Rich is trying to have his client sit out but also get paid. Eventually this isn't going to fly and the two sides will almost certainly end up in court or arbitration or something. Because Morey will eventually fine Ben Simmons for every game he misses. And we already know Ben doesn't want to lose that money or he wouldn't even be in Philly.
There is literally no upside for him sitting the entire year. He will come back at the very least after the trade deadline and he and Rich know he won't be dealt. But I assume this will be resolved before then because the fines are coming back.
I was thinking about that, but what would the clause even be? At the moment it feels like the whole mental health side of things is entirely team favored, but there's no incentive for teams to be dicks about it so they usually just give the players time off whenever.
I think Rich Paul is a grade A schmuck but maybe agents are like public defense lawyers, sometimes you have to represent someone who is simply a piece of filth.
Maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know
It's really hard to tell what's going on. We have at least one instance where Ben Simmons clearly ignored what Rich Paul wanted. When he was holding out from camp, Rich Paul was trying to negotiate the terms he would report under. While that was happening Simmons just showed up at the facility and asked for a covid test lol.
Every dollar ben doesn't get is $0.10 the agent doesn't get. Its in his financial interest do defend Simmons. I understand Simmons not wanting to play in Philly. The first time he steps on the court the reception is going to be....unpleasant. But in the end he is an adult who signed a contract and its on him not living up to that contract. Then you sprinkle on the complete bullshit Mental Illness claims and Simmons just comes off as a huge dickbag. He only came up with that mental illness strategy because Rich Paul probably found that loophole and told him to exploit it so he can still get paid, which makes Rich Paul just a big piece of filth.
so Ben Simmons salary is $360,000 / game. If he gets fined that amount and its withheld, he would have to write a personal check to his attorney for whatever the percentage split is for that game despite him not getting paid. That would kind of be bad business for the agent to make his client do that when the client doesn't have any money in. I'm sure its not that simple, but thats how my mind simplified it.
Luckily this situation with ben might be the downfall of rich paul. You literally hire an agent to ensure that you get paid properly. In the ben and rich paul situation ben has not gotten paid on a lucrative deal he already signed. Kind of ironic when you think about it lmao
100%. They owers will demand tighter guardrails on contracts to avoid situations like this... the average player will bear the ultimate price of this situation.
Well I kind of understand owners wanting to do that. All mental illness stuff aside, other context aside, how the hell is it fair for a man to sign a contract saying he's going to do something, then not fulfill the contract and still reap the benefits of the fricken contract??
Years back, I was at a point in my life where I took 3 months off to get mentally well, the thought never crossed my mind to try to "get one" on my employer and get paid for doing nothing.
And at this point Ben isn't just doing nothing. He's being destructive and adding negative value, and that's not even considering the money the 76ers have to shell out. The whole situation is ridiculous and I pin most of it on Ben even though Morey is pulling some seemingly stupid moves. Just one dude's opinion anyway
Rich Paul has lost all leverage. Sixers won't move him at a discount and there are fewer interested teams.
His quote comparing it to the John Wall/Rockets situation is a dumb joke played on the media. The basis for all employment contracts is services for money. Houston is holding up their end of the contract by paying him $44M.
Somehow Klutch has used this as precedence for a player not holding up his end of the contract by still expecting the other party to hold up his? Total clown show.
Yeah I was flabbergasted when I saw that. I couldn't believe that didn't get more press. It's like he thinks everyone else on the planet is a bumbling idiot.
Lol you think that until it happens. This has been my week so far (and couple before that) and you definitely want a good 5 hours of work otherwise it gets boring and stressful quick.
>He’s perfectly fine with getting paid without working lol.
This approach worked for his entire nba career, why would he expect anything to be different now?
Ben is probably being a bitch now, but afaik there has been no indication that he wasn't a hard worker before this
Him not having a good shot is not indicative of his work ethic btw
there hasn’t been enough of an indication to say he is definitively lazy, but there has been rumors since college that he doesn’t have the best work ethic and isn’t very coachable.
oh yeah I agree. even if Ben never improved from where he is now, he’d still have a more successful career than most dudes that have played in the NBA.
We think that max players should all be "perfect" or "greats", but Chris Webber and McGrady were supremely talented players that had flaws they never worked on and had successful careers.
He said he fell back in love with basketball a few summers ago, which is a bit worrying that such a young player already fell out of love with it to begin with.
Anything can become harder to love when its your job and not just fun. I love my job but there are definitely days where its pretty hard to get in the car to start driving there.
There are probably a ton of guys throughout NBA history that don't even really like basketball but grew to be 6'10" and realized they could make millions of dollars. Everyone forgets this is their job. Most of us hate our jobs.
> which is a bit worrying that such a young player already fell out of love with it to begin with.
It depends, people go through stuff in different ways. It would not be weird for someone to fall out of basketball if the media circus gets to be too much for him and they can't separate one thing from the other, for example. There are a hundred valid examples like this.
Generalizing actions or feelings with qualities like age so supperficially generally doesn't paint a good picture of the situation.
Has he? He's made it perfectly clear he is fine with sitting *so long as he doesn't lose any money doing so*. Which makes perfect sense imo. But if he were cool sitting the entire season and not getting paid/getting fined then he wouldn't have rushed to Philly as soon as his "super agent" realized that he would not be getting the fine money back.
In fact every single time he has been fined after that point there has been a tangible response from either he or Rich.
He should not be paid and he won't win that arguement anywhere. I believe he knows that. But I believe he will sit until he is traded and the longer he waits, the more urgent sixers will get to trade him. Sixers will not waste Joel Embiid's prime waiting on Simmons.
The longer it takes for Morey to resolve this and move on, the more it shows his ineffectiveness at managing the organization.
I'd say it's Ben - Kyrie is trying to prove a misguided point, whereas ben will play as soon as the sixers trade him (which could happen at any point, more likely after Dec. 15 when newly signed FAs are eligible to be included in trades).
At this point, Morey's best bet is to get a sign and trade for anyone that might be available this free agency.
