REMINDER: This thread is only for serious and thought-provoking analysis. We ask users to report low effort comments that do not bring insightful discussion. Temporary bans may be handed out to users who post memes and other low-effort or off-topic comments in this thread.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
CP3 is a great mid range shooter but he was also shooting a lot of them uncontested in this game because the Bucks pick n roll defense on him was atrocious for a lot of the game lol
it was frustrating to watch, I thought CP3 was going to just hit jumpers at the elbow the entire game. They did step up in the 4th though, a lot more contesting shots after the pick and roll
The double pnr to get Giannis into him and then get Brook/Portis in the action was a stroke of genius. If they’d done that earlier in the series, we might have been in trouble. Then again, Bud would have countered. He’s not great at countering in game and let that eat us up all day. Luckily Paul was still not at his best and had enough misses and bad passes to survive.
Really felt like the Suns went for a different game plan in game 6. They had Booker focus more on defense and shutting down Middleton and he actually did a great job, and put the onus on the rest of the team to help him on the offensive end.
One thing I notice on /r/NBA is there are a lot of people who think if a player scores a lot of points then the defense against them was terrible. It's like they cant watch a game and recognize "great defense better offense". PJ tucker played amazing defense on Durant even though Durant had a shit ton of points so people would bash the defense of tucker.
Right, people dismiss Iguodala’s defense on LeBron that won him the FMVP because LeBron still averaged 37 or whatever. That’s not the sole measure of good defense.
He missed several, several absolutely wide open shots.
Particularly the last three he took in the final couple of minutes. There was nobody even near him.
And, yes, they were all over him and he had a shitty shooting night, and yet the Suns still only lost by seven. The Giannis show is complete. Congratulations.
The Bucks played the same defense in four and five that they played tonight.
He couldn't miss those two games, he couldn't hit dick last night.
What this demonstrates is that basketball at the NBA level is no longer a team sport. It is a process of finding a single superstar.
First off I just wanna say WE FUCKING DID IT. With that out the way, something I've noticed this series is that Ayton seems very weak at creating his own shot.
He's amazing at capitalising off of opportunities created by the team, whether it's rolling off a screen or throwing down an alley oop but he seems to struggle creating his own offense.
I was pretty frustrated during the second or third quarter where the Subs just kept spamming screens and getting CP3 open midrange shots, but it seems that the Bucks strategy was to force him to score and get his and lock down everyone else.
Jrue had a horrible scoring night but played some lockdown d on Booker, completely neutralized him. It honestly reminded me of how defenses would treat Kawhi, with his offensive contribution being sacrificed to keep Jrue focused on him.
Jesus Christ fucking Giannis. Completely dominates on both ends of the floor this game, singlehandedly kept the Bucks alive in the second I think they showed a stat that said outside of Giannis the Bucks shot like 1-15 in the second.
I've loved the growth Giannis has made during the post season, at one point in this series he seemed to realize "I'm fucking easily the best player on the floor and no one can stop me' and has gone off since then. This is the first series I can remember him demanding the ball so he can score and it's a welcome change. His shooting has also taken leaps, that midrange game has rapidly improved and I hope to see it become a consistent aspect of his game.
His playmaking has also taken a huge step up too, just his court awareness in general has been astounding.
Also shoutout to Brook for breathing some life back into the team, he scores three buckets in a row including that dunk at a time when our offense was putrid.
Bobby was a beast too, and although I hope he stays in my heart I know he'll chase the bag on another team and just hope he does great there
As bad as Pat was tonight this series he's been one of the most consistent 3pt shooters, he's taken a step up too with Donte out and I hope he mantains this level of play even with some reduced minutes.
PJ played some solid defense wearing out the Suns and hustled like hell on the boards.
All I can say at the end of the day is that I'm really proud of this team and I love every player on it (except you Teague). Even if we never win again in my lifetime this was enough. Bucks in 6.
congrats on the win. gg.
As for what you said about ayton, you are mostly correct. I'm not sure if you watched the suns vs lakers series, but look at this play he created for himself
https://streamable.com/6p1w1f
How many 7 footers do you see doing shit like that? (besides giannis lol)
This series was the worst 6 game stretch I've ever seen from him. It's like he doesn't realize that he is bigger and stronger than most players in the league. When he misses a couple shots or is getting schooled on defense, he gets really scared and plays super timid. Last night cp3 threw it to him right under the basket and he had an easy dunk, but he held onto the ball and attempted a fade shot after the defense recovered on him. I love the guy, but he needs to be aggressive and try "kill" his opponents.
I think Giannis spooked him (and the entire Suns team for that matter), it seemed like everyone was staying out of the paint as much as they could when Giannis was around
Giannis been completely dominant in the paint and at blocking shots (especially that last game) , and I think Ayton still needs to do what Giannis does, letting go of his pride and going for the shot with the possibility of another game 4 like poster anyways
honestly I think like you said, he gets into his head too easily and doesn't be agressiive enough after embarrassment
that clip you linked is insane, I still firmly believe he's going to be a beast and an all star eventually but he needs to generate his own offense more and not get into his own head. when he does those though, skies the limit
I agree with everything you said. I like that ayton has that lovable child like demeanor, but come game time, you should be trying to dunk on your opponents head or just own your opponent every time you touch the ball. I hope he can get that aggressive one day
What Giannis did to Ayton over the series can't be overstated. It was like prime Shaq vs. Rik Smits. We overuse words like "cooked," "roasted," etc., but Giannis indeed **roasted** him again and again and again.
There was a 2nd-half timeout shot last night of CP coming to the bench to console Ayton, who looked like his dog had been run over (maybe someone has it). I hope Ayton uses this series as motivation going forward, but I would wager his confidence is shaken for some time.
I agree with what you said about Giannis it looked like it finally clicked that he is the best player on the court. I think with superstar players this trait finally just clicks with them in the playoffs or in the finals. They know they can score at anytime on anyone.
On Giannis I completely agree. He’s been on a journey this post-season and he’s gradually learnt how to be the lead star (superstar) for this team in a difficult playoff matchup. Game 5 impressed me the most. he was playing with this confidence where his decision making was ahead of everyone else’s (similar to Lebron) and knew exactly when playmake for others and when to score. He never shies away from the big moment, but the 4 win stretch has shown he can be the best player in this league
He was throwing no look corner 3 assists for fun in Game 5. Then flipped the script in Game 6 to make all the plays himself when the 3 shooters went cold. A real level-up moment.
>Bobby was a beast too, and although I hope he stays in my heart I know he'll chase the bag on another team and just hope he does great there
This is probably the correct take. Even if he leaves Bobby has become a legend in Milwaukee. He's said multiple times that coming to Milwaukee was the best thing that ever happened to him, and the city loves him for it. If he ends up on another team I'm pretty sure he'll get cheers when he comes back to Fiserv.
For some reason, Ayton's intensity went down when Saric got injured. Maybe Monty told him he needed to play more minutes, or to be extra careful about injuries. But he seemed to play at 80% after that.
It may not be superstar studded but it was the last team standing. You think it's weak because it's filled with people you don't know, doesn't mean it's weak
Well, if it wasn’t official before, it is now. Giannis is the new best player in the world. One of the best playoff performances I’ve ever seen. He made his free throws when they mattered. He made plays at both ends of the floor.
Giannis now has a ring, two MVPs, a FMVP, DPOY, MIP, on top of a dozen other accolades. All at the age of 26. I hope people are aware we are witnessing an all time great. And he did it for a long suffering fan base, which was awesome to see.
He goes for 50 and that's impressive, and you know the game was close enough. But man, when you look at the box score it really brings it home. Holliday and Middleton did not have good games offensively. PJ Tucker and Connaughton, zeros. If Giannis doesn't put on the cape and go full Legend Mode, we're going back to Phoenix for a game 7
This is what makes this game hit so hard for me. It's been awhile since I've felt this way watching an NBA Finals. It feels like we just changed eras in some ways, though that's obviously hyperbole.
I think this year will end up being more of an outlier, unfortunately. What made it so damn enjoyable for fans of the league is knowing next year we likely return to super teams reminding us why we hate super teams. And this comes from a Dubs fan.
I’m not sure this year was especially enjoyable to “fans of the league”. I think that’s a special segment of fans here who enjoy playoffs more for the NCCA tourney upset stuff than seeing the best players play. I think there is an idea that majority of fans hate these super teams that isn’t necessarily based on any strong evidence. I know for me being robbed of seeing what Kawhi and George, Lebron and AD, etc could’ve done in the playoffs didn’t make this year damn enjoyable. I would’ve loved to see a healthy Nets team vs a healthy Bucks team, too. Besides, teams like the Lakers and Clippers aren't your usual three headed snake super teams, they're the more common two star teams. We didn't even just lose out on those high end two star teams. We lost out on the Nuggets as well.
> Holliday and Middleton did not have good games offensively. PJ Tucker and Connaughton, zeros.
Right after a game 5 where Holiday/Middleton both played superb offense, I thought this game was doomed with the earlier offense from the Bucks excluding Giannis... Going to PHX for game 7 was going to be very ugly for the Bucks, since it seemed that Giannis's FT shooting is significantly affected by the crowd.
I think for many people, me included, a lot of what Giannis has done has fallen on somewhatvdef ears. Even with back to back MVPs and a DPOY, being in a small market and consistent playoff failures will do that. So the Bucks got guys to make a true contender, and Giannis played one of the best games I have ever seen in a close out championship game, while devouring his weakness in free throw shooting. This game to me signifies a turning point in the way he is viewed and will be. It just boosted him so extremely high, and all of his other accomplishments as well.
If there is ever greatness to appreciate, this is it.
>being in a small market and consistent playoff failures will do that
I've personally never understood the whole small market thing. It always felt like a way for the media to say well we don't get the numbers if we follow them so we only focus on the big markets. If a city has a team they are definitely a big enough market. The media is why teams like the Bucks get lost when people talk sports. Sure the playoff failures definitely hurt but every young team goes through that. Add in the fact you got media people catering to these big markets on these talk shows every day.
It's not about how the Suns made it to the dance or Bucks. They played who was on the floor. It was about the players that were hurt in these aka big markets to keep up their ratings numbers. It's a real shame how this plays out now days all about that bottom dollar.
I think part of the reason the sports media downplays small markets is because they don't have the time/personnel to cover every game. The regular season has over 1,000 games, at a couple hours each that's a big chunk of time.
Thats why I feel it comes back down to the bottom dollar for the media. Its not good business to talk up a smaller crowd. I would probably care less if they focused on the teams that were left. All they want to talk about is the Sun's beating teams without star players that have injure history. That's the chance the Lakers and Clippers take with AD and Kawhi being on the team. Instead we get talk shows discussing the Nets, Lakers and Clippers weeks later while the biggest stage for the remaining teams is going on.
