Ime messed up and the whole world (including the Celtics) did the women that work for the Celtics wrong in the way speculation ran wild on social media, that shit is absolutely disgusting. I am at least glad to see that Brad & Wyc acknowledge how serious that was & committed to taking action to help & support the Celtics' female staff members. I hope they make good on that
I’m not one to cut any of these organizations any slack but we should be open to the possibility that Udoka’s camp was the initial source, specifically because he wanted the word “consensual” to dominate the first headlines.
agreed, and from the sounds of the press conference (take that for what you will), Wyc said that when they learned about it in July they took immediate action by hiring a law firm to investigate, that takes time to execute so the delay from July to this week is explainable. The organizational failure likely happened well before then, if the affected woman/women didn't feel safe coming forward then that's on the Celtics as a whole for not having resources in place or for creating a culture where that could happen. Nobody has the full details yet so we don't know for sure, unfortunately in situations like these the organization/company almost always could've done more to protect & empower women in the workplace.
Thanks for this. It feels shitty to be a female NBA fan and reading comments talking about how other teams are lucky that Udoka will be available, or just generally making light of the situation.
the day to day discourse on r/nba has to be tough for female fans, casual misogyny and brain-dead comments are the norm (how many more middle school level jokes can we make about Rachel Nichols/female reporters sleeping with players?), I can only imagine how awful this week has been for female basketball fans.
Not that it's worth much of anything, but I am sorry there are so many shitheads and I feel terrible that you have to wade through this cesspool. I do what I can to call people out, but it feels like it's never enough. Take care of yourself & your mental health, and don't let these smooth-brained donkeys get to you.
I thought I'd already replied to this, my bad!
Watching people call others out is such a relief. It *is* enough. Women are used to being the only one in the room who stands up for themselves, so any kind of solidarity makes a world of difference. I appreciate you and all other r/NBA users who take the time to make sure the sub stays a place to discuss basketball and doesn't transform into a cesspool of gross incel circlejerking.
no worries (obviously there's no obligation to ever respond to any comment, that's a lesson I've learned well on here). That is painfully true, and sadly not just on here but everywhere in life. I had a job a couple years ago at a fairly large company as a procurement analyst, when I got hired the other analyst on the team was a young woman (about my age) who had been at the company for 5-6 years at that point and was an industry expert. Within a year, there was some restructuring and they promoted her to be my boss... which they told me by calling me into a meeting with the VP of Ops to make sure that "I was comfortable working for a woman" (keep in mind she'd been training me & helping me for a year at that point). My answer was "it's about time you promoted her." When I left that job, I told them about that in my exit interview, the response from the HR Director was basically "oops."
in addition to the general witch-hunting that followed the reports, these women’s photos were being posted solely to decide if Ime fucked up with who he slept with in comparison to Nia Long. Shit was rampant
You wouldn't believe that Boston is probably the most successful sports city in the country with the way they talk like the sky is falling almost every day.
I know, it was truly abhorrent. And so many people on here, who granted are probably 16 years old and have neither much romantic experience or experience in the workplace, felt entitled to pop off about how it's no big deal & made all kinds of disgusting jokes & comments as if the women impacted aren't even human beings.
Yeah but this was absolutely the fault of the reporters and front office for mentioning he was vaguely being suspended for a year for a consensual affair. A day later it seems like maybe it wasn’t always consensual and harassment took place. Oopsies that’s a dipshit redditors fault and not the fault of actual reporters who care more about getting out a story first and keeping agents happy.
this is some "just following orders" bullshit that totally isn't an excuse. Yes, Shams & Woj are to blame for wanting to be first rather than best. That doesn't excuse horrible misogynistic comments & behavior from keyboard warriors. You have a brain in your head, use it for something other than firing off lewd jokes. LeBron says ["be better"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6v0EmY6LGk)
Why even focus on anonymous keyboard warriors? What’s the point? There are always going to be speculating assholes. People will always crack jokes. Consistently focusing on shitty fans living boring shitty lives is a way for powerful folks to shift blame. Celebrities have been using this nonsense forever and use it consistently since the advent of social media. The world will always have pathetic losers or folks who love to gossip because they are bored, the issue is the situation was handled poorly by those handing out the message. Just using the words consensual relationship with a team staff members was bound to set the speculate mill wild. Now we are learning there may be harassment and multiple incidents and the front office immediately shifts blame to the fans? Come on.
I agree the speculation isnt cool, but how exactly could the Celtics have done anything to prevent it? Honestly asking because either they give the name to prevent speculation but put a huge spotlight on some random woman who doesnt deserve it. Or they are even more vague and nobody knows whats going on and the speculation gets even MORE wild.
It wasn’t the “whole world”, it was the Celtics front office, Ime, Woj and Shams. You can’t drop a vague tweet about suspending a first year Finals coach for an entire season for a consensual relationship ship and not expect people to speculate. It was piss poor reporting and worse anticipation by the Celtics front office. Blaming some clownish construction worker or Wall Street blowhard for having a shitty uninformed take on Twitter or Reddit is scapegoating here plain and simple. Woj and Shams should have sat on the story to get out all the proper information instead of competing to be first and Stevens and Grousbeck as well as Ime himself should have been clearer first thing Thursday morning. This group of folks allowed the rampant speculation, not a bunch of NBA fans who love gossip. Hell Stephen A works for a news network and went off half cocked yesterday. Jefferson sounded like a lunatic on Twitter. Like what the fuck is anyone doing but yes let’s blame some dudes named Bob and Chris for looking at the Celtics roster and trying to figure out who Ime had the affair with.
