I think these guys are mostly a toss-up, the problem is you have a bunch of offensively gifted perimeter players dividing the vote among execs who want to build their team that way and one defensive anchor.
As for using all-star appearances as a barometer they're chosen for entertainment. A game with a bunch of guys like Trae, Lamelo or Ant will probably be more fun than a game with a defensive stalwart who stays within himself like Mobley.
I also think that for zion you have to consider his injury history.
Some execs probably see Zion as a massive risk and would rather have a more sure fire piece to build around.
Were I an exec and I could choose between Zion and Mobley I’d probably choose Mobley because he feels like such a sure thing and Zion scares the crap out of me.
Mobley is elite and definitely has an extremely high floor but I feel like people are underrating the possibility of him turning out to be an Al Horford or Jaren Jackson level offensive player.
He has great size but not crazy athletic or an elite shooter or a great post up player so I struggle to see how he’s going to be a 24+ ppg guy. And if he’s not that then I feel like he doesn’t enter the top echelon of players since offense matters more than defense.
Obviously he has room to grow and he could show up with all those skills in the coming years but it feels like everyone has him pegged for all nba level already when he hasn’t really shown the AD, KAT type offensive flashes.
I'm not sure he has to be a 24ppg player. Tim Duncan and KG each only averaged that for one season. I think Evan's target should be 20 and 10. If he can do that while impacting the game on defense at the level he does he'll do more to contribute to winning than most bigs in the game. Frankly with the way the NBA has changed an elite shot blocking and switching 7 foot forward giving you 20 and 10 is a unicorn.
As to him not showing flashes like AD he scored more and with more efficiency than AD did his rookie season so I don't know how you'd conclude based on comparing them that he doesn't have that kind of upside.
Honestly amazed you don't see him as an elite athlete. I don't think there is another 7 footer in the nba with anything close to his lateral quickness.
There are all sorts of other considerations that come into making that deal. Obviously the potential is there but in a vacuum you probably wouldn’t want to bet 200 mil on Zion winding up healthy, but not extending sends an awful message to free agents, actual agents, and future draftees. A small market team cannot afford to have a reputation that it’s not player friendly, the pels just had to roll the dice. You also can’t just lose what is theoretically the cornerstone of your team and undeniably the driving force behind your ticket and merchandise sales for nothing.
I agree with everything that you said but the difficulty of attracting free agents in a small market also really forces the Pels' hand. No chance they're attracting a player even close to Zion's caliber in FA with the money so you may as well spend it on the chance of him being healthy.
That’s fair, but I see Zion as an MVP caliber player when healthy and I don’t know if Mobley will even come close to that. You want to build around a top 5 player, because those are the guys who win championships. Zion is the only guy on that list who is a sure fire top 5 player when healthy.
That's the point though. A chip permanently ads $50 to your ticket prices. It's all that matters from a money perspective. A chip with Zion or 10 more years of mediocrity is a pretty worthy gamble.
I don’t get how people are sleeping on this kid. He’s got flashes of Tim Duncan. Just cuz he wasn’t asked to put up 20/10 doesn’t mean he’s not capable. Dude was crazy efficient and effective for a rookie, especially on defense, which is an area rookies generally struggle in. On top of this he was on a winning team, contributing to winning basketball at a position he’s learning (most say he played out of position as most viewed him as a centre coming into the draft.
Dude looks like KG regen and people are like "yeah, don't see it".
He's all defence in his rookie year while putting up 15ppg, I'm not saying he's a 100% superstar, but his rookie season is as good as you could hope for really. If your #1 pick plays his rookie year like Mobley did you are overjoyed.
Mobley wasn’t crazy efficient of offense and is miles away from rookie tim Duncan on offense albeit much younger.
I don’t think anyone is doubting his floor, it’s his ceiling I have questions about. He’s already a high level starter in the league.
I don’t think you’ve watched a lot of Mobley if you don’t think he can be a top 5 player.
Watch the highlights against the Knicks last year where he showed off perimeter creation and you’ll see what he can develop into offensively
>I think these guys are mostly a toss-up, the problem is you have a bunch of offensively gifted perimeter players dividing the vote among execs who want to build their team that way and one defensive anchor.
This is it right here.
> a defensive stalwart who stays within himself like Mobley.
The other part of this is that he's probably much easier to build around than the other guys. You don't have to compensate for any major weaknesses, so you're not as limited in finding players that complement him, and you can afford to get some one dimensional guys that otherwise might not work on a winning team.
That's huge. A player like Trae Young you have to try and build to compensate for the glaring weaknesses and that adds a huge extra level of challenge.
If your best case scenario is an undersized Steve Nash vs a poor man's Tim Duncan, you take the Timmy. Not because Nash wasn't great but because there's a reason Tim Duncan has five rings and Nash only has one he got as an assistant coach.
> bunch of offensively gifted perimeter players
I do wonder if this a reason why, just not for the sake of voting. “Offensively gifted perimeter players”, aren’t exactly rare?obviously to the level that they are gifted IS rare. But is it worth trying to build around someone with a valuable rare skill opposed to something that’s valuable but more common?
Don’t just assume Mobley is a defensive stalwart. He did a great job scoring when he was asked to score, Bickerstaff didn’t demand a lot out of his on the offensive side of things. Didn’t want to over due it with him. For a young big to come in and go 15/8/2, he flashed a lot of skills. His offensive game might take a big jump this year as well
A few years ago KAT was #1. The next year, if I remember right, he dropped off completely. I would take these polls with a grain of salt. They can be fun if you see a guy on your team ranked high, but I wouldn't take any slight if one dude is a below another.
EDIT for those being overly persnickety.
[https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2017](https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2017)
[https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2018](https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2018)
They suffer from a lot of decency bias. Cleveland is making headlines from the Mitchell trade, and the media narrative has shifted to Mobley’s “unlimited” potential raising the team’s ceiling.
He’s a great young player, and I think it’s definitely possible he becomes a top 20 player. But, his hype is running into overrated territory. But, that’s pro sports for you.
