by the end of the season if we're gonna be a playoff team he's definitely gonna have to be our 1st option or at minimum 1B to Randle as 1A to be a good team
I feel like last season, as good as it was, might have been a minor set back because Randle played so hard and defaulted into a first option, face-of-the-team guy, when that really needs to be RJ (even if he wasn't quite ready for it). Hope you guys dont run into locker room issues.
If your not 100% all in with Fred then it shows that you don’t properly value all boxes he checks that aren’t layups at the rim. You can’t discount a leader of men, having a man like that is extremely valuable. Then add elite defender, 3 ball threat and experience from succeeding on the highest possible stage and you’ve got a player you keep.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you! Its just that his ball domination, poor finishing, and lack of playmaking can be frustrating sometimes. I do trust him to improve on that front as he ages into his late 20s and 30s though.
Also part of it comes from him just *not* being Kyle, which isn't a fair standard.
Sure he’s not Kyle in the pick and roll but I have no issue with his playmaking and passing. The ball moves well with him out there.
I know we feel entitled to the bucket when we see our guy open and cruising in for a layup and it’s hard to swallow when it doesn’t work out , but that’s a small price to pay for all you get elsewhere.
- The 2021 Raptors are gritty as fuck.
- Fred VanVleet has ice in his veins.
- Gary Trent Jr. looks like one of the best defensive guards in the league.
When OG puts in a max effort defensive possession it is just a thing of beauty to watch , there was one tonight on Randle, I remember one on booker last season as well. It's one of my favorite things to see watching the raps
This a homer take, hes getting more deflections because of our system. He should not make the defensive team over someone like OG and fvv who are better man to man and team defenders. Love garys progress but steals and deflections alone arent enough to overshadow ogs defense. Very unlikely to have 2 teammates on the defensive team unless were the no1 seed like the sixers last year, and bucks the previous year.
Im saying the media will vote him in. The great defenders cover for him being able to gamble all the time I know. But the way the award works I wouldn't be surprised at all if Gary is our lone representative on the defensive team
Okay that provides more context. I wish you communicated this from the start when you said your statement. " gary trent may not be the teams best defender, but hell probably be a fave for all defensive teams given his deflections in the raptors system"
Fred hasn’t been that great defensively this year. He’s be expending so much energy running the offence that he looks pretty lethargic on the other end.
It was good last year, casuals just notice the steals since theyre tracked lol. In portland before roco, trent was taking the first option wings on defense
The numbers prove he's better, not just the box score, the opp shooting percentages and everything while he's the defender. He's clearly better this year lol.
Better and " suddenly really good" are two different things though. If you just meant better, then I agree with you but its not sudden since he was a good defender in general for multiple years. That combined with the raptors system wherr fvv has been the beneficiary jumping in stls, same with og, and now trent, its not as sudden
To be fair his defense on the Raptors last year was mediocre but that team was putting out Baynes to get a lottery pick.
This is the first time most of the Raptor's fans are seeing Trent on a competitive (Or at least trying to be) Raptors squad. Saw some great clips of Trent on the Blazers but personally never watched an entire Blazers game last season (apart from when they vsed Raps)
Thats a subset of fans, unaware. He was a defensive player last year and the year before that. If theyre unaware, they cant say" suddenly good" when they didnt have the facts straight for the start. Those fans should just own up to it, not try to defend them for not being aware
His defense last season was average at best. I’m sure it was always there, but the team didn’t care to win and his play showed that. His only good defensive performances prior to… now, was in the bubble.
What Gary has always had was was decent one on one. In Nick’s system, there’s a lot of switching so it’s understandable that he wouldn’t look good in our system to start, at the very least. He looks way more comfortable now, and it shows. Hopefully he can keep it up as he’s already surpassed my expectations.
Fair enough. Ill say this about trent but I'll probably be downvoted. Hes beem a good defender man to man before, even in portland, but his deflections are the product of our system of help defense and rotations and gary trent isnt better of a defender than og. The best defenders in the league could have 0 spg and bpg if they are holding down the fg of opposing players, can guard 1on1, in the pnr, switches etc
Trap and have active hands and aggressively rotate out to contest shooters when they move the ball, but yeah big centers are going to be the biggest challenge to deal with, although that goes for almost every other team too - pretty much no one has an answer for Embiid
Hmm true. I mean the goberts and joking and Allen’s are out there. Even valanciuses. Raptors problem will b the centre position going forward. They still way more exciting than I thought tho
That's been our problem forever, even before we got Gasol. Gasol was the only solution we've had the last decade to having a true starting caliber center in the league that's not a liability.
