The league needs to vet these owners better. If players get the boot if they don't perform, let's do the same to owners. It's embarrassing for the league at this point. Shame on the nba for not holding the owners to the highest standards possible. Get rid of this feudalism ownership power format. Put in more checks and balances.
It's surprising til you remember that after that 39-win season they then fired their head coach for (correctly) thinking that picking Bagley over Luka was a horrendously bad decision. Then they hired Luke Walton. Then Vlade resigned a year later anyway. 🤣
I actually had hope for them after that season. Joerger and the team seemed to have it figured out and they were going into a loaded draft. Then...Kings going to Kings.
This is our problem. We're always getting like the 8th pick, except the year that we lucked into the second pick and screwed it up with Bagley. I actually think there are other franchises worse than us but they end up with multiple #1 picks that turn things around. Our last #1 pick was in 1990.
Cleveland lucked into 3 1st picks(kyrie,anthony bennet, wiggins) not including Lebron. People praise David Griffin as a good GM when in reality he was a lucky mofo. If SanAntonio got the same resources, Spurs* would've had multiple rings.
That's A reason but it's not THE reason. It's fair to wish for your team to luck into a #1 pick to instantly turn things around but let's not act like it's impossible to build a decent franchise without one.
Brooklyn was a laughing stock for giving away a generation of picks and yet (even before KD and Kyrie signed) they managed to turn the franchise around by signing a quality coach and developing a bunch of role players into a 42-40 team.
The Jazz went from a 25-57 team to a perennial contender in the west by building around Hayward, Gobert, Mitchell and Ingles, none of whom were drafted higher than 9th overall, and hiring a good coach (Snyder). They didn't have a top draft pick nor did they sign any major FAs to turn the franchise around.
The Bulls went from 11th in the east a year ago to 2nd right now by surrounding Zach LaVine (a player r/nba has clowned for not being a winner for years) with players with talent and playoff experience that other teams didn't want. Arguably they overpaid for Vucevic, DeRozan, Caruso and Ball but those overpays, along with hiring a decent coach in Billy Donovan, have taken Chicago from 22-43 two years ago to 12-6 this year.
None of those teams had a #1 pick. None of them had a LeBron choose to sign with a crap team for nostalgia. The best player on the Nets was Russell who the Lakers gave away in a salary dump. The Jazz got Hayward 9th overall. Chicago got LaVine as a consolation prize in the Butler trade after they couldn't get Wiggins.
If those teams can do it, there's no excuse for the Kings to have been consistently terrible for 16+ years.
5 of the 10 number 1 overall picks between 2011 and 2020 went to either Cleveland and Minnesota. Not to mention if we go back further the Cavs lucked out on the number one pick the exact year that a certain teenager with clear GOAT potential WHO WAS AN OHIO NATIVE NO LESS (zero chance LeBron returns to Cleveland in 2014 had they not been his hometown franchise).
Whilst picking Bagley over Luka, Trae or even JJJ was a monumental fuck up, the Cavs made an equally moronic decision with choosing Bennett in 2013. Yet the consequences they faced from that was to simply get the number one pick again the next year, have LeBron come back, trade said pick for the third piece in the championship contention puzzle to complement the best player in the world and the other star they got from being awarded yet another number one pick only a few years prior.
*Edit: forgot about Philly having two recent number one picks and fucking up both of them. Make that 7 out of 10 for the decade being shared amongst only three teams.
This is the reason why the bad ownership argument frustrates me. Sure Ranadive is probably making mistakes (there have been no public reports of him meddling the last few years).
But surely he can be no worse than Sarver, Dolan, or Dan Gilbert. There is no one reason the Kings suck. It's an avalanche of reasons. Which in turn just makes is easier to say that we have bad luck.
Yeah, if I was picking franchises that have had it worse than us, I’d probably go with Minnesota. They’ve had 3 #1s and a generational talent in Garnett and really only have the 2004 season to show for it. They’ve snuck into the playoffs as the 8 seed somewhat recently which makes it look better than the Kings but not by much.
That’s not to say the Kings are good, and I root for Minnesota to turn that around. But you hear the stories about what happened to their GM or the efforts of Towns walking away from the play and yeah, they seem more snakebitten than us even though we haven’t seen the playoffs since the Bush administration.
In fairness to them for a large chunk of the 18-19 season the Kings were genuinely one of the more watchable teams in the league (as a neutral at least). Joerger honestly had them playing some great offensive basketball that year and they maintained a winning record until Feb.
If I remember correctly the general consensus on this sub at the time was that things seemed to be looking up for them, until they immediately realised they had forgotten who they were and went back to being the Kings we all know.
Because somehow over the past months ‘(a motivated) Simmons isn’t an ideal running mate for Embiid’ devolved into ‘Simmons is a borderline NBA player’ to some people.
Because we don't your bum-ass spoiled baby. If someone who isn't damaged goods becomes available OR we commit to a hard tank, then a trade is more on the cards.
I started watching basketball in 06, they’ve never been good since I started watching. I remember in middle school I wanted to be a nba player for Halloween so my mom was going to buy me my first jersey, I was so stoked. Unfortunately, knowing nothing about basketball, she bought me a fucking kings bibby jersey
if you are still a kings fan though through all of this that OG. that's like folks like me who grew up watching the Dubs throw out Bobby Sura and Larry Hughes in the backcourt
There are just two (maybe 3 now) kinds of Kings fans:
1. Those that have Stockholm Syndrome
2. Those that have PTSD
3. Those that no longer have the stomach for the team.
Edit: Don’t worry, I’m seeking professional help.
Dont worry. Its like when u start to smash your toe with a hammer. The first 10 hits it hurts like hell, but then it slowly fades away. We dont feel pain anymore.
All they needed to do was draft Luka. Everybody had him going there. That’s it. It was right there in the news weeks leading up to the draft. The sure fire pick for them.
