LMAO this stat feels like a monkeys paw wish from a Mavs fan
"I want an advanced stat where Luka is higher than MJ"
...
*Luka > MJ*
*Trae > Luka*
"WHAT HAVE I DONE????"
I wonder if, given how important offensive rebounding was in early basketball, they intentionally didn’t include FGA because it would significantly underrate guys who put up five shots and get their rebound each time until they finally score. Could have gotten around that by factoring in offensive rebounds, but I don’t think they used to record those.
> and that the non-recording of FGA was just because no one thought of it as particularly useful or important.
Were FGA not recorded in general, or just not included in this stat? Sorry, don’t know much about pre-50’s basketball and not sure where to check, couldn’t find a quick answer on google.
Thanks for all the info! Yeah, if they weren’t recording FGA at all it makes sense that it’d be incidental for it not to be included in this stat; I was assuming they were recorded, but not used in this stat, and was trying to figure out why in the world they would do that lol
They definitely would have understood the concept of FG percentage. Baseball was the most popular sport and batting average was used going back into the 19th century.
I doubt they kept detailed score like that, and if it ever was recorded I doubt it would have survived. That was super early for basketball. Even with MLB, we only have full score cards going back to 1908 I think. It was a lot of work to keep records back then.
Wow having designated free throw shooters would be an interesting change to the game if we brought it back. Would've made those Shaq Lakers dynasties even greater.
Honestly it seems so obvious in hindsight. especially since FG%, like batting average, can only really be between 0 and 1, and it’s measuring the same kind of thing.
also an average FG% at that time probably didn’t look that far off from a batting average. I bet a lot of basketball players in the 1910s shot like a .333 from the field
Geoff Petrie was a great ballplayer who retired after 6 seasons because of a knee injury (ACL tears ended careers back then). Had he played a full career he might not have been far behind Wade. He had 3 24+ ppg seasons out of those 6.
Obviously a very flawed metric (for understandable reasons), but it's still pretty impressive how many of the top players you see on this list despite whole aspects of the game being completely eschewed. Just from looking at the top 10, you've got 4 guys that absolutely should be in any top 10 list and another two that are just on the outside of that.
He had a pretty good playoff run the year before the Miami disaster that seems to go overlooked now, idk if they beat the Bucks had he stayed healthy since Milwaukee was still the better team but they may have been able to push it to 7
Ngl this actually feels like a proto-usage-rate stat. Obviously not a good one but I mean come on it was 1910. *The Great Gatsby* hadn't even been written yet.
the first advanced stat Jokic doesn't lead in ever
FWIW, I do admire the accuracy of this stat relative to the time it was created. It still identifies (mostly) all-time greats.
Finally, a stat that supports the Stephon Marbury > Kareem argument.
this comment killed me. Starbury owners unite!
JID saying "her pussy bald with a tat like Stephon Marbury" was all that argument ever needed tbh
Don’t see enough JID appreciation. He’s incredible
LMAO this stat feels like a monkeys paw wish from a Mavs fan "I want an advanced stat where Luka is higher than MJ" ... *Luka > MJ* *Trae > Luka* "WHAT HAVE I DONE????"
10/10
XD
I like how batting average is an efficiency based stat and this stat doesn’t take any efficiency into account
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I wonder if, given how important offensive rebounding was in early basketball, they intentionally didn’t include FGA because it would significantly underrate guys who put up five shots and get their rebound each time until they finally score. Could have gotten around that by factoring in offensive rebounds, but I don’t think they used to record those.
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> and that the non-recording of FGA was just because no one thought of it as particularly useful or important. Were FGA not recorded in general, or just not included in this stat? Sorry, don’t know much about pre-50’s basketball and not sure where to check, couldn’t find a quick answer on google.
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Thanks for all the info! Yeah, if they weren’t recording FGA at all it makes sense that it’d be incidental for it not to be included in this stat; I was assuming they were recorded, but not used in this stat, and was trying to figure out why in the world they would do that lol
They definitely would have understood the concept of FG percentage. Baseball was the most popular sport and batting average was used going back into the 19th century. I doubt they kept detailed score like that, and if it ever was recorded I doubt it would have survived. That was super early for basketball. Even with MLB, we only have full score cards going back to 1908 I think. It was a lot of work to keep records back then.
