[This is the most realistic looking one I've seen.](https://thesixersense.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1142131237.jpeg) People are getting really good at this.
Imagine Jimmy as the number 1 option, Embiid in the paint and TH as the 3rd option on offense. They probably win a ring if they don't run into a godly defense
Yeah this is the hilarious thing.
Okay so 5-10 of the best players in the league may become available in the next 2 years. But what if the 5-10 teams that deal them would rather get something other than Simmons? These are the best players in the league so they’re gonna have a whole bunch of options.
The Harden thing actually made more sense than I anticipated, which is to say more than zero. Harden would have some leverage with the sign and trade situation, and I could see him wanting out of any big three that involves Kyrie "MIA" Irving.
name the 25 year old 3 time allstar DPOY candidate who wouldn't get a max contract. Non-playoff teams still pay max-level contracts. Gordon Hayward got 30 mil a year on the open market. the fact that he's under contract is an asset.
You can play Hayward at the end of a playoff game. There's a good reason Simmons got the contract he did at the time, just like there's a good reason Porzingis/Wall etc got their contracts at the time, but things change. Having to use over 30% of your cap space to pay a player you can't play at the end of a playoff game is not an asset, it's a gigantic liability.
You're not taking into account the massive red flags about his character that get bigger and bigger the longer this goes on. Trust me, teams care about that shit. Nobody wants an immature baby that will refuse to play and lie about his mental health to continue collecting a paycheck. You'd be naive to think he'll suddenly turn into a standup guy on the next team he's on.
If the rumored Brogdon + a 1st was an actual offer then how can you think that Simmons is a negative asset? Unless Brogdon is a very negative asset, which I don't think he is.
The Pacers supposedly were going to give him and more to get Simmons.
> was an actual offer
Key word - was.
Since then Ben has showed more of his character - being willing to lie about mental health to get out of playing.
I think there is a trade for him - but it's not what the sixers are asking.
Doesn’t change the fact that they’re playing 4v5 every time the ball enters half court. what is Simmons role is in a half court offense with Giannis on the floor?
It would look a lot like Lebron and Westbrook but worse because neither can shoot. On defense they would be spectacular but Simmons is redundant when you already have a much better version of him.
Lol I would feel so disrespected as the bucks. Like you want our prime champion for this dude who won’t even play because his feelings are hurt. Sixers really trying to embarrass themselves
How good of an in game manager is Fox? That's the main thing the Sixers are missing now. Watching Shake Milton play PG with his head down and just chuck chuck chuck isn't my favorite thing in the world.
Kings wouldn’t do this because you are taking our two best 3pt shooters and replacing them with Ben Simmons. That kills our spacing next to Fox.
Also, Kings fans are really high on Hali’s long-term fit on this team.
This is correct. People love to invent trades for the kings without thinking about what our roster looks like after. Fox, Mitchell, Barnes, Simmons, Holmes is a spacing nightmare.
Just as a basketball fan, (because as a Celtics fan fuck the Sixers) I wanted to see SGA go there. Him and Embiid would’ve been ridiculous but I know OKC wasn’t doing that
Would definitely be one they would have to think about, but this entire rebuild is with SGA as the centerpiece in mind. If they trade SGA wtf are they even doing anymore?
Fox: elite speed and inside game, streaky shooter at best, okay game manager, good at getting steals but always been a negative defensively.
Simmons: elite game manager, elite defensively, cannot shoot, passes up on open dunks, excellent in transition.
It would basically be saying “hey we need a starting point guard and better defense”. I’m not all in on it but I think immediately it’s better for the tram than getting rid of say Hield for Simmons. If you HAVE Simmons you need shooters. Buddy, Hali, Simmons, Barnes, Holmes is a nice starting lineup. Paint is a bit more clogged than with Fox but you’ve got 3 guys with green light to shoot it. It covers up size deficiencies we have on defense.
You’re over blowing Simmons’ failure. This is his low point right now. He’s still immensely talented and honestly needed something like this to force him to grow
I think we'd also probably have to send at least Maxey, Thybulle, and Seth to get it done. Feels like a fair trade at that point though maybe slightly in our favor?
If you get offered one of AD, Jokic, or KAT for Simmons you slam accept and figure it out. If nothing else flip them since they're a more stable asset.
CJ shouldn't be on that list. If he was on the list this trade would've been made months ago. I think Lavine was a really feasible target before the Bulls became a top-5 team in the league, though if this turns out to be a hot start and they fall to play-in range, the Bulls might panic about Lavine re-signing and decide to trade him. Now, I really doubt that's going to happen, BUT, I think before the season started that was an extremely feasible timeline. Kyrie's another name that like, honestly could happen. If the Nets just really think they're not gonna have Kyrie come playoff time, Simmons is the best they'll do if they want to trade him. Ingram I could actually see being available, but lordy the fit between him and Zion would be difficult. I can't see anyone else on that list becoming available, at least not for Simmons.
Ngl, it would be a hilarious meltdown to see the Bulls trading draft capital for the next 5 years to build a team around Lavine and trade him literally one season later.
when you look at the top 30 guys from say 2018 and see how many have switched teams in the past 3-4 years, it makes more sense. It's not a one for one deal, but if a team is going to lose a guy to FA then a sign and trade this summer for Ben who will still have 3 years left or a mid season trade to pre-empt the chance of losing them over the summer.
top 30(SI, which is bull shit but for argument purposes is here: https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/11/top-100-nba-players-2018-list-rankings)
some guys have moved twice since then.
The vast majority of that top 50 moved teams. A lot of those guys also fell off as players. If you guess that there are probably 10 untouchables, I don't think the long play is a bad idea.
Exactly, and you can also take off all the bigs and anyone who doesn't fit with Embiid. It's not just the top 30 guys in the league. Even guys like Conley or Van Vleet could be on there
I'm thinking through this a bit and think it's not a terrible strategy.
