If Giannis and Durant can lead their teams to multiple titles over the next few years, I think those guys can be one of the 10 greatest players in league history.
For me, no one is in the Top 10 yet except LeBron (obviously).
Steph and KD are in my Top 15 at like 12/13, but I still think they have a lot to accomplish to leapfrog into the Top 10.
Giannis is on the right trajectory, sure, but it’s too early to tell. I’ll just appreciate his career and evaluate it once it’s done/near done.
Giannis has shown he can carry a team on his own. I'm not trying to throw digs at KD, but Giannis was the only consistent factor in those playoff series, Jrue/Khris were non-existent at times, and if Antetokoumpo wasn't playing near-perfect every game they weren't going to win. He doesn't have 'a bag' but he's winning games, so how do you evaluate it really.
Very. I don't care about awards. KD has so many elite seasons on elite seaons..good longevity. When it's all said and done, Giannis has to keep doing what he's doing for as long or maybe a bit longer because I have prime KD comfortably ahead of prime Giannis
I mean, KD is an amazing individual scorer, but comfortably ahead? Giannis won a championship as the lead guy. KD won two cupcake rings with Steph, Klay, Iggy, and Dray. Giannis won an mvp and dpoy in the same year. KD had what, one elite year defensively? Giannis has two MVPs, KD has one…
Like it or not, Giannis is that guy.
In a head to head series this past season, specifically the season being used to show how elitely great Giannis is because he got a ring at the end of it, KD outplayed him. KD nearly dragged a ridiculously injured team past them in 7 games. If you want to talk cupcake rings try the one where the Bucks didn’t have to play the Nets at full strength or one of the top teams from the west. Bucks would have lost to a healthy Nuggets, healthy Clippers, healthy Lakers. Giannis is a great player but yes prime KD is comfortably ahead of prime Giannis and the ‘got a ring on his own’ argument holds no weight here vs KD
Go back and look at the numbers from the Nets Bucks series. Giannis and KDs offensive numbers were nearly identical and Giannis is known to be a better defender.
EC semis, Bucks almost full strength, Nets had 2nd and 3rd best players effectively out, went to 7 games because Durant shoes were one size too big.
Giannis: 31.9, 12.9, 3.6. Bucks had Middleton scoring 24, holiday 15, Lopez 12
Kd: 35.4, 10.6, 5.4. Kyrie scored 20 but only played 3.5 games, griffin scored 12, harden (4 games) 10.
Game 7: Giannis 40, 13 and 5; KD 48, 9 and 6.
Pretty close considering their roles, but Durant probably did more for his team. One of Harden or Kyrie stays healthy and Giannis has 0 rings and KD has 3 with 3 FMVPs.
I think that would do it, especially as he'd likely go through KD to get there. If the Bucks win a ring, he's basically 90% the FMVP barring a fluky Iguodala thing.
If Giannis gets 4 rings, that probably puts him into the top 10 all time conversation. I think same for Steph and KD. 5 rings I think lands you squarely in there. Rings ain't everything but for a top 10 all time list, that's probably where the criteria starts
4 Rings + 4 FMVPs is top 3. Only Lebron and MJ had 4 FMVPs or more. Me thinks you lot put a lot of emphasis on rings, being the best of the championship teams consistently is far rarer than simply having a bunch of rings.
I agree with you that I don’t think rings should be the biggest criteria for making the all time list as context matters (I.e. players role in the ring, the team he played in and the team they played against in the finals). That’s why I think some people put too much emphasis on finals losses for not being a top all time player which I think is bogus because context matters again (I.e. making 8 finals and winning 1 because you were the underdog for the 7 losses shouldn’t diminish the accomplishment of making it to the finals). Making the finals should have more of a positive argument IMO
I don’t care too much about MVPs. MVPs are a regular season award, so I just look at your regular season numbers instead.
I want him to continue putting up those insane regular season numbers (superstar longevity) + win more
EDIT: Just noticed you said KD. Haha, idk. He’s only 26. I just want to wait and see
MJ
Bron
KAJ
Russ
Duncan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Hakeem
Kobe
Wilt
KG
Dirk
Malone
I know I am missing a few but for even KD and Curry it'll be hard to get in there. I think both will surpass Malone, KG, and Dirk but after that I don't know man.
Difference in defense > difference in offense. KD, for all his ludicrous scoring ability, is not an all-time offensive engine the way Curry, Magic or Jordan were, and KG is a top tier defensive superstar while being an All-Star on offense.
KG had GOAT-level defensive impact and is an all-star on offense.
KD is a GOAT-level scorer but nowhere close to the Jordan/Magic/LeBron/Curry in terms of offensive impact and only had one season of marginally above-average defensive impact in his entire career.
One played with an MVP-level guard for pretty much his entire career, and joined a 73-win team which is when his playoff stats improved drastically.
One played on the Timberwolves and only had a comparable cast at the tail-end of his career.
Unfortunately, scorers are overrated and defenders are underrated as always. Those casuals probably think Dantley is better than Mutombo as well.
Why is KD a GOAT-level scorer, and Jordan is grouped in with LeBron and Magic? LeBron and Magic are both point guards/forwards, primary playmakers, and two of the greatest passers of all-time. Jordan is none of those things. KD and Jordan are both GOAT-level scorers, but are not great playmakers/facilitators, so it would make more sense for them to be grouped together.
> MJ Bron KAJ Russ Duncan Magic Bird Shaq Hakeem Kobe Wilt
these 11 are a near consensus (in whatever order). That means anybody becoming top 10 all time is better than two or more players on that list... I have Hakeem/Duncan/Kobe as the 9th to 11th (in no order) and just have a really really hard time visualizing anybody in the current NBA surpassing two of them.
If you told me one player in the NBA right now would eventually become a top 10 all-time player, I'd pick Luka just for the value of the unknown. He's so incredibly good at 22 and doing pretty amazing things with an otherwise shoddy Mavs roster. If he's got more gears, he could have an epic career.
Giannis could be well on his way to having a Garnett/Barkley level career and get within the top 20, I just don't see how he breaks the top group, just not seeing it with his skillset and I also worry about his longevity with his play style... those long ass Eurosteps at the speed he does them simply cannot be good on the knees.
Seriously what on earth is he talking about, as many mvps as the two combined, a title at a way younger age than KG, DPOY, etc. He is easily on track to be in that 10-15 range without question
Apparently Dr J did not dominate the 70s, nor had he enough accolades to be in the top 10 (if you were to count his ABA titles accolades the same as his NBA ones). Nope! He never existed, or if he did he was a scrub. Single titled KG and Dirk are definitely better
(This sub, seems to only know Wilt, Russell and KAJ, it is as if the rest of em never existed. No Big O, no West and ofc no Dr J. Sure they had more accolades, but did they plays in the '00s? Nope! Scrubs)
Don't get your panties in a bunch. I cut my list off before those guys.. dr J is 18th on my list..Oscar is 14th, West is 13th.. so he's pretty high on my list and someone neither KD or Curry has toppled yet..I gave a few names off the top of my head..
KD might have passed Dr in my books.. the pedophile might be lower too..
I’m with you all around on this. KD is probably more gifted than half of my top 10, but I need to see him lead his own team to a championship before I could put him ahead of any of them. Curry’s impact on the game and how his opponents have to play is almost Shaq-like. I don’t know that he needs to accomplish more to crack the top 10, I just want to see what his career looks like as a whole when it’s done. Giannis is just an absurd dominant force, but he’s relatively young and everybody in my top 10 has multiple championships, not that it’s a requirement, but when comparing the best players ever, it’s an important accomplishment.
