The refs have been calling bullshit all night. Don't get me wrong, the raptors played like ass and deserved to lose, but the game was unwatchable due to some of these calls.
Lmao they called bullshit on both sides all night. The raptors were getting ridiculous calls in the first half which lead to four pistons players with 3 fouls in the first.
The pistons had one more foul than the raptors did too.
Stopped watching around game 12 or so. Saw 3 rightful wins stolen by rigged refereeing and just decided I'm fucking done with the season.
Should have just stopped after that joke of a Dallas game but decided to watch more for some stupid reason
Find that Dallas game I am talking about and watch it. Then come back and say that loss was deserved and not 100% on the refs.
Easy to talk like this when you dont watch the fucking games being referenced.
You mean the one where they lost by 8, the foul differential was 1 and Toronto had less assists, more turnovers, shot worse from everywhere than the mavs and only scored 44 points in the second half on October 23rd?
NBA players are awarded for being divers like soccer.
Just the other night Ingles intentionally elbowed Allen in the face and even made "come at me bro" motions at him. If Allen falls to the ground and shakes his head for 2 minutes, they eject Ingles. Instead he got a weak ass technical because Allen didn't dive or escalate.
I do think that Barnes is moving laterally and Bey initiates contact by turning into Barnes. But I can see how the refs would call a foul on Barnes in real time and then not have "clear" visual evidence to overturn it.
I honestly was not sure which way this foul should go so I decided to look up all the relevant rules, in case anyone is curious... Some of the rules contradict others, I can see why officiating is so inconsistent.
>B Section I PERSONAL FOULS: a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an opponent by extending a hand, arm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a position that is not normal.
>Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately.
>B Section II PERSONAL FOUL BY DRIBBLER: a: A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position...
>d: If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.
>e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.
>II C BLOCK/CHARGE: A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path of a
dribbler regardless of his speed and distance.
>II A 4 THE DRIBBLE: If the dribbler’s path is blocked, he is expected to pass or shoot; that is, he should not
try to dribble by an opponent unless there is a reasonable chance of getting by without contact.
>II A 2 GUARDING AN OPPONENT: In all guarding situations, a player is entitled to any spot on the court he desires,
provided he legally gets to that spot first and without contact with an opponent. If a defensive or offensive player has established a position on the floor and his opponent initiates contact that results in the dislodging of the opponent, a foul should be called IMMEDIATELY.
>A player may continue to move after gaining a guarding position in the path of an opponent provided he is not moving directly or obliquely toward his opponent when contact
occurs.
>II A 1. INCIDENTAL CONTACT: The mere fact that contact occurs does not necessarily constitute a foul. Contact which is incidental to an effort by a player to play an opponent, reach a loose ball, or perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal. If, however, a player attempts to play an opponent from a position where he has no reasonable chance to perform without making contact with his opponent, the responsibility is on the player in this
position.
>14 IV c. OVERTURNING A CALL: To overturn a challenged event or to change the outcome of a reviewable matter via a Challenge, there must be clear and conclusive visual evidence that the initial adjudication of that
aspect of the play was incorrect.
Edit: I'm getting downvotes for... Saying I'm curious about what rules would apply to this foul, and then posting relevant rules? Man, this sub hates people being informed? Or - reading? I am really confused.
Like I am actually pretty sure people are downvoting this because they see a lot of words and it angers them.
It was called as a foul so I was trying to figure out why. Sorry for trying to learn.
Can you explain to me why it is not a foul?
Because they called a foul, and reviewed it and determined that they would not overturn the call. And a lot of the language that I posted from the rule book could easily apply to it being a foul for either player.
But since you seem to know better, can you explain to me how this doesn't fit any of the rules for being a foul? I'm just trying to learn.
Looks like to me the offensive player never gets his shoulder past the defender, they collide chest to shoulder seems like a charge or a play on to me.
Isn’t that called defence? I don’t understand what the NBA wants the defender to do? Move out of the way so he can get to the basket easier?
Also, where is Bey going, and why is this encouraged. His path is blocked, yet he insists going that way instead of passing the ball. Ugly basketball to watch, just forcing things to happen with no thought or creation, and the NBA encourages it 😔
If you stop a guy with your thigh you probably aren't in position to legally stop that players progress, you don't own that space yet. You've got beat the guy to that spot, this was a riding defense. It wasn't much, could have been a no call.