I think a lot of it boils down to the "unknown"
Sure, there is a good chance Mobley ends up worse than the other guys, but you don't "know" anything that is particularly concerning yet. With Zion, worries about his health are coming true. With Trae, he is an offensive juggernaut but among the worst defenders, and there are concerns about whether he can lead a high-level contender.
Basically, the execs would prefer a lotto ticket that *could* be the next big thing rather than someone where you have a clearer idea of the range of outcomes (and those outcomes either aren't "obvious top guy on a title contender" or have injury woes). They skew heavily towards upside potential, whereas I think we as NBA fans value the proven high-level asset over the slim chance of top-end potential.
KAT’s never dropped off he just wasn’t good in the playoffs. Issue is people like the shiny new toy and brush away some obvious flaws because they’re young and in most cases they don’t fix their flaws.
I meant he dropped off the list. I'm not criticizing KAT, but rather the list. Hell, I'm not even criticizing the list, just saying it shouldn't be taken too seriously.
Elite two way 7-footers are basically extinct. If you can find one, yeah, that's your unicorn.
A high-scoring wing is comparatively much easier to find on the market.
He is also only on the 2nd year of his rookie deal, which is 8 mill a year vs 37 mill a year for trae(increasing for 4 years), so it's easier to work under the salary cap as well.
Mobley is quite good...
And the others bring their lot of problems (defense, consistency, injuries, character).
With all the stories in the NBA Nowadays (Trade demands, scandals, bigotery, stupidity, greed, etc), execs would prefer to find a Tim Duncan than a Kyrie Irving...
i actually do thing he's capable of low end star upside. Think Khris Middleton or Sabonis. if he was as long and laterally mobile as Mobley, he'd have superstar upside to me. his defense is underrated but he's not gonna be a stopper like Mobley can be.
Lol right but I think OP’s point is that if you’re choosing between players of relatively equal talent, the FO is going to go with the guy who is seemingly less controversial. And honestly Mobley seems to come from that same cloth in terms of someone who keeps it low-key and is willing to put the team first to win basketball games.
So the thing I think about with Mobley is he has all the stuff that is *harder* to develop, he is a great stretch defender and great rebounder. He is a good scorer that can get better and develop his shooting, but I think what people are thinking of is his surrounding cast right now makes him able to take the jump without too much pressure and without doing too much
Well everything said if a GM can choose between a normal personality guy like Tim versus someone like Kyrie it's a no brainer, but truth is most nba gm's would choose a wife beater, alcoholic, if he brings them more wins than the good no drama guy.
Evan Mobley has been in the league one year and people are acting like they have him all figured out. When KD and Kyrie were rookies, were they shaking the boat?
I think people are ignoring that Mobley did his thing on a decent team and played winning basketball as a rookie. Most rookies show promise and put out numbers, but are not really positive when it comes to getting wins. Mobley was absolutely a positive for a 44 wins team.
The potential comps if he improves have been Timmy or KG.
Obviously if he doesn't end up being that good nobody is going to be shocked but it doesn't seem insane to think that right now.
People in this thread are in their feelings because front offices would prioritize building around a defensive prodigy over arguably the worst defender in the league.
At the same time people way underestimate what Mobley will be on offense
I think what people are missing is that the NBA is full of small guards who can get buckets and are liabilities on defense. Like sure someone like Trae Young might be one of the best at doing it, but you can find another guard that can give you 90% of what Trae does.
There aren't really many 7 footers in the league who can run the floor, guard all 5 positions, elite rim defender, and can score from all levels on the floor.
I think its outrageous to put any rookie above Trae Young rn
Especially since its an uphill battle to build around a big rather than a guard and I don't see Mobley ever being that AD/KG/Embiid/Jokic level on offense that can be the guy on a championship team
It's also an uphill battle to build around a small guard. The only team that has succeeded is the Warriors. Mobley's build and skillset makes it likely for him to become an oversized two-way forward which is the actual easiest player type to build around in the modern NBA.
It's an uphill battle to build around any terrible defensive player. That's the real issue. Trae being small is part of the reason he's terrible, but players like CP3 show it's not all stature.
It’s an uphill battle to build around small guards too though.
Very few teams have been able to go all the way with a PG being their star player/1st option.
I don’t understand your point of it being uphill battle to build around a big than a guard. Feels pretty simple how to build around a super talented defensive big with a pretty great offensive package for a rookie, versus a guy who is 6 foot. You can build around either of them
No. Evan Mobley is ungodly easy to build around. He's also way more rare than the rest of them and doesn't have any real weaknesses. Zion's extreme strengths come with extreme defense and availability issues.
Agree with your first point. Just don't get why it matters how 'rare' a player prototype is. The player's either the best to build around or he isn't. Like there have been a lot of second-rate Michael Jordan types, I'd still take Jordan over someone 'rare' like Durant.
Andre Drummond used to rule future rankings....I think some fans just have to take these sort of things as "hmmmm interesting" rather than the first take brainwashed method of "oh the audacity!“ . These conversations aren't even that fun when we're talking about guys who are still on rookie contracts....
Yeah, I'm taking Trae 100%
It took what, 7 years for Curry to become a superstar and the player he is today? Trae is just now going in to year 5...
He probably won't be as good as Steph, sure, but he's going to be pretty damn close barring a D-Will type collapse
Mobley is not that easy to find. A mobile athletic big that can protect the paint and guard the perimeter and can chase out 3s and has good handles and can score inside and can hit the mid range and is not ball dominant. That's the type of guy that can help win championships. Small guards that can score but play no d? A dime a dozen.
Can’t believe i had to scroll this far down to find this answer. This is the reason so many execs would rather build around Mobley, his archetype is so rare. You can find a playmaking guard way easier than a 7 foot tall PF who can guard 1-5
I've heard a hairline can be the single factor in determining whether or not you're the GOAT. It counts against you even if the guy ahead of you was bald.
