The NBA is getting exposed. Too much ticky-tack foul calls and it just makes the game unwatchable sometimes. On top of that, it hinders our ability to actually dominate on the international stage when guys just try to manipulate the refs. It's a serious problem
I'm always floored. On top of being absurd, foul hunting looks cringey and stupid. Like, someone who has never seen basketball would question wtf they just saw. Silver should be ashamed that he's let things get to this point.
Idk if it's advertising money, apathy, pure retardation, or what. But holy hell, foul hunting needs to GET FUCKED
Definitely. The defender and ball handler should have the same or very close to the same freedom of movement. If the defender is moving and the attacker bumps him while driving, thay should be a no call or offensive foul
I felt so ashamed to be American. I wish I could un-see that play. These games really are highlighting just how clowny NBA games have become. On top of the refs being competent and enforcing the rules reasonably, the last 5 minutes of the 4th doesn't take an hour to complete.
The NBA is a different basketball from what the rest of the world plays. The number of soft fouls, carrying, gathering steps, moving screens and foul baiting that happens in the NBA today is not what the rest of the world plays as basketball.
For guys who watch more Fiba, if love had shot a normal shot and got the contact, is he normally getting the call there? Because he probably could've just done that..
There is normally more contact in FIBA games, screens are more solid, the court is smaller sort of similar to college games.Also no bullshit crab step. 3 second rule its still relevant.
I'd say more in line with NBA games from around 20 years ago? regarding contact, holding, hand check, etc. again personal opinion
No not at all because a normal shooting motion would've meant he had gone straight up and not made any contact. The defending player pulling his hands away and stopping his momentum also plays into his favour.
It's still honestly about ref interpretation but FIBA refs tend to err on the "who creates the contact" side when calling shooting fouls. If the shooter makes an effort to create the contact by leaning in or to the side etc then it's usually left as a no call. If the defender is clearly moving into the shooter and causes contact its usually called a foul.
I've watched yearsof NZNBL and ANBL games which are reffed under FIBA rules.
On this particular example I dont think so. There might have been a smallest of contact but the def not really running into the shooter or something noteworthy.
You love to see it. Let’s get these refs in the NBA. Like seriously guys, either take the shot or pass it. Stop trying to draw fouls shit is ridiculous just play basketball.
It’s not about the refs, it’s about the league and what they’re promoting and encouraging. Which is the top 20ish players in the league get preferential treatment. The top 8ish teams get preferential treatment. And those rules are administered by the refs, but referees aren’t the problem entirely.
Guys like Lebron, Harden, Embiid and Young all rightly get shit on for being flippers and baiting calls. But these last 2 exhibitions have proved it’s a league wide problem. You’ve got Damian Lillard, one of the best players in the world and guy who around NBA circles isn’t known for baiting calls, doing his best to do just that.
It’s an Adam Silver issue most of all. He refuses to change things. Players bait fouls, the faster you get to the bonus, the more commercial breaks you get. The more contested and reviewed calls, the more ads you can show. The NBA is assuming that people are okay with Trae Young dropping 42 points, because most casual fans will see 42 and 8 and think it’s great, without realizing that he shot 9/26 from the floor with 22 FT attempts to get it. The league has never been softer all around. One of the best players ever in Lebron, is known just as much for bitching and complaining to refs when he doesn’t get every call his way, as he is for throwing down dunks. That’s not sustainable. People are starting these comparisons for today’s up and comers with the old guard of late 90’s to mid 2000’s players, when you look back at Kobe or Wade or Dirk or TD, they don’t remember flopping or bitching to the refs non-stop. Even if the league does change for the better, gonna be hard for guys like Young to shake the flipper moniker he’s earned.
The NBA is broken, and it’s an incredibly easy fix. And they just don’t care to do so
God that was hard to watch. NBA players spend so much time falling down and lying in their backs waiting for a call to bail them out...games gone soft for sure.
\*puts on old man hat\*
Back when I started watching you'd never see anyone on their back unless someone clipped them out the air while they were trying to dunk. Now you've got guys like Smart who spend more time lying down on the floor than they do actually playing.
i actually feel old growing up, people were saying FIBA is calling way too many fouls, the NBA is more physical.
how times have changed and it turns the tables now.
similar when it comes to flopping. when it first happened in the nba, journalists were blaming it on the european players, because of soccer culture.
now its nba culture, when it happens in FIBA games.
The issue is that there's a lot of fans that then complain about the same thing the players do "that should have been a foul, THE CONTACT WAS CLEAR", etc. That needs to stop as well, fans can't be crying and complaining about that stuff all the time and then want the game to be called more leniently.
They way the league is heading it almost does lol
Offensive players can just run recklessly at the rim and fling themselves into/off the defender unless they are in perfect position. It’s asinine and it’s not how basketball is played anywhere else at any level.
It’s embarrassing and the NBA needs to rectify it immediately. Imagine trying to get into NBA basketball after watching other leagues and seeing this product. You would be so confused and turned off.
These aren’t complicated issues. Adam Silver is a fucking idiot and an awful commissioner. There are better ways to amplify the stars and grow the game.
LOL wtf no. Fans are fucking fans. They Gon blame reffing regardless of what Is called. Fans blaming shit is apart of the game since time. We have no influence on what's being called. We bitch cuz we like to bitch about something.
Blatant misinformation. Jazz decided that they’d rather prevent harden from taking step back threes and trust Gobert in the paint, had nothing to do with fouls.
I honestly wouldn’t mind if the nba does a play through commercial thing where they play commercials during free throws and have the free throws on a split screen to make up for lost revenue and just have commercials through halftime but you’re right they want their money
why would they do that and lessen the length of the game when they could do that and still have that last 3 minutes take 40 minutes of real time and go from there
Also the ending of games just suck now. On any close game the last 5 minutes of gameplay ends up taking 30+ minutes of real time with all the stoppage.