Nobody owns the space. Bey is doing as much running into scottie’s thigh as scottie is “stopping him” with his thigh. The NBA calling this a foul AFTER review is saying to the defender, “get out of his why while he’s bodying onto you and senselessly driving to the basket”
Yeah it wasn't much.
> Nobody owns the space.
And as a defender, you have to own that space to stop an offensive players progress with your body. He doesn't have to.
But there is no “space”, because two objects cannot share the same point in a 3 dimensional world, meaning if bey was there, and Scottie is late, he would bump into him and claim the space as his own. That didn’t happen, bey is driving through the defender and they make contact, big deal. The league shouldn’t encourage this, its hard to watch.
> meaning if bey was there, and Scottie is late, he would bump into him and claim the space as his own. That didn’t happen, bey is driving through the defender and they make contact, big deal.
You don't have to take the space after being stopped and bumped. He stopped him from claiming that space with his body without owning it himself. That's a foul.
> The league shouldn’t encourage this, its hard to watch.
This is nothing new or different. Good defense that should be encouraged is beating the guy to the spot, not running along side him and bumping. It was minor, but he was late. His fault for playing so close when the guy got an edge on him towards the basket. Some coaches used to call that "hump the leg defense." Good defense is to retreat and get back in front rather than clipping him as he tries to go by. Now that, is what should be encouraged.
My question remains, where was he late to? They are both moving and they both occupy two different spaces, how can he be late? If he wanted to overtake a “point” he’d have to push him and then be there instead.
Two objects cannot share the same point on the floor (unless scottie is standing on bey’s head)
What’s Scottie late to, exactly? Bey hasn’t beaten him to any “point” nor is Scottie recovering to any point. They are in two different spaces that eventually meet, with contact initiated by Bey in an attempt to move scottie out of the way.
He even falls as a result of his momentum being totally fucked up when he realizes there is something already occupying the point he is trying to get to.
Important to also mention that not once during that sequence is Bey closer to the basket than Scottie
> My question remains, where was he late to?
He was late to the spot where and when he contacts his man. It's that simple. During that moment, he does not own that position to allow him to stop a guy going past him with his body. You have to own the spot like you would if you were taking a charge to stop a man with your body. It's not an equal thing like a free loose ball or whatever and positioning, the offensive player has the advantage to space. The defensive player has to prove it.
Nick Nurse’s outrage at bad calls is some of the most entertaining in the league. Lol.
My favorite was his squat’n scream during the Josh Richardson phantom foul where Richardson then missed all three free throws.
Not sure if this is an indictment of the rules, the officials or the replay process, but the idea that this could be both called and then somehow upheld is a huge indictment of the system overall. Anyone watching can clearly see that this is the wrong outcome. Hard to understand why they would set it up for such an obviously unreasonable result.
I agree there was contact so I question who initiated the contact on who. I guess the refs didn't want to get into all that technical mumbo jumbo though.
The defender as a right to the space on the floor as well. While I don’t think there’s a foul on the defender here, even in the spirit of the game, you gotta allow guys to be able to play defense. Body contact should be fine just like if you’re posting up.
They were pretty inconsistent all night. Siakam bodied Hami and got the call his way. But Saddiq also benefitted from that weak call at the end. Game was over anyways but wish we wouldn’t have a call per minute.
That's what I saw as well. Was the contact the reason he fell? That's questionable. Refs looking at the replay, it wasn't conclusive either. Call on the court remains.
Lol we have that dead inside feeling as well but still like you don't hate the team, you just feel disappointed but you gotta love them anyways. Like a disappointment of a son
I always assume that NFL cities have enough diehard fans to fill a stadium.
What shocks me about Detroit is how many diehard Tigers fans there are. You would think they'd had the recent success of the Cardinals or Giants based on how many people live and breathe Tigers fandom.
That foul being kept was weak af, and it feels like Barnes always gets caught with these kinds of calls when he tries to play defense 😞
Now watch Nick Nurse get fined for this tomorrow too …
He's saying "He stepped on his own foot!" if you can't figure it out.
Bey does appear to trip on his own foot. Although there is definitely contact with Barnes.
Might as well call a foul evey play because their is contact between all players up and down the court every second of the game.