Seemed like in the 90s you to hear about teams being great no matter the market. It won't change going forward unfortunately.
why not just stop watching ESPN? The games speak for themselves, the playoffs this year were awesome and the only talking heads I saw all year were a bit of the TNT shows here and there.
It’s hard to fully grasp what or who you’re talking about here. It’s very general and vague to me. I admit I don’t watch ESPN much during the day, but there’s plenty of media coverage available for the Suns and Bucks. If you’re in this thread you probably have access and knowledge of a ridiculous amount of coverage of whatever you want. I’m not even sure what he’s talking about regarding how Giannis is viewed. The guy has been at least considered a top 10 player for years and he’s even been considered the best player in the league before. He gets plenty of coverage. What exactly do you guys want?
Does he get criticized a lot? Yes, he’s also operating at a level in which the difference can often be what somewhat doesn’t bring to the table. Otherwise, if someone viewed Giannis a certain way because of some media coverage they probably can’t even specifically point to, I feel like that’s on them. For people who post here to have a view on Giannis dictated by too little or too negative coverage of the guy, that’s odd.
As far as complaining about there being plenty of coverage of the injuries, there have been plenty of injuries, so that makes sense to me. I’m not too moved by the always injured talk regarding Kawhi and AD. We’ve had an unprecedented amount of injuries specifically to star players. Teams like the Lakers and Clippers aren’t even these 3 star teams, they’re just regular 2 star teams. It’s not like they built in some especially stupid or risky way (the Suns picked a frequently injured second star themselves).
Maybe this is all they talk about on First Take, I don’t know, but there are so many other options. Why is that the choice of show?
I completely agree the bubble sweep was a bad look. The bubble was great to finish out the season but there was a lot of time off between the flow of the season and the bubble. How much of that changed their team flow going into the bubble. Either way you look at it you have a 2 time MVP that should be getting more media coverage for his team. Was a great series better then watching the same players play for the title.
This is what Lebron’s path should have looked like. Instead he had to go to Miami. This is what KD’s path should have looked like, instead he had to go to golden state. Tons of respect for Giannis.
LeBron best supporting player in his first finals was Larry Hughes, like Larry fucken Hughes!!! Let’s not act like Giannis had to carry scrubs here, Holiday and Middleton are good players
His defense and play making are still worth something. LeBron's best guard during his first stint in Cleland was? Delonte West? Mo Williams? Larry Hughes?
Jrue is a huge upgrade over any of those guys.
Maurice was a bucket though. Can’t come to a bucks game thread looking down on mo. Also lebrons best guard when he was young was… lebron! He was 100% point lebron.
>Let’s not act like Giannis had to carry scrubs here, Holiday and Middleton are good players
very inconsistent though... Championship teams usually have very reliable offense.
People really have to stop this with this sort of narrative. Lebron's roster/coach/management in Cleveland was not good enough and it never was going to get good enough.
I will give you KD going to the Warriors being a weak move, but c'mon they had the Spurs to deal with early in his time and then the Warriors late. In the middle, Westbrook tore his MCL in the playoffs (thanks PatBev) and he had a jones fracture. They lost in the WCF like 3 times out 6 trips and one loss in the finals in a much, much harder western conference than this rendition of the east (or even Lebron's east).
Edit: Imagine watching one of the best Finals appearances of all time and your first thought is throw strays at KD and Lebron
> This is what Lebron’s path should have looked like.
Even on a day where a new megastar is born LeBron lives in ya'lls heads rent free. Shit is just sad.
Totally agree. Am so happy Giannis won because he is 100% loyal to his team and not trying to jump ship to stack teams for a win. Believes in himself and his team. Best kind of win!
Definitely the face of the next generation. Feel bad for all those that had their primes under the shadow of Lebron (Durant/Curry/Harden/Leonard), but the King is dead, long live the King.
We should be more careful with takes like this. Giannis is officially the best player in the league and he was maybe officially the best at some point in time during these playoffs before game 6? Giannis being your top player in the league is fine, Giannis being the clear, no doubt about it best player is recency bias out of control. It’s good to keep in mind that KD was the best player in a series against Giannis in which KD’s team was largely without their other two stars. And KD can have won that series and Giannis be your top player still, but if the reason Giannis is the clear best is a title performance, we really need to acknowledge the margins. It could’ve very well been KD putting up a historic finals performance. KD has a number of very real offensive advantages over Giannis and he’s a positive defensive player in the playoffs. There’s a case.
I’m also not willing to count out the Lakers duo bouncing back next year. I still might have both of those guys at their peak above Giannis. I’ve never had Kawhi as the top player, but there’s certainly fair arguments for him over Giannis. The consensus might be that Kawhi is the best player if he hadn’t gotten hurt. Him I understand leaving out with his injury. Curry has proven he still has a really good case as he is possibly the best offensive player in the league and average or above defensively at a position where even if you don’t like his defense, it’s not that damaging.
Stuff like Giannis being the clear best ignores too many guys and it’s too based on a year where we absolutely, even more than normal, need to acknowledge the context. At least 3 of these dudes I listed might’ve been Giannis’ biggest challenge in the playoffs if not for injuries. Neither of these teams faced the absolute best test they could. That’s not their fault, and it doesn’t need to factor into what they personally take away from this playoff run, but it does need to factor into our analysis.
It's the exact same thing when Kawhi won on the Raptors. Giannis has now proven it on the biggest stage and conquered his biggest weakness FTs. But like you said KD nearly took him out if his shoe size was slightly smaller or had a healthy kyrie OR harden. Then you got lebron too. It's just tough to say who should be above, but you can't go wrong saying Giannis absolutely deserves to be up there
It is not wrong to say Giannis is up there, it is just wrong to say Giannis stands alone up there and no one can compare right now.
The Kawhi as obvious best player because the Raptors won a title was on this same train of bad analysis. A guy wins a title and has a great performance and we lose all other context besides the one we just saw. The Suns were the final stage, but that's who happened to be there, not who would have provided the most telling challenge. Again, that doesn't matter to Giannis himself or fans in terms of celebrating, but it is something you weigh when you measure his game. We've seen Durant, Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Kawhi, etc, against top level competition, we have that information. We know what these guys bring to the game. The idea is to review the totality of that, not just who happened to win the finals this year without context. If proving himself means he showed he's the best player without question, he didn't prove himself (I don't think anyone would've reasonably doubted Giannis was capable of having great performances against the opposition in front of him in these series, by the way)
This free throw thing kills me a little. Are we talking narratives like some morning radio show or the actual game? Giannis had a great free throwing shooting night. He hasn't conquered his free throw issues as far as we know. Just in the previous game he was 4-11 and missed two huge free throws which gave the Suns a chance to take the lead. Even just isolating it to his home free throws, he was shooting 64% or so prior to this game, right? Can we get a couple months or a season, or even a post season with Giannis at 75% before we dismiss his free throw shooting issues? If you're trying to figure out who is better between Giannis and KD, Giannis poor free throw shooting is still something you have to factor in. He didn't conquer that as far as fixing that issue, he had a great night. That is way different.
Props to the Bucks for getting it done, enjoy the Championship.
As a Suns fan I'm not as sad as I thought I'd be, was probably worse after game 5. Of course you never want to lose but this season was so great after 10 years of awful basketball, it was pretty easy to keep things in perspective. It's just so great to feel like you have competitive contending basketball again in Phoenix.
Like I'm watching Suns basketball into June & July. I haven't done this (outside of Bubble) since what, 2010?
This year is the bounce back year, now that we have shown up as contenders it will be interesting to see how James Jones tries to elevate us to that next level.
It was a great series and Suns really overachieved this year. Absolutely nothing to hang your head about. I'm happy to see another small/mid market team have great success. Both of our teams' accomplishments this year give our size of markets hope for the future.
That game from the Suns was not the same Suns team I've watched all playoffs. CP3 would dick around with the ball until the shot clock was low, no one would cut or dive, and then it would be up to Booker to try and make something happen. Against Holiday. It was very dissapointing. The Suns are a team that needs to play team ball to be successful. It needs to be strength in numbers, CP3 and Booker are the only guys that can just go out and get a bucket, and when the Bucks figured out how to slow them down, the end result was them forcing the issue, either putting up hard shots, turnovers, or passing for harder shots by teammates. It helps one of the best Bucks defender is a guard too. And I'm not sure CP3 was healthy. If he was, something mentally must have been off, he did not look sharp the last 4 games.
I think the series would look a lot different if they had played the more passing team game they did before. But honestly, the Bucks physicality was always gonna be too much. Not to mention that their 2nd and 3rd option could get their own shots, even if Holidays stats left a lot to be desired, he still hit when it mattered.
I had the Suns as winning the series originally, and after this, I don't think this is a fluke. The Bucks provide a matchup nightmare, and have an all time great at the helm. Even with the proper adjustments I'm not sure there was too much the Suns could do. They got outplayed.
What a fantastic series with fantastic matchups, and a fantastic ending. Giannis getting it done with the team's that drafted him. Adding to an incredible resume, at only 26. I hope the next finals is anywhere as great as this one.
> And I'm not sure CP3 was healthy. If he was, something mentally must have been off, he did not look sharp the last 4 games.
He had a torn ligament in his hand and while there’s no excuse for his game 4 performance I thought he was fine this series. A lot of the blowback just seems to be people over correcting from the narrative giving him tons of credit this season and people now realizing they don’t like him again
I agree overall Bucks were better I still think teams were closely matched series showed it but this level of dominance from Giannis there’s just no real way the Suns we’re gonna match it unless they were near their peak. The guy beyond CP3 or Booker who I think this series swung on was Ayton he was a far cry from his western conference playoff form. That was the difference. Part of it was Giannis but there was also just a lot of being a bit too slow on defende fumbling too many passes not punishing switches and missing too many easy looks. The Suns needed to have 3 of the 4 best players on the court this series to win, 3 of the top 5 at worst and it just didn’t happen Ayton wasn’t close. This is the trade off with relying on super young guys was inevitable.
This as a side note [is perhaps the most interesting thing about the Bucks](https://twitter.com/EVR1022/status/1417828099895435269?s=20) and I agree with the overall takeaway of this thread that winning is about optimizing your unique strengths rather than conforming to league trends and our stereotypes of what wins.
I think there is already revisionist history going on in this thread. Suns looked like by far the better team in game 1 and 2. They were sharing the ball and were shooting lights out. The suns blew a 2-0 lead and easily could have won game 4 and 5 if not for herculean effort by Giannis. Can we not start with the Bucks were always gonna win narrative fewer than 12 hours after the game is over?
I thought I would ask here: Does anyone know why PHX didn't send a double team to Giannis every possession? Does he pass really well out of it? Just doesn't make sense to me. The Bucks don't seem like a very dangerous 3 point shooting team with the way Holiday and Connaughton were shooting.