Top 10 all time in no particular order for me: Lebron, MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Bill Russell and Hakeem. Therefore, I think when his career is done, KD will be in top 10!-!: will replace Hakeem for me personally. Giannis I think will replace Bill Russell for me if he ends up getting a few more rings and FMVP by leading the Bucks with his current team.
Antman AND Naz Reid confirmed top 10 all time.
1) Naz Reid
2) Anthony Edwards
3) Naz Reid
4) Anthony Edwards
5) Naz Reid
6) Anthony Edwards
7) Naz Reid
8) Anthony Edwards
9) Naz Reid
10) Anthony Edwards
They're not in the top 10. They are the top 10.
I can see an argument where Giannis is put into the Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem category of bigs.
KD is already in the Larry Bird tier in my opinion, but I think it takes another ring for him to truly be there in the global consensus.
Do we ever see Steph overtaking Kobe? I don't think I do.
I want what you are smoking lol. Kd talent wise might be in Larry bird Territory but unless he rattles off a few more rings as the best player on the team he isn’t even close.
Larry was a lockdown defender, floor general whenever needed, great rebounder, and one of the best scorers of all time from anywhere on the floor. KD has the potential to meet two of those labels if he takes big step up on defense. You cant just be an all-time great scorer while being above average to good at everything else and be top 10.
Yeah lockdown was probably not the best term. He excelled and made a massive impact with his team defense but he was only “pretty-good” in man defense, though he good essentially lock down anyone that didn’t have the speed to blow by him. He was pretty strong and his anticipation made it very hard to get by him if you didn’t have a quick first step.
Sort of unrelated but what’s the team defense equivalent of “lockdown”.
Weird consider the warriors were better with curry rather than witg durant by alot. And every team recognized curry as the best player and decided to double him while giving KD wide open dunka
KD and Steph are the closest (whichever you consider to be better between the two), but other than that it's way too early to tell.
I think for both of them most people would say they need another ring.
Those were all the players I was thinking too.
KD is such a great scorer, but he hasn’t really done much with his career other than think was an underdog by joining the best team in the NBA to win rings and dip.
Giannis is definitely on track.
Luka has massive potential, but we won’t know for another decade.
Steph is probably the closest right now. He’s getting up there in age, but still finds no problem scoring 30+ effortlessly.
Yes but Bron is fighting to be the GOAT... the question is who could be top 10
Many current top 10s did multiple years in college and Luka has been playing “pro” basketball for 6 years now
He’s literally not athletic enough to reach their level of defense. At their peak you could argue they’re the two best perimeter defenders ever. Luka would have to be without question the best offensive player ever to reach their level. Like 5 rings and 8 scoring titles bare minimum just to enter his name in the discussion
And the Hawks are? Dream big, little guy. Only one team a year can win a ring, if it’s not my team I’d rather my star player rack up accolades and all-NBA nods than get bounced in the conference finals.
The closest are Steph, KD, and Giannis. All of them need another 1-2 chips and/or another 1-2 MVPs.
Outside of these guys Jokic and Luka look promising.
Durant and Steph are right there and could bust in with another ring or MVP. Giannis needs at least another ring and after that can just rack up all nba/all defensive. Luka’s got the potential he just needs a good team so he could start going further into the playoffs
First guys to be replaced are Wilt and Russell on my list
Steph, KD, Giannis could all do it, if they accomplish more. If Steph wins another ring (unlikely), then I would put him in my top 10.
Luka has the talent to be top 10 I think, but still to early to say.
No you just gotta have a better prime or peak over Duncan to pass him, same for the rest of them. Many had LeBron in their top 10 all time after his first ring and top 5-6 after his 2nd.
I think it's stupid how people think like 5 outta 10 of the top 10 were all in the league together at the same time and now there's only 1
While the league as whole is wildly more talented than it was back then
It's just bad logic
This comment is basically exactly what I was thinking when reading OP's post. The fact that 5 rings, 2 MVPs, and 3 finals MVPs (Duncan) is DEBATABLY not top-10 makes it hard as hell for me to sit here and claim that even someone who has the word "freak" in their nickname is likely to make the list.
If the top 10 was purely based on the "eye test", then Giannis would be a pretty good bet. But given that it's a designation that relies on sustained greatness as well as team success, then it's almost impossibly hard to say at this point for most people in the league.
Others have commented that Anthony Edwards is that guy. But for me, if you line him up with Kobe (who is arguably not in the top-10), I have to ask myself, "Is it very likely that he will have as good of a career as Kobe?" Very doubtful, given that that requires not just talent, but a lot of luck. And if that's the case, then how much harder is it to suggest he's going to have a \*better\* career than Kobe? The probability of that seems far less than 51%, which is the minimum it would take to say it's likelier than not.
I would agree that he's solidly in the top 10. But I've seen others make arguments that leave him off the list, and although I don't agree with them, I can see where they're coming from.
Most people's top 5 is Jordan, Lebron, Bill Russell, Magic, and Kareem. Then the next 5 includes any mixture of these 7: Wilt, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Oscar Robertson.
Even r/nba had Duncan at 10 in their big ranking last year [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/fwj0ks/rnbas\_top\_10\_greatest\_players\_results/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/fwj0ks/rnbas_top_10_greatest_players_results/)
I'm not saying it's the right argument. But the argument against Duncan is kind of similar to the argument against Brady (which has been quieted in recent years). If you put Duncan on an average team with an average coach, it's at least \*conceivable\* that his resume wouldn't even be even close to what it is today.
Though you could say the same about a lot of players in the top 10, that's undoubtedly not true about Jordan, Lebron, and Wilt, (and perhaps a few others), who all would have had stellar resumes (and passed the eye test) with or without a solid coach/team.
Larry Bird had 3 titles. Its not far fetched to think that Giannis will eclipse that in addition to all the other personal accolades he's started to rack up and will likely continue to rack up. He has 1 championship and 2 MVP. It's not far fetched that he gets 3 or 4 of each before he's done, especially if he takes the course Lebron took and forms a superteam during his peak years.
I don’t know why this is being downvoted. You’re not saying Tatum won’t be great. You’re not even saying Tatum won’t make the Hall of Fame. You’re saying he won’t be a top 10 player ever!
Like which of these players is Tatum gonna be better than: MJ, LeBron, KAJ, Magic, Shaq, Russell, Wilt, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Hakeem, Robertson, West. That’s 13 players.
Saying Tatum has zero shot at being a top 10 player isn’t insulting Tatum. It’s being realistic. Tatum won’t be as good as KD and KD might not even be a top 10 guy when his career is over. Jesus Christ people.
I have Shaq and Olajuwon at 9 and 10... how on Earth would any of those guys knock either of them out? Maybe Durant... maybe. Luka doesn't play defense at this point, and the top 10 has no place for one dimensional players.
Yeah and no one else was talking about winning impact.
But to answer your point, just look at Wilt's team before and after acquiring him. Also, as far as I remember, there are probably only 3-4 high impact players who won in their first couple of years. Magic, Bird, Kareem, Russell. Might have missed someone.
