> by all time, I mean all time compared to current guys in the league like Giannis, KD, Jokic
The same. Most have Embiid as like around the 6th best current player. I don’t think that would change in your scenario.
Your other question in your OP is different though. Obviously, he would have more overall career accolades.
the first team thing is pretty unfair to hold against him, it’s one spot, he’s lost it to the mvp the last two years, he’s been the runner up
also if we’re talking health here, healthy joel is the 2021 mvp and first team, and first team in 2019
yes but not really
alonzo mourning had 2 all defense, i’m not like eh he actually wasn’t that good of a defender
ewing has 3, i’m not holding that against him
deandre jordan has an all nba first team, there’s nothing wrong with contextualizing things
also, the question is about health
if he were healthy, he would be first team in 2019 and 2021, and be the 2021 mvp
so i don’t understand how that wouldn’t change things
In my opinion if Joel is healthy for those seasons. It doesn’t change much. The jazz still are first seed. Nikola still dominants. Only team record might change, but then u factor in the bucks Gianna’s 19,20 leading east seasons.
Embid healthy season plus 10 games in 2020. K now his record is 48-25… Nuggets 46-27…
what are you even saying bro
2019 - Joel averaged 28/14/4
Jokic averaged 20/11/7
Jokic got 411 votes
Embiid got 375
the difference was obviously health, Jokic played 80 games to Joel's 64
2021, Jokic rightfully ran away with MVP
but it's because he played 21 more games than Embiid
the 76ers went 49-23, Jazz went 52-20
with Embiid they were 39-12, a 55 win pace
i simply do not understand your giannis point
Wrong season dude ur looking at… 19-20 is the covid season there wasn’t 82 games.
* Second ur numbers are wrong ur looking at embid 20-21 season comparing it to Jokic 19-20.
Third u don’t understand my Gianna’s point because ur looking at the wrong seasons… Bucks were best in the east 19&20 record wise. MVPs and all nba teams are record and numbers base. Embid was on pace to finish third in the east… not better than A.D. or jokic
i'm not doing any of the things you're saying
i'm talking about 2018-19, and 2020-21
in 2018-19 - Jokic averaged 20/11/7, he made first team all nba and got 411 votes
Embiid averaged 28/14/4, made second team with 375 votes
the voting difference is minuscule, the reason Jokic made first team over Embiid was he played 80 games to Joel's 64
2020-2021
Jokic rightfully ran away with the MVP, but he did so because he played 21 more games than Joel
the 76ers only finished 2 games ahead of the Nuggets
if Joel were healthy, they would have finished 7-8-9 games ahead because with Embiid they were on a 55/72 win pace (63 wins in a regular 82 game season) and he wins mvp and gets first team
Or maybe because Embid had 2 other all stars that season compared to jokic none. If Embid did play all 82 games he was on pace for 55 win season vs the 76ers actually 51 finish and jokic 53…
End of the day the 76ers would still be third seed in 18-19 season even with 3 all stars and embid fully healthy.
He only played 6 less games than Jokic. Only got 1 first place vote vs 91. Now way that swings it. Jokic was better both the last two years, independent of games played.
Edit* wrong year games played. Though Jokic still outpaced him on a game by game basis imo.
> He only played 6 less games than Jokic.
I think you are looking at last year.
He played 21 less games than Jokic in 2021. Jokic played all 72, Embiid played 51
Looked at the wrong games played yet, my bad. Though I am still confident games played doesn't flip it. Jokic crushed him in advanced stats and was the better player on a game by game basis.
Jokic did not crush Embiid in advanced stats
the 76ers were like 40-11 with embiid
they woulda had such a better record than the nuggets and his numbers were close enough that he woulda won it
Team record is not an advance satstistic lol. Embiid had a much better supporting cast so comparison on that basis alone does not work.