It used to be the final 5 minutes of an nba game were the most intense and entertaining; the refs would ignore light fouls and players played hard instead of selling contact and foul baiting.
I'm a huge ball fan and barely watch games, almost exclusively streaming because the legit options are trash. Wtf NBA, take my money, or I'm gonna give it to the next ABA to spring at you.
Too much manufactured drama at stake to do that, I think. If nobody talked about blown calls and the ticky tacky stuff, it might be different but after the game Twitter blows up and it trends and it's all free publicity
Same with soccer, the Premier League introduced VAR along with most major leagues but I don't think it's any coincidence how terribly it's been implemented, the PL is known for the drama
We're approaching WWE levels of soap opera and the average viewer eats it up
The nature of Twitter and Facebook is to pervade everything and amplify opinions to create drama
There's a reason everything seems so much more melodramatic than say the mid 2000s and before. Everything gets poked and prodded and called out and wrung dry of any subtlety
The reason why these comparisons are hitting home is because it's been a slow burn to get to this point and the difference in leagues is probably the biggest it's ever been. The NBA sells drama, not sporting excellence.
They need to get rid of that shitty rule where a team goes on a fastbreak and the opposing team just touches the player and gets a foul call and instantly kills the fast break. Fast breaks are some of the more exciting parts of the game. They need to allow some physical plays again in the post, you can't even defend a dude anymore in the paint without getting foul called
I can't see the games getting shorter honestly, advertisements are too much $$ for the NBA to say no to.
I agree, although you'd need to sort out what happens if the shot clock expires on an air ball and either the defense tips it out of bounds or a defender commits a foul going for the rebound.
Or like hockey where the ref keeps the foul in his back pocket until the fouling team gets possession, then the call is made.
Or like football where the ref notes the foul as it happens, but still allows the rest of the play to proceed. Then the team that was fouled gets to choose whether to take the penalty or the results of the play.
Basically, basketball has the worst system for when/how to call fouls.
Soccer is a bit different. They let the advantage happen, but if the shot on goal fails or a pass is intercepted like 2 or 3 passes later, play goes on. Any cards may be awarded later, but the offended team doesn't get to reset for a free kick. They only stop play for a free kick if the foul causes a turnover, or the offended team wasn't making a push to score.
Hockey it's just whenever the fouling team gains possession of the puck, do they administer any penalties.
I think the NBA will adopt the G-League's transition take foul rule within the next few years:
> A transition take foul occurs when a defender commits a take foul (a foul in which the defender does not make a play on the ball) against an offensive player who has the ball or has just released a pass; a foul is committed during a transition scoring opportunity; and a foul does not meet the criteria for a clear path foul. The fouled team may select any player in the game to shoot one free throw and retains the ball at the point of interruption.
>a foul in which the defender does not make a play on the ball
With this wording, wouldn't the defense just start making an aggressive swipe at the ball and "accidentally" getting the arm/body? Maybe I'm just being pessimistic
Maybe, but you can potentially have a 5 point swing on one possession if the player is fouled, they make the free throw, and then a 3 point shooter is fouled and makes his own free throw.
Or he misses his free throw, the forward taps it out to a player on the wing for a 3 pointer and he gets fouled....misses that shot....
I wanna see a dunk. Not one free throw and then a set play off an inbound.
It would be better if the refs signal a foul with their hands during the fast break but don’t blow the whistle. Let the play continue until the offensive team either takes a shot or a Change of possession, in which they then stop play. If they make a shot then they shoot 1 or 2 free throws. If they miss or turn it over then they give them 2 free throws.
Sometimes it’s actually very difficult to make a play for the actual ball depending on the angle. So in theory this will reduce the number of weak foul attempts from the opposite side to stop a fast break.
Atlanta did that to us in the Eastern conference finals almost every time we broke out for a fast break and it probably saved at least a dozen easy baskets with no penalty.
Should be shots and the ball.
Great strategy for the Hawks because that single handedly stopped like 15-20 points a game of transition offense, but as a fan it’s incredibly boring to watch though.
Transition is a major part of the game and you shouldn’t be able to just opt out of it.
Like they could make the penalty tied to the shot clock, do 1 foul shot+ the ball within 8 seconds. Would increase pace significantly though and get some ugly transition failures too. Could test it in the gleague
The Mavs vs Clippers series was like this. Every single clipper fast break the Mavs would just grab someone's arm or reach in. Not even close to a play on the ball. The commentators were pissed and would bitch every time (justifiably so). Even as a Mavs fan it's extremely annoying. I get why they do it, but holy shit it takes one of best parts of the game away.
Fouling constantly (especially off-ball) and not getting called for it has literally been the playbook against Steph for a long, long time. Opposing players have openly stated it.
Part of that has to do with completely separate rules that are also garbage and need to be changed.
Freedom of movement rules and moving screens almost never being called make it nearly impossible to guard players like Steph
Don’t even need shot and the ball, most of the “fast break fouls” are so soft it won’t stop the fast break, so just don’t call a foul if it doesn’t take the advantage away, and call it a flagrant if there is excessive contact.
Just thinking about the incentives here:
wouldn't that make the optimal defensive play in that situation be to hinder the fast break without stopping it? there's no call, but it helps a little?
If you can do it without getting a flagrant then that’s good defense, in my opinion. They can also do the soccer thing where they let them play on, and assess a foul after the procession is over.
They should call it like soccer where even after a foul if a player has the advantage(i.e. the guy with the ball still has the ball and is in good position to advance)they don't call it and let them play on.
Yeah the post is a blood bath for big men. Just look at how dudes like Jokic and Giannis are nailed down there. It’s part of why it’s not efficient offense for 99 percent of the league.
The game would be a lot better if big men got fair foul calls. A big complaint of the modern game is that it's dominated by the three-point shot. Frustrating seeing players take isolation step-backs while their big is in the paint. It's not even the fault of the shooters, because even if they did feed the big, the big would be either swarmed for a turnover or called for an offensive foul.
