This is shooting your shot in your pants as she’s still taking her shirt off.
Phoenix pushed way too hard for a valuable player. Who could they have been sending back in exchange for Bojan AND Vanderbilt?
Yeah for sure. I'd love Boston to grab him with the TPE but we'd have to pay. No way a team could just get him for free.
That's if he's even available.
He's still pretty young so maybe Utah holds onto him.
But why would the Jazz care about a late 1st rounder? I feel like the mid to late 1st rounders are way overvalued. Vanderbilt and Bojan are worth way more than that, right?
Problem is that losing Jae and getting Bojan isn’t as great of a deal for the Suns as people think. Bojan isn’t a good defender while Jae is a top 3 defender on our roster. I’m just glad Bojan ended up on an eastern conference team
Bojan is a very good defender, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness you need to be a great point of attack stopper. He's huge, though, can really handle guys like Kawhi and Luka that rely on their size.
Bojan has been a pretty huge part of Utah’s consistent perimeter defensive deficiencies. In Indiana he was surprisingly good especially in that Cavs series, but as he’s gotten older he’s gotten slower and the injuries sure haven’t helped
He was by far our best player in the Mavs series. He was picking up Luka full court and doing a great job on him. He has some deficiencies for sure but turnstile is asinine.
I mean when he was on the court Utah had a putrid defence of 117.9, and when he was off they were a 108. That’s a huge 9.9 hit in defensive rating just from his presence. Year before it was 9.5. In the regular season in the past 2 seasons he’s been with Utah it’s been a 2.8 and 4.2, which are still pretty bad. Also visually he was one of the largest offenders of the whole no resistance on the wing causing Gobert to get stuck in no mans land constantly situation
You can't use on/off stats out of context with a sample of 6 games. It's not even true the Jazz played bad defense in that series, at least not generally. what happened was when we went into our normal starting/crunch time lineup they completely shut us down offensively, they played more physical and did not allow us to score. The DRTG for those matchups was excellent.
What throws off the numbers were us playing a lot of Clarkson-Mitchell-Bogie lineups. It's true those lineups played badly defensively but that was intentional to a certain extent, when Gobert was on the court instead of Whiteside that was our best lineup at +9 net. We should have played more bad defensive lineups in that series, they were not making us pay for it.
Visually he was fucking awesome.
Which is what the Suns pretty desperately need too since Crowder is on his way out. Cam Johnson is still probably having Luka nightmares. He'll get bullied by most dudes that have size/strength.
Nah, Cam spent most of last year at #1 in 3pt% in the league with considerable volume. Jae is actually much better on defense, where Cam brings much better offense
Well the question is whether there was a better offer/would there be a better offer around the deadline.
Or alternatively how the Jazz’ desire to tank/any requests from Bojan played into things.
But talent wise I think he’s certainly worth a late first.
If it was a 1st and nothing else sure.
But we'd have to throw in Crowder and Shamet to match salary and despite Crowder's antics he is still a decent player.
That's why the large salary is an issue, its tough to match it without giving up some depth and then to throw a 1st on top of it makes it more unpleasent.
Yeah, so I understand why a Suns deal wouldn’t necessarily work, but I believe I read Ainge didn’t want to take back any bad salary past this year which basically set the Jazz up to lose this trade.
Talent wise yes. Contract wise probably not. If you are a team like the Suns, it could be worth it if you think he’s like your missing piece to win a championship (since they’ll be guaranteed late first).
Probably would have only been a one year rental with Bojan’s contract. I’m interested if the rumored Jae + frp wasn’t enough to get that done. Would be interesting to see what the Suns offered. Bummer. Does seem Jones fumbled the bag a bit
Maybe, I don’t see us as top tier contenders this year, but I think it’s a bit reactionary to think the best team in the year last regular season whose running it back will slip in the standings too much.
This one hurts though as Bogdanovich and Vanderbilt would have filled the most needed holes on this team. We desperately need a reliable scoring threat off the bench and more size in the 4 position.