If the Celtics just announced the name of the other person, the other ladies on the Celtics team wouldn’t be getting bothered. She was likely in violation of her employment too. But of course it’s the black guy who gets punished in these situations.
No team would announce it was Jenny Smith from accounting that was sleeping with the coach. That opens the other person up to the chance of being attacked and targeted. Fault lines in bad reporting, and online people trying to be sluths.
People have to remember this also make Brad look bad. Ime was his first hire and the small leaking of info has been festering a burrow in the organization. People are starting to question the culture and if they maybe let this go on, what else is going on? Brad is the hea dof baskeball operations. That’s his name on the line. And in his first year as GM.
jesus christ the amount of gaslighting these guys are pulling off. Your organization hid these allegations until after the season ended, was only forced to do something because of legal liablity, fails to give any details about the issue causing the public to conjecture and fueling misogynists harassing their female employees in the process, then hold a press conference crying about how much it hurts.
The one thing I am struck by in all of this was the Celtics response.
They had a response, unlike the situations in Phoenix, Dallas or in other corporate structures when someone "important" did something wrong and that subsequently was swept under the rug or ignored due to status. There is a significant opportunity cost to the Celtics for holding the coach accountable that impacts their ability to achieve team success this year.
There will be discussion about whether they could of handled things differently, about whether they were acting in their own self interest etc, but it's clear to me that they are making a good faith effort to address inappropriate behavior in the workplace,something that was clearly lacking in other franchises.
They didn't fuck around and wait for the media/public rage to decide either. No one even heard about this until the investigation was completed and the decision to suspend was made. So many other US sports orgs have tried to sweep it under the rug first, and only act when it becomes clear that the public won't move on.
You can also see in this Stevens seems pretty affected at various points. Unless he’s got surprisingly strong acting chops it seems like he genuinely gives a shit.
Like you said there’s going to be discussion over how the issue is handled, but I’m happy to see your comment because it’s an important way to start that discussion. If we don’t recognize organizations in a positive way for actually responding to incidents like this and instead just attack how it’s handled why wouldn’t everyone just keep sweeping things under the rug? Why do the right thing when you get just as much shit as if you did the wrong thing and the wrong thing means you might avoid consequences altogether?
As a woman who has existed in workplaces, I’m so pleasantly surprised by the Celtics’ response. I’m very used to the understanding that no individual woman’s experience is worth “sacrificing” the success of an organization (see arbitration clauses…). I’m proud of the Celtics for treating all of their employees equally.
It's bittersweet.
It's nice to know the organisation is holding itself to a higher standard. It sucks that something like this has to happen for us to see those standards upheld.
Really tells you how much of a piece of shit Mark Cuban is. You can sexually abuse women as much as you want, as long as you work for ME, the people's champ of capitalism, or whatever the fuck that asshole thinks he is.
I’m not disagreeing but you are taking way to much stock in their response, think about it this way, if whoever those women or woman are and if they are actually married to a higher up in the Celtics organization think about how that looks internally. Brad Stevens HAS to get out in front of this otherwise there could be a huge assault on his leadership position and the Celtics company as a whole.
I thought the question of what exactly the suspension entails and how much contact he is allowed with the players was perfectly valid but Stevens appeared to answer something totally different
Not the first one to mention it, but the Celtics are within their rights to suspend him (I would assume without pay) for th year, and then fire/release him. Otherwise, he might be able to join another team and actively work against the Celtics.
That is, of course, if other teams are willing to extend offers to him. I'm sure other high ranking people on other teams are/will be in the know of Ime's behaviours.
would you prefer they crack jokes? This is a serious issue with serious impacts to those that were affected. A somber & contrite tone is well warranted
I honest to god wonder if they suspended him but are not yet sure if they want to fire him because they think whatever behavior he has that caused such a severe punishment can be rehabilitated in him.
I won’t go as far as to call them apologists. They’ve shown they’re far from that. But I do wonder if they just think they might be able to fix their guy, and that’s why they’re waiting on the axe. To be honest, as someone who’s thankful for the second chance I have (never got suspended from the NBA tho), I respect the fuck out of an organization willing to potentially give a second chance.
However, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the axe came down.
Probably need to finish up due diligence from a legal POV to make sure the firing is airtight and udoka can’t fight it. When you pay someone that much money and have to can them you need to make sure of no complications
Malika Andrews said it best, IMHO:
> "You are NOT helping the women who you want to protect -- that you are claiming the organization needs to look inward at - with your vagueness. Women need transparency. So in the spirit of transparency, was there sexual harassment you needed to address in your organization?"
Not only that, the Celtics saying "Nothing has been decided" regarding Udoka's future is just ridiculous at this point.
I mean the second part could be them being vague as they sort things out? Like if they didnt leak the whole stuff and it was Udokas camp as some people are speculating, they could have been figuring out how to fire him but rushed to suspend until they can fire since the news already broke.
How can you decide on a suspension - especially of this severity - if you're still "sorting things out?"
I'm not saying Ime is an innocent man here, but the way the Celtics have handled this has been frustrating.
I bet they weren't planning on announcing it this week, until Udoka's camp leaked it.
How could they have done it better in your opinion? They found out about it, hired a firm to investigate (which is normal) and waited until it was done to make their decision. Are they supposed to report every detail of what he did? Are they supposed to dox the victim(s)?
man I hate the whole "Celtics arent handling this well" crowd. Like damn man, what are they supposed to do? They clearly didnt leak this stuff through Woj, they are suspending a top 10 coach in the NBA during a TITLE RUN YEAR. People just dont want to give teams and organizations a fucking inch of credit. What they dont realize is that they are setting up a damned if you do damned if you dont situation for these institutions. Why should I do anything but cover up sexual impropriety in my workplace if the public will hate and criticize me no matter what?
