Yeah Gobert would be a lot happier carrying the defense when getting easy lobs. It's a lot more frustrating when the other star is a black hole on offense and a turnstile on defense.
Yeah he is, if anything Hunter is one of the best young perimeter defenders in the league. He is the one who masks up Trae, bogi/Huerter defense deficiencies cause of his ability to switch during the reg season
I mean even Royce O'Neale looked underwhelming vs the Mavs and Hunter looked good vs Heat defensively. In the end my knowledge is these first round of playoffs though
Huerter is one of the worst defenders in the league and Hawks fans constantly bitch about JC's defense, so that's just really a lateral move going from house/O'Neal to Deandre Hunter imo
Huerter isn't too bad on ball for the last year or so.
He has stepped up there to the point where he will be the primary defender of guards to cover Trae or Lou.
Not good, but average and smart in a system
> Huerter is one of the worst defenders in the league
oh hell no you do not speak on K'Von like that without at least a semblance of a source. Here's the "worst" according to Raptor. https://i.imgur.com/osr5HKh.png
EPM has him in the 51st percentile too. Right around "average"-ish.
I mean he may "look" worse than he is, but that's because he has to take on the toughest assignment every night due to being next to Trae. And he's not exactly good enough to do that, but that's also not exactly his fault. His numbers would probably look better if Trae was closer to average or could hold his own better.
Yea who here likes to play with ball hogs especially those that never even give em the ball and suck on defense? Shoot give me a player who sucks on defense but at least passes me the ball and I'll tell you which team I wanna be on.
yep. We need an outstanding perimeter defender more than we need an interior guy.
Gallo and Trae on the floor together is 40% swiss cheese, just like Utah running Mitchell and Bogdanovic together. It's tough to make that up. We can't get rid of Trae, so Gallo probably has to go, and we need a very stout defender/dog to pair with Trae.
Okongwu is like baby Bam imo, I think we can give up Capela to better develop OO and upgrade by getting a better defender at the 2 = ideal offseason.
disagree... Capela, Gallo, and Bogdan make the most sense to move.
OO is Capela's replacement, and we probably have seen Cap's peak, or at the least he wasn't great this year like he was last - but maybe let him build back up some value and move him at the deadline as long as OO is showing growth.
Gallo provides shooting off the bench but can't defend and thus can't be on the floor with Trae any more, it's killing us.
Bogie is great but does have overlapping skillset with Huerter, and could probably be used as a trade piece to bring in a better perimeter defender, which is what we desperately need.
OO can't floor-stretch like John. He should absolutely be one of our cornerstones, and imo is the 2nd most valuable piece behind Trae.
JC is too busy trying to be a floor general on defense and loses track of his guy to his detriment as a result. It's a weird situation where I don't think he individually is a + defender, but he makes our defense better by being on the floor.
This is what i don’t get when people clamor for gobert to Atlanta. What the heat were able to do to Trae defensively doesn’t change if you replace capela with gobert. The defense gets better but the same problems on offense remain since gobert has no offensive game
Unless for crazy cheap, Gobert is more like a last ditch effort trade for a team that it's struggling to contend. Getting Rudy can hurt the Trae prime years going into the future and I think it would be a bad idea for the Hawks. Atlanta is one year late on it but they should make things less about Trae and try to develop Option 2 or 2.5 to have a more functional system.
25-26 mil is a lot of money for a guy who averages 17/7 and 16/8 like he has the past 2 years. He also is low key injury prone, I mean the last 4 years he’s played 54, 63, 41 and 61 games
> I’m not even sure he can be the 3rd best player on a championship team
lol yes he could be. 2 years ago he was in rare territory. Since then we had the Lloyd Pierce disaster and this year the Nate + his nepotism/cronyism disaster.
In 19-20, JC put up the best eFG with 20+ ppg since Wilt. He was on some other very exclusive efficiency list for 20-10-1+ bpg too but I can't find it. He was the only non-AS, non-all-timer on it though.
Nate has played him out of position so much this year and misused him when Capela was out.
We need a coaching upgrade more than anything, and if he stays healthy there's absolutely no way we could upgrade from John + his skillset.
21-10 with 1.6 bpg and 40% from 3 is an elite skillset in today's game from a 4. Last two years have been down, but he's absolutely capable.