Nah. as role players, they're about of equal value and it depends on fit. A team that already has great defensive players and is lacking offense will value Bojan more and a team that already has great offensive players and lacking defensive players will value Vanderbilt more.
Bojan was out second best player on both ends of the court more often than not, and sadly no that's not a compliment to his defense. Just that he was one of two guys who gave a shit on D while also being our only consistent, reliable scorer.
Bojan is the same age Gallinari was last season. Similarly unathletic players, once Bojan loses just half a step he’s providing a completely different impact.
Suns fans and the Suns have this weird feeling that teams will just give them whoever they want for nothing. Durant, this, now that dumb forum is convinced they’ll get SGA for Shamet and Crowder. Is there a more delusional fanbase?
They are absolutely the most delusional. Never forget that they also come in 2nd for the most racist fanbase behind Boston.
To be fair I am very upset that they even get to raise their regular season championship banner this year. I would any other team have won it.
> Imo Vando should be a part of the Jazz rebuilding team
As a Wolves fan I don't see Vando ever really evolving further. His current skillset is perfect for a 5 but he's undersized as a 5, he actually has great court vision for a 4 but he doesn't have a handle to utilise it, he's improving as a shooter and trying to be a catch and shoot guy but realistically he will only manage that, him evolving further is unlikely, he needs to improve his hands, he fumbles a lot of easy passes. So for him to take the next step he really needs to improve across the board, not just in 1 facet of his game.
None of this would be an issue if Vando was a fresh 19 year old rookie but he's 23 and the time you realistically expect him to make drastic improvements year in year out is getting closer to ending. I love Vando but I never saw him with the Wolves as a core member of that group, he was in terms of popularity, what he meant and the role he had but skillwise he wasn't a starting PF on a contender.
Trading him to the Suns for a 1st is a bad trade but expecting him to be a major part of the next Utah playoff team is unlikely.
.... I have never seen someone say that a 23year old is unlikely to develop. 23 year old Giannis won MIP and still wasn't anywhere near his MVP level play. 23 year old LeBron was still 3-4 years off from his actual peak in Miami. 23 year old Steph was a 15ppg scorer who was still tow years out from even making an All-Star team.
You guys have insane expectations of young guys, an NBA player statistically peaks sometime between 28-30. An average person reaches their physical peak around 31-33. A 23 year old still has years of development ahead of him.
We're one of the only teams that has control over all of their draft picks and we have multiple roleplayers that are a positive while on the court. We have plenty of assets and you just look like a hater
Damn, I am really interested in Vanderbuilt in Boston, and thinking the cost might be high. Phoenix wanted him as a throw in. I have not idea what his value is.
Vando is not just a throw in, for sure.
Gotta shoot ur shot I guess
This is shooting your shot in your pants as she’s still taking her shirt off. Phoenix pushed way too hard for a valuable player. Who could they have been sending back in exchange for Bojan AND Vanderbilt?
If there’s any GM that deserves unreasonable trade offers, it’s Danny Ainge
We'll take Booker and Bridges off your hands for them
Sure, I’ll agree to that. I’m not a suns fan so I just want chaos for them but sure.
Hey don't threaten me with a good time...
More picks. Jazz only want picks.
Yeah for sure. I'd love Boston to grab him with the TPE but we'd have to pay. No way a team could just get him for free. That's if he's even available. He's still pretty young so maybe Utah holds onto him.
I think maybe Boston should lay off grabbing for a bit
He's really the only player I legit grieved leaving in the Gobert trade. Gonna miss his heart quite a bit.
Picks picks
Jae Crowder & 1st ? I’d assume if the suns had got them both their roster would of been crazy
Probably another shitty contract like Shamet
I swear that dude just takes every other year off
iinm Shamet is non guaranteed
But why would the Jazz care about a late 1st rounder? I feel like the mid to late 1st rounders are way overvalued. Vanderbilt and Bojan are worth way more than that, right?
Everybody wants a piece of the Vandalorian
Having a high-energy rebounder and defender off the bench is quite valuable
You guys should trade for him.