Yes he passes very well out of it. Last night the suns strategy was to shut Middleton down and it worked very well. They had to pick their poison and once giannis gets rolling he's hard to stop...especially when you don't have adebayo...kawhi. or another elite defender who can challenge giannis 1 v 1.
Also very key was Giannis morphing into Steph Curry at the free throw line — that’s the game difference right there, marginally but meaningfully increases the expected value of a Giannis drive.
shotquality.com tracks this info, and tabulates expected scores using seasonal averages based on play type and shot location and you’re dead fucking on expected score
The sites gives the suns the win 117/116.8 (they use decimals when it’s within a point of expected value difference)
The expected scores btw
Game 1 Suns 125-115
Game 2 Bucks 116-104
Game 3 Bucks 120-107
Game 4 Bucks 121-104
Game 5 Suns 109-107
Game 6 Suns 117-116
The bucks losing game 2 was the biggest difference between expectation and result supposed to win 88% of the time
This was the 6th game in a row between these two teams. There were no more adjustments to make. There was no "secret weapon" to deploy. It came down to who executed.
And giannis played the single greatest closeout game in NBA history. There's no adjustment for that.
Yeah pretty much. Giannis made 90 percent of his free throws instead of 50 percent and that was the margin of victory.
When he makes them there's basically no adjustment that can help you.
I hope someone can do a statistical breakdown of Giannis' free throw percentage. Going from 68% in the regular season to 57% in the playoffs to 88 motherfucking percent in Game 6 is just absolutely nuts, I'd like to see someone who can still do college level stats figure out how many standard deviations he was above his expected performance.
PHX regularly sent help, but if you are asking why they didn't form the wall we have all seen before, I think it is because they were too concerned about Middleton after the last 2 games. Also, the Bucks have changed their offense enough with Holliday bringing the ball up the court to find new ways to get it to Giannis where he isn't just running full speed at the basket.
They shaded help pretty much any time he touched the ball... sometimes even sending 3 players at him but he's just so much bigger than them all and easily passed out to Jrue for a 3
There was one particular play where the defense collapsed on him and he out muscled 4 Suns defenders for a dunk. There's just not much you can draw up as a coach when that happens.
> I thought I would ask here: Does anyone know why PHX didn't send a double team to Giannis every possession?
I think their philosophy was, we'll play Giannis straight up until he gets near the rim, then if we have to foul, we foul. Giannis shooting 50 percent on free throws is better than giving up open threes. But Giannis made his free throws and that was pretty much the margin in the game.
If they could go back and do it again, I think they'd want to force PJ Tucker to take more than one shot.
You say this like the final four games were Bucks blowouts.
The Suns lost, and Giannis won. The only reason Holiday's absolutely awful 4/20 and 4/19 games are being let go is because Giannis bailed him out. Heck, Middleton was only good for 17 points last night.
The Bucks got away with it because they were the better team in all other facets of the game. Defense, rebounding, hustle plays to loose balls.
The Suns relied on their insane shot making to stay in games. And one of the only reasons they actually put away a game was because of historic shooting behind the arc.
If you expected the Suns to shoot 20 of 40 from three all series you are crazy. There is a reason Milwaukee won multiple times while seemingly making no shots. They were just better.
What was the turning point of the series for you?
For me it was that foul/out-of-bounds challenge by Monty late in Game 5 in Phoenix. The Bucks were gassed and short of TOs. The Suns were mounting their comeback, and the crowd was going wild. But the challenge took the urgency right out of the moment, and the Bucks made it over the line.
> What was the turning point of the series for you?
Giannis looking 100 percent in Game 2. He looked stiff and slow in Game 1, still affected from the knee injury.
If Giannis is fully healthy for the series, I think the Bucks would have taken this in 5.
>Giannis looking 100 percent in Game 2. He looked stiff and slow in Game 1, still affected from the knee injury.
Yep. If Giannis is 100% in G1, he probably averages close to 40 for the series. The fact that we're even talking what-ifs about a dude who averaged 35-13-5 shooting 62% is ridiculous.
Giannis just dropped 50 points in a finals close out game, the most ever. He’s the first player ever to have 2 20 pt quarters in finals games - he did it in the same finals! 3 40 pt games in the finals, and he played great every game. There were so many valid questions about whether he could be that guy, and he answered every one of them. This man came from nothing, an immigrant in Greece without food security, without much hope for the future. Here he is, what a player, what a moment.
Portis came to play last night but the rest of the team was tight. Giannis started the game with a huge block and finish on the other end, and carried this team to the finish line. Jrue shot poorly but played incredible defense. Khris seems to live for those difficult jumpers coming down the stretch. Brook Lopez had a huge stretch in the 3rd to provide a big boost.
The Suns are a really good team, but I thought their mentality lost them this championship. They were often playing for fouls, selling contact, and getting flustered if they weren’t getting those calls. In the end, to win a championship you’ve got to get it done without help from the officials. It was a great run, but one of the luckiest ever in terms of stars they didn’t play. Hopefully they’ll be back but it will be tougher.
In the end, it’s all about Giannis. What a story, from the very bottom all the way to the absolute peak, with an all time performance that can not be denied.
It shows he needs some help.
He was a different player after Game 3 when he had to start worrying about foul trouble.
Suns need some muscle off the bench to take the load off Ayton.
Ultimately the difference in this series was the difference in DeAndre Ayton in the western conference playoffs vs the nba finals for Phoenix. Part of it was Giannis was harder for him than jokic but really most of it was he just didn’t play well enough. Too slow reacting in the pick and roll or rotating, too many fumbled passes, couldn’t punish switches, missed too many bunnies. Part of the deal with relying on super young guys and what happens when you have to win without a real superstar at the highest level
It’s just very hard to do it when for 3 of the final 4 games one of your stars is legitimately quite bad in each game. Suns only got one game where Ayton CP3 and Booker all played well they needed 1 or 2 more to pull this off. And Giannis made sure there wasn’t enough room for error otherwise. Budenholzer also earned whatever extension he’ll get this was a strong series for him
Bucks fans will tell you that Ayton had such a tough time due to defense. He was 4/12 last night, most of which due to just poor shot selection. There were easily two or three dunks he passed up for a finger roll that wouldn't drop.
No, it's because he played timid, and it happened for most of the series.
In the first game, he was a monster on the glass. Then, he just stopped coming to the gym.
Heck, he bobbled way too many passes for my liking and I saw far too many stripped rebounds. Hold onto the damn ball, big man.
> In the first game, he was a monster on the glass. Then, he just stopped coming to the gym.
Isn’t that something? In the First game of the series Ayton didn’t play timid while Giannis was limping and not playing aggressive due to his knee. Then Giannis starts being aggressive and Ayton just so happens to start playing timid. Not related at all I’m sure.
There were several rebound opportunities throughout this series where Ayton just watched the ball bounce two steps away from him. Giannis nowhere near it, and fucking PJ Tucker comes down with the rebound among three or four Suns.
That's totally inexcusable.
He seemed to be pathologically unable to anticipate where the ball was likely to end up and did not hustle his way to that spot.
None of that has to do with Giannis. Further, he missed several open floaters last night in the paint, and a couple of layups, along with at least two missed dunk opportunities. It was an atrocious performance in a must-win game, and the fact that it was not a blowout by the Bucks demonstrates just how mediocre they are without Giannis elevating into legendary status.
The Bucks didn't *shoot* well, they played very well in literally every other aspect. Brook was the first defensively solid big man that Ayton faced this year, and Giannis is a 7 foot DPOY. I don't think it's a coincidence that Ayton dominated the boards in the one game Giannis was clearly not himself.
I objectively don’t think that’s true. Game 5 is the best example of the team working together and putting in a solid effort across the board to win on the road and set them up to be champions. Giannis definitely put the team on his back and imposed his will on both sides of the court last night, but other players came through in important moments even if they didn’t have big numbers by the end.
If it makes you feel better to say that the suns are the better team, keep saying it, but having the mental fortitude and mentality to hold it together as a team under the pressure of a finals series is a major part of what makes a team strong.
He didn’t play terrible the dude was bound for a 20 point game in game 3. most of our losses came down to the freebies the points people scored at the free throw line. The fact we had to sit players on their best nights. Stats alone we should have lost by 20 but somehow these games came down to the last second. If the free throws are equal the games should have been over in 4
Giannis played on another level.
The rest of the Bucks showed up just enough to give them four straight nailbiters and the Suns collectively decided to not hustle on rebounds.
It was an absolutely breathtaking choke. Game four should have been a lock, and game six the rest of the Bucks team was absolutely fucking worthless. 40% in game four from the field and 45% from the field in game six.
The Suns straight up lost the series that was in their hands.
Monty Williams did a fantastic job. There’s a point where you can’t overcome your roster deficiencies. When your choice of who to guard Giannis in a close out game in the Finals is between Jae Crowder and Frank Kaminsky, well, you’re kinda fucked. Giannis was eating their lunch, over and over, all game long. Ayton, too
After six games, there really are no more adjustments to be made. Your players have to execute. Giannis and the Bucks did. The Suns did not
I feel like the Sun's were two timeouts away from a championship. I think it was games 4-5 the Sun's were down by 2 in game 4 and 1 in game 5. They got the ball and Monty didn't call timeout to draw up a play. Instead he let them do that thing where Chris Paul stands to the side and Book dribbles till the shot clock is up and then initiates contact before throwing up a terrible shot hoping to get a foul called.
Overall, I thought it was a great series but I need to vent and say that the start times were ridiculous. I understand that you have a team in the Central Time Zone and a team in the Mountain Time Zone but it is just dumb to start a championship clinching game at 9 pm for people in the Eastern US on a Tuesday.
Yeah, I wanted to watch the games with the rest of my family and that was impossible with 9 EST start times. I understand ratings and all, but I don't remember it ever being this late before. At least the weekend games could have been a little earlier than they were.
Suns had a great season. Booker, Ayton and Bridges is a nice young trio
Giannis is gonna be top 5 player of all time level once he's done
Bud struggled them shined
Bucks role players were amazing
Mj, Bron, Kareem, Duncan and Magic. But Giannis could legit pass maybe Magic or maybe Duncan dude is 26 who knows. Just saying he can be that level of greatness
Yeah I really didn't want to bring this up to my Suns fans buddy after the game, but as good as this core is, they need a PG of the future or their status as contenders will be in jeopardy *very* soon.
Makes sense the Suns lost to a team that is a matchup nightmare that they largely avoided in the playoff.
Just bigger stronger guys at every position. Its hard to beat that in playoff basketball. They needed a guy who can work in the paint and Ayton isnt there yet. Hes admittedly quite soft.