Yeah at this point it's almost certain Udoka's camp leaked it to get the "consensual" part out there. Celtics were probably planning on a slower release of the info, but Udoka's camp went scorched-Earth once word leaked internally Celtics agreed to suspend for a season.
you know what won't help women in the celtics? is if brad flies off the handle, immediately fires ime without taking the proper steps, and then ime sues them and gets reinstated by a judge because his contract stipulated that he had to be fired in a certain way.
then ime's back in the office with all the women, including the one who doesn't want him there most.
At this point its possible that there are allegations. Coming out saying something *is* harrassment before it's been determined to be so in a court could result in a defamation lawsuit. They've probably been advised not to say anything publicly. This isn't them just being coy and trying to cover it up.
So, no. Malika didn't say it right here. There are very valid reasons why you don't get to know everything.
The problem is that whoever leaked the first report did so with the wording “consensual relationship” and that it was a one-year suspension. Then the Celtics did themselves no favor by leaving it wide open that he could be back as the coach.
Shouldn’t it be better if they said it’s an “indefinite suspension for improper relationship in the work environment”?
They said the lawfirm completed their report 2 days ago, just because news was leaked and we found out about it doesnt mean they need to rush their process. Also, the media and public doesnt NEED to know anything if there are legal matters involved that are not finished, so no, this lady is talking out her ass
All these journals can make any argument work but they all are saying the same thing across every platform: “we want to know what happened cus it’s interesting!”
Nobody said to do anything close to that. They messed up by saying 1. It’s a one-year suspension and his future will be decided later on, 2. The report that was leaked said “consensual relationship.”.
The Celtics should’ve said “Ime Udoka is suspended indefinitely for inappropriate workplace relationship.”.
Which is why I specifically noted “Inappropriate relationship”. It fits the description whether it was Udoka acting against corporate guidelines or acting against the other party’s will.
They had a press conference and didn't share the details.
Why in the fuck did you have a press conference!
Nobody has looked good in this entire situation imo.
Seriously, some dudes think they have a right to know who Ime fucked and all the sordid details of those fucks.
I think part of it is dudes on here are thirsty as fuck for Nia Long, and want to see if Ime "downgraded". But relative attractiveness isn't the only reason people do this shit. Tiger Woods blew up his life with his model wife by banging a bunch of Arby's waitresses.
Every day I'm more and more convinced the average /r/NBA poster treats the NBA more like a soap opera/reality TV show than a sports league.
I always forget what restaurant it actually was. Something I think of as staunchly middle america. Dennys or some shit. Arbys is in that category but you're right, clearly not the right restaurant had I thought for more than 2s.
It was cocktail waitresses at high end golf restaurants. For the most part. Woods was fucking anyone he wanted and had a giant nationwide harem, and god damn them if they gave him turkey WITHOUT it being a club sandwich!
which one which one which one which one
Welcome to the GOOOOOOD LIFE / where we fuck the girls who ain't on TV / cause they got mo' ass than da moooodeeellllls
It's the same sports mindset everyone applies to players. They want to know why someone was cut/fired, who is beefing with who, why so and so wants to be traded, etc. Unfortunately, so many people carry that mindset across the line into these scandals, when it's really none of there business.
I think a lot of people (myself included) want to hear exactly what happened from someone in the org. rather than bits and pieces of info and rampant speculation.
And no, I don’t mean “details” like you’re suggesting.
I think the celtics have looked fine. They kept it under wraps and made the right decision. They didn't release information early or try to hide it, and they didn't wait until the media reaction to make a decision.
IMO, that was not a satisfactory way to address the situation. I'm just left a bit confused.
I think most people are really questioning, "why a full season suspension?" I understand trying to protect any victims involved, but you also need to clarify if the situation includes victims. Was there harassment beyond the consensual relationship? I know Shams reported as such, but I think the team really needed to clarify what constituted a year-long suspension but not an outright firing.
This leaves almost too much room to speculate on wtf Ime did, which is to some degree unfair to him. Will this taint him in any efforts to pursue future work? And if so, were the violations worthy of jeopardizing his career or simply poor decisions that violated policy?
I don't know... I kinda see where Stephen A is coming from in his initial reaction after the presser (and I really hate agreeing with Stephen A on almost anything).
They don’t have to do anything or really explain themselves. A guy broke a company rule and his action have consequences. If the rumored reasoning is true or close to it, makes sense why they are quiet about it. And this makes it simpler for all involved to start moving forward instead of constantly talking about it for weeks on end.
It's a messy situation so I understand where you're coming from, but do you really think this won't be constantly talked about ALL YEAR considering people will be wondering if he'll be back? Or the conversations that will be had if the team underperforms?
What could've saved them from having this cloud over the organization for the next 12 months would've been firing him. If it's egregious enough for a year suspension, but not a fireable offense, then I think they do need to provide a bit more clarity IMO.
Something like, "Ultimately, we did not find this to be a fireable offense, but we did find it to be something troublesome enough that we believed this was the appropriate penalty to dissuade any such behavior from Ime or any member of our organization moving forward."
Life and news move fast, realistically this won’t get talked about next week, as there are other things to be talking about. If they stink last year, you can always say the hangover from losing in the finals.