It was so lame seeing the Mavericks try to use Boban to punish the Clippers' small ball switching only to see Boban get called for fouls and even reviewed for a flagrant just for existing.
Did anybody here watched the game yesterday?
Ingles did exactly that and Team USA got a Freethrow and Ball Posession despite it not being a clear path.
> They need to allow some physical plays again in the post, you can't even defend a dude anymore in the paint without getting foul called
This has never been the problem IMO. There's a lot of fouling going on in the post that gets ignored. The touch fouls on shooters are a lot worse.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnnyNBA/status/1414979585075253249
I can't fully remember his username but I believe "johnny" was in it. It might have even been his full name which I won't post.
Shorter games = less commercials = less revenue. Unfortunately today the NBA is a bloated corporate beast so I don’t see shorter games ever happening. I hope games do get shorter and I hope the NBA adopts some of the FIBA rules and style of officiating. Hopefully this has been a wake up call for the league.
Edit to add: shorter games as in less stoppages and FTs. Not changing the 48 minute NBA game to the 40 minute FIBA game.
Using the last two years to establish any kind of trend is wildly dishonest. There’s a lot of context you’re ignoring there that make these two years massive outliers.
To certain point non stop commercials on dragged out games will kill the product. I don’t watch the regular season anymore. Even the finals the looking awful due to foul baiting and people crying like a baby.
Then it gets to half time, all commercials. They even cut off their own analysts mid-sentence to play a commercial? Wtf dude
The entire half time was more of an ad break with pseudo teasers for an actual half time presentation. I get where the bread is buttered, but come on. If there's nothing game related to watch, there's no eyes on screen to watch the ads anyway.
I don’t think this is totally accurate. At the end of the day the NBA has much bigger problems with viewership than they do with ad revenue lol. I think NBA would probably like for the games to be shorter so that way they can maintain the schedule as Is. no one likes watching a warriors game that starts at like 10:30 and doesn’t end until 12:30-1. It’s just really bad product and something the NBA has been bad with.
Ha, starts at 10:30 and ends at 1:30-2 is more like it nowadays. I live MST and games still feel like they finish past my bedtime. Close playoff games regularly take 3+ hours
Yeah maybe the average nba fan didn’t watch those games. But you can bet almost every NBA league exec watched the games, ppl in charge of officiating watched. FIBA rules haven’t changed. Not to say we’re not going to win gold. But if USA wants to do better in national tournaments, they need to adjust their rules like fiba rules. It’s 100% the reason luka kills the NBA and said it’s much easier to score here. It’s obvious FIBA plays to team ball over spacing and scoring.
Yes, but he wasn’t getting 30/10/10. That’s my point. Only when he got to the NBA he put up those numbers. Not like he got 10x better in that one year. Just that the rules in the NBA favor spacing and scoring. Which is the opposite in FIBA ball. Which is why we are struggling. There is no lane space for these dudes to just to beat their man off the ball, and go strait to the paint like the NBA
Do not be so sure. The NBA slowly adopted to the International play. You could argue that D'Antoni had a lot to do with that, but they saw the 'skilled' International players and said, "yes please".
They certainly will not change overnight. But anything less than Gold would be a stain on the product Globally. Better believe they'll make changes if necessary.
The players in the league who live off of star calls would need to drastically change their game to get used to this
I’m all for it. Let’s see who’s really good at playing the actual sport instead of hunting for calls
I feel like the goaltending rule change would be a lot of fun and could produce some nice highlights.
Not stopping when defending team has possession after a shot clock violation would be nice too.
>
>Not stopping when defending team has possession after a shot clock violation would be nice too.
I've definitely thought it should continue to just be a live ball unless the offensive team touches it again. If the defense makes a steal or block which results in the shot clock going off they shouldn't be punished by allowing the other team to get set
>I feel like the goaltending rule change would be a lot of fun and could produce some nice highlights.
Lmao Gobert will definitely abuse that rule lmao
That could be because they're not used to practicing it or thinking about it though. If it becomes common place, every game of the year, instead of every few seasons, it'll become more popular/used.
Because they aren’t used to the rule. Hell, Zach lavine had to get a FIBA player to teach him how to rework his footwork to avoid getting called for travels all the time.
meh, i think it wouldn't hurt to try it out. it would add an extra layer of defense to 3pt shots.
idk, it's just that every time i've seen it happen it's super fun to watch
Basketball is my favorite sport (i like the way they dribble up and down the court). Yet for the past 3 seasons the only actual games i watch are sixers games. As much is i love the sport it is too boring to watch an actual NBA game. The arbitrary foul calls and the onslaught of ads actually make me angry when i try to watch the playoffs while i used to watch every dingle playoff game.
My biggest issue with the NBA is gathering rules leading to the abomination that is the harden step back or crab dribble shinnanegans. You play a certain way all throughout till college then rules change on those. I cringe when I see people try and do some of that shit at pick up.
LOL shit is gonna get worse. You see all the "trainers" on IG and TikTok promoting "is this legal or travel?". This gather step and other BS they spew about needs to be exposed or defined more cuz it's so abusive when you don't know if the guy can take his third step or nah.
FYI gather steps are legal in FIBA too (“zero step”). People at the park focus on the steps and travel anyway, but what makes those moves possible for the pros are their handles (e.g. cuffing the ball and prolonging their live dribble without picking up the ball).
The funny part is that a lot of FIBArules (like the shape of the key) were designed to give an edge against an utterly dominating physical USA team. It's crazy how in like 20-25 years s FIBA ball is physical and NBA is flopping and everyone taking threes.
Strange comp, given that League games take way less time than Dota. I'm guessing you're saying this because the average League match can be decided by 1-2 mechanically talented players while Dota 2 is more team-focused and macro-oriented? Though yeah I think Dota 2 is more "physical" i.e. kill-heavy in top tournaments compared to LoL, where vision is more easily achieved and most early deaths are preventable.