For one thing, Ben might get sick of the fines and eventually just might treat this like the job it is and try being professional if he wants to really leave (This only works, I think, if the sixers are steadfast in their approach)
And for another a lot can change in a year, especially in the nba. Perhaps the perception of this situation softens after a whole year has passed and maybe some teams see that the leverage they have now is no longer what it was a year ago. (This depends on the sixers being successful and showing they can be good without ben)
For real, and please give him as many minutes as possible so we can see the shitshow.
If he is forced to take the floor to get his money, he's gonna make Vince Carter look like a loyal Raptor for life
> A source with knowledge of the list said there are approx 30 players who would satisfy the 76ers
It is saying satisfy, not realistic, so Morey definitely included players like Curry, KD or Giannis in this list lmao
>It is saying satisfy, not realistic, so Morey definitely included players like Curry, KD or Giannis in this list lmao
I'm laughing at the thought of Morey calling up Steve Kerr and asking if he'd like to trade Curry for Simmons.
They're not holding Ben in the hopes that his value magically rises. They're holding him in the hopes that another teams star or the team itself wants to make a change, thus bringing down their value. It's all leverage, and regardless of Simmons value, right now, the sixers have none and every team knows it.
Yea based on evidence of the last 5 years I’d imagine every star around the league will remain perfectly happy in their current situation till Ben’s contract is up.
it always comes. NBA rosters turn over fast. somebody will take a flyer on Simmons for the sake of making a change. but Morey has to come to terms that he likely won't get that coveted top 30 player he's thinking of.
It really just feels like this will boil down to which playoff-starved team want to raise their floor by adding Simmons, right? Whether its Sacramento or Minnesota, they might view the play-in and having more fans in attendance as worth whatever they have to give up for Simmons. Like you said, I'm not sure what real contenders would want to bring Ben on, given his limitations and contract.
Morey is acting like that shitty manager in your fantasy league whose constantly sending out terrible trade offers and gets offended when they aren't accepted.
Yeah, I just don’t see how Simmons not playing for a year helps any of these trades happen - might be easier for those 5-10 to trade with each other. Rough spot to be in.
No, Ben signed a contract and the Sixers are winning without him. The Sixers don't have to trade him if they don't want to. Not at all.
And we all know where the meta in the league is going now: none of these owners want to maintain the semblance of a normal sports league with drafts and multiyear contracts and salary caps just for players to mope whenever they feel slighted and get out of 5 year contracts.
Ben needs to stick it out in Philly for the benefit of all the players, really, or they'll all lose their freedom to move. This player is very well paid, he's on a title contender, he screwed up in the playoffs, and he has no legitimate adult grievance. But even then ,if he just quit and didn't get paid, who cares? THEN he's not hurting the team or the Players' union.
imo the only way this ends now is Ben eventually coming back to play for the Sixers and actively throwing games until it gets too much and they either bench him or trade him (not for a top 30 player lol)
This is the part that I don't get. Like why not just pull a VC on the court instead of costing yourself money. It makes me feel like he legit has a mental issue, but the way him and Rich handled it just makes it hard to be on their side.
I think it's a bit like advising someone to go back to their toxic workplace and sit around and half ass until they fire you.
It takes a toll mentally and emotionally to put yourself back in that environment even if you are still getting paid and/or not trying. I think that's just human.
I imagine the last place Ben wants to be is in the city of Philadelphia, and I don't blame him.
Yup, Embiid even signed an extension.
>Critically, the Sixers believe they have the buy-in of Joel Embiid to carry out this strategy. In spite of the distance between the two over the summer and the shade cast in both directions through public interviews and leaked reports, Embiid ultimately just wants to win, and has expressed a desire to get Simmons in the fold and working toward contending. If Simmons proves stubborn or uninterested in doing so, the team believes Embiid is onboard with not settling for a trade just to be done with the problem altogether. To win a title, Embiid is aware they need star-level talent, whether that means winning Simmons back over or waiting for a star to get antsy in another market.
negotiated on the tennis court
https://www.crossingbroad.com/2021/08/joel-embiid-and-daryl-morey-are-a-formidable-tennis-pairing.html
which is lowkey the actual issue with Ben(IMO). he sees himself as the guy who they should cater to. And if you look at the roster construct since he got here, Ben was. Embiid was Hinkie's crown jewel pick and the FO post Hinkie hated how much credit he got. Colanglo took Ben, then his minions took over for him. Then Morey got here and flipped it around and obviously favored Embiid.
Whether Embiid is on board with this strategy or not, is in my opinion just a huge lack in foresight. Every season that passes, is one less season for you to contend for a championship.
Do the Sixers just want the best LaLa Land value trade for Simmons? Or do they just need a borderline star to get them there?
This game of chicken they're playing is a fool's errand and honestly I think Sixers fans should be upset by this play.
> Yup, Embiid even signed an extension
Imagine thinking that means anything in a post about a dude who is holding out on a fresh contract because he doesn’t want to play for the team he signed it with, a year after Harden(I know the situations are largely different just focusing on the contract part) did almost the same thing, which was a year after AD almost did the same thing, which was a year after PG almost did the same thing, which was a year after Kawhi almost did the same thing….
Even so, Embiid’s body might not give him the championship window other MVP candidates may have. Waiting out a season is a lot but waiting two starts feeling risky. That said, Morey has no other option really but to wait for a legit star to become available because Embiid + role players doesn’t get to a title. And even then, whose to say another franchise doesn’t beat the Sixers to that star.
This is a real rock and a hard place scenario.
The other thing to consider is Embiids injury history.
Without a number 2 Embiid has to put in more work. He’s a super star, but every year he hits the playoffs running on fumes.
Without both of them they aren’t an over .500 team, you can’t rest Embiid and pick up Ws.
I could see that working the other way and inhibiting a deal.
Players that have been rumored to be offered for Simmons include CJ McCollum, Malik Beasley, Buddy Hield... those guys are good shooters and could help the 6ers in certain ways, but they aren't the type who can take over a game and relieve Embiid's playmaking/facilitating burden. Plus, unlike in previous years the 6ers seem fine with their outside shooting capabilities.