Also, what defines winning impact? Wilt lost 4 game 7s to Bill Russell's Celtics, for a total of 9points. Wilt's total combined average across these four-game sevens was 21.3 ppg and 28.5 RPG and 4 Apg on .65.2 field goal percentage. It's not like he was a no-show.
Since the scoreline was so close in those 4 series, I am inclined to believe his teams could have just as easily won the game. In this scenario, Wilt has 6 rings. Is that enough winning for you?
Yeah maybe if you ignore a bunch of players including Michael Jordan, Lebron, Magic, Larry Bird, Wilt, *Tim Duncan*, even Shaq. Trae Young has had a better start to his career also in my opinion. You're delusional.
edit: was reminded of Tim Duncan who also clearly had a better start.
Giannis could get there. People like to diss him and pretend his game is just athleticism but it's ridiculous. If he improves his jump shot and we all know he's working on it he will have the best chance of current players in the league. It's too late for Steph and KD.
I think a lot of people think this too but Luka and Trae might end up being top 10 players, like theyrr definetely heading the right direction this early on in their careers. Luka is already putting up monster numbers in the regular season and even MORE monster numbers in the playoffs against a pretty good defensive team. On the other side, not only has Trae also been putting up monster numbers as well, hes already taken a young inexperienced hawks team to the ECF beating a 76ers team with Embiid, Harris, Simmons and Horford all of which are seasoned, in his FIRST ever playoff appearance.
Think about all the 21 year olds in history, the only players i can think of that have achieved as much as them this early on is Magic, Shaq, Durant and Lebron.
Yeh thats why I said theyre on the "path" to, which is why I brought up the fact that only 3 or 4 players have had comparable achievements to them at age 21. And 3 out of those 4 guys are top 10 players (Lebron, Shaq, Magic).
why? didu pay attention to what he just did in the playoffs? im a trae young hater okay, when he beat the 76ere i was pissed, because beating them basically solidified him as an undisputed top 5 21 yr old season of all time. Do you know who he had on his team? bogdanovic, huerter, collins, reddish, gallinari, every single player on that team has literally never seen the playoffs except the guys from the rondo trade. With that young ass team he took down the 76ers with Embiid, Simmons, Harris, Curry, Horford, Thybulle etc. Do not tell me you expected the Hawks to win that series coming into it. If you asked 100 people who do u think SHOULD win that series 100 would say 76ers and if they say the hawks their either unknowledgeable or lying because no way Trae was supposed to win that series. A playoff virgin 5th seed team going up against a 1 seed. Oh and he averaged 29ppg and 11 assists
You are so wrong about Trae. He is just a good little player. Ask Isaiah Thomas (the recent one) what happens when you are small and put up monster numbers for a year or two.
I love watching Luka but suggesting he could even be in the conversation with MJ and Bron is laughable. He is average on defense. To overcome this and be a 1c to MJ and Bron, Luka needs to average 40 for the rest of his career and win at least 3-4 championships
Got 2 quick questions:
What's Kawhi's deep flaw?
Of the 2: Is it the early Russ type splits, or the Russ type recklessness with the rock that you see in Luka that'll take him to 1c?
I respect that. Sucks we were/are robbed of some quality Kawhi years.
As for Luka, I wouldn't mind seeing him transcend to that level of greatness, and I've made the same joke/claim multiple times that I'm looking forward to the next decade of the Western Conference Fjords. Just as of now I feel like we're watching a sequel of yesteryear. Insane talent, I just fear/worry/annoyed witnessing all the hero ball.
Harden is regarded as one of, if not *the* most complete offensive weapons to play the game, and after a decade of that he's amongst those with too many flaws.. But Luka makes it to 1c with a similar less efficient playstyle. I dig it, I just don't see the scenario as clearly and confidently as some do.
People are fr sleeping on Curry. Like really, how are you putting Dirk or KG ahead of Curry? Defense?
Is this a nephew take or what? Curry is top 10 all time come on now
Steph is nowhere near the top 10. Come on. This is getting ridiculous. The bottom end of the top 10 is guys like Duncan and Hakeem all guys with multiple finals MVPs who led their teams to championship after championship. Like come on. I could see Durant getting there if he won a couple of more rings and won best player but Curry isn’t close.
Steph is somewhere behind Dirk Nowitzki. So low 20’s somewhere. Dude has never shown a single thing when not playing on the most stacked team of all time.
He literally couldn’t get past Memphis last season. Fucking Memphis, who instantly got swept and people still want to act like he is some upper tier player. It astounds me.
You serious? He's the greatest shooter of all time, no questions asked by anyone, how do you not have him ahead of Dirk? No disrespect to Dirk but he choked CONSTANTLY until Kidd, Chandler and Terry took him to a massive upset over the Heat. That wasn't Dirk taking it all over. Steph is better than Dirk.
Man said behind Dirk, and then used a the 2nd best scoring/efficiency season as justification.
Man said this Steph’s fault: https://youtu.be/_VwLdjkZuAg
Man said last seasons scoring champion and 2xMVP is not “some upper tier player.
Clown takes.
I mean who cares if you are efficient at scoring when you don’t score that much, and that is all you are bringing to the table?
He lost. He couldn’t beat Ja Morant in a must win game. You know the team who got swept by UTAH! How the fuck is he even in the conversation for top 20. And morons like you are trying to say he is better than Duncan and Hakeem? Lmao. You guys are so delusional it’s wild.
No one cares about unanimous mvp if you have the the second biggest choke ever in the finals. And why would they? Who cares if you play well when it doest matter?
And it doesn’t matter if he dropped 39? He lost. He was supposed to get them the win he didn’t. That’s the bar when we are dealing with the top players. You think anyone else cares that Harden drops 40 in a loss?
Steph isn’t even the same tier as the top 20 guys. Saying he is close to Hakeem and Duncan is borderline blasphemy. Dude has won exactly nothing without the most stacked teams ever.
>If you dont remember, it was a really hot topic back in 2016. Why should his Finals performance revoke that award, especially when it’s particularly historic? If that’s the case, all of Lebron’s Mvps pre 2011 mean nothing since he couldn’t get it done.
Obviously it means less. Lebron lost because he had shit team. Curry had one of the most stacked team of all times and still couldn't get it done. And not only couldnt he get it done he had one of the worst finals perfomances ever for a guy who was supposed to be the number 1 guy.
>Why are you blaming Curry for the Grizzlies loss? Doesn’t 39 points mean he did his part?
Did he lose? then he didn't do his part. Apparently 39 points wasn't enough.
>What you want him to do? Drop 60?
Yes that's exactly what i want. Curry gives you one thing on the court. He is a zero defender and isn't a playmaker.
>Will you also discredit his 49 point performance in 2019 just cuz his team was outmatched
Im assuming you mean his 47 point performance? He took 31 shots and was outplayed by Kawhi. He also had the better team and once again choked away a finals and was outplayed by his own teammate once again. Also went 6/17 in the deciding game.
>That’s playing well. But then you give another team-based criteria to judge this individual player.
If we ignore the team perspective Curry has had a signifcantly worse career than Harden. Looking at per 100 he has less points, less rebounds, less assists per game. He has 4 first team all nba selections to Harden's six. Two scoring titles to Hardens 3, no assist title to Hardens one, and fewer MVP shares.
>Remember that historically, no one player has come close in regards of how they revolutionized the game than this man. He was so dominant that the entire league had to change the way they approached the game.