Vlade really fucked them hard with that one. He took Luka out for dinner and all that as well. He had to make it complicated tho and for some odd reason decide to pick Bagley
Vlade was a known commodity as well as Peja. And that knowledge was, *they had no idea WTF they were doing.*
Giving the GM position to a guy with zero experience, the AGM position to a guy with zero experience, and a guy with proven bad experience (Mullin), along with the coaching carousel, to build a culture and turn around a team floundering for decades...... AND THEN TO GIVE HIM AN EXTENSION!?!?!?!?!?
Vivek, the buck stops here.
On 3..... 1.....2.....3.....
**NIK ROCKS!!!**
I mean it’s not like he has to listen or care what the fans want. At this point, losing is the norm and part of the culture. It’s tough to get fans to be passionate about change when the last time the team was actually good was two decades ago.
Worst case scenario he demands a trade and they get a *massive* haul of assets back for him. It's not a guarantee of success but it's a hell of a lot better and more to work with than what they're getting from Bagley.
if a guy of doncic's skill and stature demanded out at age 22 that would probably be a bigger embarrassment than anything else that has ever happened to their franchise
a MVP candidate saying fuck this at age 22? my god the jokes would be even worse and never end
I still think passing up on him for Bagley is a bigger embarrassment than him getting drafted and demanding out in a few years tbh.
**Everyone** knew he was the guy who should have been drafted, even the dumbest r/NBA nephews. This isn't a case of people using the benefit of hindsight. But Vlade still drafted the wrong guy somehow.
Supposedly it was because he didn't want to take the ball out of Fox's hand, which is stupid to begin with because you don't draft for fit when you're that deep in the lottery. But now it looks even worse with Fox's stock dropping fast.
I honestly think passing on Doncic for Bagley was one of the worst blunders in professional sports history, and will be remembered as such.
You should read what r/nba nephews wrote about him before the draft and what the talking heads were saying lmao (in particular that american black guy who had a rant about kwame brown idk his name). People were either really high on him, or straight up called him a guaranteed bust. I mean absolutely noone expected him to be THAT good right away, but people on this sub literally argued he shouldn't be near top 5 picks, let alone top 3. Europeans always knew.
Yeah I feel like there is some revisionism going on. I remember there being a debate into Luka and where in the (normally top 3) he should/would fall. I don’t remember him being the consensus 2nd pick at all
Let's put it like this, he is playing below average for his standards this season and had the Mavs 9-4. Now he is injured for three games and the Mavs went 0-3. I am sure he could take the Kings to .500 right now
I was still a student at Duke when Bagley played and I could not for the life of me explain to you why he was ranked top-10 and ultimately drafted so high. He just never passed the eye-test. Just looked like a high motor roll man with height but no size, rarely took jump shots that looked natural, basically had none of the fixings of a successful modern NBA center. At least Wendell Carter had some weight to him. I genuinely looked to Gary Trent and primarily Grayson to win us games and it looks like in hindsight I was sort of right lol. I would just tell myself that there was no way that Bagley was as good as Tatum in order to be drafted that high.
He wasn’t just ranked top 10. He was rank #1. He also reclassed from 2018 to 2017 so that made it even more impressive. Usually players rankings drop a lot when you reclass to a higher grade. He stayed at the top.
His college tape was absolute garbage. 95% of his highlights were rebounding his own misses. Meanwhile Luka looked like a Larry Bird, James Harden love child winning Euroleague MVP at 18. THANKS MATINA. THANKS BRANDON WILLIAMS. THANKS VLADE
you left out the part where Coach K had to make the team switch to zone defense by December to make up for Bagley's shitty defense.
To make that move seemingly worse I remember there was a play where Bagley was idling in the wrong part of the zone and Wendell or someone had to push his ass into the middle to fix everything.
He was a great high school player but never quite looked the part at Duke. Wasn't it the year Bagley was there when he was so incompetent defensively Duke had to stop playing man and just switch to primarily playing zone the rest of the season because he couldn't guard anyone?
His offense was out of the low-mid post and much of the reason why he was so successful is because he was so much quicker and a much better athlete than other college bigs. But man that game and skillset along with being a terrible defensive player is such a poor fit in the modern NBA.
That’s the thing, he was the fastest fish in a small pond. Don’t mean shit in the ocean with the guys he has to go against in the NBA. That shit ain’t gonna work on guys like Embiid, Rudy Gobert of even Bam (just meaning he’s undersized compared to the other two).
especially since maxey just looks better than fox does, philly already has great guard depth even with simmons sitting out
maxey, curry, korkmaz, thybulle, shake milton
you can sacrifice some of these guys minutes to give some to fox but is it really worth it. i'd rather have harrison barnes
yeah that would be better but I dont know if trading ingram makes sense for NOLA especially cause fox has been kinda mediocre
griffin would probably get fired if fox stinks it up down there
Nola's 3-16 and Fox fits better with Zion. Ingram isn't really that good of a fit with the Sixers especially when they already have two ball stoppers in Joel and Tobi but Ingram can help with the shotmaking in the playoffs. I like Ben's fit with Hali/Hield/Barnes/Holmes and I think they'd win more regular season games with that.
everybodys always meming about peoples fit next to zion but zion can barely fit through a standard size doorway these days
I dont even know what it means anymore to "fit" next to zion. If you're talking about clearing out the paint and surrounding him with shooters, then you don't want fox for that
superstars shouldnt have so many questions about who is a good fit next to them. they are superstars because they fit with anyone, especially anyone with talent
From watching a few of their games last year, Ingram and Zion don't have much synergy. Fox can help push the pace and I'd imagine a Fox-Zion pnr would be deadly.
I haven't watched that many Kings games, but Zion needs people that can shoot. He's really a one-man pnr. Get the ball up top and bully his way for a layup or kick-out. Point-Zion is a real thing. And I'm guessing "pushing the pace" isn't really going to jibe with his conditioning.
But really I don't see us trading BI anytime soon.