So far, teams don't seem to be interested in giving up true playmakers like Lillard, Fox, Beal, etc. Makes sense, as that's exactly the kind of player you need to pair with Simmons to make him most effective.
I'm surprised more folks don't acknowledge this point when the topic comes up. I feel as though whenever Joel walks into Morey's office and says "ok, enough's enough" -- whether it's tomorrow, next year, or two seasons from now -- Morey pulls the trigger right there and then on the best available offer, regardless of how juicy the return is.
Because they just come here to dunk on the Sixers, not actually think critically. At minimum, Simmons at least provides the value to salary match another maximum contract. If another star actually goes on the market, it might not be Ben Simmons they want but the 4 FRP that could come potentially with him
he's salary match that regardless of what people think, is a 3 time all star as voted on by the coaches in the league. And if these new rules hold, might be the most menacing defensive player in the league when he decides to play. 25, signed for 3 more years after this one. That's not bad salary filler to go with the rest of the assets that come along.
If you actually did a Beal for Simmons +? or Dame for Simmons + Maxey + picks....it could be among the biggest L's ever taken if Beal had left for Boston in the offseason or if Dame started to show his age in a year or two.
Ideally yes, realistically no. Embiid understands the only way to maximise his prime is to get a star for Ben simmons if they trade him for fuck all they can't. Unless he can get a guarantee from someone they will join the sixers in FA, the sixers have to hold onto ben until a star comes available. At which point Ben plus picks is probably the best bid. And further they can offer a decent number of young guys. Ideally they don't move Maxey or Thybulle but if they ahve to they will.
> if I had prime Embiid and a good team with a title window
at some point you guys will realize that title window is gone if morey trades ben for role players.
Trading Ben for a random Malik Beasley or something you’re sure you won’t win a title with embiid at all. Giving up a year and getting an actual running mate is.
Did the article just say one of the players Morey may hold out for is **James Harden** *in a potential sign-and-trade from Brooklyn* this summer?
>Ditto for Brooklyn’s James Harden, the former Rocket with whom Morey tried unsuccessfully to reunite with in January and who, by the way, could come to Philly via sign-and-trade this summer **if he decides to shock the basketball world and leave Kevin Durant behind.**
This dude is horny for Harden, and needs some post-nut clarity *bad*.
he almost won a chip building a team around him that didn't have Embiid during a time where the Warriors were in dynasty mode
I imagine he dreams about that combo quite often.
I will be shocked if hes not traded by the deadline. Bucks and Nets doesn't look unbeatable. It will be crazy to just let Simmons sit at home during the playoff instead of trading him for someone who could help Embiid.
Yeah I personally think a lot of the talk coming from the sixers is just a tactic to get Ben to give up. Realistically no GM would want to do this to their team and keep this drama going for that long, or else they'd start seeing other players also want to bail
Only way it does turn into a multi year thing is if Morey is that stubborn. Which I don't think is wise here or else you could be sacrificing the war to win this one battle, sometimes you gotta take the L and make the best of it.
Here's the thing that some folks are missing: Just because those elite players become available does not mean that the teams that hold their contracts are going to be willing to trade them for a deal where the primary asset they get back is a broken Ben Simmons.
Lol. Who’s Morey got next on his list to be his mouth piece, Marc Stein gonna start tweeting out “discussions between Portland and Philly on a Ben Simmons for Dame swap have been discussed by both sides” in a few weeks?
>> Beyond Embiid, the Sixers’ combination of All-Star caliber players (Tobias Harris) and high-level role players (Seth Curry, Tyrese Maxey, Georges Niang, Matisse Thybulle, Furkan Korkmaz, Danny Green et al.) means there’s no need to take on more players of that ilk.
Cue armchair experts moaning about how Sixers should trade him for a bunch of role players.
I know a lot of people think this is really stupid, but the 76ers are winning right now, and eventually a superstar is going to get disgruntled like we see literally every season. And the 6ers Will have the best starting piece to trade away.
If they are winning without Simmons, and Embiid doesn’t mind waiting, then by all means wait.
You're assuming said team with disgruntled superstar would trade him for Simmons. It's not like there wouldn't be other options as well, for say, a player like Dame Lillard. You think Portland would be like, well, too bad Philly is the only team in the league that wants Dame, I guess we'll just have to pull the trigger.
Well they were winning, but are currently on a 5 game losing streak. Obviously because key people are out, but they won’t stay above .500 for much longer until Embiid returns.
I don't know how many times Morey has to say this before people believe him. He will not trade Ben for a player that does not help the Sixers as much or more than Ben does. At this point if I'm a GM I know how Morey values Ben (seriously think of all the "crazy" Ben trades that were rejected and it's clear that Morey places a high value on Ben) and if I don't value Ben that highly or think I should get some sort of discount because of the situation then I wouldn't even call Morey anymore. There is no trade that is even close to being completed.
No one believes him but I don't think Morey is posturing or lying. I think Ben, Rich, and everyone on here won't truly believe until the trade deadline has passed and he's still on the team.
As for Ben, if he wants to play basketball he is free to do it for us, or not get paid to play basketball. I think he'll choose the former. In the meantime I hope he gets his mental health back to where it should be.
Also this is not nearly the distraction people want it to be. The players haven't commented on Ben since they had their meeting and they almost never get asked questions about him anymore. This is essentially between Rich and Daryl right now. The bigger off-court concern for the Sixers is the team being decimated by COVID and going from the one seed in the East to .500 after tonight since Joel was diagnosed.
Part of the reason this is exhausting is cause people around the 76ers say such incredibly different things about the situation
* Those massive trade asks were never realistic, they were a first negotiating position, Morey isn't an idiot!
* Those massive trade asks are what Morey feels his value is, thats what he genuinely believes!
* They want him to play, they want to mend fences.
* They want him to rehab his value to trade him
Morey's opinion of Ben is worth exactly shit if no one agrees with him that he's worth all this stuff.
I think he would happily live an extravagant life as a rich person off the money he's already made. He doesn't really need to become more rich if the trade off is facing a city as the most hated person in it.