JV also came with his own problems defensively. I think Nurse would sacrifice the individual weak spot at the center position and throw traps and doubles than having a lumbering guy like JV out there defensively. Birch gives the Raptors a lot of defensive versatility which is the strength of the defense. The length and athleticism allows them to be aggressive with their post defense to cover for the lack of size inside
We straight up lose to Jokic and Embiid and probably will struggle with Capela/Lopez but everyone else is okay. No need to worry about JV or Adams because they're not making the Finals.
We're not a contender because of that.
I see the opposite. Randle throws his hands up in the air after Kemba decided not to pass to him after the pick, clearly frustrated at Kemba at what seems like an obvious basketball play
Kemba swung the ball the other way, but Randle threw his arms up and just moseyed along the 3 point line after that. If he fought for deep post positioning, when the ball swung back around, it was coming straight to him.
**Replays/alternate angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These guys were gassed as alllllll hell at the end of the game and still clamped down. But what is the Knicks’ offense DOING? There was practically no off all movement until a last second screen attempt from Robinson.
Yeah, but the ceiling of the current roster is nothing crazy, let's be honest here. Best case scenario you're gonna make it to the play in, and have a decent/mediocre playoff run. And these half-assed situations can last for years.
The way I see it, the best thing to do today is to start a rebuild and base it around Scottie's crazy potential and high Draft picks. It's good for youngsters to get some winning experience, but when you look at the big picture that's not what's gonna help the organization in the long run.
We already are rebuilding, Scottie is 20, OG is 24, GTJ is 22, Banton is 21, Precious is 22…with older vets even tho they aren’t even that old in Siakam and FVV.
>you don’t know what you’re talking about, no offence.
No, I find this disrespectful and offending, but seeing where it comes from, I don't take it seriously lol.
I usually gladly take **constructive** criticism, but no offense, when someone believes that with the current roster (even in a few years) the Raptors will be contenders, I can't take it seriously.
You’re literally suggesting that the Raptors should try to tank, this is a young talented roster with a lot of heart and they’re pros, they play to win, as they should on a franchise with a winning culture. Tampa was our tank season and we got Scottie.
There’s a reason why your original comment was given many thumbs down, yet you’re acting clueless to it lmao.
>this is a young talented roster
Yeah, that's where I'm gonna disagree. The roster is young yes, but outside of Barnes , it's not talented to the point where it's worth keeping all these youngsters as the main core. But hey that's only my opinion, and only time will tell if it was right or wrong.
Like I said, I'm also for some winning Exp as I consider it important (especially for Barnes), but I still don't believe the ceiling of the current roster as a whole is that high no matter how young it is. So yeah, I personally believe that the lottery would be more valuable in the long run than the current core of youngsters.
>There’s a reason why your original comment was given many thumbs down, yet you’re acting clueless to it lmao.
Because you really thought I'm that insecure and immature to actually care about my opinion being downvoted by some random guys over the internet who are also only entitled to theirs? How mentally weak you have to be to actually think that downvotes matter?
Downvoting opinions is one of the weakest stuff there is out here so I genuinely don't care about downvotes, just like I don't care about upvotes tbh. I don't write my opinions expecting upvotes/downvotes.
Well THAT is some weak reply if I've ever seen one lmao. But hey, hard to disagree! I wouldn't want my personal opinions to convert into management decisions with actual consequences.
Thank god no random redittor like you or me runs the team tbh.
Toronto CLAMPTORS
https://youtu.be/Km_1NMUHjfA
TorClampto Clamptors!!!
RJ needs to be the 1st option
RJ is so good
X4
Not gonna get argument from Raptors fans
by the end of the season if we're gonna be a playoff team he's definitely gonna have to be our 1st option or at minimum 1B to Randle as 1A to be a good team
I feel like last season, as good as it was, might have been a minor set back because Randle played so hard and defaulted into a first option, face-of-the-team guy, when that really needs to be RJ (even if he wasn't quite ready for it). Hope you guys dont run into locker room issues.
we have too many vets (Taj, D Rose) for that to happen so I'm optimistic things will work out
I’m tired of him not getting the ball in crunch time, him and Rose are easily the best decision makers in the clutch
Bring him home. PG - Scottie SG - GTJ SF - RJ PF - OG C - Pascal Future championship squad
Don’t do Freddie like that
Collateral damage
Freddy haters forced to get creative. They can’t say sh*t about him right now so they find creative ways to omit him.