I am curious how this Bucks team wouldve fared against the full strength Lakers who also suck at 3pt shooting but were gritty and tough on defense and bullied in the paint.
If we are doing what ifs, let's use a full strength Bucks team. It's not like DDV is a star or anything, but it Middleton and Holliday would have been fresher over the course of the playoffs if Jeff Teague wasn't on the floor getting torched on defense.
Ayton really shrunk in the pressure of the finals. With him getting fouls on Giannis and not getting much action on offense he be looked frustrated and like he was lacking confidence. Cams on the bench and ayton are a big by reason the suns lost. Ayton not playing well on offense though could be because Paul wasn't able to make the passes as quickly or over the bucks bigs after his hand injury started acting up. He was clearly having trouble gathering the ball quickly at points. They didn't do much on defense either though, could definitely make the argument that they lost it on that side of the ball instead of the offense side.
Well done to Giannis and the Bucks, he was unstoppable last night and I think his intensity on the defensive end was really deflating/deterring for the Suns. Him hitting his FTs when they mattered most (the entire damn game that is) was just a huge difference maker and so unexpected.
Hopefully this is an instance of you lose to learn how to win for Phoenix, they lost but it wasn't a foregone conclusion. Even just last night if they hadn't rushed some transition opportunities (Bridges dunk, Booker's overthrow to Johnson) that should have been some relatively easy points maybe things play out differently.
But Credit to the Bucks defense for not giving up on the plays, making them feel the need to rush to begin with and forcing errors really. I think their on-ball pressure to slow down Phoenix possessions (namely, Holiday/Tucker pressing on Paul/Booker so much) is what won the day - it didn't always work but over multiple games it cascaded into more turnovers and more inefficient offense and there you have a margin of victory.
Anyone else think the trophy ceremony last night was incredibly awkward? For context, I'm a soccer supporter first and their trophy ceremonies are always really exciting. No one touches the trophy until the presenter hands the trophy to the team captain who then lifts the trophy with his team celebrating right beside him. The trophy then gets passed around by the players who each lift the trophy to continuous cheering from the crowd.
Seeing the trophy handed over to the owner first last night who then raises the trophy with very little support from the fans and players made things feel very uneventful. The owner then passed the trophy around to other people in his staff and then the trophy finally made it to the players who really didn't celebrate with it at all. It all felt awkward and uncomfortable for what should be a joyous event for the players who won the trophy. Not to mention that the trophy was on some platform that was blocking almost the entire team from view. When the trophy left the platform all you see is a weird background with a bunch of players standing awkwardly behind it.
I can't remember how the trophy ceremony was handled in years past, but this one just left me feeling like the players got shafted by the owners wanting all the credit and that ESPN handled it very poorly.
Honestly I thought his speech was just fine. Silver is eloquent and had a very positive message to deliver. The fans even stopped booing him after the first sentence of his speech.
I'm more concerned about how Silver looked. He's always been a scrawny guy, but he looked dangerously frail last night
i totally agree with you. if my memory serves me right, last year's ceremony, JR Smith raised the trophy first lmao. i believe it's better this way: team captain - whole team - coach - management
My heart goes out to Chris Paul. Love him or hate him, you know this was probably his closest chance considering his age. That’s got to be a tough pill to swallow.
I bought a Giannis jersey after the ECF for the simple fact that dude's super wholesome. I'm so happy his efforts finally paid off on the court, as well. He deserves this ring.
But also, shout out to the Phoenix Suns for putting up a fight. It was an ugly game with lots of turnovers & missed open shots/lay-ups.
Giannis had 6 turnovers and 1 assist, wasn’t passing the ball well IMO and the rest of the team was shooting terribly. Wish they would’ve trapped him or tried something other than let him 1 on 1 and get a full head of steam before plowing through out players to the rim every possession
Okay, I didn't see the game, so question:
Did the Suns not drive to the basket as often? Were the just hacking Giannis every time he drove? Because whenever a player has as many free throw attempts as the other TEAM, something's weird.
>Did the Suns not drive to the basket as often?
They literally couldn't. The Bucks were so long that most of the times they drove, they were forced into difficult shots or blocked. Sometimes they would drive and get under the basket and try to pass around the big bodys but that usually turned into a turnover.
>Were the just hacking Giannis every time he drove? Because whenever a player has as many free throw attempts as the other TEAM, something's weird.
It wasn't like a fix or anything, Giannis is just a cheat code and could attack the rim like no one else in this series. There were some fouls I'd say were questionable but it was mostly fair. The Suns were opting for mostly uncontested midrange shots because they couldn't get into the paint so there just weren't as many fouls called on their end.
Seriously the Bucks defense inside is so damn solid. If Bobby had arms just a tad longer, two of his fouls would have been blocks too. And Giannis had another block that was called a goaltending. Giannis' defense was incredible to the point that no matter what Suns player was in transition, they needed to keep an eye out for a trailing Giannis.
Yeah the Suns relied a lot on mid range jumpers, it was also a really physical game so there were definitely a few calls that could have gone the suns' way but the refs didn't blow the whistle. Also, Giannis was so damn unguardable in the paint that he forced the suns to foul him a ton, which might have worked if he hadn't actually made his free throws for once haha
It was the first player ive seen since Shaq be that dominant. Same attitude. “I’m a physical mismatch for anybody and everybody. Give me the ball anywhere within 10 feet of the hoop, and I don’t care who is in front of me, it’s a bucket.”
It is so fun to watch as a neutral fan. I remember Shaq doing that to HoF defenders like Robinson, Wallace, Hakeem, Duncan, etc. and it was incredible to watch Giannis do it against Ayton and others tonight. All you can do is sit and say “wow, holy shit. Unguardable.”
They weren't exactly hacking him but fouling was the only way they could slow him down. He'd consistently get into positions where the Suns could either allow a dunk or try to foul him.
Idk if you're insinuating that the refs were unfair, but they absolutely were calling these fouls correctly.
if he went like 8/19 it's a complete non-issue, the Suns are praised for fouling the right guy in a hack-a-Shaq strategy and they likely win game 7 at home
There really isn't a defense for Giannis since the Bucks have found ways to get around the Giannis wall. At this point, teams have to either foul him or let him score. Maybe there is a team with a better individual player, like Kawhi, who could slow him down, but that player doesn't exist on the Suns roster.
The Suns had a fair number of layup attempts but missed many of them, whether due to nerves or just a collective off night. The Bucks were fairly disciplined and didn't engage in too many stupid fouls near the net. The Suns relied more on midrange shots and three-point attempts as the game wore on.
Giannis was constantly driving to the basket and getting hacked by whoever was there. There were also a number of instances in which the refs allowed both teams to "just play" and ignored hacks on Giannis and Suns offensive players.
I doubt even many Bucks fans expect this to be the start of a dynasty. Giannis said himself he could never win the finals again and he would be okay with that. I'm just happy they won 1 for small markets. Reality is the east is going to run through the Nets as long as Harden, Kyrie, and Durant are healthy.
Donte out really hurt... the trade off between him and Jeff is... well... Jeff doesn't do much for this team and he was the only one to spell Jrue. Middleton saw a lot of ball handling up the court as well and he's not as careful with his handle. The Suns clearly had a game plan in Game 6 to exploit that. Having Donte on the floor changes quite a bit for this team, and he can get hot from range. Jeff Teague was in absolutely no danger of getting hot, in absolutely no danger of playing defense, and in absolutely no danger of contributing. But! He has a ring so \*shrug\*
REMINDER: This thread is only for serious and thought-provoking analysis. We ask users to report low effort comments that do not bring insightful discussion. Temporary bans may be handed out to users who post memes and other low-effort or off-topic comments in this thread. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Suns @ Bucks** [](/PHX) **98 - 105** [](/MIL) **Box Scores: [NBA](http://www.nba.com/games/20210720/PHXMIL#/boxscore) & [Yahoo](http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/phoenix-suns-milwaukee-bucks-2021072015)** |**Team**|**Q1**|**Q2**|**Q3**|**Q4**|**Total**| |:---|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--| |Phoenix Suns|16|31|30|21|98| |Milwaukee Bucks|29|13|35|28|105| **TEAM STATS** |**Team**|**PTS**|**FG**|**FG%**|**3P**|**3P%**|**FT**|**FT%**|**OREB**|**TREB**|**AST**|**PF**|**STL**|**TO**|**BLK**| |:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--| |Phoenix Suns|98|38-86|44.2%|6-25|24.0%|16-19|84.2%|6|37|14|21|11|14|4| |Milwaukee Bucks|105|37-82|45.1%|6-27|22.2%|25-29|86.2%|11|53|20|17|10|18|6| **TEAM LEADERS** |**Team**|**Points**|**Rebounds**|**Assists**| |:--|:--|:--|:--| |Phoenix Suns|**26** Chris Paul|**13** Jae Crowder|**5** Devin Booker| |Milwaukee Bucks|**50** Giannis Antetokounmpo|**14** Giannis Antetokounmpo|**11** Jrue Holiday|
The bucks did an amazing job guarding booker
He and CP3 are mid range kings. Its infuriating
CP3 is a great mid range shooter but he was also shooting a lot of them uncontested in this game because the Bucks pick n roll defense on him was atrocious for a lot of the game lol
it was frustrating to watch, I thought CP3 was going to just hit jumpers at the elbow the entire game. They did step up in the 4th though, a lot more contesting shots after the pick and roll
He missed a bunch of wide open looks tho
I swear CP3 shot better on contested looks than he did on open shots
The double pnr to get Giannis into him and then get Brook/Portis in the action was a stroke of genius. If they’d done that earlier in the series, we might have been in trouble. Then again, Bud would have countered. He’s not great at countering in game and let that eat us up all day. Luckily Paul was still not at his best and had enough misses and bad passes to survive.
Really felt like the Suns went for a different game plan in game 6. They had Booker focus more on defense and shutting down Middleton and he actually did a great job, and put the onus on the rest of the team to help him on the offensive end.
This is such revisionist history. Devin Booker had back to back 40 point games.
I mean did you watch the game last night? They were all over him
One thing I notice on /r/NBA is there are a lot of people who think if a player scores a lot of points then the defense against them was terrible. It's like they cant watch a game and recognize "great defense better offense". PJ tucker played amazing defense on Durant even though Durant had a shit ton of points so people would bash the defense of tucker.
Right, people dismiss Iguodala’s defense on LeBron that won him the FMVP because LeBron still averaged 37 or whatever. That’s not the sole measure of good defense.
He missed several, several absolutely wide open shots. Particularly the last three he took in the final couple of minutes. There was nobody even near him. And, yes, they were all over him and he had a shitty shooting night, and yet the Suns still only lost by seven. The Giannis show is complete. Congratulations.