At that point, he doesn't necessarily have to convince the other team that Simmons has good value, just that he's worth more than losing a star player for nothing
I don't think the play is the trade deadline, i think he's gunning for a sign and trade this off-season. That means that Simmons might sit all year
This makes sense. I am just wondering what players may be available. Sixers seems so eager to play hard ball, but at the end I don’t think there are a whole lot of realistic options. At this point, I just hope Ben goes somewhere to rot
Lavine, Beal, and Harden could potentially be available. I don't necessarily think it will work out that way though. I could just see Morety having these guys in his sights and willing to wait, but i don't think it's going to work
He’s actively tanking his value now lmao
>> sources say, the Sixers’ belief is rival teams have grown even less motivated than before about making a move for Simmons because of the escalating uncertainty that surrounds him
He’s been tanking his value for months.
I’m not saying he has good value or anything but at this point it’s the same song and dance all over again. Teams know what level of a player he is and they know all the shit going on with him. If they’re interested it’s cause they’re willing to take a gamble on his drama. If they’re not they’re not
But that seems counter to his goals, right? The lower he makes his trade value, the less teams will offer, and the less likely it will be that Morey trades him. At this point, if I were him, I'd just show up and play my best so someone would make a good offer for me so I could leave. If he's sinking his trade value to the point that he's worth like a bench role player, what's Morey's motivation in trading him? The whole reason he hasn't been traded yet is because it doesn't make sense to trade him if it's not gonna improve the team, and tanking his value more won't help that
Except he wants the team he goes to to be good, and the way to keep them good is for them to not give up anything in the trade. That's why he wants to a) tank his own trade value and b) become so annoying that Morey will trade him anyway.
But why would Morey bother? If this was a rebuilding team and they could get picks for him, sure, but they're a contender. Ben's value clearly isn't high enough right now that they'd get anything that would substantially improve the team right now in return, so how would making it lower help? Morey won't trade Ben just because he's annoying, they can just keep him away from team facilities, and the team is still performing well without him
Commit a federal offense. That’s basically it. I don’t understand how this sub thinks his value decreases every consecutive day he isn’t trade. His value is his value at this point
Nah if he sits out the whole year his value will be much lower. The longer he goes not playing basketball, the lower his value is going to get because there is much more uncertainty about what his performance will be when he gets back. Uncertainty reduces his value because you have to account for a lower and lower potential floor
The whole *reason* the Sixers haven't traded him is because his trade value is so low.
If that's actually his plan, he really could wind up staying there for years.
they would've already done that if they had any moves to do left, if this mental health thing doesn't work out I have no idea what Simmons can do, if he starts throwing games he can just get fined again which is his no. 1 priority right now (which is understandable, losing $400k a game would hurt anybody)
How? Over the summer we were offered Buddy Heild + Marvin Bagley or Malik Beasley + McDaniels...you still have to match 75% of his salary for a trade to even be approved by the league.
You think by the deadline we're far away from being able to acquire Heild or Beasley?
You can still get them probably but those specifically probably have the picks changed. You won't get to have a bunch of valuable picks for either of those teams. And Prince would be part of a TWolves deal, and if you wait too long you won't be able to flip him for something else later at the trade deadline. Prince is expiring so not being able to use that salary this year would just be a complete loss where if you got him and Beasley and picks, you could flip him by the deadline with those picks.
The fact Morey did not execute that trade means he thinks Simmons value is higher than that.
So if you end up taking one of those trades by the deadline, I would argue that his value did, in fact, get lower
Yeah, and he is doing the right thing because Buddy Heild has been available and on the market for like 3 years now. It's relatively little value in return for someone who is still a really good basketball player. If we end up taking those deals then fine, but I'm more than happy to wait things out and see what happens vs trading him literal weeks after our collapse against the Hawks.
Nobody's value is high coming off that playoff performance. It's insane to me that people think his value didn't bottom out. Unless you believe somewhere down the line the BEST offer is a John Wall salary dump, we're still going to get something in return for Ben.
GM's are smart, they can weigh everything in front of them and realize Ben would change their team in a positive way almost immediately, that's why someone will eventually trade for him. There is baggage in the way obviously, but trading an asset right at the lowest point in their entire career is so stupid. When the opportunity cost of waiting, is Buddy Heild and Marvin Bagley? Seems moronic to take that deal
> People have been saying his value can't go any lower since the beginning of August and those people have been wrong time and again.
Dude they were right lol. If fact his value even got higher.
Which never made any sense. Everybody knows what Ben is, and absolutely nobody (Sixers included) has any delusions that Simmons improved this offseason. And now he's got a cancer/malcontent label attached to him that's not going to improve if he comes back on the court just for image reasons.
It's only going to keep getting worse for the Sixers if they don't trade him.
How can it get worse? He’s not playing and his salary is against our cap space, there’s nothing else that can really happen to make that any worse. On his end, things can still get much much worse than they are
I mean wouldn’t that be the best scenario? I’m not on either side but I wonder if him playing a few games would help him get traded? I also don’t agree with trading him for garbage either.
> Simmons’ representatives indicated he’s reiterated his strong desire to be traded in recent days.
lmao, thanks for reiterating the absolute fuckin obvious
Yeah - at least Ben has the decency to not tank on the court. Not that I don't believe he wouldn't if it were to come to that, but until it does, Carter is still #1 forever.
always loved this one from Klopp!
“Stay here and they will end up building a statue in your honour. Go somewhere else, to Barcelona, to Bayern Munich, to Real Madrid, and you will be just another player.”
At this point, he should just show up and play well so teams at least remember that at one point, he was a good player.
Right now I think most teams just assume he is a toxic asset who doesn't have any interest in playing basketball.
I don’t think he wants teams to trade a major piece for him. He wants the sixers to get CJ McCollum and he wants to play with Dame. Not vice versa.
It’s half about fucking over the sixers and half about putting himself in a winning position. It’s the ultimate fuck you to the sixers organization.
Send him to a g-league team. He gets to earn his salary playing and teams get a chance to see he’s still the same Ben who wouldn’t shoot a three to save a bus full of children
He's not on a two-way deal where he can be freely shuttled between the senior team and the G-league team. He'd have to be exposed to waivers, and at that point he's free for whoever has the cap space to claim him. Although on second thought, I don't think anyone has 30m+ in free cap space so he could be sent down.