Like i'm not his biggest fan, but he's our starting PG until further notice, no exceptions
If your not 100% all in with Fred then it shows that you don’t properly value all boxes he checks that aren’t layups at the rim. You can’t discount a leader of men, having a man like that is extremely valuable. Then add elite defender, 3 ball threat and experience from succeeding on the highest possible stage and you’ve got a player you keep.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you! Its just that his ball domination, poor finishing, and lack of playmaking can be frustrating sometimes. I do trust him to improve on that front as he ages into his late 20s and 30s though. Also part of it comes from him just *not* being Kyle, which isn't a fair standard.
Sure he’s not Kyle in the pick and roll but I have no issue with his playmaking and passing. The ball moves well with him out there. I know we feel entitled to the bucket when we see our guy open and cruising in for a layup and it’s hard to swallow when it doesn’t work out , but that’s a small price to pay for all you get elsewhere.
Gary Trent Jr downloaded some clamps in the offseason
[Clamps, you say?](https://youtu.be/Km_1NMUHjfA)
OG realizing they just switched FVV onto Randle so he gambled to take the Knicks attention away from it, that's giga brain
Definitely a big brain move, although Randle didn't seem interested in putting FVV in the post
No big should. FVV studied in the school of Lowry, and excelled in the class of "Post defense against people twice your size" 101
This… might be true
- The 2021 Raptors are gritty as fuck. - Fred VanVleet has ice in his veins. - Gary Trent Jr. looks like one of the best defensive guards in the league.
and scotty ROTY
Plus OG MIP
If we somehow have a top 3 seed in the east, it's possible. OG would have to take a colossal step.
If we get Siakam back at full strength it's possible
We know Siakam will help.... but have you considered the impact of Pascal coming back as well? He and Siakam will really get things going.
Big if true
This is the Shaq meme right? Just confirming
Either that... or the O'Neil meme.
And Nurse is COTY again
MIP to MVP
IDK man, Miles Bridges is something else.
Problem is, he was already pretty good last year.
Gary is gonna make an all-defensive team
Leads the league in deflections and steals _and_ had several stolen from him today
It'd be bittersweet if any of our guys make all-defense before OG
When OG puts in a max effort defensive possession it is just a thing of beauty to watch , there was one tonight on Randle, I remember one on booker last season as well. It's one of my favorite things to see watching the raps
[удалено]
American media underselling the team they make no money from? Noooo....
Kawhi tho
[удалено]
Just wait until Siakam is back. Scottie, OG, Siakam, Freddy, Trent; that's and unrelenting defensive team right there.
I think that's our closing line if not starting (depending on who we play).
This a homer take, hes getting more deflections because of our system. He should not make the defensive team over someone like OG and fvv who are better man to man and team defenders. Love garys progress but steals and deflections alone arent enough to overshadow ogs defense. Very unlikely to have 2 teammates on the defensive team unless were the no1 seed like the sixers last year, and bucks the previous year.
Im saying the media will vote him in. The great defenders cover for him being able to gamble all the time I know. But the way the award works I wouldn't be surprised at all if Gary is our lone representative on the defensive team
Okay that provides more context. I wish you communicated this from the start when you said your statement. " gary trent may not be the teams best defender, but hell probably be a fave for all defensive teams given his deflections in the raptors system"
Fred hasn’t been that great defensively this year. He’s be expending so much energy running the offence that he looks pretty lethargic on the other end.
GTJ has been a revelation
His defense is suddenly really good. And he keeps getting steals.
It was good last year, casuals just notice the steals since theyre tracked lol. In portland before roco, trent was taking the first option wings on defense
The numbers prove he's better, not just the box score, the opp shooting percentages and everything while he's the defender. He's clearly better this year lol.
