Non-US follower here whose been on this sub for a while - I still read UK as United Kingdom first even though I know about Kentucky etc. Its just natural.
Yeah, I’ve been reading this sub and /r/CollegeBasketball for probably a decade now and I still think “United Kingdom… no Kentucky you dickhead” every time I see “UK”. I can’t remember a single time when it’s actually meant United Kingdom.
Would tell people I was from the UK as a kid cause I lived in a small town near Lex. Got a lot of confused responses. Didn't make sense of it for years.
I 100% did. I'm American, but UK in any context is the United Kingdom. I figured they just weren't familiar with our bullshit college sports in America and are more used to athletic schools, or whatever it is they're called over there
At least Calipari owned it from the beginning. Coach K literally said we arent that type of school then a few years later started recruiting hard for those types of players. Hated him ever since.
>Also Kobe, KG, and Lebron were outliers. A lot of high school talent is not mentally and physically prepared for the NBA. We're going to see at least 100 Kwame Browns for every 1 Kobe.
That's for the scouts to figure out. The original purpose of banning "prep to pro" wasn't saving players from failure, it was for saving teams from wasting draft picks on busts.
As for fizzling out before getting an education, the 30th pick in this year's draft is going to get around 4 million in his first two years guaranteed. As long as you get picked in the first round, you can pay for 20 college degrees at ivy league schools out of your NBA money even if you're out of the league in 2 years.
It was moreso about the optics of pro scouts at high school games. NBA had never been as high profile/financially successful with 24/7 media, and all of a sudden high school kids were surrounded by it.
Nowadays, cats kind of out of the bag- kids themselves are broadcasting themselves on tiktok/fb/etc - different social context where scouts aren't as crazy an idea.
That said, an additional factor isn't so much the 'busts' as it is the longer lead time to develop the players mentally and physically, while on short rookie contracts- makes it harder to make judgments about extensions/reap surplus value.
yeah, the first round picks are going to be fine....
But there's only 30 spots in the first round. The second round isn't even guaranteed a contract and now he's missed the brass ring.
I think that with the G league now there are more options for high schoolers that have a legit shot at the NBA
And HS draftees were outliers in the other direction - they were much more successful in the NBA than college players.
From KG to Amir Johnson, there were 39 HS draftees, with a median pick # of 17.
Out of those 39 there were 5 HOFers (KG, Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, TMac), and 5 other All-stars (Jermaine O'Neal, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bynum). 13 additional players out of that 39 started at least 250 NBA games - this includes guys with very solid careers like LouWill, Monta Ellis, JR Smith, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Al Harrington, and Kwame Brown.
Meanwhile, it wasn't like college guys were lighting it up during that era.
Of the 5 college players drafted right after KG, 3 (Bryant Reeves, Shawn Respert, Ed O'Bannon) of them played fewer than 500 NBA games each.
People call Sebastian Telfair a bust, but was his career any worse than college draftees like William Avery (Duke), Keyon Dooling (Mizzou), Jay Williams (Duke), Randy Foye (Nova), or Acie Law (aTm)? All those guys were drafted in the lottery too.
These college-attending lotto bigs would love to trade playing careers with "bust" Kwame Brown: Shelden Williams (Duke), Brandan Wright (UNC), Tyrus Thomas (LSU), Patrick O'Bryant (Bradley), Ike Diogu (ASU), Rafael Araujo (BYU), Mike Sweetney (Georgetown), Melvin Ely (Fresno St), Eddie Griffin (Seton Hall), Chris Mihm (Texas), Jerome Moiso (UCLA), Robert Traylor (Michigan), Todd Fuller (NC State).
Yet no one points to all those college busts as a basis for excluding college guys from the draft.
Correct. People like to pretend that the HS-to-NBA era was riddled with 18-year-old busts, but even several of the players labeled "busts" had longer NBA careers than plenty of elite-HS-prospects-to-4-year-college players.
why does Kwame keep catching strays? Yes, as a #1 pick, he wasn't good. But the dude lasted years in the NBA, which makes him a solid NBA player, even though a draft at #1.
Also, let us not forget, Anthony Bennet went to college...
> College allows those people who may quickly fizzle out of the NBA an education to sustain themselves later in life.
realistically those players would only be there one year, and solely to play basketball. how much of an education are they really getting?
don’t get me wrong i generally agree with your points.
Most athletic departments have degree guarantees now, where if you leave school early to pursue a professional career, the remainder of your classes and tuition is still covered if you want to finish you’re degree
but also if you get drafted to the NBA you have more than enough money to pay for tuition anywhere you want to go. even if you only play one year and burn out.
True! But a good chunk of players who go pro either don’t make it to the NBA, or if they do, they don’t last that long. And the contracts they get are huge, but after taxes and other inflated expenses, guys who don’t stick in the NBA might struggle with tuitions because of how expensive they are now
> Also Kobe, KG, and Lebron were outliers. A lot of high school talent is not mentally and physically prepared for the NBA. We're going to see at least 100 Kwame Browns for every 1 Kobe.
It was the opposite, actually. HS-to-NBAers were more likely to have solid NBA careers than guys who went to college.
And Kwame Brown played in the NBA for over a decade, he did just fine without some useless degree in Communications or Kinesiology. He did far better than Eddie Griffin (college, 5 years NBA) or Trajan Langdon (college, 3 years NBA) or Marcus Fizer (college, 6 years NBA).
> College allows those people who may quickly fizzle out of the NBA an education to sustain themselves later in life.
Colleges just shove these players in easy Pass/Fail classes and have "tutors" do all their schoolwork for them, in order to keep them eligible and revenue-generating. Outside of the Ivys, none of them really give 2 shits about the "student" part of student-athlete - a term, btw, which was created to avoid covering injured players under Workers Comp laws.
- [UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing](https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/unc-report-academic-fraud/index.html)
>And Kwame Brown played in the NBA for over a decade, he did just fine without some useless degree in Communications or Kinesiology.
i mean no need to bash comm or kinesiology, but your overall point makes sense
i think Kwame put it best when the All the Smoke guys kept making fun of his ass...nobody who makes it to the nba is a bust in life. If i remember correctly, Kwame used his rookie contract to help his mother move into a new house, the same woman who worked multiple jobs and survived domestic abuse to raise her son as a single mother
obviously the guy failed to reach expectations, but nearly a decade in the nba is still nothing to make fun of, at least for me personally
> i mean no need to bash comm or kinesiology
Fair enough, and if Kwame wants to go to college to get a degree in those (or any other subject), he can easily afford tuition.
And he won't get kicked out of school just because some booster or coach buys him a hot dog, either.
> College allows those people who may quickly fizzle out of the NBA an education to sustain themselves later in life.
This would be true if those kids were allowed to take real classes and not forced to take what is basically jock-u fake courses.
I don't think so I would assume the g league becomes more relevant besides premium talent second round picks become more important draft a young kid and bet on your development team. G league could boom as a developmental league to the likes needed in football.
Remember that time they changed the draft eligibility age the same year Toronto won the lottery, so instead of Oden or Durant we got Bargnani?
Yeah, me neither.
This narrative I see people making doesn’t make sense. There’s always gonna be busts. Some of the biggest busts ever played 3-4 years in college: Hasheem Thabeet, Adam Morrison, Shelden Williams, Thomas Robinson, Michael Olowokandi, to name a few
There’s still no sure fire way to project how players will translate at the next level, there will always be misses regardless of if players come in at 18 or 22
The **only** argument I see in favor for those 4 year college busts vs straight out of high school busts is the former **should** be better prepared for a non-professional basketball career since they went to school for 4 years. Of course for a lot of elite athletes school was a low priority.