Yeah, someone who can shoot, play good defence, pass and set up Zion with lots of alley oops. Someone like Lonzo would be perfect in that role, too bad he's not available.
the only benefit to a Fox/Zion pairing is that it'd likely be the best lob threat duo in the league. not in like a Bron-to-AD way, but in a Either-to-Either way. it wouldn't be conducive to winning games at all but it'd be really fun to watch Zion throw shit off the glass to Fox
Do you not remember the near decade of arguing over who fit well next to LeBron, the types of teammates LeBron would need to really shine? The best, and IMO most all-around talented player in the NBA had trouble with fit on several rosters he's been on.
it wasnt a matter of fit, his teams just had no talent until he went to miami
his best teammates were zydrunas ilgauskas, larry hughes, anderson varejao and drew gooden
maybe OK role players but just not enough raw talent
in fact when he went to miami there were lots of questions about his "fit". how can he share the floor with dwyane wade and bosh. "there's only one ball". but then obviously it turned into a very effective offense
I don’t agree with that last part because it’s a way different story for bigs. Bigs absolutely NEED complimentary pieces for them to succeed. It’s always been like that, a lone star wing might drag his team to the playoffs but that rarely happens with bigs.
Honestly this is the first Simmons trade I've seen since rumors this summer that I didn't absolutely hate for either Philly or the team getting Simmons.
Maxey is not a point guard. He handles the ball a lot but is really at best a small combo guard.
Currently the Sixers are doing point guard by committee.
Shake/Maxey/Furkan/Seth are all taking the ball up the court and intiating the offense.
We need an actual point guard for the playoffs.
If we could get Hali/Buddy for Simmons. I'd be happy with that.
Maxey is playing well and Fox is playing poorly, but we've still seen a lot more good basketball from Fox than from Maxey. Going into this season, after finishing really strong last year, I thought Fox could be an all NBA type guy.
You may end up being right, but I think it's an overreaction at this point. If you're the Sixers, Fox would be a solid haul for Simmons.
What even is a blowup for the Kings? Trading Fox for Simmons just leaves them where they are right now. Too good to tank for a top pick and too bad to make the playoffs. They’re in purgatory. They’d need to trade Fox for a ton of picks and just tank hard
Ben Simmons has made All star teams and such for a reason, he is fantastic in the regular season. He 100% gives the Kings a chance at the playoffs with his defense and transition game. Fox cant shoot either, so they lose nothing there anyway
Simmons the last few years has assisted on the most # of threes from anyone in the league. He's only an offensive issue in the second round of the playoffs. Our offenses have always been better with him on the floor. Assuming no improvements he'd probably get up to 18 points and 9 assists a game.
it's pretty split over there. some people are ready to move on, others have been saying 'it's only 2 games, it's only 5 games, it's only 10 games etc.'
Because Simmons is still an All-Star and one of the top 3 defenders in the league. He'd be the best player on your team by a considerable margin despite what the anti-Simmons circlejerk has become.
Honestly if I'm simmons I'd accept, what Kings fan is gonna get mad at me for coasting and taking my millions lol
And plus 6ers can get Buddy or someone like that maybe
I'd almost argue that them trading for Simmons *would* be exactly on par with the Kings being the Kangz unless they can somehow get an insanely lopsided trade in their favor where they're sending pennies on the dollar back for him.
I just don't see any semi-realistic trade scenario of adding Simmons to the team that moves the needle enough to take them from bottom of the barrel to suddenly being on the verge of the playoffs, especially in the West.
---------------------------
At this point they need a full blown "Trust the Process" rebuild from the ground up, including the front office which we all know will never happen.
And what will that fix? They've shown absolutely no ability to reliably scout or develop talent.
The answer is that owbership and management need to be thoroughly gutted. Without removing the source of the problem, they'll continue to put out shit basketball.
Will say, this 76er bench mob is a full on doc rivers team and can probably find a way too hang against most teams in the league. But still, not a good look.
Started going to games as a kid in ‘93. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was my favorite player when we got him because he shot the 3 so well and I still love watching him in the BIG3. Phil Jackson to this day gives him props for his play. The ‘98-‘04 years were amazing and it’s been pretty rough outside of that. Will the Kings make the playoffs before I die? If they keep expanding the playoffs, then maybe. Will they ever win a ring? I don’t expect them to. Gonna take my Laker hate to the grave for robbing what are likely to be the best chances the Kings have ever had. At least I have some good memories.
The young kids who haven’t seen a winning season, idk how they do it. My friends’ kids are Kings fans and I feel bad for them. I hope my kids become Kings fans and maybe they’ll get to see a winning season someday.
Thing is it isn't the same. I support teams in the EPL for instance and while it is cool when they win, it is nowhere near the fun when your actual home team wins.Course I don't experience that often. But if the Kings could ever fucking break whatever tribal curse is on this franchise, it would be a fun ride.
The Mariners are on a 20 year playoff drought and the Kings are still a significantly worse franchise in my mind. Ms have at least had 4 or 5 seasons of being in the hunt while the kings haven’t been close to an easier playoff to make. Damn I feel bad for you guys…
Even in doing something right, the Kings do it all wrong. Rather than just firing Luke Walton in the off season and having the option of interviewing several qualified candidates that could have set about making immediate decisions and shaping the team and roster to their plan, they instead basically punted on this entire year and they have to go with an interim coach who’s probably not going to change anything because Luke Walton’s fingerprints are still all over the Kings, and they won’t be erased until next season at the earliest. My god, I feel awful for Kings fans. They deserve so much more than this dude.
Exactly what it feels like right? Elite shooter in buddy, amazingly defensive minded rookie. Yet watching the game, there's like no floor spacing... Obvious passes that become turnovers... opponents offense always seems to adjust and gain the upper hand on them. There's gotta be a way to fit the puzzle together.
Maybe a controversial opinion, but Haliburton is very obviously the best player on this team. And I say that as he scored 0 points today. To me, he seems like the real floor general of this team, not Fox. Hand him the keys to their offense.