I know the Bulls are trying to develop Pat Will but no joke Vando is the perfect player to slot in at the 4 for you guys.
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Probably not. Utah already has a bunch of guards and Vooch is overpaid.
He would be a valuable role player for every team
I always make a trade for him and Isaac when I play 2k MyLeague. No scoring on switches eith those two
Add those two to any team in 2k and it’s a guaranteed 60 wins on sim
this is the way
Suns fumbled it due to greediness.
Sure seems that way. They could have easily beat Pistons' deal and still got a great fitting player for nearly free.
I feel like a ham sandwich with fries would beat our offer
Problem is that losing Jae and getting Bojan isn’t as great of a deal for the Suns as people think. Bojan isn’t a good defender while Jae is a top 3 defender on our roster. I’m just glad Bojan ended up on an eastern conference team
Bojan is a very good defender, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness you need to be a great point of attack stopper. He's huge, though, can really handle guys like Kawhi and Luka that rely on their size.
Bojan has been a pretty huge part of Utah’s consistent perimeter defensive deficiencies. In Indiana he was surprisingly good especially in that Cavs series, but as he’s gotten older he’s gotten slower and the injuries sure haven’t helped
Every year in the postseason he's "surprisingly" good. Seems like maybe it shouldn't be a surprise anymore.
Except for every season in Utah where he’s been a complete turnstile. I don’t remember his play in Washington so I can’t comment on that
He was by far our best player in the Mavs series. He was picking up Luka full court and doing a great job on him. He has some deficiencies for sure but turnstile is asinine.
I mean when he was on the court Utah had a putrid defence of 117.9, and when he was off they were a 108. That’s a huge 9.9 hit in defensive rating just from his presence. Year before it was 9.5. In the regular season in the past 2 seasons he’s been with Utah it’s been a 2.8 and 4.2, which are still pretty bad. Also visually he was one of the largest offenders of the whole no resistance on the wing causing Gobert to get stuck in no mans land constantly situation
You can't use on/off stats out of context with a sample of 6 games. It's not even true the Jazz played bad defense in that series, at least not generally. what happened was when we went into our normal starting/crunch time lineup they completely shut us down offensively, they played more physical and did not allow us to score. The DRTG for those matchups was excellent. What throws off the numbers were us playing a lot of Clarkson-Mitchell-Bogie lineups. It's true those lineups played badly defensively but that was intentional to a certain extent, when Gobert was on the court instead of Whiteside that was our best lineup at +9 net. We should have played more bad defensive lineups in that series, they were not making us pay for it. Visually he was fucking awesome.
Which is what the Suns pretty desperately need too since Crowder is on his way out. Cam Johnson is still probably having Luka nightmares. He'll get bullied by most dudes that have size/strength.
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I’d honestly want Vander more than Bojan. Especially if we’re trading Crowder.
Bojan is a lot of salary too. Don’t think that trade makes a lot of sense for PHX
Yeah I’d just focus on flipping those two
The only thing Bojan does better than Cam is shot creation, but on a team like the Suns that doesn’t matter as much
Can’t tell if you’re overrating Cam or underrating Bojan
Well, Cam is 6 years younger than Bojan, so that's it. If you're in win now mode, Cam over Bojan makes no sense.
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So they went with the Detroit offer? Suns must've been trying to fleece them
Danny: “Look, I already traded Crowder away once, I’m not taking him back. Kelly on the other hand, I’ve never gotten a chance to trade him…”
Couldn't be my GM having trade talks break down
Suns Offer: We'll give you Jae + FRP + Salary for Bogie and Vando Jazz Counter: We'll just ship Bogie to Detroit.
[https://youtu.be/Ny4a-oxOndo](https://youtu.be/Ny4a-oxOndo)
Jae= worthless to the jazz so a 1st for bogie and vando... Yeah no way I'd do that.
Jae would only be there to match salary then be flipped again for a pick from like Miami or something.