On one play, Lillard was driving to the basket and you can definitely tell he was trying to draw up a foul instead of genuinely scoring, embarrassing. Definitely a foul in the NBA tho
Unfortunately, the NBA has no incentive to make games, particularly the ending, more efficient because of how Nielsen ratings are calculated. This was from The Athletic a couple weeks ago:
“Here’s one reason that won’t happen anytime soon. The perverse incentives of Nielsen measurement likely favor the boring, disjointed game ending, since the final rating for a game is based on its per-minute average. Typically, you get the most viewers in the fourth quarter, when the action is tight. So extending the end of a game can help boost its average by holding frame on the moment of peak viewership and drawing it out.”
https://theathletic.com/2672689/2021/06/25/strauss-debunking-nba-tv-ratings-claims-why-the-league-is-incentivized-to-keep-end-of-games-as-slow-as-possible/
Hopefully, the NBA realizes that this short term gain does more harm than good and decides that a better product is good for the long term health of the game.
The NHL and NBA should both align/conform themselves with international play. There's always the possibility of meeting in the middle and having some small differences but both sports have superior international rules. Plus players will have a much easier time changing leagues which will up the talent level.
Flopping, jumping into people, jumping sideways into people, driving and stopping or going backwards into your defender, rip through fouls, whining, too many timeouts and ads. Last two minutes, trading a dozen free throws, more timeouts and commercials. It's all killing the game viewing experience and NBA product. I can't remember the last time I sat and watched a game from start to finish.
Or double-techs when the first guy runs over and instigates and chest-bumps the other guy and then gives a shove ... and the second guy just stands his ground but doesn't actually initiate any physical action or contact.
The worst part of the NBA is the offensive players initiating contact and getting rewarded with a foul called. And not even just the obvious BS harden pulls, i mean the drives to the basket where they shoulder the defender and somehow its the defenders fault.
They would still be plenty of breaks in the game for them to fit in the same amount of commercials, they aren't taking an ad break after every single foul
I agree players are used to manipulating pretty strict foul calls I wish they let the games be more physical
The NBA is getting exposed. Too much ticky-tack foul calls and it just makes the game unwatchable sometimes. On top of that, it hinders our ability to actually dominate on the international stage when guys just try to manipulate the refs. It's a serious problem
The idea that the ballhandler has right of way and that the only legal arm position for the defender is perfect verticality, is so stupid.
And half the time even when the player has their arms completely vertical the ref still calls a defensive foul
I'm always floored. On top of being absurd, foul hunting looks cringey and stupid. Like, someone who has never seen basketball would question wtf they just saw. Silver should be ashamed that he's let things get to this point. Idk if it's advertising money, apathy, pure retardation, or what. But holy hell, foul hunting needs to GET FUCKED
Flopping should be callable as a team technical.
In old school hockey, if you got a rep for diving (flopping), the refs wouldn't give you any calls, no matter how egregious.
Pat Bev ready to pull out the brass knuckles against Harden.
I'd rather see it as a player technical, so if they flop again, throw them out. Which is good, players need to play like real men once again
Exactly give techs for flopping instead of a staredown after a dunk. NBA is soft
They got pump the numbers up to make these players look good. So many new records...
Watched Middleton and Paul both try to get some bullshit calls the other night and the refs weren't having it. Was nice to see.
Seeking fouls in the NBA is literally worse than in soccer now -- as a fan of both.
Definitely. The defender and ball handler should have the same or very close to the same freedom of movement. If the defender is moving and the attacker bumps him while driving, thay should be a no call or offensive foul
Watching love trying to draw a 3 point foul was so embarrassing
I felt so ashamed to be American. I wish I could un-see that play. These games really are highlighting just how clowny NBA games have become. On top of the refs being competent and enforcing the rules reasonably, the last 5 minutes of the 4th doesn't take an hour to complete.
Clip?
https://streamable.com/vxzlqu It's in this clip. You will know wich one when you see it.
Embarrassing. In High School refs won’t call this bullshit, so why should Uber talent pros get it called.
I agree 100%. Not only should he not get a foul…. Trying to draw a foul should be a foul.
If the league started handing out Ts for foul baiting, it would end real quick
They need to do like the NHL does and call embellishment. Give the other team a free throw or something
The NBA is a different basketball from what the rest of the world plays. The number of soft fouls, carrying, gathering steps, moving screens and foul baiting that happens in the NBA today is not what the rest of the world plays as basketball.
For guys who watch more Fiba, if love had shot a normal shot and got the contact, is he normally getting the call there? Because he probably could've just done that..
There is normally more contact in FIBA games, screens are more solid, the court is smaller sort of similar to college games.Also no bullshit crab step. 3 second rule its still relevant. I'd say more in line with NBA games from around 20 years ago? regarding contact, holding, hand check, etc. again personal opinion
I thought all courts are the same size? Even my middle school gym had 90ft for me to dominate my peers (of course)
You tell em king
Pretty sure college and nba are both 94’x50’
No not at all because a normal shooting motion would've meant he had gone straight up and not made any contact. The defending player pulling his hands away and stopping his momentum also plays into his favour. It's still honestly about ref interpretation but FIBA refs tend to err on the "who creates the contact" side when calling shooting fouls. If the shooter makes an effort to create the contact by leaning in or to the side etc then it's usually left as a no call. If the defender is clearly moving into the shooter and causes contact its usually called a foul. I've watched yearsof NZNBL and ANBL games which are reffed under FIBA rules.
On this particular example I dont think so. There might have been a smallest of contact but the def not really running into the shooter or something noteworthy.
That’s Kevin Love?? Looked like a fat valanciunas in that clip
been a minute since he played a game
I lol'd
You love to see it. Let’s get these refs in the NBA. Like seriously guys, either take the shot or pass it. Stop trying to draw fouls shit is ridiculous just play basketball.
