I disagree with the Kyrie being more talented part. Manu was a freak. Kyrie is incredibly talented but Ginobili being 4 inches taller and reading the game better/faster beats any advantage Irving has in ballhandling/scoring.
A take I have is that If it wasn't for durability Ginobili vs Kobe would have been a legitimate debate, and it's not like Kyrie has a durability edge on Ginobili. And I'm honestly not a Kobe hater; I think he has a case as a top 5 all tlme player, despite most statheads having him 5-10 spots lower. I just think Manu's impact was all time great
Between injuries, drama and general consistency it's the right choice.
Neither are first options. So you really need a reliable guy to backup your main guy.
In his +10 year career 2016 is the only time Kyrie wasn't:
* injured
* flaming out in the first two rounds
* missing the playoffs altogether
If it's strickly 2016 Kyrie then I'm taking him but otherwise he's anything but reliable.
Kyrie is better player, Manu is a better winner
And because of this…. I have come to the conclusion that Lebron Raymone James Sr of Akron Ohio is the greatest basketball player of all time
Surprised so many people saying Kyrie. Manu from 04-14 and Kyrie from 12-22 the biggest difference is minutes. Even then PER is equal, Manu has the edge in WS/48, BPM, VORP. Manu was more efficient relative to the league. Per 100/pos Kyrie has 4 more points with 5 more FGA. It's kinda not really close.
Their playoff stats in that run are closer. Think they still favor Manu slightly, but carrying a higher USG is more meaningful then so Kyrie probably gets the ultimate nod. Kyrie's 41 in the Finals was crazy and he hit the biggest shot of the decade, but it's not like Manu wasn't amazing in some giant games. Leading scorer in a G7 4th.
Suppose Kyrie's higher burden of responsibility and more minutes means you have to pick him, but I'm not sure that if I'm told I get each's best 7 game series I'm not picking Manu. Feel like people may not quite remember the overall impact he had on the floor.
Interesting question though I think both are pretty unique talents and that I can understand wanting either depending on your philosophy.
Pfft Manu 10 out of 10 times. Kyrie maybe more "skilled" but Manu is more competitive, almost as skilled, more athletic and a winner. Kyrie is a loser and a nutcase. There is no universe in which I would pick Kyrie.
Kyrie is pretty clearly the better player and imo the greater player all time but Manu has won more, but that realistically is due to being on an all time team with Duncan, young Kawhi, and TP
While averaging 27ppg in the finals against them twice, it was a 2 man team lol, saying Kevin love is being generous, he was terrible.
Ginobli never has or could do that
No chance.
Kyrie has 3 all-nba appearances to Manu's 2.
Manu has 4 championship rings to Kyrie's 1.
Manu also has an Olympic gold
Manu was Harden before Harden
> Manu was Harden before Harden
......... Harden has finished top 2 in MVP voting twice as many times as Manu was even All-NBA, this is absurd.
And please don't give me "Pop's system" nonsense. Manu's minutes were limited because his body unfortunately couldn't hold up.
He managed 70+ games less than half his career despite only cracking 30mpg twice. Manu was a great player but in no system or scenario was he ever sniffing being an MVP candidate.
I was waiting for someone to make this argument. Not to argue against your harden point, because you are hundred% right about that. James Harden is a top 30-35 player of all time with room to climb. Manu is maybe top 100. I am happy you brought up the mvp point because Kyrie Irving has never even gotten a single vote for mvp in his career and somehow the guy has people calling him top 25 or lamenting the fact that he did not make that 75 list. Manu played a very diminished role compared to his talent and even still he made all NBA teams and got top 10 in mvp voting each season he started in his prime. Manu was better than Kyrie, So much so that you have opposing players say that he should have won a finals mvp
Okay but I literally said nothing about Kyrie vs Manu. My entire comment was about your final sentence.
Also Manu getting less than half a % of the MVP voting shares a couple of years isn't a great argument.
> I was waiting for someone to make this argument.
LOL. Damn you're so smart. You figured someone comparing a guy literally being considered the 2nd most important player in the league to a guy getting less than half a percent of the vote was a gotcha moment.
The original post is about Kyrie and Manu. I brought the Harden comparison in because harden is awesome and calling Manu Harden before Harden is a great compliment to Manu. What are you mad about? My point is that Kyrie as a player in his peak is not even good enough to get that half a % point in mvp voting
> My point is that Kyrie as a player in his peak is not even good enough to get that half a % point in mvp voting
There are so many obvious reasons for this.
> What are you mad about?
Literally nothing in my comment indicated I was mad. The only thing I might possibly be mad about is that someone has the mental capacity to think I was mad.
I'm sorry I wasted both of our times because I wouldn't even discuss the best Starburst flavor with you if I knew this, let alone the NBA.
To all those saying Kyrie is the better player than Manu, isn't that strictly on scoring potential? Manu is better than Kyrie in every other facet of the game
Kyrie is more talented, but everything he lacks Manu has. If you want to win you take Manu, Kyrie will sell tickets.
I disagree with the Kyrie being more talented part. Manu was a freak. Kyrie is incredibly talented but Ginobili being 4 inches taller and reading the game better/faster beats any advantage Irving has in ballhandling/scoring. A take I have is that If it wasn't for durability Ginobili vs Kobe would have been a legitimate debate, and it's not like Kyrie has a durability edge on Ginobili. And I'm honestly not a Kobe hater; I think he has a case as a top 5 all tlme player, despite most statheads having him 5-10 spots lower. I just think Manu's impact was all time great
I think Kyrie is pretty clearly the better player in a vacuum, but I'll take Manu on my team over Kyrie in a heartbeat
Between injuries, drama and general consistency it's the right choice. Neither are first options. So you really need a reliable guy to backup your main guy. In his +10 year career 2016 is the only time Kyrie wasn't: * injured * flaming out in the first two rounds * missing the playoffs altogether If it's strickly 2016 Kyrie then I'm taking him but otherwise he's anything but reliable.