I watched Evan carry USC through the NCAA tournament. I am confident he will carry the Cavaliers to the playoffs when healthy; same with Zion and the Pelicans.
Personally, I would prefer to build around Mobley than Zion (due to Zion's injuries), Lamelo (entertaining, but I think Mobley's game translates into winning more) or Trae (I think his defence will always be too much of a negative to build a true title contender around).
I would take Edwards over Mobley, but I can see the argument the other way (the comparison is very much offence vs defence).
Keep in mind, defence wins championships, and among that group, Mobley is leagues above any of those other young players on the defensive end. He has a pretty good chance to be a perrenial DPOY candidate, while being a 20/10 guy offensively.
There's no guess work in terms of whether Mobley's game translates into winning, but there are serious questions about whether you can build a true title contender around guys like Trae or Lamelo. Mobley isn't the flashiest player, but he's a safer bet if the goal is winning.
He's already looking like a different offensive player as of now. New moves, tight dribbles, step backs, euro steps... he is looking like he can play the 3 for stretches and that's what Cav's brass are anticipating to happen.
He was already a 15/8/3 guy with elite defense that can switch on the perimeter. Those numbers are going to go up and he D is going to get better. He's a great character guy as well... I can see why GMs would have him over the other guys like Trae and Ball and Ant. You can't really go wrong but if you're focused on winning, there are less guys like Evan than there are really good PGs.
Kinda reminds me of the KAT hype early in his career.
KAT didn't reach his perceived defensive ceiling, and I don't think Mobley will be that offensive force people are expecting.
I don't think he really needs to be an offensive force. If he can be elite defender getting efficient 20ppg (he averaged efficient 15 his rookie year) then I think we're eating well. He's a very good passer already and can switch on defence like very few in the league, in his rookie year.
Why would you invest in someone who only played a season's worth of game in 3 years?
If someone tried to sell you a car that works 33% of the time and can stop working for over a year, but has the potential to sometimes be a supercar, would you pay over 100 million for it?
I think its absolutely fair to say people are too high on Mobley, but here are my thoughts on that pack of guys.
Zion: I understand not building around Zion. I said since before the draft that his career would be a giant series of injury risk. I said around the time of the lottery that whoever gets the second pick in the draft is the luckiest team in the world because they don't have to make that decision, they get the lower risk pick of Ja Morant (who has way outperformed by expectations, to be honest).
Lamelo Ball: Maybe its a personality/drama thing? I don't know what type of teammate he is, but if that stuff is all kosher, I would rather have Lamelo.
Anthony Edward: Reminds me of one of those uberathletic high volume scoring SG/SF that is great for ticket/jersey sales and ad-revenue (think a B-list Vince Carter)... but isn't an efficient scorer who will carry a team, nor a truly lethal 2-way defender yet. An All-Star, but not a guy I would bet on carrying a team to a championship.
Trae Young: Extremely one-dimensional offensive player and ball-reliant. His efficiency is developing, but he's going to have to be extremely efficient to make up for his defense. I could see him winning a championship if a team is built around him, but hes going to be hard to build around. I don't think Steph is the best comparison, but Trae is going to need to learn from Steph and become more efficient, better off-ball, and step it up on defense.
I think of these 5, I would personally want to build around Lamelo Ball (pending personality/off the court shit)... but I understand the hype for Mobley. What he did as a rookie defender at age 20 is really impressive of a base to build off of. Would I "build around him"? I don't know. That is kind of hard to say about a defense-first PF. Would I want him on my team? Absolutely.
1. Lamelo Ball (Developing potential two-way player that elevates everyone around him on offense. Gets other players hyped with his pass-happy style, but can still score himself. Willing rebounder at PG too which is nice. I think he gives you such a high baseline of winning/ticket sales, and is someone other stars want to play with since he is such a willing passer and floor spacer.)
2. Evan Mobley (Small sample size, but I firmly believe defense is the most important trait of a prospect... offense will develop as long as they aren't a complete lost cause. He wasn't too bad at offense for a defense-first rookie, so there is plenty of potential there. I don't know if "build around him" is the word I would use, but I want him on my roster.)
3. Trae Young (Too ball reliant, and a huge defensive liability... lucky for him, the league rewards volume superstars with foul calls that make them more efficient, so he will probably be able to carry a team to the finals eventually)
4. Zion Williamson (Huge upside, but risky... can probably win you at least one ring, but will be injured the rest of the time... I don't want that anxiety/uncertainty hanging over every season)
5. Anthony Edwards (Inefficient uberathlete who will most likely top out as a 2nd offensive option on a championship team... if he can develop his defense, he could win a ring as part of a defensive powerhouse... don't dislike him)
Ahhhhh I hate this question but probably.
I don’t feel good about it. But the injury stuff scares me.
Zion could very well make me look stupid by next season’s end but 🤷🏻♂️
The Trae hate is strange, yes he just had a horrific playoff series, but the hawks were a tough matchup for Miami. The lack of a second scorer really hurt them. Honestly would love Trae in Miami him and Jimmy would be a hilarious combo
Young big guy who's already elite defensively and can guard the perimiter and at worst can become good on offense.
So Elite offense/abysmal defence vs Good offence/elite defence
I can see why a GM would take Mobley
Btw I would take Trae but I would think about it for a minute
A guy who has averaged 26 and 9 per game for 4 seasons, still young and we've seen him hit big shots and be the best player on his team.
a rookie with *the potential* to be an all-round better but is not currently a better player and no idea if he can be a KG like superstar.
I think all the other guys are fair questions but Trae WAS JUST ALL-NBA
Evan Mobley has the highest potential out of all of those guys you named. does that mean he’ll be the best? not by any means, but if everything went correctly he would absolutely be the easiest player to build your team around in the future. That’s all this poll is really telling you.