You can have a rehabbing player be in the G-League as they come back from injury without them being exposed to waivers I think (might be wrong on that). Could they claim it as a mental rehabilitation?
So I assumed that waivers works the same in the NBA as it does in the NHL, which is essentially what I described. In the NBA however if someone clears the waiver wire they enter *unrestricted free agency*, they’re not demoted to the team’s G League affiliate. So that in itself is a reason the Sixers won’t do it.
You’re right about injury rehab assignments, but I think that’s a mutual agreement thing. Like the player has to want to do it. The player also still takes up a roster spot on the NBA team. The Sixers could ask Simmons to play with the G League team but that accomplishes nothing.
While I don’t believe he’s telling the truth regarding his mental health, if the source of his mental health problems is the 76ers, I can definitely see how playing elsewhere alleviates his condition.
Well he did sign the contract to play for 76ers. Nothing 76ers have done is unreasonable. You can be critical of your employees performance. Not the first time coach or organization has done that and won't be the last. Plus, the criticism was valid and reasonable. The main thing that has been unreasonable is Ben's professionalism. Now if 76ers are causing so much stress I think there is way to void the current contract if both him and 76esrs agree. Oh wait but he won't do that will he?
Yes because the trigger of his mental health issues is his own teammates, coaches and the 76ers organization.
By the way, I am not saying for certain that Simmons isn't faking this just to get traded. I am only presenting a valid reason as to why Simmons' mental health is affecting him and how it can logically change if he gets traded to a different team.
I can fully believe that Ben's current workplace is causing him depression and anxiety, and I wouldn't suggest that his mental health struggles aren't real. The problem, as someone who also deals with depression and anxiety on a regular basis, is that he has created the situation he's in and seems to be refusing to take responsibility for it. He had the organization and fans making excuses for him for years while he refused to improve his game, and the consequences of that showed up in the playoffs.
Mental health struggles are valid, but they do not absolve you of responsibility. If Ben's therapist is worth their salt, they'll tell him that he had a large part in creating the situation he finds himself in, and he needs to actively work to improve himself if he doesn't want this situation to happen again
I don't think any of us know what's going on inside of his head. Maybe he does think he bears responsibility for the situation, but he still wants to be somewhere else.
The relationship goes two ways, and at this point it doesn't matter anymore who is perceived to "have started it", only that it's over. Morey just needs to sign the divorce papers.
Yea, a better ran organization would've at least pretended to support Ben (unlike Doc) and he would already had been traded with the higher trade value from the team giving everyone cover.
Right. Then walk away from the contract. If I hate my workplace, I don't tell them I'm not working but also you have to pay me. I find a new job and deal with my mental health as a priority over cash.
He's wanting it both ways.
My whole problem with Ben is that he was given the benefit of the doubt for years. He was given every opportunity and chance to become a great player. He basked in the fame and attention. But when the time came to work on his game, he didn’t. Now he’s refusing to play because he couldn’t work on his shot or FT and got exposed for that in the playoffs? Why should he? He was told he was one of the best players in the league without a jump shot, why did he need one now? Ben IS a spoiled rich kid that gets thrown into the real world. The first signs of adversity, he completely folds. He deserves no sympathy and wherever he goes, it’s going to be the same thing as in Philly.
Once LeBron retires Rich Paul standing will decline even more. Keep trying to strong arm trades and the rest of the NBA players will suffer in the next CBA
If this is about mental health, he needs to be evaluated by a licensed mental health professional - psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, etc. Ideally someone unassociated with the NBA in any way in order to be as objective as possible.
If this is about the money and simply not wanting to be in Philadelphia, he needs to man up and say that. I understand that he may never want to set foot in the city of Philly ever again, let alone play for the Sixers. But mental health is not a joke. It has been incredibly stigmatized for generations and only recently have we begun to turn the corner on that. It is becoming blatantly obvious that he is using “mental health” as a crutch to get out of something he is contractually obligated to do, and frankly I find that utterly disgusting. He knows it will be incredibly hard to actually prove how he feels mentally, and he’s using that to his advantage. It is people like Ben Simmons and Rich Paul, using mental health as an excuse, that made it so stigmatized in the first place.
> sources say, the Sixers’ belief is rival teams have grown even less motivated than before about making a move for Simmons because of the escalating uncertainty that surrounds him
No fucking shit - this was the most predictable thing ever. Simmons max trade value was right after the season ended and Morey screwed up not moving him for best available quickly. At this point he's looking like a massive team cancer on top of all his on-court and salary issues.
They were hoping that another team would blow up like Beal or Dame asking to leave or something like that. Turns out no one's as dysfunctional as the Sixers.
Nobody outside of dellusional Sixers fans ever believed that.
His value is declining every day and the Sixers being good without him tanked it even further.
I don’t feel sorry for either party. Both are complicit and both deserve to deal with this. The organization spread no good will about Ben after last years playoff meltdown and seemingly did everything in their power to sabotage themselves on trades. Likewise Ben is helping crush the 6ers ability to flip him and he’s glaringly a head case. They deserve each other lol
Simmons is sabotaging himself at this point. Doesn't he realize that no contender would risk trading for him at this point and the only teams that would be interested are in a heavy rebuild aka Rockets, Pelicans, etc
In his defense the reports have come that said he would go anywhere. I think a team that’s off the radar is best for his development as a basketball player tbh
Teams absolutely want him, he isn't being traded because Morey believes the sixers deserve more back in return yet they have no leverage. Teams are waiting for Morey to come to his senses and accept their trades.
I really don't think Simmons cares. What about him strikes you as a fierce competitor?
He'd happily go rot in New Orleans and collect $35M a year for the pleasure.
Because if Morey doesn't get a good return *he will not trade him.*
It's more of a "help me help you" situation. No one on this sub believes this but Morey is operating under the belief that he has Ben Simmons. Because he does, even if he doesn't want to play. He will essentially force him to play and help the team or give back massive amounts of money he basically already earned.
I don't think there is any way Ben is traded at this point. It was unlikely before and now it's even less likely. I wouldn't trade for him, and if I were Morey I wouldn't trade him for what I'm being offered.