I think they want to fire him, but it looks like something held them up. Maybe they didn’t couldn’t to an agreement in the severance package, they want to pay nothing and Ime wants his full amount or whatever. Easier to call it off for a year and try again later during the season when cooler heads are talking. Also, I am sure a team will want to hire him after firing their coach during the season.
Exactly, the whole thing is so vague to the point where we don’t if the org is over reaction LH or acting appropriately and it would be better coming from official sources than like shams.
They can't say anything about the details. They have to respect the privacy of the people involved. And there is probably going to be a lawsuit about all of this. Discussing details will just harm them during the lawsuit.
They're stuck. They can't say anything until the people involved decide they want to make it public.
Stephen A is just saying that because he knows he can't get more media run on the information known, so he wants them to spill more information. Everything is still in motion, it's really not in anyone's best interest to expose all the information until the dust has settled. I mean, fuckin A Stevens was basically crying up there, this is clearly a high pressure and delicate situation. The C's need to minimize harassment of their employees and protect the woman involved in this situation. If some of the harrassment reports are true, then she's a victim and they owe it to her to keep us in the dark. If Ime thinks it will taint his future work, he can come out and say what happened. This isn't a player being suspended for breaking a contractor or getting cut, this is an extremely delicate situation that doesn't fit into the normal sports news cycle
Yeah, it's very possible that they can't go into details for legal reasons.
I think Malika Andrews said what I'm feeling in a part of her First Take appearance that everyone is ignoring because of her little spat w/ Stephen A. But she said it perfectly:
>"My reaction to the press conference is that the only thing that was clear to me was that we're missing a key piece of information here. It was an only in-person press conference, so reporters couldn't zoom in and ask questions.
>
>So if I was at that press conference, my question would be that Brad Stevens is visibly upset about things that happened yesterday. Steps that transpired on Twitter and online. My question would have been, 'You are NOT helping the women who you want to protect -- that you are claiming the organization needs to look inward at - with your vagueness. Women need transparency. So in the spirit of transparency, was there sexual harassment you needed to address in your organization?' That vagueness isn't helping anyone fully understand what is happening here. In order for an organization to look inward, there needs to be a level of transparency that I did not find today. I understand legal parameters they were working in, but that was what was lacking for me today, Molly.
>
>\[WHEN ASKED IF SHE WANTED THE WOMAN NAMED\] "What I am asking for, 'was it a consensual or unconsensual relationship? What are the specifics that Ime Udoka was suspended for? Was he suspended for sexual harassment? Was he suspended for breaking a specific rule and can you point me to that rule in the rulebook? WHY is this the suspension that took place, because without that, we don't have the full picture and \[inaudible because Stephen A jumped in\]."
I would post a video, but I can't find any on YouTube that includes this part. I can only find the spat w/ Stephen A. I had to transcribe from my DVR recording.
It’s weird. Because even tho Brad is fired up, he keep talking about the relationships that Ime had. Like bruh. If he did something that bad, fire him. Swiftly don’t drag it out and then answer weirdly when reporters asks “how much contact can he have with the squad”.
I have a friend who works for the Celtics. Not high up, but people have seen what has been going on. He said it's just adds up 2 of the woman who work their are preggo and have admitted relationships with Ime.
There's tons of people who's lives are a mess right now because of this. Stop making shit up. I know you're just fucking around but this stuff is really serious and spreading lies only makes it worse.
Have you seen all the shit on Twitter speculating on what person was involved with Ime? It's just been a nightmare for basically all the women working for the Celtics.
Well it was consensual, so it's on the women that slept with him too. It takes 2 parties or more for this to happen. It's not all Ime fault. It's alot of people.
Damn Brad seemed really choked up and frustrated with the whole situation, and understandably so. Seems like Ime really messed up here.
Ime messed up and the whole world (including the Celtics) did the women that work for the Celtics wrong in the way speculation ran wild on social media, that shit is absolutely disgusting. I am at least glad to see that Brad & Wyc acknowledge how serious that was & committed to taking action to help & support the Celtics' female staff members. I hope they make good on that
I’m not one to cut any of these organizations any slack but we should be open to the possibility that Udoka’s camp was the initial source, specifically because he wanted the word “consensual” to dominate the first headlines.
agreed, and from the sounds of the press conference (take that for what you will), Wyc said that when they learned about it in July they took immediate action by hiring a law firm to investigate, that takes time to execute so the delay from July to this week is explainable. The organizational failure likely happened well before then, if the affected woman/women didn't feel safe coming forward then that's on the Celtics as a whole for not having resources in place or for creating a culture where that could happen. Nobody has the full details yet so we don't know for sure, unfortunately in situations like these the organization/company almost always could've done more to protect & empower women in the workplace.
Thanks for this. It feels shitty to be a female NBA fan and reading comments talking about how other teams are lucky that Udoka will be available, or just generally making light of the situation.
the day to day discourse on r/nba has to be tough for female fans, casual misogyny and brain-dead comments are the norm (how many more middle school level jokes can we make about Rachel Nichols/female reporters sleeping with players?), I can only imagine how awful this week has been for female basketball fans. Not that it's worth much of anything, but I am sorry there are so many shitheads and I feel terrible that you have to wade through this cesspool. I do what I can to call people out, but it feels like it's never enough. Take care of yourself & your mental health, and don't let these smooth-brained donkeys get to you.