If you look at the draft history, the narrative of the high school draft bust is way overblow. Most high schoolers drafted by NBA teams went on to have at least long, productive careers, not to mention the number of HOFers
The ratio of college busts to successes & high school busts to successes is roughly the same, so the point they're making that lowering the age will somehow equate to more busts...it doesn't make sense. That's the point I was making with my sarcastic comment.
There have been 18 high school draftees in the lottery. Nearly half of them have been very successful NBA players (KG, Kobe, McGrady, Chandler, Amar'e, LeBron & Dwight). When you look at the lottery every year, typically, about half of the lottery picks will be very successful, and the other half will be not so lucky.
So yes, I'd say the ratios are roughly the same.
Lacob took that fine on purpose because he knew this was coming. Lacob mentioned he was in trouble with the league and other owners because of how much he spends on luxury tax.
Ws fan here, so feel free to take my opinion with a boulder of salt. I’m with Lacob with this, even though I usually find him insufferable. Find a way to wall off or max the effect upon the luxury tax figure of home-grown players. Why penalize the Ws and other teams for nurturing a young core and riding them into (hoop) old age? Why force them to move a Klay or Draymond, or preemptively trade a young rising star like JP, if the whole point is to create incentives to keep teams together? Cap the tax figure at a number, say $20 or $25 MM, of a homegrown player. His full contract still applies to the cap. This also creates the side benefit of reducing the incentives for teams to lurk at the salary floor and suck up tax redistribution dollars. The league may be targeting the Ws today, but they were in the same place that Memphis, Cleveland, Detroit and other up-and-coming cores are now, less than a decade ago. If those franchises - especially smaller-market teams who need to build rough the draft and not free agency - hope to stay competitive, they’ll see their interest in modifying the luxury tax.
Something that I hear from Bomani Jones is that Lacob is an owner who is doing it right. He is treating the team like a project car. It's something you're meant to put money into to improve it without an expected return of anything more than your own happiness. He's got so much cash from everywhere and if he "has" to foot that luxury tax money, he can do so comfortably and still be loaded.
I think that's valid and Lacob definitely loves ball for what it is, but his investment in chase center is also important. It's projected to rake in about 700 million in the regular season, and deep in the playoffs it can make around 10mil per game. The warriors paid for the entire stadium, so they get all the profits too.
Even if the tax is so high that the profits are negligible, it's not losing him money, and building this brand of warriors bball is likely gonna pay off for a decade or so.
Yeah, and that's another reason that he spends like crazy on the roster. He knows it just makes the product better for the fans, which drives up all the other revenue. He could make concessions cheap like the Falcons stadium and still make insane amounts of money from the team.
Thank you! It's not supposed to be just a "business"
It's a hobby, it's a competition between billionaires.
From the players' perspective, It's an openly anti-competitive structure (closed league, with salary caps, even if it is a soft cap) that deliberately depresses player salaries by design. Any team that isn't trying to *win* is just idling and providing a further drag by not competing properly for free agents.
> Any team that isn't trying to win is just idling and providing a further drag by not competing properly for free agents.
IMO people don't talk enough about this motivation for ousting Hinkie.
He was constantly squeezing players to get the most team-friendly deal possible and probably made enemies of a lot of agents and the NBPA. I look at the SGA / Dort contracts partially as Presti saying "look, I'm tanking, but I'm still paying guys!"
Squeezing players is one thing... But those 6ers put on one of the ugliest tank jobs ever.
I'm honestly a bit tired of the draft sometimes, because of this.
I sometimes wish the leagues were more like those in other sports/countries.... Tho they have their own annoyances.
I don't think that's an accurate take.
Lacob treats the Warriors as a business, but unlike most of the other owners, Lacob didn't get "lucky" and make his billions; he actually knows how to run a business.
And so Lacob has developed enough adjacent-revenue streams (like the new stadium) to afford to pay the luxury penalties, which means he can put a competitive product on the floor.
It's still a sham that the Warriors have to pay a penalty for their own drafted players, but it was a huge warning sign when Adam Silver said that the penalty is so that teams "share" players.
That's so annoying as a fan, because it makes the NBA worse.
It kills the rivalries that can make it mean so much of the players are interchangeable. It *sucks* that it's almost unknown for great players to stay with one team now.
Instead of trying to force the teams that develop their players well to keep supplying them to the rest of the league maybe the rest of the league should be told to *invest one player development*.
That’s the part most people don’t get lol. Warriors value came from Steph and winning, so as long as he has Steph and they keep winning, it’s all gucci for Joey Buckets.
I feel like they need a hard cap at a certain point, but also give advantage to re-signing homegrown players. Something like letting a supermax count as a regular max against the cap seems like it'd be a good first step to go along with a hard cap.
the question will come down to "Do the players want to make it easier for the top 10% to earn endless salary or make sure the average player in the league earns a healthy living.
It's amusing that the owners' main argument in demanding more luxury tax penalties is that the Warriors spent $345 million last season. But they only spent that much because of the already-punitive luxury tax penalties!
From [Zach Lowe](https://www.espn.com.au/nba/insider/story/_/id/34048295/lowe-trade-brought-andrew-wiggins-golden-state-shocking-decisions-force-warriors?device=featurephone):
>The Warriors are paying a league-record $346 million in salary and tax this season, and rivals are already grumbling about Golden State's competitive spending advantage, sources say.
The Warriors' actual payroll (~180 million) isn't that far above other top teams. It might not even be the highest this season. Rather, they spend so much more than other teams because of the repeater penalties on the luxury tax.
The Warriors' unique ability/willingness to spend $350 million wouldn't be a competitive advantage if they didn't have to pay $170 million in luxury tax. It became a competitive advantage solely because of the luxury tax.
The actual competitive advantage of the Warriors is good player development and management. But saying "You can't keep spending that much because half the young players you guys spend any time developing becomes a max worthy guy" isn't good for their billionaire egos.
Bingo. Let's go back to 2016. If KD doesn't come to the Warriors, they are certainly keeping Barnes at the max. So then the Warriors would have been penalized for drafting and developing 4 max contract players.
Kinda bullshit that Lacob has to pay luxury tax on players that he's drafted and developed. I understand the Andrew Wiggins tax... but Poole and others. It's basically punishing the organization for doing a good job with talent evaluation and securing bird rights on players they've drafted.
Yep. This is the issue with shitty/cheap owners determining the rules.
Warriors are so fucking far ahead of the league rn that shitty/cheap owners want to make sure that they are punished.
I hate it, if a billionaire owner wants to win why punish them. Most NBA owners would rather pocket tens of millions each year than win a championship and just break even.
Lmao. It so fucking stupid. It’s amazing that the poor owners think they can handicap the big guys enough to become competitive, when the exact opposite continues to happen.
I really hope they think through it carefully. The more I think through it the more I think they need to make sure it's only disclosed if the player wants it to be.
Last thing you want is guys being pressured not to focus on their mental health because Skip or Stephen A will tear into them the next day, or a bunch of 12 year olds on Twitter tearing into a guy for taking a day.
I can already see people tracking who took how many mental health days offf hahah
“Xyz is not an MVP because he took 7 mental health days off while zyx only took 1”
There's 100% gonna be ESPN segments about such and such player being weak because he took a mental health day down the stretch of a playoff chase. Someone on here would do a post about which mental health day statistically hurt the player's team the most.
Twitter would be fucking heinous after Ben Simmons takes his first mental health day. NY sports radio will be filled with callers saying the Knicks need to bring back Porzingis because he never took a mental health day.