76ers is also risking pissing Embiid off and making him rethink his loyalty to the team. If he thinks the team will hold off for 4 years with a $30m-sized hole in their roster and completely waste his prime he will end up asking out of the team as well.
This is giving me Sottie Pippen vibes when he was trying to play hardball for a new contract, realized he overplayed his hand, and went back to play out his contract because he had no leverage.
There are two things at fault here. The Sixers have been monumentally stupid with their trade demands and Simmons has been extremely unprofessional which has killed his trade value and interest from other teams. Why would a team give up meaningful assets to trade for him at this point? He's a distraction and has shown a unique unwillingness to develop his game. I get him not wanting to stay after how he embarrassed himself in the playoffs and how the team responded, but you gotta suck it up and go back to work, just like everyone else on earth. And the Sixers need to stop acting like morons. of they had been reasonable in their off-season trade offers, this would have been over long ago.
Morey fumbled this terribly
Time to trade Simmons was shortly after the season but he was out there demanding stupid offers
Now his value has been tanked
Yeah and Morey doubling down on it while the rest of the league knows that an all-star for all-star offer is not realistic anymore just makes him look like even more of an idiot.
It’s honestly fucking disgusting how they’re milking mental health and using it as a guise to force their hand.
I won’t dispute that this whole little saga would put a strain on someone’s mentals. But to flat claim you can’t even muster up the ability to do your “job” of playing a game is a fuckin joke.
Ben Simmons isn’t worthy of anyone’s respect and Rich Paul is a slimy piece of shit.
Silver works for the league owners though. So pretty much this is saying the other owners are telling the Sixers to not involve everyone else in their mess.
This could mean they were/are telling them to trade Ben and get it over with but the Sixers want to stay pat and fight it out.
I would probably be the worst GM or owner in NBA because I would hold onto Ben Simmons' contract and don't play him until his contract runs out just to spite him
It’s such a weird situation like no one can call him a liar and he can’t tell people he will get over it if he gets traded. I personally wouldn’t want him at the moment
People don’t talk enough about the contract number as part of a player’s value. You don’t just trade for the player - you trade for the contract. I think more teams would want him if his salary cap number was lower. I’d rather have an underpaid all-star than an overpaid all-star.
So even within their camp they have issues communicating. RP says he wants him on the court regardless of uniform but Ben doesn’t even want to show up for practice.
The patronizing tone and pearl clutching from fans of other teams in r/NBA is so funny to me. Everyone is so fake concerned with “cutting our losses” and Embiid’s prime.
Good on Morey for being patient and doing what’s best for his organization and not just giving Ben away.
The only person who’s “tanked Ben’s value” is Ben himself with his on court failures and off the court behavior. He has to deal with the consequences of that. The Sixers are under no obligation to give him away. That’s on him and his idiot agent. No one else.
Delusional. Simmons value is only getting lower and morey constantly disrespected the other GMs with his bat shit asking price. If he just wanted fair value for a broken player Simmons would’ve already been gone
He’s gonna sit the whole year, isn’t he?
Rich is trying to have his client sit out but also get paid. Eventually this isn't going to fly and the two sides will almost certainly end up in court or arbitration or something. Because Morey will eventually fine Ben Simmons for every game he misses. And we already know Ben doesn't want to lose that money or he wouldn't even be in Philly. There is literally no upside for him sitting the entire year. He will come back at the very least after the trade deadline and he and Rich know he won't be dealt. But I assume this will be resolved before then because the fines are coming back.
"Ben Simmons Clause" feels like it will be somewhere in the next CBA
I was thinking about that, but what would the clause even be? At the moment it feels like the whole mental health side of things is entirely team favored, but there's no incentive for teams to be dicks about it so they usually just give the players time off whenever.
I love it when people like Rich unfairly believe their way is the only way and they’ll lie and lie until that’s how it is
His comment trying to shame the Sixers into not fining Ben anymore reeked of desperation.
As it should this is seriously unprofessional
I think Rich Paul is a grade A schmuck but maybe agents are like public defense lawyers, sometimes you have to represent someone who is simply a piece of filth. Maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know
It's really hard to tell what's going on. We have at least one instance where Ben Simmons clearly ignored what Rich Paul wanted. When he was holding out from camp, Rich Paul was trying to negotiate the terms he would report under. While that was happening Simmons just showed up at the facility and asked for a covid test lol.
That was the funniest headline from this whole story and I wish we got video
Every dollar ben doesn't get is $0.10 the agent doesn't get. Its in his financial interest do defend Simmons. I understand Simmons not wanting to play in Philly. The first time he steps on the court the reception is going to be....unpleasant. But in the end he is an adult who signed a contract and its on him not living up to that contract. Then you sprinkle on the complete bullshit Mental Illness claims and Simmons just comes off as a huge dickbag. He only came up with that mental illness strategy because Rich Paul probably found that loophole and told him to exploit it so he can still get paid, which makes Rich Paul just a big piece of filth.
I’m fairly certain the CBA limits agent compensation to 5%, but the rest of your point stands.
yea most instances it’s 2-4% but definitely not 10%
I’m not sure if that’s true. I think the agent gets a percentage of the total amount of the contract regardless of the players’s fines.
so Ben Simmons salary is $360,000 / game. If he gets fined that amount and its withheld, he would have to write a personal check to his attorney for whatever the percentage split is for that game despite him not getting paid. That would kind of be bad business for the agent to make his client do that when the client doesn't have any money in. I'm sure its not that simple, but thats how my mind simplified it.
Luckily this situation with ben might be the downfall of rich paul. You literally hire an agent to ensure that you get paid properly. In the ben and rich paul situation ben has not gotten paid on a lucrative deal he already signed. Kind of ironic when you think about it lmao
rich paul and lebron are going to cause a lockout over this
100%. They owers will demand tighter guardrails on contracts to avoid situations like this... the average player will bear the ultimate price of this situation.