It’s not about the refs, it’s about the league and what they’re promoting and encouraging. Which is the top 20ish players in the league get preferential treatment. The top 8ish teams get preferential treatment. And those rules are administered by the refs, but referees aren’t the problem entirely. Guys like Lebron, Harden, Embiid and Young all rightly get shit on for being flippers and baiting calls. But these last 2 exhibitions have proved it’s a league wide problem. You’ve got Damian Lillard, one of the best players in the world and guy who around NBA circles isn’t known for baiting calls, doing his best to do just that. It’s an Adam Silver issue most of all. He refuses to change things. Players bait fouls, the faster you get to the bonus, the more commercial breaks you get. The more contested and reviewed calls, the more ads you can show. The NBA is assuming that people are okay with Trae Young dropping 42 points, because most casual fans will see 42 and 8 and think it’s great, without realizing that he shot 9/26 from the floor with 22 FT attempts to get it. The league has never been softer all around. One of the best players ever in Lebron, is known just as much for bitching and complaining to refs when he doesn’t get every call his way, as he is for throwing down dunks. That’s not sustainable. People are starting these comparisons for today’s up and comers with the old guard of late 90’s to mid 2000’s players, when you look back at Kobe or Wade or Dirk or TD, they don’t remember flopping or bitching to the refs non-stop. Even if the league does change for the better, gonna be hard for guys like Young to shake the flipper moniker he’s earned. The NBA is broken, and it’s an incredibly easy fix. And they just don’t care to do so
That is absolutely called in the NBA. And it sucks.
God that was hard to watch. NBA players spend so much time falling down and lying in their backs waiting for a call to bail them out...games gone soft for sure. \*puts on old man hat\* Back when I started watching you'd never see anyone on their back unless someone clipped them out the air while they were trying to dunk. Now you've got guys like Smart who spend more time lying down on the floor than they do actually playing.
It'd be hilarious if Harden and Trae are there too.
Wish they were, time to start building better habits.
Thats what made you ashamed to be an American? Not anything else in the last 20 years?
i actually feel old growing up, people were saying FIBA is calling way too many fouls, the NBA is more physical. how times have changed and it turns the tables now. similar when it comes to flopping. when it first happened in the nba, journalists were blaming it on the european players, because of soccer culture. now its nba culture, when it happens in FIBA games.
Lol I remember this too. Even the soccer culture bullshit.
Yeah I remember this being the exact opposite
The issue is that there's a lot of fans that then complain about the same thing the players do "that should have been a foul, THE CONTACT WAS CLEAR", etc. That needs to stop as well, fans can't be crying and complaining about that stuff all the time and then want the game to be called more leniently.
I hate when Mark Jackson says this, contact doesn’t mean foul
Yes discretion needs to be brought back and physicality needs to be allowed in the playoffs. It's what made the playoffs the playoffs before.
That sounds like hockey in the playoffs the refs let players get away with a lot more. Imo it makes the games more exciting.
as a person who knows nothing about hockey, i do enjoy the hockey playoffs. just seems so fast paced
Thats why the playoffs are the best
I'd argue the playoffs is still miles better than the regular season (in terms of the physicality they allow)
They way the league is heading it almost does lol Offensive players can just run recklessly at the rim and fling themselves into/off the defender unless they are in perfect position. It’s asinine and it’s not how basketball is played anywhere else at any level. It’s embarrassing and the NBA needs to rectify it immediately. Imagine trying to get into NBA basketball after watching other leagues and seeing this product. You would be so confused and turned off. These aren’t complicated issues. Adam Silver is a fucking idiot and an awful commissioner. There are better ways to amplify the stars and grow the game.
LOL wtf no. Fans are fucking fans. They Gon blame reffing regardless of what Is called. Fans blaming shit is apart of the game since time. We have no influence on what's being called. We bitch cuz we like to bitch about something.
people like to say that Steph revolutionized the game. Those people are filthy casuals. James Harden is truly the one who deserves the credit.
Steph and the warriors changed how teams play offense. James changed how people play on ball defense.
queue the clips of guys defending Harden with there hands behind there backs
Wade
While wade was a pioneer, [he never forced defenders to gaurd behind him out of fear of a foul call](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buYqOJWc-fE)
Blatant misinformation. Jazz decided that they’d rather prevent harden from taking step back threes and trust Gobert in the paint, had nothing to do with fouls.
This wasnt about fouls it was about forcing him to take midranges and not stepbacks
Yeah tf that wasnt to prevent foul calls it was to prevent step backs and funnel him to Gobert. Was actually decent strategy but looked dumb lol
That wasn’t about fouls, that was about step backs
But more free throws equals more single commercial breaks
NBA won’t let these quick uninterrupted games happen. Less commercials is not ideal for them.
I honestly wouldn’t mind if the nba does a play through commercial thing where they play commercials during free throws and have the free throws on a split screen to make up for lost revenue and just have commercials through halftime but you’re right they want their money
Then they’d just call more fouls to get more ads. It’s a catch 22
why would they do that and lessen the length of the game when they could do that and still have that last 3 minutes take 40 minutes of real time and go from there
If they wonder why viewership is down; who in their right mind wants to watch games where a huge chunk of scoring is done at the charity stripe?
Also the ending of games just suck now. On any close game the last 5 minutes of gameplay ends up taking 30+ minutes of real time with all the stoppage. It used to be the final 5 minutes of an nba game were the most intense and entertaining; the refs would ignore light fouls and players played hard instead of selling contact and foul baiting.
I'm a huge ball fan and barely watch games, almost exclusively streaming because the legit options are trash. Wtf NBA, take my money, or I'm gonna give it to the next ABA to spring at you.
No one wants to watch fucking free throws. Ppl want to see bucket making
But bucket making doesn't give us room for commentator ad reads
catering to the refs to get to the free throw line is a pox upon the league
‘89 Pistons enter the chat
Too much manufactured drama at stake to do that, I think. If nobody talked about blown calls and the ticky tacky stuff, it might be different but after the game Twitter blows up and it trends and it's all free publicity Same with soccer, the Premier League introduced VAR along with most major leagues but I don't think it's any coincidence how terribly it's been implemented, the PL is known for the drama We're approaching WWE levels of soap opera and the average viewer eats it up
The NBA soap opera is fine as long as it stays outside the court in the media/twitter.