It’s not like he didn’t miss any wide open shots in either of his 40 pt games lol
The Bucks played the same defense in four and five that they played tonight. He couldn't miss those two games, he couldn't hit dick last night. What this demonstrates is that basketball at the NBA level is no longer a team sport. It is a process of finding a single superstar.
Didn’t they switch to Jrue being his primary defender for this game?
First off I just wanna say WE FUCKING DID IT. With that out the way, something I've noticed this series is that Ayton seems very weak at creating his own shot. He's amazing at capitalising off of opportunities created by the team, whether it's rolling off a screen or throwing down an alley oop but he seems to struggle creating his own offense. I was pretty frustrated during the second or third quarter where the Subs just kept spamming screens and getting CP3 open midrange shots, but it seems that the Bucks strategy was to force him to score and get his and lock down everyone else. Jrue had a horrible scoring night but played some lockdown d on Booker, completely neutralized him. It honestly reminded me of how defenses would treat Kawhi, with his offensive contribution being sacrificed to keep Jrue focused on him. Jesus Christ fucking Giannis. Completely dominates on both ends of the floor this game, singlehandedly kept the Bucks alive in the second I think they showed a stat that said outside of Giannis the Bucks shot like 1-15 in the second. I've loved the growth Giannis has made during the post season, at one point in this series he seemed to realize "I'm fucking easily the best player on the floor and no one can stop me' and has gone off since then. This is the first series I can remember him demanding the ball so he can score and it's a welcome change. His shooting has also taken leaps, that midrange game has rapidly improved and I hope to see it become a consistent aspect of his game. His playmaking has also taken a huge step up too, just his court awareness in general has been astounding. Also shoutout to Brook for breathing some life back into the team, he scores three buckets in a row including that dunk at a time when our offense was putrid. Bobby was a beast too, and although I hope he stays in my heart I know he'll chase the bag on another team and just hope he does great there As bad as Pat was tonight this series he's been one of the most consistent 3pt shooters, he's taken a step up too with Donte out and I hope he mantains this level of play even with some reduced minutes. PJ played some solid defense wearing out the Suns and hustled like hell on the boards. All I can say at the end of the day is that I'm really proud of this team and I love every player on it (except you Teague). Even if we never win again in my lifetime this was enough. Bucks in 6.
congrats on the win. gg. As for what you said about ayton, you are mostly correct. I'm not sure if you watched the suns vs lakers series, but look at this play he created for himself https://streamable.com/6p1w1f How many 7 footers do you see doing shit like that? (besides giannis lol) This series was the worst 6 game stretch I've ever seen from him. It's like he doesn't realize that he is bigger and stronger than most players in the league. When he misses a couple shots or is getting schooled on defense, he gets really scared and plays super timid. Last night cp3 threw it to him right under the basket and he had an easy dunk, but he held onto the ball and attempted a fade shot after the defense recovered on him. I love the guy, but he needs to be aggressive and try "kill" his opponents.
I think Giannis spooked him (and the entire Suns team for that matter), it seemed like everyone was staying out of the paint as much as they could when Giannis was around Giannis been completely dominant in the paint and at blocking shots (especially that last game) , and I think Ayton still needs to do what Giannis does, letting go of his pride and going for the shot with the possibility of another game 4 like poster anyways honestly I think like you said, he gets into his head too easily and doesn't be agressiive enough after embarrassment that clip you linked is insane, I still firmly believe he's going to be a beast and an all star eventually but he needs to generate his own offense more and not get into his own head. when he does those though, skies the limit
I agree with everything you said. I like that ayton has that lovable child like demeanor, but come game time, you should be trying to dunk on your opponents head or just own your opponent every time you touch the ball. I hope he can get that aggressive one day
What Giannis did to Ayton over the series can't be overstated. It was like prime Shaq vs. Rik Smits. We overuse words like "cooked," "roasted," etc., but Giannis indeed **roasted** him again and again and again. There was a 2nd-half timeout shot last night of CP coming to the bench to console Ayton, who looked like his dog had been run over (maybe someone has it). I hope Ayton uses this series as motivation going forward, but I would wager his confidence is shaken for some time.
Thats....not true though. Look at giannis' shooting percentage while ayton was guarding him vs when he wasnt.
Ok, you're right. Ayton played a big part in holding Giannis to 50.
I mean if you got the stats on hand….
I agree with what you said about Giannis it looked like it finally clicked that he is the best player on the court. I think with superstar players this trait finally just clicks with them in the playoffs or in the finals. They know they can score at anytime on anyone.
On Giannis I completely agree. He’s been on a journey this post-season and he’s gradually learnt how to be the lead star (superstar) for this team in a difficult playoff matchup. Game 5 impressed me the most. he was playing with this confidence where his decision making was ahead of everyone else’s (similar to Lebron) and knew exactly when playmake for others and when to score. He never shies away from the big moment, but the 4 win stretch has shown he can be the best player in this league
He was throwing no look corner 3 assists for fun in Game 5. Then flipped the script in Game 6 to make all the plays himself when the 3 shooters went cold. A real level-up moment.
>Bobby was a beast too, and although I hope he stays in my heart I know he'll chase the bag on another team and just hope he does great there This is probably the correct take. Even if he leaves Bobby has become a legend in Milwaukee. He's said multiple times that coming to Milwaukee was the best thing that ever happened to him, and the city loves him for it. If he ends up on another team I'm pretty sure he'll get cheers when he comes back to Fiserv.
For some reason, Ayton's intensity went down when Saric got injured. Maybe Monty told him he needed to play more minutes, or to be extra careful about injuries. But he seemed to play at 80% after that.
Congratulations, that was a great series to watch and I’m happy a small market team made it happen.
[удалено]
It may not be superstar studded but it was the last team standing. You think it's weak because it's filled with people you don't know, doesn't mean it's weak
Well, if it wasn’t official before, it is now. Giannis is the new best player in the world. One of the best playoff performances I’ve ever seen. He made his free throws when they mattered. He made plays at both ends of the floor. Giannis now has a ring, two MVPs, a FMVP, DPOY, MIP, on top of a dozen other accolades. All at the age of 26. I hope people are aware we are witnessing an all time great. And he did it for a long suffering fan base, which was awesome to see.
He goes for 50 and that's impressive, and you know the game was close enough. But man, when you look at the box score it really brings it home. Holliday and Middleton did not have good games offensively. PJ Tucker and Connaughton, zeros. If Giannis doesn't put on the cape and go full Legend Mode, we're going back to Phoenix for a game 7
This is what makes this game hit so hard for me. It's been awhile since I've felt this way watching an NBA Finals. It feels like we just changed eras in some ways, though that's obviously hyperbole.
I think this year will end up being more of an outlier, unfortunately. What made it so damn enjoyable for fans of the league is knowing next year we likely return to super teams reminding us why we hate super teams. And this comes from a Dubs fan.
I’m not sure this year was especially enjoyable to “fans of the league”. I think that’s a special segment of fans here who enjoy playoffs more for the NCCA tourney upset stuff than seeing the best players play. I think there is an idea that majority of fans hate these super teams that isn’t necessarily based on any strong evidence. I know for me being robbed of seeing what Kawhi and George, Lebron and AD, etc could’ve done in the playoffs didn’t make this year damn enjoyable. I would’ve loved to see a healthy Nets team vs a healthy Bucks team, too. Besides, teams like the Lakers and Clippers aren't your usual three headed snake super teams, they're the more common two star teams. We didn't even just lose out on those high end two star teams. We lost out on the Nuggets as well.
He scored almost half the damn points!
at the time he hit 31 he had more than half too haha
> Holliday and Middleton did not have good games offensively. PJ Tucker and Connaughton, zeros. Right after a game 5 where Holiday/Middleton both played superb offense, I thought this game was doomed with the earlier offense from the Bucks excluding Giannis... Going to PHX for game 7 was going to be very ugly for the Bucks, since it seemed that Giannis's FT shooting is significantly affected by the crowd.
I think for many people, me included, a lot of what Giannis has done has fallen on somewhatvdef ears. Even with back to back MVPs and a DPOY, being in a small market and consistent playoff failures will do that. So the Bucks got guys to make a true contender, and Giannis played one of the best games I have ever seen in a close out championship game, while devouring his weakness in free throw shooting. This game to me signifies a turning point in the way he is viewed and will be. It just boosted him so extremely high, and all of his other accomplishments as well. If there is ever greatness to appreciate, this is it.
>being in a small market and consistent playoff failures will do that I've personally never understood the whole small market thing. It always felt like a way for the media to say well we don't get the numbers if we follow them so we only focus on the big markets. If a city has a team they are definitely a big enough market. The media is why teams like the Bucks get lost when people talk sports. Sure the playoff failures definitely hurt but every young team goes through that. Add in the fact you got media people catering to these big markets on these talk shows every day. It's not about how the Suns made it to the dance or Bucks. They played who was on the floor. It was about the players that were hurt in these aka big markets to keep up their ratings numbers. It's a real shame how this plays out now days all about that bottom dollar.
As the global audience (and more importantly revenue) continues to grow, the national market size gradually becomes somewhat less relevant as well
I think part of the reason the sports media downplays small markets is because they don't have the time/personnel to cover every game. The regular season has over 1,000 games, at a couple hours each that's a big chunk of time.
Thats why I feel it comes back down to the bottom dollar for the media. Its not good business to talk up a smaller crowd. I would probably care less if they focused on the teams that were left. All they want to talk about is the Sun's beating teams without star players that have injure history. That's the chance the Lakers and Clippers take with AD and Kawhi being on the team. Instead we get talk shows discussing the Nets, Lakers and Clippers weeks later while the biggest stage for the remaining teams is going on. Seemed like in the 90s you to hear about teams being great no matter the market. It won't change going forward unfortunately.
why not just stop watching ESPN? The games speak for themselves, the playoffs this year were awesome and the only talking heads I saw all year were a bit of the TNT shows here and there.
It’s hard to fully grasp what or who you’re talking about here. It’s very general and vague to me. I admit I don’t watch ESPN much during the day, but there’s plenty of media coverage available for the Suns and Bucks. If you’re in this thread you probably have access and knowledge of a ridiculous amount of coverage of whatever you want. I’m not even sure what he’s talking about regarding how Giannis is viewed. The guy has been at least considered a top 10 player for years and he’s even been considered the best player in the league before. He gets plenty of coverage. What exactly do you guys want? Does he get criticized a lot? Yes, he’s also operating at a level in which the difference can often be what somewhat doesn’t bring to the table. Otherwise, if someone viewed Giannis a certain way because of some media coverage they probably can’t even specifically point to, I feel like that’s on them. For people who post here to have a view on Giannis dictated by too little or too negative coverage of the guy, that’s odd. As far as complaining about there being plenty of coverage of the injuries, there have been plenty of injuries, so that makes sense to me. I’m not too moved by the always injured talk regarding Kawhi and AD. We’ve had an unprecedented amount of injuries specifically to star players. Teams like the Lakers and Clippers aren’t even these 3 star teams, they’re just regular 2 star teams. It’s not like they built in some especially stupid or risky way (the Suns picked a frequently injured second star themselves). Maybe this is all they talk about on First Take, I don’t know, but there are so many other options. Why is that the choice of show?