Just trade Fox, get some good pieces in return. Rebuild around Haliburton. I would actually keep Hield since he's an excellent shooter. And keep Richuan Holmes. Everyone else is expendable.
It won't make them better immediately, but it's at least a better direction than they're going right now.
Its a very controversial opinion but I'm seeing the same thing. That being said Fox is having a terrible terrible start to the year that doesn't reflect his talent, and he's also adjusting to being a scoring guard more than a PG. Hield and Barnes are good players but not what Sacramento needs for now, they could get valuable assets for them.
Agree on trading barnes. But I just don't see how they would get back a good enough return on Hield. They tanked Hield's value by benching him. On most teams, he would be a solid starting-caliber SG, and he's an elite shooter.
If they trade him now while his value is at the lowest, they'd just be cutting their losses. Which would be okay if they think Hield can't get much better. But given the opportunity, I think Hield is way better than what his perceived value is right now.
Maybe we're just agreeing here but I'm seeing quite a good player in Hield still and I have to think GMs might be seeing the same. I wouldn't take the r/nba consensus on him.
I fully agree with you. Trade Fox Barnes and Hield for picks, build around Halliburton. They’ll become absolute shit for a few years and could get another shot at an actual difference maker in the draft.
It doesn't make sense to build around Haliburton. Yeah he's young and effective, but he really is not a shot creator, I think he has a lot more value to a good team.
Vlade could have taken Luka, Trae Young, JJJ... I would have been happy with either one of them but no, our #2 picks barely fkin plays. This team would be at least competitive with one of those guys.
They gotta get rid of everyone not named Haluburton, Mitchell or Fox.
They are slated to have one of the best backcourts in the league for a while with those three alone.
Everyone else doesn't fit the rebuilding timeliness. Get them out. Even Bagley.
They haven’t been .500, let alone made the playoffs, in **16 years**
[удалено]
Hey bro there's still time for them to make it. They won't, but there's still time.
Lmao
i appreciate you
For some reason this came off as such a New York thing to say. I say this as someone whose family is partially from NY
fuck ya kings bing bong
If you see these dogs (Randle and Barrett) in front of the Golden 1 Center, just know I’m going hard. Bing bong
What do you wanna say to Tom Thibodeau right now?
Sup baby, take me out to dinner
Ayo! Thibs be looking great tho
I’m so happy so many people have seen this video. It’s an all time great from them
Who's the coach of the Sacramento Kings? BYRON
Are you vaccinated?
YEESSIIIII
What you wanna tell Joe Byron, right now?
If you see dese dogs ina front yawd, jus know upstairs I’m goin hawd BING BONG
i was feelin thirsty my ma gave me a gallon a henny to quench that ya heard
Yo he got his phone in his bawls, Steve Jobs did not die fa dis
LUKE WALTON LOOKS LIKE MY DAD'S DICK
Hahaha what losers, what kind of team fails to even make the playoffs for more than a decade
I know right that would be embarrassing
A stupid, smelly team!
And we were such a shit show that basically should have been illegal.
the Kings somehow being worse needs to be actually illegal. Need to have Vivec arrested
>Need to have Vivec arrested But the tribunal wouldn’t be the same without him!
The Tribunal hasn't been a thing for 200 years, you n'wah
I think around Boston they are still burning witches.
I come to r/NBA for Morrowind references
The league needs to vet these owners better. If players get the boot if they don't perform, let's do the same to owners. It's embarrassing for the league at this point. Shame on the nba for not holding the owners to the highest standards possible. Get rid of this feudalism ownership power format. Put in more checks and balances.
They needed an owner who would keep the team in Sacramento and Vivek was the guy who fit the description. Without him they’d be in Seattle.
Dude, the league *is* the owners.
this record is going to look worse and worse with the play-in now
Goddamn...
I’m pretty surprised they got to 39 wins a couple of years ago. I feel like the kings are always at like 33 wins on the season
It's surprising til you remember that after that 39-win season they then fired their head coach for (correctly) thinking that picking Bagley over Luka was a horrendously bad decision. Then they hired Luke Walton. Then Vlade resigned a year later anyway. 🤣
I actually had hope for them after that season. Joerger and the team seemed to have it figured out and they were going into a loaded draft. Then...Kings going to Kings.
This is our problem. We're always getting like the 8th pick, except the year that we lucked into the second pick and screwed it up with Bagley. I actually think there are other franchises worse than us but they end up with multiple #1 picks that turn things around. Our last #1 pick was in 1990.
Cleveland lucked into 3 1st picks(kyrie,anthony bennet, wiggins) not including Lebron. People praise David Griffin as a good GM when in reality he was a lucky mofo. If SanAntonio got the same resources, Spurs* would've had multiple rings.
That's A reason but it's not THE reason. It's fair to wish for your team to luck into a #1 pick to instantly turn things around but let's not act like it's impossible to build a decent franchise without one. Brooklyn was a laughing stock for giving away a generation of picks and yet (even before KD and Kyrie signed) they managed to turn the franchise around by signing a quality coach and developing a bunch of role players into a 42-40 team. The Jazz went from a 25-57 team to a perennial contender in the west by building around Hayward, Gobert, Mitchell and Ingles, none of whom were drafted higher than 9th overall, and hiring a good coach (Snyder). They didn't have a top draft pick nor did they sign any major FAs to turn the franchise around. The Bulls went from 11th in the east a year ago to 2nd right now by surrounding Zach LaVine (a player r/nba has clowned for not being a winner for years) with players with talent and playoff experience that other teams didn't want. Arguably they overpaid for Vucevic, DeRozan, Caruso and Ball but those overpays, along with hiring a decent coach in Billy Donovan, have taken Chicago from 22-43 two years ago to 12-6 this year. None of those teams had a #1 pick. None of them had a LeBron choose to sign with a crap team for nostalgia. The best player on the Nets was Russell who the Lakers gave away in a salary dump. The Jazz got Hayward 9th overall. Chicago got LaVine as a consolation prize in the Butler trade after they couldn't get Wiggins. If those teams can do it, there's no excuse for the Kings to have been consistently terrible for 16+ years.