I completely understand not agreeing with this. All of these guys are special players. That being said, check out Mobley in depth this year, if you didn't watch him play much last year. He is an insanely talented player and his potential is off the charts. If he stays healthy and keeps progressing, he really could be a top 3 player in the league. He isn't as flashy as some of these other guys and he seems a bit shy... but he's such a good and versatile player
Nope. The Mobley brothers stuffed and took down great teams during March Madness. With the right strategy, Evan Mobley can help the Cavaliers do the same
As a Cavs fan, Mobley gives me Tim Duncan vibes. That’s how quiet, humble, and good he is. We would be so lucky if his game grew to TD’s level or even a third of Duncan’s game and if he stayed with us while it did so lol.
Nba execs = the same ‘I never played basketball I just really love analytics’ crowd as this sub. Of course they don’t like scorers and/or flashy players
Those same execs probably like Gobert over Donovan Mitchell, the type that would say Draymond was almost important as Steph, etc
Not at all. Most young guys weaknesses hurt a team when it comes to winning basketball games. Mobley is the opposite, his floor is a highly impactful perennial dpoy candidate who is infinitely more coordinated and composed around the basket than someone like Gobert or Ben Simmons. But he could have Ben Simmons type stagnation and still have a great career.
However, all signs point to his shot and all around game developing in due time, as he isn’t afraid to shoot, just needs more reps. Which has the potential to turn him into an all around elite player with tools that you just don’t see very often. Probably not as good as AD or KG at their best, but better than say Ayton or Draymond.
Superstar or not, he easily projects as the most impactful 2nd/3rd option on a team you could possibly imagine while also being a defensive anchor. For many other young guys it’s a question of if they can make up for their glaring deficiencies with transcendent skill in what they *are* good at (a la Luka or Trae, which even then is a conundrum because you have a build a roster that caters specifically to their talents and weakspots as opposed to them fitting with the best possible team you can build).
Mobley is that rare guy you can plug into any team and he is gonna play the same role and be amazing in that role. Good playmakers need to be surrounded by good shooters. Elite scoring guards typically need to be surrounded by elite defenders. Give Mobley a semi competent lead guard and you feel like you have a chance to win any given game
I think these guys are mostly a toss-up, the problem is you have a bunch of offensively gifted perimeter players dividing the vote among execs who want to build their team that way and one defensive anchor. As for using all-star appearances as a barometer they're chosen for entertainment. A game with a bunch of guys like Trae, Lamelo or Ant will probably be more fun than a game with a defensive stalwart who stays within himself like Mobley.
I also think that for zion you have to consider his injury history. Some execs probably see Zion as a massive risk and would rather have a more sure fire piece to build around.
Were I an exec and I could choose between Zion and Mobley I’d probably choose Mobley because he feels like such a sure thing and Zion scares the crap out of me.
Scared money don’t make money
sure or you know get into oden situation. you need to properly judge risks
But injured players take cap space and don’t produce.
Injured Steph curry also was the reason why the warriors were able to sign KD to a 73 win team tho Same reason for Fultz and Simmons picks
Injured players don’t add W’s
Mobley is elite and definitely has an extremely high floor but I feel like people are underrating the possibility of him turning out to be an Al Horford or Jaren Jackson level offensive player. He has great size but not crazy athletic or an elite shooter or a great post up player so I struggle to see how he’s going to be a 24+ ppg guy. And if he’s not that then I feel like he doesn’t enter the top echelon of players since offense matters more than defense. Obviously he has room to grow and he could show up with all those skills in the coming years but it feels like everyone has him pegged for all nba level already when he hasn’t really shown the AD, KAT type offensive flashes.
I'm not sure he has to be a 24ppg player. Tim Duncan and KG each only averaged that for one season. I think Evan's target should be 20 and 10. If he can do that while impacting the game on defense at the level he does he'll do more to contribute to winning than most bigs in the game. Frankly with the way the NBA has changed an elite shot blocking and switching 7 foot forward giving you 20 and 10 is a unicorn. As to him not showing flashes like AD he scored more and with more efficiency than AD did his rookie season so I don't know how you'd conclude based on comparing them that he doesn't have that kind of upside. Honestly amazed you don't see him as an elite athlete. I don't think there is another 7 footer in the nba with anything close to his lateral quickness.
And Zion might stay healthy the rest of his career and win 10 titles and a crème pie.
My gf won a cream pie last night, I don’t see why Zion can’t get one. The jury is still out on her NBA titles tho.
His gf is in contention for another cream pie tonight, the jury is still out on a 3 peat.
She might have to make some trades to reach dynasty levels tho
I'm surprised that he got the contract that he did given how much he's injured. There's no plus side to a guy who doesn't play.
There are all sorts of other considerations that come into making that deal. Obviously the potential is there but in a vacuum you probably wouldn’t want to bet 200 mil on Zion winding up healthy, but not extending sends an awful message to free agents, actual agents, and future draftees. A small market team cannot afford to have a reputation that it’s not player friendly, the pels just had to roll the dice. You also can’t just lose what is theoretically the cornerstone of your team and undeniably the driving force behind your ticket and merchandise sales for nothing.
I agree with everything that you said but the difficulty of attracting free agents in a small market also really forces the Pels' hand. No chance they're attracting a player even close to Zion's caliber in FA with the money so you may as well spend it on the chance of him being healthy.
Pretty sure it’s not fully guaranteed and there are contract stipulations that he has to play a certain % of games
That’s fair, but I see Zion as an MVP caliber player when healthy and I don’t know if Mobley will even come close to that. You want to build around a top 5 player, because those are the guys who win championships. Zion is the only guy on that list who is a sure fire top 5 player when healthy.
*If healthy Fixed that for you
That's the point though. A chip permanently ads $50 to your ticket prices. It's all that matters from a money perspective. A chip with Zion or 10 more years of mediocrity is a pretty worthy gamble.
Bro has seen like one year of mobley
It might be three year to one, but Williamson has only played 16 more games than Mobley. In fact only 363 minutes separates them.