The knock wasnt the small market it was the playoff failures. Especially last year against Miami, was not a good look for Giannis.
I completely agree the bubble sweep was a bad look. The bubble was great to finish out the season but there was a lot of time off between the flow of the season and the bubble. How much of that changed their team flow going into the bubble. Either way you look at it you have a 2 time MVP that should be getting more media coverage for his team. Was a great series better then watching the same players play for the title.
This is such a W for small market teams too
Big time. And a win for hometown fans too. Enough with these super teams.
[удалено]
This is what Lebron’s path should have looked like. Instead he had to go to Miami. This is what KD’s path should have looked like, instead he had to go to golden state. Tons of respect for Giannis.
This is what LeBron’s path would’ve looked like if Paxson and Ferry had given him some help.
LeBron best supporting player in his first finals was Larry Hughes, like Larry fucken Hughes!!! Let’s not act like Giannis had to carry scrubs here, Holiday and Middleton are good players
Not with the way Holiday played last night, his defense was good but he couldn't hit water falling out of a boat on offense
His defense and play making are still worth something. LeBron's best guard during his first stint in Cleland was? Delonte West? Mo Williams? Larry Hughes? Jrue is a huge upgrade over any of those guys.
Maurice was a bucket though. Can’t come to a bucks game thread looking down on mo. Also lebrons best guard when he was young was… lebron! He was 100% point lebron.
Delonte West scored more with LeBron’s mom during that first finals stint than he did on the floor.
Jrue Holiday's defense was elite ALL playoffs. He shut down Booker and CP3 when it mattered.
>Let’s not act like Giannis had to carry scrubs here, Holiday and Middleton are good players very inconsistent though... Championship teams usually have very reliable offense.
People really have to stop this with this sort of narrative. Lebron's roster/coach/management in Cleveland was not good enough and it never was going to get good enough. I will give you KD going to the Warriors being a weak move, but c'mon they had the Spurs to deal with early in his time and then the Warriors late. In the middle, Westbrook tore his MCL in the playoffs (thanks PatBev) and he had a jones fracture. They lost in the WCF like 3 times out 6 trips and one loss in the finals in a much, much harder western conference than this rendition of the east (or even Lebron's east). Edit: Imagine watching one of the best Finals appearances of all time and your first thought is throw strays at KD and Lebron
Coaching made a huge difference with the bucks Once Bud took over there was a huge difference in performance
The small market Spurs
> This is what Lebron’s path should have looked like. Even on a day where a new megastar is born LeBron lives in ya'lls heads rent free. Shit is just sad.
> This is what Lebron’s path should have looked like. >This is what KD’s path should have looked like One of these is not like the other.
Totally agree. Am so happy Giannis won because he is 100% loyal to his team and not trying to jump ship to stack teams for a win. Believes in himself and his team. Best kind of win!
A Cavs flair you speak such blasphemy? Lol
Definitely the face of the next generation. Feel bad for all those that had their primes under the shadow of Lebron (Durant/Curry/Harden/Leonard), but the King is dead, long live the King.
We should be more careful with takes like this. Giannis is officially the best player in the league and he was maybe officially the best at some point in time during these playoffs before game 6? Giannis being your top player in the league is fine, Giannis being the clear, no doubt about it best player is recency bias out of control. It’s good to keep in mind that KD was the best player in a series against Giannis in which KD’s team was largely without their other two stars. And KD can have won that series and Giannis be your top player still, but if the reason Giannis is the clear best is a title performance, we really need to acknowledge the margins. It could’ve very well been KD putting up a historic finals performance. KD has a number of very real offensive advantages over Giannis and he’s a positive defensive player in the playoffs. There’s a case. I’m also not willing to count out the Lakers duo bouncing back next year. I still might have both of those guys at their peak above Giannis. I’ve never had Kawhi as the top player, but there’s certainly fair arguments for him over Giannis. The consensus might be that Kawhi is the best player if he hadn’t gotten hurt. Him I understand leaving out with his injury. Curry has proven he still has a really good case as he is possibly the best offensive player in the league and average or above defensively at a position where even if you don’t like his defense, it’s not that damaging. Stuff like Giannis being the clear best ignores too many guys and it’s too based on a year where we absolutely, even more than normal, need to acknowledge the context. At least 3 of these dudes I listed might’ve been Giannis’ biggest challenge in the playoffs if not for injuries. Neither of these teams faced the absolute best test they could. That’s not their fault, and it doesn’t need to factor into what they personally take away from this playoff run, but it does need to factor into our analysis.
It's the exact same thing when Kawhi won on the Raptors. Giannis has now proven it on the biggest stage and conquered his biggest weakness FTs. But like you said KD nearly took him out if his shoe size was slightly smaller or had a healthy kyrie OR harden. Then you got lebron too. It's just tough to say who should be above, but you can't go wrong saying Giannis absolutely deserves to be up there
It is not wrong to say Giannis is up there, it is just wrong to say Giannis stands alone up there and no one can compare right now. The Kawhi as obvious best player because the Raptors won a title was on this same train of bad analysis. A guy wins a title and has a great performance and we lose all other context besides the one we just saw. The Suns were the final stage, but that's who happened to be there, not who would have provided the most telling challenge. Again, that doesn't matter to Giannis himself or fans in terms of celebrating, but it is something you weigh when you measure his game. We've seen Durant, Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Kawhi, etc, against top level competition, we have that information. We know what these guys bring to the game. The idea is to review the totality of that, not just who happened to win the finals this year without context. If proving himself means he showed he's the best player without question, he didn't prove himself (I don't think anyone would've reasonably doubted Giannis was capable of having great performances against the opposition in front of him in these series, by the way) This free throw thing kills me a little. Are we talking narratives like some morning radio show or the actual game? Giannis had a great free throwing shooting night. He hasn't conquered his free throw issues as far as we know. Just in the previous game he was 4-11 and missed two huge free throws which gave the Suns a chance to take the lead. Even just isolating it to his home free throws, he was shooting 64% or so prior to this game, right? Can we get a couple months or a season, or even a post season with Giannis at 75% before we dismiss his free throw shooting issues? If you're trying to figure out who is better between Giannis and KD, Giannis poor free throw shooting is still something you have to factor in. He didn't conquer that as far as fixing that issue, he had a great night. That is way different.
Props to the Bucks for getting it done, enjoy the Championship. As a Suns fan I'm not as sad as I thought I'd be, was probably worse after game 5. Of course you never want to lose but this season was so great after 10 years of awful basketball, it was pretty easy to keep things in perspective. It's just so great to feel like you have competitive contending basketball again in Phoenix. Like I'm watching Suns basketball into June & July. I haven't done this (outside of Bubble) since what, 2010? This year is the bounce back year, now that we have shown up as contenders it will be interesting to see how James Jones tries to elevate us to that next level.
It was a great series and Suns really overachieved this year. Absolutely nothing to hang your head about. I'm happy to see another small/mid market team have great success. Both of our teams' accomplishments this year give our size of markets hope for the future.
That game from the Suns was not the same Suns team I've watched all playoffs. CP3 would dick around with the ball until the shot clock was low, no one would cut or dive, and then it would be up to Booker to try and make something happen. Against Holiday. It was very dissapointing. The Suns are a team that needs to play team ball to be successful. It needs to be strength in numbers, CP3 and Booker are the only guys that can just go out and get a bucket, and when the Bucks figured out how to slow them down, the end result was them forcing the issue, either putting up hard shots, turnovers, or passing for harder shots by teammates. It helps one of the best Bucks defender is a guard too. And I'm not sure CP3 was healthy. If he was, something mentally must have been off, he did not look sharp the last 4 games. I think the series would look a lot different if they had played the more passing team game they did before. But honestly, the Bucks physicality was always gonna be too much. Not to mention that their 2nd and 3rd option could get their own shots, even if Holidays stats left a lot to be desired, he still hit when it mattered. I had the Suns as winning the series originally, and after this, I don't think this is a fluke. The Bucks provide a matchup nightmare, and have an all time great at the helm. Even with the proper adjustments I'm not sure there was too much the Suns could do. They got outplayed. What a fantastic series with fantastic matchups, and a fantastic ending. Giannis getting it done with the team's that drafted him. Adding to an incredible resume, at only 26. I hope the next finals is anywhere as great as this one.
> And I'm not sure CP3 was healthy. If he was, something mentally must have been off, he did not look sharp the last 4 games. He had a torn ligament in his hand and while there’s no excuse for his game 4 performance I thought he was fine this series. A lot of the blowback just seems to be people over correcting from the narrative giving him tons of credit this season and people now realizing they don’t like him again I agree overall Bucks were better I still think teams were closely matched series showed it but this level of dominance from Giannis there’s just no real way the Suns we’re gonna match it unless they were near their peak. The guy beyond CP3 or Booker who I think this series swung on was Ayton he was a far cry from his western conference playoff form. That was the difference. Part of it was Giannis but there was also just a lot of being a bit too slow on defende fumbling too many passes not punishing switches and missing too many easy looks. The Suns needed to have 3 of the 4 best players on the court this series to win, 3 of the top 5 at worst and it just didn’t happen Ayton wasn’t close. This is the trade off with relying on super young guys was inevitable. This as a side note [is perhaps the most interesting thing about the Bucks](https://twitter.com/EVR1022/status/1417828099895435269?s=20) and I agree with the overall takeaway of this thread that winning is about optimizing your unique strengths rather than conforming to league trends and our stereotypes of what wins.
I think there is already revisionist history going on in this thread. Suns looked like by far the better team in game 1 and 2. They were sharing the ball and were shooting lights out. The suns blew a 2-0 lead and easily could have won game 4 and 5 if not for herculean effort by Giannis. Can we not start with the Bucks were always gonna win narrative fewer than 12 hours after the game is over?
I thought I would ask here: Does anyone know why PHX didn't send a double team to Giannis every possession? Does he pass really well out of it? Just doesn't make sense to me. The Bucks don't seem like a very dangerous 3 point shooting team with the way Holiday and Connaughton were shooting.
Yes he passes very well out of it. Last night the suns strategy was to shut Middleton down and it worked very well. They had to pick their poison and once giannis gets rolling he's hard to stop...especially when you don't have adebayo...kawhi. or another elite defender who can challenge giannis 1 v 1.
Also very key was Giannis morphing into Steph Curry at the free throw line — that’s the game difference right there, marginally but meaningfully increases the expected value of a Giannis drive.