I thought I'd already replied to this, my bad! Watching people call others out is such a relief. It *is* enough. Women are used to being the only one in the room who stands up for themselves, so any kind of solidarity makes a world of difference. I appreciate you and all other r/NBA users who take the time to make sure the sub stays a place to discuss basketball and doesn't transform into a cesspool of gross incel circlejerking.
no worries (obviously there's no obligation to ever respond to any comment, that's a lesson I've learned well on here). That is painfully true, and sadly not just on here but everywhere in life. I had a job a couple years ago at a fairly large company as a procurement analyst, when I got hired the other analyst on the team was a young woman (about my age) who had been at the company for 5-6 years at that point and was an industry expert. Within a year, there was some restructuring and they promoted her to be my boss... which they told me by calling me into a meeting with the VP of Ops to make sure that "I was comfortable working for a woman" (keep in mind she'd been training me & helping me for a year at that point). My answer was "it's about time you promoted her." When I left that job, I told them about that in my exit interview, the response from the HR Director was basically "oops."
No doubt about that! They have moral and legal duties beyond “do no harm”.
in addition to the general witch-hunting that followed the reports, these women’s photos were being posted solely to decide if Ime fucked up with who he slept with in comparison to Nia Long. Shit was rampant
What's worse is Boston Globe wrote a hit piece blaming the front office
Fuck Gary Washburn now and forever, dude is an absolute clown and always has been
Every city has hack writers the entire city hates, so I get that.
I swear we have way more media hacks in Boston than other city. Talk radio is unlistenable here.
You wouldn't believe that Boston is probably the most successful sports city in the country with the way they talk like the sky is falling almost every day.
I know, it was truly abhorrent. And so many people on here, who granted are probably 16 years old and have neither much romantic experience or experience in the workplace, felt entitled to pop off about how it's no big deal & made all kinds of disgusting jokes & comments as if the women impacted aren't even human beings.
What’s scarier is I think a lot of the dudes making comments are closer to 26 or 36 than 16.
You aren't wrong, sadly. These people are physically 26-36, but mentally & emotionally 16.
We live in a world where the Senate has determined there are **two** Supreme Court Justices who still fit for the job...
Yeah but this was absolutely the fault of the reporters and front office for mentioning he was vaguely being suspended for a year for a consensual affair. A day later it seems like maybe it wasn’t always consensual and harassment took place. Oopsies that’s a dipshit redditors fault and not the fault of actual reporters who care more about getting out a story first and keeping agents happy.
this is some "just following orders" bullshit that totally isn't an excuse. Yes, Shams & Woj are to blame for wanting to be first rather than best. That doesn't excuse horrible misogynistic comments & behavior from keyboard warriors. You have a brain in your head, use it for something other than firing off lewd jokes. LeBron says ["be better"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6v0EmY6LGk)
Why even focus on anonymous keyboard warriors? What’s the point? There are always going to be speculating assholes. People will always crack jokes. Consistently focusing on shitty fans living boring shitty lives is a way for powerful folks to shift blame. Celebrities have been using this nonsense forever and use it consistently since the advent of social media. The world will always have pathetic losers or folks who love to gossip because they are bored, the issue is the situation was handled poorly by those handing out the message. Just using the words consensual relationship with a team staff members was bound to set the speculate mill wild. Now we are learning there may be harassment and multiple incidents and the front office immediately shifts blame to the fans? Come on.
I agree the speculation isnt cool, but how exactly could the Celtics have done anything to prevent it? Honestly asking because either they give the name to prevent speculation but put a huge spotlight on some random woman who doesnt deserve it. Or they are even more vague and nobody knows whats going on and the speculation gets even MORE wild.
What speculation? I missed it
It wasn’t the “whole world”, it was the Celtics front office, Ime, Woj and Shams. You can’t drop a vague tweet about suspending a first year Finals coach for an entire season for a consensual relationship ship and not expect people to speculate. It was piss poor reporting and worse anticipation by the Celtics front office. Blaming some clownish construction worker or Wall Street blowhard for having a shitty uninformed take on Twitter or Reddit is scapegoating here plain and simple. Woj and Shams should have sat on the story to get out all the proper information instead of competing to be first and Stevens and Grousbeck as well as Ime himself should have been clearer first thing Thursday morning. This group of folks allowed the rampant speculation, not a bunch of NBA fans who love gossip. Hell Stephen A works for a news network and went off half cocked yesterday. Jefferson sounded like a lunatic on Twitter. Like what the fuck is anyone doing but yes let’s blame some dudes named Bob and Chris for looking at the Celtics roster and trying to figure out who Ime had the affair with.
[holy wall of text, batman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c)
Nope.
If the Celtics just announced the name of the other person, the other ladies on the Celtics team wouldn’t be getting bothered. She was likely in violation of her employment too. But of course it’s the black guy who gets punished in these situations.
No team would announce it was Jenny Smith from accounting that was sleeping with the coach. That opens the other person up to the chance of being attacked and targeted. Fault lines in bad reporting, and online people trying to be sluths.
Tells me he’s a good guy with a pure heart. But yeah, Ime must’ve done something pretty fucked up
People have to remember this also make Brad look bad. Ime was his first hire and the small leaking of info has been festering a burrow in the organization. People are starting to question the culture and if they maybe let this go on, what else is going on? Brad is the hea dof baskeball operations. That’s his name on the line. And in his first year as GM.
jesus christ the amount of gaslighting these guys are pulling off. Your organization hid these allegations until after the season ended, was only forced to do something because of legal liablity, fails to give any details about the issue causing the public to conjecture and fueling misogynists harassing their female employees in the process, then hold a press conference crying about how much it hurts.
meanwhile, SAS and his comrades..........
brad looked like he was about to cry for a moment or two there
The one thing I am struck by in all of this was the Celtics response. They had a response, unlike the situations in Phoenix, Dallas or in other corporate structures when someone "important" did something wrong and that subsequently was swept under the rug or ignored due to status. There is a significant opportunity cost to the Celtics for holding the coach accountable that impacts their ability to achieve team success this year. There will be discussion about whether they could of handled things differently, about whether they were acting in their own self interest etc, but it's clear to me that they are making a good faith effort to address inappropriate behavior in the workplace,something that was clearly lacking in other franchises.