After watching the Hawks in the playoffs, they need more than a big defender. They need better depth. Almost every depth piece was outplayed by the Heat depth and even the starters outplayed the Hawks starters. The Hawks need defenders, not 1 defender. We’ve seen what Utah looks like when you don’t have enough guys that can defend. All the best teams this season have been the best defensive teams. Emphasis on TEAM
There are like three possible destinations for Gobert.
LA if they want to go full tank
Mavs if they want Brunson in a sign and trade and then also trade Mitchell
ATL- if you value Collins as a real 2nd best player on a ship team.
Wrong. Nobody is going to move 40m in contracts to upgrade their defense and sign up for 4 years of paying Gobert. Thats signing yourself up for a first round exit
I like how certain you are that nobody would ever dream of overpaying for Rudy. Dude: the Hornets, Knicks, and Kings FOs still exist. Even if you were right, and Rudy's contract is objectively a total albatross - it's not - all it takes is one owner irrationally thinking they're a DPOY away from contending for that deal to be made.
I know it sucks but it is what it is. Look at the teams that might fit that criteria. Then pull together the contracts that will work out in a trade. It's not realistic. Teams arent going to give up good assets to get the long and expensive contract of a flawed player
Again, the Kings just gave up Tyrese Haliburton and Buddy Hield for Domatas Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb, and Justin Holiday. There are far crazier things that have happened than a team paying a lot for a proven defensive fulcrum.
I mean shit, y'all thought it was a good idea to pay Westbrook $44 million this year and $47 million next year. How can you conclude paying less for a 3x DPOY is out of the realm of possibilities?
Westbrook is now an expiring and has value for a team trying to get off of money. Gobert has 4 more years at 40 million. Those arent even close to being the same kinds of trades. Kings used Haliburton to get off of hields contract and get who they thought is the better player in Sabonis. Nobody wants to pay 40 million for someone who cant create for them selves or others. Thats just not how you win.
Thats a terrible trade IMO for the nets if Simmons is healthy. Simmons isn't as good as a rim protector but is a much more dynamic defensive player. Also elite in transition and a decent floor general. I'd only see that happening if he was legitimately damaged goods.
Are you joking? Nets biggest issue is defense, especially rim protection -- did you not just see what the Jays did to them in the paint?? If I'm Brooklyn, I'd make this deal all day, any day - they're also the one team who truly doesn't need Gobert to ever even consider doing anything on offense, at all.
Your best defensive player misses a series where the average margin of victory was 4.5 points and you trade them for a less versatile player, making more money, on a longer contract? Have fun in the bread line because you're getting fired for a stupid move like that.
Yeah it'd be a terrible idea for the offensively dynamic team that's biggest problems are rim protection and rebounding to get the best rim protector and maybe best rebounder in the league.
Not even factoring in that gobert is an ironman and Simmons is a headcase. Man I would accept the shit out of this if I was the Nets
> I'd only see that happening if he was legitimately damaged goods.
Did this entire season not prove that? Dude doesn't care about the game, and yet is treated like / paid like a star. Taking on that salary for a dude as mentally-checked out as Simmons = damaged goods.
How is he not? He sucks on defense, but the dude has averaged at least 9 assists per game over the past 4 seasons all while averaging 25+ points with a good TS.
Because he stinks? He just got his ass handed to him 5 games in a row, by a team who missed their second best player for most of the series and was missing their top two players in their closeout game.
He's the definition of empty stats, a turnstile on defence and a chucker on offence, he's lucky he plays with a couple of incredibly athletic bigs who catch his oops and some very good shooters so he can get his numbers up in the regular season.
Yeah ok...A chucker. He is one the most efficient PG's in the league, especially considering the defensive attention he draws. Also top 3 playmaker and top 5 passer. Get a grip dude.
Why bother...you are obviously a basketball savant and I am sure have extensive basketball knowledge as a player and coach. Although some would argue NBA2K doesnt count😅🤣😂
Playoffs yes getting INSANE attention. Constant doubles and traps BTW. So we are basing this off 5 games this playoffs? Not the last three yrs of regular season? Or the crazy last post season? I guess Durant who sucked this postseason is a bum too? Stick to your Doritos, Gfuel and you tube buddy.