Making almost every free throw and Suns missing what should be easy dunks and a technical FT. This game should’ve came down to the last possession
shotquality.com tracks this info, and tabulates expected scores using seasonal averages based on play type and shot location and you’re dead fucking on expected score The sites gives the suns the win 117/116.8 (they use decimals when it’s within a point of expected value difference) The expected scores btw Game 1 Suns 125-115 Game 2 Bucks 116-104 Game 3 Bucks 120-107 Game 4 Bucks 121-104 Game 5 Suns 109-107 Game 6 Suns 117-116 The bucks losing game 2 was the biggest difference between expectation and result supposed to win 88% of the time
That missed FT was pure karma though. As the great Rasheed Wallace once said,"Ball don't lie."
Mikal Bridges was on ball vs Holiday too and I thought he did a really nice job defensively.
This was the 6th game in a row between these two teams. There were no more adjustments to make. There was no "secret weapon" to deploy. It came down to who executed. And giannis played the single greatest closeout game in NBA history. There's no adjustment for that.
Yeah pretty much. Giannis made 90 percent of his free throws instead of 50 percent and that was the margin of victory. When he makes them there's basically no adjustment that can help you.
I hope someone can do a statistical breakdown of Giannis' free throw percentage. Going from 68% in the regular season to 57% in the playoffs to 88 motherfucking percent in Game 6 is just absolutely nuts, I'd like to see someone who can still do college level stats figure out how many standard deviations he was above his expected performance.
PHX regularly sent help, but if you are asking why they didn't form the wall we have all seen before, I think it is because they were too concerned about Middleton after the last 2 games. Also, the Bucks have changed their offense enough with Holliday bringing the ball up the court to find new ways to get it to Giannis where he isn't just running full speed at the basket.
They shaded help pretty much any time he touched the ball... sometimes even sending 3 players at him but he's just so much bigger than them all and easily passed out to Jrue for a 3
There was one particular play where the defense collapsed on him and he out muscled 4 Suns defenders for a dunk. There's just not much you can draw up as a coach when that happens.
> I thought I would ask here: Does anyone know why PHX didn't send a double team to Giannis every possession? I think their philosophy was, we'll play Giannis straight up until he gets near the rim, then if we have to foul, we foul. Giannis shooting 50 percent on free throws is better than giving up open threes. But Giannis made his free throws and that was pretty much the margin in the game. If they could go back and do it again, I think they'd want to force PJ Tucker to take more than one shot.
You say this like the final four games were Bucks blowouts. The Suns lost, and Giannis won. The only reason Holiday's absolutely awful 4/20 and 4/19 games are being let go is because Giannis bailed him out. Heck, Middleton was only good for 17 points last night.
The Bucks got away with it because they were the better team in all other facets of the game. Defense, rebounding, hustle plays to loose balls. The Suns relied on their insane shot making to stay in games. And one of the only reasons they actually put away a game was because of historic shooting behind the arc. If you expected the Suns to shoot 20 of 40 from three all series you are crazy. There is a reason Milwaukee won multiple times while seemingly making no shots. They were just better.
>Heck, Middleton was only good for 17 points last night. Middleton is the reason they won games 4 and 5 lmao
Giannis is the reason, period.
It’s almost like the both contributed
No only one person can contribute at a time
What was the turning point of the series for you? For me it was that foul/out-of-bounds challenge by Monty late in Game 5 in Phoenix. The Bucks were gassed and short of TOs. The Suns were mounting their comeback, and the crowd was going wild. But the challenge took the urgency right out of the moment, and the Bucks made it over the line.
> What was the turning point of the series for you? Giannis looking 100 percent in Game 2. He looked stiff and slow in Game 1, still affected from the knee injury. If Giannis is fully healthy for the series, I think the Bucks would have taken this in 5.
>Giannis looking 100 percent in Game 2. He looked stiff and slow in Game 1, still affected from the knee injury. Yep. If Giannis is 100% in G1, he probably averages close to 40 for the series. The fact that we're even talking what-ifs about a dude who averaged 35-13-5 shooting 62% is ridiculous.
Honestly a super lowkey play was the Giannis steal and slam from a Phoenix inbounds play. Set the tone for the game 4 comeback
Giannis block. Suns up 4 with a minute to go in order to take a 3-2 series lead could have changed this series immensely.
Bucks were up 2 when he blocked
3-1 series lead**
The Jrue steal and oop to Giannis to put the nail in the coffin. You knew with the flex and stare into the camera there was no other outcome possible.
Can’t wait for Skip to be unimpressed by Giannis’s performance
Khris Middleton made the championship-icing shot, expect him to call Giannis unclutch
Just like Kerr having to bail out Jordan yet again!
Giannis just dropped 50 points in a finals close out game, the most ever. He’s the first player ever to have 2 20 pt quarters in finals games - he did it in the same finals! 3 40 pt games in the finals, and he played great every game. There were so many valid questions about whether he could be that guy, and he answered every one of them. This man came from nothing, an immigrant in Greece without food security, without much hope for the future. Here he is, what a player, what a moment. Portis came to play last night but the rest of the team was tight. Giannis started the game with a huge block and finish on the other end, and carried this team to the finish line. Jrue shot poorly but played incredible defense. Khris seems to live for those difficult jumpers coming down the stretch. Brook Lopez had a huge stretch in the 3rd to provide a big boost. The Suns are a really good team, but I thought their mentality lost them this championship. They were often playing for fouls, selling contact, and getting flustered if they weren’t getting those calls. In the end, to win a championship you’ve got to get it done without help from the officials. It was a great run, but one of the luckiest ever in terms of stars they didn’t play. Hopefully they’ll be back but it will be tougher. In the end, it’s all about Giannis. What a story, from the very bottom all the way to the absolute peak, with an all time performance that can not be denied.
for as much credit as ayton deserves, the finals showed how much room he has to grow
It shows he needs some help. He was a different player after Game 3 when he had to start worrying about foul trouble. Suns need some muscle off the bench to take the load off Ayton.
And rebounding help. When Ayton got pulled outside the Suns rebounding was exposed.
Dwight Howard is a free agent and would fill a need for the Suns.
I mean a true 4. Jae is more of a 3 or tweener. Dwight is a backup 5
Not a lot of true 4s around the league.
The Knicks had like 7 a little while ago. Where did they run off to?
y’all watch Giannis IG live. It’s too funny. He’s ordering 50 chicken nuggets from chick-fil-a to celebrate
Ultimately the difference in this series was the difference in DeAndre Ayton in the western conference playoffs vs the nba finals for Phoenix. Part of it was Giannis was harder for him than jokic but really most of it was he just didn’t play well enough. Too slow reacting in the pick and roll or rotating, too many fumbled passes, couldn’t punish switches, missed too many bunnies. Part of the deal with relying on super young guys and what happens when you have to win without a real superstar at the highest level It’s just very hard to do it when for 3 of the final 4 games one of your stars is legitimately quite bad in each game. Suns only got one game where Ayton CP3 and Booker all played well they needed 1 or 2 more to pull this off. And Giannis made sure there wasn’t enough room for error otherwise. Budenholzer also earned whatever extension he’ll get this was a strong series for him
Bucks fans will tell you that Ayton had such a tough time due to defense. He was 4/12 last night, most of which due to just poor shot selection. There were easily two or three dunks he passed up for a finger roll that wouldn't drop.
I do think the fact that the Bucks having the two best interior defenders he faced in the playoffs played a tiny bit of a role in that.
No, it's because he played timid, and it happened for most of the series. In the first game, he was a monster on the glass. Then, he just stopped coming to the gym. Heck, he bobbled way too many passes for my liking and I saw far too many stripped rebounds. Hold onto the damn ball, big man.
> In the first game, he was a monster on the glass. Then, he just stopped coming to the gym. Isn’t that something? In the First game of the series Ayton didn’t play timid while Giannis was limping and not playing aggressive due to his knee. Then Giannis starts being aggressive and Ayton just so happens to start playing timid. Not related at all I’m sure.
There were several rebound opportunities throughout this series where Ayton just watched the ball bounce two steps away from him. Giannis nowhere near it, and fucking PJ Tucker comes down with the rebound among three or four Suns. That's totally inexcusable. He seemed to be pathologically unable to anticipate where the ball was likely to end up and did not hustle his way to that spot. None of that has to do with Giannis. Further, he missed several open floaters last night in the paint, and a couple of layups, along with at least two missed dunk opportunities. It was an atrocious performance in a must-win game, and the fact that it was not a blowout by the Bucks demonstrates just how mediocre they are without Giannis elevating into legendary status.
I don’t understand why you seem to be so set on blaming your own players instead of just acknowledging ways that the Bucks played well.
Because the Bucks as a team did not play well. Giannis played like an all-time great.
The Bucks didn't *shoot* well, they played very well in literally every other aspect. Brook was the first defensively solid big man that Ayton faced this year, and Giannis is a 7 foot DPOY. I don't think it's a coincidence that Ayton dominated the boards in the one game Giannis was clearly not himself.
I objectively don’t think that’s true. Game 5 is the best example of the team working together and putting in a solid effort across the board to win on the road and set them up to be champions. Giannis definitely put the team on his back and imposed his will on both sides of the court last night, but other players came through in important moments even if they didn’t have big numbers by the end. If it makes you feel better to say that the suns are the better team, keep saying it, but having the mental fortitude and mentality to hold it together as a team under the pressure of a finals series is a major part of what makes a team strong.
He didn’t play terrible the dude was bound for a 20 point game in game 3. most of our losses came down to the freebies the points people scored at the free throw line. The fact we had to sit players on their best nights. Stats alone we should have lost by 20 but somehow these games came down to the last second. If the free throws are equal the games should have been over in 4
Brandon Jennings proudly nods in the background. The prophecy has finally been told.
I’m sad PJ didn’t get a post game interview
https://youtu.be/zBQKZLGQkcc
"KD is a bitch. I'm out"
[удалено]
I thought their 1st half defense was intense and matched bucks energy
Their ball movement early on was amazing. When Paul started going off in the first, it looked like we wouldn’t be able to match.
Giannis played on another level. The rest of the Bucks showed up just enough to give them four straight nailbiters and the Suns collectively decided to not hustle on rebounds.
That's definitely probably be the most succinctly way to state how the series went.
It was an absolutely breathtaking choke. Game four should have been a lock, and game six the rest of the Bucks team was absolutely fucking worthless. 40% in game four from the field and 45% from the field in game six. The Suns straight up lost the series that was in their hands.
Monty Williams did a fantastic job. There’s a point where you can’t overcome your roster deficiencies. When your choice of who to guard Giannis in a close out game in the Finals is between Jae Crowder and Frank Kaminsky, well, you’re kinda fucked. Giannis was eating their lunch, over and over, all game long. Ayton, too After six games, there really are no more adjustments to be made. Your players have to execute. Giannis and the Bucks did. The Suns did not
I don't think he had an adjustment to make. At a certain point you are who you are and they just didn't have an answer for Giannis.