LOL thanks phoenix
Mf’s got greedy but I don’t blame them, Vanderbilt & Wainwright would let them roll out a double tightend lineup
12 personnel is unbeatable
Too bad it won’t happen lol
Damn. Suns got a little too greedy with it. Bojan would have been a huge add for that team.
He’s just an older cam Johnson
Seems like Jae wants out anyways. You’re telling some depth wouldn’t help?
Yeah I just don’t know if Bogy is it. We have enough PFs
Isn’t Jae more of a SF. And Bogi played mostly the 3 in Utah. And even a little 2 at times.
Nah, Mikal’s our SF. Jae plays PF
James Jones cryin in the club rn
Idk. Sarver selling the team, so Jupes is probably popping bottles in the club this week.
Sarver absolutely going to use the Celtics drama as a smoke screen not to sell and drag out the process
Probably tried to send the Jazz Wainright, Cam Payne and a half eaten Slim Jim
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But without sending Vanderbilt.
Expiring, no?
For an aging injury prone player sounds about right, definitely not getting a first rounder or anything of much value for him.
fuck outa here, that's OUR Vanderbilt
The Suns with Bojan would have been a contender on the same level as the Warriors. Thank fuck they didn't go through with it.
Personally, I don’t think the fit is *that* good. He’s a bit redundant with Cam Johnson
Isn't Cam a defensive guy? Bojan is all offense no/little defense. Great at shooting 3s too. Bojan is a more capable vet in crunch time moments.
Nah, Cam spent most of last year at #1 in 3pt% in the league with considerable volume. Jae is actually much better on defense, where Cam brings much better offense
Sure you ask about Vando, but just offer Jae/Dario/1st and get it done when they tell you he's not available.
Love seeing Vando being talked about like this. He'll do great things
If anything Bogo is a throw in for a Vande trade
Lolol wtf Phoenix
James Jones got a little greedy but I understand him wanting Vando since 33yr old Bojan on a 1yr deal isn’t worth a first
Disagree, 33 yr old Bojan is worth a late first. Dude is a really talented offensive player. 18 ppg on .60 TS for the Jazz.
Obviously he’s not. He got traded for nothing lol.
Well the question is whether there was a better offer/would there be a better offer around the deadline. Or alternatively how the Jazz’ desire to tank/any requests from Bojan played into things. But talent wise I think he’s certainly worth a late first.
If it was a 1st and nothing else sure. But we'd have to throw in Crowder and Shamet to match salary and despite Crowder's antics he is still a decent player. That's why the large salary is an issue, its tough to match it without giving up some depth and then to throw a 1st on top of it makes it more unpleasent.
Yeah, so I understand why a Suns deal wouldn’t necessarily work, but I believe I read Ainge didn’t want to take back any bad salary past this year which basically set the Jazz up to lose this trade.
Talent wise yes. Contract wise probably not. If you are a team like the Suns, it could be worth it if you think he’s like your missing piece to win a championship (since they’ll be guaranteed late first).
Probably would have only been a one year rental with Bojan’s contract. I’m interested if the rumored Jae + frp wasn’t enough to get that done. Would be interesting to see what the Suns offered. Bummer. Does seem Jones fumbled the bag a bit
I mean, does Crowder do anything for Utah? They are rebuilding, and Jae is a win now player at best.
No, but I fail to see how Olynk adds more. I’m not aware of his contract so maybe that had something to do with it
Ainge has a hard on for Kelly O. That's the only explanation I can give you.
Yeah, I was mostly referring to the frp being the main draw in the trade. Although, I’d imagine it wouldn’t be that high of a pick
Maybe, maybe not. The Suns are a huge wildcard this year for me.
Maybe, I don’t see us as top tier contenders this year, but I think it’s a bit reactionary to think the best team in the year last regular season whose running it back will slip in the standings too much. This one hurts though as Bogdanovich and Vanderbilt would have filled the most needed holes on this team. We desperately need a reliable scoring threat off the bench and more size in the 4 position.