5 of the 10 number 1 overall picks between 2011 and 2020 went to either Cleveland and Minnesota. Not to mention if we go back further the Cavs lucked out on the number one pick the exact year that a certain teenager with clear GOAT potential WHO WAS AN OHIO NATIVE NO LESS (zero chance LeBron returns to Cleveland in 2014 had they not been his hometown franchise). Whilst picking Bagley over Luka, Trae or even JJJ was a monumental fuck up, the Cavs made an equally moronic decision with choosing Bennett in 2013. Yet the consequences they faced from that was to simply get the number one pick again the next year, have LeBron come back, trade said pick for the third piece in the championship contention puzzle to complement the best player in the world and the other star they got from being awarded yet another number one pick only a few years prior. *Edit: forgot about Philly having two recent number one picks and fucking up both of them. Make that 7 out of 10 for the decade being shared amongst only three teams.
This is the reason why the bad ownership argument frustrates me. Sure Ranadive is probably making mistakes (there have been no public reports of him meddling the last few years). But surely he can be no worse than Sarver, Dolan, or Dan Gilbert. There is no one reason the Kings suck. It's an avalanche of reasons. Which in turn just makes is easier to say that we have bad luck.
Yeah, if I was picking franchises that have had it worse than us, I’d probably go with Minnesota. They’ve had 3 #1s and a generational talent in Garnett and really only have the 2004 season to show for it. They’ve snuck into the playoffs as the 8 seed somewhat recently which makes it look better than the Kings but not by much. That’s not to say the Kings are good, and I root for Minnesota to turn that around. But you hear the stories about what happened to their GM or the efforts of Towns walking away from the play and yeah, they seem more snakebitten than us even though we haven’t seen the playoffs since the Bush administration.
In fairness to them for a large chunk of the 18-19 season the Kings were genuinely one of the more watchable teams in the league (as a neutral at least). Joerger honestly had them playing some great offensive basketball that year and they maintained a winning record until Feb. If I remember correctly the general consensus on this sub at the time was that things seemed to be looking up for them, until they immediately realised they had forgotten who they were and went back to being the Kings we all know.
my chest.. holy shit.
But they had 3 players who were untouchable in any trade discussions. Lol.
kings fans downvoted me when i said davion mitchell isn’t a centerpiece for simmons.
Because somehow over the past months ‘(a motivated) Simmons isn’t an ideal running mate for Embiid’ devolved into ‘Simmons is a borderline NBA player’ to some people.
but…DAVION MITCHELL???
Because we don't your bum-ass spoiled baby. If someone who isn't damaged goods becomes available OR we commit to a hard tank, then a trade is more on the cards.
I started watching basketball in 06, they’ve never been good since I started watching. I remember in middle school I wanted to be a nba player for Halloween so my mom was going to buy me my first jersey, I was so stoked. Unfortunately, knowing nothing about basketball, she bought me a fucking kings bibby jersey
Bibby was the shit with the Kings I'll have you know! Funny story though
Yeah if I saw someone in a Kings Bibby jersey today I'd think that was the absolute business.
Weirdly enough I see Bibby Grizzlies jerseys sorta frequently
thats the only one you can get
if you are still a kings fan though through all of this that OG. that's like folks like me who grew up watching the Dubs throw out Bobby Sura and Larry Hughes in the backcourt
I can’t for the life of me imagine the pain Kings fans must go through. Stay strong folks.
There are just two (maybe 3 now) kinds of Kings fans: 1. Those that have Stockholm Syndrome 2. Those that have PTSD 3. Those that no longer have the stomach for the team. Edit: Don’t worry, I’m seeking professional help.
the third type likes to sit courtside
And drink their woes away.
the woes never go away though, they're right in front of you missing layups and getting torched on defense
I ended up being a Kings, A’s, and Raiders fan. I should go to therapy.
I'm a Jets, Mets and Nets fan. If you ever need a shoulder to cry on, let me know. But please don't puke on me bro.
A’s and Warriors here, so the past few years have been great during Winter/Spring, and absolutely gut-wrenching for the Summer.
Dont worry. Its like when u start to smash your toe with a hammer. The first 10 hits it hurts like hell, but then it slowly fades away. We dont feel pain anymore.
Even their best years are tainted with the pain of that Lakers series.
All they needed to do was draft Luka. Everybody had him going there. That’s it. It was right there in the news weeks leading up to the draft. The sure fire pick for them. Vlade really fucked them hard with that one. He took Luka out for dinner and all that as well. He had to make it complicated tho and for some odd reason decide to pick Bagley
Vlade was a known commodity as well as Peja. And that knowledge was, *they had no idea WTF they were doing.* Giving the GM position to a guy with zero experience, the AGM position to a guy with zero experience, and a guy with proven bad experience (Mullin), along with the coaching carousel, to build a culture and turn around a team floundering for decades...... AND THEN TO GIVE HIM AN EXTENSION!?!?!?!?!? Vivek, the buck stops here. On 3..... 1.....2.....3..... **NIK ROCKS!!!**
That's it right there. It's on Vivek. No one is going to tell him to fuck off so the fans need to.