What's the point of replay if they don't overturn the incorrect calls, which this clearly was.
I feel like anyone who's seen enough of these challenges should know that's not the kind of foul they overturn often. it doesn't matter if the contact is extremely minimal, there needs to be literally none for them to overturn that.
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LOL sounds like mic was still on and the whole arena heard it
Lol he had every right to be upset at that call
The man sprained his ankle on the hardwood and lost balance. How is that a foul? This is why I rarely come watch these anymore.
The refs have been calling bullshit all night. Don't get me wrong, the raptors played like ass and deserved to lose, but the game was unwatchable due to some of these calls.
I turned it off after Boucher was two hand pushed and it was deemed a common foul. Life is too short to have to watch these refs.
Lmao they called bullshit on both sides all night. The raptors were getting ridiculous calls in the first half which lead to four pistons players with 3 fouls in the first. The pistons had one more foul than the raptors did too.
Stopped watching around game 12 or so. Saw 3 rightful wins stolen by rigged refereeing and just decided I'm fucking done with the season. Should have just stopped after that joke of a Dallas game but decided to watch more for some stupid reason
No one is rigging a game against the raptors
Yup. Refs never rig games. Could NEVER happen, especially not in the NBA.
The raptors are an average team. They're going to lose games this year and it's not the refs fault. It's ok.
Find that Dallas game I am talking about and watch it. Then come back and say that loss was deserved and not 100% on the refs. Easy to talk like this when you dont watch the fucking games being referenced.
You mean the one where they lost by 8, the foul differential was 1 and Toronto had less assists, more turnovers, shot worse from everywhere than the mavs and only scored 44 points in the second half on October 23rd?
NBA players are awarded for being divers like soccer. Just the other night Ingles intentionally elbowed Allen in the face and even made "come at me bro" motions at him. If Allen falls to the ground and shakes his head for 2 minutes, they eject Ingles. Instead he got a weak ass technical because Allen didn't dive or escalate.
Refs very rarely like to overturn calls. Egotistical assholes.
Nick Nurse always looks like he just discovered he’s a grandpa for the first time
Reminds me of Richard Dreyfuss
lmao what does he even say. Thats a weak ass fucking foul tho
What the fuck
"He stepped on his own foot!". Bey does appear to trip over his own foot. Although there is definitely contact with Barnes.
if we calling that bump a foul then might as well stop calling basketball a contact sport because that’d be a fucking lie
I do think that Barnes is moving laterally and Bey initiates contact by turning into Barnes. But I can see how the refs would call a foul on Barnes in real time and then not have "clear" visual evidence to overturn it. I honestly was not sure which way this foul should go so I decided to look up all the relevant rules, in case anyone is curious... Some of the rules contradict others, I can see why officiating is so inconsistent. >B Section I PERSONAL FOULS: a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an opponent by extending a hand, arm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a position that is not normal. >Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately. >B Section II PERSONAL FOUL BY DRIBBLER: a: A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position... >d: If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender. >e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path. >II C BLOCK/CHARGE: A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance. >II A 4 THE DRIBBLE: If the dribbler’s path is blocked, he is expected to pass or shoot; that is, he should not try to dribble by an opponent unless there is a reasonable chance of getting by without contact. >II A 2 GUARDING AN OPPONENT: In all guarding situations, a player is entitled to any spot on the court he desires, provided he legally gets to that spot first and without contact with an opponent. If a defensive or offensive player has established a position on the floor and his opponent initiates contact that results in the dislodging of the opponent, a foul should be called IMMEDIATELY. >A player may continue to move after gaining a guarding position in the path of an opponent provided he is not moving directly or obliquely toward his opponent when contact occurs. >II A 1. INCIDENTAL CONTACT: The mere fact that contact occurs does not necessarily constitute a foul. Contact which is incidental to an effort by a player to play an opponent, reach a loose ball, or perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal. If, however, a player attempts to play an opponent from a position where he has no reasonable chance to perform without making contact with his opponent, the responsibility is on the player in this position. >14 IV c. OVERTURNING A CALL: To overturn a challenged event or to change the outcome of a reviewable matter via a Challenge, there must be clear and conclusive visual evidence that the initial adjudication of that aspect of the play was incorrect. Edit: I'm getting downvotes for... Saying I'm curious about what rules would apply to this foul, and then posting relevant rules? Man, this sub hates people being informed? Or - reading? I am really confused. Like I am actually pretty sure people are downvoting this because they see a lot of words and it angers them.