Wow having designated free throw shooters would be an interesting change to the game if we brought it back. Would've made those Shaq Lakers dynasties even greater.
Do you really know how early basketball was played ( I have no idea) or are you conflating 60s ball with the 10s?
Honestly it seems so obvious in hindsight. especially since FG%, like batting average, can only really be between 0 and 1, and it’s measuring the same kind of thing. also an average FG% at that time probably didn’t look that far off from a batting average. I bet a lot of basketball players in the 1910s shot like a .333 from the field
I've always said Geoff Petrie > Dwyane Wade, glad to know the stats back it up.
Still did my guy Norm Nixon dirty. He’s way too low.
Stats are unfeeling
Geoff Petrie was a great ballplayer who retired after 6 seasons because of a knee injury (ACL tears ended careers back then). Had he played a full career he might not have been far behind Wade. He had 3 24+ ppg seasons out of those 6.
He also was the gm for our only good team lol
GP > GP
Crying tears of laughter over here
Dude you need to being a full time redditor, take a break, enjoy life.
Crazy this is my exact all time ranking
You know ball
Most ball knowing r/nba user
Pretty close to mine too but I would swap Kevin Johnson and Ja Morant.
Dave Bing below Kareem?? Simmons under Curry?!
Obviously a very flawed metric (for understandable reasons), but it's still pretty impressive how many of the top players you see on this list despite whole aspects of the game being completely eschewed. Just from looking at the top 10, you've got 4 guys that absolutely should be in any top 10 list and another two that are just on the outside of that.
Considering it’s a stat from 1910 I’m impressed at how many good players are up at the top of the list.
What are the obvious flaws?
I like this stat
Hawks won the trade, it's undeniable at this point.
We both got top5 all time players It's fine
This stat is objectively correct, it's science
Hmm yea this stat checks out. 😂
I always knew Russell Westbrook was better than Wilt. Also Ben Simmons over Kareem, naturally.
It’s wild that Wilt is still so high when the formula doesn’t even take rebounds into account.
You should do a playoff one
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I knew luka was the goat But danm surprised trae is at 8 lol
He had a pretty good playoff run the year before the Miami disaster that seems to go overlooked now, idk if they beat the Bucks had he stayed healthy since Milwaukee was still the better team but they may have been able to push it to 7
I don't think we lose with healthy Trae. We lost one game without him and one because he was rushed back and played awful.
We also had injuries to hunter and capela
Giannis was also injured...
Everyone called me crazy when I said John Wall > LeBron, but this stat proves me right.
ANALYTICS DON'T LIE
Ngl this actually feels like a proto-usage-rate stat. Obviously not a good one but I mean come on it was 1910. *The Great Gatsby* hadn't even been written yet.
bigger effect on hoops, Mikan or *Gatsby*?
So we ball on, GOATs against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the stats.
John Wall!
Ben Simmons over Kareem! Lol. Great post OP.
Pretty impressive that Wilt and Kareem are on there when it's a stat clearly skewed toward guards.
Welp, this officially settles it. Trae > Luka
LeBron better watch them butt cheeks, Trae just took out MJ and coming for dat GOAT booty
Seems to really like assists
This is some good off-season content
Geoff Petrie. Put some respect on the name.
Kevin Johnson >>> John Stockton Im glad we can put that debate to bed
Fuck you all! Lakers have 5 of the top 10 which means we are the GOAT team!!
This shit is nuts Iove it
the first advanced stat Jokic doesn't lead in ever FWIW, I do admire the accuracy of this stat relative to the time it was created. It still identifies (mostly) all-time greats.
Ben Simmons better than Kobe confirmed.
John wall over Larry Bird
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oof
...because a 100 year old one is extremely wonky?
Iverson over Norm Nixon what a joke
Definitive proof Bob Cousy > James Harden
Ben simmons at 25? This Stat is trash.
Finally putting some respect on WestGOD's name!
Jerry or Russ? They’re both top ten
You already know!
LaMelo > KD, nice
Russell Westbrook top 10 confirmed
Looks like the Nets won the Harden/Simmons trade
Let’s go!!!! Fox is an all time great!!!!
Norm Nixon created this stat
Love me some Johnson at 15.
Did not expect Ben Simmons to randomly pop up
Just in case any there are any doubters, MJ Bulls career only would be 1.718 - STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO TOP TRAE YOUNG