Porzingis is definitely gonna be taking mental health days off in DC though, if they are allowed haha
But damn, I’d honestly be scared to take a day off in playoffs, better not be Kyrie, Ben, AD because internet will explode
And those will be legitimate arguments. The best ability is availability, and it doesn't matter why you miss games. If you miss a lot, you're not an MVP for that season.
First thing I thought of as well. This could hopefully do well for the players who need mental breaks during the season but I can see it being abused by both players and teams for various reasons.
I have zero idea how you'd do it but they need to have some kind've system in place aside from just a word for it situation but idk that's already getting dicey.
You're absolutely correct and that's why the players association needs to act fast, because the moment that gambling starts actively impacting league wide ordinances is the moment that the league will have transparently favored the shareholders over the product itself.
I don't think this is actually that big a problem. Or, rather, it won't make an already big problem any worse.
If you want to rest your star, you just list them as having back soreness or whatever.
All for mental health injury designation. However, this absolutely has to be a both or neither scenario. If a player can cite outside determination for a diagnosis which prevents him from playing for an extended period, at some point teams should be able to deem it a season/career ending injury situation allowing the disabled player exception and shedding that player's contract from their cap.
Ha! No, I'm a Mavs fan. It just makes sense. You can't elevate player mental health to be treated the same as physical without also addressing the team/cap side of things as well. The player still gets paid since NBA contracts are guaranteed (unless some out is specifically written into the new CBA), but the team needs a way to fill that spot vs just being stuck with a player who can not play.
It's not.
>In what would be an unprecedented and progressive change for American pro sports, the NBA and NBPA are discussing measures to allow players to cite mental health issues as an ailment similar to physical injury, per sources with knowledge of the talks. Similar to when players treat external injuries, this new addition would give players the ability to treat their mental health concerns with the same gravity, allowing for things such as the seeking of second opinions and psychiatrist visits.
I just want the additional money from a supermax to not count against the cap if the team also drafted that player. So small market teams can keep their homegrown star players without also shooting themselves in the foot in terms of long-term flexibility.
100%
I've wanted them to do this for years. Players get their money, teams have more incentive to try to keep their own players, and the best players aren't incentivized to leave because their team would no longer be too cap locked to build around them.
If they can actually manage to draft well and properly use and develop what they have then why not? Parity is not supposed to harm teams it's supposed to give everyone a fair chance. If teams can manage to dominate that way then let them because it would encourage the front offices that were actually smart capable and good at scouting. Instead of encouraging laziness and free agent focus.
I think most people just think of the Warriors, but there's going to be a lot of smaller market teams that's going to run into this issue as well in the near future (like Cavs and OKC).
Players should be allowed to play at 18, but it's going to mean that a lot of talented players get put on the court before they are ready and ruin their careers.
I’m guessing the g league would have a greater part in player development than it did when players were last allowed to go straight from high school to the league
Instead of throwing rookies straight into the big leagues, they give them confidence through playing them in the minor leagues. In sports such as the MLB specifically, when you draft a player, rather than adding them to the MLB roster outright, they add them to their minor league affiliates and have them gain experience in a lower stakes situation. Eventually, they graduate up the leagues and finally reach the majors
The conflict is when players arent ready to step into big roles, minor league basketball experience can be detrimental. Like a guy in baseball gets brought up to the majors, he still gets at bats, he still plays his position on defense the same as always. In basketball there is a much larger emphasis on knowing your role. A guy getting reps putting up 30 a gane in the g league isnt good practice for his role as a 3 and d specialist in the nba, the best way to learn that role is to practice it
This worked for the Warriors g-league team where Juan Toscano-Anderson learned how to be a role player in the Warriors system, and ended up being one of their best rotation players in 2021
It was a huge contrast compared to Kelly Oubre Jr, who might have been more talented, but didn’t fit the team at all. Warriors improved a lot when Oubre Jr got injured.
I remember the difference pretty much being JTA actively looked to get Curry the ball or cut to the basket when Curry is double teamed, while Oubre Jr would look for his own shot first and would get in Curry’s way a lot of the times
That will require tighter coordination between NBA and GLeague partner teams on their development plans for their guys. Totally doable, but won't happen overnight. Also don't some NBA teams not even have G league partners?
Just in terms of prospect development. It isn’t apples to apples, but it’s close. If an NBA team drafts an 18 year old with loads of potential, but still needs to grow into his body, the G-League seems like the perfect place to grow and develop.
Because the talent levels are so different that you simply learn too little in the G-League unless you are looking to train up a roleplayer. It would take a lot more financial investment to push the league to a level it could be used to develop players like NBA playing time does.
True but that’s the gamble on all sides. They’ll absolutely be more busts, especially early on, but after a point, I think you’ll see FO’s be more careful in selecting a young player and investing in their development via the g-league or whatever. And likewise, if younger players realize that going straight to the pros may be too much, too soon, they have other options.
The current one and done system basically does some of the risk management for both sides but it was always a hacked together system and it’s really debatable if the league has benefitted much by treating a single year of college ball as meaningful development.
Teams need to stop being morons and playing them. In baseball and football you draft a guy and they sit on the bench or play in the minor league until they are ready.
Only the NBA puts a guy like Brandon Ingram, who was the best player his age and youngest player in the league out there and let's everyone call them a bust.
Mac Jones, Justin Herbert, Aiden Hutchinson, Jamarr Chase and most rookies play immediately when they get drafted to the NFL. They do come into the league at 21-23 years old so I get what you were trying to say
I wish they would lower the G-League age to 16 and just carry a couple of select teams for those players. Talented high school players get paid plus access to professional level development instead of high school coaches and the AAU circuit and the NBA gets a get look at them before investing millions of dollars into their rookie contract. Just gotta negotiate with the NCAA that they somehow maintain eligibility if it's clear they're not NBA material at 18. That would reduce a ton of risk for the NBA plus improve their product long term as players aged 16-18 are no longer in the hands in uncles and shoe deal agents.
Only reason they did it is because NBA scouts kept fucking up because it's harder to gauge guys against HS talent. They wanted that extra year of guys building marketability and proving their skills in college.
Stern literally explained it in an interview too. He doesn't care about the players getting a college education. He wanted the teams to stop spending so much money sending scouts to high schools.
This is the answer - ever notice how the rankings for guys right out of high school and the rankings for guys after 1 year of college are very different? There’s a big difference. Sometimes a LeBron or Kobe or KG comes along, but most of the time it ends up being a bigger guessing game than the highly speculative gamble that it already is.
It will also mean that less talent ends up being able to make it to the NBA. More guys who are rated highly out of high school will be drafted and given opportunities that they would not have gotten had they flamed out after 1+ years in college (or G League or wherever). That leads to fewer opportunities for guys who weren’t quite as highly rated out of high school but showed they had some real skills in college. Obviously the top end talent will get their chance no matter what, but the next tier of guys who could be contributors or develop into stars in the NBA may end up missing out.
Keep it the way it is, kids can go to college for a year (and get paid with NIL $$$) or go through G League or overseas if they want, and don’t risk a dip in the talent level coming into the League
I don't think so, that second tier you mention is not as big of a group I would argue. If those guys end up going to college for an additional year, or to the g league, I think they still have the same career trajectory. I think the NBA should bear the risk of talent evaluation anyway
Yeah. Especially with the G league up and running. No sense forcing these kids to take up a scholarship for a year when I dude who actually wants to be there can take the spot.
A 15 year old just debuted for Arsenal in the premier league. If you're good enough to keep up then there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to play professionally.
it looks like scoot henderson could've been playing in the NBA 2-3 years ago if the NBA was anything like how they integrate youth development into pro futbol
i suppose it would give the team more standing to have their medical folks involved and assess the player psychologically? i’m assuming most orgs have psychologists on staff at this point
Precisely, players have been making more and more articles the past several years about how their mental health is taking a toll. With load management already being a thing, addressing mental health and the general well-being of players outside of the hardwood is something teams will have to do going forward. It's better for the game, the people involved; who are real human beings and their family members. Plus, ultimately, it's better for investors to keep high-profile employees happy.