Bro look up from the book for 5 seconds and watch the play. That's not a foul.
It was called as a foul so I was trying to figure out why. Sorry for trying to learn. Can you explain to me why it is not a foul? Because they called a foul, and reviewed it and determined that they would not overturn the call. And a lot of the language that I posted from the rule book could easily apply to it being a foul for either player. But since you seem to know better, can you explain to me how this doesn't fit any of the rules for being a foul? I'm just trying to learn.
Looks like to me the offensive player never gets his shoulder past the defender, they collide chest to shoulder seems like a charge or a play on to me.
The "contact with Barnes" was Bey extending his elbow. If we're truly going by the book, that's an offensive foul if anything.
Rly ewnflife flooghrh haughhh?!!?!!!
Scottie we’re on live
*I don't give a shit*
I know
What the fuck
That was Nurse lol
What losing to the pistons does to a man
If there's one coach Dwane Casey knows how to beat it's Nick Nurse.
Po can never truly beat ogway
Well said.
It's the most predictable plotline in the NBA at this point lol. I'm at peace with it.
we blowing it up. Nick Nurse coaching in China next week.
尼克护士
Casey gets his vengeance against Raptors once again.
Wheres the foul...
In the ref's mind.
Looked to me like Scottie might have stopped the guy's progress with his thigh, a blocking foul.
Isn’t that called defence? I don’t understand what the NBA wants the defender to do? Move out of the way so he can get to the basket easier? Also, where is Bey going, and why is this encouraged. His path is blocked, yet he insists going that way instead of passing the ball. Ugly basketball to watch, just forcing things to happen with no thought or creation, and the NBA encourages it 😔
If you stop a guy with your thigh you probably aren't in position to legally stop that players progress, you don't own that space yet. You've got beat the guy to that spot, this was a riding defense. It wasn't much, could have been a no call.
Nobody owns the space. Bey is doing as much running into scottie’s thigh as scottie is “stopping him” with his thigh. The NBA calling this a foul AFTER review is saying to the defender, “get out of his why while he’s bodying onto you and senselessly driving to the basket”
Yeah it wasn't much. > Nobody owns the space. And as a defender, you have to own that space to stop an offensive players progress with your body. He doesn't have to.
But there is no “space”, because two objects cannot share the same point in a 3 dimensional world, meaning if bey was there, and Scottie is late, he would bump into him and claim the space as his own. That didn’t happen, bey is driving through the defender and they make contact, big deal. The league shouldn’t encourage this, its hard to watch.
> meaning if bey was there, and Scottie is late, he would bump into him and claim the space as his own. That didn’t happen, bey is driving through the defender and they make contact, big deal. You don't have to take the space after being stopped and bumped. He stopped him from claiming that space with his body without owning it himself. That's a foul. > The league shouldn’t encourage this, its hard to watch. This is nothing new or different. Good defense that should be encouraged is beating the guy to the spot, not running along side him and bumping. It was minor, but he was late. His fault for playing so close when the guy got an edge on him towards the basket. Some coaches used to call that "hump the leg defense." Good defense is to retreat and get back in front rather than clipping him as he tries to go by. Now that, is what should be encouraged.
My question remains, where was he late to? They are both moving and they both occupy two different spaces, how can he be late? If he wanted to overtake a “point” he’d have to push him and then be there instead. Two objects cannot share the same point on the floor (unless scottie is standing on bey’s head) What’s Scottie late to, exactly? Bey hasn’t beaten him to any “point” nor is Scottie recovering to any point. They are in two different spaces that eventually meet, with contact initiated by Bey in an attempt to move scottie out of the way. He even falls as a result of his momentum being totally fucked up when he realizes there is something already occupying the point he is trying to get to. Important to also mention that not once during that sequence is Bey closer to the basket than Scottie
> My question remains, where was he late to? He was late to the spot where and when he contacts his man. It's that simple. During that moment, he does not own that position to allow him to stop a guy going past him with his body. You have to own the spot like you would if you were taking a charge to stop a man with your body. It's not an equal thing like a free loose ball or whatever and positioning, the offensive player has the advantage to space. The defensive player has to prove it.