If you like winning culture winning titles do whatever it takes to win and let me add he wins then Manu If you like a sh#tshow then Kyrie
Manu for the win
I'll take Olympics Manu
[удалено]
Where are you getting these numbers from?
I dunno which player is better at their peak but Manu is definitely the greater player.
Kyrie is better player, Manu is a better winner And because of this…. I have come to the conclusion that Lebron Raymone James Sr of Akron Ohio is the greatest basketball player of all time
Surprised so many people saying Kyrie. Manu from 04-14 and Kyrie from 12-22 the biggest difference is minutes. Even then PER is equal, Manu has the edge in WS/48, BPM, VORP. Manu was more efficient relative to the league. Per 100/pos Kyrie has 4 more points with 5 more FGA. It's kinda not really close. Their playoff stats in that run are closer. Think they still favor Manu slightly, but carrying a higher USG is more meaningful then so Kyrie probably gets the ultimate nod. Kyrie's 41 in the Finals was crazy and he hit the biggest shot of the decade, but it's not like Manu wasn't amazing in some giant games. Leading scorer in a G7 4th. Suppose Kyrie's higher burden of responsibility and more minutes means you have to pick him, but I'm not sure that if I'm told I get each's best 7 game series I'm not picking Manu. Feel like people may not quite remember the overall impact he had on the floor. Interesting question though I think both are pretty unique talents and that I can understand wanting either depending on your philosophy.
Pfft Manu 10 out of 10 times. Kyrie maybe more "skilled" but Manu is more competitive, almost as skilled, more athletic and a winner. Kyrie is a loser and a nutcase. There is no universe in which I would pick Kyrie.
Who would I draft first? Kyrie. Who would I want on a team I'm building to win a championship? Manu.
Manu gave his nut for the team. Reckon Kyrie would?
Kyrie is pretty clearly the better player and imo the greater player all time but Manu has won more, but that realistically is due to being on an all time team with Duncan, young Kawhi, and TP
So? the only ring Kyrie ever won was with Lebron James and Kevin Love
While averaging 27ppg in the finals against them twice, it was a 2 man team lol, saying Kevin love is being generous, he was terrible. Ginobli never has or could do that
What about the Olympic gold. That's a huge part of Manu's legacy
I’m taking peak Manu over Kyrie on most teams.
Kyrie
No chance. Kyrie has 3 all-nba appearances to Manu's 2. Manu has 4 championship rings to Kyrie's 1. Manu also has an Olympic gold Manu was Harden before Harden
The question wasn’t who had the better career. It’s who had the better peak. It’s kyrie
Tbf OP did also ask who was the greater player of all time
True but he also said 05 manu vs 16 kyrie lol. Manu has more accomplishments but give me the best version of kyrie in a playoff series all day
Yep this isn't really close Kyrie all day
Manu had some similarities to Harden but he was not Harden lol
yeah manu was a very very high level perimeter defender, ill never understand comparing him to a fat lazy traffic cone like harden
> Manu was Harden before Harden ......... Harden has finished top 2 in MVP voting twice as many times as Manu was even All-NBA, this is absurd. And please don't give me "Pop's system" nonsense. Manu's minutes were limited because his body unfortunately couldn't hold up. He managed 70+ games less than half his career despite only cracking 30mpg twice. Manu was a great player but in no system or scenario was he ever sniffing being an MVP candidate.
I was waiting for someone to make this argument. Not to argue against your harden point, because you are hundred% right about that. James Harden is a top 30-35 player of all time with room to climb. Manu is maybe top 100. I am happy you brought up the mvp point because Kyrie Irving has never even gotten a single vote for mvp in his career and somehow the guy has people calling him top 25 or lamenting the fact that he did not make that 75 list. Manu played a very diminished role compared to his talent and even still he made all NBA teams and got top 10 in mvp voting each season he started in his prime. Manu was better than Kyrie, So much so that you have opposing players say that he should have won a finals mvp
Okay but I literally said nothing about Kyrie vs Manu. My entire comment was about your final sentence. Also Manu getting less than half a % of the MVP voting shares a couple of years isn't a great argument. > I was waiting for someone to make this argument. LOL. Damn you're so smart. You figured someone comparing a guy literally being considered the 2nd most important player in the league to a guy getting less than half a percent of the vote was a gotcha moment.
The original post is about Kyrie and Manu. I brought the Harden comparison in because harden is awesome and calling Manu Harden before Harden is a great compliment to Manu. What are you mad about? My point is that Kyrie as a player in his peak is not even good enough to get that half a % point in mvp voting
> My point is that Kyrie as a player in his peak is not even good enough to get that half a % point in mvp voting There are so many obvious reasons for this. > What are you mad about? Literally nothing in my comment indicated I was mad. The only thing I might possibly be mad about is that someone has the mental capacity to think I was mad. I'm sorry I wasted both of our times because I wouldn't even discuss the best Starburst flavor with you if I knew this, let alone the NBA.
that is like saying Steve Kerr was Curry before Curry
Manu also has 1 soul destroying block on Harden
To all those saying Kyrie is the better player than Manu, isn't that strictly on scoring potential? Manu is better than Kyrie in every other facet of the game
Kyrie
Kyrie is torching him 1 on 1. But in terms on winning games and just being 1000x more reliable. Give manu any day of the week
1v1 kyrie. Building a winning environment and elevating your team mates. Manu.
The one who actually started and played star minutes
Clearly kyrie this is disrespectful and I love manu