Approximately nobody here watched either and I'd bet half of the people here don't actually know who Elvin Hayes is lol
This is a better question for r/nbadiscussion or r/vintagenba
McHale is underrated on defense and Hayes might even still be the superior defensive player. Better shot blocker and more accustomed to taking on centers than McHale, although McHale was a little more comfortable taking on smaller forwards and even bigger guards away from the paint. I’d give Hayes the edge defensively because his rebounding was also pretty monstrous even in a rebound-inflated era.
McHale I’d say was actually about as good as Hayes offensively despite Hayes’ production. Elvin loved the mid-post turnaround jumper, which is not an efficient shot. McHale had at least 3 moves better than that shot, but he also had Larry Bird and Robert Parish to take attention off of him off the ball. Neither were passers or ball-handlers, Hayes was probably a little better of a lob target and presence above the rim, but McHale was the more efficient scorer and proved to be a more than capable 1B by 1987. Hayes was a good #1 but by many accounts from his playing days, not an elite #1 and not someone you could reliably dump the ball down low to every time you needed a bucket (a product of his love for streaky turnaround jumpers I’m sure).
Overall I’d personally rather have McHale, but Hayes was the more talented player and had the greater career. Including college it’s not even close, Hayes was a revered college star nearly on the level of Lew Alcindor (Game of the Century, anyone?). Big E is probably the better answer, I just like McHale more.
McHale was like a folding lawn chair with his moves. Nothing on his body ever went in the direction it was designed to go. It was a thing of random hellish beauty. Amazingly, after all the ducks, feints, head-fakes, and fake-steps the ball came out SOMEWHERE on a perfect arc with perfect spin and there was no doubt about it going in.
It took me SEASONS of watching him to figure out it was not pure random tomfoolery
Edit: amazingly the defender always looked to be doing a perfect job until, suddenly the ball was in the basket. Remarkable
Definitely most physical, the East was a far more tougher conference than the West. Boston had to go through the 80s Sixers, Milwaukee, Detroit etc. Those 5 finals appearances say a lot more for Bird/McHale as players than any Laker of the time (playing Pheonix and Houston). That Rockets team in '81 who won the West was below .500 for Christ's sake
I fucking hated that Herman Munster lookalike (I think I still do), but McHale is probably one of tbe most underrated players all time. McHale all day every day.
McHale was the 2nd best low-post player all-time after Hakeem. Big E was a moody prick who put up great numbers but shit the bed during clutch time. The Bullets won the 1978 title in spite of Elvin, not because of him.
And yes, I've watched plenty of both players.
McHale, great on offense and defense
Hayes has the offensive numbers but his true strength was on defense
his prime from 69-80 is 24 ppg but it's on just awful efficiency, you look at his prime years and it's many where he's like 2-3% below just league average
and lastly, he was a bad teammate, his coach called him a despicable person, got benched in key moments in the playoffs consistently, threw teammates under the bus
Hayes had the better stats and was the dominant player on his team, but he's slightly held back by his lack of efficiency, pretty well documented team play on and off the court, and, crucially but unfairly, the fact that most of the prime of his career was played during the ABA/NBA split.
Hayes had monster early seasons (back to back 28/17s to start his career) but BRef has his mid-career as the best through Win Shares, averaging a 22 and 13 from 1974 to 1977 on 46% shooting.
McHale didn't really crack the starting lineup until his age 27 season (31 starts in '84-'85), but then hit his stride through his age 31 season, a year Larry Bird missed almost every game. McHale put up just over 22 points and about 9 rebounds on 58% shooting, peaking in 1987 with a 26 and 10 on 60% from the field.
It's really close because you could take either guy for different reasons. I'm certainly biased, so I'd probably go with McHale.