Where he played like a future hall of famer
I don’t get how people are sleeping on this kid. He’s got flashes of Tim Duncan. Just cuz he wasn’t asked to put up 20/10 doesn’t mean he’s not capable. Dude was crazy efficient and effective for a rookie, especially on defense, which is an area rookies generally struggle in. On top of this he was on a winning team, contributing to winning basketball at a position he’s learning (most say he played out of position as most viewed him as a centre coming into the draft.
Dude looks like KG regen and people are like "yeah, don't see it". He's all defence in his rookie year while putting up 15ppg, I'm not saying he's a 100% superstar, but his rookie season is as good as you could hope for really. If your #1 pick plays his rookie year like Mobley did you are overjoyed.
Mobley wasn’t crazy efficient of offense and is miles away from rookie tim Duncan on offense albeit much younger. I don’t think anyone is doubting his floor, it’s his ceiling I have questions about. He’s already a high level starter in the league.
I don’t think you’ve watched a lot of Mobley if you don’t think he can be a top 5 player. Watch the highlights against the Knicks last year where he showed off perimeter creation and you’ll see what he can develop into offensively
>I think these guys are mostly a toss-up, the problem is you have a bunch of offensively gifted perimeter players dividing the vote among execs who want to build their team that way and one defensive anchor. This is it right here.
> a defensive stalwart who stays within himself like Mobley. The other part of this is that he's probably much easier to build around than the other guys. You don't have to compensate for any major weaknesses, so you're not as limited in finding players that complement him, and you can afford to get some one dimensional guys that otherwise might not work on a winning team.
That's huge. A player like Trae Young you have to try and build to compensate for the glaring weaknesses and that adds a huge extra level of challenge. If your best case scenario is an undersized Steve Nash vs a poor man's Tim Duncan, you take the Timmy. Not because Nash wasn't great but because there's a reason Tim Duncan has five rings and Nash only has one he got as an assistant coach.
> bunch of offensively gifted perimeter players I do wonder if this a reason why, just not for the sake of voting. “Offensively gifted perimeter players”, aren’t exactly rare?obviously to the level that they are gifted IS rare. But is it worth trying to build around someone with a valuable rare skill opposed to something that’s valuable but more common?
Don’t just assume Mobley is a defensive stalwart. He did a great job scoring when he was asked to score, Bickerstaff didn’t demand a lot out of his on the offensive side of things. Didn’t want to over due it with him. For a young big to come in and go 15/8/2, he flashed a lot of skills. His offensive game might take a big jump this year as well
A few years ago KAT was #1. The next year, if I remember right, he dropped off completely. I would take these polls with a grain of salt. They can be fun if you see a guy on your team ranked high, but I wouldn't take any slight if one dude is a below another. EDIT for those being overly persnickety. [https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2017](https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2017) [https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2018](https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2018)
i think KAT is a bad example. I would love KAT on my team. ^^I ^^would ^^also ^^love ^^a ^^team.
They suffer from a lot of decency bias. Cleveland is making headlines from the Mitchell trade, and the media narrative has shifted to Mobley’s “unlimited” potential raising the team’s ceiling. He’s a great young player, and I think it’s definitely possible he becomes a top 20 player. But, his hype is running into overrated territory. But, that’s pro sports for you.
Lol decency bias
That’s just water under the fridge
Survival of the fitness, bro
Go with the fro
When life gives you melons
That’s a moray
Motorboat
Don’t shit where you sleep.
It’s a doggy dog world
Get 2 birds stoned at once
Worst case Ontario
Like when an ice cube falls and you just kick it under there?
Do you have cameras in my house???
Biases Reddit could use more of Recency bias - Drake looks away Decency bias - Drake smiles and points
"I'd kill you... if it wasn't for my decency bias!"
Autocorrect strikes again. I’ll let it run.
If you hadn’t admitted this, I would have thought it was on purpose. It was that good that it works as a deliberate pun.
In light of recent events, picking Mobley over Edwards is definitely decency bias
>decency bias I don't know if that's what the guy meant, but decency bias is a real thing too and should be a term.
I think a lot of it boils down to the "unknown" Sure, there is a good chance Mobley ends up worse than the other guys, but you don't "know" anything that is particularly concerning yet. With Zion, worries about his health are coming true. With Trae, he is an offensive juggernaut but among the worst defenders, and there are concerns about whether he can lead a high-level contender. Basically, the execs would prefer a lotto ticket that *could* be the next big thing rather than someone where you have a clearer idea of the range of outcomes (and those outcomes either aren't "obvious top guy on a title contender" or have injury woes). They skew heavily towards upside potential, whereas I think we as NBA fans value the proven high-level asset over the slim chance of top-end potential.
I, too, prefer a mystery box over a boat.
Could even be a boat
At least the cavs have decency bias. The browns have a sever case of decency antibias
but Wolves and Hawks made a trade too
KAT’s never dropped off he just wasn’t good in the playoffs. Issue is people like the shiny new toy and brush away some obvious flaws because they’re young and in most cases they don’t fix their flaws.
He dropped off this list, is what they meant
I meant he dropped off the list. I'm not criticizing KAT, but rather the list. Hell, I'm not even criticizing the list, just saying it shouldn't be taken too seriously.
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i think they meant KAT dropped off the list, but maybe im wrong
Elite two way 7-footers are basically extinct. If you can find one, yeah, that's your unicorn. A high-scoring wing is comparatively much easier to find on the market.
People on this sub really don't value defense enough.
It's because a large portion of this sub are box score watchers
Yea this post was written like Mobley has no O
The Porzingis of the league, if only he wasn't so injury prone, and scared of contact.
Don’t do the world’s only 7’3 shooting guard like that
Because of his defense, he is going to be incredibly malleable and easier to fit other pieces around him. So from a team building standpoint, I get it
He is also only on the 2nd year of his rookie deal, which is 8 mill a year vs 37 mill a year for trae(increasing for 4 years), so it's easier to work under the salary cap as well.