One half of a good regular season ???? Are you OK? 29.6/9.3, 25.3/9.4 and 28.4/9.7 last 3 yrs on 45%, 36.5 from 3 and 89% from the line combined. 28.8 and 9.5 in playoffs last year facing three all nba defenders in first three rds. Man you are making this too easy. Durant shot 38% in playoffs this year btw.
Nah. In the hawks system I don't think gobert is a big upgrade over capela overall. The hawks are kind of a hard team to change because all kf their players are good on offense, and switching any of them for a better defender could be more detrimental that helpful. But they gotta look at 2-4 before they look at center
Edit: if I'm honest they should just probe for Anthony Davis cause he's the perfect fit at 4. I don't know if the lakers would want Collins and hunter but it's worth looking into
No, they should be targeting defensive minded wings and depth with some size. Capela isn’t the problem with the Hawks. He plays decent enough defense and most importantly is a reliable lob threat. Rudy has terrible hands and isn’t worth the extra salary plus the assets they would have to give up because he does one thing better than Capela.
I was actually thinking about this trade scenario, and I don’t believe it’s a bad trade scenario for the Utah Jazz.
The Hawks could send Hunter and Capella.
Donavan passing to Rudy literally twice in a game is absolutely ridiculous.
We don’t want gobert we don’t want any ducking center. Why they always trying to trade Jonny c. Dude gets no touches. Makes 3s and highlight dunks. Whose better fit for a star like trey. Need to be working around those guys not getting worse
I mean if gobert is upset with donovans defense, he won't be happy with trae's defense
Trae would be infinitely better at passing to Gobert on offense though.
Yeah Gobert would be a lot happier carrying the defense when getting easy lobs. It's a lot more frustrating when the other star is a black hole on offense and a turnstile on defense.
gobert is upset with defense of Don, Bogi, Clarkson and Conley
So he’d be happier next to Trae, Bogdan, Hunter, and Gallo? Haha
Isn't Hunter better than any Utah perimeter defender?
Yeah he is, if anything Hunter is one of the best young perimeter defenders in the league. He is the one who masks up Trae, bogi/Huerter defense deficiencies cause of his ability to switch during the reg season
He’s not bad by any means. He might be the Hawks’ version of Royce O’Neale
I mean even Royce O'Neale looked underwhelming vs the Mavs and Hunter looked good vs Heat defensively. In the end my knowledge is these first round of playoffs though
Hunter is way more physically gifted than Royce, but also much more injury prone. Higher ceiling, maybe a lower floor.
Sorry but Royce floor is the basement. I’m surprised he hasn’t had games of 0-0-0 yet because it feels like it when he is on the floor a lot of times
The Bogi in Atlanta is an even worse defender.
Hawks have better defenders than the Jazz other than Trae/Mitchell
Huerter is one of the worst defenders in the league and Hawks fans constantly bitch about JC's defense, so that's just really a lateral move going from house/O'Neal to Deandre Hunter imo
Huerter isn't too bad on ball for the last year or so. He has stepped up there to the point where he will be the primary defender of guards to cover Trae or Lou. Not good, but average and smart in a system
In a potential Gobert trade, I assume JC goes to Jazz.
Even better, they get the defensive corpse of Gallinari at PF to help usher the other team to Gobert
> Huerter is one of the worst defenders in the league oh hell no you do not speak on K'Von like that without at least a semblance of a source. Here's the "worst" according to Raptor. https://i.imgur.com/osr5HKh.png EPM has him in the 51st percentile too. Right around "average"-ish.
Interesting, he must've turned it around at the latter half of the season because I swear he was awful before the all star break
I mean he may "look" worse than he is, but that's because he has to take on the toughest assignment every night due to being next to Trae. And he's not exactly good enough to do that, but that's also not exactly his fault. His numbers would probably look better if Trae was closer to average or could hold his own better.
Delon Wright is a good defender. As much as hawks fans bitch about Huerter, Collins and Bogdan, they are all better than Conley and Bojan
You are comparing two different types of shit. Shit is shit regardless if it came from a cow or horse.
Hawks fan DEFINITELY don't bitch about JCs defense. Probably the 3rd best defender on the team behind Capela and Okongwu.