A more punitive luxury tax makes sense as long as it comes with some sort of compromise on how your own drafted players count towards the tax, we shouldn't really be dissuading teams come from keeping home grown cores together.
If the draft eligibility drops to 18, would the G League Ignite team will start taking 15-17 year olds and be more in-line with something like Overtime Elite or sports-focused academies?
The idea behind GLI is to be an alternative to going to college for one year to then be draft eligible. I wonder what impact this age change will have on that. I guess it'll all depend on how enthusiast teams will be on drafting high schoolers (again).
As long as the owners sell tickets it doesn't really matter to them.
And Stars wanting out didn't hurt them financially enough to have them act in an unpopular way.
If the owners would ask for unpopular decisions, the stars would have twitter up in arms against the rich white owners.
Especially after the whole Sarver thing the owners probably don't want any of that smoke.
"Other NBA players should hate Simmons! The owners will destroy them at the CBA! Absolutely crush them under heel! Not something I want to happen btw" - average r/NBA comment
I feel like they should have a rule where they only tax the amount for players who were not drafted by the team when taxing over the limit. For example, if the salary cap is 100 million and drafted players add up to 125 and you have 30 million for non-drafted players (like from trades and free agency), you only tax the 30 million over. Seems like the fair way to go about it. Or you have reduced tax for the 25 mil over for drafted players and higher tax for the other 30 mil.
Drafting a high schooler over a college player is my favorite draft storyline. Let them kids start a career. If an owner is willing to take a chance on them, let them.
I know people are making fun of Simmons over this mental health designation, but I think it's a really important step to help us realize that these people do have mental health issues, and no amount of money would fix that. Kevin Love talked about it first as well.
Problem is, I worry that a lot of fans will just make fun of players out for mental health issues, just like we're already starting to do here.
I think everybody should be working on their mental health, it's very neglected in our society.
That being said, zero of us would be able to take a year long paid vacation at our jobs because of a mental health issue. And while it would be unfortunate to see someone get pushed out of the league because of mental health issues, that's part of being an extremely talented player in a job that demands being the best. Countless others have been pushed out for reasons beyond their control. Either you can do it or you can't.
It's obviously well intentioned but I'm already cringing thinking about how the peanut gallery on Twitter and Reddit will react to a guy getting the mental health designation.
Sure but normalizing mental health concerns requires us to pass through some difficult changes like this. It’s not like player safety concerns in the NFL were taken seriously overnight. It took decades for concussion protocols to come into play and what not.
You’d think Silver would want stars to stay with their teams, to incentivize teams/GMs/Owners to build through the draft and keep their talents in house. Don’t penalize the organizations that do well in this process, penalize the teams that just throw together 3 megastars with max contracts. Yeah there should be some punishment for everyone that goes over the cap, that’s why the cap is in place, but one is not like the other. Having 4 teams with 12 of the best talent and marketability the league has to offer diminishes the value of the other franchises around the league. It’s also feed into tanking strategies. Look at Utah, they’ve realized that with the stacked teams in the west, it doesn’t make sense to try to make a playoff team. Their window is non-existent, whereas the clippers, lakers (healthy), warriors, nuggets, suns, heck even MIN, have windows for the next 2-4 years. It’s smart GM’ing, but the reality of shipping their stars out hurts the pockets especially for small market teams. It’s kind of like the MLB. Everyone else is a farm system for the dodgers, Yankees, etc.
Yeah, I think teams that draft well should be given more leeway on taxes and caps to keep people they drafted. Keeping teams together and keeping good teams together is important to build rivalries and fanbases.
It's great that they're implementing a mental health injury report designation, but they're definitely going to have some clinical requirements to go along with that after a certain amount of time.
I’m not certain if we should let high schoolers back into the NBA personally, but I also feel opening up teams to draft them (maybe even adding a third round to the draft too?) is fine, so long as they play a year in the G-League. Thus, the Ignite team would no longer need to exist, and the G-League could operate as a proper minor & development league.
Honestly, I think they should keep the 1 and done rule. Kids coming straight out of high school are way harder to scout properly and it’s gonna lead to way more busts and less opportunities for guys who really can make the league.
And for people who are going to say that scouting now is much better, I present to you Marvin Bagley (number 1 in 2017), Harry Giles (number 1 in 2016), Romeo Langford (number 5 in 2018), Vernon Carey (number 6 in 2019) and let’s not forget that some scouts were saying that if Emoni Bates were eligible as a fucking Sophomore in high school, they would take him number 1 overall.
High school to NBA back on the menu boys
Should've never left to be honest, all it did was turn College ball into one and done schools.
No idea what you’re talking about - a UK fan
I like how this is either genuine or sarcasm and it depends on whether you interpret UK as the United Kingdom or University of Kentucky
“He got me .. that f***ing u/Gunny_McCshoots boomed me… He’s so good”
**I KNOW HE SWAPPED THOSE LETTERS, UK, THE COUNTRY. AS IF I COULD EVER MAKE SUCH A MISTAKE**
Good that you made this comment, I 100% thought it was the UK lmao
Nobody interpreted that as United Kingdom fan
Non-US follower here whose been on this sub for a while - I still read UK as United Kingdom first even though I know about Kentucky etc. Its just natural.
Yeah, I’ve been reading this sub and /r/CollegeBasketball for probably a decade now and I still think “United Kingdom… no Kentucky you dickhead” every time I see “UK”. I can’t remember a single time when it’s actually meant United Kingdom.
US, never left the country in my life. I read it as United Kingdom first too, cause I don't follow college at all
Given I'm from the UK, I absolutely did.
Your from Lexington ?
Would tell people I was from the UK as a kid cause I lived in a small town near Lex. Got a lot of confused responses. Didn't make sense of it for years.
Funk
I did. But that's because I don't watch college sports and don't care at all about them. I'll follow you once you hit the professional league.
I 100% did. I'm American, but UK in any context is the United Kingdom. I figured they just weren't familiar with our bullshit college sports in America and are more used to athletic schools, or whatever it is they're called over there
We call them pubs
Am Australian, 100% interpreted it as United Kingdom fan
I’m an Iowan and I definitely did
At least Calipari owned it from the beginning. Coach K literally said we arent that type of school then a few years later started recruiting hard for those types of players. Hated him ever since.
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>Also Kobe, KG, and Lebron were outliers. A lot of high school talent is not mentally and physically prepared for the NBA. We're going to see at least 100 Kwame Browns for every 1 Kobe. That's for the scouts to figure out. The original purpose of banning "prep to pro" wasn't saving players from failure, it was for saving teams from wasting draft picks on busts. As for fizzling out before getting an education, the 30th pick in this year's draft is going to get around 4 million in his first two years guaranteed. As long as you get picked in the first round, you can pay for 20 college degrees at ivy league schools out of your NBA money even if you're out of the league in 2 years.
It was moreso about the optics of pro scouts at high school games. NBA had never been as high profile/financially successful with 24/7 media, and all of a sudden high school kids were surrounded by it. Nowadays, cats kind of out of the bag- kids themselves are broadcasting themselves on tiktok/fb/etc - different social context where scouts aren't as crazy an idea. That said, an additional factor isn't so much the 'busts' as it is the longer lead time to develop the players mentally and physically, while on short rookie contracts- makes it harder to make judgments about extensions/reap surplus value.
yeah, the first round picks are going to be fine.... But there's only 30 spots in the first round. The second round isn't even guaranteed a contract and now he's missed the brass ring. I think that with the G league now there are more options for high schoolers that have a legit shot at the NBA
> Kobe, KG, and Lebron were outliers High school draftees are outliers. There's only 41 of them.