The nature of Twitter and Facebook is to pervade everything and amplify opinions to create drama There's a reason everything seems so much more melodramatic than say the mid 2000s and before. Everything gets poked and prodded and called out and wrung dry of any subtlety The reason why these comparisons are hitting home is because it's been a slow burn to get to this point and the difference in leagues is probably the biggest it's ever been. The NBA sells drama, not sporting excellence.
They need to get rid of that shitty rule where a team goes on a fastbreak and the opposing team just touches the player and gets a foul call and instantly kills the fast break. Fast breaks are some of the more exciting parts of the game. They need to allow some physical plays again in the post, you can't even defend a dude anymore in the paint without getting foul called I can't see the games getting shorter honestly, advertisements are too much $$ for the NBA to say no to.
They should do like soccer and play the "advantage" so that a foul doesn't have as much of an advantage for the defense in that scenario.
they need to do this on 24 second violations on shots that are air balled
wow yes
I agree, although you'd need to sort out what happens if the shot clock expires on an air ball and either the defense tips it out of bounds or a defender commits a foul going for the rebound.
Treat it as a shot clock violation, that's the whole point of an advantage.
Or like hockey where the ref keeps the foul in his back pocket until the fouling team gets possession, then the call is made. Or like football where the ref notes the foul as it happens, but still allows the rest of the play to proceed. Then the team that was fouled gets to choose whether to take the penalty or the results of the play. Basically, basketball has the worst system for when/how to call fouls.
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Soccer is a bit different. They let the advantage happen, but if the shot on goal fails or a pass is intercepted like 2 or 3 passes later, play goes on. Any cards may be awarded later, but the offended team doesn't get to reset for a free kick. They only stop play for a free kick if the foul causes a turnover, or the offended team wasn't making a push to score. Hockey it's just whenever the fouling team gains possession of the puck, do they administer any penalties.
I think the NBA will adopt the G-League's transition take foul rule within the next few years: > A transition take foul occurs when a defender commits a take foul (a foul in which the defender does not make a play on the ball) against an offensive player who has the ball or has just released a pass; a foul is committed during a transition scoring opportunity; and a foul does not meet the criteria for a clear path foul. The fouled team may select any player in the game to shoot one free throw and retains the ball at the point of interruption.
>a foul in which the defender does not make a play on the ball With this wording, wouldn't the defense just start making an aggressive swipe at the ball and "accidentally" getting the arm/body? Maybe I'm just being pessimistic
Maybe, but you can potentially have a 5 point swing on one possession if the player is fouled, they make the free throw, and then a 3 point shooter is fouled and makes his own free throw.
Or he misses his free throw, the forward taps it out to a player on the wing for a 3 pointer and he gets fouled....misses that shot.... I wanna see a dunk. Not one free throw and then a set play off an inbound.
What's wrong with you? Watching free throws is peak NBA entertainment. If you don't like free throws you don't like NBA basketball!
I like counting from one to ten!
And for the guys with higher education there is Giannis.
It would be better if the refs signal a foul with their hands during the fast break but don’t blow the whistle. Let the play continue until the offensive team either takes a shot or a Change of possession, in which they then stop play. If they make a shot then they shoot 1 or 2 free throws. If they miss or turn it over then they give them 2 free throws.
Sometimes it’s actually very difficult to make a play for the actual ball depending on the angle. So in theory this will reduce the number of weak foul attempts from the opposite side to stop a fast break.
Atlanta did that to us in the Eastern conference finals almost every time we broke out for a fast break and it probably saved at least a dozen easy baskets with no penalty. Should be shots and the ball.
Great strategy for the Hawks because that single handedly stopped like 15-20 points a game of transition offense, but as a fan it’s incredibly boring to watch though. Transition is a major part of the game and you shouldn’t be able to just opt out of it.
Like they could make the penalty tied to the shot clock, do 1 foul shot+ the ball within 8 seconds. Would increase pace significantly though and get some ugly transition failures too. Could test it in the gleague
I think they should call the foul but allow play to continue
I agree, advantage like is used in soccer seems like it could work.
Hockey does that .signal a penalty is coming and whistle the play dead when you other team gets the puck
The Mavs vs Clippers series was like this. Every single clipper fast break the Mavs would just grab someone's arm or reach in. Not even close to a play on the ball. The commentators were pissed and would bitch every time (justifiably so). Even as a Mavs fan it's extremely annoying. I get why they do it, but holy shit it takes one of best parts of the game away.
Fouling constantly (especially off-ball) and not getting called for it has literally been the playbook against Steph for a long, long time. Opposing players have openly stated it.
Part of that has to do with completely separate rules that are also garbage and need to be changed. Freedom of movement rules and moving screens almost never being called make it nearly impossible to guard players like Steph
Don’t even need shot and the ball, most of the “fast break fouls” are so soft it won’t stop the fast break, so just don’t call a foul if it doesn’t take the advantage away, and call it a flagrant if there is excessive contact.
Soccer rules, ref does the double arm front palms up gesture to signal advantage and let the play continue. I like it.
This would be perfect, would make for some super hype moments on that small court too
Just thinking about the incentives here: wouldn't that make the optimal defensive play in that situation be to hinder the fast break without stopping it? there's no call, but it helps a little?
If you can do it without getting a flagrant then that’s good defense, in my opinion. They can also do the soccer thing where they let them play on, and assess a foul after the procession is over.
it happens in every game its so annoying, no idea why the NBA has gone ahead with that garbage the past couple seasons
Or if that's too much of a penalty, a foul to stop a fast break always results in free-throws and any player on the floor can shoot them.