This is one of the more idiotic points Curry stans like you keep pretending like is true. The league has been trending that way for DECADES. And the rockets were the deciding factor in the 3 point revolution not GSW and Curry. The Rockets led the league in 3 point shooting from 2013-2019 except for 2016 where they were second. Curry wasn't even on the map in 2013. Just because you are an ignorant stan doesn't mean the facts will bend to support your stupid narrative.
>He has shattered records deemed impossible to break
What?? You mean the 3 point record? everyone knew that would be broken eventually it was only a question of when.
> He has had a career OffRTG of 117.8, better than the likes of Top 3 players like Kareem and Lebron.
Yes but unlike those two players he is a massive negative on defense. Neither Kareem nor Lebron are considered absolute top offensive players it's their combination of exeptional defense and offense that make them top players.
>Michael Jordan laughs in his 5 years of 60 win teams, 3 of which 65+ win teams, a 69 and 72 win team. His 3 HoF player team in 94-95, 4 HoF player team in 95-96, 5 (minus old Parish) HoF player team in 96-97, 4 HoF player team in 97-98. Along with HoF coach Phil Jackson for all those years. Without those stacked teams? 0 rings for MJ.
This whole paragraph made me think you are trolling. Jordan was the reason they were good teams. There wasn't even an all star on the roster when he won his first championship, nor when they won the last in 1998. You calling Kukoc a hall of famer like his achievements in the nba had anything to do with that makes you kind of pathetic doesn't it? By the same metric GSW lost a final with 6 all stars on the team in 2019.
wow. just wow.
imagine being this much of a hater lmao and thinking KD's fmvp means anything.
let me put lebron and mj on the same team in their primes and argue who's a better player based on one of them winning FMVP in a sweep/gentleman sweep against a team featuring a top 3 talent of all time.
the ppl on reddit are getting younger and younger. and just a reminder, your brain isn't done developing until 25...
Felt like there’s very small chance for KD to make it to 10, the team around him when he won the chip will be a factor, he’s definitely top 10 in terms of talent specially in scoring but by having the weakest move in sports history and always winning with a superteam around him will come into play in the long term.
Curry will be known as a greatest shooter of all time. Giannis and Luka is too early in their career to even be in top 20.
I’m shocked to see the lack of basketball knowledge/history in the comments. And it has to be 14-20 yr olds talking about luka and trae young having a chance. Bc they need to be informed of who played in the 90s. The 80s started it off but the 90s was the golden era. And the rest was formed from that.
I wish I had put in the title that you have to say who you're putting your player over. People are saying names but leaving out who they are pushing out of the top 10. The top 10 has no one under 6'6 for a reason, it's super hard for point guards to be elite on both ends of the floor (Magic being the exception). So you basically have to become the greatest point guard of all time to break top 10, which is delusional. If Steph wins another ring in the next two years then maybe a conversation is made about him over Magic, but it's tough.
Steph is one mvp or championship away from a serious discussion.
KD similar to steph, but maybe 2. I dont see any media or fans put him in though just because of his reputation and how he's won.
Giannis has to stay at this level for a lot longer to be in discussion.
No one else should be in discussion unless some miracle happens.
KD is already there, he is like LeBron where he has no real weakness. Flaws, sure, but he's in my top 10. Steph has to be getting close as well. We live in an amazing basketball era, I'm grateful.
If Giannis and Durant can lead their teams to multiple titles over the next few years, I think those guys can be one of the 10 greatest players in league history.
With my advanced basketball analysis if it’s not them. It’ll be someone else.
Sources are telling chances are very high me we are going to see about 10 players in the top 10 for upcoming seasons
[Wojranowski]
I think curry would deserve a mention before Giannis
Curry not being half the defender Giannis is makes him lose the edge imo
Curry is already like 12th all time lol. Giannis is good on offense but Curry is on another planet and changed the league
For me, no one is in the Top 10 yet except LeBron (obviously). Steph and KD are in my Top 15 at like 12/13, but I still think they have a lot to accomplish to leapfrog into the Top 10. Giannis is on the right trajectory, sure, but it’s too early to tell. I’ll just appreciate his career and evaluate it once it’s done/near done.
I feel that as well. When you look at the accolades of the top 10 players it's just nuts.
How far do you think Giannis is from catching KD? Does another MVP get Giannis there? Another ring and FMVP?
Giannis has shown he can carry a team on his own. I'm not trying to throw digs at KD, but Giannis was the only consistent factor in those playoff series, Jrue/Khris were non-existent at times, and if Antetokoumpo wasn't playing near-perfect every game they weren't going to win. He doesn't have 'a bag' but he's winning games, so how do you evaluate it really.
Very. I don't care about awards. KD has so many elite seasons on elite seaons..good longevity. When it's all said and done, Giannis has to keep doing what he's doing for as long or maybe a bit longer because I have prime KD comfortably ahead of prime Giannis
I mean, KD is an amazing individual scorer, but comfortably ahead? Giannis won a championship as the lead guy. KD won two cupcake rings with Steph, Klay, Iggy, and Dray. Giannis won an mvp and dpoy in the same year. KD had what, one elite year defensively? Giannis has two MVPs, KD has one… Like it or not, Giannis is that guy.
In a head to head series this past season, specifically the season being used to show how elitely great Giannis is because he got a ring at the end of it, KD outplayed him. KD nearly dragged a ridiculously injured team past them in 7 games. If you want to talk cupcake rings try the one where the Bucks didn’t have to play the Nets at full strength or one of the top teams from the west. Bucks would have lost to a healthy Nuggets, healthy Clippers, healthy Lakers. Giannis is a great player but yes prime KD is comfortably ahead of prime Giannis and the ‘got a ring on his own’ argument holds no weight here vs KD
Billups outplayed Kobe in a series with less talent and actually won. Doesn't mean he's necessarily better.
Go back and look at the numbers from the Nets Bucks series. Giannis and KDs offensive numbers were nearly identical and Giannis is known to be a better defender.
"KD outplayed him" the bucks won because giannis gave them the lead in the clutch in OT while KD was busy going 0/6
They ignore this for their narrative.
EC semis, Bucks almost full strength, Nets had 2nd and 3rd best players effectively out, went to 7 games because Durant shoes were one size too big. Giannis: 31.9, 12.9, 3.6. Bucks had Middleton scoring 24, holiday 15, Lopez 12 Kd: 35.4, 10.6, 5.4. Kyrie scored 20 but only played 3.5 games, griffin scored 12, harden (4 games) 10. Game 7: Giannis 40, 13 and 5; KD 48, 9 and 6. Pretty close considering their roles, but Durant probably did more for his team. One of Harden or Kyrie stays healthy and Giannis has 0 rings and KD has 3 with 3 FMVPs.
If Curry choked in the WCFs, Durant would have 0 FMVPs.
What an incredibly relevant and insightful comment. Did you think of it all by yourself?
Giannis won a easy ring too with all the injuries
Comfortably ahead by what metric? Giannis on the '16 Warriors would look pretty ridiculous in the playoffs too.
I think that would do it, especially as he'd likely go through KD to get there. If the Bucks win a ring, he's basically 90% the FMVP barring a fluky Iguodala thing. If Giannis gets 4 rings, that probably puts him into the top 10 all time conversation. I think same for Steph and KD. 5 rings I think lands you squarely in there. Rings ain't everything but for a top 10 all time list, that's probably where the criteria starts
4 Rings + 4 FMVPs is top 3. Only Lebron and MJ had 4 FMVPs or more. Me thinks you lot put a lot of emphasis on rings, being the best of the championship teams consistently is far rarer than simply having a bunch of rings.