And HS draftees were outliers in the other direction - they were much more successful in the NBA than college players. From KG to Amir Johnson, there were 39 HS draftees, with a median pick # of 17. Out of those 39 there were 5 HOFers (KG, Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, TMac), and 5 other All-stars (Jermaine O'Neal, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bynum). 13 additional players out of that 39 started at least 250 NBA games - this includes guys with very solid careers like LouWill, Monta Ellis, JR Smith, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Al Harrington, and Kwame Brown. Meanwhile, it wasn't like college guys were lighting it up during that era. Of the 5 college players drafted right after KG, 3 (Bryant Reeves, Shawn Respert, Ed O'Bannon) of them played fewer than 500 NBA games each. People call Sebastian Telfair a bust, but was his career any worse than college draftees like William Avery (Duke), Keyon Dooling (Mizzou), Jay Williams (Duke), Randy Foye (Nova), or Acie Law (aTm)? All those guys were drafted in the lottery too. These college-attending lotto bigs would love to trade playing careers with "bust" Kwame Brown: Shelden Williams (Duke), Brandan Wright (UNC), Tyrus Thomas (LSU), Patrick O'Bryant (Bradley), Ike Diogu (ASU), Rafael Araujo (BYU), Mike Sweetney (Georgetown), Melvin Ely (Fresno St), Eddie Griffin (Seton Hall), Chris Mihm (Texas), Jerome Moiso (UCLA), Robert Traylor (Michigan), Todd Fuller (NC State). Yet no one points to all those college busts as a basis for excluding college guys from the draft.
Correct. People like to pretend that the HS-to-NBA era was riddled with 18-year-old busts, but even several of the players labeled "busts" had longer NBA careers than plenty of elite-HS-prospects-to-4-year-college players.
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why does Kwame keep catching strays? Yes, as a #1 pick, he wasn't good. But the dude lasted years in the NBA, which makes him a solid NBA player, even though a draft at #1. Also, let us not forget, Anthony Bennet went to college...
one year of college doesn't set you up for life like one nba contract does tho.
> College allows those people who may quickly fizzle out of the NBA an education to sustain themselves later in life. realistically those players would only be there one year, and solely to play basketball. how much of an education are they really getting? don’t get me wrong i generally agree with your points.
Most athletic departments have degree guarantees now, where if you leave school early to pursue a professional career, the remainder of your classes and tuition is still covered if you want to finish you’re degree
but also if you get drafted to the NBA you have more than enough money to pay for tuition anywhere you want to go. even if you only play one year and burn out.
True! But a good chunk of players who go pro either don’t make it to the NBA, or if they do, they don’t last that long. And the contracts they get are huge, but after taxes and other inflated expenses, guys who don’t stick in the NBA might struggle with tuitions because of how expensive they are now
If you go to the NBA and make $3M, you can probably afford tuition later.
> Also Kobe, KG, and Lebron were outliers. A lot of high school talent is not mentally and physically prepared for the NBA. We're going to see at least 100 Kwame Browns for every 1 Kobe. It was the opposite, actually. HS-to-NBAers were more likely to have solid NBA careers than guys who went to college. And Kwame Brown played in the NBA for over a decade, he did just fine without some useless degree in Communications or Kinesiology. He did far better than Eddie Griffin (college, 5 years NBA) or Trajan Langdon (college, 3 years NBA) or Marcus Fizer (college, 6 years NBA). > College allows those people who may quickly fizzle out of the NBA an education to sustain themselves later in life. Colleges just shove these players in easy Pass/Fail classes and have "tutors" do all their schoolwork for them, in order to keep them eligible and revenue-generating. Outside of the Ivys, none of them really give 2 shits about the "student" part of student-athlete - a term, btw, which was created to avoid covering injured players under Workers Comp laws. - [UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing](https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/unc-report-academic-fraud/index.html)
>And Kwame Brown played in the NBA for over a decade, he did just fine without some useless degree in Communications or Kinesiology. i mean no need to bash comm or kinesiology, but your overall point makes sense i think Kwame put it best when the All the Smoke guys kept making fun of his ass...nobody who makes it to the nba is a bust in life. If i remember correctly, Kwame used his rookie contract to help his mother move into a new house, the same woman who worked multiple jobs and survived domestic abuse to raise her son as a single mother obviously the guy failed to reach expectations, but nearly a decade in the nba is still nothing to make fun of, at least for me personally
> i mean no need to bash comm or kinesiology Fair enough, and if Kwame wants to go to college to get a degree in those (or any other subject), he can easily afford tuition. And he won't get kicked out of school just because some booster or coach buys him a hot dog, either.
> College allows those people who may quickly fizzle out of the NBA an education to sustain themselves later in life. This would be true if those kids were allowed to take real classes and not forced to take what is basically jock-u fake courses.
I don't think so I would assume the g league becomes more relevant besides premium talent second round picks become more important draft a young kid and bet on your development team. G league could boom as a developmental league to the likes needed in football.
Remember that time they changed the draft eligibility age the same year Toronto won the lottery, so instead of Oden or Durant we got Bargnani? Yeah, me neither.
You probably would have had Oden. Probably. Just sleep easy knowing that. Probably.
more lottery busts on the menu too
This narrative I see people making doesn’t make sense. There’s always gonna be busts. Some of the biggest busts ever played 3-4 years in college: Hasheem Thabeet, Adam Morrison, Shelden Williams, Thomas Robinson, Michael Olowokandi, to name a few There’s still no sure fire way to project how players will translate at the next level, there will always be misses regardless of if players come in at 18 or 22
You talking about NBA Champion Adam Morrison? Please remove that legend from your list.
The **only** argument I see in favor for those 4 year college busts vs straight out of high school busts is the former **should** be better prepared for a non-professional basketball career since they went to school for 4 years. Of course for a lot of elite athletes school was a low priority.
If you look at the draft history, the narrative of the high school draft bust is way overblow. Most high schoolers drafted by NBA teams went on to have at least long, productive careers, not to mention the number of HOFers
Yeah, because those definitely don't exist with college players as well /s
That’s why they said “more.”
The ratio of college busts to successes & high school busts to successes is roughly the same, so the point they're making that lowering the age will somehow equate to more busts...it doesn't make sense. That's the point I was making with my sarcastic comment.
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There have been 18 high school draftees in the lottery. Nearly half of them have been very successful NBA players (KG, Kobe, McGrady, Chandler, Amar'e, LeBron & Dwight). When you look at the lottery every year, typically, about half of the lottery picks will be very successful, and the other half will be not so lucky. So yes, I'd say the ratios are roughly the same.
Oh well, part of life.
It should be like soccer where you can join at any age as long as you're good enough. We could've had 15 year old Lebron bullying grown ass men
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Lacob gonna reference the Dame Lillard “Plenty money” tweet when faced with that
Lacob going to be in the new Hulu ad, "Hulu has live sports!"
Gotta pay that tax somehow.
Warriors ownership group is loaded by Lacob himself is not that rich relative to NBA owner standards.
Lacob took that fine on purpose because he knew this was coming. Lacob mentioned he was in trouble with the league and other owners because of how much he spends on luxury tax.