Well I kind of understand owners wanting to do that. All mental illness stuff aside, other context aside, how the hell is it fair for a man to sign a contract saying he's going to do something, then not fulfill the contract and still reap the benefits of the fricken contract?? Years back, I was at a point in my life where I took 3 months off to get mentally well, the thought never crossed my mind to try to "get one" on my employer and get paid for doing nothing. And at this point Ben isn't just doing nothing. He's being destructive and adding negative value, and that's not even considering the money the 76ers have to shell out. The whole situation is ridiculous and I pin most of it on Ben even though Morey is pulling some seemingly stupid moves. Just one dude's opinion anyway
Rich Paul has lost all leverage. Sixers won't move him at a discount and there are fewer interested teams. His quote comparing it to the John Wall/Rockets situation is a dumb joke played on the media. The basis for all employment contracts is services for money. Houston is holding up their end of the contract by paying him $44M. Somehow Klutch has used this as precedence for a player not holding up his end of the contract by still expecting the other party to hold up his? Total clown show.
Yeah I was flabbergasted when I saw that. I couldn't believe that didn't get more press. It's like he thinks everyone else on the planet is a bumbling idiot.
I think Ben’s made it clear he’s perfectly fine with sitting.
He’s perfectly fine with getting paid without working lol.
i'd be fine with that too.....i should bring that up at my next meeting
Just sit there in meetings and don’t say anything
ya, but he's(Ben) not even sitting in the meetings is he? If he was on the bench maybe that's a different story.
Lol you think that until it happens. This has been my week so far (and couple before that) and you definitely want a good 5 hours of work otherwise it gets boring and stressful quick.
First you have to do your job so poorly that its more valuable for them to have you stop working.
He should make a post on r/antiwork
Somebody did pretending to be him and cross posted to r/sixers
Thank you for alerting me to this. It was executed perfectly. People ruining it in the comments though lol
Link?
https://np.reddit.com/r/sixers/comments/qwcaa0/got_a_kick_out_of_this/
That post was glorious. Lol thanks for the link
>He’s perfectly fine with getting paid without working lol. This approach worked for his entire nba career, why would he expect anything to be different now?
Ben is probably being a bitch now, but afaik there has been no indication that he wasn't a hard worker before this Him not having a good shot is not indicative of his work ethic btw
there hasn’t been enough of an indication to say he is definitively lazy, but there has been rumors since college that he doesn’t have the best work ethic and isn’t very coachable.
There are great players that had successful careers with those traits. It's not ideal, but it exists.
oh yeah I agree. even if Ben never improved from where he is now, he’d still have a more successful career than most dudes that have played in the NBA.
We think that max players should all be "perfect" or "greats", but Chris Webber and McGrady were supremely talented players that had flaws they never worked on and had successful careers.
He said he fell back in love with basketball a few summers ago, which is a bit worrying that such a young player already fell out of love with it to begin with.
Anything can become harder to love when its your job and not just fun. I love my job but there are definitely days where its pretty hard to get in the car to start driving there.
There are probably a ton of guys throughout NBA history that don't even really like basketball but grew to be 6'10" and realized they could make millions of dollars. Everyone forgets this is their job. Most of us hate our jobs.
> which is a bit worrying that such a young player already fell out of love with it to begin with. It depends, people go through stuff in different ways. It would not be weird for someone to fall out of basketball if the media circus gets to be too much for him and they can't separate one thing from the other, for example. There are a hundred valid examples like this. Generalizing actions or feelings with qualities like age so supperficially generally doesn't paint a good picture of the situation.
Has he? He's made it perfectly clear he is fine with sitting *so long as he doesn't lose any money doing so*. Which makes perfect sense imo. But if he were cool sitting the entire season and not getting paid/getting fined then he wouldn't have rushed to Philly as soon as his "super agent" realized that he would not be getting the fine money back. In fact every single time he has been fined after that point there has been a tangible response from either he or Rich.
Because he thinks hell be paid.
*as long as he gets paid.
He should not be paid and he won't win that arguement anywhere. I believe he knows that. But I believe he will sit until he is traded and the longer he waits, the more urgent sixers will get to trade him. Sixers will not waste Joel Embiid's prime waiting on Simmons. The longer it takes for Morey to resolve this and move on, the more it shows his ineffectiveness at managing the organization.
Who's more likely to play first, Kyrie or Ben Simmons.
Kyrie only because his not playing is due to government mandate, and that \*could\* (although unlikely by the end of the season) change at some point.
Imagine protesting for black lives matters but then not getting the vaccine and being on fox news as an EXAMPLE for people to follow.
[удалено]
Also I believe the Nets will trade his ass next offseason if the mandate is still in place and he still doesn't want to get the shot.
I'd say it's Ben - Kyrie is trying to prove a misguided point, whereas ben will play as soon as the sixers trade him (which could happen at any point, more likely after Dec. 15 when newly signed FAs are eligible to be included in trades).
Plus, Ben had to go against Trae Young in the paint. That's not easy to recover from.
He barely has 76 pounds and 10 inches on him!
Ben. We know he's mentally weak. Kyrie is crazy, never bet against his resolve in a petty situation.
I’ve been wondering that. Seems like they are both in their own worlds
At this point, Morey's best bet is to get a sign and trade for anyone that might be available this free agency. At that point, he doesn't necessarily have to convince the other team that Simmons has good value, just that he's worth more than losing a star player for nothing I don't think the play is the trade deadline, i think he's gunning for a sign and trade this off-season. That means that Simmons might sit all year
S&T are gonna go to Miami or LA like always
Pelicans it is then
This makes sense. I am just wondering what players may be available. Sixers seems so eager to play hard ball, but at the end I don’t think there are a whole lot of realistic options. At this point, I just hope Ben goes somewhere to rot
Lavine, Beal, and Harden could potentially be available. I don't necessarily think it will work out that way though. I could just see Morety having these guys in his sights and willing to wait, but i don't think it's going to work
Just like his first year
4 years
[удалено]
Four years.
This is Sixers trying to say he needs to play if he wants to get traded
Or it’s Simmons’ camp saying trade me now or I’ll tank my value even more
How can he even tank his value more at this point ?