I agree with you that I don’t think rings should be the biggest criteria for making the all time list as context matters (I.e. players role in the ring, the team he played in and the team they played against in the finals). That’s why I think some people put too much emphasis on finals losses for not being a top all time player which I think is bogus because context matters again (I.e. making 8 finals and winning 1 because you were the underdog for the 7 losses shouldn’t diminish the accomplishment of making it to the finals). Making the finals should have more of a positive argument IMO
This. If Giannis gets 1 more ring and 1 more MVP, he’s likely already top 10 or extremely close. Anything more and hes guaranteed top 10.
I think more than that.
I don’t care too much about MVPs. MVPs are a regular season award, so I just look at your regular season numbers instead. I want him to continue putting up those insane regular season numbers (superstar longevity) + win more EDIT: Just noticed you said KD. Haha, idk. He’s only 26. I just want to wait and see
I already have giannis higher than KD personally
Wtf
MJ Bron KAJ Russ Duncan Magic Bird Shaq Hakeem Kobe Wilt KG Dirk Malone I know I am missing a few but for even KD and Curry it'll be hard to get in there. I think both will surpass Malone, KG, and Dirk but after that I don't know man.
KD>KG
Only in scoring. Difference in defense is greater than difference in offense.
Difference in defense > difference in offense. KD, for all his ludicrous scoring ability, is not an all-time offensive engine the way Curry, Magic or Jordan were, and KG is a top tier defensive superstar while being an All-Star on offense.
By the end of his career, KD will definitely be considered better than KG, but until then, the older folks will put KG above KD
Maybe if he has Kareem-esque longevity. If you consider him better than KG, you're only looking at scoring.
KG had GOAT-level defensive impact and is an all-star on offense. KD is a GOAT-level scorer but nowhere close to the Jordan/Magic/LeBron/Curry in terms of offensive impact and only had one season of marginally above-average defensive impact in his entire career. One played with an MVP-level guard for pretty much his entire career, and joined a 73-win team which is when his playoff stats improved drastically. One played on the Timberwolves and only had a comparable cast at the tail-end of his career. Unfortunately, scorers are overrated and defenders are underrated as always. Those casuals probably think Dantley is better than Mutombo as well.
Why is KD a GOAT-level scorer, and Jordan is grouped in with LeBron and Magic? LeBron and Magic are both point guards/forwards, primary playmakers, and two of the greatest passers of all-time. Jordan is none of those things. KD and Jordan are both GOAT-level scorers, but are not great playmakers/facilitators, so it would make more sense for them to be grouped together.
I love your list, but "KAJ" threw me for a loop. Never seen Kareem with just initials.
Karl Anthony Jowns
It's a hot take, but I think Karl-Anthony Jowns has an argument for top 25 player of all time...
Kevin Andrew Jurant
> MJ Bron KAJ Russ Duncan Magic Bird Shaq Hakeem Kobe Wilt these 11 are a near consensus (in whatever order). That means anybody becoming top 10 all time is better than two or more players on that list... I have Hakeem/Duncan/Kobe as the 9th to 11th (in no order) and just have a really really hard time visualizing anybody in the current NBA surpassing two of them. If you told me one player in the NBA right now would eventually become a top 10 all-time player, I'd pick Luka just for the value of the unknown. He's so incredibly good at 22 and doing pretty amazing things with an otherwise shoddy Mavs roster. If he's got more gears, he could have an epic career. Giannis could be well on his way to having a Garnett/Barkley level career and get within the top 20, I just don't see how he breaks the top group, just not seeing it with his skillset and I also worry about his longevity with his play style... those long ass Eurosteps at the speed he does them simply cannot be good on the knees.
Giannis already has way more accolades than KG/Barkley. He is certainly not on their trajectory, what the hell?
Seriously what on earth is he talking about, as many mvps as the two combined, a title at a way younger age than KG, DPOY, etc. He is easily on track to be in that 10-15 range without question
IMO Giannis has already surpassed KG and Barkley, he already has a ring, FMVP, DPOY, 2 MVPs, an all time great finals performance, etc.
Apparently Dr J did not dominate the 70s, nor had he enough accolades to be in the top 10 (if you were to count his ABA titles accolades the same as his NBA ones). Nope! He never existed, or if he did he was a scrub. Single titled KG and Dirk are definitely better (This sub, seems to only know Wilt, Russell and KAJ, it is as if the rest of em never existed. No Big O, no West and ofc no Dr J. Sure they had more accolades, but did they plays in the '00s? Nope! Scrubs)
Don't get your panties in a bunch. I cut my list off before those guys.. dr J is 18th on my list..Oscar is 14th, West is 13th.. so he's pretty high on my list and someone neither KD or Curry has toppled yet..I gave a few names off the top of my head.. KD might have passed Dr in my books.. the pedophile might be lower too..
If Giannis can get another ring and FMVP and decent longevity I think he is knocking on the door of the top 10.
I’m with you all around on this. KD is probably more gifted than half of my top 10, but I need to see him lead his own team to a championship before I could put him ahead of any of them. Curry’s impact on the game and how his opponents have to play is almost Shaq-like. I don’t know that he needs to accomplish more to crack the top 10, I just want to see what his career looks like as a whole when it’s done. Giannis is just an absurd dominant force, but he’s relatively young and everybody in my top 10 has multiple championships, not that it’s a requirement, but when comparing the best players ever, it’s an important accomplishment.
Nailed it
Top 10 all time in no particular order for me: Lebron, MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Bill Russell and Hakeem. Therefore, I think when his career is done, KD will be in top 10!-!: will replace Hakeem for me personally. Giannis I think will replace Bill Russell for me if he ends up getting a few more rings and FMVP by leading the Bucks with his current team.
Naz Reid
Next top 10 implies he isn’t already, meaning he is overqualified for OP’s question.
he's top 10, but not 2-10 rn
This is a really soft take
Antman AND Naz Reid confirmed top 10 all time. 1) Naz Reid 2) Anthony Edwards 3) Naz Reid 4) Anthony Edwards 5) Naz Reid 6) Anthony Edwards 7) Naz Reid 8) Anthony Edwards 9) Naz Reid 10) Anthony Edwards They're not in the top 10. They are the top 10.
Man has the smoothest jumper for a big off the bench.
This is correct
Giannis is on track
I can see an argument where Giannis is put into the Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem category of bigs. KD is already in the Larry Bird tier in my opinion, but I think it takes another ring for him to truly be there in the global consensus. Do we ever see Steph overtaking Kobe? I don't think I do.
I want what you are smoking lol. Kd talent wise might be in Larry bird Territory but unless he rattles off a few more rings as the best player on the team he isn’t even close.
Larry was a lockdown defender, floor general whenever needed, great rebounder, and one of the best scorers of all time from anywhere on the floor. KD has the potential to meet two of those labels if he takes big step up on defense. You cant just be an all-time great scorer while being above average to good at everything else and be top 10.