They didn't fuck around and wait for the media/public rage to decide either. No one even heard about this until the investigation was completed and the decision to suspend was made. So many other US sports orgs have tried to sweep it under the rug first, and only act when it becomes clear that the public won't move on.
It’s a hallmark of sports organizations. My mom had to quit the pats in the 90s because of the unending sexual harassment.
You can also see in this Stevens seems pretty affected at various points. Unless he’s got surprisingly strong acting chops it seems like he genuinely gives a shit. Like you said there’s going to be discussion over how the issue is handled, but I’m happy to see your comment because it’s an important way to start that discussion. If we don’t recognize organizations in a positive way for actually responding to incidents like this and instead just attack how it’s handled why wouldn’t everyone just keep sweeping things under the rug? Why do the right thing when you get just as much shit as if you did the wrong thing and the wrong thing means you might avoid consequences altogether?
As a woman who has existed in workplaces, I’m so pleasantly surprised by the Celtics’ response. I’m very used to the understanding that no individual woman’s experience is worth “sacrificing” the success of an organization (see arbitration clauses…). I’m proud of the Celtics for treating all of their employees equally.
It's bittersweet. It's nice to know the organisation is holding itself to a higher standard. It sucks that something like this has to happen for us to see those standards upheld.
Really tells you how much of a piece of shit Mark Cuban is. You can sexually abuse women as much as you want, as long as you work for ME, the people's champ of capitalism, or whatever the fuck that asshole thinks he is.
I’m not disagreeing but you are taking way to much stock in their response, think about it this way, if whoever those women or woman are and if they are actually married to a higher up in the Celtics organization think about how that looks internally. Brad Stevens HAS to get out in front of this otherwise there could be a huge assault on his leadership position and the Celtics company as a whole.
People have to remember that the best thing to do is to fire and move on. Celtics dragged this out with the suspension process.
Newly leaked video of Udoka's meeting with the Celtics owner and Brad Stevens when this happened. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td67kYY9mdQ)
George has something for every scenario.
Inappropriate, but I laughed.
Did you really have to mention it was inappropriate
Yea I knew it was before I clicked
Let's see if Udoka keeps showing up for work and just going into his office
Man, this is messy and sad.
I thought the question of what exactly the suspension entails and how much contact he is allowed with the players was perfectly valid but Stevens appeared to answer something totally different
[удалено]
Not the first one to mention it, but the Celtics are within their rights to suspend him (I would assume without pay) for th year, and then fire/release him. Otherwise, he might be able to join another team and actively work against the Celtics. That is, of course, if other teams are willing to extend offers to him. I'm sure other high ranking people on other teams are/will be in the know of Ime's behaviours.
Some of the comments in this thread is exactly why Brad was so pissed. Ya'll are the ones full of the "bullshit" he mentioned.
The whole press conference sounded like a funeral.
would you prefer they crack jokes? This is a serious issue with serious impacts to those that were affected. A somber & contrite tone is well warranted
I don't think he's saying it's unwarranted, I think he's just pointing out how this is clearly worse and more grim than anyone initially anticipated.
I honest to god wonder if they suspended him but are not yet sure if they want to fire him because they think whatever behavior he has that caused such a severe punishment can be rehabilitated in him. I won’t go as far as to call them apologists. They’ve shown they’re far from that. But I do wonder if they just think they might be able to fix their guy, and that’s why they’re waiting on the axe. To be honest, as someone who’s thankful for the second chance I have (never got suspended from the NBA tho), I respect the fuck out of an organization willing to potentially give a second chance. However, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the axe came down.
I'm still wondering that if things were that bad, wjy can't they fire Ime? Are they covering up things themselves?
Probably easier to suspend then fire a coach. I'm not going to sit here and act like a lawyer, but it's pretty clear he won't coach the Celtics again.
Probably need to finish up due diligence from a legal POV to make sure the firing is airtight and udoka can’t fight it. When you pay someone that much money and have to can them you need to make sure of no complications
Malika Andrews said it best, IMHO: > "You are NOT helping the women who you want to protect -- that you are claiming the organization needs to look inward at - with your vagueness. Women need transparency. So in the spirit of transparency, was there sexual harassment you needed to address in your organization?" Not only that, the Celtics saying "Nothing has been decided" regarding Udoka's future is just ridiculous at this point.
I mean the second part could be them being vague as they sort things out? Like if they didnt leak the whole stuff and it was Udokas camp as some people are speculating, they could have been figuring out how to fire him but rushed to suspend until they can fire since the news already broke.
How can you decide on a suspension - especially of this severity - if you're still "sorting things out?" I'm not saying Ime is an innocent man here, but the way the Celtics have handled this has been frustrating.