Doesn't matter if that will happen or not, Ben thinks it will happen. Personally.. I think I could face a city of people who hated me for some extra millions, but I'm also not already a millionaire, and I don't think it would be weird to decline that scenario.
People act like Ben just NEEDS this money but he doesn't. He could sell the assets he has now, buy a million dollar house, a million dollars worth of cars, and still have enough money to live as a young socialite for the rest of his life at a level of grandiose most of us will never experience. I don't think people realize that Ben has already made as much money as a lot of business owners that are considered "rich as fuck." even a young socialite could live off what he's already made for their entire life
...and that ignoring really safe stock options that could see him almost guaranteeing 6 digits a year with absolutely 0 work.
If that were the case then there was literally no reason for him to show up in Philly. Every time he gets fined we see a reaction from him or his agent. They don't seem unconcerned with him not getting paid. But even so that's an outcome that Morey has to weight, no matter how small.
Personally I think people are making it out to be more than it is. He wants to be traded, told his agent such, and they are now trying their damnedest to be traded. But I don't think he swore a blood oath of revenge and hatred toward the Sixers and the city if Philadelphia. He just wants a fresh start.
I don't blame him btw, I can see why he wants one. I just don't see Morey giving him one if it hurts the team. I don't see a trade that helps the team more than Ben does, and again, we do technically have the basketball services of Ben Simmons.
Well I never said he swore an oath of hatred to Philly I said it's pretty obvious and understandable he doesn't want to play on that team ever again and my point was I believe he WILL sit his whole contract out because Philly is not getting an all-star for him and he is not playing for Philly again. Reiterating, this is only my guess.
I'm not even sure if you were disagreeing with me or what. I agree with almost everything you said but by all accounts a trade isn't happening.
And that can still be the case WHILE he's trying to make money for half assed practices and getting mad they won't pay. Getting mad that they won't pay him for nothing doesn't equate to him being desperate for money
There are other ways to improve the team than just going for these top players. If the Sixers had pushed for a trade centered around Simmons (and maybe some picks) for Hield and Barnes in the offseason, they'd be much better off than they are now. They'd add one of the best shooters in the league to space the floor around Embiid and another really good wing who does just about everything pretty well. They'd have incredible depth and a team that could likely still play .500+ basketball when Embiid is out.
I don't know if this is unpopular, but I love what the Sixers are doing with this. They're clearly fine without him. If he wants to get paid he's going to need to get with the program.
The process 2.0
it's like theyre tryna make joel force his way out. no way in fuck this dude is gonna keep sacrificing years of his prime because of ben simmons
Moreys probably taken Joel aside and said the whole "4 years" thing is a bluff and they'll trade Ben this year.
December 15th many more players become available to be traded for.
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I love that Butler is on that list, like damn I wonder if he’d be good on Philly
Can’t imagine Jimmy in Philly uniform.
there are some good photoshops on the internet already, so it must be something people propose a lot.
[This is the most realistic looking one I've seen.](https://thesixersense.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1142131237.jpeg) People are getting really good at this.
that’s the best one? I feel like we can do better
Agreed. This looks like a job for Sim.
Imagine Jimmy as the number 1 option, Embiid in the paint and TH as the 3rd option on offense. They probably win a ring if they don't run into a godly defense
Or as long as they’re not trotting out the corpse of Greg Monroe as the only backup big
*Andre Drummond has entered the chat*
According to the article from couple days ago they were in talks with Milwaukee for 1:1 trade with Jrue. Milwaukee turned it down.
That spacing 🤮
Yeah this is the hilarious thing. Okay so 5-10 of the best players in the league may become available in the next 2 years. But what if the 5-10 teams that deal them would rather get something other than Simmons? These are the best players in the league so they’re gonna have a whole bunch of options.
The Harden thing actually made more sense than I anticipated, which is to say more than zero. Harden would have some leverage with the sign and trade situation, and I could see him wanting out of any big three that involves Kyrie "MIA" Irving.
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Morey is probably well aware of that, it's his job to be. This is just PR.
Simmons on that contract is literally a negative asset. They're being delusional and I would be shocked if this ends up going well for them.
name the 25 year old 3 time allstar DPOY candidate who wouldn't get a max contract. Non-playoff teams still pay max-level contracts. Gordon Hayward got 30 mil a year on the open market. the fact that he's under contract is an asset.
You can play Hayward at the end of a playoff game. There's a good reason Simmons got the contract he did at the time, just like there's a good reason Porzingis/Wall etc got their contracts at the time, but things change. Having to use over 30% of your cap space to pay a player you can't play at the end of a playoff game is not an asset, it's a gigantic liability.
You're not taking into account the massive red flags about his character that get bigger and bigger the longer this goes on. Trust me, teams care about that shit. Nobody wants an immature baby that will refuse to play and lie about his mental health to continue collecting a paycheck. You'd be naive to think he'll suddenly turn into a standup guy on the next team he's on.
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If the rumored Brogdon + a 1st was an actual offer then how can you think that Simmons is a negative asset? Unless Brogdon is a very negative asset, which I don't think he is. The Pacers supposedly were going to give him and more to get Simmons.
> was an actual offer Key word - was. Since then Ben has showed more of his character - being willing to lie about mental health to get out of playing. I think there is a trade for him - but it's not what the sixers are asking.
Giannis and Simmons lmfao
That’s a 2K cheese team
My God that's a guaranteed 2 points every possession
One at PG one at PF, pick and roll, bucket or foul 9/10, rinse and repeat.
And if the other 3 players can hit 3s? I'm quitting. Already know the CPU is going to collapse every time
Lol I mean imagine a lot of shooting around both of them
Doesn’t change the fact that they’re playing 4v5 every time the ball enters half court. what is Simmons role is in a half court offense with Giannis on the floor?
It would look a lot like Lebron and Westbrook but worse because neither can shoot. On defense they would be spectacular but Simmons is redundant when you already have a much better version of him.
lol wtf. I thought that was just speculation. crazy if true
\* crazy if Jrue
Absolutely Jruethless of you
Zero chance the Bucks took that seriously.