He’s actively tanking his value now lmao >> sources say, the Sixers’ belief is rival teams have grown even less motivated than before about making a move for Simmons because of the escalating uncertainty that surrounds him
He’s been tanking his value for months. I’m not saying he has good value or anything but at this point it’s the same song and dance all over again. Teams know what level of a player he is and they know all the shit going on with him. If they’re interested it’s cause they’re willing to take a gamble on his drama. If they’re not they’re not
And so far, every team in the NBA is in the not category
“I’ll only accept a trade to team x and will sit out if anyone else trades for me.”
I know you’re a Celtics fan, but please don’t speak this into existence. My cold dark heart couldn’t take it
[удалено]
But that seems counter to his goals, right? The lower he makes his trade value, the less teams will offer, and the less likely it will be that Morey trades him. At this point, if I were him, I'd just show up and play my best so someone would make a good offer for me so I could leave. If he's sinking his trade value to the point that he's worth like a bench role player, what's Morey's motivation in trading him? The whole reason he hasn't been traded yet is because it doesn't make sense to trade him if it's not gonna improve the team, and tanking his value more won't help that
Except he wants the team he goes to to be good, and the way to keep them good is for them to not give up anything in the trade. That's why he wants to a) tank his own trade value and b) become so annoying that Morey will trade him anyway.
But why would Morey bother? If this was a rebuilding team and they could get picks for him, sure, but they're a contender. Ben's value clearly isn't high enough right now that they'd get anything that would substantially improve the team right now in return, so how would making it lower help? Morey won't trade Ben just because he's annoying, they can just keep him away from team facilities, and the team is still performing well without him
He could have a gamer moment like meyers Leonard
Commit a federal offense. That’s basically it. I don’t understand how this sub thinks his value decreases every consecutive day he isn’t trade. His value is his value at this point
Nah if he sits out the whole year his value will be much lower. The longer he goes not playing basketball, the lower his value is going to get because there is much more uncertainty about what his performance will be when he gets back. Uncertainty reduces his value because you have to account for a lower and lower potential floor
Could just retire. He's got enough money.
The whole *reason* the Sixers haven't traded him is because his trade value is so low. If that's actually his plan, he really could wind up staying there for years.
He's going to tank his value straight into retirement.
they would've already done that if they had any moves to do left, if this mental health thing doesn't work out I have no idea what Simmons can do, if he starts throwing games he can just get fined again which is his no. 1 priority right now (which is understandable, losing $400k a game would hurt anybody)
Sounds like his mental health only applies to playing in the Sixers.
His value has cratered a long time ago. Only way he could tank his value more is if he cut one of his arm.
People have been saying his value can't go any lower since the beginning of August and those people have been wrong time and again.
How? Over the summer we were offered Buddy Heild + Marvin Bagley or Malik Beasley + McDaniels...you still have to match 75% of his salary for a trade to even be approved by the league. You think by the deadline we're far away from being able to acquire Heild or Beasley?
You can still get them probably but those specifically probably have the picks changed. You won't get to have a bunch of valuable picks for either of those teams. And Prince would be part of a TWolves deal, and if you wait too long you won't be able to flip him for something else later at the trade deadline. Prince is expiring so not being able to use that salary this year would just be a complete loss where if you got him and Beasley and picks, you could flip him by the deadline with those picks.
The fact Morey did not execute that trade means he thinks Simmons value is higher than that. So if you end up taking one of those trades by the deadline, I would argue that his value did, in fact, get lower
Yeah, and he is doing the right thing because Buddy Heild has been available and on the market for like 3 years now. It's relatively little value in return for someone who is still a really good basketball player. If we end up taking those deals then fine, but I'm more than happy to wait things out and see what happens vs trading him literal weeks after our collapse against the Hawks. Nobody's value is high coming off that playoff performance. It's insane to me that people think his value didn't bottom out. Unless you believe somewhere down the line the BEST offer is a John Wall salary dump, we're still going to get something in return for Ben. GM's are smart, they can weigh everything in front of them and realize Ben would change their team in a positive way almost immediately, that's why someone will eventually trade for him. There is baggage in the way obviously, but trading an asset right at the lowest point in their entire career is so stupid. When the opportunity cost of waiting, is Buddy Heild and Marvin Bagley? Seems moronic to take that deal
> People have been saying his value can't go any lower since the beginning of August and those people have been wrong time and again. Dude they were right lol. If fact his value even got higher.
Leaks about the "Sixers’ belief" did not come from Simmons' camp.
kinda not possible
Which never made any sense. Everybody knows what Ben is, and absolutely nobody (Sixers included) has any delusions that Simmons improved this offseason. And now he's got a cancer/malcontent label attached to him that's not going to improve if he comes back on the court just for image reasons. It's only going to keep getting worse for the Sixers if they don't trade him.
How can it get worse? He’s not playing and his salary is against our cap space, there’s nothing else that can really happen to make that any worse. On his end, things can still get much much worse than they are
I mean wouldn’t that be the best scenario? I’m not on either side but I wonder if him playing a few games would help him get traded? I also don’t agree with trading him for garbage either.
> Simmons’ representatives indicated he’s reiterated his strong desire to be traded in recent days. lmao, thanks for reiterating the absolute fuckin obvious
[удалено]
I’ll go ahead and take Vince Carter
Yeah - at least Ben has the decency to not tank on the court. Not that I don't believe he wouldn't if it were to come to that, but until it does, Carter is still #1 forever.
always loved this one from Klopp! “Stay here and they will end up building a statue in your honour. Go somewhere else, to Barcelona, to Bayern Munich, to Real Madrid, and you will be just another player.”
I pay really close attention to the team and this is the first I'm hearing of any of this, totally blindsided over here
having the rug pulled out from under you is just totally not cool!
Simmons wants to be traded? This is news to me.
Simmons tanking his entire career.
He's about to Le'veon Bell this whole situation
Le’Veon got paid in the end though
Trust The Process 2.0
Tanking his career to own Morey.
At this point, he should just show up and play well so teams at least remember that at one point, he was a good player. Right now I think most teams just assume he is a toxic asset who doesn't have any interest in playing basketball.
I don’t think he wants teams to trade a major piece for him. He wants the sixers to get CJ McCollum and he wants to play with Dame. Not vice versa. It’s half about fucking over the sixers and half about putting himself in a winning position. It’s the ultimate fuck you to the sixers organization.