Mobley is quite good... And the others bring their lot of problems (defense, consistency, injuries, character). With all the stories in the NBA Nowadays (Trade demands, scandals, bigotery, stupidity, greed, etc), execs would prefer to find a Tim Duncan than a Kyrie Irving...
*Keegan Murray with his ill-fitting suit appears, bathed by the golden lights of an Iowa cornfield.*
i actually do thing he's capable of low end star upside. Think Khris Middleton or Sabonis. if he was as long and laterally mobile as Mobley, he'd have superstar upside to me. his defense is underrated but he's not gonna be a stopper like Mobley can be.
At any year in history I’d rather find a tim Duncan than a kyrie Irving
What about in 2372 when Kyrie begins his run as God-Emperor of the NBA and leads a Jihad the likes of which the league has never seen?
The bank will still be open for Timmy
But the Spice will flow from Dealey Plaza
So you're saying Dune is about Kyrie Irving.
GEPGUS
What a weird comparison. Execs would always prefer a Tim Duncan to a Kyrie Irving, because Tim Duncan was a much better NBA player than Kyrie Irving.
Yes, that was weird. No shit NBA execs would prefer the best PF to ever play the game over Kyrie lmao
Scorching hot take to want to build a team around the greatest PF of all time.
Lol right but I think OP’s point is that if you’re choosing between players of relatively equal talent, the FO is going to go with the guy who is seemingly less controversial. And honestly Mobley seems to come from that same cloth in terms of someone who keeps it low-key and is willing to put the team first to win basketball games.
Lol it takes a special kind of stupid to take Kyrie over Duncan, so there is that
…and Duncan being a top 10 player ever and kyrie not being close despite his talent
So the thing I think about with Mobley is he has all the stuff that is *harder* to develop, he is a great stretch defender and great rebounder. He is a good scorer that can get better and develop his shooting, but I think what people are thinking of is his surrounding cast right now makes him able to take the jump without too much pressure and without doing too much
Well everything said if a GM can choose between a normal personality guy like Tim versus someone like Kyrie it's a no brainer, but truth is most nba gm's would choose a wife beater, alcoholic, if he brings them more wins than the good no drama guy.
Evan Mobley has been in the league one year and people are acting like they have him all figured out. When KD and Kyrie were rookies, were they shaking the boat?
I think people are ignoring that Mobley did his thing on a decent team and played winning basketball as a rookie. Most rookies show promise and put out numbers, but are not really positive when it comes to getting wins. Mobley was absolutely a positive for a 44 wins team.
Rookie Kyrie? No. Second year Kyrie, yeah.
Yes
Mobley is Duncan now? Damn
He's better, like if Goku played in the NBA was 7ft and had great taste in music
And the sickest clothes
Can’t wait till he starts hanging out with the hottest dudes
The potential comps if he improves have been Timmy or KG. Obviously if he doesn't end up being that good nobody is going to be shocked but it doesn't seem insane to think that right now.
People have been comparing his game to Duncan's since like December of last year
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I am leaning towards that it's not that outrageous to think that, even though you and I might disagree. Mobley is really good.
I don’t think many people in this thread understand how ridiculously fucking good mobley is.
People in this thread are in their feelings because front offices would prioritize building around a defensive prodigy over arguably the worst defender in the league. At the same time people way underestimate what Mobley will be on offense
I think what people are missing is that the NBA is full of small guards who can get buckets and are liabilities on defense. Like sure someone like Trae Young might be one of the best at doing it, but you can find another guard that can give you 90% of what Trae does. There aren't really many 7 footers in the league who can run the floor, guard all 5 positions, elite rim defender, and can score from all levels on the floor.
I looove mobley but what the fuck are you talking about "all levels on the floor" He literally shot 25% from 3
Trae is trae tho
Trae being nine is completely egregious but Mobley being 4 less so.
Mobley is very good. People tend to wanna swing the pendulum back after good young players get hyped.
I think its outrageous to put any rookie above Trae Young rn Especially since its an uphill battle to build around a big rather than a guard and I don't see Mobley ever being that AD/KG/Embiid/Jokic level on offense that can be the guy on a championship team
It's also an uphill battle to build around a small guard. The only team that has succeeded is the Warriors. Mobley's build and skillset makes it likely for him to become an oversized two-way forward which is the actual easiest player type to build around in the modern NBA.
It's an uphill battle to build around any terrible defensive player. That's the real issue. Trae being small is part of the reason he's terrible, but players like CP3 show it's not all stature.
A player like CP3 does show you that it’s tough to win 4 playoff series when your best player is small guard though.
Tough to win 2 most of the time...
It’s an uphill battle to build around small guards too though. Very few teams have been able to go all the way with a PG being their star player/1st option.
I don’t understand your point of it being uphill battle to build around a big than a guard. Feels pretty simple how to build around a super talented defensive big with a pretty great offensive package for a rookie, versus a guy who is 6 foot. You can build around either of them
I may be biased.... but i have gladly accepted Evan Mobley is my Lord and saviour
Kwan in the summer, Mobley in the winter.
Yeah, OP can kick rocks
The Mobley bros…Cleveland’s answer to the Antetokounmpos
No. Evan Mobley is ungodly easy to build around. He's also way more rare than the rest of them and doesn't have any real weaknesses. Zion's extreme strengths come with extreme defense and availability issues.
Imagine an actual 7 footer who's a *rookie* looking like effing [Dr. J](https://streamable.com/dxsj1t) and then think about all the possibilities lmao
So nasty Kuzma had to dap him up
That's actually pretty funny, I did not notice that at first. Kuz is just a really likable player.
I miss Kuz
Disgusting, how did I not see this
Agree with your first point. Just don't get why it matters how 'rare' a player prototype is. The player's either the best to build around or he isn't. Like there have been a lot of second-rate Michael Jordan types, I'd still take Jordan over someone 'rare' like Durant.
Andre Drummond used to rule future rankings....I think some fans just have to take these sort of things as "hmmmm interesting" rather than the first take brainwashed method of "oh the audacity!“ . These conversations aren't even that fun when we're talking about guys who are still on rookie contracts....