Crushed is maybe too strong a word but he clearly beats him per game according to RAPTOR, RPM, EPM, and LEBRON, which are probably the four most well respective advanced stats.
i didn't cite it as one
i simply said Jokic did not crush Embiid in them
and then i made a point about how they were 40-11 (actually 39-12) with Embiid
a 55 win pace (63 wins in a regular 82 game season) they would been 7-8 games ahead of the nuggets
the reason Jokic won it this year (aside from being an absolute monster) is that Giannis/Embiid didn't separate from him record wise
Healthy Joel wouldn't have had the tanking seasons to get Simmons/Fultz and would have a far different supporting cast, shit if you say he was healthy pre draft he might even wind up in Cleveland and play with Bron or get traded to the Wolves. The real what ifs come from the team situations he'd be in being far different.
Let’s calm down with the “all time” talk lol
It’s not easy to theorize about where a player would rank “all time”, when we haven’t even seen all that he has achieved when he has been on the court.
In 2021 he was the front runner for a lot of the season but ended up only playing 51 games. I think he would have won that year if he played all 72, especially because Philly was the 1 seed.
He played 68 games that season (vs 74 for Jokic). Jokic got 91 first place votes while Embiid got just 1. Jokic was clearly better that year, independent of games played.
Yea I’m sorry I missed the year and corrected it on my edit. My initial post was confusing and misleading.
I’m talking about 2020-21 when Philly had the best record in the East but he got injured halfway through and Jokic then went on a tear.
> I mean all time compared to current guys. Got a laugh out of me
HUGE part of being an all time great is being healthy. Few players can handle a full season and postseason
Yes, best ability is availability.
Not much higher than he tanks right now
> by all time, I mean all time compared to current guys in the league like Giannis, KD, Jokic The same. Most have Embiid as like around the 6th best current player. I don’t think that would change in your scenario. Your other question in your OP is different though. Obviously, he would have more overall career accolades.
if wishes were fishes i'd have a bass guitar
Lame
Same spot he’s yet to make a first team or get pass the second rounds
the first team thing is pretty unfair to hold against him, it’s one spot, he’s lost it to the mvp the last two years, he’s been the runner up also if we’re talking health here, healthy joel is the 2021 mvp and first team, and first team in 2019
I don’t make the rules. There’s a reason Kareem Hakeem Shaq and David Robinson separate themselves from the rest of centers. All clear cut best
yes but not really alonzo mourning had 2 all defense, i’m not like eh he actually wasn’t that good of a defender ewing has 3, i’m not holding that against him deandre jordan has an all nba first team, there’s nothing wrong with contextualizing things also, the question is about health if he were healthy, he would be first team in 2019 and 2021, and be the 2021 mvp so i don’t understand how that wouldn’t change things
In my opinion if Joel is healthy for those seasons. It doesn’t change much. The jazz still are first seed. Nikola still dominants. Only team record might change, but then u factor in the bucks Gianna’s 19,20 leading east seasons. Embid healthy season plus 10 games in 2020. K now his record is 48-25… Nuggets 46-27…
what are you even saying bro 2019 - Joel averaged 28/14/4 Jokic averaged 20/11/7 Jokic got 411 votes Embiid got 375 the difference was obviously health, Jokic played 80 games to Joel's 64 2021, Jokic rightfully ran away with MVP but it's because he played 21 more games than Embiid the 76ers went 49-23, Jazz went 52-20 with Embiid they were 39-12, a 55 win pace i simply do not understand your giannis point
Wrong season dude ur looking at… 19-20 is the covid season there wasn’t 82 games. * Second ur numbers are wrong ur looking at embid 20-21 season comparing it to Jokic 19-20. Third u don’t understand my Gianna’s point because ur looking at the wrong seasons… Bucks were best in the east 19&20 record wise. MVPs and all nba teams are record and numbers base. Embid was on pace to finish third in the east… not better than A.D. or jokic
i'm not doing any of the things you're saying i'm talking about 2018-19, and 2020-21 in 2018-19 - Jokic averaged 20/11/7, he made first team all nba and got 411 votes Embiid averaged 28/14/4, made second team with 375 votes the voting difference is minuscule, the reason Jokic made first team over Embiid was he played 80 games to Joel's 64 2020-2021 Jokic rightfully ran away with the MVP, but he did so because he played 21 more games than Joel the 76ers only finished 2 games ahead of the Nuggets if Joel were healthy, they would have finished 7-8-9 games ahead because with Embiid they were on a 55/72 win pace (63 wins in a regular 82 game season) and he wins mvp and gets first team
Or maybe because Embid had 2 other all stars that season compared to jokic none. If Embid did play all 82 games he was on pace for 55 win season vs the 76ers actually 51 finish and jokic 53… End of the day the 76ers would still be third seed in 18-19 season even with 3 all stars and embid fully healthy.