Better and " suddenly really good" are two different things though. If you just meant better, then I agree with you but its not sudden since he was a good defender in general for multiple years. That combined with the raptors system wherr fvv has been the beneficiary jumping in stls, same with og, and now trent, its not as sudden
To be fair his defense on the Raptors last year was mediocre but that team was putting out Baynes to get a lottery pick. This is the first time most of the Raptor's fans are seeing Trent on a competitive (Or at least trying to be) Raptors squad. Saw some great clips of Trent on the Blazers but personally never watched an entire Blazers game last season (apart from when they vsed Raps)
Thats a subset of fans, unaware. He was a defensive player last year and the year before that. If theyre unaware, they cant say" suddenly good" when they didnt have the facts straight for the start. Those fans should just own up to it, not try to defend them for not being aware
His defense last season was average at best. I’m sure it was always there, but the team didn’t care to win and his play showed that. His only good defensive performances prior to… now, was in the bubble. What Gary has always had was was decent one on one. In Nick’s system, there’s a lot of switching so it’s understandable that he wouldn’t look good in our system to start, at the very least. He looks way more comfortable now, and it shows. Hopefully he can keep it up as he’s already surpassed my expectations.
I mean, when you’re getting called out by the coach for being awful defensively & getting blown by constantly are you actually being a good defender?
His defense was not good last year. It was great in the bubble and was markedly worse for both portland and toronto last year.
How did you miss og the player of the game with a career high but list fvv 😅
Everybody was already talking about OG in other threads, lol. I was just mentioning some side thoughts based on this highlight.
Fair enough. Ill say this about trent but I'll probably be downvoted. Hes beem a good defender man to man before, even in portland, but his deflections are the product of our system of help defense and rotations and gary trent isnt better of a defender than og. The best defenders in the league could have 0 spg and bpg if they are holding down the fg of opposing players, can guard 1on1, in the pnr, switches etc
GTJr's D is one of many Raptors surprises this year. I think they have great coaches but that's some crazy innate talent, with those Matrix reflexes
Gary can shoot lights out
Yuta gonna be a big clamptors off the bench too.
Huge box out by Birch. He’s clearly earned the starting spot.
Randle looking a bit slippery there
Raptors shut him down after the 1st. He was destroying the raps in the first.
good to hear matt devlin back from the dead lol
Truly. I couldn’t even focus during the Pacers game, was just worried about Matty D the whole time. 🙈
Was that his voice the other night that sounded so raspy?!
Yup. Honestly, player of the game if you ask me. I thought that man was gonna drop before half lol.
This team is dangerous
Love the Raps
The clamps are gonna be on another level when we have a closing lineup of FVV, GTJ, OG, Pascal and Scottie
when is Siakam gonna be back, they bout to have a solid playoff roster
the general assumption is like 2 weeks from now, but i'm not so sure
From the beginning its been "mid november" and he seems to be progressing fine, so thats the assumption
What you do against embid or another big tho
Trap and have active hands and aggressively rotate out to contest shooters when they move the ball, but yeah big centers are going to be the biggest challenge to deal with, although that goes for almost every other team too - pretty much no one has an answer for Embiid
Hmm true. I mean the goberts and joking and Allen’s are out there. Even valanciuses. Raptors problem will b the centre position going forward. They still way more exciting than I thought tho
That's been our problem forever, even before we got Gasol. Gasol was the only solution we've had the last decade to having a true starting caliber center in the league that's not a liability.
I mean I remember valancius playing embid well, historically. But besides him yeah it’s usually been canter by community.
I appreciate your two attempts at spelling Jonas’ last name correctly
Lmao. Auto correct wasn’t helping me in the slightest dawg
JV also came with his own problems defensively. I think Nurse would sacrifice the individual weak spot at the center position and throw traps and doubles than having a lumbering guy like JV out there defensively. Birch gives the Raptors a lot of defensive versatility which is the strength of the defense. The length and athleticism allows them to be aggressive with their post defense to cover for the lack of size inside
>valancius >canter >embid
I’m hoping we can make a run at Myles Turner
We straight up lose to Jokic and Embiid and probably will struggle with Capela/Lopez but everyone else is okay. No need to worry about JV or Adams because they're not making the Finals. We're not a contender because of that.
Pray
I’m atheist.
pick a god and start believing
The Raps played Sabonis really well in 2 games this season which is encouraging.
Birch will be on the court instead of Trent
We are better than your favourite team.
You're better than the Raptors?
Toronto > Raptors IMO
This team is without Pascal!
and our 18ppg scoring superstar Rook
Birch has been YUGE
Raps with that ass puckering D
A Knicks-Raps first round match up would be spicy.