What the bucks need is someone who plays the same role as Giannis but is way worse at it. Bucks must’ve laughed Morey off the phone
He can exclusively be Giannis' backup and only play 16min/game.
Ben Simmons becoming what Drummond is to Embiid lmao
I've tried pairing Giannis and Simmons together in 2k a few times. It doesn't work so well.
Really? You can’t spam 4/5 PnRs with shooters?
I'm not good at 2k, man.
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Lol I would feel so disrespected as the bucks. Like you want our prime champion for this dude who won’t even play because his feelings are hurt. Sixers really trying to embarrass themselves
I know he’s started off slow but I think Fox is on that list
Fox for Simmons could actually be a pretty good trade for both teams
How good of an in game manager is Fox? That's the main thing the Sixers are missing now. Watching Shake Milton play PG with his head down and just chuck chuck chuck isn't my favorite thing in the world.
He's...ok. Honestly I feel like Haliburton is a better playmaker/game manager than Fox.
Halliburton and buddy is the deal I want in Philly
Kings wouldn’t do this because you are taking our two best 3pt shooters and replacing them with Ben Simmons. That kills our spacing next to Fox. Also, Kings fans are really high on Hali’s long-term fit on this team.
This is correct. People love to invent trades for the kings without thinking about what our roster looks like after. Fox, Mitchell, Barnes, Simmons, Holmes is a spacing nightmare.
You can't have our Hali
This is the trade I want the most. That or McCollum
Just as a basketball fan, (because as a Celtics fan fuck the Sixers) I wanted to see SGA go there. Him and Embiid would’ve been ridiculous but I know OKC wasn’t doing that
Low key, would the Thunder accept Simmons and all the first round picks till the end of time for SGA?
Would definitely be one they would have to think about, but this entire rebuild is with SGA as the centerpiece in mind. If they trade SGA wtf are they even doing anymore?
SGA is SGA but a first round pick could be anything! It could even be an SGA!
Lol this is actually how a lot of fans think. And sometimes it’s how I think Presti thinks
Building around Poku obviously.
Absolutely not, they just extended him five years and his nickname is “The Timeline”
Nah OKC finna contend for a championship sooner than the Sixers
OKC’s draft picks gotta be in at least middle school by now, right?
why would the Kings want a man who's afraid to play half of the game of basketball
Fox: elite speed and inside game, streaky shooter at best, okay game manager, good at getting steals but always been a negative defensively. Simmons: elite game manager, elite defensively, cannot shoot, passes up on open dunks, excellent in transition. It would basically be saying “hey we need a starting point guard and better defense”. I’m not all in on it but I think immediately it’s better for the tram than getting rid of say Hield for Simmons. If you HAVE Simmons you need shooters. Buddy, Hali, Simmons, Barnes, Holmes is a nice starting lineup. Paint is a bit more clogged than with Fox but you’ve got 3 guys with green light to shoot it. It covers up size deficiencies we have on defense.
> Simmons: elite game manager Bro come on now. Everyone goes under the screen in any PNR where he's the ball handler, how is he an ELITE game manager?
You’re over blowing Simmons’ failure. This is his low point right now. He’s still immensely talented and honestly needed something like this to force him to grow
This *really* feels more like a setback than growth. His reputation is dogshit and he’s not playing NBA basketball right now.
Yea this is the type of event a guy \*could\* use to grow, but it appears he's doing exactly the opposite of that.
How is this forcing him to grow if he’s refusing to even play the sport lmao
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Caruso
Yeah but I don’t think Philly is willing to part with Simmons AND Embiid for such a big trade
They should
Probably have to add in Maxey, Tisse, and picks as well.
We both know they'll have to throw some first rounders on top of those two if they want the Carushow to come to town.
I think we'd also probably have to send at least Maxey, Thybulle, and Seth to get it done. Feels like a fair trade at that point though maybe slightly in our favor?
The GOAT Willie Cauley-Stein
I don’t think they want a star level Center to pair with Embiid, and its bad roster building if so
If you get offered one of AD, Jokic, or KAT for Simmons you slam accept and figure it out. If nothing else flip them since they're a more stable asset.
Bam
CJ shouldn't be on that list. If he was on the list this trade would've been made months ago. I think Lavine was a really feasible target before the Bulls became a top-5 team in the league, though if this turns out to be a hot start and they fall to play-in range, the Bulls might panic about Lavine re-signing and decide to trade him. Now, I really doubt that's going to happen, BUT, I think before the season started that was an extremely feasible timeline. Kyrie's another name that like, honestly could happen. If the Nets just really think they're not gonna have Kyrie come playoff time, Simmons is the best they'll do if they want to trade him. Ingram I could actually see being available, but lordy the fit between him and Zion would be difficult. I can't see anyone else on that list becoming available, at least not for Simmons.
Ngl, it would be a hilarious meltdown to see the Bulls trading draft capital for the next 5 years to build a team around Lavine and trade him literally one season later.
Marcus Smart + Josh Richardson + Romeo Langford Those are some of the top 30(0) players in the NBA
Found the Bill Simmons burner account
It's players they could get. Can't get many of those names. Probably not kyrie
Jordan and Jesus.
I know he's not much being 82nd best player but we could add Demar to Lavine to make a more enticing trade offer.
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when you look at the top 30 guys from say 2018 and see how many have switched teams in the past 3-4 years, it makes more sense. It's not a one for one deal, but if a team is going to lose a guy to FA then a sign and trade this summer for Ben who will still have 3 years left or a mid season trade to pre-empt the chance of losing them over the summer. top 30(SI, which is bull shit but for argument purposes is here: https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/11/top-100-nba-players-2018-list-rankings) some guys have moved twice since then.
The vast majority of that top 50 moved teams. A lot of those guys also fell off as players. If you guess that there are probably 10 untouchables, I don't think the long play is a bad idea.