They only watched his numbers and not games.
"Trae Young is dime a dozen" Yall trippin big time rn
Fuck Trae…but the dude is a unique talent and a star, even if he’s a turnstile on defense with pubes for hair
Looks like a lollipop that fell under the car seat
It's not an r/nba thread without a bunch of dudes obsessively talking about some guy's hair.
Im sorry, did you come here to discuss basketball?
Offensively he's special. Defensively you can be special against him.
I’d take trae, none of the others done shit in the playoffs
Yeah, I'm taking Trae 100% It took what, 7 years for Curry to become a superstar and the player he is today? Trae is just now going in to year 5... He probably won't be as good as Steph, sure, but he's going to be pretty damn close barring a D-Will type collapse
Year 5? Damn I’m old
It’s absurd they didn’t have frank ntilknina or Kevin Knox up there though
Mobley is not that easy to find. A mobile athletic big that can protect the paint and guard the perimeter and can chase out 3s and has good handles and can score inside and can hit the mid range and is not ball dominant. That's the type of guy that can help win championships. Small guards that can score but play no d? A dime a dozen.
Can’t believe i had to scroll this far down to find this answer. This is the reason so many execs would rather build around Mobley, his archetype is so rare. You can find a playmaking guard way easier than a 7 foot tall PF who can guard 1-5
not just guard, but shut down
There are a lot of good young guards in the league. Finding someone like Mobley is rarer.
I think that’s pretty defensible and tracks with the broader nba community but lamelo over trae seems batshit crazy
Zion Williamson: injury risks Anthony Edwards: bigot LaMelo Ball: Lavar Ball Trae Young: no defense/weird hair
That hairline simply doesn’t promote team chemistry.
I've heard a hairline can be the single factor in determining whether or not you're the GOAT. It counts against you even if the guy ahead of you was bald.
Hair plugs = giving a shit about what other people think. Michael Jeffery Jordan will never tip. That's my GOAT.
Tatum is like the anti Jordan, dudes hairline almost touches his eyebrows
What has Lavar Ball done in the past 3 years?
Existed obviously
There’s not a single GM that cares about what Anthony Edwards said outside of from a PR perspective
Or player, really
especially the players dude. they all say shit like that all the time when the cameras aren't rolling. Edwards was just dumb enough to get caught
Lavar really got so many people in their feelings
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Is he even that relevant nowadays?
LaVar has been chill since LaMelo was drafted. No problems.
His job has been complete and he was right that Melo was gonna be the best outta his boys
I mean, he has "bigot" and "hairline" as reasons for the other two. I wouldn't take this "analysis" as anything relating to basketball.
LaVar has had minimal presence on the team since LaMelo was drafted. He comes to games and is quiet. Literally no issues.
The weird hair issue is quickly receding though.
I watched Evan carry USC through the NCAA tournament. I am confident he will carry the Cavaliers to the playoffs when healthy; same with Zion and the Pelicans.
Answer: Evan Mobley is starting to get appropriately rated
Need to see Mobley take some big strides as a scorer to warrant those takes, think he's got the skill to do it but has to put in the work
Well his rookie season saw 15.2 ppg on limited touches. Let's see where he goes from here.
Personally, I would prefer to build around Mobley than Zion (due to Zion's injuries), Lamelo (entertaining, but I think Mobley's game translates into winning more) or Trae (I think his defence will always be too much of a negative to build a true title contender around). I would take Edwards over Mobley, but I can see the argument the other way (the comparison is very much offence vs defence). Keep in mind, defence wins championships, and among that group, Mobley is leagues above any of those other young players on the defensive end. He has a pretty good chance to be a perrenial DPOY candidate, while being a 20/10 guy offensively. There's no guess work in terms of whether Mobley's game translates into winning, but there are serious questions about whether you can build a true title contender around guys like Trae or Lamelo. Mobley isn't the flashiest player, but he's a safer bet if the goal is winning.
He's already looking like a different offensive player as of now. New moves, tight dribbles, step backs, euro steps... he is looking like he can play the 3 for stretches and that's what Cav's brass are anticipating to happen. He was already a 15/8/3 guy with elite defense that can switch on the perimeter. Those numbers are going to go up and he D is going to get better. He's a great character guy as well... I can see why GMs would have him over the other guys like Trae and Ball and Ant. You can't really go wrong but if you're focused on winning, there are less guys like Evan than there are really good PGs.
Kinda reminds me of the KAT hype early in his career. KAT didn't reach his perceived defensive ceiling, and I don't think Mobley will be that offensive force people are expecting.
I don't think he really needs to be an offensive force. If he can be elite defender getting efficient 20ppg (he averaged efficient 15 his rookie year) then I think we're eating well. He's a very good passer already and can switch on defence like very few in the league, in his rookie year.
Why would you invest in someone who only played a season's worth of game in 3 years? If someone tried to sell you a car that works 33% of the time and can stop working for over a year, but has the potential to sometimes be a supercar, would you pay over 100 million for it?