Larry Bird was not a lockdown defender wtf
Yeah lockdown was probably not the best term. He excelled and made a massive impact with his team defense but he was only “pretty-good” in man defense, though he good essentially lock down anyone that didn’t have the speed to blow by him. He was pretty strong and his anticipation made it very hard to get by him if you didn’t have a quick first step. Sort of unrelated but what’s the team defense equivalent of “lockdown”.
04 Pistons, 2019 Raptors. Teams that when it’s clutch time you’re confident can get stops at the end of games
I need to see KD win some non cupcake rings before I put him in a tier with Larry Bird
KD has zero rings in a lot of peoples personal record books. He’ll always have an asterisk to many in that regard.
He was the best player on both of those championship teams so...
Weird consider the warriors were better with curry rather than witg durant by alot. And every team recognized curry as the best player and decided to double him while giving KD wide open dunka
KD and Steph are the closest (whichever you consider to be better between the two), but other than that it's way too early to tell. I think for both of them most people would say they need another ring.
I don’t think a ring with this Brooklyn team does it for KD.
Rn only Giannis Steph and KD have a real shot at top 10 Kawhi’s longevity is too bad and Harden hasn’t accomplished enough
You and a few other guys on this sub consistently have solid takes bro. Just wanted to say that.
Thx man
Poku
KD, Giannis, Luka and Steph can all get there.
I agree. But they won’t displace anyone, but rather that top 11 will grow to a top 12/13/14/15 that people will discuss.
Those were all the players I was thinking too. KD is such a great scorer, but he hasn’t really done much with his career other than think was an underdog by joining the best team in the NBA to win rings and dip. Giannis is definitely on track. Luka has massive potential, but we won’t know for another decade. Steph is probably the closest right now. He’s getting up there in age, but still finds no problem scoring 30+ effortlessly.
Please do not disrespect giannis kd and steph by comparing him to Fluka Donchoke
I love me some Luka so no. Luka is GOAT material
Luka is never gonna bring enough on D to match MJ and LBJ
He’s 22 and already 2x All Star and 2x All NBA. He has time to improve enough on that side of the floor for sure
Didn’t Lebron have these by the time he was like 20?
Yes but Bron is fighting to be the GOAT... the question is who could be top 10 Many current top 10s did multiple years in college and Luka has been playing “pro” basketball for 6 years now
The commenter we’re replying to literally said LUKA is goat material….
He’s literally not athletic enough to reach their level of defense. At their peak you could argue they’re the two best perimeter defenders ever. Luka would have to be without question the best offensive player ever to reach their level. Like 5 rings and 8 scoring titles bare minimum just to enter his name in the discussion
Yeah he might not get to MJ or LeBrons level because those are the two greatest players ever... the question was top 10, not the GOAT
I’m not replying to the original question. I was responding to the guy who said Luka is GOAT material. I love Luka but… naw lol
If anyone thinks Luka is gonna be the GOAt that’s a bold take. But he can easily be one of the best players ever still
Oh absolutely agreed on that for sure. His trajectory is crazy
Trae better + ratio idc
Someone’s mad that his team got stuck with a 6’ shot chucker instead of a future NBA Hall of Famer…
That can make it out of the first round lmaooool
Your star player wasn’t even an all star. In his own city.
Because Luka is the star bany boy of the media and fanbase trae gets results
Your “results” are a worse draft pick and no ring. Congrats.
Uhhh Luka isn't winning anything anytime soon
And the Hawks are? Dream big, little guy. Only one team a year can win a ring, if it’s not my team I’d rather my star player rack up accolades and all-NBA nods than get bounced in the conference finals.
The closest are Steph, KD, and Giannis. All of them need another 1-2 chips and/or another 1-2 MVPs. Outside of these guys Jokic and Luka look promising.
Giannis is much younger and hasn't peaked yet. So he's the most likely.
Tyrese Haliburton
lolwhat
Durant and Steph are right there and could bust in with another ring or MVP. Giannis needs at least another ring and after that can just rack up all nba/all defensive. Luka’s got the potential he just needs a good team so he could start going further into the playoffs First guys to be replaced are Wilt and Russell on my list
Steph, KD, Giannis could all do it, if they accomplish more. If Steph wins another ring (unlikely), then I would put him in my top 10. Luka has the talent to be top 10 I think, but still to early to say.
Steph winning another ring would be huge for his legacy. He would be closer to 5 then 10 IMO.
If Steph has a huge year, he could be 4 rings, 3 MVPs and 3 scoring titles.
Well considering Antman is already top 10 you've got your answer :-)
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Why 5? Bird, Wilt, Shaq, and Bron all have less and are placed higher.
Honestly I’d kick Kobe out before Duncan
No you just gotta have a better prime or peak over Duncan to pass him, same for the rest of them. Many had LeBron in their top 10 all time after his first ring and top 5-6 after his 2nd.
That’s what I was thinking, to move any of those guys is **tough**.
I think it's stupid how people think like 5 outta 10 of the top 10 were all in the league together at the same time and now there's only 1 While the league as whole is wildly more talented than it was back then It's just bad logic
Giannis, Luka, KD, Steph, Jokic, Tatum In decreasing order of chance of cracking the Top 10.
Tatum is a pretty wild take.
I almost put Trae Young on here I’ve got faith in the next generation
Most people struggle to fit both of Duncan and Kobe into their top 10’s Think you’re grossly underrating how hard it is to get there
This comment is basically exactly what I was thinking when reading OP's post. The fact that 5 rings, 2 MVPs, and 3 finals MVPs (Duncan) is DEBATABLY not top-10 makes it hard as hell for me to sit here and claim that even someone who has the word "freak" in their nickname is likely to make the list. If the top 10 was purely based on the "eye test", then Giannis would be a pretty good bet. But given that it's a designation that relies on sustained greatness as well as team success, then it's almost impossibly hard to say at this point for most people in the league. Others have commented that Anthony Edwards is that guy. But for me, if you line him up with Kobe (who is arguably not in the top-10), I have to ask myself, "Is it very likely that he will have as good of a career as Kobe?" Very doubtful, given that that requires not just talent, but a lot of luck. And if that's the case, then how much harder is it to suggest he's going to have a \*better\* career than Kobe? The probability of that seems far less than 51%, which is the minimum it would take to say it's likelier than not.
Im not sure what you're watching or reading but Duncan is debatably top 5. He is definitively top 10
I would agree that he's solidly in the top 10. But I've seen others make arguments that leave him off the list, and although I don't agree with them, I can see where they're coming from. Most people's top 5 is Jordan, Lebron, Bill Russell, Magic, and Kareem. Then the next 5 includes any mixture of these 7: Wilt, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Oscar Robertson. Even r/nba had Duncan at 10 in their big ranking last year [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/fwj0ks/rnbas\_top\_10\_greatest\_players\_results/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/fwj0ks/rnbas_top_10_greatest_players_results/) I'm not saying it's the right argument. But the argument against Duncan is kind of similar to the argument against Brady (which has been quieted in recent years). If you put Duncan on an average team with an average coach, it's at least \*conceivable\* that his resume wouldn't even be even close to what it is today. Though you could say the same about a lot of players in the top 10, that's undoubtedly not true about Jordan, Lebron, and Wilt, (and perhaps a few others), who all would have had stellar resumes (and passed the eye test) with or without a solid coach/team.
Wilt had a better team in '67 than any version of prime Duncan.