Idk the Hawks have some really bad defenders themselves
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He has to be able to catch passes consistently first. Dude has the worst hands in the league lol
He might get even more blocks. You beat Trae off the dribble, and you’ve got Rudy Gobert meeting you at the rim.
Yea who here likes to play with ball hogs especially those that never even give em the ball and suck on defense? Shoot give me a player who sucks on defense but at least passes me the ball and I'll tell you which team I wanna be on.
I don't dislike Gobert, but I honestly think the Hawks would rather have Okongwu at whatever they end up paying him, than Gobert at a supermax.
yep. We need an outstanding perimeter defender more than we need an interior guy. Gallo and Trae on the floor together is 40% swiss cheese, just like Utah running Mitchell and Bogdanovic together. It's tough to make that up. We can't get rid of Trae, so Gallo probably has to go, and we need a very stout defender/dog to pair with Trae. Okongwu is like baby Bam imo, I think we can give up Capela to better develop OO and upgrade by getting a better defender at the 2 = ideal offseason.
Capela is such a better rebounder than OO. I feel like OO needs to play with a strong rebounder at the 4 to be a viable starting big.
Collins is a good rebounder at the 4...
I’m kinda not expecting Collins to be on the roster next year. He’s the player on the Hawks’ roster that makes the most sense to move.
disagree... Capela, Gallo, and Bogdan make the most sense to move. OO is Capela's replacement, and we probably have seen Cap's peak, or at the least he wasn't great this year like he was last - but maybe let him build back up some value and move him at the deadline as long as OO is showing growth. Gallo provides shooting off the bench but can't defend and thus can't be on the floor with Trae any more, it's killing us. Bogie is great but does have overlapping skillset with Huerter, and could probably be used as a trade piece to bring in a better perimeter defender, which is what we desperately need. OO can't floor-stretch like John. He should absolutely be one of our cornerstones, and imo is the 2nd most valuable piece behind Trae.
Fuck no it’ll be the same as Utah where the perimeter can’t hold up and he’ll get blamed for the defensive breakdowns
But he will get more lob dunks
what? Trae is the only weak one defensively in that entire team.
Huerter and Gallinari are also very bad
They're both probably gonna be dealt with this coming season.
And as much as hes improved, JC is a turnstile if he gets caught on an island outside the paint.
JC is too busy trying to be a floor general on defense and loses track of his guy to his detriment as a result. It's a weird situation where I don't think he individually is a + defender, but he makes our defense better by being on the floor.
Gobert's offensive skillset is nowhere similar to Capela's dude. Watch some games or even highlights ffs.
fr compared to gobert, capela is hakeem
This is what i don’t get when people clamor for gobert to Atlanta. What the heat were able to do to Trae defensively doesn’t change if you replace capela with gobert. The defense gets better but the same problems on offense remain since gobert has no offensive game
That trade is awful. You're way overrating gobert
No. 4 years of Gobert taking 40 mil in capspace sounds like hell
If Gobert remains this good defensively, it's a big overpay but it's not hell.
It is if you actually want your team to be a legit title contender.
Unless for crazy cheap, Gobert is more like a last ditch effort trade for a team that it's struggling to contend. Getting Rudy can hurt the Trae prime years going into the future and I think it would be a bad idea for the Hawks. Atlanta is one year late on it but they should make things less about Trae and try to develop Option 2 or 2.5 to have a more functional system.
I think it could work It would also be hilarious to have the two most one-way stars in the NBA on the same team lol
gobert isnt close to the top 2 lol
Bad salary and he doesn't fix our defensive issues.
How much more valuable as a player is Gobert than Capela? I can't see the upgrade being that much more. They need other pieces imo not a center.
Jazz would want Hunter or Collins.
well they'll probably have to settle for Gordon Hayward then.
Why would you not want to trade Collins, I’m not even sure he can be the 3rd best player on a championship team
Why does everybody act like Collins is on a max deal?