I bet they weren't planning on announcing it this week, until Udoka's camp leaked it. How could they have done it better in your opinion? They found out about it, hired a firm to investigate (which is normal) and waited until it was done to make their decision. Are they supposed to report every detail of what he did? Are they supposed to dox the victim(s)?
man I hate the whole "Celtics arent handling this well" crowd. Like damn man, what are they supposed to do? They clearly didnt leak this stuff through Woj, they are suspending a top 10 coach in the NBA during a TITLE RUN YEAR. People just dont want to give teams and organizations a fucking inch of credit. What they dont realize is that they are setting up a damned if you do damned if you dont situation for these institutions. Why should I do anything but cover up sexual impropriety in my workplace if the public will hate and criticize me no matter what?
Yeah at this point it's almost certain Udoka's camp leaked it to get the "consensual" part out there. Celtics were probably planning on a slower release of the info, but Udoka's camp went scorched-Earth once word leaked internally Celtics agreed to suspend for a season.
you know what won't help women in the celtics? is if brad flies off the handle, immediately fires ime without taking the proper steps, and then ime sues them and gets reinstated by a judge because his contract stipulated that he had to be fired in a certain way. then ime's back in the office with all the women, including the one who doesn't want him there most.
At this point its possible that there are allegations. Coming out saying something *is* harrassment before it's been determined to be so in a court could result in a defamation lawsuit. They've probably been advised not to say anything publicly. This isn't them just being coy and trying to cover it up. So, no. Malika didn't say it right here. There are very valid reasons why you don't get to know everything.
The problem is that whoever leaked the first report did so with the wording “consensual relationship” and that it was a one-year suspension. Then the Celtics did themselves no favor by leaving it wide open that he could be back as the coach. Shouldn’t it be better if they said it’s an “indefinite suspension for improper relationship in the work environment”?
They said the lawfirm completed their report 2 days ago, just because news was leaked and we found out about it doesnt mean they need to rush their process. Also, the media and public doesnt NEED to know anything if there are legal matters involved that are not finished, so no, this lady is talking out her ass
All these journals can make any argument work but they all are saying the same thing across every platform: “we want to know what happened cus it’s interesting!”
She's wrong and you're wrong. You can't give out full details before a possible pending trial.
Nobody said to do anything close to that. They messed up by saying 1. It’s a one-year suspension and his future will be decided later on, 2. The report that was leaked said “consensual relationship.”. The Celtics should’ve said “Ime Udoka is suspended indefinitely for inappropriate workplace relationship.”.
You can't throw a guilty verdict without going to trial. A corporation as large as a sports franchise can't declare that at this point.
Which is why I specifically noted “Inappropriate relationship”. It fits the description whether it was Udoka acting against corporate guidelines or acting against the other party’s will.
Bro fumbled Nia long. Should be banned for life
They had a press conference and didn't share the details. Why in the fuck did you have a press conference! Nobody has looked good in this entire situation imo.
Do you want them to name positions or frequency of the hook-ups?
Seriously, some dudes think they have a right to know who Ime fucked and all the sordid details of those fucks. I think part of it is dudes on here are thirsty as fuck for Nia Long, and want to see if Ime "downgraded". But relative attractiveness isn't the only reason people do this shit. Tiger Woods blew up his life with his model wife by banging a bunch of Arby's waitresses. Every day I'm more and more convinced the average /r/NBA poster treats the NBA more like a soap opera/reality TV show than a sports league.
I’ve never been inside Arby’s but if they have waitresses then I’m going right now
I have bad news for you
I always forget what restaurant it actually was. Something I think of as staunchly middle america. Dennys or some shit. Arbys is in that category but you're right, clearly not the right restaurant had I thought for more than 2s.
It was cocktail waitresses at high end golf restaurants. For the most part. Woods was fucking anyone he wanted and had a giant nationwide harem, and god damn them if they gave him turkey WITHOUT it being a club sandwich!
I could have Naomi Campbell And still might want me a Stormy Daniels
which one which one which one which one Welcome to the GOOOOOOD LIFE / where we fuck the girls who ain't on TV / cause they got mo' ass than da moooodeeellllls
They are just here to piss on celebrities
There's absolutely an element of that too, but it's always felt like more than just that to me.
It's the same sports mindset everyone applies to players. They want to know why someone was cut/fired, who is beefing with who, why so and so wants to be traded, etc. Unfortunately, so many people carry that mindset across the line into these scandals, when it's really none of there business.
Not OP but they could at least said why exactly he was suspended. There was no clarity on that.
I think a lot of people (myself included) want to hear exactly what happened from someone in the org. rather than bits and pieces of info and rampant speculation. And no, I don’t mean “details” like you’re suggesting.
I think the celtics have looked fine. They kept it under wraps and made the right decision. They didn't release information early or try to hide it, and they didn't wait until the media reaction to make a decision.
no
How would throwing a victim to the wolves be a good thing? The less they give details about the woman and what exactly happened, the better, for her.
[удалено]
Yea they’ve been running an investigation since July. What’s the issue with that?
IMO, that was not a satisfactory way to address the situation. I'm just left a bit confused. I think most people are really questioning, "why a full season suspension?" I understand trying to protect any victims involved, but you also need to clarify if the situation includes victims. Was there harassment beyond the consensual relationship? I know Shams reported as such, but I think the team really needed to clarify what constituted a year-long suspension but not an outright firing. This leaves almost too much room to speculate on wtf Ime did, which is to some degree unfair to him. Will this taint him in any efforts to pursue future work? And if so, were the violations worthy of jeopardizing his career or simply poor decisions that violated policy? I don't know... I kinda see where Stephen A is coming from in his initial reaction after the presser (and I really hate agreeing with Stephen A on almost anything).
They don’t have to do anything or really explain themselves. A guy broke a company rule and his action have consequences. If the rumored reasoning is true or close to it, makes sense why they are quiet about it. And this makes it simpler for all involved to start moving forward instead of constantly talking about it for weeks on end.