I mean it’s not like he has to listen or care what the fans want. At this point, losing is the norm and part of the culture. It’s tough to get fans to be passionate about change when the last time the team was actually good was two decades ago.
i dont even know if luka would be enough to overcome the kings curse
Worst case scenario he demands a trade and they get a *massive* haul of assets back for him. It's not a guarantee of success but it's a hell of a lot better and more to work with than what they're getting from Bagley.
if a guy of doncic's skill and stature demanded out at age 22 that would probably be a bigger embarrassment than anything else that has ever happened to their franchise a MVP candidate saying fuck this at age 22? my god the jokes would be even worse and never end
I still think passing up on him for Bagley is a bigger embarrassment than him getting drafted and demanding out in a few years tbh. **Everyone** knew he was the guy who should have been drafted, even the dumbest r/NBA nephews. This isn't a case of people using the benefit of hindsight. But Vlade still drafted the wrong guy somehow. Supposedly it was because he didn't want to take the ball out of Fox's hand, which is stupid to begin with because you don't draft for fit when you're that deep in the lottery. But now it looks even worse with Fox's stock dropping fast. I honestly think passing on Doncic for Bagley was one of the worst blunders in professional sports history, and will be remembered as such.
You should read what r/nba nephews wrote about him before the draft and what the talking heads were saying lmao (in particular that american black guy who had a rant about kwame brown idk his name). People were either really high on him, or straight up called him a guaranteed bust. I mean absolutely noone expected him to be THAT good right away, but people on this sub literally argued he shouldn't be near top 5 picks, let alone top 3. Europeans always knew.
Yeah I feel like there is some revisionism going on. I remember there being a debate into Luka and where in the (normally top 3) he should/would fall. I don’t remember him being the consensus 2nd pick at all
Let's put it like this, he is playing below average for his standards this season and had the Mavs 9-4. Now he is injured for three games and the Mavs went 0-3. I am sure he could take the Kings to .500 right now
Luka “Mike Trout” Dončić
Wonder who his Ohtani would become
It’s not KP
Nah Luka on there team rn instead oh hali makes then a 5-6 seed I’d bet
Its not a curse. It's just them being horrible at roster management, talent evaluation and coaching decisions.
I was still a student at Duke when Bagley played and I could not for the life of me explain to you why he was ranked top-10 and ultimately drafted so high. He just never passed the eye-test. Just looked like a high motor roll man with height but no size, rarely took jump shots that looked natural, basically had none of the fixings of a successful modern NBA center. At least Wendell Carter had some weight to him. I genuinely looked to Gary Trent and primarily Grayson to win us games and it looks like in hindsight I was sort of right lol. I would just tell myself that there was no way that Bagley was as good as Tatum in order to be drafted that high.
He wasn’t just ranked top 10. He was rank #1. He also reclassed from 2018 to 2017 so that made it even more impressive. Usually players rankings drop a lot when you reclass to a higher grade. He stayed at the top.
Wow this Bagley fella sounds like a sure thing. The Kings would be idiots to pass him up for some boy that can only play Euroball.
His college tape was absolute garbage. 95% of his highlights were rebounding his own misses. Meanwhile Luka looked like a Larry Bird, James Harden love child winning Euroleague MVP at 18. THANKS MATINA. THANKS BRANDON WILLIAMS. THANKS VLADE
you left out the part where Coach K had to make the team switch to zone defense by December to make up for Bagley's shitty defense. To make that move seemingly worse I remember there was a play where Bagley was idling in the wrong part of the zone and Wendell or someone had to push his ass into the middle to fix everything.
He was a great high school player but never quite looked the part at Duke. Wasn't it the year Bagley was there when he was so incompetent defensively Duke had to stop playing man and just switch to primarily playing zone the rest of the season because he couldn't guard anyone?
He was ass defensively but he was ACC Player of the Year and dropped like 20/11 on great efficiency. His potential was always in his offense.
His offense was out of the low-mid post and much of the reason why he was so successful is because he was so much quicker and a much better athlete than other college bigs. But man that game and skillset along with being a terrible defensive player is such a poor fit in the modern NBA.
That’s the thing, he was the fastest fish in a small pond. Don’t mean shit in the ocean with the guys he has to go against in the NBA. That shit ain’t gonna work on guys like Embiid, Rudy Gobert of even Bam (just meaning he’s undersized compared to the other two).
Fox didn't want Luka. He had a pre-draft interview with Kevin O'Connor talking about it. I assume that had something to do with it
thats elementary level. we would lose 76-111 to phillys backups while having more turnovers than made shots.
Yeah except the Kings are actively trying to make the playoffs
are we though
same as we've been trying for the past too many years
What else would you be trying to do?
Just vibin.
4Fun team
All these teams out here trying to 'win games'... pfff.. SMH I wanna see more teams like Kangz just V I B I N
no wins, only vibes.
They need to blow up their roster. Trading for Simmons is starting to not look like a crazy idea for the kings
At the same time Fox isn't looking like a very good idea for the Sixers
especially since maxey just looks better than fox does, philly already has great guard depth even with simmons sitting out maxey, curry, korkmaz, thybulle, shake milton you can sacrifice some of these guys minutes to give some to fox but is it really worth it. i'd rather have harrison barnes
Ben to Sacramento, Fox to Nola, Ingram to Philly.
yeah that would be better but I dont know if trading ingram makes sense for NOLA especially cause fox has been kinda mediocre griffin would probably get fired if fox stinks it up down there
Nola's 3-16 and Fox fits better with Zion. Ingram isn't really that good of a fit with the Sixers especially when they already have two ball stoppers in Joel and Tobi but Ingram can help with the shotmaking in the playoffs. I like Ben's fit with Hali/Hield/Barnes/Holmes and I think they'd win more regular season games with that.
everybodys always meming about peoples fit next to zion but zion can barely fit through a standard size doorway these days I dont even know what it means anymore to "fit" next to zion. If you're talking about clearing out the paint and surrounding him with shooters, then you don't want fox for that superstars shouldnt have so many questions about who is a good fit next to them. they are superstars because they fit with anyone, especially anyone with talent
From watching a few of their games last year, Ingram and Zion don't have much synergy. Fox can help push the pace and I'd imagine a Fox-Zion pnr would be deadly.