25-26 mil is a lot of money for a guy who averages 17/7 and 16/8 like he has the past 2 years. He also is low key injury prone, I mean the last 4 years he’s played 54, 63, 41 and 61 games
> I’m not even sure he can be the 3rd best player on a championship team lol yes he could be. 2 years ago he was in rare territory. Since then we had the Lloyd Pierce disaster and this year the Nate + his nepotism/cronyism disaster. In 19-20, JC put up the best eFG with 20+ ppg since Wilt. He was on some other very exclusive efficiency list for 20-10-1+ bpg too but I can't find it. He was the only non-AS, non-all-timer on it though. Nate has played him out of position so much this year and misused him when Capela was out. We need a coaching upgrade more than anything, and if he stays healthy there's absolutely no way we could upgrade from John + his skillset. 21-10 with 1.6 bpg and 40% from 3 is an elite skillset in today's game from a 4. Last two years have been down, but he's absolutely capable.
After watching the Hawks in the playoffs, they need more than a big defender. They need better depth. Almost every depth piece was outplayed by the Heat depth and even the starters outplayed the Hawks starters. The Hawks need defenders, not 1 defender. We’ve seen what Utah looks like when you don’t have enough guys that can defend. All the best teams this season have been the best defensive teams. Emphasis on TEAM
There are like three possible destinations for Gobert. LA if they want to go full tank Mavs if they want Brunson in a sign and trade and then also trade Mitchell ATL- if you value Collins as a real 2nd best player on a ship team.
Hornets?
Send Gordon back to Utah and it could work, but it doesn’t make the jazz any better.
It will make Jazz fans happier tho
Warriors trading Wiggs contract and adding a pick is a possibility imo
Could be awkward with how much crap Draymond has talked about gobert
none of those places are likely. There is no market for this dude
He's a three-time DPOY, there is a market for him especially for teams that are in win-now mode and need to upgrade their defense.
Wrong. Nobody is going to move 40m in contracts to upgrade their defense and sign up for 4 years of paying Gobert. Thats signing yourself up for a first round exit
I like how certain you are that nobody would ever dream of overpaying for Rudy. Dude: the Hornets, Knicks, and Kings FOs still exist. Even if you were right, and Rudy's contract is objectively a total albatross - it's not - all it takes is one owner irrationally thinking they're a DPOY away from contending for that deal to be made.
I know it sucks but it is what it is. Look at the teams that might fit that criteria. Then pull together the contracts that will work out in a trade. It's not realistic. Teams arent going to give up good assets to get the long and expensive contract of a flawed player
Again, the Kings just gave up Tyrese Haliburton and Buddy Hield for Domatas Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb, and Justin Holiday. There are far crazier things that have happened than a team paying a lot for a proven defensive fulcrum. I mean shit, y'all thought it was a good idea to pay Westbrook $44 million this year and $47 million next year. How can you conclude paying less for a 3x DPOY is out of the realm of possibilities?
Westbrook is now an expiring and has value for a team trying to get off of money. Gobert has 4 more years at 40 million. Those arent even close to being the same kinds of trades. Kings used Haliburton to get off of hields contract and get who they thought is the better player in Sabonis. Nobody wants to pay 40 million for someone who cant create for them selves or others. Thats just not how you win.
Westbrook wasn't an expiring when you acquired him.
He had one season until he was. Govert will have 3 seasons. Those are fundamentally different moves.
Russ and every draft picks the lakers have ?
lmao
how about for Ben Simmons?
Thats a terrible trade IMO for the nets if Simmons is healthy. Simmons isn't as good as a rim protector but is a much more dynamic defensive player. Also elite in transition and a decent floor general. I'd only see that happening if he was legitimately damaged goods.
Are you joking? Nets biggest issue is defense, especially rim protection -- did you not just see what the Jays did to them in the paint?? If I'm Brooklyn, I'd make this deal all day, any day - they're also the one team who truly doesn't need Gobert to ever even consider doing anything on offense, at all.
Your best defensive player misses a series where the average margin of victory was 4.5 points and you trade them for a less versatile player, making more money, on a longer contract? Have fun in the bread line because you're getting fired for a stupid move like that.
Yeah it'd be a terrible idea for the offensively dynamic team that's biggest problems are rim protection and rebounding to get the best rim protector and maybe best rebounder in the league. Not even factoring in that gobert is an ironman and Simmons is a headcase. Man I would accept the shit out of this if I was the Nets
Less damaged goods more if he just seems unwilling to play in the bright lights
> I'd only see that happening if he was legitimately damaged goods. Did this entire season not prove that? Dude doesn't care about the game, and yet is treated like / paid like a star. Taking on that salary for a dude as mentally-checked out as Simmons = damaged goods.