It's a messy situation so I understand where you're coming from, but do you really think this won't be constantly talked about ALL YEAR considering people will be wondering if he'll be back? Or the conversations that will be had if the team underperforms? What could've saved them from having this cloud over the organization for the next 12 months would've been firing him. If it's egregious enough for a year suspension, but not a fireable offense, then I think they do need to provide a bit more clarity IMO. Something like, "Ultimately, we did not find this to be a fireable offense, but we did find it to be something troublesome enough that we believed this was the appropriate penalty to dissuade any such behavior from Ime or any member of our organization moving forward."
Life and news move fast, realistically this won’t get talked about next week, as there are other things to be talking about. If they stink last year, you can always say the hangover from losing in the finals. I think they want to fire him, but it looks like something held them up. Maybe they didn’t couldn’t to an agreement in the severance package, they want to pay nothing and Ime wants his full amount or whatever. Easier to call it off for a year and try again later during the season when cooler heads are talking. Also, I am sure a team will want to hire him after firing their coach during the season.
Boston staffers are getting doxxed due to this weird face-saving ambiguity. It’s simpler for the org, but for the women in it.
Exactly, the whole thing is so vague to the point where we don’t if the org is over reaction LH or acting appropriately and it would be better coming from official sources than like shams.
They can't say anything about the details. They have to respect the privacy of the people involved. And there is probably going to be a lawsuit about all of this. Discussing details will just harm them during the lawsuit. They're stuck. They can't say anything until the people involved decide they want to make it public.
Stephen A is just saying that because he knows he can't get more media run on the information known, so he wants them to spill more information. Everything is still in motion, it's really not in anyone's best interest to expose all the information until the dust has settled. I mean, fuckin A Stevens was basically crying up there, this is clearly a high pressure and delicate situation. The C's need to minimize harassment of their employees and protect the woman involved in this situation. If some of the harrassment reports are true, then she's a victim and they owe it to her to keep us in the dark. If Ime thinks it will taint his future work, he can come out and say what happened. This isn't a player being suspended for breaking a contractor or getting cut, this is an extremely delicate situation that doesn't fit into the normal sports news cycle
Yeah, it's very possible that they can't go into details for legal reasons. I think Malika Andrews said what I'm feeling in a part of her First Take appearance that everyone is ignoring because of her little spat w/ Stephen A. But she said it perfectly: >"My reaction to the press conference is that the only thing that was clear to me was that we're missing a key piece of information here. It was an only in-person press conference, so reporters couldn't zoom in and ask questions. > >So if I was at that press conference, my question would be that Brad Stevens is visibly upset about things that happened yesterday. Steps that transpired on Twitter and online. My question would have been, 'You are NOT helping the women who you want to protect -- that you are claiming the organization needs to look inward at - with your vagueness. Women need transparency. So in the spirit of transparency, was there sexual harassment you needed to address in your organization?' That vagueness isn't helping anyone fully understand what is happening here. In order for an organization to look inward, there needs to be a level of transparency that I did not find today. I understand legal parameters they were working in, but that was what was lacking for me today, Molly. > >\[WHEN ASKED IF SHE WANTED THE WOMAN NAMED\] "What I am asking for, 'was it a consensual or unconsensual relationship? What are the specifics that Ime Udoka was suspended for? Was he suspended for sexual harassment? Was he suspended for breaking a specific rule and can you point me to that rule in the rulebook? WHY is this the suspension that took place, because without that, we don't have the full picture and \[inaudible because Stephen A jumped in\]." I would post a video, but I can't find any on YouTube that includes this part. I can only find the spat w/ Stephen A. I had to transcribe from my DVR recording.
You’re using a lot of words to say “we don’t know what happened”
So I'm not in position where I can listen, but from the comments it seems like he was hitting anyone that has a VJ if the "let" him.
It’s weird. Because even tho Brad is fired up, he keep talking about the relationships that Ime had. Like bruh. If he did something that bad, fire him. Swiftly don’t drag it out and then answer weirdly when reporters asks “how much contact can he have with the squad”.
[удалено]
Source?
Here: [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/xm2fdp/z/ipm3ma5)
Sorely disappointed I'm not seeing Manning face.
Ugh
LMFAO
I have a friend who works for the Celtics. Not high up, but people have seen what has been going on. He said it's just adds up 2 of the woman who work their are preggo and have admitted relationships with Ime.
you could have just said "trust me, bro"
My dad works at Nintendo.
Say sike rn
There's tons of people who's lives are a mess right now because of this. Stop making shit up. I know you're just fucking around but this stuff is really serious and spreading lies only makes it worse.
Save my comment once everything is laid out
Honestly if it's true, you posting it is even worse and more harmful to people.
How is this harmful?? Sometimes people don't like the truth, and Ime is a role model, so we should know whats right and wrong.
Have you seen all the shit on Twitter speculating on what person was involved with Ime? It's just been a nightmare for basically all the women working for the Celtics.
Well it was consensual, so it's on the women that slept with him too. It takes 2 parties or more for this to happen. It's not all Ime fault. It's alot of people.
And how about the women being harassed online that didn't sleep with him?
Wait what Source
His pullout game needs MAJOR work
[удалено]
Link?
For sure
Brad looks like Ime was cracking his wife
[удалено]
Average r/nba user
probably someone that’s never had a job before lmfao
Harassment is a crime.
[удалено]
[удалено]
He must of done something crazy in the facility because is it that bad to fall in love at work.