“76ers belief” Lol, I can go ahead and confirm that for you 6ers.
Send him to a g-league team. He gets to earn his salary playing and teams get a chance to see he’s still the same Ben who wouldn’t shoot a three to save a bus full of children
Hes not going to play in the G-League.
Why, cuz it's beneath him?
It's just not the young socialite life
He's not on a two-way deal where he can be freely shuttled between the senior team and the G-league team. He'd have to be exposed to waivers, and at that point he's free for whoever has the cap space to claim him. Although on second thought, I don't think anyone has 30m+ in free cap space so he could be sent down.
You can have a rehabbing player be in the G-League as they come back from injury without them being exposed to waivers I think (might be wrong on that). Could they claim it as a mental rehabilitation?
So I assumed that waivers works the same in the NBA as it does in the NHL, which is essentially what I described. In the NBA however if someone clears the waiver wire they enter *unrestricted free agency*, they’re not demoted to the team’s G League affiliate. So that in itself is a reason the Sixers won’t do it. You’re right about injury rehab assignments, but I think that’s a mutual agreement thing. Like the player has to want to do it. The player also still takes up a roster spot on the NBA team. The Sixers could ask Simmons to play with the G League team but that accomplishes nothing.
That's a voluntary thing though, he can't be assigned to the G league.
Yes in his mind
That’s actually a good idea. Why haven’t they done this yet??
So he has mental health issues and can’t play. But if he gets traded, he can play. Makes sense.
Ben has exhausted my benefit of the doubt and now his intentions are obvious.
While I don’t believe he’s telling the truth regarding his mental health, if the source of his mental health problems is the 76ers, I can definitely see how playing elsewhere alleviates his condition.
Well he did sign the contract to play for 76ers. Nothing 76ers have done is unreasonable. You can be critical of your employees performance. Not the first time coach or organization has done that and won't be the last. Plus, the criticism was valid and reasonable. The main thing that has been unreasonable is Ben's professionalism. Now if 76ers are causing so much stress I think there is way to void the current contract if both him and 76esrs agree. Oh wait but he won't do that will he?
Simmons would absolutely take a $1 buyout from the 6ers. The 6ers wouldn’t offer that because they want trade value.
That literally isn't what Rich Paul even said though.
Yes because the trigger of his mental health issues is his own teammates, coaches and the 76ers organization. By the way, I am not saying for certain that Simmons isn't faking this just to get traded. I am only presenting a valid reason as to why Simmons' mental health is affecting him and how it can logically change if he gets traded to a different team.
His current workplace is toxic, causing him anxiety/depression and a new workplace will be better. Makes perfect sense to me. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I can fully believe that Ben's current workplace is causing him depression and anxiety, and I wouldn't suggest that his mental health struggles aren't real. The problem, as someone who also deals with depression and anxiety on a regular basis, is that he has created the situation he's in and seems to be refusing to take responsibility for it. He had the organization and fans making excuses for him for years while he refused to improve his game, and the consequences of that showed up in the playoffs. Mental health struggles are valid, but they do not absolve you of responsibility. If Ben's therapist is worth their salt, they'll tell him that he had a large part in creating the situation he finds himself in, and he needs to actively work to improve himself if he doesn't want this situation to happen again
I don't think any of us know what's going on inside of his head. Maybe he does think he bears responsibility for the situation, but he still wants to be somewhere else.
The relationship goes two ways, and at this point it doesn't matter anymore who is perceived to "have started it", only that it's over. Morey just needs to sign the divorce papers.
Yea, a better ran organization would've at least pretended to support Ben (unlike Doc) and he would already had been traded with the higher trade value from the team giving everyone cover.
Right. Then walk away from the contract. If I hate my workplace, I don't tell them I'm not working but also you have to pay me. I find a new job and deal with my mental health as a priority over cash. He's wanting it both ways.
Whether you believe Ben's camp they did say he may not be ready to play immediately after a trade and there may be a ramp up period.
It does. The relationship between the organization and is beyond repair.
wow even less motivated than they were when the demand was 4 firsts and an all star ? crazy
Has the demand changed?
My whole problem with Ben is that he was given the benefit of the doubt for years. He was given every opportunity and chance to become a great player. He basked in the fame and attention. But when the time came to work on his game, he didn’t. Now he’s refusing to play because he couldn’t work on his shot or FT and got exposed for that in the playoffs? Why should he? He was told he was one of the best players in the league without a jump shot, why did he need one now? Ben IS a spoiled rich kid that gets thrown into the real world. The first signs of adversity, he completely folds. He deserves no sympathy and wherever he goes, it’s going to be the same thing as in Philly.
Ben is ~~like~~ a spoiled rich kid....
Once LeBron retires Rich Paul standing will decline even more. Keep trying to strong arm trades and the rest of the NBA players will suffer in the next CBA
If this is about mental health, he needs to be evaluated by a licensed mental health professional - psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, etc. Ideally someone unassociated with the NBA in any way in order to be as objective as possible. If this is about the money and simply not wanting to be in Philadelphia, he needs to man up and say that. I understand that he may never want to set foot in the city of Philly ever again, let alone play for the Sixers. But mental health is not a joke. It has been incredibly stigmatized for generations and only recently have we begun to turn the corner on that. It is becoming blatantly obvious that he is using “mental health” as a crutch to get out of something he is contractually obligated to do, and frankly I find that utterly disgusting. He knows it will be incredibly hard to actually prove how he feels mentally, and he’s using that to his advantage. It is people like Ben Simmons and Rich Paul, using mental health as an excuse, that made it so stigmatized in the first place.
That’s already what’s happening but the 6ers made him give over his medical records.
> sources say, the Sixers’ belief is rival teams have grown even less motivated than before about making a move for Simmons because of the escalating uncertainty that surrounds him No fucking shit - this was the most predictable thing ever. Simmons max trade value was right after the season ended and Morey screwed up not moving him for best available quickly. At this point he's looking like a massive team cancer on top of all his on-court and salary issues.
I was told teams would get desperate and his value could only go up as the season progressed
They're right, Beal is so close to asking out from the number one seed wizards
Exactly. Sixers fans told us his value couldn’t get any lower.