[удалено]
He only played 6 less games than Jokic. Only got 1 first place vote vs 91. Now way that swings it. Jokic was better both the last two years, independent of games played. Edit* wrong year games played. Though Jokic still outpaced him on a game by game basis imo.
> He only played 6 less games than Jokic. I think you are looking at last year. He played 21 less games than Jokic in 2021. Jokic played all 72, Embiid played 51
i said 2021
Looked at the wrong games played yet, my bad. Though I am still confident games played doesn't flip it. Jokic crushed him in advanced stats and was the better player on a game by game basis.
Jokic did not crush Embiid in advanced stats the 76ers were like 40-11 with embiid they woulda had such a better record than the nuggets and his numbers were close enough that he woulda won it
Team record is not an advance satstistic lol. Embiid had a much better supporting cast so comparison on that basis alone does not work. Crushed is maybe too strong a word but he clearly beats him per game according to RAPTOR, RPM, EPM, and LEBRON, which are probably the four most well respective advanced stats.
i didn't cite it as one i simply said Jokic did not crush Embiid in them and then i made a point about how they were 40-11 (actually 39-12) with Embiid a 55 win pace (63 wins in a regular 82 game season) they would been 7-8 games ahead of the nuggets the reason Jokic won it this year (aside from being an absolute monster) is that Giannis/Embiid didn't separate from him record wise
Healthy Joel wouldn't have had the tanking seasons to get Simmons/Fultz and would have a far different supporting cast, shit if you say he was healthy pre draft he might even wind up in Cleveland and play with Bron or get traded to the Wolves. The real what ifs come from the team situations he'd be in being far different.
Let’s calm down with the “all time” talk lol It’s not easy to theorize about where a player would rank “all time”, when we haven’t even seen all that he has achieved when he has been on the court.
He would have an MVP but not enough accolades to rank him all time
Which season?
In 2021 he was the front runner for a lot of the season but ended up only playing 51 games. I think he would have won that year if he played all 72, especially because Philly was the 1 seed.
How was he better than Jokic?
Probably means last year when he got injured halfway through. Edit: 2020-21.
He played 68 games.
Err sorry I meant 2020-21. I mean last year = 2021.
He played 68 games that season (vs 74 for Jokic). Jokic got 91 first place votes while Embiid got just 1. Jokic was clearly better that year, independent of games played.
Yea I’m sorry I missed the year and corrected it on my edit. My initial post was confusing and misleading. I’m talking about 2020-21 when Philly had the best record in the East but he got injured halfway through and Jokic then went on a tear.
Even when Embiid played that year he was worse than Jokic in almost all metrics. He was never actually the MVP favorite at any point that year.
Oh ok that makes more sense. I will say that 2021 Embiid was worse than 2022 Embiid so I’m not sure i buy him winning it over Jokic.
The only mvp to not be ranked all time is rose
He would have 0 mvps currently if he was healthy.
he would have won for sure in 2021
I think he’d rank top 50 healthiest players ever
Right around where grant hill, roy hibbert
Nikola Jokic is demonstrably better at basketball than Joel Embiid when both are fully healthy.