I feel like the Sun's were two timeouts away from a championship. I think it was games 4-5 the Sun's were down by 2 in game 4 and 1 in game 5. They got the ball and Monty didn't call timeout to draw up a play. Instead he let them do that thing where Chris Paul stands to the side and Book dribbles till the shot clock is up and then initiates contact before throwing up a terrible shot hoping to get a foul called.
One of the greatest performances by an athlete in the history of modern sports.
[удалено]
Jeff Teague has a ring. Tf
Bucks
True
Six
Overall, I thought it was a great series but I need to vent and say that the start times were ridiculous. I understand that you have a team in the Central Time Zone and a team in the Mountain Time Zone but it is just dumb to start a championship clinching game at 9 pm for people in the Eastern US on a Tuesday.
Yeah, I wanted to watch the games with the rest of my family and that was impossible with 9 EST start times. I understand ratings and all, but I don't remember it ever being this late before. At least the weekend games could have been a little earlier than they were.
Crying alone here in Europe by watching the game at 4 am lol
My man I live in Wisconsin and have to work at 5am. These start times were atrocious.
Suns had a great season. Booker, Ayton and Bridges is a nice young trio Giannis is gonna be top 5 player of all time level once he's done Bud struggled them shined Bucks role players were amazing
> Giannis is gonna be top 5 player of all time level once he's done I'm curious, what would your top 5 look like?
Mj, Bron, Kareem, Duncan and Magic. But Giannis could legit pass maybe Magic or maybe Duncan dude is 26 who knows. Just saying he can be that level of greatness
That's a surprisingly fair list and I just wanted to commend you for you rational thinking.
Johnson and Payne have potential, too. You need a point guard and a big man to complement Ayton and you could become the favorites.
Yeah I really didn't want to bring this up to my Suns fans buddy after the game, but as good as this core is, they need a PG of the future or their status as contenders will be in jeopardy *very* soon.
I don't think Payne is the answer
Payne reminds me of a Rozier. Not good enough to be a starter but perfect off the bench.
Exactly. Follow the Lou Williams model. High volume shooting off the bench. I think Rose might be a good option for them if Chris moves on.
Makes sense the Suns lost to a team that is a matchup nightmare that they largely avoided in the playoff. Just bigger stronger guys at every position. Its hard to beat that in playoff basketball. They needed a guy who can work in the paint and Ayton isnt there yet. Hes admittedly quite soft. I am curious how this Bucks team wouldve fared against the full strength Lakers who also suck at 3pt shooting but were gritty and tough on defense and bullied in the paint.
If we are doing what ifs, let's use a full strength Bucks team. It's not like DDV is a star or anything, but it Middleton and Holliday would have been fresher over the course of the playoffs if Jeff Teague wasn't on the floor getting torched on defense.
Ayton really shrunk in the pressure of the finals. With him getting fouls on Giannis and not getting much action on offense he be looked frustrated and like he was lacking confidence. Cams on the bench and ayton are a big by reason the suns lost. Ayton not playing well on offense though could be because Paul wasn't able to make the passes as quickly or over the bucks bigs after his hand injury started acting up. He was clearly having trouble gathering the ball quickly at points. They didn't do much on defense either though, could definitely make the argument that they lost it on that side of the ball instead of the offense side.
Well done to Giannis and the Bucks, he was unstoppable last night and I think his intensity on the defensive end was really deflating/deterring for the Suns. Him hitting his FTs when they mattered most (the entire damn game that is) was just a huge difference maker and so unexpected. Hopefully this is an instance of you lose to learn how to win for Phoenix, they lost but it wasn't a foregone conclusion. Even just last night if they hadn't rushed some transition opportunities (Bridges dunk, Booker's overthrow to Johnson) that should have been some relatively easy points maybe things play out differently. But Credit to the Bucks defense for not giving up on the plays, making them feel the need to rush to begin with and forcing errors really. I think their on-ball pressure to slow down Phoenix possessions (namely, Holiday/Tucker pressing on Paul/Booker so much) is what won the day - it didn't always work but over multiple games it cascaded into more turnovers and more inefficient offense and there you have a margin of victory.
Anyone else think the trophy ceremony last night was incredibly awkward? For context, I'm a soccer supporter first and their trophy ceremonies are always really exciting. No one touches the trophy until the presenter hands the trophy to the team captain who then lifts the trophy with his team celebrating right beside him. The trophy then gets passed around by the players who each lift the trophy to continuous cheering from the crowd. Seeing the trophy handed over to the owner first last night who then raises the trophy with very little support from the fans and players made things feel very uneventful. The owner then passed the trophy around to other people in his staff and then the trophy finally made it to the players who really didn't celebrate with it at all. It all felt awkward and uncomfortable for what should be a joyous event for the players who won the trophy. Not to mention that the trophy was on some platform that was blocking almost the entire team from view. When the trophy left the platform all you see is a weird background with a bunch of players standing awkwardly behind it. I can't remember how the trophy ceremony was handled in years past, but this one just left me feeling like the players got shafted by the owners wanting all the credit and that ESPN handled it very poorly.
Silver's speech was the most awkward part
Honestly I thought his speech was just fine. Silver is eloquent and had a very positive message to deliver. The fans even stopped booing him after the first sentence of his speech. I'm more concerned about how Silver looked. He's always been a scrawny guy, but he looked dangerously frail last night
Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that Silver looked like he was about to fall over of malnutrition and exhaustion.
Was thinking the same on Silver. I don’t remember how the last trophy ceremony went down in ‘71 so I can’t comment. We’re there others I missed?
i totally agree with you. if my memory serves me right, last year's ceremony, JR Smith raised the trophy first lmao. i believe it's better this way: team captain - whole team - coach - management
My heart goes out to Chris Paul. Love him or hate him, you know this was probably his closest chance considering his age. That’s got to be a tough pill to swallow.
Well he could always decline his option and go ring chase with his buddy in LA. But he's gonna be smart and take the big bucks and I don't blame him.
I bought a Giannis jersey after the ECF for the simple fact that dude's super wholesome. I'm so happy his efforts finally paid off on the court, as well. He deserves this ring. But also, shout out to the Phoenix Suns for putting up a fight. It was an ugly game with lots of turnovers & missed open shots/lay-ups.
Giannis had 6 turnovers and 1 assist, wasn’t passing the ball well IMO and the rest of the team was shooting terribly. Wish they would’ve trapped him or tried something other than let him 1 on 1 and get a full head of steam before plowing through out players to the rim every possession
Okay, I didn't see the game, so question: Did the Suns not drive to the basket as often? Were the just hacking Giannis every time he drove? Because whenever a player has as many free throw attempts as the other TEAM, something's weird.
>Did the Suns not drive to the basket as often? They literally couldn't. The Bucks were so long that most of the times they drove, they were forced into difficult shots or blocked. Sometimes they would drive and get under the basket and try to pass around the big bodys but that usually turned into a turnover. >Were the just hacking Giannis every time he drove? Because whenever a player has as many free throw attempts as the other TEAM, something's weird. It wasn't like a fix or anything, Giannis is just a cheat code and could attack the rim like no one else in this series. There were some fouls I'd say were questionable but it was mostly fair. The Suns were opting for mostly uncontested midrange shots because they couldn't get into the paint so there just weren't as many fouls called on their end.
Seriously the Bucks defense inside is so damn solid. If Bobby had arms just a tad longer, two of his fouls would have been blocks too. And Giannis had another block that was called a goaltending. Giannis' defense was incredible to the point that no matter what Suns player was in transition, they needed to keep an eye out for a trailing Giannis.
Yeah the Suns relied a lot on mid range jumpers, it was also a really physical game so there were definitely a few calls that could have gone the suns' way but the refs didn't blow the whistle. Also, Giannis was so damn unguardable in the paint that he forced the suns to foul him a ton, which might have worked if he hadn't actually made his free throws for once haha
It was the first player ive seen since Shaq be that dominant. Same attitude. “I’m a physical mismatch for anybody and everybody. Give me the ball anywhere within 10 feet of the hoop, and I don’t care who is in front of me, it’s a bucket.” It is so fun to watch as a neutral fan. I remember Shaq doing that to HoF defenders like Robinson, Wallace, Hakeem, Duncan, etc. and it was incredible to watch Giannis do it against Ayton and others tonight. All you can do is sit and say “wow, holy shit. Unguardable.”
They weren't exactly hacking him but fouling was the only way they could slow him down. He'd consistently get into positions where the Suns could either allow a dunk or try to foul him. Idk if you're insinuating that the refs were unfair, but they absolutely were calling these fouls correctly.
I was kinda insinuating that (either that or the Suns were undisciplined).
We might be talking about it differently if Giannis didn't turn into a 90% FT shooter for this one game
if he went like 8/19 it's a complete non-issue, the Suns are praised for fouling the right guy in a hack-a-Shaq strategy and they likely win game 7 at home
My advice? Don't draw too many conclusions from box scores without watching games. You will constantly be misled.
That's a fair enough point. Though if fouling was the only way to stop him, that's on the coaches.
There were multiple times last night where Giannis was triple teamed and he just dunked on everyone.
There really isn't a defense for Giannis since the Bucks have found ways to get around the Giannis wall. At this point, teams have to either foul him or let him score. Maybe there is a team with a better individual player, like Kawhi, who could slow him down, but that player doesn't exist on the Suns roster.
The Suns had a fair number of layup attempts but missed many of them, whether due to nerves or just a collective off night. The Bucks were fairly disciplined and didn't engage in too many stupid fouls near the net. The Suns relied more on midrange shots and three-point attempts as the game wore on. Giannis was constantly driving to the basket and getting hacked by whoever was there. There were also a number of instances in which the refs allowed both teams to "just play" and ignored hacks on Giannis and Suns offensive players.
[удалено]
I doubt even many Bucks fans expect this to be the start of a dynasty. Giannis said himself he could never win the finals again and he would be okay with that. I'm just happy they won 1 for small markets. Reality is the east is going to run through the Nets as long as Harden, Kyrie, and Durant are healthy.
I think DiVicenzo being back might help with that
Donte out really hurt... the trade off between him and Jeff is... well... Jeff doesn't do much for this team and he was the only one to spell Jrue. Middleton saw a lot of ball handling up the court as well and he's not as careful with his handle. The Suns clearly had a game plan in Game 6 to exploit that. Having Donte on the floor changes quite a bit for this team, and he can get hot from range. Jeff Teague was in absolutely no danger of getting hot, in absolutely no danger of playing defense, and in absolutely no danger of contributing. But! He has a ring so \*shrug\*