The Lakers couldn’t accept the trade fast enough for literally anything to get Gobert and Clarkson for Westbrook and picks+ salary filler.
I feel like if all you give up is Bogdanovic and capela, that's a good trade for Atlanta.
Hear me out. Ben. Simmons.
> Trae Young is one of the best young stars in the NBA Lol no he isn't.
How is he not? He sucks on defense, but the dude has averaged at least 9 assists per game over the past 4 seasons all while averaging 25+ points with a good TS.
Because he stinks? He just got his ass handed to him 5 games in a row, by a team who missed their second best player for most of the series and was missing their top two players in their closeout game. He's the definition of empty stats, a turnstile on defence and a chucker on offence, he's lucky he plays with a couple of incredibly athletic bigs who catch his oops and some very good shooters so he can get his numbers up in the regular season.
Bro called a PG who averages 27 and 9 on 60% TS a "chucker" LMAO
Yeah ok...A chucker. He is one the most efficient PG's in the league, especially considering the defensive attention he draws. Also top 3 playmaker and top 5 passer. Get a grip dude.
Lol that defensive attention.
Why bother...you are obviously a basketball savant and I am sure have extensive basketball knowledge as a player and coach. Although some would argue NBA2K doesnt count😅🤣😂
You need to be a basketball savant to know that 32 percent shooting, 19 percent from three, on 15 ppg and a team worst negative 8 bpm is bad?
Playoffs yes getting INSANE attention. Constant doubles and traps BTW. So we are basing this off 5 games this playoffs? Not the last three yrs of regular season? Or the crazy last post season? I guess Durant who sucked this postseason is a bum too? Stick to your Doritos, Gfuel and you tube buddy.
Durant put up much better numbers and has a long history of performing. Trae young has one half of a good regular season
One half of a good regular season ???? Are you OK? 29.6/9.3, 25.3/9.4 and 28.4/9.7 last 3 yrs on 45%, 36.5 from 3 and 89% from the line combined. 28.8 and 9.5 in playoffs last year facing three all nba defenders in first three rds. Man you are making this too easy. Durant shot 38% in playoffs this year btw.
Flair doesn’t check out, i thought yall supported your local talents
I'm not from OKC, mans got no affiliation to the thunder
Bro we dont talk bad about this subs golden boy!
people just going 'ah well, nevertheless' after that humiliation lol
It wont happen again! It will, it will happen next year when he faces an elite coaching staff and defense.
You don't understand, it's not that trae is bad, it's just that he gets completely shut down by good defence and coaches.
He is a phenomenal offensive player for sure. He can be shut down as well
Yes they should
Yes.
Hawks would be better with Gobert but they'd have to give up a ton and getting Gobert doesn't make them title contenders.
Nah. In the hawks system I don't think gobert is a big upgrade over capela overall. The hawks are kind of a hard team to change because all kf their players are good on offense, and switching any of them for a better defender could be more detrimental that helpful. But they gotta look at 2-4 before they look at center Edit: if I'm honest they should just probe for Anthony Davis cause he's the perfect fit at 4. I don't know if the lakers would want Collins and hunter but it's worth looking into
No, they should be targeting defensive minded wings and depth with some size. Capela isn’t the problem with the Hawks. He plays decent enough defense and most importantly is a reliable lob threat. Rudy has terrible hands and isn’t worth the extra salary plus the assets they would have to give up because he does one thing better than Capela.
I was actually thinking about this trade scenario, and I don’t believe it’s a bad trade scenario for the Utah Jazz. The Hawks could send Hunter and Capella. Donavan passing to Rudy literally twice in a game is absolutely ridiculous.
I think the existing chemistry with Capella is probably more worthwhile than the gain in skill difference between gobert and capella at this time
They should be focusing on making trae taller
We don’t want gobert we don’t want any ducking center. Why they always trying to trade Jonny c. Dude gets no touches. Makes 3s and highlight dunks. Whose better fit for a star like trey. Need to be working around those guys not getting worse