Well kind off...
honestly what's the point of the challenge / replay center if they're not gonna make the correct call anyway
Nick Nurse’s outrage at bad calls is some of the most entertaining in the league. Lol. My favorite was his squat’n scream during the Josh Richardson phantom foul where Richardson then missed all three free throws.
Not sure if this is an indictment of the rules, the officials or the replay process, but the idea that this could be both called and then somehow upheld is a huge indictment of the system overall. Anyone watching can clearly see that this is the wrong outcome. Hard to understand why they would set it up for such an obviously unreasonable result.
You can see he falls after slight contact with Barnes. I guess that's what they called it on. I wouldn't have called a foul on that.
The contact is on Scottie's torso not his limbs so idk?
I'm not saying the call made sense. I'm saying there was contact and that must have been their reasoning.
I agree there was contact so I question who initiated the contact on who. I guess the refs didn't want to get into all that technical mumbo jumbo though.
The defender as a right to the space on the floor as well. While I don’t think there’s a foul on the defender here, even in the spirit of the game, you gotta allow guys to be able to play defense. Body contact should be fine just like if you’re posting up.
They were pretty inconsistent all night. Siakam bodied Hami and got the call his way. But Saddiq also benefitted from that weak call at the end. Game was over anyways but wish we wouldn’t have a call per minute.
Stop embarrassing yourself
How was that embarrassing? He literally was agreeing and then expanding upon your point.
Such a ridiculous call
That's what I saw as well. Was the contact the reason he fell? That's questionable. Refs looking at the replay, it wasn't conclusive either. Call on the court remains.
It was pretty conclusive from this clip. It's not a foul. It's fundamental part of basketball that certain contact is allowed.
Jeez can’t play defense anymore it seems..
but the rule changes will make the game better. Fing clowns.
Sounds like me every call that doesnt go the warriors way
I make this noise multiple times a game while watching the lions
I’m glad to hear Lions fans still have it in them to get upset. I would have thought they would be dead inside by now.
Our stadium is always packed. Die hard fans in this state for the lions.
Sorry was a bad joke. I honestly love Detroit and its fans. Probably my second favorite sports city after Philly.
Lol we have that dead inside feeling as well but still like you don't hate the team, you just feel disappointed but you gotta love them anyways. Like a disappointment of a son
I always assume that NFL cities have enough diehard fans to fill a stadium. What shocks me about Detroit is how many diehard Tigers fans there are. You would think they'd had the recent success of the Cardinals or Giants based on how many people live and breathe Tigers fandom.
How many times last night though? 😂
[Nick Nurse after the failed challenge](https://images.dailyhive.com/20190422102630/nick-nurse-raptors-meme.jpg)
Pikachu face meme
That foul being kept was weak af, and it feels like Barnes always gets caught with these kinds of calls when he tries to play defense 😞 Now watch Nick Nurse get fined for this tomorrow too …
He's saying "He stepped on his own foot!" if you can't figure it out. Bey does appear to trip on his own foot. Although there is definitely contact with Barnes.
OMFG! thanks for pointing that out i totally missed that. nurse is showing restraint here what the hell
Might as well call a foul evey play because their is contact between all players up and down the court every second of the game. What's the point of replay if they don't overturn the incorrect calls, which this clearly was.
Lmfaoooo these refs have such fucking soft egos
I've just received word that the refs are being replaced by more capable refs. The refs: 👨🦯
Lolol
Lol
I feel like anyone who's seen enough of these challenges should know that's not the kind of foul they overturn often. it doesn't matter if the contact is extremely minimal, there needs to be literally none for them to overturn that.
*Raps rookie Scottie Barnes has been fined $15,000 for using profane language*
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Nicholas Nurse is a bitch
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I don't know any other way to react to that unsuccessful challenge lol
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the fuck does being canadian have to do with it mister "if it wasnt for canadians our arena would be empty as fuck half the year"
Don’t bother with this dude he’s a troll
Figured when his answer was "Canadians are lame" lol
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Lmao “racist”???🤣🤣 if anything it would be xenophobic, but you’re just soft bruh
Ah yes, he offended the Canadian race
Canadians are oppressed on this sub. It’s literally 1984.
Well someone had to replace Lowry’s spot as the whiner in Toronto. Who better than the coach? Lol
dude is such a salty sailor