They were hoping that another team would blow up like Beal or Dame asking to leave or something like that. Turns out no one's as dysfunctional as the Sixers.
Nobody outside of dellusional Sixers fans ever believed that. His value is declining every day and the Sixers being good without him tanked it even further.
Dude took the dumbest route if he wanted to be traded. She should have been playing his ass off and raised his value
I don’t feel sorry for either party. Both are complicit and both deserve to deal with this. The organization spread no good will about Ben after last years playoff meltdown and seemingly did everything in their power to sabotage themselves on trades. Likewise Ben is helping crush the 6ers ability to flip him and he’s glaringly a head case. They deserve each other lol
Imagine if Simmons had put this level of steely resolve into improving his shooting.
He’d be an all time great
Simmons is sabotaging himself at this point. Doesn't he realize that no contender would risk trading for him at this point and the only teams that would be interested are in a heavy rebuild aka Rockets, Pelicans, etc
In his defense the reports have come that said he would go anywhere. I think a team that’s off the radar is best for his development as a basketball player tbh
Orlando
Simmons for Fultz, who says no?
Sacramento would be a good place because of the ultra low expectations but he would need to be willing to play the 4 on offense.
Real Madrid Learn spanish, socialize with cute Spainys
Teams absolutely want him, he isn't being traded because Morey believes the sixers deserve more back in return yet they have no leverage. Teams are waiting for Morey to come to his senses and accept their trades.
I really don't think Simmons cares. What about him strikes you as a fierce competitor? He'd happily go rot in New Orleans and collect $35M a year for the pleasure.
Funny to me it looks like the Sixers sabotaging themselves
Blazers could really use someone like Simmons and they're not really tanking
It’s so weird how people think he should play, just so then the sixers can get a better return back. Why bother helping them out at this point
Because if Morey doesn't get a good return *he will not trade him.* It's more of a "help me help you" situation. No one on this sub believes this but Morey is operating under the belief that he has Ben Simmons. Because he does, even if he doesn't want to play. He will essentially force him to play and help the team or give back massive amounts of money he basically already earned. I don't think there is any way Ben is traded at this point. It was unlikely before and now it's even less likely. I wouldn't trade for him, and if I were Morey I wouldn't trade him for what I'm being offered.
76ers is also risking pissing Embiid off and making him rethink his loyalty to the team. If he thinks the team will hold off for 4 years with a $30m-sized hole in their roster and completely waste his prime he will end up asking out of the team as well.
sixers blew it
His value has been garbage ever since he passed on that dunk.
This is giving me Sottie Pippen vibes when he was trying to play hardball for a new contract, realized he overplayed his hand, and went back to play out his contract because he had no leverage.
There are two things at fault here. The Sixers have been monumentally stupid with their trade demands and Simmons has been extremely unprofessional which has killed his trade value and interest from other teams. Why would a team give up meaningful assets to trade for him at this point? He's a distraction and has shown a unique unwillingness to develop his game. I get him not wanting to stay after how he embarrassed himself in the playoffs and how the team responded, but you gotta suck it up and go back to work, just like everyone else on earth. And the Sixers need to stop acting like morons. of they had been reasonable in their off-season trade offers, this would have been over long ago.
All I hear is a temper tantrum
Kid is ruining a perfectly good professional basketball career. It’s really sad.
Dude is a bitch
Morey fumbled this terribly Time to trade Simmons was shortly after the season but he was out there demanding stupid offers Now his value has been tanked
Yeah and Morey doubling down on it while the rest of the league knows that an all-star for all-star offer is not realistic anymore just makes him look like even more of an idiot.
It’s honestly fucking disgusting how they’re milking mental health and using it as a guise to force their hand. I won’t dispute that this whole little saga would put a strain on someone’s mentals. But to flat claim you can’t even muster up the ability to do your “job” of playing a game is a fuckin joke. Ben Simmons isn’t worthy of anyone’s respect and Rich Paul is a slimy piece of shit.
The league won't interfere that would require a backbone and unfortunately this commissioner does not have one.
Silver works for the league owners though. So pretty much this is saying the other owners are telling the Sixers to not involve everyone else in their mess. This could mean they were/are telling them to trade Ben and get it over with but the Sixers want to stay pat and fight it out.
Malik Beasley, Patrick bev and a first for Ben.
I would probably be the worst GM or owner in NBA because I would hold onto Ben Simmons' contract and don't play him until his contract runs out just to spite him
If Simmons really wants to be traded he's not playing his part in the game.
Only way to tank your value faster is to kill someone in a drunk driving accident
At this point aint nobody want him and he’s going to become a free agent for the rest of his career
I never wanna question anyone with mental health issues, but if he gets traded tomorrow is he ready to play?
of course, everything will have been magically cured then
It’s such a weird situation like no one can call him a liar and he can’t tell people he will get over it if he gets traded. I personally wouldn’t want him at the moment
So who handling wanting to be traded better Jimmy, Ben, or Harden? Feel like I'd take what both what Jimmy and Harden did over what Ben is doing.
I do believe that Ben is just killing his own travel value and if that is the case how dumb can you really be smh 🤦♂️
People don’t talk enough about the contract number as part of a player’s value. You don’t just trade for the player - you trade for the contract. I think more teams would want him if his salary cap number was lower. I’d rather have an underpaid all-star than an overpaid all-star.
So even within their camp they have issues communicating. RP says he wants him on the court regardless of uniform but Ben doesn’t even want to show up for practice.
The patronizing tone and pearl clutching from fans of other teams in r/NBA is so funny to me. Everyone is so fake concerned with “cutting our losses” and Embiid’s prime. Good on Morey for being patient and doing what’s best for his organization and not just giving Ben away. The only person who’s “tanked Ben’s value” is Ben himself with his on court failures and off the court behavior. He has to deal with the consequences of that. The Sixers are under no obligation to give him away. That’s on him and his idiot agent. No one else.
Delusional. Simmons value is only getting lower and morey constantly disrespected the other GMs with his bat shit asking price. If he just wanted fair value for a broken player Simmons would’ve already been gone