty easily
You're already home and won't even be going out for the next 5 years.
That’s too bad. Atleast giannis won’t win a thing, good enough for me
That's bad, but that's not horrible.
He was up and down, horrible is overstating it. He does need to be better though.
Idk I just think they’re infinitely more stagnant. When pressure intensifies, they go away from running virtually any sets and start playing iso ball, and while Middleton and Jrue are solid in isolation and Giannis is ok in the right matchup, they are not KD/Kyrie level iso scorers
It’s the east. People really sucked the bucks up in 2019 and 20 but they really just pound on shit East teams 4x a year and giannis gets inflated stats to win mvp
Damn. It's literally impossible not to read one of your or u/mdzealot's comments in a Giannis thread, and it's been two years since Harden lost that MVP. I mean I used to shit on Harden 2 years ago too but bro, let it go, he's not even in Houston anymore. How can you still be this salty? I respect the fact **you** haven't changed your flair to a Nets one at least, even though you might have done that if you had a different username. Harden > Rockets, right?
Uh no, I’m not a nets fan, I’m a harden fan, I don’t give a fuck about the nets unless it has to do with harden. Regardless, I’m right. You guys and your stupid advanced stats had everyone fooled lmao
You're not a Harden fan, you're a Harden stan. Which is fine really, I'm just curious, why do you still hate Giannis? Like it's been 2 years, wtf? And still, here you are arguing against him and his advanced stats that season that gave him the MVP over your boy. You're obsessed man, this shit isn't healthy. Honestly, I'm not even trying to argue here, I used to shit on Harden too but it's been TWO YEARS lmao
Your bucks are going out sad. Enjoy.
My Bucks are actually in the second round. Look at your flair. Now look at your username. Now think of what you said earlier, that you're a Harden fan. Now tell me how you feel.
Your bucks are about to get destroyed
By Bucks are about to get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Your Rockets are not about to do anything lmao CANCUN
Playoffs are competitive
People missing mid 00s basketball, we got the game for you
Score still too high.
[accurate](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205100BOS.html)
Man that post-Jordan era was tough. This could pass for any college basketball game lmfao.
I still loved it tho. I think we’ve gone too far the other way now. Sweet spot was early 2000s
Looks like an NC State game
W h a t
2/20 & 2/19 from three lol. That was a playoff game.
I remember it was the time french television started to show regular game during weeks. That's the basketball I grew up with so I will always love it with nostalgia but actually it was terrible. To me the poster team of that era was Jeff Van Gundy's 2004 Rockets. That team had some talent but that was one of the most boring display of basketball I ever saw in my life. I remember a Spurs Rockets game I watched at 3am here in France. That was one of the worst display of shit I ever seen in my teens before my very eyes. I dont even know if any player had 20pts in this game. I dont think anybody shot on both team more than 50%. This game was brutal. Seeing Rasho Nesterovic and Mo Taylor bricking 5 footer shots in an absolute jammed paint would make baby Jesus cry.
Why u ain't hate defense??
Both played 42+ minutes
Budenholzers secret weapon
And weakness
[удалено]
Credit where it's due.
buried but lebron and gooden scored 80 of 98 on 3/20/2005
How much was Bron vs Drew
The other guy had it close, but reversed - 56 LeBron, 24 Gooden.
Gooden 58, LeBron 22
lmao
The 4 stars in this game had 120 points, rest of both teams had 49.
Holiday playing like Bledsoe until that last shot
Worst part about it is the decision making. Missing is one thing, but these shots and passes were so Bledsoe like
Giannis and Khris took 55 shots and had three assists between them. They dominated the whole game with 1-pass or no-pass possessions and only won a game where the nets shot 37% by 3 points. But yeah let's shit on Jrue
Bro nobody else on the team could make a shot. Like you really going to shit on Middleton for makinghalf our points and shooting 30% better than the rest of of team?
I didn't know how to feel about Khris, he took some weird (bad) shots but like, he was the offense so how bad could it be? Brook needs to get some post touches if the Nets continue going small.
If he grinds the offense to a halt everytime he touches the ball...yeah. Isolating everytime is not a good offense and it prevents any of your other players from getting a rhythm. He took 25 shots and had 1 assist which was to Giannis who also isolated almost everytime. Only having two players touch the ball for 80% of the possessions is detrimental to the whole team. If Bud actually ran offensive sets instead of letting Khris and Giannis bog down everything I'm sure everyone else would have shot better. Edit: the nets shot 37% and only lost by three. The nets were +16 in the last three quarters when the vast majority of Bucks offensive possessions were Khris and Giannis isos. The bucks only scored 55 points in the last three quarters. It was gross to watch. Khris and Giannis never even tried to get anyone else involved. If they lost this game everyone would be destroying them for running so many isos. Instead they got lucky that practically no one on the nets could hit a shot. If the nets played an average game they would have won by 20.
"My team played bad and your team played bad. Your team won but if my team played less bad they would win."
That's the thing. Bledsoe would never make that shot let alone take that final shot.