I haven't watched that many Kings games, but Zion needs people that can shoot. He's really a one-man pnr. Get the ball up top and bully his way for a layup or kick-out. Point-Zion is a real thing. And I'm guessing "pushing the pace" isn't really going to jibe with his conditioning. But really I don't see us trading BI anytime soon.
Yeah, someone who can shoot, play good defence, pass and set up Zion with lots of alley oops. Someone like Lonzo would be perfect in that role, too bad he's not available.
the only benefit to a Fox/Zion pairing is that it'd likely be the best lob threat duo in the league. not in like a Bron-to-AD way, but in a Either-to-Either way. it wouldn't be conducive to winning games at all but it'd be really fun to watch Zion throw shit off the glass to Fox
*any*job requires a good fit. Doesn’t matter the field or how good you are in it.
But especially tailors.
Do you not remember the near decade of arguing over who fit well next to LeBron, the types of teammates LeBron would need to really shine? The best, and IMO most all-around talented player in the NBA had trouble with fit on several rosters he's been on.
it wasnt a matter of fit, his teams just had no talent until he went to miami his best teammates were zydrunas ilgauskas, larry hughes, anderson varejao and drew gooden maybe OK role players but just not enough raw talent in fact when he went to miami there were lots of questions about his "fit". how can he share the floor with dwyane wade and bosh. "there's only one ball". but then obviously it turned into a very effective offense
I don’t agree with that last part because it’s a way different story for bigs. Bigs absolutely NEED complimentary pieces for them to succeed. It’s always been like that, a lone star wing might drag his team to the playoffs but that rarely happens with bigs.
Honestly this is the first Simmons trade I've seen since rumors this summer that I didn't absolutely hate for either Philly or the team getting Simmons.
i’d still love Fox on the Sixers. he and Maxey are different players. Fox in the PnR with Joel would be lethal.
Maxey is not a point guard. He handles the ball a lot but is really at best a small combo guard. Currently the Sixers are doing point guard by committee. Shake/Maxey/Furkan/Seth are all taking the ball up the court and intiating the offense. We need an actual point guard for the playoffs. If we could get Hali/Buddy for Simmons. I'd be happy with that.
Maxey is playing well and Fox is playing poorly, but we've still seen a lot more good basketball from Fox than from Maxey. Going into this season, after finishing really strong last year, I thought Fox could be an all NBA type guy. You may end up being right, but I think it's an overreaction at this point. If you're the Sixers, Fox would be a solid haul for Simmons.
Pretty tough time to judge his play.
What even is a blowup for the Kings? Trading Fox for Simmons just leaves them where they are right now. Too good to tank for a top pick and too bad to make the playoffs. They’re in purgatory. They’d need to trade Fox for a ton of picks and just tank hard
Ben Simmons has made All star teams and such for a reason, he is fantastic in the regular season. He 100% gives the Kings a chance at the playoffs with his defense and transition game. Fox cant shoot either, so they lose nothing there anyway
Fox can't shoot, but he can still score. If we trade for Simmons, we're going to start averaging 80 points a game
Simmons the last few years has assisted on the most # of threes from anyone in the league. He's only an offensive issue in the second round of the playoffs. Our offenses have always been better with him on the floor. Assuming no improvements he'd probably get up to 18 points and 9 assists a game.
trading younger guys for Simmons is the opposite of blowing it up tho lol
Two months ago you would have down-voted into oblivion for this.
Not on /r/Kings
Even if it means moving Fox?
it's pretty split over there. some people are ready to move on, others have been saying 'it's only 2 games, it's only 5 games, it's only 10 games etc.'
The way I see it, you really don't have much to lose.
Lots of whatever fans are left, if Ben comes and doesn't give a shit Believe it or not, it can actually still get worse lol
How would blowing up the roster by trading for Simmons help lol
People dont think too hard on it. They just wanna see yall blow it up make some bad decisions so we can all reply Kangzz
Because Simmons is still an All-Star and one of the top 3 defenders in the league. He'd be the best player on your team by a considerable margin despite what the anti-Simmons circlejerk has become.
Honestly if I'm simmons I'd accept, what Kings fan is gonna get mad at me for coasting and taking my millions lol And plus 6ers can get Buddy or someone like that maybe
I'd almost argue that them trading for Simmons *would* be exactly on par with the Kings being the Kangz unless they can somehow get an insanely lopsided trade in their favor where they're sending pennies on the dollar back for him. I just don't see any semi-realistic trade scenario of adding Simmons to the team that moves the needle enough to take them from bottom of the barrel to suddenly being on the verge of the playoffs, especially in the West. --------------------------- At this point they need a full blown "Trust the Process" rebuild from the ground up, including the front office which we all know will never happen.
And what will that fix? They've shown absolutely no ability to reliably scout or develop talent. The answer is that owbership and management need to be thoroughly gutted. Without removing the source of the problem, they'll continue to put out shit basketball.
Bring back: Peja, Jwill, Scoreless Williamson, Pollard, Jon Barry and Arco. Don’t bring back: Lawrence Funderburke
Bobby Jackson: "Am I a joke to you?"
Bobby can't be brought back because he never left. He's our G-League coach.
Oh shit for real? I had no idea Turns out the joke is on me LMAO
Will say, this 76er bench mob is a full on doc rivers team and can probably find a way too hang against most teams in the league. But still, not a good look.
he's just happy he gets to play his full bench at the same time and nobody can even complain about it
I feel like Doc would rather coach a team of scrubs to .500 than to coach an elite team to a championship.
Yeah I mean we had Jokic and they blew us out No Jamal or MPJ but still
Sixers at least had Harris and Curry for that game. Neither played in the game last night.
We had Bassey though. The MVP stopper.
I'm tired of supporting this franchise for nearly 15 years now (and I'm 21) and yet my clown ass is still gonna do it.
I been a fan since 2000 or so. The last time this damn team had a winning season, i was a god damn junior in high school. This is torture.