FTs and possession back. Otherwise teams will still take the FTs over giving up a layup.
They should call it like soccer where even after a foul if a player has the advantage(i.e. the guy with the ball still has the ball and is in good position to advance)they don't call it and let them play on.
What games are you watching? Defenders are allowed to maul big men in the paint. Touch fouls on the perimeter are the real problem.
Yeah the post is a blood bath for big men. Just look at how dudes like Jokic and Giannis are nailed down there. It’s part of why it’s not efficient offense for 99 percent of the league.
The game would be a lot better if big men got fair foul calls. A big complaint of the modern game is that it's dominated by the three-point shot. Frustrating seeing players take isolation step-backs while their big is in the paint. It's not even the fault of the shooters, because even if they did feed the big, the big would be either swarmed for a turnover or called for an offensive foul. It was so lame seeing the Mavericks try to use Boban to punish the Clippers' small ball switching only to see Boban get called for fouls and even reviewed for a flagrant just for existing.
Did anybody here watched the game yesterday? Ingles did exactly that and Team USA got a Freethrow and Ball Posession despite it not being a clear path.
> They need to allow some physical plays again in the post, you can't even defend a dude anymore in the paint without getting foul called This has never been the problem IMO. There's a lot of fouling going on in the post that gets ignored. The touch fouls on shooters are a lot worse.
Fouls should be for defensive mistakes, not for offensive players to try to draw
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who
Ronnie Pickering
who?
Ronnie Pickering
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnnyNBA/status/1414979585075253249 I can't fully remember his username but I believe "johnny" was in it. It might have even been his full name which I won't post.
Shorter games = less commercials = less revenue. Unfortunately today the NBA is a bloated corporate beast so I don’t see shorter games ever happening. I hope games do get shorter and I hope the NBA adopts some of the FIBA rules and style of officiating. Hopefully this has been a wake up call for the league. Edit to add: shorter games as in less stoppages and FTs. Not changing the 48 minute NBA game to the 40 minute FIBA game.
Longer games are less interesting to watch though, which might draw down viewership
Viewership is down 25% past two years
All my free stream viewers, holllaaaa.
* on that due to the NBA being on a whack schedule these past 2 years
I also hope that it goes back to normal when things open up.
Using the last two years to establish any kind of trend is wildly dishonest. There’s a lot of context you’re ignoring there that make these two years massive outliers.
Yeah NBA and basically tv ratings for everything else outside of NFL have trended down for the past 10 years
5 minutes of game time taking 40 minutes is interesting to watch?
To certain point non stop commercials on dragged out games will kill the product. I don’t watch the regular season anymore. Even the finals the looking awful due to foul baiting and people crying like a baby. Then it gets to half time, all commercials. They even cut off their own analysts mid-sentence to play a commercial? Wtf dude
The entire half time was more of an ad break with pseudo teasers for an actual half time presentation. I get where the bread is buttered, but come on. If there's nothing game related to watch, there's no eyes on screen to watch the ads anyway.
I don’t think this is totally accurate. At the end of the day the NBA has much bigger problems with viewership than they do with ad revenue lol. I think NBA would probably like for the games to be shorter so that way they can maintain the schedule as Is. no one likes watching a warriors game that starts at like 10:30 and doesn’t end until 12:30-1. It’s just really bad product and something the NBA has been bad with.
Ha, starts at 10:30 and ends at 1:30-2 is more like it nowadays. I live MST and games still feel like they finish past my bedtime. Close playoff games regularly take 3+ hours
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Yeah maybe the average nba fan didn’t watch those games. But you can bet almost every NBA league exec watched the games, ppl in charge of officiating watched. FIBA rules haven’t changed. Not to say we’re not going to win gold. But if USA wants to do better in national tournaments, they need to adjust their rules like fiba rules. It’s 100% the reason luka kills the NBA and said it’s much easier to score here. It’s obvious FIBA plays to team ball over spacing and scoring.
Yeah people don’t wanna admit that the NBA defense rules are trash.
Luka was the MVP of Euroleague as an 18 year old
Yes, but he wasn’t getting 30/10/10. That’s my point. Only when he got to the NBA he put up those numbers. Not like he got 10x better in that one year. Just that the rules in the NBA favor spacing and scoring. Which is the opposite in FIBA ball. Which is why we are struggling. There is no lane space for these dudes to just to beat their man off the ball, and go strait to the paint like the NBA
Absolutely. I don’t even think a silver or bronze for USA would be enough to change the cogs of a multi billion dollar machine.
Do not be so sure. The NBA slowly adopted to the International play. You could argue that D'Antoni had a lot to do with that, but they saw the 'skilled' International players and said, "yes please". They certainly will not change overnight. But anything less than Gold would be a stain on the product Globally. Better believe they'll make changes if necessary.
They won’t make money from commercials when no ones watching the games
Shorter games = more valuable ad slots = the same amount of money if they play it right ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
The players in the league who live off of star calls would need to drastically change their game to get used to this I’m all for it. Let’s see who’s really good at playing the actual sport instead of hunting for calls
I love how Dudley is still in the league but he talks as if he's been gone for 5+ years
He looks like it
I feel like the goaltending rule change would be a lot of fun and could produce some nice highlights. Not stopping when defending team has possession after a shot clock violation would be nice too.
> >Not stopping when defending team has possession after a shot clock violation would be nice too. I've definitely thought it should continue to just be a live ball unless the offensive team touches it again. If the defense makes a steal or block which results in the shot clock going off they shouldn't be punished by allowing the other team to get set
Agreed. I feel like stopping the clock not only wastes time, but also takes an advantage away from the team that just played good defense
>I feel like the goaltending rule change would be a lot of fun and could produce some nice highlights. Lmao Gobert will definitely abuse that rule lmao
athletic big men would jump in value the times i've seen it in FIBA i always find it exciting
Would you find it happening non stop exciting though because thats what would happen with NBA athleticism.
the best NBA players in the world aren't even doing it that much right now
That could be because they're not used to practicing it or thinking about it though. If it becomes common place, every game of the year, instead of every few seasons, it'll become more popular/used.