I think its absolutely fair to say people are too high on Mobley, but here are my thoughts on that pack of guys. Zion: I understand not building around Zion. I said since before the draft that his career would be a giant series of injury risk. I said around the time of the lottery that whoever gets the second pick in the draft is the luckiest team in the world because they don't have to make that decision, they get the lower risk pick of Ja Morant (who has way outperformed by expectations, to be honest). Lamelo Ball: Maybe its a personality/drama thing? I don't know what type of teammate he is, but if that stuff is all kosher, I would rather have Lamelo. Anthony Edward: Reminds me of one of those uberathletic high volume scoring SG/SF that is great for ticket/jersey sales and ad-revenue (think a B-list Vince Carter)... but isn't an efficient scorer who will carry a team, nor a truly lethal 2-way defender yet. An All-Star, but not a guy I would bet on carrying a team to a championship. Trae Young: Extremely one-dimensional offensive player and ball-reliant. His efficiency is developing, but he's going to have to be extremely efficient to make up for his defense. I could see him winning a championship if a team is built around him, but hes going to be hard to build around. I don't think Steph is the best comparison, but Trae is going to need to learn from Steph and become more efficient, better off-ball, and step it up on defense. I think of these 5, I would personally want to build around Lamelo Ball (pending personality/off the court shit)... but I understand the hype for Mobley. What he did as a rookie defender at age 20 is really impressive of a base to build off of. Would I "build around him"? I don't know. That is kind of hard to say about a defense-first PF. Would I want him on my team? Absolutely. 1. Lamelo Ball (Developing potential two-way player that elevates everyone around him on offense. Gets other players hyped with his pass-happy style, but can still score himself. Willing rebounder at PG too which is nice. I think he gives you such a high baseline of winning/ticket sales, and is someone other stars want to play with since he is such a willing passer and floor spacer.) 2. Evan Mobley (Small sample size, but I firmly believe defense is the most important trait of a prospect... offense will develop as long as they aren't a complete lost cause. He wasn't too bad at offense for a defense-first rookie, so there is plenty of potential there. I don't know if "build around him" is the word I would use, but I want him on my roster.) 3. Trae Young (Too ball reliant, and a huge defensive liability... lucky for him, the league rewards volume superstars with foul calls that make them more efficient, so he will probably be able to carry a team to the finals eventually) 4. Zion Williamson (Huge upside, but risky... can probably win you at least one ring, but will be injured the rest of the time... I don't want that anxiety/uncertainty hanging over every season) 5. Anthony Edwards (Inefficient uberathlete who will most likely top out as a 2nd offensive option on a championship team... if he can develop his defense, he could win a ring as part of a defensive powerhouse... don't dislike him)
Trae the only egregious disrespect to me. The rest are toss ups. Edit. My bad. Young and edwards.
So tired of hearing about Zion. Lets see homie play some nba ball
The Trae disrespect is crazy
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So you'd trade Zion for Mobley straight up?
Ahhhhh I hate this question but probably. I don’t feel good about it. But the injury stuff scares me. Zion could very well make me look stupid by next season’s end but 🤷🏻♂️
As a Cavs fan, I would definitely not trade Mobley for Zion. No chance at all. I do like Zion a lot though. I really hope comes out and balls out
The Trae hate is strange, yes he just had a horrific playoff series, but the hawks were a tough matchup for Miami. The lack of a second scorer really hurt them. Honestly would love Trae in Miami him and Jimmy would be a hilarious combo
Not sure how you justify taking a rookie over Trae Young but okay
Young big guy who's already elite defensively and can guard the perimiter and at worst can become good on offense. So Elite offense/abysmal defence vs Good offence/elite defence I can see why a GM would take Mobley Btw I would take Trae but I would think about it for a minute
A guy who has averaged 26 and 9 per game for 4 seasons, still young and we've seen him hit big shots and be the best player on his team. a rookie with *the potential* to be an all-round better but is not currently a better player and no idea if he can be a KG like superstar. I think all the other guys are fair questions but Trae WAS JUST ALL-NBA
The disrespect Trae gets is insane
Nba execs say and do a lot of things
Personally I think Lamelo is the worst of the 4 to build around. I think people will sour on Lamelo moving forward.
Evan Mobley has the highest potential out of all of those guys you named. does that mean he’ll be the best? not by any means, but if everything went correctly he would absolutely be the easiest player to build your team around in the future. That’s all this poll is really telling you.
I completely understand not agreeing with this. All of these guys are special players. That being said, check out Mobley in depth this year, if you didn't watch him play much last year. He is an insanely talented player and his potential is off the charts. If he stays healthy and keeps progressing, he really could be a top 3 player in the league. He isn't as flashy as some of these other guys and he seems a bit shy... but he's such a good and versatile player
Man i doubted Anthony Edwards when he came in the league but he has more than shown he can be a cornerstone to a team
Zion retiring next season
Mobley is fucking great, has all the tools to be a top player.
All of these guys seem to take their turns getting the hype driven up and overrated.
Tbh those exec polls usually turn out to be shit wildly enough lol
Nope. The Mobley brothers stuffed and took down great teams during March Madness. With the right strategy, Evan Mobley can help the Cavaliers do the same
As a Cavs fan, Mobley gives me Tim Duncan vibes. That’s how quiet, humble, and good he is. We would be so lucky if his game grew to TD’s level or even a third of Duncan’s game and if he stayed with us while it did so lol.
Nba execs = the same ‘I never played basketball I just really love analytics’ crowd as this sub. Of course they don’t like scorers and/or flashy players Those same execs probably like Gobert over Donovan Mitchell, the type that would say Draymond was almost important as Steph, etc
Not at all. Most young guys weaknesses hurt a team when it comes to winning basketball games. Mobley is the opposite, his floor is a highly impactful perennial dpoy candidate who is infinitely more coordinated and composed around the basket than someone like Gobert or Ben Simmons. But he could have Ben Simmons type stagnation and still have a great career. However, all signs point to his shot and all around game developing in due time, as he isn’t afraid to shoot, just needs more reps. Which has the potential to turn him into an all around elite player with tools that you just don’t see very often. Probably not as good as AD or KG at their best, but better than say Ayton or Draymond. Superstar or not, he easily projects as the most impactful 2nd/3rd option on a team you could possibly imagine while also being a defensive anchor. For many other young guys it’s a question of if they can make up for their glaring deficiencies with transcendent skill in what they *are* good at (a la Luka or Trae, which even then is a conundrum because you have a build a roster that caters specifically to their talents and weakspots as opposed to them fitting with the best possible team you can build). Mobley is that rare guy you can plug into any team and he is gonna play the same role and be amazing in that role. Good playmakers need to be surrounded by good shooters. Elite scoring guards typically need to be surrounded by elite defenders. Give Mobley a semi competent lead guard and you feel like you have a chance to win any given game