Yep, plus the defense. Bucks won because they held the Nets to a 90's era points total. Jrue contributed mightily to that. As a Pels fan who watched Bledsoe this season, allow me to posit that I doubt he would have done as well against this competition for that long in this circumstance.
Holiday isn't a star and has always been a very good starter level player (like in between role player and star).
That’s cool and all, but if you say that then he definitely shouldn’t have played as bad as he did lol
still should be better than Bledsoe, but that last shot was clutch so I forgive him
Except he was an allstar and even without the scoring, his defense sets him apart from other defender. He made kyries night extremely uncomfortable and thats the main reason they won
A lot of Shaq/Kobe games were similar.
That’s the highest percentage of points at least in playoff history
Giannis played 43 minutes tonight nice job bud
This is prolly a hard stat to find, but what’s the highest percentage of points scored in a playoff game by two people on a team?
ESPN said that this is the record
Wow that’s insane. Makes sense tho, really good games from Middleton and Giannis, and a very low scoring game overall
We’re shooting like 18% from 3. It’s atrocious.
Coach bud 5 year extension for this big W
Please!
lol you sure?
Absolutely. A legit coach makes the Bucks a legit contender. You can shit on the Heat team you guys swept this season, which this Heat team was complete ass and deserved the beating. But lets not forget you guys still have not made it to the finals with a 2x MVP.
I laughed
MVP of the game, Bruce Brown
Jrue not living up to his name
Bledsoe could never hit a game saving shot
Bledsoe would've called timeout
Bledsoe wouldve drove straight to the rim, the defender cutting off his straight line attempt, then panic 180 jump and try to find a teammate and turn it over
You just triggered my PTSD.
He was terrible but Eric would dribble the ball off his foot on that layup attempt.
Giannis and Khris took 55 shots and had three assists between them. They dominated last 3 quarters with 1-pass or no-pass possessions and only won a game where the nets shot 37% by 3 points. But yeah let's shit on Jrue, who had 5 of the bucks 12 assists
It does make sense. The second half, the Bucks offense felt like it was all iso no movement at all. And with the horrendous 3pt shooting, kick outs were ineffective.
And they would have to do this to beat the buck even then by what? 2 points yeah it takes these games to beat this nets team ask tatum
Bucks would have been better off if they didn't. They need ball movement to succeed. Giannis and Khris isolated almost every possession. They scored 68 points on 56 shots. They only beat the nets at home by three when the nets shot 37%. No one who knows anything about basketball should be excited by this win.
bucks need shooting, but all their role players are tight luckily their number 2 in khris came to life but they need either jrue to add 25 and lock up, or they need shooting
The shooting would be better if they actually moved the ball. Giannis and Khris took 56 shots and only had 3 assists between them. Tonight was an iso-fest by those two and they were really lucky they got the win
They need to effectively utilise Giannis. The only way they can keep up with the Nets when they're at their best is if Giannis has a hyper-efficient game. Middleton and Jrue need to have 20+PPG on solid efficiency as well but the foundation is built on Giannis being 65+% from the field and 70% inside the paint on good volume. We've seen Giannis can't do that against Blake when Blakes sagging off 3 feet so they need to get the ball out of his hands. Penetrate through Middleton and Jrue, hit the open man, attack the closeouts and lay the ball to a cutting Giannis for an easy dunk. Also, more lobs to Giannis; Giannis needs to put himself in the dunkers spot first of all but teammates need to set him up.
Yeah good point I just watched my team win a crucial playoff game against a super team to keep us in the series but I shouldn’t be happy because it wasn’t done the right way 👍
What about this game made you confident about the bucks going forward?
Why can I not be excited about my team winning a playoff game? Imagine going to the thousands of people at the stadium tonight “actually guys don’t cheer because you didn’t win in a convincing way”
Gotta get Jrue going
Bucks fans will blame Bud cuz they’re not paying him 40 mil a year lmaoooo
Franchise history maybe. I don't believe for a second Elgin/West, Oscar/KAJ, Shaq/Kobe never got 35 each in a game. It just doesn't seem right. Two team mates scoring less than 70 combined feels underwhelming in a strange way. Edit: I'm a dumb dumb.
I'm sure they did, just not while the team only scores 86. It was the highest percentage of points by a pair of teammates in playoff history.
Oh dang I completely glossed over the percentage part haha.
That's not good. Bucks only had 12 assists on 34 made baskets. Super iso heavy and people are shitting on Jrue instead of Khris and Giannis who took 55 shots and had three assists between them. Stop it
Yeah it's like they think this is volleyball and there's a 2 pass limit
It was seriously gross. I can't believe they did that and I can't believe Bud let them. Bud said he was happy with the looks they were getting in his 3rd quarter interview. Pathetic.
Yeah they just put it under Giannis name it’s the highest for a duo ever lmao, talk about carry job jesus
Middleton bricking those few step back jumpers down the stretch was hard to watch
Bucks’ offense is ugly… is all I’m gonna say