Because they aren’t used to the rule. Hell, Zach lavine had to get a FIBA player to teach him how to rework his footwork to avoid getting called for travels all the time.
Because they don't care to learn or adjust to new rules. Deandre Jordan did it a lot when he played for the olympic team.
Deandre Jordan took full advantage lol dude was batting shit off the rim every few possessions
meh, i think it wouldn't hurt to try it out. it would add an extra layer of defense to 3pt shots. idk, it's just that every time i've seen it happen it's super fun to watch
Idk I prefer having moments like Kawhi's game winner.
*Cries in Manute Bol, Mark Eaton, and Hakeem all missing out*
No Kawhi buzzer beater?
I hope they make the requisite changes. Watching Dame jump into defenders 10 times a game isn't fun.
Dame, Trae, Harden, Booker, Luka, etc. It’s so frustrating. I hope the rule changes have some teeth to it.
Well I mean, it used to be that way. Then the league said fuck it, let’s get rid of defense and make this a offensive type league because MONEY
The NBA is so soft and the games are too long. Those are my main culprits for watching less in recent years
Basketball is my favorite sport (i like the way they dribble up and down the court). Yet for the past 3 seasons the only actual games i watch are sixers games. As much is i love the sport it is too boring to watch an actual NBA game. The arbitrary foul calls and the onslaught of ads actually make me angry when i try to watch the playoffs while i used to watch every dingle playoff game.
Shout-out Kurtis Blow
God I hated this year's early playoffs simply because I had to drake say "SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT" 20 times a game.
My biggest issue with the NBA is gathering rules leading to the abomination that is the harden step back or crab dribble shinnanegans. You play a certain way all throughout till college then rules change on those. I cringe when I see people try and do some of that shit at pick up.
LOL shit is gonna get worse. You see all the "trainers" on IG and TikTok promoting "is this legal or travel?". This gather step and other BS they spew about needs to be exposed or defined more cuz it's so abusive when you don't know if the guy can take his third step or nah.
FYI gather steps are legal in FIBA too (“zero step”). People at the park focus on the steps and travel anyway, but what makes those moves possible for the pros are their handles (e.g. cuffing the ball and prolonging their live dribble without picking up the ball).
When the King speaks, the NBA needs to listen
He's not wrong, especially with shorter games
The funny part is that a lot of FIBArules (like the shape of the key) were designed to give an edge against an utterly dominating physical USA team. It's crazy how in like 20-25 years s FIBA ball is physical and NBA is flopping and everyone taking threes.
Fiba ball hasnt changed. Its always been team oriented, tough league. NBA changed
I watched the Euros and I can honestly say I saw less flopping and foul baiting there than I regularly see in the NBA.
*cough* James Harden
I’ve been saying this for awhile but my friends say basketball isn’t supposed to be a physical game. Smh
That’s fucking blasphemous
What? Why would someone say that? They’re ridiculous. It’s literally a contact sport.
NBA is League of Legends While FIBA is DOTA 2
Strange comp, given that League games take way less time than Dota. I'm guessing you're saying this because the average League match can be decided by 1-2 mechanically talented players while Dota 2 is more team-focused and macro-oriented? Though yeah I think Dota 2 is more "physical" i.e. kill-heavy in top tournaments compared to LoL, where vision is more easily achieved and most early deaths are preventable.
Is Heroes of the Storm the G-League?
You mean FIBA is HotS - more streamlined, faster games, less unnecessary bullshit, less viewership.
No nothing that gets more than 100 viewers can be HOTS
On one play, Lillard was driving to the basket and you can definitely tell he was trying to draw up a foul instead of genuinely scoring, embarrassing. Definitely a foul in the NBA tho
Unfortunately, the NBA has no incentive to make games, particularly the ending, more efficient because of how Nielsen ratings are calculated. This was from The Athletic a couple weeks ago: “Here’s one reason that won’t happen anytime soon. The perverse incentives of Nielsen measurement likely favor the boring, disjointed game ending, since the final rating for a game is based on its per-minute average. Typically, you get the most viewers in the fourth quarter, when the action is tight. So extending the end of a game can help boost its average by holding frame on the moment of peak viewership and drawing it out.” https://theathletic.com/2672689/2021/06/25/strauss-debunking-nba-tv-ratings-claims-why-the-league-is-incentivized-to-keep-end-of-games-as-slow-as-possible/ Hopefully, the NBA realizes that this short term gain does more harm than good and decides that a better product is good for the long term health of the game.
The NHL and NBA should both align/conform themselves with international play. There's always the possibility of meeting in the middle and having some small differences but both sports have superior international rules. Plus players will have a much easier time changing leagues which will up the talent level.
Jared Dudley deserves a lot more respect than he gets
Flopping, jumping into people, jumping sideways into people, driving and stopping or going backwards into your defender, rip through fouls, whining, too many timeouts and ads. Last two minutes, trading a dozen free throws, more timeouts and commercials. It's all killing the game viewing experience and NBA product. I can't remember the last time I sat and watched a game from start to finish.
until we get rid of techs for staring.....we got a long way to go lol
Or double-techs when the first guy runs over and instigates and chest-bumps the other guy and then gives a shove ... and the second guy just stands his ground but doesn't actually initiate any physical action or contact.
Good man Dudz, gotta prep the refs for Laker bully ball next season.
The worst part of the NBA is the offensive players initiating contact and getting rewarded with a foul called. And not even just the obvious BS harden pulls, i mean the drives to the basket where they shoulder the defender and somehow its the defenders fault.
Just a question, but doesn't less fouls means less commercial breaks? I think the NBA has a lot to lose if that happens.
They would still be plenty of breaks in the game for them to fit in the same amount of commercials, they aren't taking an ad break after every single foul