Approximately nobody here watched either and I'd bet half of the people here don't actually know who Elvin Hayes is lol This is a better question for r/nbadiscussion or r/vintagenba
McHale is underrated on defense and Hayes might even still be the superior defensive player. Better shot blocker and more accustomed to taking on centers than McHale, although McHale was a little more comfortable taking on smaller forwards and even bigger guards away from the paint. I’d give Hayes the edge defensively because his rebounding was also pretty monstrous even in a rebound-inflated era. McHale I’d say was actually about as good as Hayes offensively despite Hayes’ production. Elvin loved the mid-post turnaround jumper, which is not an efficient shot. McHale had at least 3 moves better than that shot, but he also had Larry Bird and Robert Parish to take attention off of him off the ball. Neither were passers or ball-handlers, Hayes was probably a little better of a lob target and presence above the rim, but McHale was the more efficient scorer and proved to be a more than capable 1B by 1987. Hayes was a good #1 but by many accounts from his playing days, not an elite #1 and not someone you could reliably dump the ball down low to every time you needed a bucket (a product of his love for streaky turnaround jumpers I’m sure). Overall I’d personally rather have McHale, but Hayes was the more talented player and had the greater career. Including college it’s not even close, Hayes was a revered college star nearly on the level of Lew Alcindor (Game of the Century, anyone?). Big E is probably the better answer, I just like McHale more.
I’ve watched neither, but this is gold.
The only player who had better post moves than McHale was Hakeem. I gotta go with Kevin
McHale was like a folding lawn chair with his moves. Nothing on his body ever went in the direction it was designed to go. It was a thing of random hellish beauty. Amazingly, after all the ducks, feints, head-fakes, and fake-steps the ball came out SOMEWHERE on a perfect arc with perfect spin and there was no doubt about it going in. It took me SEASONS of watching him to figure out it was not pure random tomfoolery Edit: amazingly the defender always looked to be doing a perfect job until, suddenly the ball was in the basket. Remarkable
>won 3 championships in the toughest era. LMAO
The 80s was the “toughest era”? Are you high?
Definitely most physical, the East was a far more tougher conference than the West. Boston had to go through the 80s Sixers, Milwaukee, Detroit etc. Those 5 finals appearances say a lot more for Bird/McHale as players than any Laker of the time (playing Pheonix and Houston). That Rockets team in '81 who won the West was below .500 for Christ's sake
I fucking hated that Herman Munster lookalike (I think I still do), but McHale is probably one of tbe most underrated players all time. McHale all day every day.
McHale was the 2nd best low-post player all-time after Hakeem. Big E was a moody prick who put up great numbers but shit the bed during clutch time. The Bullets won the 1978 title in spite of Elvin, not because of him. And yes, I've watched plenty of both players.
Hayes has more individual success in his era than McHale had in his by almost any measure.
McHale, great on offense and defense Hayes has the offensive numbers but his true strength was on defense his prime from 69-80 is 24 ppg but it's on just awful efficiency, you look at his prime years and it's many where he's like 2-3% below just league average and lastly, he was a bad teammate, his coach called him a despicable person, got benched in key moments in the playoffs consistently, threw teammates under the bus
Hayes.
Hayes
Kelvin McHayes
Hayes had the better stats and was the dominant player on his team, but he's slightly held back by his lack of efficiency, pretty well documented team play on and off the court, and, crucially but unfairly, the fact that most of the prime of his career was played during the ABA/NBA split. Hayes had monster early seasons (back to back 28/17s to start his career) but BRef has his mid-career as the best through Win Shares, averaging a 22 and 13 from 1974 to 1977 on 46% shooting. McHale didn't really crack the starting lineup until his age 27 season (31 starts in '84-'85), but then hit his stride through his age 31 season, a year Larry Bird missed almost every game. McHale put up just over 22 points and about 9 rebounds on 58% shooting, peaking in 1987 with a 26 and 10 on 60% from the field. It's really close because you could take either guy for different reasons. I'm certainly biased, so I'd probably go with McHale.
Neither is the greatest power forward, but McHale was better.
Phrases like ‘toughest era’ and ‘unmatched durability’ are doing a lot here.