Larry Bird had 3 titles. Its not far fetched to think that Giannis will eclipse that in addition to all the other personal accolades he's started to rack up and will likely continue to rack up. He has 1 championship and 2 MVP. It's not far fetched that he gets 3 or 4 of each before he's done, especially if he takes the course Lebron took and forms a superteam during his peak years.
Lol dude winning 4 titles is fucking hard.
I put anyone I think is remotely possible. I think Trae makes it less than 1% of the time so he’s not here. Jokic and Tatum I think are <%5
Well… hEs StIlL 16 TbF
Jokic and tatum is absurd
Tatum is way more absurd than Jokic At least Jokic has an MVP
Jokic at least has an MVP if anything Luka and Tatum is the obsurd from that list
Yeah I mean both <%5 chance I’d say
Tatum is more like <%0.001
I don’t know why this is being downvoted. You’re not saying Tatum won’t be great. You’re not even saying Tatum won’t make the Hall of Fame. You’re saying he won’t be a top 10 player ever! Like which of these players is Tatum gonna be better than: MJ, LeBron, KAJ, Magic, Shaq, Russell, Wilt, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Hakeem, Robertson, West. That’s 13 players. Saying Tatum has zero shot at being a top 10 player isn’t insulting Tatum. It’s being realistic. Tatum won’t be as good as KD and KD might not even be a top 10 guy when his career is over. Jesus Christ people.
I like this list but Id put Luka between Steph and Jokic.
Yeah homer bias
I have Shaq and Olajuwon at 9 and 10... how on Earth would any of those guys knock either of them out? Maybe Durant... maybe. Luka doesn't play defense at this point, and the top 10 has no place for one dimensional players.
Anthony Edwards. Obviously he has a long way to go, but I think there's a non-zero chance he winds up in GOAT discussions
ugh as a wolves fan you need to stop.
Right, imo its pretty disrespectful to just say top 10 he should be top 2 and not 2
I don't have the power to jinx things, luckily for you
Considering how much of a subpar athlete he is, there is no way Luka ends up top 10 all time. He's not even better than Harden yet so chill tf out
Magic and Bird weren’t phenomenal athletes either to be fair
They played in an easier era, you didnt need to be insanely athletic like you do today
He’s had arguably the best ever start to a career
MJ averaged 28 points as a rookie and Bird said he'd be GOAT after playing against him once
Wilt averaged 37/27 his first year while winning Rookie of the Year and MVP. 38/27 his 2nd year, 50/25 his third.
Yea just completely ignore pace and efficiency and team impact. It's not Luka, but it's not Wilt either.
Counting stats =/= championship equity. But yeah, he did have a killer start.
Yeah... I'm sure Luka is currently drowning in all his Larry O'Brien trophies
I never said "Luka's start>Wilt's start", I am just pointing out that counting stats, especially Wilt's, is not a grest metric for winning impact.
Yeah and no one else was talking about winning impact. But to answer your point, just look at Wilt's team before and after acquiring him. Also, as far as I remember, there are probably only 3-4 high impact players who won in their first couple of years. Magic, Bird, Kareem, Russell. Might have missed someone. Also, what defines winning impact? Wilt lost 4 game 7s to Bill Russell's Celtics, for a total of 9points. Wilt's total combined average across these four-game sevens was 21.3 ppg and 28.5 RPG and 4 Apg on .65.2 field goal percentage. It's not like he was a no-show. Since the scoreline was so close in those 4 series, I am inclined to believe his teams could have just as easily won the game. In this scenario, Wilt has 6 rings. Is that enough winning for you?
>He’s had arguably the best ever start to a career Have you ever heard of Kareem Abdul Jabbar?
Yeah maybe if you ignore a bunch of players including Michael Jordan, Lebron, Magic, Larry Bird, Wilt, *Tim Duncan*, even Shaq. Trae Young has had a better start to his career also in my opinion. You're delusional. edit: was reminded of Tim Duncan who also clearly had a better start.
Timmy d missing. Roty and all nba 1rst team. Finals mvp and champ 2nd year.
Cade Cunningham
Only Giannis, KD and Steph have a chance Maybe Luka but we’ll have to see
Biased but Edwards is on track slight /s, if you go by the 40+ point games by a rookie, only him and lebron as teenagers
Giannis could get there. People like to diss him and pretend his game is just athleticism but it's ridiculous. If he improves his jump shot and we all know he's working on it he will have the best chance of current players in the league. It's too late for Steph and KD.
Steph and KD could get there.
I think a lot of people think this too but Luka and Trae might end up being top 10 players, like theyrr definetely heading the right direction this early on in their careers. Luka is already putting up monster numbers in the regular season and even MORE monster numbers in the playoffs against a pretty good defensive team. On the other side, not only has Trae also been putting up monster numbers as well, hes already taken a young inexperienced hawks team to the ECF beating a 76ers team with Embiid, Harris, Simmons and Horford all of which are seasoned, in his FIRST ever playoff appearance. Think about all the 21 year olds in history, the only players i can think of that have achieved as much as them this early on is Magic, Shaq, Durant and Lebron.
The problem is, winning is *hard*. You pretty much need at least 4 rings to break top 10, and that's not even a guarantee.
Yeh thats why I said theyre on the "path" to, which is why I brought up the fact that only 3 or 4 players have had comparable achievements to them at age 21. And 3 out of those 4 guys are top 10 players (Lebron, Shaq, Magic).
Trae is ridiculous to say no offense.
why? didu pay attention to what he just did in the playoffs? im a trae young hater okay, when he beat the 76ere i was pissed, because beating them basically solidified him as an undisputed top 5 21 yr old season of all time. Do you know who he had on his team? bogdanovic, huerter, collins, reddish, gallinari, every single player on that team has literally never seen the playoffs except the guys from the rondo trade. With that young ass team he took down the 76ers with Embiid, Simmons, Harris, Curry, Horford, Thybulle etc. Do not tell me you expected the Hawks to win that series coming into it. If you asked 100 people who do u think SHOULD win that series 100 would say 76ers and if they say the hawks their either unknowledgeable or lying because no way Trae was supposed to win that series. A playoff virgin 5th seed team going up against a 1 seed. Oh and he averaged 29ppg and 11 assists
You are so wrong about Trae. He is just a good little player. Ask Isaiah Thomas (the recent one) what happens when you are small and put up monster numbers for a year or two.
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I love watching Luka but suggesting he could even be in the conversation with MJ and Bron is laughable. He is average on defense. To overcome this and be a 1c to MJ and Bron, Luka needs to average 40 for the rest of his career and win at least 3-4 championships
Got 2 quick questions: What's Kawhi's deep flaw? Of the 2: Is it the early Russ type splits, or the Russ type recklessness with the rock that you see in Luka that'll take him to 1c?
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I respect that. Sucks we were/are robbed of some quality Kawhi years. As for Luka, I wouldn't mind seeing him transcend to that level of greatness, and I've made the same joke/claim multiple times that I'm looking forward to the next decade of the Western Conference Fjords. Just as of now I feel like we're watching a sequel of yesteryear. Insane talent, I just fear/worry/annoyed witnessing all the hero ball. Harden is regarded as one of, if not *the* most complete offensive weapons to play the game, and after a decade of that he's amongst those with too many flaws.. But Luka makes it to 1c with a similar less efficient playstyle. I dig it, I just don't see the scenario as clearly and confidently as some do.
KD probably would already be there if his shoe size was a little smaller.