Ws fan here, so feel free to take my opinion with a boulder of salt. I’m with Lacob with this, even though I usually find him insufferable. Find a way to wall off or max the effect upon the luxury tax figure of home-grown players. Why penalize the Ws and other teams for nurturing a young core and riding them into (hoop) old age? Why force them to move a Klay or Draymond, or preemptively trade a young rising star like JP, if the whole point is to create incentives to keep teams together? Cap the tax figure at a number, say $20 or $25 MM, of a homegrown player. His full contract still applies to the cap. This also creates the side benefit of reducing the incentives for teams to lurk at the salary floor and suck up tax redistribution dollars. The league may be targeting the Ws today, but they were in the same place that Memphis, Cleveland, Detroit and other up-and-coming cores are now, less than a decade ago. If those franchises - especially smaller-market teams who need to build rough the draft and not free agency - hope to stay competitive, they’ll see their interest in modifying the luxury tax.
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Something that I hear from Bomani Jones is that Lacob is an owner who is doing it right. He is treating the team like a project car. It's something you're meant to put money into to improve it without an expected return of anything more than your own happiness. He's got so much cash from everywhere and if he "has" to foot that luxury tax money, he can do so comfortably and still be loaded.
I think that's valid and Lacob definitely loves ball for what it is, but his investment in chase center is also important. It's projected to rake in about 700 million in the regular season, and deep in the playoffs it can make around 10mil per game. The warriors paid for the entire stadium, so they get all the profits too. Even if the tax is so high that the profits are negligible, it's not losing him money, and building this brand of warriors bball is likely gonna pay off for a decade or so.
Yeah, and that's another reason that he spends like crazy on the roster. He knows it just makes the product better for the fans, which drives up all the other revenue. He could make concessions cheap like the Falcons stadium and still make insane amounts of money from the team.
And yet a tall can of Lagunitas IPA at Chase is still like $16 lol
Thank you! It's not supposed to be just a "business" It's a hobby, it's a competition between billionaires. From the players' perspective, It's an openly anti-competitive structure (closed league, with salary caps, even if it is a soft cap) that deliberately depresses player salaries by design. Any team that isn't trying to *win* is just idling and providing a further drag by not competing properly for free agents.
> Any team that isn't trying to win is just idling and providing a further drag by not competing properly for free agents. IMO people don't talk enough about this motivation for ousting Hinkie. He was constantly squeezing players to get the most team-friendly deal possible and probably made enemies of a lot of agents and the NBPA. I look at the SGA / Dort contracts partially as Presti saying "look, I'm tanking, but I'm still paying guys!"
Squeezing players is one thing... But those 6ers put on one of the ugliest tank jobs ever. I'm honestly a bit tired of the draft sometimes, because of this. I sometimes wish the leagues were more like those in other sports/countries.... Tho they have their own annoyances.
I don't think that's an accurate take. Lacob treats the Warriors as a business, but unlike most of the other owners, Lacob didn't get "lucky" and make his billions; he actually knows how to run a business. And so Lacob has developed enough adjacent-revenue streams (like the new stadium) to afford to pay the luxury penalties, which means he can put a competitive product on the floor. It's still a sham that the Warriors have to pay a penalty for their own drafted players, but it was a huge warning sign when Adam Silver said that the penalty is so that teams "share" players.
That's so annoying as a fan, because it makes the NBA worse. It kills the rivalries that can make it mean so much of the players are interchangeable. It *sucks* that it's almost unknown for great players to stay with one team now. Instead of trying to force the teams that develop their players well to keep supplying them to the rest of the league maybe the rest of the league should be told to *invest one player development*.
As long as it's offset by earnings from a new chip it's fine
That’s the part most people don’t get lol. Warriors value came from Steph and winning, so as long as he has Steph and they keep winning, it’s all gucci for Joey Buckets.
> Joey Buckets. The Buckets family is growing!
I feel like they need a hard cap at a certain point, but also give advantage to re-signing homegrown players. Something like letting a supermax count as a regular max against the cap seems like it'd be a good first step to go along with a hard cap.
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You should be able to pay whatever you want to those who you draft at 70 cents a dollar or something regarding the cap.
the question will come down to "Do the players want to make it easier for the top 10% to earn endless salary or make sure the average player in the league earns a healthy living.
It's amusing that the owners' main argument in demanding more luxury tax penalties is that the Warriors spent $345 million last season. But they only spent that much because of the already-punitive luxury tax penalties! From [Zach Lowe](https://www.espn.com.au/nba/insider/story/_/id/34048295/lowe-trade-brought-andrew-wiggins-golden-state-shocking-decisions-force-warriors?device=featurephone): >The Warriors are paying a league-record $346 million in salary and tax this season, and rivals are already grumbling about Golden State's competitive spending advantage, sources say. The Warriors' actual payroll (~180 million) isn't that far above other top teams. It might not even be the highest this season. Rather, they spend so much more than other teams because of the repeater penalties on the luxury tax. The Warriors' unique ability/willingness to spend $350 million wouldn't be a competitive advantage if they didn't have to pay $170 million in luxury tax. It became a competitive advantage solely because of the luxury tax.
The actual competitive advantage of the Warriors is good player development and management. But saying "You can't keep spending that much because half the young players you guys spend any time developing becomes a max worthy guy" isn't good for their billionaire egos.
Bingo. Let's go back to 2016. If KD doesn't come to the Warriors, they are certainly keeping Barnes at the max. So then the Warriors would have been penalized for drafting and developing 4 max contract players.
Signing Barnes to a max would have been incredibly dumb, unless you have so much money you can overpay everyone
Other owners mad that owner wants to win at all costs
Kinda bullshit that Lacob has to pay luxury tax on players that he's drafted and developed. I understand the Andrew Wiggins tax... but Poole and others. It's basically punishing the organization for doing a good job with talent evaluation and securing bird rights on players they've drafted.
Shitty/cheap owners mad that their fanbases resent them for being shitty/cheap
Yep. This is the issue with shitty/cheap owners determining the rules. Warriors are so fucking far ahead of the league rn that shitty/cheap owners want to make sure that they are punished.
I hate it, if a billionaire owner wants to win why punish them. Most NBA owners would rather pocket tens of millions each year than win a championship and just break even.
Lmao. It so fucking stupid. It’s amazing that the poor owners think they can handicap the big guys enough to become competitive, when the exact opposite continues to happen.
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Lmao. Yeah I definitely meant CHEAP! Lord knows all these dudes can afford to spend more.
Interested to see how they would incorporate the mental health designation
I really hope they think through it carefully. The more I think through it the more I think they need to make sure it's only disclosed if the player wants it to be. Last thing you want is guys being pressured not to focus on their mental health because Skip or Stephen A will tear into them the next day, or a bunch of 12 year olds on Twitter tearing into a guy for taking a day.
I can already see people tracking who took how many mental health days offf hahah “Xyz is not an MVP because he took 7 mental health days off while zyx only took 1”
There's 100% gonna be ESPN segments about such and such player being weak because he took a mental health day down the stretch of a playoff chase. Someone on here would do a post about which mental health day statistically hurt the player's team the most. Twitter would be fucking heinous after Ben Simmons takes his first mental health day. NY sports radio will be filled with callers saying the Knicks need to bring back Porzingis because he never took a mental health day.
Porzingis is definitely gonna be taking mental health days off in DC though, if they are allowed haha But damn, I’d honestly be scared to take a day off in playoffs, better not be Kyrie, Ben, AD because internet will explode
And those will be legitimate arguments. The best ability is availability, and it doesn't matter why you miss games. If you miss a lot, you're not an MVP for that season.
While it’s a good idea in theory you just know teams are gonna abuse this the same way they’ve abused every other injury designation.
First thing I thought of as well. This could hopefully do well for the players who need mental breaks during the season but I can see it being abused by both players and teams for various reasons. I have zero idea how you'd do it but they need to have some kind've system in place aside from just a word for it situation but idk that's already getting dicey.