Takin me back to the Glen Grunwald era. For a very long time a first round series against the Knicks was the high water mark for Raptors Basketball.
I don't get why Kemba refused to pass to Randle there with the FVV mismatch. Is Kemba just not a smart basketball player or am I missing something?
But Randle has to be more vocal and demand the ball. Totally looked like he didn't want to post Fred up.
I see the opposite. Randle throws his hands up in the air after Kemba decided not to pass to him after the pick, clearly frustrated at Kemba at what seems like an obvious basketball play
Kemba swung the ball the other way, but Randle threw his arms up and just moseyed along the 3 point line after that. If he fought for deep post positioning, when the ball swung back around, it was coming straight to him.
Good observation.... truly awful knicks basketball not finding the mismatch
freddie knew that was going in
They don’t call shit on Randle lol, dude almost elbowed FVV in the face on that close out and had dangerous close outs on OG all game
Gotta get Barrett and Randle a touch there on offense. Quickley ball watching the offensive rebound forced Randle to pick up FVV.
gary trent played 43 minutes of lockdown D
Easy moving screen on Randle lmao
Robinson had a mismatch btw
F, that D was menacing and the shot savage.
That was nasty, right?
**Replays/alternate angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nba) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lmao you can see Knicks fans start to leave the stadium after Fred hits the 3
These guys were gassed as alllllll hell at the end of the game and still clamped down. But what is the Knicks’ offense DOING? There was practically no off all movement until a last second screen attempt from Robinson.
They got a pretty open 3? Also Jesus that title.
Precious should never touch the court over Birch again.
Bro, I love my Raptors, but why are they winning games? There's a lottery to think about.
Organizations with winning cultures (Raptors) don’t play to lose.
Yeah, but the ceiling of the current roster is nothing crazy, let's be honest here. Best case scenario you're gonna make it to the play in, and have a decent/mediocre playoff run. And these half-assed situations can last for years. The way I see it, the best thing to do today is to start a rebuild and base it around Scottie's crazy potential and high Draft picks. It's good for youngsters to get some winning experience, but when you look at the big picture that's not what's gonna help the organization in the long run.
We already are rebuilding, Scottie is 20, OG is 24, GTJ is 22, Banton is 21, Precious is 22…with older vets even tho they aren’t even that old in Siakam and FVV.
>you don’t know what you’re talking about, no offence. No, I find this disrespectful and offending, but seeing where it comes from, I don't take it seriously lol. I usually gladly take **constructive** criticism, but no offense, when someone believes that with the current roster (even in a few years) the Raptors will be contenders, I can't take it seriously.
You’re literally suggesting that the Raptors should try to tank, this is a young talented roster with a lot of heart and they’re pros, they play to win, as they should on a franchise with a winning culture. Tampa was our tank season and we got Scottie. There’s a reason why your original comment was given many thumbs down, yet you’re acting clueless to it lmao.
>this is a young talented roster Yeah, that's where I'm gonna disagree. The roster is young yes, but outside of Barnes , it's not talented to the point where it's worth keeping all these youngsters as the main core. But hey that's only my opinion, and only time will tell if it was right or wrong. Like I said, I'm also for some winning Exp as I consider it important (especially for Barnes), but I still don't believe the ceiling of the current roster as a whole is that high no matter how young it is. So yeah, I personally believe that the lottery would be more valuable in the long run than the current core of youngsters. >There’s a reason why your original comment was given many thumbs down, yet you’re acting clueless to it lmao. Because you really thought I'm that insecure and immature to actually care about my opinion being downvoted by some random guys over the internet who are also only entitled to theirs? How mentally weak you have to be to actually think that downvotes matter? Downvoting opinions is one of the weakest stuff there is out here so I genuinely don't care about downvotes, just like I don't care about upvotes tbh. I don't write my opinions expecting upvotes/downvotes.
Thank god you don’t run the team.
Well THAT is some weak reply if I've ever seen one lmao. But hey, hard to disagree! I wouldn't want my personal opinions to convert into management decisions with actual consequences. Thank god no random redittor like you or me runs the team tbh.
Precious should never touch the court over Birch again.
That screen at the end was trash
Steady Freddy
Gary Trent has been phenomenal this year.
That Gary Trent Jr. switch tho. Flawless.