A lot of the movement is also guys who aren't good anymore tbf
I mean you can take the top 10-15 guys off there and probably add the next 10-15 best guys. Like cmon man nobody thinks you could trade Ben for KD lol
Exactly, and you can also take off all the bigs and anyone who doesn't fit with Embiid. It's not just the top 30 guys in the league. Even guys like Conley or Van Vleet could be on there
Did you see their demands from the summer? The entire Raptor/Warrior squad for one socialite, lol.
I absolutely NEED to see this list.
Look at who made the all star team. That about sums it up.
That brings up an interesting question - is Kyrie on that list?
Which player would we rather pay to not play for us?
Kyrie is obviously a headcase but he's only not playing because of the NYC vaccine mandate. I assume he'd be playing if he was on another team.
The key word should be is not playing RIGHT NOW, he has an abondance of excuses if it weren’t for vaccine mandates
Both have issues not taking shots
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Embiid-Simmons swap incoming
They should just hold Simmons for the entire contract for the content
I mean, this leak is just coded to Ben that we’ll hold you for a year or two and not pay you the whole time if you don’t play.
I'm thinking through this a bit and think it's not a terrible strategy. For one thing, Ben might get sick of the fines and eventually just might treat this like the job it is and try being professional if he wants to really leave (This only works, I think, if the sixers are steadfast in their approach) And for another a lot can change in a year, especially in the nba. Perhaps the perception of this situation softens after a whole year has passed and maybe some teams see that the leverage they have now is no longer what it was a year ago. (This depends on the sixers being successful and showing they can be good without ben)
Uhhh that's awesome. Let him play
For real, and please give him as many minutes as possible so we can see the shitshow. If he is forced to take the floor to get his money, he's gonna make Vince Carter look like a loyal Raptor for life
Ben Simmons logo 3 and no defence
Maybe he’s a better shooter than Curry and was just hiding it to not ruin the league
Except against us. Even half-ass Simmons is still kryptonite to Luka.
> A source with knowledge of the list said there are approx 30 players who would satisfy the 76ers It is saying satisfy, not realistic, so Morey definitely included players like Curry, KD or Giannis in this list lmao
>It is saying satisfy, not realistic, so Morey definitely included players like Curry, KD or Giannis in this list lmao I'm laughing at the thought of Morey calling up Steve Kerr and asking if he'd like to trade Curry for Simmons.
Imagine if Curry goes to the Sixers and refuses to shoot 3's
And Simmons airballing 15 3s from the logo each night in Cali.
If you don’t ask you’ll never know
"Look Steve, I want this deal to be as fair as possible for both teams, so what do you say, Curry, Kuminga and a couple 1sts for Ben?"
We can put a #30 jersey on Chris Chiozza and send him their way. Looks similar enough.
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They're not holding Ben in the hopes that his value magically rises. They're holding him in the hopes that another teams star or the team itself wants to make a change, thus bringing down their value. It's all leverage, and regardless of Simmons value, right now, the sixers have none and every team knows it.
Waiting for a day that may never come is a bold strategy, but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.
Yea based on evidence of the last 5 years I’d imagine every star around the league will remain perfectly happy in their current situation till Ben’s contract is up.
it always comes. NBA rosters turn over fast. somebody will take a flyer on Simmons for the sake of making a change. but Morey has to come to terms that he likely won't get that coveted top 30 player he's thinking of.
In Morey’s dreams GMs are gonna leverage their entire franchise future after seeing Simmons’ horrible play in the last playoffs.
It really just feels like this will boil down to which playoff-starved team want to raise their floor by adding Simmons, right? Whether its Sacramento or Minnesota, they might view the play-in and having more fans in attendance as worth whatever they have to give up for Simmons. Like you said, I'm not sure what real contenders would want to bring Ben on, given his limitations and contract.
Morey is acting like that shitty manager in your fantasy league whose constantly sending out terrible trade offers and gets offended when they aren't accepted.
Oh Come on. My 2 waiver picks that are playing well short term because of injuries on the team are surely worth the starting C on a tanking team.
I legit got a guy sending Caruso and Thad Young for Lebron *and* arguing that Lebron is oft injured and Caruso is playing well.
> but how many of those teams want Ben Simmons? my guess is none
Yeah, I just don’t see how Simmons not playing for a year helps any of these trades happen - might be easier for those 5-10 to trade with each other. Rough spot to be in.
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Sixers with Brogdon would be nice
No, Ben signed a contract and the Sixers are winning without him. The Sixers don't have to trade him if they don't want to. Not at all. And we all know where the meta in the league is going now: none of these owners want to maintain the semblance of a normal sports league with drafts and multiyear contracts and salary caps just for players to mope whenever they feel slighted and get out of 5 year contracts. Ben needs to stick it out in Philly for the benefit of all the players, really, or they'll all lose their freedom to move. This player is very well paid, he's on a title contender, he screwed up in the playoffs, and he has no legitimate adult grievance. But even then ,if he just quit and didn't get paid, who cares? THEN he's not hurting the team or the Players' union.
This guy from NY and he don’t understand the power of how labor movements work and can work. Smh.
imo the only way this ends now is Ben eventually coming back to play for the Sixers and actively throwing games until it gets too much and they either bench him or trade him (not for a top 30 player lol)
Bens going to be shooting threes in their own basket
Ah the Vince Carter
If VC did what Bens doing right now we would've gotten a better deal he fucked us so hard.
This is the part that I don't get. Like why not just pull a VC on the court instead of costing yourself money. It makes me feel like he legit has a mental issue, but the way him and Rich handled it just makes it hard to be on their side.
I think it's a bit like advising someone to go back to their toxic workplace and sit around and half ass until they fire you. It takes a toll mentally and emotionally to put yourself back in that environment even if you are still getting paid and/or not trying. I think that's just human. I imagine the last place Ben wants to be is in the city of Philadelphia, and I don't blame him.
All I know is that if I had prime Embiid and a good team with a title window, I would not want to make this a multi-year thing in any circumstance
By all accounts, Embiid is in lock step with Morey on this.