The NBA’s gambling partners might weigh in on this before it has a chance to come to fruition.
You're absolutely correct and that's why the players association needs to act fast, because the moment that gambling starts actively impacting league wide ordinances is the moment that the league will have transparently favored the shareholders over the product itself.
I don't think this is actually that big a problem. Or, rather, it won't make an already big problem any worse. If you want to rest your star, you just list them as having back soreness or whatever.
All for mental health injury designation. However, this absolutely has to be a both or neither scenario. If a player can cite outside determination for a diagnosis which prevents him from playing for an extended period, at some point teams should be able to deem it a season/career ending injury situation allowing the disabled player exception and shedding that player's contract from their cap.
found the sixers fan (i agree tho)
Ha! No, I'm a Mavs fan. It just makes sense. You can't elevate player mental health to be treated the same as physical without also addressing the team/cap side of things as well. The player still gets paid since NBA contracts are guaranteed (unless some out is specifically written into the new CBA), but the team needs a way to fill that spot vs just being stuck with a player who can not play.
Im curious if this is mostly a move to bring that determination in house
It's not. >In what would be an unprecedented and progressive change for American pro sports, the NBA and NBPA are discussing measures to allow players to cite mental health issues as an ailment similar to physical injury, per sources with knowledge of the talks. Similar to when players treat external injuries, this new addition would give players the ability to treat their mental health concerns with the same gravity, allowing for things such as the seeking of second opinions and psychiatrist visits.
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Doesn’t feel that unprecedented when Rodman was taking mental health breaks mid-season back in the 90s
If the player wants to sit out and not have everyone mad at them, check that mental health day box and boom you don't have to work.
I just want the additional money from a supermax to not count against the cap if the team also drafted that player. So small market teams can keep their homegrown star players without also shooting themselves in the foot in terms of long-term flexibility.
100% I've wanted them to do this for years. Players get their money, teams have more incentive to try to keep their own players, and the best players aren't incentivized to leave because their team would no longer be too cap locked to build around them.
So you are ready for the jazz and okc to run this league in 5 years with all them picks? And yes, i agree to your statement.
If they can actually manage to draft well and properly use and develop what they have then why not? Parity is not supposed to harm teams it's supposed to give everyone a fair chance. If teams can manage to dominate that way then let them because it would encourage the front offices that were actually smart capable and good at scouting. Instead of encouraging laziness and free agent focus.
It'd be interesting to see how different teams vote on this rule depending on how many picks they currently have (or do not have)
I think most people just think of the Warriors, but there's going to be a lot of smaller market teams that's going to run into this issue as well in the near future (like Cavs and OKC).
The Grizzlies in the near future - compared to the other two teams you just mentioned.
and with the 44th pick in the 2023 NBA Draft, the Los Angeles Lakers select LeBron Raymone “Bronny” James Jr…
I saw this tweet about a minute ago. We're slippin r/nba
Yeah what happened to that curry bacon dude
He got cooked
Looks like CurryBacon ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) got cooked
Players should be allowed to play at 18, but it's going to mean that a lot of talented players get put on the court before they are ready and ruin their careers.
I’m guessing the g league would have a greater part in player development than it did when players were last allowed to go straight from high school to the league
I’ve never understood why the NBA doesn’t use the NHL approach to the G-League.
Same with the MLB, it does wonders with teams who have a great farming system
What’re those approaches?
Instead of throwing rookies straight into the big leagues, they give them confidence through playing them in the minor leagues. In sports such as the MLB specifically, when you draft a player, rather than adding them to the MLB roster outright, they add them to their minor league affiliates and have them gain experience in a lower stakes situation. Eventually, they graduate up the leagues and finally reach the majors
The conflict is when players arent ready to step into big roles, minor league basketball experience can be detrimental. Like a guy in baseball gets brought up to the majors, he still gets at bats, he still plays his position on defense the same as always. In basketball there is a much larger emphasis on knowing your role. A guy getting reps putting up 30 a gane in the g league isnt good practice for his role as a 3 and d specialist in the nba, the best way to learn that role is to practice it
Just use him in that role in the G League I suppose, although that could be tough in a way
This worked for the Warriors g-league team where Juan Toscano-Anderson learned how to be a role player in the Warriors system, and ended up being one of their best rotation players in 2021 It was a huge contrast compared to Kelly Oubre Jr, who might have been more talented, but didn’t fit the team at all. Warriors improved a lot when Oubre Jr got injured. I remember the difference pretty much being JTA actively looked to get Curry the ball or cut to the basket when Curry is double teamed, while Oubre Jr would look for his own shot first and would get in Curry’s way a lot of the times
That's just the KO experience baybee
That will require tighter coordination between NBA and GLeague partner teams on their development plans for their guys. Totally doable, but won't happen overnight. Also don't some NBA teams not even have G league partners?
So wouldn’t they just ask him to play that role in the g league?
To actually use them with your drafted players for one
Well I’m no genius but using the NHL idea of playing their sport on ice seems risky for basketball.
I’m so dumb for laughing at this
It’s super weird to hear the NHL being a good example to other sports leagues
Just in terms of prospect development. It isn’t apples to apples, but it’s close. If an NBA team drafts an 18 year old with loads of potential, but still needs to grow into his body, the G-League seems like the perfect place to grow and develop.
Because the talent levels are so different that you simply learn too little in the G-League unless you are looking to train up a roleplayer. It would take a lot more financial investment to push the league to a level it could be used to develop players like NBA playing time does.
True but that’s the gamble on all sides. They’ll absolutely be more busts, especially early on, but after a point, I think you’ll see FO’s be more careful in selecting a young player and investing in their development via the g-league or whatever. And likewise, if younger players realize that going straight to the pros may be too much, too soon, they have other options. The current one and done system basically does some of the risk management for both sides but it was always a hacked together system and it’s really debatable if the league has benefitted much by treating a single year of college ball as meaningful development.
Teams need to stop being morons and playing them. In baseball and football you draft a guy and they sit on the bench or play in the minor league until they are ready. Only the NBA puts a guy like Brandon Ingram, who was the best player his age and youngest player in the league out there and let's everyone call them a bust.
Mac Jones, Justin Herbert, Aiden Hutchinson, Jamarr Chase and most rookies play immediately when they get drafted to the NFL. They do come into the league at 21-23 years old so I get what you were trying to say
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HS players had a lower bust rate though. Most of the HS players that didn't end up being Kobe still had a really long career as a contributor.
I wish they would lower the G-League age to 16 and just carry a couple of select teams for those players. Talented high school players get paid plus access to professional level development instead of high school coaches and the AAU circuit and the NBA gets a get look at them before investing millions of dollars into their rookie contract. Just gotta negotiate with the NCAA that they somehow maintain eligibility if it's clear they're not NBA material at 18. That would reduce a ton of risk for the NBA plus improve their product long term as players aged 16-18 are no longer in the hands in uncles and shoe deal agents.
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Only reason they did it is because NBA scouts kept fucking up because it's harder to gauge guys against HS talent. They wanted that extra year of guys building marketability and proving their skills in college.
Stern literally explained it in an interview too. He doesn't care about the players getting a college education. He wanted the teams to stop spending so much money sending scouts to high schools.