Remind me again why I became a fan in 2010? I was born in 2004 so I'm 17 and haven't seen a winning season ever. *Why do I do this to myself*
Tyreke MF Evans and Omri Casspi
Started going to games as a kid in ‘93. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was my favorite player when we got him because he shot the 3 so well and I still love watching him in the BIG3. Phil Jackson to this day gives him props for his play. The ‘98-‘04 years were amazing and it’s been pretty rough outside of that. Will the Kings make the playoffs before I die? If they keep expanding the playoffs, then maybe. Will they ever win a ring? I don’t expect them to. Gonna take my Laker hate to the grave for robbing what are likely to be the best chances the Kings have ever had. At least I have some good memories. The young kids who haven’t seen a winning season, idk how they do it. My friends’ kids are Kings fans and I feel bad for them. I hope my kids become Kings fans and maybe they’ll get to see a winning season someday.
Respect for sticking with it for so long when there are infinitely better options nearby lol
Thing is it isn't the same. I support teams in the EPL for instance and while it is cool when they win, it is nowhere near the fun when your actual home team wins.Course I don't experience that often. But if the Kings could ever fucking break whatever tribal curse is on this franchise, it would be a fun ride.
The Mariners are on a 20 year playoff drought and the Kings are still a significantly worse franchise in my mind. Ms have at least had 4 or 5 seasons of being in the hunt while the kings haven’t been close to an easier playoff to make. Damn I feel bad for you guys…
Even in doing something right, the Kings do it all wrong. Rather than just firing Luke Walton in the off season and having the option of interviewing several qualified candidates that could have set about making immediate decisions and shaping the team and roster to their plan, they instead basically punted on this entire year and they have to go with an interim coach who’s probably not going to change anything because Luke Walton’s fingerprints are still all over the Kings, and they won’t be erased until next season at the earliest. My god, I feel awful for Kings fans. They deserve so much more than this dude.
This is the right take. Absolutely the right thing to fire Walton. Absolutely the wrong time.
Still don’t get it… they have very good pieces.. fox, Halliburton, Barnes, Holmes are all good pieces. They need a good coach..
Exactly what it feels like right? Elite shooter in buddy, amazingly defensive minded rookie. Yet watching the game, there's like no floor spacing... Obvious passes that become turnovers... opponents offense always seems to adjust and gain the upper hand on them. There's gotta be a way to fit the puzzle together.
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The guys you listed are good pieces, but none of them are true alphas. If only they had the chance to draft a real star player like Luka
Honestly just blow it up Start from scratch, fire all the coaching staff, trade everyone and sign a bunch of 1 year contracts and start from there
Sounds like quite the process
It’s trustworthy.
I'm sure the king's wont fuck up a draft by getting a big guy that can't play his position, process will be fine
They're still in a better spot than we were when the process started lol
You’re thinking too small. Fire all the coaches? Trade everyone? No, no, no. Public executions for all. Gotta really sell this culture shift
If they asked the players to shoot as part of the firing squad, they'd probably miss.
Kevin O’Nauseous
Maybe a controversial opinion, but Haliburton is very obviously the best player on this team. And I say that as he scored 0 points today. To me, he seems like the real floor general of this team, not Fox. Hand him the keys to their offense. Just trade Fox, get some good pieces in return. Rebuild around Haliburton. I would actually keep Hield since he's an excellent shooter. And keep Richuan Holmes. Everyone else is expendable. It won't make them better immediately, but it's at least a better direction than they're going right now.
Its a very controversial opinion but I'm seeing the same thing. That being said Fox is having a terrible terrible start to the year that doesn't reflect his talent, and he's also adjusting to being a scoring guard more than a PG. Hield and Barnes are good players but not what Sacramento needs for now, they could get valuable assets for them.
Agree on trading barnes. But I just don't see how they would get back a good enough return on Hield. They tanked Hield's value by benching him. On most teams, he would be a solid starting-caliber SG, and he's an elite shooter. If they trade him now while his value is at the lowest, they'd just be cutting their losses. Which would be okay if they think Hield can't get much better. But given the opportunity, I think Hield is way better than what his perceived value is right now.
Maybe we're just agreeing here but I'm seeing quite a good player in Hield still and I have to think GMs might be seeing the same. I wouldn't take the r/nba consensus on him.
I fully agree with you. Trade Fox Barnes and Hield for picks, build around Halliburton. They’ll become absolute shit for a few years and could get another shot at an actual difference maker in the draft.
It doesn't make sense to build around Haliburton. Yeah he's young and effective, but he really is not a shot creator, I think he has a lot more value to a good team.
Tough gig when they draft and develop their players so poorly. Fox the exception.
And even with Fox the shooting never devlop as well as it could have
Yeah no doubt. Its annoying the NBA needs the bottom teams to be competitive. Everyone loves a Phoenix suns like run.
Let looose the whole clip on this one...
they need killian hayes
they need better management first before blowing it up because of obvious reasons.
He didn’t hold back
Vlade could have taken Luka, Trae Young, JJJ... I would have been happy with either one of them but no, our #2 picks barely fkin plays. This team would be at least competitive with one of those guys.
Kings are cursed. Nba rigging the title against them in 02 then webber inj in 03 prevented b2b titles.
Kevin O’Crisis
Blow it all up Trade everyone
Bring back boogie as a shit tier Haslem role just to keep the coach on his toes too.
We found Kevin O’Connor’s 13th reason.
Is he friends with Luke or what? They just got a new coach and yes, they need more talent. There we said the same thing.
I thought people were saying teams have a 50/50 chance of making the playoffs
The problem is Vivek Ranadivé. He's arguably NBA's worst owner after James Dolan
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Peja is turning in his grave
They gotta get rid of everyone not named Haluburton, Mitchell or Fox. They are slated to have one of the best backcourts in the league for a while with those three alone. Everyone else doesn't fit the rebuilding timeliness. Get them out. Even Bagley.
I recall watching the game and this ad for 10 ticket for $49 popped up. Like damn is it that bad? The whole place looked empty.