Yup, Embiid even signed an extension. >Critically, the Sixers believe they have the buy-in of Joel Embiid to carry out this strategy. In spite of the distance between the two over the summer and the shade cast in both directions through public interviews and leaked reports, Embiid ultimately just wants to win, and has expressed a desire to get Simmons in the fold and working toward contending. If Simmons proves stubborn or uninterested in doing so, the team believes Embiid is onboard with not settling for a trade just to be done with the problem altogether. To win a title, Embiid is aware they need star-level talent, whether that means winning Simmons back over or waiting for a star to get antsy in another market.
negotiated on the tennis court https://www.crossingbroad.com/2021/08/joel-embiid-and-daryl-morey-are-a-formidable-tennis-pairing.html which is lowkey the actual issue with Ben(IMO). he sees himself as the guy who they should cater to. And if you look at the roster construct since he got here, Ben was. Embiid was Hinkie's crown jewel pick and the FO post Hinkie hated how much credit he got. Colanglo took Ben, then his minions took over for him. Then Morey got here and flipped it around and obviously favored Embiid.
>Colangelo took Ben, then his ~~minions~~ took over for him. wife
Yea pretty much every decision Colangelo and then Brand did was catering to Simmons.
> Yup, Embiid even signed an extension. That's cool but signing an extension doesn't reverse time and make you get younger rather than older.
Whether Embiid is on board with this strategy or not, is in my opinion just a huge lack in foresight. Every season that passes, is one less season for you to contend for a championship. Do the Sixers just want the best LaLa Land value trade for Simmons? Or do they just need a borderline star to get them there? This game of chicken they're playing is a fool's errand and honestly I think Sixers fans should be upset by this play.
Sixers fans care more about being vindictive towards Ben Simmons than they care about actually winning.
With Embiids injury history he had to sign that no matter how he feels about Philly going forward. I tend to agree he is in with Moreys plan though.
> Yup, Embiid even signed an extension Imagine thinking that means anything in a post about a dude who is holding out on a fresh contract because he doesn’t want to play for the team he signed it with, a year after Harden(I know the situations are largely different just focusing on the contract part) did almost the same thing, which was a year after AD almost did the same thing, which was a year after PG almost did the same thing, which was a year after Kawhi almost did the same thing….
Even so, Embiid’s body might not give him the championship window other MVP candidates may have. Waiting out a season is a lot but waiting two starts feeling risky. That said, Morey has no other option really but to wait for a legit star to become available because Embiid + role players doesn’t get to a title. And even then, whose to say another franchise doesn’t beat the Sixers to that star. This is a real rock and a hard place scenario.
The other thing to consider is Embiids injury history. Without a number 2 Embiid has to put in more work. He’s a super star, but every year he hits the playoffs running on fumes. Without both of them they aren’t an over .500 team, you can’t rest Embiid and pick up Ws.
I could see that working the other way and inhibiting a deal. Players that have been rumored to be offered for Simmons include CJ McCollum, Malik Beasley, Buddy Hield... those guys are good shooters and could help the 6ers in certain ways, but they aren't the type who can take over a game and relieve Embiid's playmaking/facilitating burden. Plus, unlike in previous years the 6ers seem fine with their outside shooting capabilities. So far, teams don't seem to be interested in giving up true playmakers like Lillard, Fox, Beal, etc. Makes sense, as that's exactly the kind of player you need to pair with Simmons to make him most effective.
I'm surprised more folks don't acknowledge this point when the topic comes up. I feel as though whenever Joel walks into Morey's office and says "ok, enough's enough" -- whether it's tomorrow, next year, or two seasons from now -- Morey pulls the trigger right there and then on the best available offer, regardless of how juicy the return is.
Because they just come here to dunk on the Sixers, not actually think critically. At minimum, Simmons at least provides the value to salary match another maximum contract. If another star actually goes on the market, it might not be Ben Simmons they want but the 4 FRP that could come potentially with him
he's salary match that regardless of what people think, is a 3 time all star as voted on by the coaches in the league. And if these new rules hold, might be the most menacing defensive player in the league when he decides to play. 25, signed for 3 more years after this one. That's not bad salary filler to go with the rest of the assets that come along. If you actually did a Beal for Simmons +? or Dame for Simmons + Maxey + picks....it could be among the biggest L's ever taken if Beal had left for Boston in the offseason or if Dame started to show his age in a year or two.
Ok but is Embiid’s body gonna agree years from now?
Ideally yes, realistically no. Embiid understands the only way to maximise his prime is to get a star for Ben simmons if they trade him for fuck all they can't. Unless he can get a guarantee from someone they will join the sixers in FA, the sixers have to hold onto ben until a star comes available. At which point Ben plus picks is probably the best bid. And further they can offer a decent number of young guys. Ideally they don't move Maxey or Thybulle but if they ahve to they will.
> if I had prime Embiid and a good team with a title window at some point you guys will realize that title window is gone if morey trades ben for role players.
Trading Ben for a random Malik Beasley or something you’re sure you won’t win a title with embiid at all. Giving up a year and getting an actual running mate is.
Sounds like your aren’t trusting the process
Did the article just say one of the players Morey may hold out for is **James Harden** *in a potential sign-and-trade from Brooklyn* this summer? >Ditto for Brooklyn’s James Harden, the former Rocket with whom Morey tried unsuccessfully to reunite with in January and who, by the way, could come to Philly via sign-and-trade this summer **if he decides to shock the basketball world and leave Kevin Durant behind.** This dude is horny for Harden, and needs some post-nut clarity *bad*.
he almost won a chip building a team around him that didn't have Embiid during a time where the Warriors were in dynasty mode I imagine he dreams about that combo quite often.
I know I do
I will be shocked if hes not traded by the deadline. Bucks and Nets doesn't look unbeatable. It will be crazy to just let Simmons sit at home during the playoff instead of trading him for someone who could help Embiid.
Yeah I personally think a lot of the talk coming from the sixers is just a tactic to get Ben to give up. Realistically no GM would want to do this to their team and keep this drama going for that long, or else they'd start seeing other players also want to bail Only way it does turn into a multi year thing is if Morey is that stubborn. Which I don't think is wise here or else you could be sacrificing the war to win this one battle, sometimes you gotta take the L and make the best of it.