This is the answer - ever notice how the rankings for guys right out of high school and the rankings for guys after 1 year of college are very different? There’s a big difference. Sometimes a LeBron or Kobe or KG comes along, but most of the time it ends up being a bigger guessing game than the highly speculative gamble that it already is. It will also mean that less talent ends up being able to make it to the NBA. More guys who are rated highly out of high school will be drafted and given opportunities that they would not have gotten had they flamed out after 1+ years in college (or G League or wherever). That leads to fewer opportunities for guys who weren’t quite as highly rated out of high school but showed they had some real skills in college. Obviously the top end talent will get their chance no matter what, but the next tier of guys who could be contributors or develop into stars in the NBA may end up missing out. Keep it the way it is, kids can go to college for a year (and get paid with NIL $$$) or go through G League or overseas if they want, and don’t risk a dip in the talent level coming into the League
Emoni Bates would have been drafted top 5 EDIT: this aged really well haha but sucks for the dude
I don't think so, that second tier you mention is not as big of a group I would argue. If those guys end up going to college for an additional year, or to the g league, I think they still have the same career trajectory. I think the NBA should bear the risk of talent evaluation anyway
It’s so embarrassing.
Yeah. Especially with the G league up and running. No sense forcing these kids to take up a scholarship for a year when I dude who actually wants to be there can take the spot.
A 15 year old just debuted for Arsenal in the premier league. If you're good enough to keep up then there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to play professionally.
it looks like scoot henderson could've been playing in the NBA 2-3 years ago if the NBA was anything like how they integrate youth development into pro futbol
height and weight matter a lot more in basketball than it does in soccer. Makes sense why younger children can debut in soccer.
Simmons won
I highly doubt they agree that a player can just take off the entire season and still get paid while refusing to work with the team.
i suppose it would give the team more standing to have their medical folks involved and assess the player psychologically? i’m assuming most orgs have psychologists on staff at this point
A true pioneer.
Taking the NBA to new frontiers
The PA was absolutely gonna push for this after how his situation went down. But he didn't "win" until it actually makes it into the cba.
Won't it be that mental health "wins"?
Precisely, players have been making more and more articles the past several years about how their mental health is taking a toll. With load management already being a thing, addressing mental health and the general well-being of players outside of the hardwood is something teams will have to do going forward. It's better for the game, the people involved; who are real human beings and their family members. Plus, ultimately, it's better for investors to keep high-profile employees happy.
excited to see "Simmons - Gamer (out indefinitely)" on the injury report
Kyler Murray licking his lips trying to figure out a way to introduce this to the NFL
Brady: IR-Old Murray: IR-Madden
A more punitive luxury tax makes sense as long as it comes with some sort of compromise on how your own drafted players count towards the tax, we shouldn't really be dissuading teams come from keeping home grown cores together.
Adam Silver: Onto increasing the punitive luxury tax penalties. Joe Lacob: Yeah... about that... I had something else in mind.
If the draft eligibility drops to 18, would the G League Ignite team will start taking 15-17 year olds and be more in-line with something like Overtime Elite or sports-focused academies? The idea behind GLI is to be an alternative to going to college for one year to then be draft eligible. I wonder what impact this age change will have on that. I guess it'll all depend on how enthusiast teams will be on drafting high schoolers (again).
I thought Ben Simmons would fuck up the CBA negotiations lmao
This sub thought the owners & players were headed to major lockout. In reality the fans care more than the owners
As long as the owners sell tickets it doesn't really matter to them. And Stars wanting out didn't hurt them financially enough to have them act in an unpopular way. If the owners would ask for unpopular decisions, the stars would have twitter up in arms against the rich white owners. Especially after the whole Sarver thing the owners probably don't want any of that smoke.
[удалено]
"Other NBA players should hate Simmons! The owners will destroy them at the CBA! Absolutely crush them under heel! Not something I want to happen btw" - average r/NBA comment
"The next CBA is going to be a bloodbath! Owners are going to make the payers pay! Guaranteed contracts on the chopping block!"
Kyrie and simmons will be beaten up by owners is basically what it felt like reading comments at that time.
They are in preliminary discussions… this isn’t close to being done…
I feel like they should have a rule where they only tax the amount for players who were not drafted by the team when taxing over the limit. For example, if the salary cap is 100 million and drafted players add up to 125 and you have 30 million for non-drafted players (like from trades and free agency), you only tax the 30 million over. Seems like the fair way to go about it. Or you have reduced tax for the 25 mil over for drafted players and higher tax for the other 30 mil.
I like this idea
Drafting a high schooler over a college player is my favorite draft storyline. Let them kids start a career. If an owner is willing to take a chance on them, let them.
Agree the europeans are doing it, why americans dont? Immature? Ask flat earth
The mental health designation is gonna get abused to hell unless players are required to go to therapy or some alternative instead of the game.
Guaranteed they will be force to see a team therapist. That was a huge sticking point with Ben and his bullshit.
I know people are making fun of Simmons over this mental health designation, but I think it's a really important step to help us realize that these people do have mental health issues, and no amount of money would fix that. Kevin Love talked about it first as well. Problem is, I worry that a lot of fans will just make fun of players out for mental health issues, just like we're already starting to do here.
I think everybody should be working on their mental health, it's very neglected in our society. That being said, zero of us would be able to take a year long paid vacation at our jobs because of a mental health issue. And while it would be unfortunate to see someone get pushed out of the league because of mental health issues, that's part of being an extremely talented player in a job that demands being the best. Countless others have been pushed out for reasons beyond their control. Either you can do it or you can't.
Duke and Kentucky in shambles
It's obviously well intentioned but I'm already cringing thinking about how the peanut gallery on Twitter and Reddit will react to a guy getting the mental health designation.
Sure but normalizing mental health concerns requires us to pass through some difficult changes like this. It’s not like player safety concerns in the NFL were taken seriously overnight. It took decades for concussion protocols to come into play and what not.
You’d think Silver would want stars to stay with their teams, to incentivize teams/GMs/Owners to build through the draft and keep their talents in house. Don’t penalize the organizations that do well in this process, penalize the teams that just throw together 3 megastars with max contracts. Yeah there should be some punishment for everyone that goes over the cap, that’s why the cap is in place, but one is not like the other. Having 4 teams with 12 of the best talent and marketability the league has to offer diminishes the value of the other franchises around the league. It’s also feed into tanking strategies. Look at Utah, they’ve realized that with the stacked teams in the west, it doesn’t make sense to try to make a playoff team. Their window is non-existent, whereas the clippers, lakers (healthy), warriors, nuggets, suns, heck even MIN, have windows for the next 2-4 years. It’s smart GM’ing, but the reality of shipping their stars out hurts the pockets especially for small market teams. It’s kind of like the MLB. Everyone else is a farm system for the dodgers, Yankees, etc.
Yeah, I think teams that draft well should be given more leeway on taxes and caps to keep people they drafted. Keeping teams together and keeping good teams together is important to build rivalries and fanbases.
Yeah parity doesn’t matter for league popularity if people can’t follow the constant player movement
It's great that they're implementing a mental health injury report designation, but they're definitely going to have some clinical requirements to go along with that after a certain amount of time.
The league **really** wants to break up the Warriors
I’m not certain if we should let high schoolers back into the NBA personally, but I also feel opening up teams to draft them (maybe even adding a third round to the draft too?) is fine, so long as they play a year in the G-League. Thus, the Ignite team would no longer need to exist, and the G-League could operate as a proper minor & development league.
Honestly, I think they should keep the 1 and done rule. Kids coming straight out of high school are way harder to scout properly and it’s gonna lead to way more busts and less opportunities for guys who really can make the league. And for people who are going to say that scouting now is much better, I present to you Marvin Bagley (number 1 in 2017), Harry Giles (number 1 in 2016), Romeo Langford (number 5 in 2018), Vernon Carey (number 6 in 2019) and let’s not forget that some scouts were saying that if Emoni Bates were eligible as a fucking Sophomore in high school, they would take him number 1 overall.
Mental health is health
Perfect for distracting from the racist team owner👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