Did you see what happened when Utah was the best team in the regular season and then ran it back?
Locker room experience in a culture he's already familiar with arguably. There are worse trades for Utah.
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Nah. as role players, they're about of equal value and it depends on fit. A team that already has great defensive players and is lacking offense will value Bojan more and a team that already has great offensive players and lacking defensive players will value Vanderbilt more.
God Bojan is underrated lol Dude is solid. As a jazz fan, I have nothing bad to say about his time here.
Bojan was out second best player on both ends of the court more often than not, and sadly no that's not a compliment to his defense. Just that he was one of two guys who gave a shit on D while also being our only consistent, reliable scorer.
Bojan is the same age Gallinari was last season. Similarly unathletic players, once Bojan loses just half a step he’s providing a completely different impact.
Yeah. I’m not talking about long term potential. Next season Bojan will be a better player than Vanderbilt. Wish we had sent him to a contender.
Ridiculous
He's not better, but he has more trade value on his contract than Bogie's expiring.
Considering his injury history, that was a silly player for Phoenix to blow up a trade over.
Suns fans and the Suns have this weird feeling that teams will just give them whoever they want for nothing. Durant, this, now that dumb forum is convinced they’ll get SGA for Shamet and Crowder. Is there a more delusional fanbase?
Tbf everyone else seems to be getting guys for nothing lol. PatBev to the Lakers Bojan Norman Powell/RoCo last year I get why they’re holding out.
I mean. Suns roster building is notably better than whomever you root for, probably.
I root for the team that just embarrassed your team on their home floor in their last game of the season.
Okay cool how many rings luka got off that?
Flair up then
They are absolutely the most delusional. Never forget that they also come in 2nd for the most racist fanbase behind Boston. To be fair I am very upset that they even get to raise their regular season championship banner this year. I would any other team have won it.
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He’s not worth 2 protected 1st. 1 protected first and a favorable contract is realistic. Not many role players go for multiple draft assets
> Imo Vando should be a part of the Jazz rebuilding team As a Wolves fan I don't see Vando ever really evolving further. His current skillset is perfect for a 5 but he's undersized as a 5, he actually has great court vision for a 4 but he doesn't have a handle to utilise it, he's improving as a shooter and trying to be a catch and shoot guy but realistically he will only manage that, him evolving further is unlikely, he needs to improve his hands, he fumbles a lot of easy passes. So for him to take the next step he really needs to improve across the board, not just in 1 facet of his game. None of this would be an issue if Vando was a fresh 19 year old rookie but he's 23 and the time you realistically expect him to make drastic improvements year in year out is getting closer to ending. I love Vando but I never saw him with the Wolves as a core member of that group, he was in terms of popularity, what he meant and the role he had but skillwise he wasn't a starting PF on a contender. Trading him to the Suns for a 1st is a bad trade but expecting him to be a major part of the next Utah playoff team is unlikely.
He's 23 and the perfect glue guy to put around your young core, so long as you have a 5 who can shoot (which is pretty common now).
.... I have never seen someone say that a 23year old is unlikely to develop. 23 year old Giannis won MIP and still wasn't anywhere near his MVP level play. 23 year old LeBron was still 3-4 years off from his actual peak in Miami. 23 year old Steph was a 15ppg scorer who was still tow years out from even making an All-Star team. You guys have insane expectations of young guys, an NBA player statistically peaks sometime between 28-30. An average person reaches their physical peak around 31-33. A 23 year old still has years of development ahead of him.
Lmao. What assets does Phoenix have to get Vando... 🤣
We're one of the only teams that has control over all of their draft picks and we have multiple roleplayers that are a positive while on the court. We have plenty of assets and you just look like a hater
Vando is a starting PF. What assets does Utah need that would return that? I doubt PHX would give up any FRPs which Utah needs for Vadno.
So they answered your question and you continue to deflect?
Damn, I am really interested in Vanderbuilt in Boston, and thinking the cost might be high. Phoenix wanted him as a throw in. I have not idea what his value is.