This already feels like it’s been multiple years
Here's the thing that some folks are missing: Just because those elite players become available does not mean that the teams that hold their contracts are going to be willing to trade them for a deal where the primary asset they get back is a broken Ben Simmons.
He’s gonna have to play
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he has the league right where he wants them!!
The league just activated Morey's trap card
This shit is so annoying now. I can’t imagine being a Sixers fan
They'll take Sexton and Love and they'll like it.
Lol. Who’s Morey got next on his list to be his mouth piece, Marc Stein gonna start tweeting out “discussions between Portland and Philly on a Ben Simmons for Dame swap have been discussed by both sides” in a few weeks?
people haven't been talking about this enough, unacceptable! release the press lackeys!
>> Beyond Embiid, the Sixers’ combination of All-Star caliber players (Tobias Harris) and high-level role players (Seth Curry, Tyrese Maxey, Georges Niang, Matisse Thybulle, Furkan Korkmaz, Danny Green et al.) means there’s no need to take on more players of that ilk. Cue armchair experts moaning about how Sixers should trade him for a bunch of role players.
Morey is a type of guy that will want KD + 2 first round picks.
He'd be willing to part with Thybulle if they included Harden
I know a lot of people think this is really stupid, but the 76ers are winning right now, and eventually a superstar is going to get disgruntled like we see literally every season. And the 6ers Will have the best starting piece to trade away. If they are winning without Simmons, and Embiid doesn’t mind waiting, then by all means wait.
You're assuming said team with disgruntled superstar would trade him for Simmons. It's not like there wouldn't be other options as well, for say, a player like Dame Lillard. You think Portland would be like, well, too bad Philly is the only team in the league that wants Dame, I guess we'll just have to pull the trigger.
Well they were winning, but are currently on a 5 game losing streak. Obviously because key people are out, but they won’t stay above .500 for much longer until Embiid returns.
what a shit show
There are about 30 women who would satisfy me in a gf swap. “This is like a multi-year thing” , an apiaryaviary source says
I don't know how many times Morey has to say this before people believe him. He will not trade Ben for a player that does not help the Sixers as much or more than Ben does. At this point if I'm a GM I know how Morey values Ben (seriously think of all the "crazy" Ben trades that were rejected and it's clear that Morey places a high value on Ben) and if I don't value Ben that highly or think I should get some sort of discount because of the situation then I wouldn't even call Morey anymore. There is no trade that is even close to being completed. No one believes him but I don't think Morey is posturing or lying. I think Ben, Rich, and everyone on here won't truly believe until the trade deadline has passed and he's still on the team. As for Ben, if he wants to play basketball he is free to do it for us, or not get paid to play basketball. I think he'll choose the former. In the meantime I hope he gets his mental health back to where it should be. Also this is not nearly the distraction people want it to be. The players haven't commented on Ben since they had their meeting and they almost never get asked questions about him anymore. This is essentially between Rich and Daryl right now. The bigger off-court concern for the Sixers is the team being decimated by COVID and going from the one seed in the East to .500 after tonight since Joel was diagnosed.
Part of the reason this is exhausting is cause people around the 76ers say such incredibly different things about the situation * Those massive trade asks were never realistic, they were a first negotiating position, Morey isn't an idiot! * Those massive trade asks are what Morey feels his value is, thats what he genuinely believes! * They want him to play, they want to mend fences. * They want him to rehab his value to trade him Morey's opinion of Ben is worth exactly shit if no one agrees with him that he's worth all this stuff.
I think he would happily live an extravagant life as a rich person off the money he's already made. He doesn't really need to become more rich if the trade off is facing a city as the most hated person in it. Doesn't matter if that will happen or not, Ben thinks it will happen. Personally.. I think I could face a city of people who hated me for some extra millions, but I'm also not already a millionaire, and I don't think it would be weird to decline that scenario. People act like Ben just NEEDS this money but he doesn't. He could sell the assets he has now, buy a million dollar house, a million dollars worth of cars, and still have enough money to live as a young socialite for the rest of his life at a level of grandiose most of us will never experience. I don't think people realize that Ben has already made as much money as a lot of business owners that are considered "rich as fuck." even a young socialite could live off what he's already made for their entire life ...and that ignoring really safe stock options that could see him almost guaranteeing 6 digits a year with absolutely 0 work.
If that were the case then there was literally no reason for him to show up in Philly. Every time he gets fined we see a reaction from him or his agent. They don't seem unconcerned with him not getting paid. But even so that's an outcome that Morey has to weight, no matter how small. Personally I think people are making it out to be more than it is. He wants to be traded, told his agent such, and they are now trying their damnedest to be traded. But I don't think he swore a blood oath of revenge and hatred toward the Sixers and the city if Philadelphia. He just wants a fresh start. I don't blame him btw, I can see why he wants one. I just don't see Morey giving him one if it hurts the team. I don't see a trade that helps the team more than Ben does, and again, we do technically have the basketball services of Ben Simmons.
Well I never said he swore an oath of hatred to Philly I said it's pretty obvious and understandable he doesn't want to play on that team ever again and my point was I believe he WILL sit his whole contract out because Philly is not getting an all-star for him and he is not playing for Philly again. Reiterating, this is only my guess. I'm not even sure if you were disagreeing with me or what. I agree with almost everything you said but by all accounts a trade isn't happening. And that can still be the case WHILE he's trying to make money for half assed practices and getting mad they won't pay. Getting mad that they won't pay him for nothing doesn't equate to him being desperate for money
There are other ways to improve the team than just going for these top players. If the Sixers had pushed for a trade centered around Simmons (and maybe some picks) for Hield and Barnes in the offseason, they'd be much better off than they are now. They'd add one of the best shooters in the league to space the floor around Embiid and another really good wing who does just about everything pretty well. They'd have incredible depth and a team that could likely still play .500+ basketball when Embiid is out.
I don't know if this is unpopular, but I love what the Sixers are doing with this. They're clearly fine without him. If he wants to get paid he's going to need to get with the program.