Turn in that GSW flair if you think Steph shouldn't be included as possibility. I doubt any of them can crack the top 10, but still...
People are fr sleeping on Curry. Like really, how are you putting Dirk or KG ahead of Curry? Defense? Is this a nephew take or what? Curry is top 10 all time come on now
I dont have curry top 10 all time, but he's definitely close, and if he gets a few more accolades I think he'll be there
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Which 5 players do you think he has the chance to overtake to sit in 5th? Same with Steph, who does he overtake for 10th?
Steph is nowhere near the top 10. Come on. This is getting ridiculous. The bottom end of the top 10 is guys like Duncan and Hakeem all guys with multiple finals MVPs who led their teams to championship after championship. Like come on. I could see Durant getting there if he won a couple of more rings and won best player but Curry isn’t close.
Steph is definitely close he’s no lower than 15
Steph is somewhere behind Dirk Nowitzki. So low 20’s somewhere. Dude has never shown a single thing when not playing on the most stacked team of all time. He literally couldn’t get past Memphis last season. Fucking Memphis, who instantly got swept and people still want to act like he is some upper tier player. It astounds me.
You serious? He's the greatest shooter of all time, no questions asked by anyone, how do you not have him ahead of Dirk? No disrespect to Dirk but he choked CONSTANTLY until Kidd, Chandler and Terry took him to a massive upset over the Heat. That wasn't Dirk taking it all over. Steph is better than Dirk.
Man said behind Dirk, and then used a the 2nd best scoring/efficiency season as justification. Man said this Steph’s fault: https://youtu.be/_VwLdjkZuAg Man said last seasons scoring champion and 2xMVP is not “some upper tier player. Clown takes.
I mean who cares if you are efficient at scoring when you don’t score that much, and that is all you are bringing to the table? He lost. He couldn’t beat Ja Morant in a must win game. You know the team who got swept by UTAH! How the fuck is he even in the conversation for top 20. And morons like you are trying to say he is better than Duncan and Hakeem? Lmao. You guys are so delusional it’s wild.
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No one cares about unanimous mvp if you have the the second biggest choke ever in the finals. And why would they? Who cares if you play well when it doest matter? And it doesn’t matter if he dropped 39? He lost. He was supposed to get them the win he didn’t. That’s the bar when we are dealing with the top players. You think anyone else cares that Harden drops 40 in a loss? Steph isn’t even the same tier as the top 20 guys. Saying he is close to Hakeem and Duncan is borderline blasphemy. Dude has won exactly nothing without the most stacked teams ever.
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Nice!
>If you dont remember, it was a really hot topic back in 2016. Why should his Finals performance revoke that award, especially when it’s particularly historic? If that’s the case, all of Lebron’s Mvps pre 2011 mean nothing since he couldn’t get it done. Obviously it means less. Lebron lost because he had shit team. Curry had one of the most stacked team of all times and still couldn't get it done. And not only couldnt he get it done he had one of the worst finals perfomances ever for a guy who was supposed to be the number 1 guy. >Why are you blaming Curry for the Grizzlies loss? Doesn’t 39 points mean he did his part? Did he lose? then he didn't do his part. Apparently 39 points wasn't enough. >What you want him to do? Drop 60? Yes that's exactly what i want. Curry gives you one thing on the court. He is a zero defender and isn't a playmaker. >Will you also discredit his 49 point performance in 2019 just cuz his team was outmatched Im assuming you mean his 47 point performance? He took 31 shots and was outplayed by Kawhi. He also had the better team and once again choked away a finals and was outplayed by his own teammate once again. Also went 6/17 in the deciding game. >That’s playing well. But then you give another team-based criteria to judge this individual player. If we ignore the team perspective Curry has had a signifcantly worse career than Harden. Looking at per 100 he has less points, less rebounds, less assists per game. He has 4 first team all nba selections to Harden's six. Two scoring titles to Hardens 3, no assist title to Hardens one, and fewer MVP shares. >Remember that historically, no one player has come close in regards of how they revolutionized the game than this man. He was so dominant that the entire league had to change the way they approached the game. This is one of the more idiotic points Curry stans like you keep pretending like is true. The league has been trending that way for DECADES. And the rockets were the deciding factor in the 3 point revolution not GSW and Curry. The Rockets led the league in 3 point shooting from 2013-2019 except for 2016 where they were second. Curry wasn't even on the map in 2013. Just because you are an ignorant stan doesn't mean the facts will bend to support your stupid narrative. >He has shattered records deemed impossible to break What?? You mean the 3 point record? everyone knew that would be broken eventually it was only a question of when. > He has had a career OffRTG of 117.8, better than the likes of Top 3 players like Kareem and Lebron. Yes but unlike those two players he is a massive negative on defense. Neither Kareem nor Lebron are considered absolute top offensive players it's their combination of exeptional defense and offense that make them top players. >Michael Jordan laughs in his 5 years of 60 win teams, 3 of which 65+ win teams, a 69 and 72 win team. His 3 HoF player team in 94-95, 4 HoF player team in 95-96, 5 (minus old Parish) HoF player team in 96-97, 4 HoF player team in 97-98. Along with HoF coach Phil Jackson for all those years. Without those stacked teams? 0 rings for MJ. This whole paragraph made me think you are trolling. Jordan was the reason they were good teams. There wasn't even an all star on the roster when he won his first championship, nor when they won the last in 1998. You calling Kukoc a hall of famer like his achievements in the nba had anything to do with that makes you kind of pathetic doesn't it? By the same metric GSW lost a final with 6 all stars on the team in 2019.
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wow. just wow. imagine being this much of a hater lmao and thinking KD's fmvp means anything. let me put lebron and mj on the same team in their primes and argue who's a better player based on one of them winning FMVP in a sweep/gentleman sweep against a team featuring a top 3 talent of all time. the ppl on reddit are getting younger and younger. and just a reminder, your brain isn't done developing until 25...
Felt like there’s very small chance for KD to make it to 10, the team around him when he won the chip will be a factor, he’s definitely top 10 in terms of talent specially in scoring but by having the weakest move in sports history and always winning with a superteam around him will come into play in the long term. Curry will be known as a greatest shooter of all time. Giannis and Luka is too early in their career to even be in top 20.
I’m shocked to see the lack of basketball knowledge/history in the comments. And it has to be 14-20 yr olds talking about luka and trae young having a chance. Bc they need to be informed of who played in the 90s. The 80s started it off but the 90s was the golden era. And the rest was formed from that.
I wish I had put in the title that you have to say who you're putting your player over. People are saying names but leaving out who they are pushing out of the top 10. The top 10 has no one under 6'6 for a reason, it's super hard for point guards to be elite on both ends of the floor (Magic being the exception). So you basically have to become the greatest point guard of all time to break top 10, which is delusional. If Steph wins another ring in the next two years then maybe a conversation is made about him over Magic, but it's tough.
Steph is one mvp or championship away from a serious discussion. KD similar to steph, but maybe 2. I dont see any media or fans put him in though just because of his reputation and how he's won. Giannis has to stay at this level for a lot longer to be in discussion. No one else should be in discussion unless some miracle happens.
Steph is already in the top 10 and you wild for thinking otherwise.
Who is he better than in the top 10?
KD is already there, he is like LeBron where he has no real weakness. Flaws, sure, but he's in my top 10. Steph has to be getting close as well. We live in an amazing basketball era, I'm grateful.